AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: TJHUB on 22 Mar 2011, 05:41 pm
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I am contemplating going subless with my setup. Besides 2-channel, I also use my HT2-TL's for home theater use. To experiment today, I disconnected my sub and ran Audyssey on my receiver running the HT2's full range.
I've measured down to 20Hz with my HT2's in my room. They sound very capable overall. So to test if I can live without a sub for HT, I watched "The Incredibles" as it's the last movie I watched with the kids while running dual Submersive HP's. That was fun!!
Overall, I'd say the Salk's are entertaining enough for HT. The bass is low and deep, but obviously nothing like the dual Submersives. Anyway, one scene in the movie seemed to produced a floppy sound from the right speaker. There was no mechanical sounds like voice coils bottoming out. It sounded more like drivers being over extended. I measure the db level during this scene at 100db at my listening position which is 13' away from the speakers in a ~6,500cF room with large openings to other large rooms.
This got me wondering how far the W18 can be pushed before it gets damaged. Is the floppy noise the limit and damage is eminent? Or, can the W18 take this abuse without damage as long as it's not getting bottomed out?
I run a pair of Odyssey Stratos Extreme SE mono blocks. I think they are over 300w @ 4ohms, but I'm not certain.
Thoughts?
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^^^
good question... i've played mine at significant volume for movies, but never full range at that volume (and given my room/setup, likely never pushed nearly as much as you did in your experiment through them)... jim being jim though, i'm sure he'd take care of us if we managed to blow one...
i've always used the submersive with mine for ht... that being said, i have fed them some low frequency music and pushed them really hard, and i've never gotten a "floppy" sound... it's fun to watch the w-18's pump back and forth... :)
dang tj, you got 2 of them there and you are turning them off??? i'm coming to steal 'em!!! :D
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I can't answer your direct question but working backwards from your listening position, which at 13 feet is almost exactly 4 meters, at 1 meter from the speakers, the SPL should be close to 112 dB.
Paul
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^^^
good question... i've played mine at significant volume for movies, but never full range at that volume (and given my room/setup, likely never pushed nearly as much as you did in your experiment through them)... jim being jim though, i'm sure he'd take care of us if we managed to blow one...
i've always used the submersive with mine for ht... that being said, i have fed them some low frequency music and pushed them really hard, and i've never gotten a "floppy" sound... it's fun to watch the w-18's pump back and forth... :)
dang tj, you got 2 of them there and you are turning them off??? i'm coming to steal 'em!!! :D
I know it seems ridiculous regarding my subs. Actually one is mine and the other is on loan from a friend to test dual subs in my room. They are actually both for sale, but I'm having second thoughts about selling mine.
The "floppy" sound came when the rocket was launching. I looked at the W18's and they looked like they were moving back and forth about 3"! (slight exaggeration) :D :D
I know Jim would replace a driver if it blew, but I don't ever want it to come to that. Plus I couldn't allow Jim to replace something I damaged while being and idiot. That's the reason for the question. What can they take?
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That "floppy" sound is most likely the drivers reaching their XMAX. The lower you make the speakers play, the sooner the XMAX will be reached. If you use Audessey and it boosts the low frequencies at all, the drivers can reach their XMAX quite early. Remember, the lower the frequency, the more air you have to move. And you can only move so much air with a 7" driver. Eventually the XMAX will be exceeded and while the W18's are fairly robust, driver damage can occur.
- Jim
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Hey TJ, if you had a better amp the woofers would already be lying on the floor! :duh: JK
Sounds like the crossover is a little low right now?
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That "floppy" sound is most likely the drivers reaching their XMAX. The lower you make the speakers play, the sooner the XMAX will be reached. If you use Audessey and it boosts the low frequencies at all, the drivers can reach their XMAX quite early. Remember, the lower the frequency, the more air you have to move. And you can only move so much air with a 7" driver. Eventually the XMAX will be exceeded and while the W18's are fairly robust, driver damage can occur.
- Jim
Right--I think that's why God created subwoofers.
