GR Research speaker cables.

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jrocks29ms@gmail.com

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GR Research speaker cables.
« on: 18 Apr 2022, 01:51 am »
Wondering if the 24 braid cables from GR exhibit a directionality property. You see a lot of this directionality in high end cables from many companies like AQ, MIT, etc. As I understand it it has to do with the way the copper is drawn and it’s lay. Can this be seen in something like a loop easily tell which way is best for directionally? If you get it wrong, or don’t bother to check for this, is something important to their best performance being overlooked?

g3rain1

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #1 on: 18 Apr 2022, 02:47 am »
No. Audio signals are AC, they're moving in both directions already.  I think directionality only matters for shielded cable where the shield is grounded at one end only.


Digi-G

Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #2 on: 18 Apr 2022, 06:25 pm »
Audio signals are A/C?  Really?  I've never heard that before.   :popcorn:

newzooreview

Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #3 on: 18 Apr 2022, 06:59 pm »
Audio signals are A/C?  Really?  I've never heard that before.   :popcorn:

Audio signals are very reasonably termed AC. https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-analogue-audio-signal-dc-or-ac/474740/4

One comment from the linked discussion:

"DC is generally understood to be constant, and AC in most uses is generally understood to be a constant sine wave. Audio signals really aren’t either. Audio signals are varying sine waves in the frequency range of 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. A constant AC signal (meaning of constant frequency) within that range would be called an audio frequency AC signal though. There’s enough weaseling within the common use of the terms that you could easily get away with calling audio signals AC. You just have to be careful of the context. “AC” to many folks means 120 volts AC 60 Hz. It’s more common to just refer to audio signals as “audio” instead of trying to call them AC or DC.

There’s a very important fundamental concept in signals that says any complex waveform can be broken down into a series of sine waves. Your ears hear in the frequency domain, so what you are really hearing is the frequencies of these individual sine waves. The cells in your ears (called hair cells) act like itty bitty bandpass filters, each focusing on a small range of sine waves. So, “sound” is really sine waves. You can’t hear DC. You can only hear sine waves. If you ignore the common usage of the terms, sine waves are by definition alternating, so yes, sound is technically AC. Like I said above, though, calling audio signals “AC” might confuse some people in some contexts."

EdwardT

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #4 on: 18 Apr 2022, 07:19 pm »
Audio signals are in fact alternating current, there's just no denying the physics, it’s just that the frequencies vary unlike the constant frequency of your household electrical service which is 60hZ (more or less). Theoretically if you had a speaker voice coil good for 1800 watts at 120 volts you could plug it straight into the wall and create a monumental 60 cycle tone. Also, you can hear DC, just take a 9v battery and touch it to the terminals of any woofer and you'll hear a pop; it’s just that the speaker only moves one direction since the current doesn’t alternate. I've been using that trick to test manufacturers polarity for over 40 years…

jrocks29ms@gmail.com

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #5 on: 18 Apr 2022, 07:36 pm »
Just for reference the GR research speaker cable is a kit so you are building it yourself. Therefore there are no instructions on direction. I’ve seen speaker cables that have directionality runs that do not have grounds as far as I know.
Built them, they sound great, just wondering if a property was overlooked in their construction.

AJinFLA

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #6 on: 18 Apr 2022, 07:57 pm »
Men are never supposed to ask for directions

jrocks29ms@gmail.com

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #7 on: 19 Apr 2022, 12:13 am »
Getting into the land of the bizarre, and a topic that would drive non cable believers mad. I just moved my cables around a little; elevating them from resting on flat surfaces and separating cables that were overlapping with spacers. It seems like all the cable burn in that saw the soundstage improve and an improvement in dynamic range has reduced. Are cables that frickin sensitive that just moving them around or bending them starts over the break in process? Perhaps I should be happy my system is now so resolving I can hear a difference just from moving cables a little.
This brings me back to my point. If everything matters, which I believe in the end it all has an effect. Does having the cables a certain direction stand to improve the cables performance.
I’ve also heard that using the cables, actually kind of sets the direction their meant to be used as the burn in process makes changes to the material giving the flow of electricity.

g3rain1

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #8 on: 19 Apr 2022, 01:25 am »
Audio signals are very reasonably termed AC. https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-an-analogue-audio-signal-dc-or-ac/474740/4

One comment from the linked discussion:

"DC is generally understood to be constant, and AC in most uses is generally understood to be a constant sine wave. Audio signals really aren’t either. Audio signals are varying sine waves in the frequency range of 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. A constant AC signal (meaning of constant frequency) within that range would be called an audio frequency AC signal though. There’s enough weaseling within the common use of the terms that you could easily get away with calling audio signals AC. You just have to be careful of the context. “AC” to many folks means 120 volts AC 60 Hz. It’s more common to just refer to audio signals as “audio” instead of trying to call them AC or DC.

