What is the attraction of low output in expensive carts?

nathanm · « **on:** 27 Apr 2003, 10:51 pm »

I've noticed that some of those super-expensive moving coil cartridges out there seem to have really tiny millivolt outputs. What is the benefit of this? To me that means that the cart is supplying an even weaker signal that needs more and more electronics to raise the gain up to useful levels. I would think this would make for a worse signal to noise ratio wouldn't it? Any ideas?

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Apr 2003, 03:08 am »

Nathan,
low output moving coils are designed to sound great first and the low output is just a consequence of that. I believe it's a matter of how many windings are in the coils. There are some moving coils like the Dynavector 20XX that are available in either high or low output: it's thought that increasing the output compromises the sound ever so slightly.

I tried to find some knowledgeable site that would verify what I just said, but was unsuccessful. I DID find the following post on Audio Asylum--

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=vinyl&n=104422&highlight=Low+output+vs+high&session=

JoshK · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Apr 2003, 03:08 pm »

Great question Nathan! I have often wondered the same thing. I think I concluded like Tonto has that it is a belief that the lower outputs compromise the sound less. This begs the question that you raised of whether the added gain stages murder any potential extra you are getting from the lower output cartridge.

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Apr 2003, 05:15 pm »

Josh,
I think I read the info I posted somewhere (or several places) but I can no longer put my finger on that source.

I suspect that guys buying the very expensive MC carts can afford the phono stages of similar quality that can amplify the signal with the least problems.

nathanm · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Apr 2003, 05:52 pm »

Perhaps it works similar to high efficiency speakers, in that you are gaining in one sonic attribute but compromising in another. I have a Benz ACE and since they offered it in three different output voltages I was in a quandary about what that meant. So after extensive delibaration and careful research I ummm...picked the one in the middle!

Luckily my phono pre has adjustable gain, which is really nice to balance the phono channel with the CD channel.

reyneman · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 May 2003, 06:19 pm »

Sorry for such a late post, especially since I may not have the correct info (as you can see, I rarely post), but this is what I am culling from memory. Also, this reply may not be what I believe, only what I have seen elsewhere.

The supposed advantage of an MC cartridge is less moving mass- not the weight of the cartridge overall, but the weight of the stylus assembly. By moving small coils of wire rather than chunks of magnetic material available at the time, the stylus could more accurately track the high freq grooves (don't confuse this with tracking warped records- only the 'bumps' formed by the cutting head).

Obviously, as in all things 'audiophile', this has been taken to further extremes- if less is better, even less is 'more better'

I believe this is what drives the extremely low output cart- 'mostest less' must be the best!

Personally, I think there is a scientifically valid basis to being able to control less mass more easily, but whether the smaller percentages of overall moving mass coming from the reduction of the few coils is worthwhile could be debatable.

Like you, I have a Benz. My choice was based on which output my pre would accept.