DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range

davidavdavid · « **Reply #100 on:** 15 Nov 2016, 04:37 pm »

An exhausting not exhaustive thread. Lots to read through. A fair number of DACs have been mentioned and having slogged through the purchase process 3 years ago, just might be time to re-visit. My current DAC of choice is the exaSound e22 which I like a great deal. In this 3 year period many new models have appeared most of which at less cost/more economical price points. $2000 ball park is just about where I'd place the ceiling.

Am curious about the new Benchmark DAC-3. Not particularly interested in chasing MQA's tail and having lived in London, England these past 4 years have been in the company of quite a few CHORD DACs and was not particularly impressed. Neither a fan of the MOJO/HUGO/2QUTE and for what it is worth the "DAVE" is ridiculously $$$$$$$

I will make it a point to audition an Exogal Comet Plus

Some surprises along the way

Fostex's HP-A4 is a hidden headphone amp/DAC gem
Parasound's Halo 2.1 integrated amplifier sports an impressive PCM/DSD DAC

and out of left field, way out left field, if you're looking for a sub $100 DAC to connect to your computer:
http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/Sabre-9018-DAC

Beatles · « **Reply #101 on:** 20 Nov 2016, 06:43 pm »

Quote from: AmpDesigner333 on 11 Nov 2016, 03:57 pm

A little known fact: analog volume control on a DAC means bringing the signals down to single ended, plus one or two additional buffer stages. I just don't understand what some people have against digital attenuation, which allows elimination of added dynamic-range compromising circuitry in the signal path.

Absolute total bullshit bullshit.

toddbagwell · « **Reply #102 on:** 20 Nov 2016, 08:38 pm »

Beatles, please keep it civil.

AmpDesigner333 · « **Reply #103 on:** 29 Nov 2016, 07:16 pm »

While looking at the last demo DAC DAC HS in stock, I thought "something I wished for"....

During the holidays each year, I typically buy myself an "audio gift", and for a few years, my gift was a new DAC. However, I was disappointed in the sound quality sub-$1000. This was motivation to make something significantly better. I wasn't interested in fancy features. I just wanted great sound, but felt like the money was going toward the wrong things, such as a pretty display. I know, some people are more interested in showing their friends what they bought than actually sitting down and listening.

In case you haven't seen the "anti-audiophile guy" thread on here (this guy probably thinks all DACs are the same):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138307.0

I think we can all agree that the DAC holds a very special place in your audio system!

firedog · « **Reply #104 on:** 30 Nov 2016, 07:58 am »

Quote from: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Nov 2016, 07:16 pm

While looking at the last demo DAC DAC HS in stock, I thought "something I wished for"....

During the holidays each year, I typically buy myself an "audio gift", and for a few years, my gift was a new DAC. However, I was disappointed in the sound quality sub-$1000. This was motivation to make something significantly better. I wasn't interested in fancy features.

I personally think iFi and TEAC make very good DACs in the sub $1000 range. I think you have to spend significantly above $1000 to get a better DAC than theirs.

JLM · « **Reply #105 on:** 30 Nov 2016, 11:26 am »

Right now IME the hot DAC is the $799 Oppo Sonica (scheduled to be released next month). Basically a HA-1 without headphone amp but with the new ESS ES9038PRO SABRE chip.

mav52 · « **Reply #106 on:** 30 Nov 2016, 01:01 pm »

Under $2k, Ayre Codex.

mr_bill · « **Reply #107 on:** 30 Nov 2016, 02:52 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 30 Nov 2016, 11:26 am

Right now IME the hot DAC is the $799 Oppo Sonica (scheduled to be released next month). Basically a HA-1 without headphone amp but with the new ESS ES9038PRO SABRE chip.

Agreed: Streamer, Tidal, new pro ESS chips and can read a connected hard drive too, $799 - Sonica,

Also check out newly announced ifi black label idsd.

jarcher · « **Reply #108 on:** 1 Dec 2016, 01:10 am »

It ain't all just about the DAC chip, ladies and gents - implementation is a big part of the equation! Nonetheless I reserve comment until actually hearing it.

I will say that I do like the tidal implementation in the oppo media control app. USB & network playback, search and other general functionality does leave something to be desired though. I've had lock ups as well requiring hard restarts. Hopefully all this will be addressed with the new firmware and software when the sonica comes out.

AmpDesigner333 · « **Reply #109 on:** 1 Dec 2016, 07:53 pm »

Quote from: jarcher on 1 Dec 2016, 01:10 am

It ain't all just about the DAC chip, ladies and gents - implementation is a big part of the equation! Nonetheless I reserve comment until actually hearing it.

Definitely agree. The output stage can be built many different ways, and most DACs are simply a regurgitation of the chip maker's reference design. Beware of the cheap stuff since that typically means cost reduction through component substitution. Precision parts tend to be expensive. Other red flags include widespread expensive advertising - the end customer pays for that, plus overhead, plus whatever marketing costs are involved. You're likely to get a better deal from small, lesser known companies than the guys spending millions on advertising. Even worse, buying from a dealer that DOUBLES the price. If you find yourself saying "how do they do it so cheap", referring to what seems like lots of hardware for the money (Oppo, etc.), remember these companies are in this business to make a profit, and if it's cheap, it's cheap.

jtwrace · « **Reply #110 on:** 1 Dec 2016, 08:18 pm »

Quote from: AmpDesigner333 on 1 Dec 2016, 07:53 pm

remember these companies are in this business to make a profit, and if it's cheap, it's cheap.

