AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 17 Oct 2015, 10:15 pm
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I bought out the remaining inventory of custom Neo 3 tweeters from Serenity Acoustics. These are the models used in the Super-7.
With these I will be producing a limited number of kits with flat packs. The flat packs are a necessary part of this design and have to be CNC cut. Flat packs will be made by our northern neighbors Jay and Don and drop shipped to each customer per order.
I will be limiting these to ten pairs and that's it.
Basically these are the X-Otica with the custom Neo 3 tweeter in an open baffle wave guide. Testing, measuring, and listening to the prototype went fantasitc. So custom Neo 3 tweeters, M-165NQ-16 woofers, and M-165 woofers below.
Here are a few pics of the test box.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX1.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX2.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX3.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX4.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX5.jpg)
We'll be making a few cosmetic changes like sloping the sides and giving the speaker a slight tilt.
Borrowing lessons learned from the Wedgie design, the baffle is 1.5" thick. And with the Neo tweeter mounted to the back side it physically aligns the Neo tweeter to the voice coils of the woofers. So they stay in phase front to back.
And the 1.5" deep wave guide let the tweeter play way on down.... :thumb:
The test models sounds amazing. It is very much like the Wedgie design but with a little more body and fullness.
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The 1.5" deep wave guide and the Neo tweeter are a match made in heaven.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX%20tweeter%20curve.jpg)
Yes, they really do play that low in the wave guide. Look close that's on a 5db scale. So these are much smoother than they look on the graph.
And here is the response curves of the custom Neo 3 and the M165NQ drivers together.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-Otic%20crossover.jpg)
Yes, the tweeter really does cross at 1,100hz. :thumb:
On axis response curve:
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-Otica%20response.jpg)
And super clean spectral decay:
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-Otica%20csd%201%20meter.jpg)
Now here is where it REALLY gets good. The the crossover point being real low. The vertical off axis is almost identical to the on axis response.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-Otica%20vertical%20off%20axis.jpg)
And the horizontal off axis response. In the horizontal plane it is only about 5db down at 6kHz where it is a little strong in the on axis. That's perfect.
In the measured graphs I accidentally saved them without the top octave. So I will go back and re-shoot them shortly. Looks great so far though.
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The limited addition NX-Treme...
And since the tweeter plays so low. It will allow crossing it to four M165NQ drivers in an MMTMM configuration that will bring the sensitivity up to about 96db.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-Treme-1.jpg)
I will be offering only 6 pairs of these, and that's it.
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Just. Awesome.
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Pricing Danny Boy, Pricing.
O.K., that sounds a bit Irish which I am not, but you get the idea :thumb:
Very interested in these, the Wedge is just too small for my Huge great room which I need new speakers for since I moved my Super V's t to my dedicated space.
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Pricing Danny Boy, Pricing.
O.K., that sounds a bit Irish which I am not, but you get the idea :thumb:
Very interested in these, the Wedge is just too small for my Huge great room which I need new speakers for since I moved my Super V's t to my dedicated space.
On the NX-Otica you're looking at $875.00 for the drivers. Plus the crossover cost. I won't say it's final yet (more listening to come next with a pair), but it's close. And then plus the cost of the flat pack, and some shipping.... Not bad at all for what this brings to the table.
On the NX-Treme you're looking at $1,432.00 for the drivers only. Plus the crossover cost. And then plus the cost of the flat pack, and some shipping.... It's going to be a bargain for speakers at this level.
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On the NX-Otica you're looking at $875.00 for the drivers. Plus the crossover cost. I won't say it's final yet (more listening to come next with a pair), but it's close. And then plus the cost of the flat pack, and some shipping.... Not bad at all for what this brings to the table.
On the NX-Treme you're looking at $1,432.00 for the drivers only. Plus the crossover cost. And then plus the cost of the flat pack, and some shipping.... It's going to be a bargain for speakers at this level.
Sounds very fair Danny, so how low with the NX-Otica go. I would love not to have to buy a sub but that may be unrealistic in the room I'm in. The Super V's are the only speakers I've ever had in my great room that could produce satisfying bass
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Sounds very fair Danny, so how low with the NX-Otica go. I would love not to have to buy a sub but that may be unrealistic in the room I'm in. The Super V's are the only speakers I've ever had in my great room that could produce satisfying bass
The NX-Otica in my room played flat to 60Hz and then fell like a rock. So not ideal for use without subs, but perfect for use with subs, especially open baffle subs.
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Very Interesting.
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Danny,
Awesome stuff. I've been wondering what was in the works for some time now.
With either model, how close to the front wall can they be placed without degrading the sound or sound stage?
How heavy is each completed model?
How much power (tube or SS) do you suppose one needs to drive these to beautiful sound?
Thanks for your answers.
Michael
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Danny,
Awesome stuff. I've been wondering what was in the works for some time now.
With either model, how close to the front wall can they be placed without degrading the sound or sound stage?
How heavy is each completed model?
How much power (tube or SS) do you suppose one needs to drive these to beautiful sound?
Thanks for your answers.
Michael
Like any open baffle speaker they need to be three feet or more from the front wall.
The NX-Otica is not real heavy. I haven't weight it yet, but it is not hard to move around.
Sensitivity of the NX-Otica is about 92db. So they can be driven with lower powered amps. I was driving them with a little 8 to 10 watt chip amp pretty well.
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It was killing me to be quiet :lol:
Greg, I'm going to shoot you a PM, we aren't really that far away from each other
Michail, the first completed prototype that we shipped down hit the UPS scales at 51 lbs packed, I'd guess add another 20 - 25 lbs for drivers and corssover (approx).
jay
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It was killing me to be quiet :lol:
Greg, I'm going to shoot you a PM, we aren't really that far away from each other
Michail, the first completed prototype that we shipped down hit the UPS scales at 51 lbs packed, I'd guess add another 20 - 25 lbs for drivers and corssover (approx).
jay
Stinker :no_speak:
So which one is going to replace the OB7's?
Mike
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LOL, I don't think the NX-Treme will even fit in my room man !!
I don't need a crystal ball to see a pair in don's room though, can't wait .
jay
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What are the dimensions of the NX-Otica?
Will the base for the NX-Otica look similar to the base for the NX-Treme?
And I assume No-Rez would be beneficial, too?
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What are the dimensions of the NX-Otica?
Will the base for the NX-Otica look similar to the base for the NX-Treme?
And I assume No-Rez would be beneficial, too?
52.5" tall before base, 8.5" wide baffle, short wings are 2" off rear of baffle, long wings are 14" off rear of baffle,tweeter cutout is the same as above. It will be similar to this but there will be some cosmetic changes as Danny mentioned (rounding of corners, sloped tops on wings to match 8 degree slope on lower wing etc
Not a lot ofdiscussion regarding basses yet. We just modeled them to basically match the shape of the cabinet. I think the NX-Treme will have an outrigger(s0 of some sort
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=129917)
jay
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Tube-friendly impedance?
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Limited edition?
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Tube-friendly impedance?
Yes, vary tube friendly. I'm a tube guy.
Limited edition?
There is a limited number of tweeters available.
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so how low does the nxotica play?
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so how low does the nxotica play?
The one I tested in my room played flat to 60Hz then fell like a rock. It made it real easy to blend one of our open baffle servo subs with it.
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Danny/Jay - splitting the 82.5" pieces in half might save significant UPS charges, as they charge a lot for long dimensions. Easy to butt-join them together with a Kreg jig.
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Danny/Jay - splitting the 82.5" pieces in half might save significant UPS charges, as they charge a lot for long dimensions. Easy to butt-join them together with a Kreg jig.
Good idea Hank.
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Danny/Jay - splitting the 82.5" pieces in half might save significant UPS charges, as they charge a lot for long dimensions. Easy to butt-join them together with a Kreg jig.
What about the bafle though ?
jay
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? ALL the long pieces - including the baffle. UPS will charge a big premium for a package that is that long (82.5" plus padding on each end); in fact, that may be too long for UPS to accept - not sure. Also, more prone to being damaged, being a bit awkward to handle, and UPS is not know to be overly careful with big cartons :|
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How large a room would be needed for the NX Treme model?
My room is 13.4 feet by 25.5 feet and 8 feet in height.
tks
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How large a room would be needed for the NX Treme model?
My room is 13.4 feet by 25.5 feet and 8 feet in height.
tks
That would work great.
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Can we please change the title to "edition"? Addition is killing me.
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Can we please change the title to "edition"? Addition is killing me.
Good idea. And how obvious now that you mention it.
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Any chance of employing biscuits on the flat packs? I wouldn't mind paying a bit more as it would make assembly much, much easier.
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Any chance of employing biscuits on the flat packs? I wouldn't mind paying a bit more as it would make assembly much, much easier.
It is definitley something we'll lookinto. The wings will fint into the baffle and meet the roundover at 10 degrees.
jay
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Any chance of employing biscuits on the flat packs? I wouldn't mind paying a bit more as it would make assembly much, much easier.
Dominoes (https://www.google.com/url?q=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGYW_9MgSp6Q&sa=U&ved=0CBMQtwIwAGoVChMIwqOR2qHVyAIVjjeICh3eAQT4&sig2=xURtZNGSeecnWFmZ0OTcXg&usg=AFQjCNGudJ-4L0wMztpV7tJTtss7nqd7jA) would be utterly amazing.
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Dominoes (https://www.google.com/url?q=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGYW_9MgSp6Q&sa=U&ved=0CBMQtwIwAGoVChMIwqOR2qHVyAIVjjeICh3eAQT4&sig2=xURtZNGSeecnWFmZ0OTcXg&usg=AFQjCNGudJ-4L0wMztpV7tJTtss7nqd7jA) would be utterly amazing.
