AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: nicolasb on 7 Feb 2005, 11:11 am
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Your vote may or not make a difference. (Just like in a democracy). And just to avoid any possible confusion, no, I am nothing at all to do with Bryston or any of its decision-making processes, I'm just curious to what people think!
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Well I will certainly be interested in this one.
james
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Am interested in an update or upgrade for better 2ch sound like the BP26 for the Bryston SP1.7.
Levi
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How about a nice tube preamp? Now that would be cool...
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5.1 channel pre-amp with no processing or DAC abilities
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Excellent Poll Nicolas ! Pat yourself on the back.
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I'd be interested in both DSP and other upgrades to the SP1.7. I've been holding off upgrading my SP1 in aticipation of further upgrades. One would be adding balanced outs for the rear-surrounds--would likely need long cable runs to those channels as I don't really have room for them in my rack, and a pair of PowerPacs would be nice. DSP, first would be lip-sync delay, but would likely be for upgrades that would be needed for BluRay/HD-DVD audio tracks. And, I love the fact that video is seperate, but, if audio through HDMI becomes more widespread that may also be needed (though having a digital out from your switch/processor would eliminate that problem).
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Upgrade to the connectivity and sound quality of the SP1.7
USB2, 1394, HDMI, Ethernet connectivity
Please observe that all of these are fast enough to transport uncompresed multi-channel audio. I assume that some other shorter lived all digital appliance will do the decoding (either PC or player)
Dejitter stage with better quality DACs
Cheers
Thomas
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Voted for "some other upgrade" so here's the specifics:
Suggestions for upgrades to Bryston SP 1.7:
1) Add an Led to the Volume knob to mark it’s position. I have no idea why Bryston didn’t do this. Is it a violation of THX requirements? I currently have a Denon 5800 which doesn’t display the volume level on the TV screen either. I find it difficult to read off of the Denon display. From what I’ve seen of the SP 1.7, it’s display is about the same size as the Denon, but the SP uses a motorized volume control, so it doesn’t do the “hamster wheel” infinite turn and wouldn’t it just make the volume control look sooooo cool as well?
2) USB/RS232 port to computer for updates.
3) Mount the Control Voltage connectors on a plug which plugs into the unit. Those ultra-tiny screws are effective but an ultra-pain to work with. It would be nice to work with them in comfort then just plug em in.
4) Add XLR connectors for the rear channel(s).
5) Add non-toggle code equivalents to all commands for the SP 1.7. To make making macro commands MUCH easier. (Apologies if this has already been done).
6) New DSP if it will improve sound quality.
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Personally I think Bryston should stick to audio. Modularity is king and I would rather buy a CD player and DVD player separately so as to focus on getting top functionality in each realm. Also lets me fill in the gaps in my system over time - swallow one piece at a time rather than laying out monster bucks for a one box solution. Right now I have a dvd player in the shop. Has separate lasers for CD and DVD but when the DVD part stopped working I lost both :cry:
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:oops: I voted DSP upgrade to SP1.7 thinking this would include DAC upgrade.
If a DSP upgrade does not include DAC then am I able to vote again under "other" and specify that ?
Cheers,
John
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Originally posted by BeeBop:
Personally I think Bryston should stick to audio.
I have to agree with you on this.
I voted for the SP1.7 upgrade because there is an established product that has the audio side of HT pretty well covered and an upgrade could breath more life into it while requiring less engineering investment than a new product.
I've been looking for a product that will mate with my current system that has a 2-channel pre-amp with HT by-pass and the SP1.7 is just about perfect. However, there are new formats, digital rights management, etc coming down the pipe that will required more processing horsepower and some of the newer DACs look to be better performers than what's in the current SP1.7. So, I'm sitting on the fence and probably will be for the next year or more until some of this gets sorted.
The only other interesting processor that I've seen is the Integra RDC-7.1 but I'm not sure about the software support being there to keep the product viable and growing. It really is insane having to purchase a new pre/pro for multiple thousands of dollars every 5 or so years. I have also considered an HTPC but that might be more of a PITA than it's worth.
Bryston has a proven track record from what I've seen with the SP1 => SP1.7 and an update, when the time is right, will prove its commitment to the product. Also, you just have to LOVE the warranty which is another big way that they demonstrate their commitment.
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I voted DSP upgrade to SP1.7 thinking this would include DAC upgrade.
The actual DACs in the SP1.7 are pretty good already. IMO what's needed (in basic sound quality terms) is a jitter-removal stage.
I think, for voting purposes, perhaps one should interpret the SP1.7 poll option as meaning "the upgrade or upgrades to the SP1.7 that Bryston has already indicated it is considering implementing". :)
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Well, so far, an upgrade for the SP1.7 and a two-box CD-player solution are well in the lead, with a universal player (DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, SACD) in third place.
If you add in the people who say they want some SP1.7 upgrade other than just a change in the DSP, that puts the "SP1.7 upgrade" category well ahead of everything else.
Only one vote for a 1-box stereo CD player, interestingly, but lots for a separate CD transport and stereo DAC. Aren't we all discerning? :)
Edit: blue-laser video player is moving up the field, but still well behind the leaders....
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If you add in the people who say they want some SP1.7 upgrade other than just a change in the DSP, that puts the "SP1.7 upgrade" category well ahead of everything else.
Did anyone expect otherwise?
As someone posted earlier, Bryston should be focusing on delivering the best audio products it can which differentiates itself from other competing companies at the same price point. For example, their pre/pro is no question unique and has developed its own niche and noone can come close. IMO, they should capitalize on this position in the market, dedicating all their resources to take the 1.7 to that "next level". I say, let Denon, Pioneer and the others develop video technologies, and let Bryston unleash what it does best - top notch audio, all audio, all the time. It's disturbing to me, and others I have corresponded with, that needed upgrades to the 1.7 quite obviously have been shelved for the time being while at the same timecommunication on this point to its loyal customer base has been "radio silence". As loyalty does know bounds, I for one hope this trend does not continue.
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I would say that while I have been a huge Bryston fan and also a big supporter of the SP 1.7, I am clearly disappointed in the lack of response and follow through regarding the upgrading of this unit. It seems that when a controversial question is raised, Bryston goes silent yet when the topic is less dicey, they certainly have no qualms responding.
I am disappointed that after a few posts saying they would be upgrading it, it seems the timeline continues to get pushed further and further back to what I believe will be a time that they will simply bring out a new pre/pro rather than upgrade this one.
The unfortunate thing is that ARCAM's AV8 as well as Anthem's Statement D1 have the same issue --- lacking certain 'current' features. Anthem has promised, like Bryston, that they'd have upgrades available at the end of '04 --- nothing as of yet and from the rumor mill it would appear that they might do something late '05. ARCAM hasn't said they'd upgrade the AV8 yet it has been around for about 3 years and no upgrades are planned at this time.
Just my 2 cents.
Jim
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I must confess I'm also a little dissappointed with the lack of upgrades for the SP1.7. Back in January 2003 I was told that they were considering an upgrade to the TI "Aureus" DSP some time in the first half of 2004.