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That "floppy" sound is most likely the drivers reaching their XMAX. The lower you make the speakers play, the sooner the XMAX will be reached. If you use Audessey and it boosts the low frequencies at all, the drivers can reach their XMAX quite early. Remember, the lower the frequency, the more air you have to move. And you can only move so much air with a 7" driver. Eventually the XMAX will be exceeded and while the W18's are fairly robust, driver damage can occur.
- Jim
Thanks for the response Jim. I figured as much. At least I know the limits now. :D
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Hey TJ, if you had a better amp the woofers would already be lying on the floor! :duh: JK
Sounds like the crossover is a little low right now?
I was waiting for you to respond. :D I figured you had to have the W18's maxed out a few times already. It would seem I have plenty of power to put the W18's "on the floor" if I wanted to...
This test was running the HT2-TL's full-range, so yes, the crossover is a "little" low right now. :wink: I wish my receiver has a subsonic filter I could use.
It looks like going subless is going to be much more difficult than I thought. Oh well.
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Terry,
The HT2-TL's perform surprisingly well sans-subwoofer in your huge room; better than I ever imagined. However, for movies there is just no way. We'll get your subwoofer situation figured out man, but until then I'd hang on to that Submersive. Just my $0.02
P.S. I see dual LMS 18's, or maybe even quads (dual opposed) in your future. :thumb:
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Terry,
The HT2-TL's perform surprisingly well sans-subwoofer in your huge room; better than I ever imagined. However, for movies there is just no way. We'll get your subwoofer situation figured out man, but until then I'd hang on to that Submersive. Just my $0.02
P.S. I see dual LMS 18's, or maybe even quads (dual opposed) in your future. :thumb:
Hey Brandon. You're right. There is no way I'll be able to go without a sub for movies. I tried...
I have a buyer coming on Saturday, so potentially no Submersive after that. BUT, our friend Patrick says I can hang onto his Submersive until the DIY project is done. :thumb: Isn't he the greatest? :D
There are potentially dual 18" LMS's in my future. I'm very worried about a few things. I really hope this turns out for the better.
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i am right in the middle of re-building my system around my HT2-TLs to incorporate dual subs. i will (hopefully soon) be getting a parasound P-7 preamp which will allow me to do 2 channel bass management and also incorporate my HT system. i will be getting dual 15" rythmik subs - my hope is that they will be perfect for music and also give a pretty good punch for HT (i could always run them a bit hot for movies if needed but i'm not sure i will need to). add in an antimode to smooth out the 2 channel bass and that's my plan. i have a feeling it will work out well, i will give a little mini report (not my usual 3 page affair :oops: ) when i get it together.
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Hey Terry,
I am surprised you even considered going subless :duh: :green: I tried running my ascend Towers without my Rythmik full range and for movies and even some music, they just dont reach low enough for that extra low material. In room my towers are putting out solid SPL's around 30hz but with the new soundtsracks on some blu-rays, its just not enough without the Rythmik. Ever since you opted for the preamp without the HT bypass option, it seems like you have been struggling with the sub integration. I am glad I kept my 2100, without the HT bypass, things get quite tricky. Like Nuance mentioned, keep the submerssive, I heard Patricks (the one you have now) and its a great sub! Based on what the boys have told me and your posts, I am not sure a different sub is the answer for you but rather the way it integrates into your specific setup, again just my opinion:)
I am hoping to try and narrow down a date for all of us to GTG. I do want to hear your setup or at least the HT2-TL's one of these days too!
Brandon
Hey Brandon. You're right. There is no way I'll be able to go without a sub for movies. I tried...
I have a buyer coming on Saturday, so potentially no Submersive after that. BUT, our friend Patrick says I can hang onto his Submersive until the DIY project is done. :thumb: Isn't he the greatest? :D
There are potentially dual 18" LMS's in my future. I'm very worried about a few things. I really hope this turns out for the better.