There’s a very important fundamental concept in signals that says any complex waveform can be broken down into a series of sine waves. Your ears hear in the frequency domain, so what you are really hearing is the frequencies of these individual sine waves. The cells in your ears (called hair cells) act like itty bitty bandpass filters, each focusing on a small range of sine waves. So, “sound” is really sine waves. You can’t hear DC. You can only hear sine waves. If you ignore the common usage of the terms, sine waves are by definition alternating, so yes, sound is technically AC. Like I said above, though, calling audio signals “AC” might confuse some people in some contexts."
Seriously?

The current in a speaker cable will rapidly switch direction. So therefore the orientation of the cable is irrelevant. 

There. Better?

corndog71

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #9 on: 19 Apr 2022, 01:55 am »
Of course you can always flip them the other way and live with them for a bit.

Cheytak.408

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #10 on: 19 Apr 2022, 06:08 am »
Seriously?

The current in a speaker cable will rapidly switch direction. So therefore the orientation of the cable is irrelevant. 

There. Better?
Single ended signals are better defined by alternating current biased by DC because the voltages do not swing around a neutral.  There is no zero crossing point with a true audio signal.  I know, I know... hard to wrap you head around, but it is true.  Balanced?  A completely different reality.  There is + (hot) and - (cold) that does swing around ground (center).

Hard to accept that in 'some cases' cables are directional, but there is just too much anecdotal evidence to rally a differing, "snake oil" position that holds water.

Directionality does defy conventional wisdom, but it really is a thing.. again, in some applications. 

I can't think of a better example than the stock Mac mini power cable.  If you are using a Mac mini, listen to a few tracks and then reverse the polarity of the power cable at the mini.  The differences are not subtle.  Part of this is due to the mini power supply wanting to see a particular hot/neutral orientation. The other part is the crappy copper used in the power cable.  Chinese copper is some of the dirtiest copper available with huge carbon and other impurities.   Couple this with the crystalline grain structure and there you have it.  How do I know this?  It is truly classified information from... you know... them.  There is a reason why important connectivity systems and subsystems related to government applications are not sourced from China.

g3rain1

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #11 on: 21 Apr 2022, 06:04 am »
Single ended signals are better defined by alternating current biased by DC because the voltages do not swing around a neutral.  There is no zero crossing point with a true audio signal.  I know, I know... hard to wrap you head around, but it is true.  Balanced?  A completely different reality.  There is + (hot) and - (cold) that does swing around ground (center).

The question is about speaker cables, not interconnects. There is no DC Bias. Other wise your drivers would move in(or out) the moment you powered on your amp.

wingsounds13

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #12 on: 23 Apr 2022, 06:20 am »
Single ended signals are better defined by alternating current biased by DC because the voltages do not swing around a neutral.  There is no zero crossing point with a true audio signal.  I know, I know... hard to wrap you head around, but it is true.  Balanced?  A completely different reality.  There is + (hot) and - (cold) that does swing around ground (center).


Every audio signal that I have measured or seen in properly working equipment swings positive and negative. When there is zero input signal or the input is grounded then the output is also zero Volts.  A normal audio signal does NOT only go to the positive side, the waveform DOES have zero crossings and is centered around 0V.  Now, at some points inside an amp or preamp there often is a DC bias that forces the signal to be only one side of ground,  but not on the interconnects - unless the equipment is defective. 

This is my experience and understanding but may not reflect the real world.

J.P.

Coreyportelli

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #13 on: 22 May 2022, 12:32 am »
I have a pair of X MTM Encore speakers, would 14 gauge wire be sufficient in a 5 foot length to power them

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #14 on: 22 May 2022, 01:05 am »
That will work just fine.
Ive used 14 gauge cables in the past

Coreyportelli

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #15 on: 22 May 2022, 01:36 am »
That’s good, because I bought 8 strand braided cable in polyethylene in 14 gauge

Letitroll98

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #16 on: 22 May 2022, 12:04 pm »
Getting into the land of the bizarre, and a topic that would drive non cable believers mad. I just moved my cables around a little; elevating them from resting on flat surfaces and separating cables that were overlapping with spacers. It seems like all the cable burn in that saw the soundstage improve and an improvement in dynamic range has reduced.

Did you clean the connectors on the cable and equipment before switching the orientation?  In every single instance I've tried simply cleaning the contacts results in a remarkable increase in clarity, the wiping of the surfaces when changing cables can do enough cleaning to change the sound by itself.

S Clark

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #17 on: 22 May 2022, 12:57 pm »
Audio signals are A/C?  Really?  I've never heard that before.   :popcorn:
Many moons ago, Moscode amplifiers were being pitched by one of the designers, Harvey Gizmo Rosenberg.  As a gimmick at a show he ran a 60 hz signal on reel to reel tape into a Moscode amp, hooked the speaker outputs to a blender, and made margaritas for the crowd.
So, yes, audio signals are AC.

jrocks29ms@gmail.com

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Re: GR Research speaker cables.
« Reply #18 on: 24 May 2022, 01:06 am »
Are you using like alcohol or windex to clean the contacts. Many of my contacts are silver or gold plated. However i have some straight copper ended power cords too. What there, just a microfiber cloth?