Martin Logan Review CLX's

werd · « **Reply #80 on:** 6 Jun 2009, 09:15 pm »

Quote from: DEV on 6 Jun 2009, 08:20 pm

WOW! I just went on that forum and read the entire thread which is now closed, it seems that Tonepub got the last words in.

I'm not affiliated with any audio related business what so ever, this is just a hobby for me. Allot of the negative information written by Tonepub and he really is a reviewer right?, what he wrote obviously only demonstrates to me at least he is not a reviewer I would trust and seems to have issues. When he mentions he has heard the latest Bryston amps and that they are thin sounding etc. along with also mentioning in one of his threads that the Torus product was not comparable to others he had mentioned makes me only laugh. This really does sum it all up for me, when someone makes such "BOLD" statements which are far from being accurate well I guess says it all and demonstrates his "LACK OF CREDIBILITY", he put his own foot in his mouth, actually both.

If I ever happen to come upon a review with his name attached I will discredit and move on.

I have been in this hobby for along time, cost does not really mater to me, it's the end result that only maters, refer to my thread "28B SST SQ mono block tube life?" the Bryston 28's are not thin sounding by any means and the Torus units are very nice paired up.

I know... he is absolutely full of BS. He took no time at all in blaming Bryston. He seemed to be insulted somehow by Danman's post of Jame's initial experience with the CLXs. Like Bryston has no business being on the ML's site. It was like he had to admit to Bryston's stellar rep but didnt want anyone to buy ML/Bryston combo. As far as not liking the Torus just shows to me that he's totally bias against anything associated with Bryston. Right there it became obvious.... as the Torus whether you like Bryston or not is stellar. Definetely worth merit even if you prefer other brands. He has infected that ML site with his bias.

vegasdave · « **Reply #81 on:** 7 Jun 2009, 01:14 am »

In my opinion, Tonepub (real name: Jeff Dorgay) is a quack. I've gone "toe to toe" with him on another board, when I call him out on his quackery. Not only that he's biased against Bryston.

James, you might wanna watch out for this guy. I don't think he poses a threat to Bryston Ltd, however, his words on forums like these can be damaging to an extent. He does have a following, and his words are false and misleading.

Do I like the guy? I can't say, having never met him. Do I like what he says? Hell no.

James Tanner · « **Reply #82 on:** 7 Jun 2009, 02:29 pm »

Hi All,

OK time to move on.

I am going to order a pair of the Martin Logan Descent i Subs and do some more playing around.

http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_intro/descent_i.html

james

vegasdave · « **Reply #83 on:** 7 Jun 2009, 05:07 pm »

Great idea. Sounds good.

danman · « **Reply #84 on:** 7 Jun 2009, 07:41 pm »

Yup...........Since I started this, I would also like to finish it. Let's go in a different direction now. We have proven our point and people like that will always exists no matter what we say or do.

Oh man..........now you are going to get the 2 most wonderful subs there is for ML's! Can't wait to hear your impressions but this time we will leave them here!!!!haha! Seriously, I am looking forward to what you think because it is really hard to match a sub with them and I have read (yes on that site!) that they are the best for ML's.

James Tanner · « **Reply #85 on:** 7 Jun 2009, 10:52 pm »

Quote from: danman on 7 Jun 2009, 07:41 pm

Yup...........Since I started this, I would also like to finish it. Let's go in a different direction now. We have proven our point and people like that will always exists no matter what we say or do.

Oh man..........now you are going to get the 2 most wonderful subs there is for ML's! Can't wait to hear your impressions but this time we will leave them here!!!!haha! Seriously, I am looking forward to what you think because it is really hard to match a sub with them and I have read (yes on that site!) that they are the best for ML's.

Hi danman,

Yes I really have mixed feelings about getting the subs. I am getting a good 40-45Hz with the panels on their own in my room and I don't want to screw that up.

Have you seen any reviews on the subs being used with the CLX's?

james

danman · « **Reply #86 on:** 7 Jun 2009, 11:00 pm »

Sorry to say but only one and you know who that came from

Did you not use them in Montreal or did I misunderstand?