I believe one factor in the delay is that they later decided that this upgrade should also include some kind of high-bandwidth digital sound input such as Firewire or HDMI - and thus decided to wait until the rest of the industry had decided what the standard was going to be for high-bandwidth digital sound. (This is not just a question of deciding on HDMI vs Firewire, it's also a question of fixing a standard for a DVD-Audio or SACD bitstream).
I sympathise with this position - but, at the same time, given a choice between an upgraded SP1.7 with no high-bandwidth digital input in 2004 and one with such an input in 2006 or 2007, I know which I would have preferred.
I'd still far rather have a no-HDMI upgrade now than a with-HDMI upgrade a year or two from now, come to that. And I have to question whether the industry will ever agree on a standard for DVD-Audio over digital....
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Hi All;
We apologise that our meticulous approach to development has resulted in the misapprehension that we have shelved, reprioritized, or otherwise delayed the DSP upgrade for the SP1.7. We understand that this upgrade is very important to existing SP1.7 owners, and to potential preamp/processor customers, and we would like to assure everyone that we are still working on it. Nicolasb; you are correct in your appraisal of our confusion regarding high-resolution audio connections, but other than some protracted discussions, this hasn’t contributed significantly to our development time. The biggest issue has been the workload associated with rewriting all of our software to accommodate the new DSP, in addition to the time required to maintain software support of the SP1.7. We expect that an upgrade (without HDMI) for existing SP1/SP1.7 owners will soon be available to our customers.
Mike
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That's great news to go into the weekend with. :D
I am not over-anxious (okay maybe a little), I just value communication and appreciate the "feedback" as much as anyone else. Investing the time and resources, coupled with forums like this and keeping your dealers updated will make us loyal lifers!
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Well, so far, an upgrade for the SP1.7 and a two-box CD-player solution are well in the lead, with a universal player (DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, SACD) in third place.
If you add in the people who say they want some SP1.7 upgrade other than just a change in the DSP, that puts the "SP1.7 upgrade" category well ahead of everything else.
Only one vote for a 1-box stereo CD player, interestingly, but lots for a separate CD transport and stereo DAC. Aren't we all discerning? :)
Edit: blue-laser video player is moving up the field, but still well behind the leaders....
Well if you add up universal player (DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, SACD) + DVD transport that puts a "DVD player" in the lead... YES! gimme, gimme! lol.
I originally posted a DVD transport would be nice from Bryston, but I voted here for the "universal player" because those would be nice additional features along with DVD, ....don't forget the SDI output... :wink: Ah, why not just make a DVD transport and a Universal player?? :mrgreen:
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The only problem with a poll is you can't vote more than once (sigh). But at least you can post more than once so...
Well if you add up universal player (DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, SACD) + DVD transport that puts a "DVD player" in the lead... YES! gimme, gimme! lol.
If you can build one that actually passes ALL of Secrets (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/dvd-benchmark-introduction-9-2000.html) tests, I know I'd buy it. (I don't think there's been one yet)
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We expect that an upgrade (without HDMI) for existing SP1/SP1.7 owners will soon be available to our customers.
Is there any chance you could clarify what you mean by "soon"? :D
Failing that, when can we expect an official announcement of what the upgrade will involve, and what it will cost?
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Nicolasb wrote:
Is there any chance you could clarify what you mean by "soon"?
How's about 'Spring'? If I try to be any more precise I'll wind up apologizing later.
Mike
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If you can build one that actually passes ALL of Secrets tests, I know I'd buy it. (I don't think there's been one yet)
..I think the problem is that Secrets tests are more video driven than audio oriented....
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How's about 'Spring'? If I try to be any more precise I'll wind up apologizing later.
Well that's pretty vague! Bryston is based in Canada, and the whole of Canada is well known to be held in the iron grip of a never-ending Ice Age, so that could quite easily mean several thousand years from now. :lol:
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I've decided I shall optimistically interpret "Spring" to mean "some time between the beginning of March and the end of May this year". :)
Are any more details available, yet? For example:- Is anything other than the DSP being changed?
- What (if any) new features will be available in the first release of the software intended for the new DSP?
- Are you now going for THX Ultra 2 certification?
- What is the cost of the upgrade likely to be?
- And a perennial favourite of mine: might it be possible for us British customers to have the upgrade done in Britain by PMC rather than having the processor sent to Canada and back? I have to assume that the two-way trip across the Atlantic is one reason why previous Bryston upgrades have cost (literally) twice as much in Britain as they do in america.[/list:u]
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Well that's pretty vague! Bryston is based in Canada, and the whole of Canada is well known to be held in the iron grip of a never-ending Ice Age, so that could quite easily mean several thousand years from now. :lol:
Not the "iron grip", the "Icy Grip", the "ICY GRIP !!"
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"The icy grip of an ice age" just sounds silly, though. Can't have anything to do with Bryston sounding silly.... :wink:
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If you can build one that actually passes ALL of Secrets (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/dvd-benchmark-introduction-9-2000.html) tests, I know I'd buy it. (I don't think there's been one yet)
I bought one of those - a Denon 1600 DVD player. Lasted less than 2 years.
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I bought one of those - a Denon 1600 DVD player. Lasted less than 2 years.
Yea, I don't have much faith in mass market companies anymore. (Hence the reason I haven't purchased a Denon DVD player - Besides, didn't this one fail one test?) But if Bryston built it, I'd buy it.
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Everyone's gone all quiet again on the subject of the SP1.7 upgrade, I see. :(
I have this vision in my head of Mike Pickett being intercepted on his way home by someone who sounds like Fat Tony (on "The Simpsons"):
"It would appear, Mr Pickett, that a certain person has been... shall we say, a little too generous in the giving out of information. Your friends at Bryston would like your reassurance that this will not happen again."
:mrgreen:
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Alright, alright.
I'll answer your questions as best as I can, but if I end up taking a short swim in heavy boots you'll know why.
The upgrade will involve at least the micro-controller board in addition to the DSP. As far as I know, nothing else is needed to accomodate the new DSP.
As far as new features go, Shane might have to weigh in on this one, since most of the features are part of his software. Same deal regarding Ultra 2 certification. Shane?
We haven't figured out a cost for this upgrade yet, but we're working on it. Since it won't involve a faceplate and rear panel, etc., we're assuming it will work out cheaper than the upgrade from SP1 to 1.7, but the DSP is still expensive, so don't get too excited.
nicolasb; you'll be happy to know that this is a fairly straightforward board swap, and can be easily done at the distribution level. Short answer is no, you won't have to send it to us.
[/list:u]
Now if that's everything, I'm going to dig a path to my snowmobile and head home. Later.
Mike
P.S. Watch it. My Mom's Sicilian, although she doesn't sound like Fat Tony.
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Thanks, Mike! :thumb:
I'm all excited now! :hyper:
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Alright, alright.
I'll answer your questions as best as I can, but if I end up taking a short swim in heavy boots you'll know why.
The upgrade will involve at least the micro-controller board in addition to the DSP. As far as I know, nothing else is needed to accomodate the new DSP.
As far as new features go, Shane might have to weigh in on this one, since most of the features are part of his software. Same deal regarding Ultra 2 certification. Shane?
We haven't figured out a cost for ...