And so is the price Festool gets for that system. It is nice though.
I have a floor standing dowel machine that is faster than both,
but I'm not volunteering.
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I've built many speaker cabinets over the years, from Danny's original huge and heavy Alpha LS to monitor sizes and I've never used biscuits or dowels OR screws. Accurate 90 degree cut parts will glue very strong if clamped correctly. For large tower-size cabs, I'll brad nail in a few spots the large pieces right after glue application to keep them aligned while applying clamps.
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And so is the price Festool gets for that system. It is nice though.
I have a floor standing dowel machine that is faster than both,
but I'm not volunteering.
The way it registers it's superior to dowels for certain applications. There's always the Mafell duo-dowel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUI67MZUsCs) too. :green:
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Accurate 90 degree cut parts will glue very strong if clamped correctly.
From the looks of things (based on pictures and wedgie build threads) these don't have many 90 degree cuts and others have had a little trouble keeping everything lined up during assembly. It's certainly doable without help (properly angled scrap pieces, brads, etc), but it seems a little added time/effort to add biscuits would simplify things.
Looking forward to see how this design evolves. The lower x-over point, driver alignment and improved low-end authority sound like great improvements.
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A model of the NX-Ottica cabinet after implementing some cosmetic changes. Just learning t o use the software so it's been a bit of a challange. There is supposed to be a free plugin for Sketchup called Roundcorner , makes doing roundovers and bevels etc much easier (there will of course be a wave cuide, I'm just struggling to model it ) I need to get my hands on that
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130328)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130329)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130331)
jay
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Looks great!
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A model of the NX-Ottica cabinet after implementing some cosmetic changes. Just learning t o use the software so it's been a bit of a challange. There is supposed to be a free plugin for Sketchup called Roundcorner , makes doing roundovers and bevels etc much easier (there will of course be a wave cuide, I'm just struggling to model it ) I need to get my hands on that
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130328)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130329)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130331)
jay
Jay, I can't comment on the add-on module, but you can do bevels and roundovers pretty easily in Sketchup by first drawing the profile in one plane and then either use the push-pull tool or the follow me tool. On that wave guide you could draw it in cross-section starting from the small opening and then follow me around the opening. Hard to explain without benefit of eyeballs on screen.
Two bits of advice I'll offer up. 1. Make groups of individual components (baffle, box, etc.) so you can more easily modify them later. 2.Make use of the Hide tool. As an example, you can hide the baffle as you work on box, etc. I love Sketchup for all kinds of things and I barely scratch the surface of it's capability, let alone plug-ins. Lots of tutorials, I imagine what I want to do, then Google that specific operation.
If you like, I could send you model for X-otica to play with, would just need your email address. If you've a notion, I'll mess around with your N model if you send my way.
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Thanks guys,
Been using the tutorials, a big help and the first one I watched showed the imjportance of using groups so I have been doig that... most of the time (forgot once an "glued a piece onto the model which I was
jay
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What's the point of the "wing" on one side of the OB?
I understand the point of using a wing on both sides such as a U-frame baffle, but this L or J-frame doesn't make sense to me.
Also, having that wing along side the MTM section, doesn't that create some sort of odd reflections or resonances being that close to the mids? I would think it would also close in the sound stage some.
Of course, I could be, and probably am completely wrong about all of that. Never hurts to ask though.
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What's the point of the "wing" on one side of the OB?
I understand the point of using a wing on both sides such as a U-frame baffle, but this L or J-frame doesn't make sense to me.
Also, having that wing along side the MTM section, doesn't that create some sort of odd reflections or resonances being that close to the mids? I would think it would also close in the sound stage some.
Of course, I could be, and probably am completely wrong about all of that. Never hurts to ask though.
What the wing or wings do is separate the front and back waves to allow a lower extension.
You can only use a U or V shaped frame in low frequency ranges only. If frequency comes up high enough to allow a wavelength to propagate within the U or V baffle then it will set up a cavity resonance. So basically in this application anything playing over 200Hz can only use a single wing.
The angled wing around the MTM section doesn't create any odd reflections and it is not loaded or pressurized in any way. So there is no resonance issues from it either.
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What the wing or wings do is separate the front and back waves to allow a lower extension.
You can only use a U or V shaped frame in low frequency ranges only. If frequency comes up high enough to allow a wavelength to propagate within the U or V baffle then it will set up a cavity resonance. So basically in this application anything playing over 200Hz can only use a single wing.
The angled wing around the MTM section doesn't create any odd reflections and it is not loaded or pressurized in any way. So there is no resonance issues from it either.
Okay, that all makes sense except for allowing for lower extension. The reason I can't understand it (and I understand OB's as I've built several) is because you have one side that has a distance about a meter or more separating the front and rear wave which makes sense. However, on the other side there's only a few inches separating the front and rear wave.
So while the wing side may allow an extra 100 Hz extension, the short side might only allow a 5-10 Hz extension (just made up figures mind you). So does this type of one-sided wing sort of halve that result and get you something like a 50 Hz extension overall instead?
Trust me Danny, I'm not doubting any of this at all, or you for that matter. I'm just trying to figure out how it all works out together. :wink:
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Okay, that all makes sense except for allowing for lower extension. The reason I can't understand it (and I understand OB's as I've built several) is because you have one side that has a distance about a meter or more separating the front and rear wave which makes sense. However, on the other side there's only a few inches separating the front and rear wave.
So while the wing side may allow an extra 100 Hz extension, the short side might only allow a 5-10 Hz extension (just made up figures mind you). So does this type of one-sided wing sort of halve that result and get you something like a 50 Hz extension overall instead?
Trust me Danny, I'm not doubting any of this at all, or you for that matter. I'm just trying to figure out how it all works out together. :wink:
Adding the short wing that is two inches deep is not the sme thing as adding two more inches to the long one. And the short wing really doesn't add extension. It can change the response in adding gain and in decreasing gain in the area above where it adds gain by shifting the knee to a lower range.
When I get a chance I'll post some curves so you can see what happens.
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Danny, if it is not a proprietary question, then is there a 'rule of thumb'
ratio for the midwoofer wing depth to the width of the front baffle?
...asked from the perspective of someone with amateur aspirations of
creating an OB line source from inexpensive 'close out / discontinued'
drivers :)
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Danny, if it is not a proprietary question, then is there a 'rule of thumb'
ratio for the midwoofer wing depth to the width of the front baffle?
...asked from the perspective of someone with amateur aspirations of
creating an OB line source from inexpensive 'close out / discontinued'
drivers :)
Keep in mind that the front baffle represents forward reflecting surface reflections. Ideally you want zero forward reflecting surface reflections. And the bigger and wider the front baffle is more all those surface reflections make the sound appear to play at you from the baffle. A big wide baffle might as well be in an in-wall speaker.
Wing depth and short side wing (in some cases) all has to do with the drivers natural response and roll off and how to control or manipulate it without having to add passive or active correction. So it can vary with each application.
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New measured curves that include the lower four woofers.
On axis response:
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-O%20on%20axis%20response.jpg)
Spectral decay:
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-O%20csd.jpg)
Crossover points:
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-O%20crossover%20response.jpg)
Vertical off axis:
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-O%20vertical%20off%20axis.jpg)
Horizontal off axis response:
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-O%20horizontal%20off%20axis.jpg)
Impedance response:
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-O%20impedance.jpg)
This all looks really great and I am really pleased with it.
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Were the original measurements done with only the top three drivers connected?
I suck at this stuff Danny, could you do some remedial explanation (again) of what we're looking at in some context a dumb woodworker can grapple with.
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They are looking very good to me Peter
remeber, it's a 5 db scale so it looks rougher than it actually is. There would appear to be a bit of a peak around 18-19 KHz but that is getting pretty high in the response to worry about ( I think)
The waterfall shows there is not much energy being stored, it's all falling off evenly and fairly quckly (again,I think I'm reading that ight).
The off axis response is very similar to the actual response which is exellent !!
I can't wait to get the pair down to you Danny !! And the Extremes :thumb:
jay
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Were the original measurements done with only the top three drivers connected?
Yes, and with a different tweeter.
I suck at this stuff Danny, could you do some remedial explanation (again) of what we're looking at in some context a dumb woodworker can grapple with.
Here is a really good explaination regarding the way I measure speakers and some good examples of how speakers typically measure. http://www.stereomojo.com/Small%20Speaker%20Shootout%202007/StereomojoSmallSpeakerShootout2007Measurements.htm
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Yes, and with a different tweeter.
Here is a really good explaination regarding the way I measure speakers and some good examples of how speakers typically measure. http://www.stereomojo.com/Small%20Speaker%20Shootout%202007/StereomojoSmallSpeakerShootout2007Measurements.htm
Concerning the tweeter, did I miss something? Both neos?
Ahhh, just the ticket in the link. I work with this stuff infrequently so it's just not always intuitive to me. The explanations are very helpful.
You've raised another question for me though. I think you mentioned earlier that the response dropped off significantly below 60 Hz. This was just the top section?
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Concerning the tweeter, did I miss something? Both neos?
Yes, I have been testing with the standard Neo 3 pdr and the custom units that I got from Serenity.
Ahhh, just the ticket in the link. I work with this stuff infrequently so it's just not always intuitive to me. The explanations are very helpful.
Good.
You've raised another question for me though. I think you mentioned earlier that the response dropped off significantly below 60 Hz. This was just the top section?