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Hey Terry,
I am surprised you even considered going subless :duh: :green: I tried running my ascend Towers without my Rythmik full range and for movies and even some music, they just dont reach low enough for that extra low material. In room my towers are putting out solid SPL's around 30hz but with the new soundtsracks on some blu-rays, its just not enough without the Rythmik. Ever since you opted for the preamp without the HT bypass option, it seems like you have been struggling with the sub integration. I am glad I kept my 2100, without the HT bypass, things get quite tricky. Like Nuance mentioned, keep the submerssive, I heard Patricks (the one you have now) and its a great sub! Based on what the boys have told me and your posts, I am not sure a different sub is the answer for you but rather the way it integrates into your specific setup, again just my opinion:)
I am hoping to try and narrow down a date for all of us to GTG. I do want to hear your setup or at least the HT2-TL's one of these days too!
Brandon
My story is much more complicated than I have time to type out. I'll tell you all about it when we have our GTG.
I'm struggling with sub integration, yes. But the issue is not my preamp. The preamp I'm running does have HT-bypass (I'll NEVER go without that!), but it doesn't have any bass management or high-pass filter. I have used a few different high-pass filters, but they all seem to degrade the sound to some level. The one that degrades the sound the least (which actually sounds very good) has a very shallow slope that is not enough to pull a bass peak I get with my HT2-TLs completely out of the equation. I'm working on that...
The Submersive is my problem. I don't completely understand why, but it doesn't work well or measure well in my favorite spot. My previous SVS's measured and performed great there, with my PB13-Ultra working so great that I didn't have to use anything more than it's built-in single band parametric to get a flawlessly flat response.
This is when Patrick loaned me his Submersive so I could try duals. This did not work well at all. The subs work together and EQ pretty well, but they collapse my sound stage and make the overall tone seem thick. Dual Submersives is pretty damn fun for HT when running them hot. :thumb: However, I'm a music first guy, so I don't care how fun HT is if the music isn't sounding its best.
In desperation I moved the Submersive behind my listen position (very close). Now this thing sounds freakin' perfect for music. As a matter of fact, I can't tell it's back there at all. The bass is very defined and punchy. The sub also measures perfectly there and I could go without any EQ if I wanted. The problem is that you just can't sit 2 feet from a sub that powerful!! :o Two 15" drivers and 2,400wrms is just too much that close to you. I don't like my couch moving around that much!
So I'm moving on from the Submersive. I'm hoping that going to at least a single 18" LMS with some serious power will measure as good as my previous PB13-Ultra did. My theory is the front firing driver gets located in a good position to sound and measure well vs. the dual opposed design of the Submersive. I've seen many people get them to work perfectly in their rooms, but I sure can't do it unless it's near-field.
I hope I'm not screwing up by selling it as it does perform fantastically behind my listening position. So well, that I'm wondering if ANY sub on my front wall will touch the sound quality. Once you hear something "better", it's always so hard to settle for anything "less." I guess I may be about to find out.
(This is the short story...I have more... :roll: )
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i am right in the middle of re-building my system around my HT2-TLs to incorporate dual subs. i will (hopefully soon) be getting a parasound P-7 preamp which will allow me to do 2 channel bass management and also incorporate my HT system. i will be getting dual 15" rythmik subs - my hope is that they will be perfect for music and also give a pretty good punch for HT (i could always run them a bit hot for movies if needed but i'm not sure i will need to). add in an antimode to smooth out the 2 channel bass and that's my plan. i have a feeling it will work out well, i will give a little mini report (not my usual 3 page affair :oops: ) when i get it together.
That should be a sweet setup. Make sure you tell us all about it once it's all dialed in. For the record, I don't have a problem with a 3 pager if the content is good! :D
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i am right in the middle of re-building my system around my HT2-TLs to incorporate dual subs. i will (hopefully soon) be getting a parasound P-7 preamp which will allow me to do 2 channel bass management and also incorporate my HT system. i will be getting dual 15" rythmik subs - my hope is that they will be perfect for music and also give a pretty good punch for HT (i could always run them a bit hot for movies if needed but i'm not sure i will need to). add in an antimode to smooth out the 2 channel bass and that's my plan. i have a feeling it will work out well, i will give a little mini report (not my usual 3 page affair :oops: ) when i get it together.