Thanks very much Mike! Now bug Shane about updating that rs-232 protocol... :D
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I am excited about the proposed update for the SP1.7. I saw a new one with the screen that can be turned off.
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Okay, what do we have to do to get Shane out of hiding and have him comment on likely software changes? :)
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Okay, what do we have to do to get Shane out of hiding and have him comment on likely software changes?
Voodoo doll! :lol:
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Okay, what do we have to do to get Shane out of hiding and have him comment on likely software changes?
Voodoo doll! :lol:
:lol: :lol:
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Alright, alright.
I'll answer your questions as best as I can, but if I end up taking a short swim in heavy boots you'll know why.
The upgrade will involve at least the micro-controller board in addition to the DSP. As far as I know, nothing else is needed to accomodate the new DSP.
As far as new features go, Shane might have to weigh in on this one, since most of the features are part of his software. Same deal regarding Ultra 2 certification. Shane?
We haven't figured out a cost for ...
Two Questions, Mike:
What is the micro controller board and can you provide any more detail around the new DSP. Also, say it ain't so Mike - no change in the back panel which I guess means no additional subwoofer out? The ability to run dual subwoofers is market these days.
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On the dual subs - you can use the XLR and the RCA out.
james
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On the dual subs - you can use the XLR and the RCA out.
james
Yep, I certainly tried that and got a very weak signal level on the RCA when used in conjunction with the XLR. Now maybe it shouldn't be that way in which case I will have you guys look at it when I send it back for the upgrade.
By the way, is Bryston a private company?
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Yes -it is private - it is owned by 4 individuals - all working at Bryston
james
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Yes -it is private - it is owned by 4 individuals - all working at Bryston
james
Well, I take it you may be one of them.
Anyway, I asked because if they are ever looking for private capital for R&D, etc, this Forum would certainly be the place to start. 8)
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Yes I am one of them - how much you got?
james
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Yes I am one of them - how much you got?
james
In Canadian dollars (CAD).......I guess a lot ! Although that has started to reverse of late, hasn't it?
Seriously we're all pumped for new and improved innovations in audio from you guys - I guess its the Fab Four?.
[/u]
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It's great to hear there are some upgrades on the way! To be honest, I sold my SP1.7 a few months ago as I was going down the HTPC route direct to my 9B ST as a cost saving exercise but now I am moving to a new property with space for a nice 7.1 system, I'm looking at processors again. I had disregarded the SP1.7 because of the surround processing not being up with the higher end Lexicon's (although I know the analogue passthrough is superior!) Now that I know an improvement in this area is imminent, the SP1.7 is definitely back on my shortlist :D . I would be looking to buy in April-May time, do you think the updates would be available on new stock by then? Oh and I'll be getting either a 3B SST or 4B SST for the extra 2 channels of amplification! :D
By the way, I got excellent service from PMC with a repair to my 9B ST in the UK recently. This is another big reason for relooking at the Bryston brand!
Steve
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I bought one of those - a Denon 1600 DVD player. Lasted less than 2 years.
Yea, I don't have much faith in mass market companies anymore. (Hence the reason I haven't purchased a Denon DVD player - Besides, didn't this one fail one test?) But if Bryston built it, I'd buy it.
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can you provide any more detail around the new DSP.
We know that the chip is the "Aureus" or DA610, made by Texas Instruments. It's been around for several years now. The aureus has also been used by Harmon Kardon and by JVC, among others. Try this link (http://focus-webapps.ti.com/general/docs/sitesearch/searchsite.tsp?advancedSiteSearch=true&searchTerm=TMS320DA610&selectedTopic=1653260327) to search on TI's site for info.
The aureus is rated at 1800 MIPS or 1200 MFLOPS (some sources claim 1350) - this gives it approximately the same processing power as two SHARC 21161N processors: a pair of 21161N SHARCs is what you'll find inside something like a Denon A1SR or a Tag McLaren AV192R (or the dual-processor version of the AV32R).
Many moons ago I tried putting together a list of the DSPs used in various processors. See this thread here (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103342) over on AV Forums. (Note that the figures for the MC-12 on there are for the version 3 processor - the version 4 is a lot more powerful).
Also, say it ain't so Mike - no change in the back panel which I guess means no additional subwoofer out? The ability to run dual subwoofers is market these days.
Not that it's any of my business :) but what did you want the second sub for? If you want to run two off the same signal then a simple splitter cable ought to suffice. If not, how did you want to break the signal down?
It would, admittedly, be cool to do the Lexicon thing of having one sub handle the LFE channel of a movie while another handles bass-management bass (or possibly even 2 others - in stereo). Or were you just hoping to reduce standing waves by having one sub either side of a mid-room node?
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Not that it's any of my business :) but what did you want the second sub for? If you want to run two off the same signal then a simple splitter cable ought to suffice. If not, how did you want to break the signal down?
It would, admittedly, be cool to do the Lexicon thing of having one sub handle the LFE channel of a movie while another handles bass-management bass (or possibly even 2 others - in stereo). Or were you just hoping to reduce standing waves by having one sub either side of a mid-room node?
Your point about the Lexicon feature is indeed pretty cool but as you stated I was thinking simply running two subs around the room. As I posted earlier, I found that using the RCA and XLR at the same time negatively impacted the signal level (which may just be a problem with my 1.7), and splitting the signal as I am currently now doing is not the best thing to do either I understand.
I apologize to the JVC and HK owners out there, but isn't that not such a great statement to make that its the same DSP as has been around for "several" years now and found in a JVC or HK receiver (as opposed to Theta or Meridian, etc.) or is it, as I thought, that once you have the processing power its then the proprietary software implementation and other components around the DSP that really count to make a pre/pro shine? By the way, didn't Tag go out of business? Please feel free to correct me all the way through!
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No, Tag McLaren didn't go out of business. :) There was a time a couple of years back when it looked like they might be about to stop making audio products, but they're still going strong now.
The difference that more processing power makes is hard to quantify. It has been my empirical observation that the processors with more processing power available tend to have superior steering in the rear channels. It's the rear channels that (IMO) show up the biggest difference between an SP1.7 and a Lexicon MC-12. I also reckon that an SP1.7 beats a dual-processor Tag McLaren device in terms of clarity in the the front three channels, but that the Tag machine sounds better in the rears.
There are at least three possible reasons for this:
1) It isn't actually possible to do DD and DTS decoding plus standard bass management in an absolutely optimum way on an older DSP. (Seems unlikely).
2) Newer DSPs have their basic code written more recently than older ones, and there are fewer bugs in the standard code libraries.
3) The companies that (at the time I was auditioning) were using more processing power (Tag McLaren, Lexicon, Meridian) are the same companies who use a significant amount of proprietary post-processing software, so it may be this that makes the difference.
Doubtless there are other possibilities (including the possiblity that there's no real correlation at all and it's just a statistical aberration! :) ) But I've been saying for a long time that I'm looking forward to hearing what happens when the superior analogue performance of the SP1.7 is coupled with a higher-powered DSP. We shall see!
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Any updates as to when the updates will be available for the SP1.7?
