AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Low Wattage Systems => Topic started by: Kray on 10 Dec 2020, 10:30 pm
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I have a 45 based amp at about 1.5w and a 42 based at about 2w
I currently only have a pair of Omega Super Alnico XRS towers and a 10" REL speed woofer.
I love the Omega, but just looking for a second pair of speakers and maybe a bit more efficiency.
I'd like to keep it under $1500 used, and was considering the Zu Soul's
Would love some recommendation to look up.
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Might be easier to buy a more powerful P-P amp given your budget. Probably give you new insight into your Omega's as well. Most of the speakers that would be truly happy with all music genres given only 2 watts are as big as a washing machine and run 5 figures cost wise. Really depends on how loud you listen, what you listen to and room size, but 2 watts leaves you extremely limited IMHO.
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There is a Zu Audio Omen Dirty Weekend special going right if you do not mind the wait. Used Klipsch are another option.
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There is a Zu Audio Omen Dirty Weekend special going right if you do not mind the wait. Used Klipsch are another option.
Used to own a pair of DW’s and liked them. Why I’m considering Souls. I just prefer to try the Souls vs another pair of DW’s
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+1 on used Klipsch.
The big RF7 are 101 or 100dB.
The RF7 have some space tô improvment.
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Used to own a pair of DW’s and liked them. Why I’m considering Souls. I just prefer to try the Souls vs another pair of DW’s
I have a friend who has had both the DW's and the Souls. According to him, the Souls were noticeably more efficient. That said, he drove them a 24 watt 845 based SET. He felt that was a near perfect power range that still allowed ample headroom. I've had DW's for a couple years and I drive them with a 60 watt P-P tube amp. To me they do their best when played fairly loud. As always YMMV.
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Was fascinated by SET's 20 years ago, but could never find a practical loudspeaker to pair with them. Options seem to have improved since, but the laws of physics are hard to overcome. Nearly all the SET lovers I met had conditioned themselves to ignore/disdain deep bass, it was weird. Your current solution (single driver/subwoofer) is probably the best you can do.
Had a 7 wpc class T amp years ago that hit well beyond it's rating driving 90 dB/w/m single driver loudspeakers that were rated down to 30 Hz. It did remarkably well handling the load, but upgrading to 40 watt mono-blocks turned the loudspeakers from polite dinner guests into NFL linebackers in tuxedos (more macro dynamics, detail, and better imaging). You really want the amp to have a commanding grip on the loudspeakers to get the most out of them. The lesson here: pick loudspeaker first, then shop for a complementary amp.
Klipsch is notorious for over rating their efficiency. Plus note that complex crossovers rob more power than ratings might suggest.
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Exactly. The only Klipsch's that "might" work with 2 watts would start with the Cornwall and move on to the Klipschorn. Still be limited in dynamics and missing any headroom to speak of. Fine if your entire library is girl/guitar and acoustic jazz trios.
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Exactly. The only Klipsch's that "might" work with 2 watts would start with the Cornwall and move on to the Klipschorn. Still be limited in dynamics and missing any headroom to speak of. Fine if your entire library is girl/guitar and acoustic jazz trios.
What spl levels do you listen at? :scratch:
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I see no reason to a audiophile seek constantly speaker performance under 40/50Hz this can lead to frustration or the use of a active sub or worse a total dsp active speaker, a person must avoid the upgraditis virus.
In case of lack of amp power or inefficient speaker I would suggest a Class D amp as DAC STM or Nuprime that are know to be very transparent, not a PP tube amp.
Yet there is the reasonable option to use a big FR driver as Lii F15 $399/pair in a big 300L BR box what certainly will satisfy any bass head, a 15'' FR is not a small feature, to get an idea how it is rare Iam in audio since the 1970s and never seen one in person let alone listen it.
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What spl levels do you listen at? :scratch:
Mid 80's with low 90 peaks. This derived from a free iphone app, so not sure on accuracy. That said, the room is above average in size. Heresy 3's driven by a Latino ST70 supplemented by a pair of HSU subs. Ample headroom with a nice sense of ease. Basically like the results provided by 35-40 watts, but that's just me. As always YMMV.
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Let me clarify as seems some of the comments are not matching with intention
I LOVE my tube amps and Omega Speakers... with the sub it's an amazing experience. I am fully satisfied with it.