James Tanner · « **Reply #87 on:** 7 Jun 2009, 11:41 pm »

Quote from: danman on 7 Jun 2009, 11:00 pm

Sorry to say but only one and you know who that came from

Did you not use them in Montreal or did I misunderstand?

HI Dan,

Yes we had a pair in Montreal and in that big a room it was really necessary. We tried a number of A'B's and the sound really thinned out with the Subs off. We ran the CLX's fullrange and just used the Subs to fill in.

In my smaller room I am just concerned I end up with lower more powerful bass but less coherence.

james

danman · « **Reply #88 on:** 7 Jun 2009, 11:56 pm »

I see. I think it is going to be hard to answer your question until you try it. I suppose you could maybe arrange a loaner maybe to find out? Be a shame to buy them and not like the sound but maybe you can arrange something.

I can bet that they sound pretty good as they are but these subs are made by ML so maybe they will surprise you.

I am only using a small SVS (actually, quite impressive for 1000$) but I also don't have full range electrostatics. I have it dialed in pretty well as you cannot actually hear it but more feel it if that makes sense?

I received the newer technology stators this week for my speakers and have been running them in. I am very impressed so far with a very big audible difference. I can now really hear the full quality of the 4B-SST2's highs and mids........much different from my older panels! Best amp I have used with these speakers by far!

James Tanner · « **Reply #89 on:** 8 Jun 2009, 12:34 am »

Quote from: danman on 7 Jun 2009, 11:56 pm

I see. I think it is going to be hard to answer your question until you try it. I suppose you could maybe arrange a loaner maybe to find out? Be a shame to buy them and not like the sound but maybe you can arrange something.

I can bet that they sound pretty good as they are but these subs are made by ML so maybe they will surprise you.

I am only using a small SVS (actually, quite impressive for 1000$) but I also don't have full range electrostatics. I have it dialed in pretty well as you cannot actually hear it but more feel it if that makes sense?

I received the newer technology stators this week for my speakers and have been running them in. I am very impressed so far with a very big audible difference. I can now really hear the full quality of the 4B-SST2's highs and mids........much different from my older panels! Best amp I have used with these speakers by far!

Interesting -what are the differences in the old vs new panels technically?

james

danman · « **Reply #90 on:** 8 Jun 2009, 12:46 am »

When I contacted Jim Power of ML he told me that they use all the new techniques for glueing and different mylar that is about equal to the high end models only differing in minor details. They did cost me 1975$ The only thing I don't have is the clear spars. I really would of liked them but he told me the panels are too large and they have not yet developed a way of doing them properly.

The sound is much more dynamic and clear and I can hear such small details that I could not before. The soundstage is also much larger and I can better pick out instruments.

My friend has the Summit (not the new X) and I actually much prefer my mid range than his but he beats me in the low end as the 2 woofers are really well adapted to the speed of the panels.........they are a great speaker BUT I love great mids and so far I have not found a ML model that beats the Quest.......but I am sure if I get to hear the CLX at Son Ideal this week, I will definately find it there!! Just can't afford the price yet with 4 kids and total house renovation in the process!

Like I said in the last post, my new amp loves the new panels!

Moon Doggy · « **Reply #91 on:** 8 Jun 2009, 04:09 am »

Those descents are great looking subs. I had some 2 way bookshelf speakers set up in a small listening room and I never solved the sub integration. They were just better without a sub. Of course those were dynamic speakers. I would think it would be harder to integrate a dynamic subwoofer with panels since they come at you different ways. This might compound the problem. Of course the low bass doesn't seem so direct as dynamics do with the higher freqs.

werd · « **Reply #92 on:** 8 Jun 2009, 06:32 am »

Quote from: James Tanner on 7 Jun 2009, 02:29 pm

Hi All,

OK time to move on.

I am going to order a pair of the Martin Logan Desent i Subs and do some more playing around.

http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_intro/descent_i.html

james

Hi Folks

I know this may sound crazy but before you buy a new sub it might worth while swapping out power cords(if you can do this) I just recently inserted a shunyata python helix Alpha into my paradigm. I was using a 10gauge blue circle power cord prior. The shunyata power lead intergrated my sub where i really cant hear my sub at all any more (but the low freq is all there). I am a big advocate of mains and signals leads and i was surpised by how much sub mains lead had an overall impact on my crossover settings. I i hadnt payed much attention to my sub leads until recently. I should also mention the Torus rm-20 is making it easier to hear differences in cords.