Thanks,
Levi
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Hi Levi,
Well it certainly appears that the SP1.7 upgrade is the next target. We continue to move forward with the new software and I will let everyone know ASAP what new features and hardware upgrades will be offered.
Given all the issues surrounding DVD HD and Blue Laser - thats on hold for now.
We have a few prototype CD drives up and running.
james
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Hi Levi,
Well it certainly appears that the SP1.7 upgrade is the next target. We continue to move forward with the new software and I will let everyone know ASAP what new features and hardware upgrades will be offered.
Given all the issues surrounding DVD HD and Blue Laser - thats on hold for now.
We have a few prototype CD drives up and running.
james
A Bryston CD Transport :D :D :D Awesome!
Steve
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Hi Levi,
Well it certainly appears that the SP1.7 upgrade is the next target. We continue to move forward with the new software and I will let everyone know ASAP what new features and hardware upgrades will be offered.
james
:thumb::beer: :xmas: :thumb:
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Hi Levi,
Well it certainly appears that the SP1.7 upgrade is the next target. We continue to move forward with the new software and I will let everyone know ASAP what new features and hardware upgrades will be offered.
Given all the issues surrounding DVD HD and Blue Laser - thats on hold for now.
We have a few prototype CD drives up and running.
james
(http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/allhail.gif)
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We have a few prototype CD drives up and running.
The voting in this and its sister thread (click here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=16988.msg151799#151799)) suggests (on the basis of this sample, anyway) that the most popular choice for something to work on after the SP1.7 DSP upgrade would be additional SP1.7 hardware upgrades, followed by a stand-alone stereo DAC, followed by a "universal" player - not much support for a CD transport. Still, I guess it's a small sample. :)
it certainly appears that the SP1.7 upgrade is the next target. We continue to move forward with the new software and I will let everyone know ASAP what new features and hardware upgrades will be offered.
That's what I wanna hear about! :smoke:
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...We have a few prototype CD drives up and running.
Yeah baby, YEAH! If you are taking suggestions, can you consider making it front loading, with both optical and coax outputs, and a nicely damped case in either silver or black?
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If Bryston will build a CD transport and I'll want to buy one it will automatically be on my shortlist, just because it's Bryston. However, the chances that I'll want a transport are quite remote.
Why would people buy a transport, when it is almost a concensus that one can build a DAC almost totally independent from the transport. Look at Wadia or Esoteric (Teac) transports - the over-engineering is getting ridiculous. Does Bryston want to compete with that ?
I honestly don't see the financial sense in that. I think it is a mistake, and I'd hate to see Bryston throw valuable resources down he drain.
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Hi Dan,
So far we are looking at doing a complete CD Player not just a drive.
The DAC we build for our BP26 and now the B100 has been getting rave reviews the world over so we think adding these Class A discrete circuits to an excellent DAC would provide our customers with an exceptional CD player at a reasonable price.
We are still in the 'lets see what we can do stage' at this point.
james
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excuse me - I did not understand .
An integrated player makes more sense. It is still a risk - as others have mentioned, but than again, I think most people will actually prefer an integrated player for practical reasons (and of course - jitter is less of an issue there).
Well - good luck.
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It's very good to see that Bryston is focusing all their efforts on the audio side of things. Again, I think they should stick to what they do best and continue to develop this niche along with a larger following. I've said it before, but I really think they have a golden opportunity now more than ever to produce a new generation 1.7 with both new software and hardware upgrades that would enable Bryston to gain a lot more market share. At this price point, the "1.7+ " could really differentiate itself against the more popular pre/pros that people generally first consider such as Anthem, Halo, Krell, Arcam, EAD, etc and even attract those looking to more expensive processors such as Meridian or Lexicon. Further, the SST line would almost certainly benefit from this. I'm excited about what the not too distant future will bring.
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Why would people buy a transport, when it is almost a concensus that one can build a DAC almost totally independent from the transport....
I'm no expert in audio equipment marketing but there are an awful lot of stand alone DACs out there that are being used with DVD players, highly modded or not, cheap CD players, etc.. I would have thought that a solid transport putting out a low jitter, nicely formed signal would find a market. Since the transport is the most frail part of an audio system, then a stand alone transport could be replaced if need be without having to replace the DAC in the box as well.
I like the idea of the DAC in the BP pre-amp - you are only paying for the DAC since you already have the power supply and case.
Just my 2¢.
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Hi BeeBop.
James Tanner corrected my assumption so our debate is irrelevant, but just for the sake of arguement:
.. I would have thought that a solid transport putting out a low jitter, nicely formed signal would find a market. Since the transport is the most frail part of an audio system, then a stand alone transport could be replaced if need be without having to replace the DAC in the box as well.
It is that not hard to find a reliable CD-transport. I have an old cheap Yamaha CDP that never showed any sign of age, eventhough the build quality seems poor. Even if the transport needs to be replaced - you can always buy another cheap Rotel.
Why don't you try something- if you can find a Chord DAC64,a Bryston B-something-DAC or a Benchmark DAC1 - try them with something like a Rotel 971, and then with something like Levinson 32, or Wadia 861. I'd be surprised if there is much of a difference.
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A lot of people rave about the modded Sony S7700 dvd player as a transport. Mods alone for this are ~$1300! According to Steve at Empirical Audio, and the people who buy this modded transport, things like waveform and jitter do make a noticeable difference and are not found in every CD player.
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I don't know why everyone is making such heavy weather of this. There are two different types of DAC devices: one that uses the input pulses to determine timing, and one that uses its own separate clock-circuit for timing.
The first type is strongly dependent on the quality of the transport. The second type isn't.
It really is that simple.
-
Well, almost that easy.
The factors that are being left out here are quality and cost.
A design with an asynchronous sample rate converter like the Bryston, Benchmark Media, Bel Canto, ... DACs will still be impacted in sound by quality of the digital link by the source. These DACs will basically play a different song every time you play a track and with a better source this will sound more similar from one playback to the next. What these design will take care of is the jitter induced sidebands that you will find if you directly slave your clock from the input signal.
In order to actually play the same bits every time and still get rid of the jitter you have a couple of options which vary greatly in price. Starting from the most expensive.
1. Multi-stage synchronous dejitter circuit like what Weiss is doing in their DAC1. They even removed the master clock I/O on their latest model.
2. Deep memory dejitter buffer and time shifting like the Chord DAC64
These two options still have the clock of the sender as the master clock of the playback chain which is probably the wrong choice.
3. Master clock output combined with S/PDIF on the DAC and slaving your source from that. Universal Audio, DCS, or Meitner make DACs that follow this design pattern. The source will have no impact on the sound as long as you transmit the same set of bit samples. A $150 sound card will sound as good as an esoteric DCS player. However building a reasonable priced player in this category looks like an interesting niche! The Philips chip sets for car CD players have all the logic necessary logic to do this.
4. USB or Ethernet asynchronous mode with the master clock in the DAC
This is probably the cheapest and most robust method of all. The USB audio spec has an asynchronous mode where the clock in the DAC is the master and the DAC fetches the data from the source on demand. There is a $5 chip from TI that enables this mode. Again if you want to build a standalone CD player rather than using a computer source (which seems to be the future anyway) you could use the car stereo chipsets that allow you to slave all the mechanics to an external clock.