No, that was with the lower four playing. The MTM woofers crossover near 160Hz.
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Hey Danny,
Glad to hear the x-otica speakers sound even better than you expected. Have you had the chance to spend some more time measuring/listening to the NX version?
Cheers,
David
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Hey Danny,
Glad to hear the x-otica speakers sound even better than you expected. Have you had the chance to spend some more time measuring/listening to the NX version?
Cheers,
David
I am being sent a pair of the flat packs to finalize. And then I will build out a pair and make sure I don't want to change or tweak something.
After that they will be made available.
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They're coming guys... going from paper to CNC cutting has been more work than we envisioned but we are almost there.. Some custom tooling and material is on the way and if all goes according to plan, cutting will commence next week for the pair going to Danny and a pair to assemble here to be sure no issues exist. We're trying to keep thiese as simple to assemble as possible but there is some complexity in the design/cutting, lots of angles and radii.
The Extremes will follow soon after.
Also worth noting is we'll be running off some pairs of both dual and triple H-frames which we'll make available in either a flush mount top or the over hang we've seen in other posts
-jay :beer:
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They're coming guys... going from paper to CNC cutting has been more work than we envisioned but we are almost there.. Some custom tooling and material is on the way and if all goes according to plan, cutting will commence next week for the pair going to Danny and a pair to assemble here to be sure no issues exist. We're trying to keep thiese as simple to assemble as possible but there is some complexity in the design/cutting, lots of angles and radii.
The Extremes will follow soon after.
Also worth noting is we'll be running off some pairs of both dual and triple H-frames which we'll make available in either a flush mount top or the over hang we've seen in other posts
-jay :beer:
And for everyone ordering these please keep in mind that the cost of the flat pack has to cover the development time of a lot of programming, and a lot of work to make these go together easily for you.
These are going to really be worth it though. They will be a benchmark for a long time.
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Hey Folks
Thought I'd share some photos of progress on these cabinets with everyone. I know this has taken a bit longer than anticipated, this has been a lot tougher than we ever anticiplated. Rest asured, , here is one of the cabinets dry fitted that will go out to Danny within the next day or two. We are plannin to glue up a pair ourselves this weekend so I'll share more pics soon.
These bases will be mirrored , one specifically for each side, and the pics don't do them justice, they are pretty cool
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134278)
The bases have 3 dowels and 2 screws for each wing to ensure alignemnt is correct (these will come in the kits)
(cold outside, had to work in the kiitchen !!)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134280)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134279)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134280)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134282)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134283)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134285)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134286)
Still a couple minor tweaks to make but these are getting very close to being avasilable, features and details to follow soon.
We are alos considering producing a version that will be almost identical but will accomadate the design of the X-Ottica, curiouos to know if there would be much interest in such a product
Sorry guys, I obciouisly forgot to get one of the front of the cabinets. I'll get one soon !!
-jay
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Jay, I really like the way you handled the back cutout for the face of the NEO3. I love my Wedgies but I have this illness that makes me want to build these as well. :? :lol: :thumb:
Best,
Ed
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Jay, I really like the way you handled the back cutout for the face of the NEO3. I love my Wedgies but I have this illness that makes me want to build these as well. :? :lol: :thumb:
Best,
Ed
Thanks Ed ,
This was something we watned to be spot on, we wanted that tweeter to sit in a pocket and be right up against the backside of the wave guide just like the face plate of the Neo 3 PDR .
Unfortunately,k I haven't heard these yet.... Don has spent many, many hours listening to my system ... he has only heard one of these at Danny;'s but keeps telling me how surprised/impressed I am going to be !!. Can't wait :beer:
jay
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Danny:
I feel for you over the Neo 3 supply situation. With so many of your designs dependent on it, it has to hurt. What is the status about renewed delivery?
I have been looking for an open baffle kit to build. Went all the way through the Wedgie thread only to find that it, too, was impacted by the Neo supply problem. I thought they, with the still undisclosed bass section, would be the answer for me.
Now, I see these NX-Otica, and think they could work. The NX-Treme is just too tall for me (read WAF). I wonder why you went to 16 inch driver design over the LGK?
The issue I have with buying the NX-Otica is the need for subwoofers. I have two JL Audio f113s, but as you know, those are sealed boxes. I really want open baffle bass. To get open baffle bass with the NX-Otica, it seems I will need another stack of speakers, which is undesirable (WAF again, without even asking). Is it possible to take two of the bass woofers and replace them with servo woofers in a U, W or H configuration? It seems those would fit within the cabinet. The speakers would then be 4-ways.
Josh
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Danny:
I feel for you over the Neo 3 supply situation. With so many of your designs dependent on it, it has to hurt. What is the status about renewed delivery?
You are not kidding. It has really impacted my sales.
I have been looking for an open baffle kit to build. Went all the way through the Wedgie thread only to find that it, too, was impacted by the Neo supply problem. I thought they, with the still undisclosed bass section, would be the answer for me.
Man, I love those speakers. They are really great open baffle speakers for small to medium sized rooms too.
Now, I see these NX-Otica, and think they could work. The NX-Treme is just too tall for me (read WAF). I wonder why you went to 16 inch driver design over the LGK?
They are just 6.5" woofers. The larger woofers offer a little more body and bass impact. They also play much lower so the crossover point to the servo subs is around 80Hz instead of 200Hz. And with the really low crossover point to the custom Neo tweeter in that deeper 1.5" wave guide, they really don't give up much to the smaller and lighter weight 3" LGK's.
The issue I have with buying the NX-Otica is the need for subwoofers. I have two JL Audio f113s, but as you know, those are sealed boxes. I really want open baffle bass. To get open baffle bass with the NX-Otica, it seems I will need another stack of speakers, which is undesirable (WAF again, without even asking). Is it possible to take two of the bass woofers and replace them with servo woofers in a U, W or H configuration? It seems those would fit within the cabinet. The speakers would then be 4-ways.
You could use your JL Audio subs with the NX-Otica's. It won't be full open baffle and it will give up a lot to the servo subs, but you could use them.
Even with the Wedgie kit the additional servo subs are needed for the base. So the cost of the bottom end is pretty close.
The NX-Otica is a four piece system though. You could go with just the upper MTM section on an H frame of a pair of the servo subs. It might look a little odd, but it would work.
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Thanks for the very quick response, Danny.
My mistake on the drivers. I saw 16 and jumped to the conclusion that was diameter without thinking it through. Duh. I wondered how you could get the tweeter height correct. The obvious answer was it's not possible, but didn't challenge myself.
Cost matters, of course, but the cost of adding the bass is less an issue than fitting it into a single tower. Please explain further what you mean by a 4 piece system. If I went with the upper MTMs would I just cutoff the baffles in the flat pack to shorten them? Aren't we not then at the same place as putting a bass unit under the Wedgie? Is it possible to DIY what you were contemplating as the bass unit for the Wedgie to go under the NX-Otica?
Josh
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Although I unfortunately can't be in the market for these, for sake of the crowd, I thought to ask how you were addressing wire management with the cabinets? I also didn't see anywhere at first glance for a mounting point for binding posts/tube connectors.
Congratulations again on getting as much as can be had out of the last ride for the BG tweeters!
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Danny:
With the crossover to the sub at 60 Hz or so, would a single sub tower work getting the low-pass from both mains? If it does, I assume it does not have to be located near the mains. Correct?
Josh
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Although I unfortunately can't be in the market for these, for sake of the crowd, I thought to ask how you were addressing wire management with the cabinets? I also didn't see anywhere at first glance for a mounting point for binding posts/tube connectors.
Congratulations again on getting as much as can be had out of the last ride for the BG tweeters!
We have included holes in the braces to pass the wiring thourgh which will be orientated to the insde (full wing) of the cabinets. C/O boards that fit snuggly betweenthe no rez and screw to the top of the bases will have a monting point for the tube connectors (they'll of course mirror each other for left/right cabinet).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134417)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134418)
I used some cool little "rubber feet:" on the bottom of my amp boxes for my subs, trying find a place to get a bunch of them so we can throw 8 of them in with the kits for the bottom of the c/o boards
jay
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Extremely well thought out - good job. Can't wait to see final product :thumb:
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Aren't we not then at the same place as putting a bass unit under the Wedgie? Is it possible to DIY what you were contemplating as the bass unit for the Wedgie to go under the NX-Otica?
Josh
Josh,
Yes it will work. The original design is for use with three 8" drivers per side:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134482)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134483)
I modified it for two 12" drivers to fit the Wedgies. Wider and deeper but height is the same (plinth not on in this pic):
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134485)
It will be easy to modify this 12" version to fit the wider NX-Otica or X-Otica. The front piece would need to be 1" wider than the front of the NX-Otica then the dimensions of the top, bottom and internal brace would need to be adjusted to fit. The 12" base units are 17-1/4" deep so the 14" deep NX-Otica will fit on top of the wider wedge without having to make any adjustments to the side panels.
By making the front piece 1" wider there will be 1/2" between the sides of the NX-Otica and the sides of the wedge base units.
Mike
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Mike:
Thanks for the detailed guide to the bass units. They look like a good aesthetic match.
I am still going around on this, though.
By taking away the 4 M165 woofers, the bass units will have to cover their range up to at least 160 Hz. Not sure about that.
This still requires 2 bass units, which is putting the total cost above my budget. Eliminating 4 M165s/side, doesn't even cover half the cost of 1 SW-12-08FR/side. It does answer the space question, but at a lot of added cost and the possible compromise in quality of eliminating the M165s?