I have three tube amps... all along the line of 2-4wpc. So I am looking for a second set of speakers to add to my collection.
I am NOT going solid state or digital and don't want P-P tubes either. I am off the amp merry go round with my 45 and 42.
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Two words... DIY and Altec!
Its easier than you think and can easily make your budget.
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I have a 45 based amp at about 1.5w and a 42 based at about 2w
I currently only have a pair of Omega Super Alnico XRS towers and a 10" REL speed woofer.
I love the Omega, but just looking for a second pair of speakers and maybe a bit more efficiency.
I'd like to keep it under $1500 used, and was considering the Zu Soul's
Would love some recommendation to look up.
One other thing you can try to squeeze more dynamics out of your current speakers is to use an in-line capacitor to roll off the mid/low bass before that signal hits your main amp. Then get a 2nd sub and run your bass in stereo. This will let you get the most bang for those 2 watts with those main speakers.
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Two words... DIY and Altec!
Its easier than you think and can easily make your budget.
Thanks! I've thought about DIY with Coral or Lii drivers too
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One other thing you can try to squeeze more dynamics out of your current speakers is to use an in-line capacitor to roll off the mid/low bass before that signal hits your main amp. Then get a 2nd sub and run your bass in stereo. This will let you get the most bang for those 2 watts with those main speakers.
Interesting! I'm happy with them now but sounds like an simple tweak to try
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I have a 45 based amp at about 1.5w and a 42 based at about 2w
I currently only have a pair of Omega Super Alnico XRS towers and a 10" REL speed woofer.
I love the Omega, but just looking for a second pair of speakers and maybe a bit more efficiency.
I'd like to keep it under $1500 used, and was considering the Zu Soul's
Would love some recommendation to look up.
If you post your question in the Talkin’ Tubes section on the Klipsch forum you will get a very different, and far more accurate, assessment of using their speakers with very low power amps. Don’t believe anyone who tells you that you need higher power to achieve glorious results
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If you post your question in the Talkin’ Tubes section on the Klipsch forum you will get a very different, and far more accurate, assessment of using their speakers with very low power amps. Don’t believe anyone who tells you that you need higher power to achieve glorious results
When I had H1s a 2 watt Grommes SET EL84 was more than enough in a 12 x14 room.
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I've thought about DIY with Coral or Lii drivers too
If you have room to pull speakers out from the front wall OBs will give you a different presentation than the Omegas.
The Lii single driver in a box will be more similar to the Omegas.
https://www.decware.com/newsite/Liiaudio.html
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When I had H1s a 2 watt Grommes SET EL84 was more than enough in a 12 x14 room.
I heard that very Grommes amp driving Wilson Watt/Puppy 8's once. This at decent levels as well. That is certainly the strongest 2 watts I've ever heard, especially considering it was coming from an EL84. Needless to say everyone present really wanted to hear this amp's true potential with a speaker approaching 100 db in efficiency.
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I heard that very Grommes amp driving Wilson Watt/Puppy 8's once. This at decent levels as well. That is certainly the strongest 2 watts I've ever heard, especially considering it was coming from an EL84. Needless to say everyone present really wanted to hear this amp's true potential with a speaker approaching 100 db in efficiency.
It can be switched to pentode for 5 watts.
Sorry for the off topic OP. :oops:
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I have used the 45 tube on all my Klipsch speakers, omega, and Altec. Currently using a modified Belle. I tried more power and doesn't seem to make a difference to me.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218174)
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I have used the 45 tube on all my Klipsch speakers, omega, and Altec. Currently using a modified Belle. I tried more power and doesn't seem to make a difference to me.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218174)
Very nice! is that a Oliver Sayes or Thomas Mayer?
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yeah Thomas Mayer. I have an sonic_oil at my desktop, with Omega cams.
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yeah Thomas Mayer. I have an sonic_oil at my desktop, with Omega cams.
You mean sonic_OLI as in Oliver :D
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If I am not mistaken you have two Oliver Sayes amps. One happens to be designed by Thomas Mayer.