Cheers
Thomas
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Nicolasb wrote:
Is there any chance you could clarify what you mean by "soon"?
How's about 'Spring'? If I try to be any more precise I'll wind up apologizing later.
Mike
Well Spring doesn't feel like its in the air yet in the Northeast, but technically the Vernal Equinox has passed. Yeah, yeah, I know. Just overly excited, I guess!
-
I do not believe Mike said 'which spring'.
james
-
Yeah, he might have meant "Spring, 2007". :cry:
-
Nicolasb wrote:
Is there any chance you could clarify what you mean by "soon"?
How's about 'Spring'? If I try to be any more precise I'll wind up apologizing later.
Mike
Well Spring doesn't feel like its in the air yet in the Northeast, but technically the Vernal Equinox has passed. Yeah, yeah, I know. Just overly excited, I guess!
Now that's cold (no pun intended).
James, is Mike willing to reply or did he see his shadow?
-
Mike reads the posts daily so we should see a response soon.
james
-
Oops. Sorry about that. Guess I've been a little lax in checking the posts.
Anyway, still lots of software work to be done before this update is a reality. Sorry I can't say anything more useful than that.
Mike
P.S. Judging by the past weekend, spring may still be a ways off...
-
Mike,
Can we assume that the software upgrades being implemented (i.e., more powerful DSP chip) will be able to support DTS-HD and Dolby Digital Plus? Blu-Ray & HD-DVD have announced (months ago) that these formats will be supported. But then I assume to support the increased bandwidth of either format that something like HDMI would need to be implemented into the processor which would mean a hardware upgrade next?
-
The TI DSP we are going to use has the speed and the capability to decode any new formats from Dolby or DTS. As formats become reality, the firmware on the DSP can be updated to support them.
It looks like Dolby Digital Plus actually exists (I think), and can be transmitted via S/PDIF, so no problem regarding hardware compatibility, although it sounds like it would be capable of better perfomance with a faster digital connection.
Obviously, DTS-HD would need some form of high bandwith digital connection, but I coudn't find any record of it's existence other than a single press release from DTS that's been cut and pasted to 100's of other sites, so I'm not going to get too worried.
Thus far, the only digital connection that can be (or has been, anyway) used for high bandwidth digital is Firewire, and only in proprietary applications. Apparently HDMI 1.2 will allow both DVD-A and SACD audio bitstreams, but will it be used? Maybe 'Super HDMI' or 'HDCP Ultra' will work. :)
This is just based on a few minutes of internet research, which is dodgy to begin with, so I might be talking through my hat, but it's Friday, so I welcome the opportunity to surf and call it work...
Mike
-
Hey MIKE,
Any update (fav or unfav) on the Spring Upgrade?
-
Hi All,
We have been delayed on the software side - hopefully it will be sorted out by the end of May.
james
-
James, are you at the point yet where the feature-set is nailed down and you're just debugging, or are you still deciding what to include and what not to include?
Either way, there must presumably be some things that are definitely going to be included in the post-upgrade software, so how about giving us a list of them? :)
-
Nothing nailed down.
We may release the new digital boards with the current software and as we go allow software upgrades to be downloaded as we develop them.
james
-
and as we go allow software upgrades to be downloaded as we develop them.
Downloadable software upgrades (as opposed to the current system of opening up the case and physically replacing an EPROM chip) sound like a very good idea to me, regardless of the content.
-
and as we go allow software upgrades to be downloaded as we develop them.
Downloadable software upgrades (as opposed to the current system of opening up the case and physically replacing an EPROM chip) sound like a very good idea to me, regardless of the content.
Hear, hear! This is a great idea.
-
We may release the new digital boards with the current software and as we go allow software upgrades to be downloaded as we develop them.
Will these downloadable upgrades be attached with a price tag?
-KJ
-
Good question.
-
I do not think so at this point.
james
-
James, any info on the new boards and the type input that it will have to enable it get these software upgrades. Also, with regard to the SP 1.7 now that the BP 26 is out, do you foresee any possibility of a 1.7 with an upgraded power supply to make in the functional equivalent of a BP-26 in the 2 channel bypass mode?
-
HI,
I assume we will use the R232 input to load software but I will check with engineering on that one..
No the power supply on the SP1.7 will not change.
james
-
Hi All,
We have been delayed on the software side - hopefully it will be sorted out by the end of May.
james
Hey Mike, James:
Some pretty hot days lately in NYC with the onset of Summer the other day. Any progress update you can offer (or not) on our favorite topic?
THanks in advance!
-
I assume we will use the R232 input to load software but I will check with engineering on that one..
Seeing as this thread seems to have come back to life anyway... did you get confirmation of the above, James?
-
Hi
Yes we are working on allowing the software to be downloaded on the RS 232 input.
james
-
Hi All,
We have been delayed on the software side - hopefully it will be sorted out by the end of May.
james
Hey Mike, James:
Some pretty hot days lately in NYC with the onset of Summer the other day. Any progress update you can offer (or not) on our favorite topic?
THanks in advance!
Great! But what about the update?
-
Hi James,
Will the upgraded board fully balanced?
Thank you.
Levi
-
Just the 5.1 will be balanced.
james
-
How about a balanced analog input to complement the balanced output.
Is it cost prohibitive to have true balanced design:?:
-
Hi,
It is more a question of space because the SP1.7 is a 'true differencial balanced design' using 'discrete operational Class A amplifiers" ---NO IC's.
Balanced lines are beneficial in long runs so because most sources are close to the SP1.7 there is no advantage to balanced inputs.
james
-
Hi All,
We have been delayed on the software side - hopefully it will be sorted out by the end of May.
james
Hey Mike, James:
Some pretty hot days lately in NYC with the onset of Summer the other day. Any progress update you can offer (or not) on our favorite topic?
THanks in advance!
Great! But what about the update?
If you guys are finished asking specific questions, it would be great just to get an overall general progress update as to how the actual software/DSP upgrade is going?
-
Shane and Dan are working with the new software now and I have prototypes at home I am assessing.
james
-
Shane and Dan are working with the new software now and I have prototypes at home I am assessing.
james
Cool!
Thanks James.
Let us know if you need some help!
:thumb: :dance: :thumb:
-
Shane and Dan are working with the new software now and I have prototypes at home I am assessing.
Can you tell us what any of the new software features are, yet?
-
Shane and Dan are working with the new software now and I have prototypes at home I am assessing.
james
My SP1.7 is currently in for repair. I'd be happy to be a beta tester for the new software (as long as there's a way to drop back to the old version, as an at-home operation.)
-
You broke it deliberately just so you could ask them that, didn't you? :nono:
-
You broke it deliberately just so you could ask them that, didn't you? :nono:
Well, seeing as I sent it in before I knew the software was ready, um...
I mean, If I was that prescient, do you think I'd be posting from Massachusetts, instead of the Carribean? I'd have bought up that Microsoft stock a few decades back, and...
-
A DVD-player, able to play DVD-Audio just in two channels. There is no need for 5.1 channels (or maybe it is... but not in my opinion).
So, a DVD-player that will excell in CD reproduction.
That will do it.