I am still thinking going with the NX-Oticas as designed and adding a single double SW-12-08FR subwoofer, if it can be located away from the NX-Oticas, as subwoofers usually are placed away from the mains or surrounds? If so, I also don't know if the SW-12-08FR subwoofer can be placed near a wall or if it has to be 3 feet out in the room?
Josh
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I am still thinking going with the NX-Oticas as designed and adding a single double SW-12-08FR subwoofer, if it can be located away from the NX-Oticas, as subwoofers usually are placed away from the mains or surrounds? If so, I also don't know if the SW-12-08FR subwoofer can be placed near a wall or if it has to be 3 feet out in the room?
How about a pair or a triple 12" on its side and positioned between the two speakers in the middle of the room?
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Mike:
Thanks for the detailed guide to the bass units. They look like a good aesthetic match.
I am still going around on this, though.
By taking away the 4 M165 woofers, the bass units will have to cover their range up to at least 160 Hz. Not sure about that.
This still requires 2 bass units, which is putting the total cost above my budget. Eliminating 4 M165s/side, doesn't even cover half the cost of 1 SW-12-08FR/side. It does answer the space question, but at a lot of added cost and the possible compromise in quality of eliminating the M165s?
I am still thinking going with the NX-Oticas as designed and adding a single double SW-12-08FR subwoofer, if it can be located away from the NX-Oticas, as subwoofers usually are placed away from the mains or surrounds? If so, I also don't know if the SW-12-08FR subwoofer can be placed near a wall or if it has to be 3 feet out in the room?
Josh
Josh
If you are thinking on dual 12" OB subs to pair with the MTM section of the X-Ottica's, they will have no problem playing up to frequencey needed to cross to the NQ's of an MTM.
If you were going with the NX-Otica as designed,, you kind of want the OB base facing towards your listening position... there are nulls at the sides so it can not be beside you. I don't see why you couldn't have it behind the LP and down the road, you could always add a 2nd tower
I used a single dual 12" H-frame with my OB7's for a period of time and it did work pretty well. However, when I added the 2nd tower, it really became obvious a tower on either side of the room was the way to go. The subs are crossed around 70 hz to my OB7's, although that is considered Omni directional. adding the 2nd tower definitly added low end end movement and I'd say improved imaging (soundstage)
Hope that helps a bit
jay
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How about a pair or a triple 12" on its side and positioned between the two speakers in the middle of the room?
and, you could always add a 2nd tower down the road...
I think if you were going to use a single tower, one on its side in the center of the room would be better than 1 orientated vertically on the side of the room
jay
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Jay and Danny:
Your responses are homing me in.
I think working with the NX-Oticas as designed is the way to go. As for the bass unit ...
I can have the double-12 facing me, it would just be off to the side of the right speaker, up to 7 feet to the right and possibly in the corner.
Danny's idea of having a triple on its side between the speakers is intriguing. This is in a home theater arrangement. The NX-Oticas will be the L and R. So, I will have to put a C on top of the H-cabinet. Don't see why that wouldn't work. Except the decision is not mine alone :lol:.
Nobody answered yet about the placement of the H-cabinet. Can it be in the corner? If it is on its side between the NX-Oticas, how far should it be from the front wall? Same as the NX-Otica's 3 feet or can it be closer?
Danny, can you say anything yet on the cost of the flat pack?
To muddy the waters, if I do not do this, I am going to build Troels Gravesen's OBL-15. http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/OBL-15.htm (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/OBL-15.htm). It is a 34Wx36H 3-way open wide baffle. 15 in bass speaker, 8 inch mid and 34mm tweeter in a waveguide. It is all passive, so it's plug and play with what I have. It will cost about $2,000 plus wood. Anybody care to comment?
Josh
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Jay and Danny:
Your responses are homing me in.
I think working with the NX-Oticas as designed is the way to go. As for the bass unit ...
I can have the double-12 facing me, it would just be off to the side of the right speaker, up to 7 feet to the right and possibly in the corner.
With a crossover point at near 80Hz you'll want to the woofers to be fairly close to the speakers. Going with a single unit off to one side will put it pretty far away from one of the speakers.
Placing it in the center keeps it equal distance from both speakers and will blend easily.
Danny's idea of having a triple on its side between the speakers is intriguing. This is in a home theater arrangement. The NX-Oticas will be the L and R. So, I will have to put a C on top of the H-cabinet. Don't see why that wouldn't work. Except the decision is not mine alone :lol:.
It can be just a pair on their side.
And you can stand mount your center channel right behind it. It can even be a couple of feet behind it. I even have some X-Voce's left in stock that would blend with these pretty well. Or for a smaller speaker the Carnegie Acoustics CSC-1 would work well too. They use the same tweeter.
Nobody answered yet about the placement of the H-cabinet. Can it be in the corner? If it is on its side between the NX-Oticas, how far should it be from the front wall? Same as the NX-Otica's 3 feet or can it be closer?
I'd avoid the corner and go for the middle of the room.
Danny, can you say anything yet on the cost of the flat pack?
Don and Jay are working on the flat packs and will have some prices for me shortly.
To muddy the waters, if I do not do this, I am going to build Troels Gravesen's OBL-15. http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/OBL-15.htm (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/OBL-15.htm). It is a 34Wx36H 3-way open wide baffle. 15 in bass speaker, 8 inch mid and 34mm tweeter in a waveguide. It is all passive, so it's plug and play with what I have. It will cost about $2,000 plus wood. Anybody care to comment?
I have designed a lot of open baffle speakers, and this design illustrates perfectly everything that I try to avoid. It might as well be an in-wall speaker. With a baffle that large the sound stage and imaging depth will really suffer. Everything will appear to come from the baffle forward. This why I fold the baffle back into a winged design. It provides the needed front to back separation of a big baffle but without the surface reflections.
I am also not a big fan of the crossover parts used in those things. Those Jantzen inductors are all made from recycled Copper over in China. Then electrolytic caps, necessary connection points, long binding posts...
And the center of the tweeter is only 30" high. That's pretty low. That will keep the sound stage height really low too.
I like the drivers though. I bet I could do a lot with them in a different application.
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Danny:
I knew you weren't a fan of the Jantzen crossover components. I was more interested in the baffle design, which you addressed. I am making a leap of faith into the open baffle concept, not having heard a single one. I have a very nice system that many might question my wanting to change. But, I want that sense of being at the performance that I do not now have without loss of clarity, detail and resolution. I think open baffle could be that answer. I have read pros/cons on the wide open baffles ala OBL-15, and there are both sides, as in most things. People who have built the OBL-15 speak highly of them and do not report bad things about imaging and soundstaging. Don't get me wrong, I do not doubt your experience. I just don't understand enough myself to get it. I am sure it comes down to diffraction, front/back propagation delay, and relative direct versus reflected sounds. I wish I knew more to engage. I feel pretty ignorant.
I will have to look at the room layout and show my wife some ideas. I don't think I have room to put the C behind the bass unit. The C will have to be on its side on top of the bass unit. The bass unit can be a double or triple. It can even be an 8-incher.
Does the bass unit have to be 3 feet from the wall?
Josh
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As for there being two sides regarding wide baffles verses what I am doing with smaller baffles it really comes down to experience verses ignorance. And I don't mean for that to sound as bad as it does. The guys using the wide baffles do so to gain low frequency extension and simply don't know any other way to go about it. The big baffle presents a huge problem though.
Even Sigfred Linkwitz has gotten away from the wider baffle design of the Orion and gone to an almost zero baffle design with his new LX model. And it was a good move on his part. I always had a hard time listening to the Orion because of the issues with the wider baffle. It just made the speakers sound flat compared to what I was used to. The problem with the zero sized baffle is that it requires a ton of EQ to correct for the effects of it. He is covering that with a electronic or digital correction system though.
When you get down to it is simple physics. And I have a ton of measurements showing the effects of different baffles, wings, wing depths, etc. If you have the tools to see what the effect really is then it becomes real easy.
On your question about the bass unit having to be three feet out into the room. Yes, it has to be at least three feet out and more is better.
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Danny:
Thanks for the further explanation. I sense that I may have irked you. I certainly didn't mean to and I meant no challenge. As I said, I am the ignorant one here.
Also as I said, I am going to look at my layout and see if this can work.
Josh
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Danny:
Thanks for the further explanation. I sense that I may have irked you. I certainly didn't mean to and I meant no challenge. As I said, I am the ignorant one here.
Also as I said, I am going to look at my layout and see if this can work.
Josh
Josh, Danny is not alone in finding a wide baffle to have negative effects upon a loudspeakers performance. One of the major discoveries made in loudspeaker research in the past three or four decades has been of the deleterious effect of a wide baffle upon the sound quality of loudspeakers, especially in regards to imaging, but also frequency response. Manufactures of loudspeakers with "advanced" design go to a lot of trouble to make their speakers with a baffle as small as possible---Kef, Vandersteen, Wilson, and the other high-end companies making box speakers. The DIY OB hobbiests are way behind the curve in this area.
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Josh,
As it was explained to me, the reason for the 3ft from the wall has to do with reflection timing. If the reflections off the front wall reach your ears too close in time to the direct wave from the speaker the sound is muddied and smeared. The closer to the front wall, the more the smearing. 3ft separates the direct and reflected waves enough that they are perceived as two distinct sounds. Not only does this eliminate the smearing, it provides a sense of spaciousness to the sound.