If you find the right cord it might be what you are looking for as far as integration with Ml's. Its a trial and error... it might work and it might not.

twitch54 · « **Reply #93 on:** 8 Jun 2009, 01:16 pm »

Quote from: Moon Doggy on 8 Jun 2009, 04:09 am

I would think it would be harder to integrate a dynamic subwoofer with panels since they come at you different ways.

Actually it's a matter of taking your time along with a willingness to place the sub in the 'optimal' position given your room.

The use of a quality servo based sub along with good room EQ / correction software ( Velodyne SMS for example) will provide very good results.

Far too many people treat subs intended for music as if they were mearly an extension of their HT systems.......DOES NOT work ! A musical sub should not be asked to perform beyond the middle of the second octave and if one does bring it up that high you had better get it out of the way with a good steep slope.

So, if one follows these rules you will have no trouble intigrating a sub with your Logans !

James Tanner · « **Reply #94 on:** 8 Jun 2009, 01:19 pm »

Quote from: twitch54 on 8 Jun 2009, 01:16 pm

Quote from: Moon Doggy on 8 Jun 2009, 04:09 am
I would think it would be harder to integrate a dynamic subwoofer with panels since they come at you different ways.

Actually it's a matter of taking your time along with a willingness to place the sub in the 'optimal' position given your room.

The use of a quality servo based sub along with good room EQ / correction software ( Velodyne SMS for example) will provide very good results.

Far too many people treat subs intended for music as if they were mearly an extension of their HT systems.......DOES NOT work ! A musical sub should not be asked to perform beyond the middle of the second octave and if one does bring it up that high you had better get it out of the way with a good steep slope.

So, if one follows these rules you will have no trouble intigrating a sub with your Logans !

Hi Dave,

Thanks - would you suggest the Velodyne over the Descent i?

james

danman · « **Reply #95 on:** 8 Jun 2009, 01:27 pm »

What about JL Audio? I don't know if they are in Canada but it seems they are amazing. Waiting for Twitches advice as well because this is of interest to me. I like bass but not just any!

James Tanner · « **Reply #96 on:** 8 Jun 2009, 01:34 pm »

I am going to speak to ML directly as I have been told the Descent was designed to integrate specifically to the CLX's - so that seems like a reasonable direction but I am certainly open to any and all suggestions before I move forward.

james

danman · « **Reply #97 on:** 8 Jun 2009, 01:39 pm »

I will be awaiting your experiences!

Looks like I will have time tomorrow to listen to the CLX in Montreal as I will have the afternoon off!

God..........I can't wait! Hope Claude won't mind me listening without buying....yet!

James Tanner · « **Reply #98 on:** 8 Jun 2009, 01:41 pm »

Quote from: danman on 8 Jun 2009, 01:39 pm

I will be awaiting your experiences!

Looks like I will have time tomorrow to listen to the CLX in Montreal as I will have the afternoon off!

God..........I can't wait! Hope Claude won't mind me listening without buying....yet!

Hi Dan,

I assure you he won't - Claude is a terrific guy. By the way he advocates no-sub needed in his room.

I will look forward to your feedback.

james

twitch54 · « **Reply #99 on:** 8 Jun 2009, 01:43 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 8 Jun 2009, 01:19 pm

would you suggest the Velodyne over the Desent i?

James, Good morning.

Given your CLX's have a pre-set position on the Desent i selector knob I would think they would be a natural. I still favor the use of EQ / Room correction software, whether it be Velodynes or other mfgs.

FWIW, in my set-up (M/L Spire's) I'm using a Velodyne DD-15, which is servo based 15" sub with the built in SMS. It's crossed over @ 65Hz with a 24 degree db slope. I will not make claims that Velodyne is the greatest sub out their (Dan, I think you are probably correct in your JL thinking) but I do firmly believe that Velodyne represents and excellent value and I can attest to it's synergy with M/L !