-
I'd love it if the Video Switcher could be upgraded to unpack a composite or VGA signal input into a component output. This comes up with projectors. You'll have a DVD (component), a VCR (composite), and maybe a PC or other video source. 30' of cable away, you'll have a projector.
With the VS the way it is now, you have to run 4 cables out to the projector to handle this - and if the projector isn't too swift about auto-switching to different inputs, you get to fiddle with it every time the source changes. But if the VS could be told to unpack inputs into a component output, you'd run one less cable - and the projector would never have to switch modes.
I suppose an option to convert the other way could be useful, too.
-
if the projector isn't too swift about auto-switching to different inputs, you get to fiddle with it every time the source changes
You're looking for a scaler/switcher. Quite an expensive device when done properly, but I don't think it's Brystons forte.
But you're right, a scaler/switcher is certainly necessary for a projector. Projectors work best when fed their 'native' resolution. The mutliple inputs and cheezy scalers they provide integral to most projectors today don't usually do a good job, and as you say, there's that pesky switching time. You really need an external scaler/switcher that accepts mutiple inputs and resolutions and outputs the selectable native resolution of your projector...
brucek
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You're looking for a scaler/switcher. Quite an expensive device when done properly, but I don't think it's Brystons forte. ...
brucek
Yes, generally $1000 and up. But Bryston's already selling a box with the right inputs and outputs, power supply, and so on, and there's a hunk of the cost right there. I'd be willing to bet that for an extra $500, the VS could take on this role. And it would turn the VS, which is basically an adjunct to the SP1.7 as it stands, to a useful standalone device that solves a pesky problem. Byrston could liscence the technology from a shop that already does it right; no need to completely reinvent the wheel.
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Yes, generally $1000 and up
Decent scaling starts around $3000. I think Brystons reputation demands top notch electronics. But I agree, they could work with some capable company on this and come up with a nice product that only adds a few thousand to the existing VS..
I really like the idea... :D
brucek
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Shane and Dan are working with the new software now and I have prototypes at home I am assessing.
james
James, can we get another update -- perhaps a time frame especially if you are getting pissed off at us asking too often?
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>James, can we get another update -- perhaps a time frame especially if you are getting pissed off at us asking too often?
I'm trying to imagine a head of Marketing getting pissed at loyal fans openly clamouring for the next release of a product. It's not working; all I can see is tears of gratitude and murmurs of "damn, I love my job." :-)
As a software guy, I have a pretty good guess as to what's going on. Someone found a bug or two, and it can be a little tricky to predict when a bug will be fixed. (There are only two honest bugfix estimates, depending on the sort of bug: 1. "Oh, that's easy. Fifteen minutes." 2. "Dear God, who knows? Who KNOWS?!?")
I think Bryston could do well by using willing AC folk as a test bed for software changes. Nothing finds bugs like hordes of users, and lots of folk here would cheerfully do QA for free, if there was even the prospect of improved musical performance, or a new feature to try out.
And why not? Microsoft's been doing this for decades. Only they call them "End users", not "volunteers", and you have to pay to play. :-)
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Hi All,
Still working on software and feature changes and making sure all is OK.
james
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Hi All,
Still working on software and feature changes and making sure all is OK.
james
Hi James,
Are there going to be changes in the 2ch bypass mode?
Thanks.
Levi
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No changes in analog
james
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Hi All,
Still working on software and feature changes and making sure all is OK.
james
Hi James,
Can you please give us just a teeny tiny taste of some of the pertinent features and the initial impressions compared to the current?????
:hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper:
-
So far:
THX Ultra Sub setting - Independent Crossover selection on Fronts, Rears, Backs and Sub - 7.1 surround from any 2 channel source - 96/24 DTS surround. - 96/24 Stereo.
james
-
So far:
THX Ultra Sub setting - Independent Crossover selection on Fronts, Rears, Backs and Sub - 7.1 surround from any 2 channel source - 96/24 DTS surround. - 96/24 Stereo.
james
Cool. How is the new DSP?
-
Hi adz,
Do you mean from a sound quality standpoint how the DSP is different?
james
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Hi adz,
Do you mean from a sound quality standpoint how the DSP is different?
james
Well, I guess so -- I was wondering if additional processing power resulted in an enhancement in sound quality; but perhaps I was off there when I posted that. I guess the extra processsing power lays the foundation and the potential for being able to build in more features and do more things which can improve sound quality, but it and of itself doesnt??
-
Hi adz,
Yes I agree it simply allows for more computing power rather than a quality difference.
Something you may find interesting is that when we were deciding on what DAC's to use in the SP1.7 and the BP26/B100 etc. we did some blind listening tests with a number of people. We switched between DAC's at 44/96/192KHz and found that no one could distinguish between 96 and 192. When we ran the technical tests we found that the 192 actually had more distortion and noise than the 96 (think the DAC's get a little more stressed at that point). So we decided to use the DAC's capable of 192 performance but run them at 96/24.
The main point though is that I find the analog amplifying stages around the DSP's or DAC's are far more critical to optimizing performance than the DSP's and DAC's themselves.
james
-
So far:
THX Ultra Sub setting - Independent Crossover selection on Fronts, Rears, Backs and Sub - 7.1 surround from any 2 channel source - 96/24 DTS surround. - 96/24 Stereo.
james
What about DPLIIx?
-
Yes it has DPL11X
-
I was wondering if additional processing power resulted in an enhancement in sound quality; but perhaps I was off there when I posted that. I guess the extra processsing power lays the foundation and the potential for being able to build in more features and do more things which can improve sound quality, but it and of itself doesnt??
While a more powerful DSP ought not to make any difference to simple operations like decoding Dolby Digital, in practice it often does, not so much because the DSP is more powerful, but simply because it is newer and better supported. The software for things like decoding DD is almost never written by the manufacturers of the final device. Instead it uses standard libraries published by the manufacturers of the DSP. Older DSPs often have more bugs in the standard code libraries, which can't be fixed because the DSP is no supported by the manufacturer. Newer DSPs tend to have less buggy libraries (and if anything is wrong, there's a chance it can be fixed).
So far as I'm aware, Bryston doesn't write its own proprietary post-processing software in the way that (say) Lexicon or Meridian or Tag McLaren all do, so the same thing probably applies to things like bass management. Doing bass management properly is not quite as simple as it sounds, anyway, and it tends to be an area where older devices (such as the single-processor Tag McLaren AV32R) are a little weaker than newer ones (such as Meridian or Lexicon devices).
My own experience suggests that newer devices with more powerful DSPs seem to produce better quality steering across the rear channels than older ones do. If you compare an SP1.7 to a dual-SHARC Tag McLaren processor, for example, the Bryston sounds better in the front 3 speakers, but the Tag has razor-sharp steering to the rear, while the SP1.7 is slightly less clear. That's also the area where the Lexicon MC12B most clearly beats the SP1.7.
It'll be interesting to see how much (if any) difference there is to the sound quality after the DSP upgrade. There may also be some useful new features. I think it's more or less official that we'll have the ability to set different cross-over frequencies for different speakers with the new DSP - that will allow some useful fine-tuning in floorstander systems where the fronts can go deeper than the rears. It will also (I imagine) eliminate the annoying effect where everything above the cross-over frequency in the LFE channel is rolled off at 24dB per octave.