I have experimented with my open baffle speakers being 3ft from the front wall, closer and farther away. With at least 3ft, the sound seems to come from the entire front wall for width and height (soundstage is wider and higher then the actual speaker placement. And this with the speakers only 5ft apart (try that with box speakers). For depth, the front wall disappears in that the soundstage seems much deeper than the distance between the speakers and where the wall should be. In a larger room (20ft x 25ft) I found the 5ft from the front wall and 7ft apart sounded best.
However, moving them closer than 3ft had a number of deleterious effects. In addition to smearing and less clarity, I found that moving the speakers closer to the front wall collapsed the soundstage. The closer to the wall, the more the soundstage shrunk.
If you can use the single sub on it's side between the speakers, and have the sub at least 3ft from the wall then go for it. This will give you the best performance with a single OB sub. If you put the center channel speaker on top of the sub, put some kind of damping material between the two.
If there is no way you can get the 3ft distance from the front wall for the sub, the second best choice would be to use one of the 12" sealed servo subs. You could place this wherever it worked best (sub crawl). I used this method for six months after building the Wedgies while saving up for the OB bass units. However, do be aware that this is a compromise. You will get your bass but it won't quite mesh properly. After having listened to both types of bass, I am of the firm opinion that OB bass is the only way to properly integrate bass with OB speakers.
Mike
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Danny:
Thanks for the further explanation. I sense that I may have irked you. I certainly didn't mean to and I meant no challenge. As I said, I am the ignorant one here.
Also as I said, I am going to look at my layout and see if this can work.
Josh
No, not irked at all. I just felt like further explanation was needed. You're fine.
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Danny,
Is the 3 feet from the front, center or back of the H - frame cabinet?
BP 24,
I would like to see links to the research you mention on the influence of baffle size. I am not sure that citing trends on baffle size in closed box commercial designs translates into optimum baffle size for open baffle designs.
Josh
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Danny,
Is the 3 feet from the front, center or back of the H - frame cabinet?
BP 24,
I would like to see links to the research you mention on the influence of baffle size. I am not sure that citing trends on baffle size in closed box commercial designs translates into optimum baffle size for open baffle designs.
Josh
here is a good place to start: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Description.htm
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Danny,
Is the 3 feet from the front, center or back of the H - frame cabinet?
BP 24,
I would like to see links to the research you mention on the influence of baffle size. I am not sure that citing trends on baffle size in closed box commercial designs translates into optimum baffle size for open baffle designs.
Josh
Josh---A large baffle creates the same problems in an OB design as it does in a sealed or ported one. The fact that the back of the driver in an OB loudspeaker is open air is in no way related to the problems created by a large baffle. The first study that published it's findings on the subject was, I believe, The National Institute of Research in Canada (Canadian taxpayer funded---yay Democratic Socialism ;-)). The BBC in England (funded by the British government for the general benefit of its citizens) concurred with the Canadian researchers. British Loudspeaker company KEF, itself heavily into research, started designing their speakers with little modules into which they placed individual drivers, rather than on a baffle proper. Many high end American companies now do the same.
Where Danny Richie is ahead of other OB designers is in using side "wings" to increase the distance between the front and back of the drivers (simulating a large baffle in that regard) in his OB designs. Doing so eliminates the need for a big baffle, preventing the problems caused by such a baffle while maintaining its benefits. A smaller baffle is better than a large one in many ways---maybe Danny would want to list some of them here.
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Bhp24 and gab,
Thanks for the pointers.
Josh
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Still trying to figure out how to make this work for me. I don't think I have room to put a sub on its side between the L and R.
I still wonder if the bottom 3 M165-16 speakers could be replaced with SW-8-16FR servo subs. I am thinking the servo subs would be put into an H arrangement inside of the NX-Otica's cabinet. In other words, straight walls would be built perpendicular from the front baffle towards the rear and the H baffle would be built half way back. The outer wedge shape would remain. Is this possible?
Josh
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Still trying to figure out how to make this work for me. I don't think I have room to put a sub on its side between the L and R.
I still wonder if the bottom 3 M165-16 speakers could be replaced with SW-8-16FR servo subs. I am thinking the servo subs would be put into an H arrangement inside of the NX-Otica's cabinet. In other words, straight walls would be built perpendicular from the front baffle towards the rear and the H baffle would be built half way back. The outer wedge shape would remain. Is this possible?
Josh
Josh,
You'd have to completely redesign the cabinet. The 8" drivers are wider then the M-165's plus they need double thick walls so the 8" section needs to be 12-1/2" wide. It would be a lot easier to build a 3 x 8" H-Frame then set the MTM section on top of it. Like this:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134731)
Just replace the Wedgies with the MTM section of the NX-Otica, there's plenty of room.
Mike
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Yeah, you could go with three of the 8's instead of the four M-165's. But the baffle would need to be made wider below the bottom M-165NQ.
You could go with a split baffle design and make a separate wider V shaped baffle for the 8's. They will need to be much beefier.
Tricky, but possible....
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OK, I give. KISS is better. I think the NX-OTICA as designed is the way to. I'll hem and haw about the subs, start with my existing ones or go for a center open baffle sub right away. Waiting now to learn what this will cost.
Josh
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here is a good place to start: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Description.htm
Those are cool speakers, but they have zero wife acceptance factor. Even I'm having a hard time justifying them. I do like Linkwitz, though. He's very scientific.
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Danny:
Any idea when you might have cost estimates?
Josh
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Danny:
Any idea when you might have cost estimates?
Josh
The first cabinets that will be offered as flat packs will be here in a few days. I need to test fit the cabinets and build out a pair of them to finalize the crossovers. So we should know something in a few weeks.
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Danny:
Any idea when you might have cost estimates?
Josh
Josh
We sent Danny his flat pack late last week, he should have it soon. We also assembled a pair here and although we did find a couple little bugs that will be corrected in the packs we ship, the packs went together very nicely (I'll throw a few pics up below).
We were able to source solid 1.5" MDF for the baffles so no laminating was required (our subs will also use this same 1.5" material). The wings fit into 10 degree rabets on the rear side of the baffle that have been cut into .5" radius roundovers on the front verticle edges making for an exellent transition between the radius and the angled wings.
All the braces in the rear fit into dados in both the wings and rear of front baffle. Driver holes all have a .625" radius roundover on the rear side. The tweeter sits in a small rabet at the rear of the waveguide.
Wings are positioned on teh base via 3 dowels per side and attached via 2 screws/glue helping to aid assembly.
All driver and tweeter mouinting screw holes are pre-drilled.
Bases are side specific and trust me, the pictures do not sdo them justice, they look pretty cool.... the pics actually don't give you the real feel of the cabinetss , they are very sleek and attractive whenn you are in the room with them
Costs ARE coming very soon, hopefully Danny will receive his kit either in the next few business days . The other fellow involved in this (Don) is away on business until Sunday night/Monday am but we hope to have final tallies and pricing done very soon. We're waiting on custom shippping boxes at this point, hoping next week on those as well
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135158)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135167)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135159)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135160)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135161)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135162)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135163)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135164)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135165)
jay
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Jay,
Thanks for the update and good job! Looks like they are coming together nicely.
Josh
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Jay,
Those look really nice. How does the 1.5" MDF compare pricewise to the 0.75" MDF? Just curious. Around here I can get 1.5" MDF but I have to special order it and it costs $150 for a 4' X 8' sheet whereas 0.75" is in stock and costs $25 for a 4' x 8' sheet. $50 plus glue to get a 4' x 8' x 1.5" sheet of MDF so I have to stick with laminating it up.
Mike
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Thanks guys. It has been a process but we are almost "there" :beer:I forgot to post this pic, it shows the rabets on the rear side of he bafle for the wings
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135168)
Mike, getting our hands on the 1.5" MDF up here was not easy but we have secured a decnt amount of it.
We got it a bit cheaper than what you mention but it was well worth it. The CNC shop would not do the laminating so we would have had to laminate 4x8 sheets and then haul it over there, would have been a major PITA
The baffles are not easy to cut and we only get 5 per sheet. We are learning also that backside operations are costly to do and there is a lot of setup involved. Once the program is all dialed in though, it is pretty cool, just a bit of a chore getting there.
jay
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Thanks guys. It has been a process but we are almost "there" :beer:I forgot to post this pic, it shows the rabets on the rear side of he bafle for the wings
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135168)
Mike, getting our hands on the 1.5" MDF up here was not easy but we have secured a decnt amount of it.
We got it a bit cheaper than what you mention but it was well worth it. The CNC shop would not do the laminating so we would have had to laminate 4x8 sheets and then haul it over there, would have been a major PITA
The baffles are not easy to cut and we only get 5 per sheet. We are learning also that backside operations are costly to do and there is a lot of setup involved. Once the program is all dialed in though, it is pretty cool, just a bit of a chore getting there.
jay
Jay,
With all the up front work, doing it by hand would probably be faster but only for a couple of units. Once you get the program dialed in cutting as many as you need should be a breeze. The same program should work for both the NX-Otica and the X-Otica, only the tweeter opening is different isn't it?
Mike
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Jay,
With all the up front work, doing it by hand would probably be faster but only for a couple of units. Once you get the program dialed in cutting as many as you need should be a breeze. The same program should work for both the NX-Otica and the X-Otica, only the tweeter opening is different isn't it?
Mike
Mike
Yeah, if there is interest, we'll be doing some X-Otticas as well.