That sounds like a fantastic setup. Well done! I look forward to your report (I too prefer long posts :)).
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Terry, just get a Parasound P7. Come on, you know you want to! :D
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Terry,
Thats right, I forgot the preamp has HT bypass just not enough bass management to help out. I understand now, thanks for clarifying. I had similar troubles with the towers. I also was not able to achieve as flat a room response as I did with my previous sierras. With the towers running full range all the time now, EQing the sub was tougher.
Can you ellaborate on what you meant about the duals collapsing your soundstage?
Thats too bad the the SM didnt work out (unless or course it was behind the couch). I also wonder as you do if any sub will fix the issue.....hmmm. All you can do is buy more subs to try :D
I hope either way, you get things dialed in to your liking!
B
My story is much more complicated than I have time to type out. I'll tell you all about it when we have our GTG.
I'm struggling with sub integration, yes. But the issue is not my preamp. The preamp I'm running does have HT-bypass (I'll NEVER go without that!), but it doesn't have any bass management or high-pass filter. I have used a few different high-pass filters, but they all seem to degrade the sound to some level. The one that degrades the sound the least (which actually sounds very good) has a very shallow slope that is not enough to pull a bass peak I get with my HT2-TLs completely out of the equation. I'm working on that...
The Submersive is my problem. I don't completely understand why, but it doesn't work well or measure well in my favorite spot. My previous SVS's measured and performed great there, with my PB13-Ultra working so great that I didn't have to use anything more than it's built-in single band parametric to get a flawlessly flat response.
This is when Patrick loaned me his Submersive so I could try duals. This did not work well at all. The subs work together and EQ pretty well, but they collapse my sound stage and make the overall tone seem thick. Dual Submersives is pretty damn fun for HT when running them hot. :thumb: However, I'm a music first guy, so I don't care how fun HT is if the music isn't sounding its best.
In desperation I moved the Submersive behind my listen position (very close). Now this thing sounds freakin' perfect for music. As a matter of fact, I can't tell it's back there at all. The bass is very defined and punchy. The sub also measures perfectly there and I could go without any EQ if I wanted. The problem is that you just can't sit 2 feet from a sub that powerful!! :o Two 15" drivers and 2,400wrms is just too much that close to you. I don't like my couch moving around that much!
So I'm moving on from the Submersive. I'm hoping that going to at least a single 18" LMS with some serious power will measure as good as my previous PB13-Ultra did. My theory is the front firing driver gets located in a good position to sound and measure well vs. the dual opposed design of the Submersive. I've seen many people get them to work perfectly in their rooms, but I sure can't do it unless it's near-field.
I hope I'm not screwing up by selling it as it does perform fantastically behind my listening position. So well, that I'm wondering if ANY sub on my front wall will touch the sound quality. Once you hear something "better", it's always so hard to settle for anything "less." I guess I may be about to find out.
(This is the short story...I have more... :roll: )
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Terry, just get a Parasound P7. Come on, you know you want to! :D
B.
Thats exactly what I was going to post before you did.....we all liked the parasound 2100 sound, maybe Terry would like the P7's sound even more plus it has more bass managment adjustments. I would totally rock one if I could swing it!
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Right--I think that's why God created subwoofers.
And also why Clint Eastwood said "A man's got to know his speaker's limitations".
He did say that, right?
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100 db you'll need anew ear before a sub. Why so freaking loud?
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That's actually not that loud concerning movies. Movies can have a lot of quiet parts, then crazy loud dynamic parts. With the new lossless audio codecs certain sound effects (such as gunshots and explosions) are sometimes intended to hit over 100dB to give a more realistic experience. I don't recommend watching an entire movie at 100dB or more, but a few quick loud scenes shouldn't kill anyone's ears.