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I have used the 45 tube on all my Klipsch speakers, omega, and Altec. Currently using a modified Belle. I tried more power and doesn't seem to make a difference to me.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218174)
Very nice on the Klipsch! I am assuming crossovers by Al Klappenberger, and a nice waveguide from Dave Harris, aka Fastlane Eliptrac 400! Welcome back to constant directivity, enjoy!
Best,
Anand.
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ahhh Sonic_ OLI funny :D
Anand, yup Al's extreme slope. AND to your liking, i'm sure, I also have Duke's swarm. I have to say that could be my best purchase. I'm sure it helps my lower power amps, and all my speaker choices. Also i direct my horns to cross about a foot in front of my listening position.
On topic for the op. I had my Omega HO sams with 45amp and also used a 300b. But I loved my 45 so much I want to find a speaker more suited. That brought me into the Klipsch world. Then that opened my eyes to the power of a horn. And the weird thing is most of the Klipsch guys use high powered solid state amps. And most of us here would never use Klipsch.
go figure
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Thanks! I've thought about DIY with Coral or Lii drivers too
oh yeah i have these too. I started with the raw drivers, then picked up these locally. Also worked for me.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218260)
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Lii Audio's new Silver 10 in their cabinet, not sure of the price:
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1607832814/12#12
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Oliver has an 801a amp he just finished that is pretty insane. 4W, but fancy iron. So its going to be $$$.
Shawn
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Sorry to barge in, but I have two quick things to say. The first is that I keep reading good reports/posts/impressions from excited Lii owners declaring how much they love them. It makes me want to try a pair.
The second is to admonish guf. It's photos such as this one of your listening room that make me really want to buy more speakers and/or low powered tube amps to further experience the joys of great audio.....yet my doing so could easily create problems in my marriage. :duh: What's an addict enthusiast to do?
Michael
oh yeah i have these too. I started with the raw drivers, then picked up these locally. Also worked for me.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218260)
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Years ago, when I started building single ended tube amps, I had a pair of ADS L810 which are rated at 94 DB/W/M. The first few amps I built were triode connected EL84 amps with around 2 watts. The ADS L810 did need a bit more power than 2 watts for some music, but were fine most of the time in my previous listening room (16' X 4' X 8'). The next set of speakers I bought were Klipsch Quartets (97.5 DB/W/M), followed soon after by Klipsch Heresy II (96 DB/W/M). These two are both obviously louder than the ADS with the same 2 watts, and just loud enough for my new listening room. For me, given 2.5 watts for a 45 amp, I would want 96 DB/W/M at a minimum in my current listening room (25' X 16' X 7'). I now mostly use La Scalas at 104 DB/W/M, and 2.5 watts with this sensitivity is crazy loud at full volume. If I were you, I would be looking for speakers with 96 DB/W/M sensitivity at a minimum, and ideally would want 100+ DB/W/M.
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oh yeah i have these too. I started with the raw drivers, then picked up these locally. Also worked for me.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218260)
These have been on my radar for a while... what's your take on them?
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Oliver has an 801a amp he just finished that is pretty insane. 4W, but fancy iron. So its going to be $$$.
Shawn
Drool.... :drool:
Oliver is building me a 26 based dual chassis preamp right now, but next I think I'll get a 801a or 421a amp built by Oliver.
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It seems few are answering the OP's question about high sensitivity/high efficiency speakers for flea watt amps. These are the manufacturers that come to mind: Vaughn, Volti, WLM, Daedalus, Charney. I recommend looking at the PDF at the bottom of the AVSForum list of high sensitivity/high efficiency speaker list. The PDF is a static table with a lot of data on speakers, or you can get the sortable spreadsheet, to sort by sensitivity. Lots to choose from, although the list hasn't been updated with newer manufacturers.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/list-of-reference-level-high-sensitivity-spl-speakers.1387083/
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It seems few are answering the OP's question about high sensitivity/high efficiency speakers for flea watt amps. These are the manufacturers that come to mind: Vaughn, Volti, WLM, Daedalus, Charney.
Which one of those are you finding for $1500 used? :o
Part of the OP's request.
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Old thread but still applicable for the peanut gallery.
1,500 and low watt friendly doesn't leave lots of options. I know because this is the price point I have hunted for a long time.
Lii has options.
Omegas has a couple of options.
It quickly turns into buying drivers and building your own baffles or cabinets.