Last time I checked it's called a business since turning a profit is the name of the game.

jarcher · « **Reply #111 on:** 2 Dec 2016, 04:20 am »

Quote from: AmpDesigner333 on 1 Dec 2016, 07:53 pm

Definitely agree. The output stage can be built many different ways, and most DACs are simply a regurgitation of the chip maker's reference design. Beware of the cheap stuff since that typically means cost reduction through component substitution. Precision parts tend to be expensive. Other red flags include widespread expensive advertising - the end customer pays for that, plus overhead, plus whatever marketing costs are involved. You're likely to get a better deal from small, lesser known companies than the guys spending millions on advertising. Even worse, buying from a dealer that DOUBLES the price. If you find yourself saying "how do they do it so cheap", referring to what seems like lots of hardware for the money (Oppo, etc.), remember these companies are in this business to make a profit, and if it's cheap, it's cheap.

Oppo's dealer margins are like 10%, so no Oppo dealers laughing to the bank there......

But do agree 100% that "if it's cheap, it's cheap". Goes for internet factory direct brands as well : even with no dealers it costs money to have people man phones, fulfill orders, advertising, etc. They may be able to obtain some economies of scale such as using one or few cases for products (e.g. Shiit), but overall if it's much cheaper it's probably because they are cutting corners on parts or casework. They also have to turn a decent profit, and going direct means less potential sales than an extensive dealer network, so that per piece margin probably needs to be higher as well.

The good stuff costs money - as does selling it, however you choose to do it. What was that about no free lunches.......?

AmpDesigner333 · « **Reply #112 on:** 2 Dec 2016, 03:31 pm »

Quote from: jarcher on 2 Dec 2016, 04:20 am

Oppo's dealer margins are like 10%, so no Oppo dealers laughing to the bank there......

I did some research, and can't confirm the exact number, but did confirm that Oppo's margins are ultra low, which is an incentive for dealers to push other brands. Another good point from you! I appreciate your feedback very much. Sending you a PM.... Thanks (:

Tyson · « **Reply #113 on:** 2 Dec 2016, 05:25 pm »

Just an FYI, I'll have an iFi Black iDSD unit in my hands in the next few days. Just as context, I like the old/original silver iDSD better than any other DAC I heard up to the Vega at $3500. I'm hoping the Black is a significant improvement on the Silver.

jtwrace · « **Reply #114 on:** 2 Dec 2016, 06:50 pm »

Quote from: Tyson on 2 Dec 2016, 05:25 pm

Just an FYI, I'll have an iFi Black iDSD unit in my hands in the next few days. Just as context, I like the old/original silver iDSD better than any other DAC I heard up to the Vega at $3500. I'm hoping the Black is a significant improvement on the Silver.

Took you long enough!

rajacat · « **Reply #115 on:** 2 Dec 2016, 06:58 pm »

I just bought one these R2R DACs. It's offered at 3 levels. It'll be a couple weeks before its delivered. I bought the level 2 on Black Friday for ~$1500. I doubt the it will offered at this price again. The Level 3 is about $2600. The L1 is currently being offered @$1400. This DAC is one of the latest hotties over on Head FI. http://www.head-fi.org/t/810065/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac
It received a rave review on Computer Audiophile by Audio Circles' High Rez Circle facilitor teb b . http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/722-holo-audio-spring-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition-r2r-dac-review/

Quote

Patented R2R technology. This is the first discrete DAC that has linear compensation and this allows for ultimate music reproduction accuracy. Dual R2R network for PCM, and Dual R2R network for DSD!

[/i]
With the addition of a Singxer SU1 digital interface it'll do OS DSD510!

?

srb · « **Reply #116 on:** 2 Dec 2016, 07:19 pm »

Beautiful clean layout.

Curiousity question - If those are in fact through-panel hex nuts retaining the RCA and BNC jacks, how is the second nut installed on the rather closely spaced Coax1/Coax2 jack group?

Steve

rajacat · « **Reply #117 on:** 2 Dec 2016, 07:23 pm »

Quote from: srb on 2 Dec 2016, 07:19 pm

Beautiful clean layout.

Curiousity question - If those are in fact through-panel hex nuts retaining the RCA and BNC jacks, how is the second nut installed on the rather closely spaced Coax1/Coax2 jack group?

Steve

Those are probably not nuts but machined integral to the jack. IOW just one nut is used.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #118 on:** 2 Dec 2016, 10:21 pm »

Oppo dealer margins are over 10%,,,,,but not much. This is why you will never see an Oppo discounted......and if a dealer advertised it lower than retail then Oppo would drop them in a second. Remember, Oppo also sells direct....so they would not want a dealer underselling them. Oppo has the highest resale value of any product that I have ever seen. What they do is ridiculously good. They do use some junk parts in some places and they are not tweakers but the basic engineering is fantastic and they can be modded to the cow's come home.

You want to see value.....then look at Gustard, LKS and other Chinese products. These guys are great engineers and the parts quality and production quality of these things (not to mention the sound quality) is though the roof good. Basically, they are selling $3000+ products for under $1000. Check out the pics of these products insides and compare them to other US made DACs under $4000......you will be surprised.

wharfrat · « **Reply #119 on:** 2 Dec 2016, 10:34 pm »

Quote from: mav52 on 30 Nov 2016, 01:01 pm

Under $2k, Ayre Codex.

I agree!
Am using it with a Cambridge transport and a Auralic music server and the presentation is stunning in both.