The C2C is a bit different in the MTM sections between the X and NX-Otticas due to the tweeter cutout/recess vs waveguide as you mentioned. This would end up taking 1" off the overall height so the baffle and wings will need to be adjusted. We could maybe get away with leaving the C2C distance the same but with the Peerless tweeter, it could be tightened up by .5" on either side. The Peerless tweeter isn't going to play as low as the Neo3 in the deep waveguide so that tighter C2C might be improtant to reduce filtering... Danny would have to confim. Appearence wise, the tighter C2C is better anyway (IMHO)
There are a lot of angles to make these cabinets work....there is not a lot parallel so it is tough to cut by hand. Then there is the waveguide, the 10 degree rabits meeting the roundovers at 10 degrres, tweeter rabet etc...
jay
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Hey Folks
Late last night I received an email from our painter regarding the NX-Otticas.
I know "we" have discussed a bit about having speakers painted at an automotive shop previously, we actually did this with Don's triple 12's and while we were happy about some aspects of the results, there were other things we weren't so hapy about.
We went back to the same place and this time had a sit down with the owner who was very receptive to what we were looking for. He is now working on his own and really seemed to be interested in what we were doing. Each project is now handled by him and only him, seemed like we'd be able to keep a bit more control as compared to when we had the sus painted. When we were there, he showed us some custom motorcycle parts he had been working on .... the finish on those is what we wanted.
In the end, we decided to give him a go and decided to go witha solvent based paint and higher quality, slower setting clear coat. Thecolor is "Tequila Sunrise Pearl" which really changes in color depending on the angle/light etc. It seems to range from copper/bronze to a farily bright orange and with all the angles of the NX-Ottcas?Extremes, I figured it could come out pretty cool.
Here are a couple pics he sent me. going to pick these up this weekend after he buffs them out :)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136032)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136033)
Here's a pic of a Dodge Ram out in the sun
(http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/67561943.jpg)
jay
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Those are true beauties -- I don't know what else to say. Persistence pays :thumb:.
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Jay, Re: "Tequila Sunrise Pearl" color choice & results ...
Those. Look. Awesome !!! :thumb:
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Those automotive urethanes (I'm assuming) are really spendy aren't they Jay? They do look really good though, I'm anxious to see all fitted out.
So who gets this pair?
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Those automotive urethanes (I'm assuming) are really spendy aren't they Jay? They do look really good though, I'm anxious to see all fitted out.
So who gets this pair?
I'll say they are spendy. I don't know what Jay's cost but when I got a quote for the Wedgie and 3 x 8" wedge base they wanted $1,200 for a two part finish and $1,500 for a three part (pearl or candy type).
Mike
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Thanks guys, hope they look as good in person. Picking up tomorrow hopefully
So who gets this pair?
:scratch: :thumb:
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I'll say they are spendy. I don't know what Jay's cost but when I got a quote for the Wedgie and 3 x 8" wedge base they wanted $1,200 for a two part finish and $1,500 for a three part (pearl or candy type).
Mike
That's insane!
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I'll say they are spendy. I don't know what Jay's cost but when I got a quote for the Wedgie and 3 x 8" wedge base they wanted $1,200 for a two part finish and $1,500 for a three part (pearl or candy type).
Mike
That makes the Super V's Ruben built and painted to perfection an absolute steel.
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That's insane!
And I'll bet at least 40% of that was for materials. Last I bought, a gallon of 2K primer was around $150. Clear was about same. Base coat was around $70 per pint. Then there's specific catalysts, reducers etc. not to mention pearls or other fun. It really adds up quick. It's actually part of what makes auto body work expensive.
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That's insane!
I thought so too so I bought an HVLP system and sprayed them myself. After having done so I came to the realization that the price wasn't as insane as it originally sounded.
Closed box speakers are pretty easy to sand and the inside doesn't matter at all. The Wedgies and Wedge bass cabinets are a different story. Since they are open, everything is visible so everything has to be sanded and sealed. Also, the Wedgies have small parts where the underside and inside angles are just as important as the large flat areas and outside corners.
Bottom line, there is an awful lot of work involved in painting the Wedgies if you want that ultra smooth high gloss mirror finish. Add the cost of automotive finishes and, while still high, the cost no longer seems quite so insane.
Mike
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If the finish is well done those prices seem fine to me. Expensive material, respectable $90/hr shop time.
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And I'll bet at least 40% of that was for materials. Last I bought, a gallon of 2K primer was around $150. Clear was about same. Base coat was around $70 per pint. Then there's specific catalysts, reducers etc. not to mention pearls or other fun. It really adds up quick. It's actually part of what makes auto body work expensive.
I don't doubt that. I have a friend who restores cars, and he's always said that painting is very expensive, and he does his own work. For me, though, the cool factor of this type of paint doesn't outweigh the cost for speakers. I'd rather take that money, put it into a cheaper finish for the speakers and an amp. You can buy a pretty nice amp, used in particular, for that amount of money. Since these speakers are DIY primarily, it seems odd to save money by doing work yourself, then spend a ton on speaker finishes. But that's me.
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I don't doubt that. I have a friend who restores cars, and he's always said that painting is very expensive, and he does his own work. For me, though, the cool factor of this type of paint doesn't outweigh the cost for speakers. I'd rather take that money, put it into a cheaper finish for the speakers and an amp. You can buy a pretty nice amp, used in particular, for that amount of money. Since these speakers are DIY primarily, it seems odd to save money by doing work yourself, then spend a ton on speaker finishes. But that's me.
I hear you.. I've done the DIY route numerous times and have had very good results.
We wanted to make this pair stand out, we have some perspective clients that want to see a high quality, automotive finish and after sitting down with this painter, we felt this was the way to go. We were also looking for a painter we could work with in the futre and hopefully have found him..... this afternoon will tell
jay
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Those are cool speakers, but they have zero wife acceptance factor. Even I'm having a hard time justifying them. I do like Linkwitz, though. He's very scientific.
My wife loves the look of mine. :D
(http://i.imgur.com/Z5ymiy7.jpg)
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If saving money is the goal, then DIY. The price is you might have to learn something 8) .
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My wife loves the look of mine. :D
(http://i.imgur.com/Z5ymiy7.jpg)
Maybe there's a resemblance.... :D
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There are many different types and levels of finishes. Different people have different preferences, needs, desires, limitations, etc. The simplest finish is no finish at all just raw wood. From there the sky's the limit.
If you want a finish that is within your skill set and level of ability then you can still DIY it and save a lot of money. For example, the Santos Rosewood (Pau Ferro) veneer with a French Polish finish to the depth and luster of lacquer (think high end classical guitar) on my N3TL's only cost me a little over $400 in material. Of course there was also the 2-1/2 months of elbow grease nights and weekends to apply the approximately 500 coats of finish. If I paid somebody to do that it would have cost me about $2,800 ($800 for the veneer and $2,000 for the French Polish).
Could I have done it cheaper? Sure, there are lots of nice wood veneers for a lot less than $400/sheet but I wanted to have an heirloom quality piece of furniture my wife would love (she picked out the veneer) as well as a fantastic sounding pair of speakers.
However, a piano gloss finish with automotive paints is beyond my abilities. If I want that, I'm going to have to pay somebody else to do it.
Mike
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Maybe there's a resemblance.... :D
That makes little sense, but insulting nonetheless. Perhaps my wife just happens to be more caring and tolerant of my audio hobby than yours? Fortunate for me or unfortunate to you, depending on your perspective. :)
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Here are some pics of the painted cabinets, finding the color really doesn't come through on the computer and it really changes under different light and angles as we expected
An M165NQ being held in place (under flourescent lighting)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136329)
These are under more natural, halogen
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136336)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136331)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136332)
This one shows the glass like finish the painter achieved, the paint rep stopped by the guys shop and was impressed :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136333)
Exellent results this time using the painter. Taking the time to explain expectations and issues we had with Don's subs was worth it. Will be working with this guy more, he's taken an interest and wants to provide a great finish.
We may load up a set of drivers and grab a few more pics ....
jay
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Those look fantastic Jay, bet you can't wait to get them together. I used a very similar color on a pair of Xls speakers I haven't ever finished.
Can't wait to see those cabinets populated :thumb:
Greg
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Those look fantastic Jay, bet you can't wait to get them together. I used a very similar color on a pair of Xls speakers I haven't ever finished.
Can't wait to see those cabinets populated :thumb:
Greg
Yes, looking forward to it .
Those little X LS (Encores ? ) will really surprise you , they are amazing especailly considering their price point
jay
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A couple more pics
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136654)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136661)
The flash really screws the color up... if any of you have seen the NQ drivers it will give you an idea of just how much it's skewed in this pic
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136655)
jay
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I took the liberty to try and remove the colorcast. Hopefully, these are more true.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136664)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136665)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136661)
jay
Jay,
Wow... they came out beautiful.
Steve
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Nice looking finish Jay.
I haven't figured out how to get a camera to do justice to a speaker yet and that is after getting a decent DSLR.
Mike
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I took the liberty to try and remove the colorcast. Hopefully, these are more true.
thanks jzexport
Both somewhat better, the top one looks closer than the bottom one.
Steve & Mike, yeah, I'm very happy, I wish I could do a better job withthe camera to show them better.
One more I took when watching the tube late last ngiht. compoter monitor behind was on too
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136683)
jay
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Nice looking finish Jay.
I haven't figured out how to get a camera to do justice to a speaker yet and that is after getting a decent DSLR.
Mike
Built in flashes on cameras almost always suck when faced with shiny reflective surfaces. You don't necessarily need a DSLR, but do need something that shoots in low light which means large aperture/fast lens. That way you can shoot with ambient light and get away from all that glare.
Almost without exception the more recent photos I post here are shot without flash with a compact Panasonic LX7. I bought it specifically for it's ability to shoot in low light and wide angle capability which is needed for pics of remodels. I was tempted by the gadgetry and associated complexity of DSLR, but in the end I made the right choice for me. FWIW, it's capability certainly exceeds my ability to use all it's functionality.