We'll see. :)
-
So far:
THX Ultra Sub setting - Independent Crossover selection on Fronts, Rears, Backs and Sub - 7.1 surround from any 2 channel source - 96/24 DTS surround. - 96/24 Stereo.
james
Thank you thank you thank you! Independent crossover frequencies are going to be helpful in tailoring the sound for my wife, who likes different bass and speaker setups than I do. :-)
One thing I want to beg for - please make it possible to adjust the crossovers via the serial port interface. Bring able to send something like "XOF 35" (cross over the front channels at 35) would make automation really, really nice: that way, in my homegrown automated system, I can hit the Wife button and call up one style of processing, and the Husband button and call up a different one. :-)
By the way, I can't recommend enough that you give away a Windows application that speaks serial to the SP1.7 and lets you specify settings; *especially* setting the Effects processing. Selecting an effect from the remote or front panel is absolutely maddening - you have to step through each setting in turn, you can't just hold the button down and scroll to the one you want, and if you push the buttons quickly, it ignores you. Walking among PL2Movie, Stereo5 and Natural (my most common picks) is especially annoying, and automating this in my own system made my music life a lot less irritating.
-
Good points, Scott.
I'll take it one step further and ask - Will be there be any enhancements to the rs232 protocol in general with this upgrade?
Us home-automation guys would love to know!
-
By the way, I can't recommend enough that you give away a Windows application that speaks serial to the SP1.7 and lets you specify settings;
Great idea, but please make it platform agnostic (Linux, Mac, etc.) and not just Windows specific.
-
By the way, I can't recommend enough that you give away a Windows application that speaks serial to the SP1.7 and lets you specify settings;
Great idea, but please make it platform agnostic (Linux, Mac, etc.) and not just Windows specific.
Ewww. That means Java. Ick. Oh well, at least this is an application for which Java will, for once, not be too slow. :-)
How about a deal: if Bryston publishes a complete list of serial commands, and adds commands for setting things like crossover frequencies, speaker size & distance, test mode and all the other goodies, then I'll write a full on, bebelled and whistley, freewareian Visual Basic app that does all the good things. It's more or less what I'm doing anyway. Someone else can port it to Java. :-)
-
While a more powerful DSP ought not to make any difference to simple operations like decoding Dolby Digital, in practice it often does, not so much because the DSP is more powerful, but simply because it is newer and better supported. The software for things like decoding DD is almost never written by the manufacturers of the final device. Instead it uses standard libraries published by the manufacturers of the DSP. Older DSPs often have more bugs in the standard code libraries, which can't be fixed because ...
James,
Based on what Nicholasb said, can you guys tell if the more powerful DSP is enhancing the surrounds?
-
Hi adz,
The one aspect of the SP1.7 that most people commented to us was how well the surrounds supported the fronts. At our demos there was a sense that you could walk right into the sound stage as if it occupied a 3-dimensional space.
I would say that the new DSP seems to do this as well but I have not had time to directly compare the surrounds.
james
-
Just a comment on this. I'm about to pull the trigger and order an SP1.7 for the new room I'm building (already have the amps now whoop!). Should I wait a bit until the upgrade is available?
-
Hi,
We are still working on software so it may be a while yet.
The SP1.7 will be able to be upgraded to the new hardware and software when it is available.
james
-
James,
Do we know what the cost of the upgrade will be yet? And will the price of a new SP1.7 (with the new DSP) be higher than it is now?
-
HI,
Do not know exactly at this point but assume the price upgrade will be similar to the current upgrade price from SP1 to SP1.7.
Have not assessed the retail price at this point.
james
-
HI,
Do not know exactly at this point but assume the price upgrade will be similar to the current upgrade price from SP1 to SP1.7.
Have not assessed the retail price at this point.
james
James,
Would you have a conservative update to the timeframe of the roll-out? Perhaps a big annoucement to coincide with CES (Las Vegas) in January 2006?
Also, what is the hardware part of the upgrade -- I thought it was just software?
-
HI,
Yes I would hope by vegas it would be available.
There is a new Digital board.
james
-
HI,
Yes I would hope by vegas it would be available.
There is a new Digital board.
james
Excuse my lack of knowledge, but is that the TI DSP or something else?
-
Yes T1
james
-
HI,
Do not know exactly at this point but assume the price upgrade will be similar to the current upgrade price from SP1 to SP1.7.
Have not assessed the retail price at this point.
james
(wince)
So (from http://www.bryston.ca/sp17memo.html ) that's roughly $1500 (US) or $1800 (Canadian)?
Did you ever announce firmly whether overseas distributors (e.g PMC) will able to do the upgrade themselves or if an SP1.7 will have to be shipped to Canada and back for the upgrade?
Oh, and another question, actually - what's on the "digital board" apart from the DSP chip? Will you be changing the DACs, for example?
-
(wince)
So (from http://www.bryston.ca/sp17memo.html ) that's roughly $1500 (US) or $1800 (Canadian)?
Surely not? The SP1 to 1.7 was a big upgrade and touched a lot of parts. Isn't this one a great deal smaller?
-
It involves a new digital board so hopefully we can keep the costs down from the original upgrade price which involved a backboard and faceplate as well..
As I said it really is much to early to give everyone a price at this point.
james
-
Hello James,
Please try to keep the cost down for the DSP upgrade but don't cut corners :D . If you can breakdown the upgrade and have different price points. We (current SP1.7 owners) already paid the price of admission. 8) I am interested in performance rather than cosmetic changes. Then we have a win, win situation.
Levi
-
All your points are well taken.
james
-
Will there be a process for a 'total' upgrade from an SP1? I was holding off on upgrading my SP1, but, will likey get ready for the .7 upgrade and then wait for the next.
-
Hi gaderson,
I think we will be able to do the SP1 to the new SP but have no idea on price yet.
james
-
Hi gaderson,
I think we will be able to do the SP1 to the new SP but have no idea on price yet.
james
-
Hey James, what about nicolas' question from his previous post --
"Oh, and another question, actually - what's on the "digital board" apart from the DSP chip? Will you be changing the DACs, for example?"
Are we in for a Christmas bonus -- Could the 1.7 be taking a very BIG step forward and its being kept under wraps?
-
Hi,
We will be using the same DAC's in the upgrade.
james
-
Hi James,
On some other forums, I've been touting my 1.7 and the about to be released upgrade. Some posters have been asking me for a list of the expected new features from the upgrade, and all I've been able to tell them is some of the piecemeal items that have slowly filtered through over the past year. I would think at this point, you could "un-offically" on this Forum post a list of the new features/specs one can expect. Could you do this?
-
Some of the new features are set but there are still many features we have not implimented yet with software.
I will try and put a list together.
james
-
New Features
·RS-232 Software Updates
·DSP Firmware Updates via SPDIF
·New TI Aureus Audio DSP Chip
·7 x greater Processing Power
·DTS 96/24 5.1 Surround Decoding
·Dolby 96/24 Two-Channel Surround PLIIX Decoding
·Four Independent Hi-Pass Subwoofer Crossover Points:Left/Right Front, Center, Left/Right Surrounds, Left/Right Backs
·7.1 Decoding from 2-Channel source in Dolby PLIIX Music & Film Modes
·7.1 Decoding from 2-Channel source in DTS NEO6 Music & Cinema Modes
·7.1 Surround Effects Decoding from 2-Channel sources
·96/24 Matrix Surround Modes in 5.1
·Dynamic Range Adjustment per Individual Input
·New faster Micro-controller Board
James
-
Thanks for the fast response!
Very cool.
-
Dynamic Range Adjustment per Individual Input
That sounds interesting - can you tell us how it compares with the existing DRC control? Is it exactly the same except on a per-input basis, or does it do other things (e.g. different level settings, applying to non-DD material, etc.) ?
-
It is the same as now except per input.
james
-
New Features
·RS-232 Software Updates
·DSP Firmware Updates via SPDIF
·New TI Aureus Audio DSP Chip
·7 x greater Processing Power
·DTS 96/24 5.1 Surround Decoding
·Dolby 96/24 Two-Channel Surround PLIIX Decoding
·Four Independent Hi-Pass Subwoofer Crossover Points:Left/Right Front, Center, Left/Right Surrounds, Left/Right Backs
·7.1 Decoding from 2-Channel source in Dolby PLIIX Music & Film Modes
·7.1 Decoding from 2-Channel source in DTS NEO6 Music & Cinema Modes
·7.1 Surrou ...
How much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s are we talking about to upgrade my SP1.7 :?: :?:
-
BrystonBrad:
It involves a new digital board so hopefully we can keep the costs down from the original upgrade price which involved a backboard and faceplate as well..
As I said it really is much to early to give everyone a price at this point.
james
-
James,
I understand based on reports from CEDIA this week, that Bryston is about to release a new pre/pro, called the "SP2" and that owners of the SP1.7 can send the model back to be retrofitted. I assume this is the long awaited upgrades we have been posting about for quite awhile - And anything new to report after CEDIA? I also understand that a new buyer of the SP2 today would be buying a box with completely new dimensions than the 1.7 -- is that the only difference between the SP2 and the retrofitted 1.7?
-
James,
I understand based on reports from CEDIA this week, that Bryston is about to release a new pre/pro, called the "SP2" and that owners of the SP1.7 can send the model back to be retrofitted. I assume this is the long awaited upgrades we have been posting about for quite awhile - And anything new to report after CEDIA? I also understand that a new buyer of the SP2 today would be buying a box with completely new dimensions than the 1.7 -- is that the only difference between the SP2 and the retrofitted 1.7?
Sounds like a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for us current SP1.7 owners to upgrade to this new SP2. :nono:
-
Sounds like a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for us current SP1.7 owners to upgrade to this new SP2. :nono:
Did my post imply major bucks? I did not mean it to.
I have no idea of the incremental cost for us 1.7 owners.
But, (and a very big but), if you use the 1.7 for home theater then this upgrade is very critical since it will result in the processing power which will certainly be needed to run next generation Hi Def audio formats (DTS HD and Dolby HD). I assume that the next upgrade will be hardware related such as HDMI which appears to be the winner for delivering the next gen formats.
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The SP2 is exactly the same chassis as the SP1.7. It is using the C-Series cosmetics and a new Digital board and micro-processor board.
It is still a few months out.
james
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The SP2 is exactly the same chassis as the SP1.7. It is using the C-Series cosmetics and a new Digital board and micro-processor board.
It is still a few months out.
james
Phew! I almost cried reading Adz's post about the SP2 earlier today having just "pulled the trigger" on a Lexicon MC8 over the weekend (got tired of waiting for the updated SP1.7 to be ready! :( ) I would have been gutted if the SP2 started appearing at my local dealer in the next couple of weeks!
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The SP2 is exactly the same chassis as the SP1.7. It is using the C-Series cosmetics and a new Digital board and micro-processor board.
It is still a few months out.
james
Does this mean the upgrade for sp1.7 will be equal to the new sp2 internally.
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Yes.
And I just learned we should be able to get the SP2 out very soon.
james
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Does this mean the sp1.7 upgrade is imminent too
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Yes - should be available at the same time.
james
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Yes - should be available at the same time.
james
James, am I right in cpncluding that Bryston is addressing the additional processing power in the SP2 to lay the foundation for the next upgrade to handle the Hi Def audio formats to be released in the near future from DTS and Dolby Digital?
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Hi,
Dolby and DTS have not sent any information to us regarding their next generation HD formats. Basically, they have been announced, but not released. The only thing I know about Dolby HD is that it allows for 7.1 channels of 96/24, and it uses lossless compression.
For the SP2 as far as I know it should be able to handle it as a firmware upgrade.
Complicating things further, they may only allow Dolby HD over HDMI.
Anyway, this new format is designed to run on HD-DVD and BluRay, which are both set for release in mid 2006. I expect we'll get some more information before the end of the year but if any of you out there have input I am all ears.
james
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Complicating things further, they may only allow Dolby HD over HDMI
Is it even physically possible to send that kind of signal over S/PDIF? I didn't think there was enough bandwidth.
Does this mean that the SP2 (and upgraded SP1.7?) will be able to accept an audio signal via HDMI? If so, is that another, later upgrade, or will it be included in the next one?
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HI,
Yes we would have to add the HDMI connector when and if the high res digital becomes available.
james
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Hi,
Some more input:
Both of the new DD and DTS Hi-Res formats are extensions of the current DTS and DD standards, that are designed to take advantage of the vast amount of extra space available on the Blu-ray and DVD HD formats. Both allow more than the 8 channels of audio that the new disc standards are limited to, and include compression ratios that vary from the current rate up to lossless.
The problem is that the software industry attitude out there seems to be that 95% of the population doesn't know the difference between good audio and better audio, and that most software producers will opt to use the extra space for something profitable, like more trailers and/or commercials.
The SP2 would require a high bandwidth digital connection like HDMI or IEEE-1394 in order for the benefits to be realized.
A conspiracy theorist, would probably see this as nothing more than industry forcing the public to use one of the "copy protection" schemes that are mandatory with these connections.
james
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Copy protection sucks, but a high-bandwidth digital audio protocol is many years overdue. A high-bandwidth, asynchronous digital audio protocol would be better still.
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Copy protection sucks, but a high-bandwidth digital audio protocol is many years overdue. A high-bandwidth, asynchronous digital audio protocol would be better still.
Yeah, a IEEE1394 would be nice, especially if it was 'backward compatible' with the various SACD/DVD-A players' outputs. But, with HDMI, you're stuck. I've been reading about some of the new scalars (the new DVDO VP30) and whether it could strip out the audio from the HDMI and output it to the S/PDIF outputs, and the answer was NO. Since the HDCP (license) only allows HDMI inputs to go out as HDMI (or DVI-D). That would then mean we'd need at the least a HDMI pass-thru for the next rev of the SP2, ruining the video seperate from audio that I love about my SP1. But, someone at CEDIA did note that when questioning various manufactures about their HD disc players that IEE1394 outs were in the mix (but, not defenitive).