I so want to hear these.
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Peter, trust me, it's not the camera :lol:
I've been using my Panasonic FZ30, older than your LX7 but at one point was the flaghsip. It is capable and if I actually took the time to review /re-learn everything, you guys would all be seeing much better pimages, unfortunately it's just not high on my priority list
I so want to hear these.
I hear you !!
jay
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Jay,
What is the plan for the crossover?
You have a lot more self control than I do... at this point of the project I would be up until 3am wiring them up. :D
Steve
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Jay,
What is the plan for the crossover?
You have a lot more self control than I do... at this point of the project I would be up until 3am wiring them up. :D
Steve
The networks will soon be finalized by Danny.
This pair and a pair we sent Danny were the 2nd run. Assembling the pair here we discovered a couple things that needed to be addrsssed, Danny will let us know soon if there is anything else we need to look at before proceeding with more runs.
My self control is not that good either Steve, why do you think I loaded up one of those cabinets with drivers ? !
jay
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I just did a dry fit of all the parts for this flat pack. These flat packs are REALLY nice.
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Okay, I have a pair of these up and playing now. Just a couple of hours on them but man these things are stunning. I'll come back with details, but for now I might have a new favorite. They do some things better than the Super-7's. Just, wow!
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Remember this am when I said I was anxious to hear your thoughts once you had the pair up and running (not just a single) ? This is great to hear :thumb:
jay
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That is really great news! I just knew they were going to be something special. Anxious to read Danny's detailed report as to how they sound.
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I did some listening yesterday and decided the lower tweeter range sounded a little forward and a bit too sharp. So I changed the shape of the slope a little and brought the lower tweeter range down just a little. Then I shifted the M-165NQ's up a hair. The crossover point came up a hair to 1,340Hz. They are smooth as glass now. I think I have nailed it.
And the lower side panels definitely need some No Rez.
Now to add up some totals and get a cost for everything....
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So how many pair of these will be sold? It started off at 10 pairs and
last I saw that became 6 pairs.
And if there were any pre-sales that number will be lower still.
These will be an exclusive speaker, that's for sure.
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the 6 pairs were the NX-Tremes... AFAIK, still 10 pairs of the Ottica's will be sold, not sure what, If any, have been pre ordered.
jay
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I guess when I read the original post I thought Danny only got 10 pairs of
tweeters. Guess it was a little more than that.
Boy would it ever be a great time for somebody to find a cache of Neo3's :D
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Jay,
Would just the top MTM section be possible?
One way I could think of would be for the person who wants this configuration to take the whole flat pack and cut the sides and baffle down and cut a new bottom piece. There would be a lot of waste this way unless they thought they might build out the bottom section at a later time.
The other would be to only cut the MTM section in the first place. This may not be feasible from a programming standpoint for the NX-Otica unless it would only take a minor tweak to switch from the Neo waveguide to the Peerless cutout for use with the X-Otica also.
I'm thinking about the case of limited real estate for speaker set up. For instance, my listening room is 13'9" x 10'2". I currently have the Wedgies on top of the 12" Wedge Bass units. They are 3' off the front wall, 6' apart and about 4' off the side walls. The LP is 7' in front of the speakers and right up against the back wall. If I were to put a full size pair of NX-Oticas along this wall with a pair of H-frames flanking them, keeping the NX-Oticas 6' apart, the subs would fit with about 2' to the side walls if placed right next to the NX-Oticas (or 1' between speaker and sub and 1' between sub and side wall).
If I oriented off the short wall, with the H-Frames almost touching the side walls and the NX-Oticas almost touching the H-Frames the Otica's would be about 5' apart. With the speakers 3' off the front wall, if the LP were positioned 7' away from the speakers there would be 3' between the LP and the rear wall.
I guess the questions are (1) what is the minimum size room for properly setting up a full size pair of the NX-Oticas along with a pair of 12" H-frames and have the listening position far enough away from the speakers to get the full effect? and (2) is just the MTM section a feasible possibility for a smaller room?
Mike
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Mike, exellent ?'s , I can't help yo with all of them but I can help with a couple things
As there are a very limited # of tweeters available, it's not really worth doing an MTM design with them. Now, there may be guys who have a set of Neo's or a speaker that is already using them which they might be willing to pull them out of , in that case, cutting the top MZTM section off may be an option..... I actually have a few extra baffles that we had some minor issues with. they won't get used for full Otticas but they could be made into MTM's easily enough. Problem with that is after cutting the MTM section off, you have very little (.25") below the lower NQ, we'd almost have to cut you a new pair of baffles with more room below that woofer. Even with those, you'd have to get a network from Danny as youi'd be needing a 2 way network, something youi'd have to discuss with Danny.
We are planning to do some X-Otticas at some point if anyone expresses interest. It is a bit more than just removing the waveguide and chaning the tweeter cutout. The MTM section needs to be tightened up by an inch keeping it as tight as possible for the higher c/o point , you can gain that by removing the waveguide and switching to the Peerless cutout/recess. This in turn shortens the cabinet by an inch as well so the wings have to be shortened and the notch for the open Neo 3 needs to be removed. With regards to an MTM, the same appies as I noted above....cutting the top section off will "work" but you really need to just cut a new baffle or you end up with very litle material below the lower NQ.
My room is only about 12' wide but it is 18' deep. I'm lucky as the room actually sounds very good. I have everything on the short wall which leaves my subs up against the side walls and my mains a bit closer together than I'd like but it is what I have to work with. I'm still trying to figure out how to make triples fit, I just love the added weight especailly at lower levels which I listen to a lot.
jay
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Jay,
Your room is considerably larger than mine. Your short wall is almost the same as my long wall. There had been some mention of an MTM section previously and I think I remember Danny saying that the crossover for the MTM section would be the same whether it was in the full speaker or stand alone. I could easily have misunderstood that though.
Maybe Danny can chime in on the minimum room size and distances needed for a complete setup.
Thanks
Mike
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I hear you regarding the room size, , I realize it's considerably larger, wasn't trying to imply otherwise. Was trying to make the point that at 12' wide, it is not ideal, would be nice to have it a bit wider so I totally understand what you were saying as as one way you are slightly wider, the other narrower.
Yes, I recall the same post(s), I believe it was in the X-Ottica thread Danny started and I posted some pics of a mode I did for a possible MTM section using the Peerless tweeter. IIFC, Danny was refering to the MTM measurements he had done without the bass ection, so yeah, it will work, I just thought the network would need to be altered a bit to let the NQ's roll of naturally or even a little filter added in a 2 way design but I could be mistaken ?
jay
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Watching this thread with interest, I too would be interested in an MTM section. While not ideal, I could share the tweeter from my Wedgie.
Best,
Ed
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Jay,
Ok I get what you are saying about the room.
Now that you mention it, I think it was the X-Otica thread about the MTM only section.
Mike
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Jay,
Ok I get what you are saying about the room.
Now that you mention it, I think it was the X-Otica thread about the MTM only section.
Mike
Yeah, its here
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138007.60
post 70 and a few below
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Danny, how are these kits coming along? Any further tweaks?
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Danny, how are these kits coming along? Any further tweaks?
They are done, and they are incredible.
I was just waiting for Jay and Don to have the flat packs on hand and ready to ship and I am going to announce the NX-Otica as ready for shipping.
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I just read Tyson's post on the Super 7 and wonder how these models compare.
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Well, I have them side by side and I'm using the sub-woofer section of the Super-7 with the NX-Otica until a get a dedicated sub-woofer section for it.
The NX-Otica actually has a few areas that I like better than the Super-7's. For one, the tweeter plays much lower in the wave guide on the NX-Otica than the Super-7. 1,300Hz verse 2500Hz. So the off axis response is better in each direction. The NX-Otica really maintains a great off axis response especially in the vertical off axis. They stay super consistent over a wide range.
The smaller baffle width also gives the NX-Otica a slight advantage in imaging.
And with all those woofers covering down to the lower crossover point around 90Hz to 100Hz or so, there is more body and more feel of impact around drums.
And while the Neo 10 has to be one of the fastest and best sound drivers ever to cover the human vocal range I actually lean a little towards the M-165NQ's. They really don't give anything up. Some of this could be the lower crossover point to the tweeter, but I really don't fell like anything in that range went away. There is still a lot of speed and clarity through that range. The NQ drivers really are that good.
And the lower crossover point to the servo subs makes integrating them real easy.
These things are a home run.
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Thanks, Danny. Great to know.
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Don is on the road all this week so we are looking at a week Wed fora probable day for a first shipment. He'd be able to take take 4 or 5 pairs of Otticas if need be.
We're looking at approx 2 weeks after that for a another run as he is on the road with work every 2nd week . Might be able to get 1 additional trip between those depending on his work / family scheduale
Forgot to mentin, these flat packs will be shipped out of Oroville WA or the Okanagan Valley if a Canadian customer, either way it will be domestic for customers on both sides of the border
jay
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So what is the final pricing on these two models?
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Danny-
I know you got a lot going on with the new property but was wondering if you or somebody else would be presenting these NX-Otica speakers and any upcoming shows this year?
-Tom
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So what is the final pricing on these two models?
Give Danny a ring
jay
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Danny-
I know you got a lot going on with the new property but was wondering if you or somebody else would be presenting these NX-Otica speakers and any upcoming shows this year?
-Tom
My only issue with showing with them is that they a limited number of them are going to be released based on the limited number of tweeters. And as soon as I officially release them they may go pretty quick.
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Final pricing is $2,199. That will include everything needed for the kit, all crossover parts, drivers, wire, tube connectors etc. And it included six sheets of No Rez. It also includes the flat pack that is all CNC cut and fits together great. It does not include shipping cost on anything.
I also recommend the dual SW-12-08FR woofers and A370PEQ amps to go with them.
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I also recommend the dual SW-12-08FR woofers and A370PEQ amps to go with them.
If yo uhaven't seen the thread...
CNC'd flat packs for the above
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139480.0
jay
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Nice to see that the NX-Otica is now a reality and ready to ship! It sounds like another winner! Congrats!
I was wondering about the other model mentioned in the title of this thread- the NX-Treme. Is it still under consideration/development, or no longer part of the future? (I'm assuming the shortage of Neo's has taken it's toll)
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Nice to see that the NX-Otica is now a reality and ready to ship! It sounds like another winner! Congrats!
I was wondering about the other model mentioned in the title of this thread- the NX-Treme. Is it still under consideration/development, or no longer part of the future? (I'm assuming the shortage of Neo's has taken it's toll)
hey SoCalWJS
I've actually just finished the 2D drawing for the NX-Tremes. Going to be programmed for cutting soon them we'll get a pair assembled up here and a pair off to Danny to make sure the packs are good. Working on them !!
jay
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hey SoCalWJS
I've actually just finished the 2D drawing for the NX-Tremes. Going to be programmed for cutting soon them we'll get a pair assembled up here and a pair off to Danny to make sure the packs are good. Working on them !!
jay
Cool! Glad to hear they're still coming along.
Thanks!
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Ron tried to keep everything back a bit to keep some distance from the magnet on the lowest woofer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139428)
jay
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It is definitley something we'll lookinto. The wings will fint into the baffle and meet the roundover at 10 degrees.
jay
have I understood this correctly; the V of the wings is 10 degrees away from being at right angles to the baffle?
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have I understood this correctly; the V of the wings is 10 degrees away from being at right angles to the baffle?
Yes.
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have I understood this correctly; the V of the wings is 10 degrees away from being at right angles to the baffle?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136151)
jay
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Thanks
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hey folks,
Sorry for the delay in getting these going, first couple pairs were just cut, we're getting a pair out to Danny ASAP.
Here's a few pics
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143289)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143292)
They do have a presence 8)
jay
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They do have a presence 8)
jay
Yes they do! Wow :o, nice job Jay, that's a lot of speaker! I like it :thumb:.
Best,
Ed
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+1 :green:
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Hi Jay,
usualy monsters are ungly,
but this monster in size is beautiful...
Nice job.
Guy 13
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Thanks guys, been lots of delays getting to this point with the cabinets.
Really anxious to get a pair to Danny so he can work his magic and make his kits available :thumb:
jay
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Nice work Jay. They look great ! Anxious to see pictures of the finished speakers and a report on how they sound.
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Nice work Jay. They look great ! Anxious to see pictures of the finished speakers and a report on how they sound.
Same here!! Keep us posted! :D
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Jay,
Those are not small speakers, are they?
I really look forward to listening to them in late August when Melody and I are in the area again. :D We ought to arrive in/near Kelowna by the 23rd or 24th, and stay for up to one week.
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Jay,
Those are not small speakers, are they?
I really look forward to listening to them in late August when Melody and I are in the area again. :D We ought to arrive in/near Kelowna by the 23rd or 24th, and stay for up to one week.
Hey Michael
Looking forward to seeing the both of you. Should be anotyher fun evening (hopefully evenings) !
Yeah, they are big but also pretty sleek looking.
I know I'm short but that cabinet makes me look 3' tall , I'm not quie that short :lol:
jay
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You're no Hobbit, Jay. You're taller than my father-in-law. :)
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Jay, those look amazing! I had no idea they would be that big.
Are these going to play any lower than their little brother, or are we still going to need the servo subs with them? I'm guessing the latter.
The cool thing is people can buy and build everything and save a ton of money, and get a top of the line speaker to boot.
Way to go Jay!
-
I am confused. Is this tall piece of heaven the NX-Otica or the NX-Treme?
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I am confused. Is this tall piece of heaven the NX-Otica or the NX-Treme?
This one is the NX-Treme cabinet, it has 4 M165NQ's for mids and 6 M165's for the low end woofers vs the NX-Ottica which has 2 NQ's for the mids and 4 M165's for the lows.
Greg, still going to need the servo subs.. I believe these will roll off at the same point a the Otticas. Should be a boost in efficiency to 95-96 db .... Danny will be able to help more with regards to that
jay
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Here's a pair glued up and some initial prep work done
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143517)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143518)
jay
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Here's a pair glued up and some initial prep work done
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143517)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143518)
jay
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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No way could I ever fit those in my house but it is fun watching :thumb:
Mike
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So Jay, what is the height on these? Looks like about 8' or more depending on how tall you really are.
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No way could I ever fit those in my house but it is fun watching :thumb:
Mike
Nor can I Mike , thankfully Don lives fairly close by !
So Jay, what is the height on these? Looks like about 8' or more depending on how tall you really are.
7' Gregg
jay
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Nor can I Mike , thankfully Don lives fairly close by !
7' Gregg
jay
Wow Jay, the way the picture looks you are about 4 foot tall. Michael said you're no Hobbit (which I'm a huge fan by he way) so it's deceptive how big they look.
You really did a great job of making these look elegant and not too bulky. They are really a nice looking design and I look forward to seeing a pair finished. Still trying to figure out how to swing a pair, you told me the best idea awhile back but that might be hard to convince a certain other person in the house.
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Wow Jay, the way the picture looks you are about 4 foot tall. Michael said you're no Hobbit (which I'm a huge fan by he way) so it's deceptive how big they look.
You really did a great job of making these look elegant and not too bulky. They are really a nice looking design and I look forward to seeing a pair finished. Still trying to figure out how to swing a pair, you told me the best idea awhile back but that might be hard to convince a certain other person in the house.
Thanks Greg :) In person they look more slender... once we had one glued up, Don and I were commenting on how the extrta height makes the wings seem so much narrower. Proportions can really change the appearence
The original NX-Ottica prototype didn't have the 3 deree tilt, that was Danny's idea. After that, it was a matter of playing with the lines and getting it all to look " right'n That open side wing went through numerous phases.
Yes, that pic is somewhat deceiving, it's on a bit of angle so the cabinet is actually more in the foreground than I. That being said, after all the health issues and a couple years in wheelchair,I actually shrunk 6' and am now 5'..... I haven't had my height measured for a while, maybe I am still shrinking :o
I've heard that certain vacation destinations can sometimes be convincing to "other peple" :wink:
jay
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That's pretty cool, Jay. Not petite, eh?
I think it's the kind of thing only an audio geek can love... gonna kind of dominate the landscape of the room they live in!
I can hear it now "oh honey, you'll get used to them" or perhaps "can I stick a potted plant in that shelf thingie in the back"
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Hi, newbie here (second post). I was trying to view the measurements for the NX-Otica on the first page of this thread. Are others able to see all the posted pictures? I know some forums limit your ability to see all the pictures, but wanted to check if those who have been hanging around the forum for longer are able to access those measurement pictures, as the website points you directly to this forum for the measurements.
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Hi, newbie here (second post). I was trying to view the measurements for the NX-Otica on the first page of this thread. Are others able to see all the posted pictures? I know some forums limit your ability to see all the pictures, but wanted to check if those who have been hanging around the forum for longer are able to access those measurement pictures, as the website points you directly to this forum for the measurements.
It's not just you. They don't show up for me either and I'm pretty sure I have enough posts :D
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I believe they disappeared around the same time that danny retired his old email server, so I'm guessing thats where they were stored and why they've all vanished from so many development threads.
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They were all my images and were in my gallery but seem to have vanished, maybe due to storage limits ?
All the NX series speakers are 8.5" wide.... NX Otica's are 53.5" tall , NX-Treme's are 83.5" tall, NX Studio's are just under 17" tall
The NX-Otica and NX-Treme wings angle back at 10 degrees
jay
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Ok roger that thanks for the quick replies! I'll just trust that they are an awesome pair of loudspeakers for now, and those curves, unlike the earth, are probably pretty flat. Globe head here! Probably some folks might hesitate to pull the trigger on that kind of expense without seeing the measured responses, but that doesn't seem to be slowing things down at all, rather the fancy tweeter production!
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If you were looking for frequency responses, those would not have come from my gallery but from Danny, and yes, maybe the disappearence did have something to do with the old site being upgraded.
The responses are very good and both Otica and Treme have exellent off axis responses. The NX-Otica comes in around 92 db and the NX-Treme arouind 94 db sensitivity
jay
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We are still working on a way to upload all of the pictures and images that I posted so that the links find them all without me having to re-load all of them.
If you were looking for frequency responses, those would not have come from my gallery but from Danny, and yes, maybe the disappearence did have something to do with the old site being upgraded.
The responses are very good and both Otica and Treme have exellent off axis responses. The NX-Otica comes in around 92 db and the NX-Treme arouind 94 db sensitivity
jay
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They were all my images and were in my gallery but seem to have vanished, maybe due to storage limits ?
All the NX series speakers are 8.5" wide.... NX Otica's are 53.5" tall , NX-Treme's are 83.5" tall, NX Studio's are just under 17" tall
The NX-Otica and NX-Treme wings angle back at 10 degrees
jay
What is the depth of the NX-Treme's (specifically the depth of the wings)?
Thanks