P.S. It's extremely easy to hit 100 dB in the bass regions when watching a movie.
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Terry, just get a Parasound P7. Come on, you know you want to! :D
Jeeze...you Parasound guys... :roll: :wink:
I do miss my Parasound preamp sometimes. It's just that even the P7 is missing one HUGE thing for me...TUBES!!
Sorry guys, I'm a tube guy now. I'll never (I think) go without them again. But if I did, a P7 is number 1 on my list.
Terry,
Thats right, I forgot the preamp has HT bypass just not enough bass management to help out. I understand now, thanks for clarifying. I had similar troubles with the towers. I also was not able to achieve as flat a room response as I did with my previous sierras. With the towers running full range all the time now, EQing the sub was tougher.
Can you ellaborate on what you meant about the duals collapsing your soundstage?
Thats too bad the the SM didnt work out (unless or course it was behind the couch). I also wonder as you do if any sub will fix the issue.....hmmm. All you can do is buy more subs to try :D
I hope either way, you get things dialed in to your liking!
B
To elaborate on the collapsing of my sound stage:
I can't figure this out with any certainty, but something is VERY different when both subs were on the front wall between the speakers. The sound was thicker sounding in the lower midrange. There was a significant decrease in separation of instruments and the sound stage seemed shorter and more narrow. I lost that large, open, airy sound from the speakers. That's about the best I can describe it.
I too am worried that no sub will fix the issue. The only thing I can say is that my PB13-Ultra sounded pretty darn good on the front wall on the inside of my left speaker. I was talking to Brandon about that on the phone just a little while ago. He heard the PB13 there and agrees that it was working very well. I can get the Submersive to measure just as good if not better, but it doesn't sound good there at all. What's even more strange is that I can get it measuring basically the same behind the listening position and it sounds completely different. I'm listening to music with it behind me right now and it sounds amazingly good. Maybe the best I've ever heard.
I'll get it figured out. One day. :)
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That's actually not that loud concerning movies. Movies can have a lot of quiet parts, then crazy loud dynamic parts. With the new lossless audio codecs certain sound effects (such as gunshots and explosions) are sometimes intended to hit over 100dB to give a more realistic experience. I don't recommend watching an entire movie at 100dB or more, but a few quick loud scenes shouldn't kill anyone's ears.
P.S. It's extremely easy to hit 100 dB in the bass regions when watching a movie.
That's exactly right. I don't think the overall movie was loud at all. In that particular scene, all that was happening was a rocket blasting off. The scene was basically all bass and nothing else. It was my speakers trying to reproduce whatever low frequency at 100db.
I wonder what the db level was when we watched the same scene running the dual Submersives...maybe 125db? :icon_lol: The room sure was shaking and the kids looked scared! :thumb:
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TJHUB,
Just out of curiosity, if the SVS was working well, why did you get rid of it?
I've found my SVS 16-46PC+ works very well with my HT2-TLs (at least in my room).
I had a fellow AudioCircle member over this evening to hear my HT2-TLs (he hasn't heard Salks before) and he wanted to hear them full range without the sub. Even with some of the organ music he played, I was surprised how well the HT2-TL held up. It wasn't a good as having the sub, but it was no slouch either. Of course with movies and their sometimes scary bass effects, a good sub is a must for me!
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TJHUB,
Just out of curiosity, if the SVS was working well, why did you get rid of it?
I've found my SVS 16-46PC+ works very well with my HT2-TLs (at least in my room).
I had a fellow AudioCircle member over this evening to hear my HT2-TLs (he hasn't heard Salks before) and he wanted to hear them full range without the sub. Even with some of the organ music he played, I was surprised how well the HT2-TL held up. It wasn't a good as having the sub, but it was no slouch either. Of course with movies and their sometimes scary bass effects, a good sub is a must for me!
The PB13-Ultra is an amazing all around sub. It was a huge step up in sound quality from my previous sub, a 20-39 PC+. SVS's have always been good at the low stuff, but they really seemed to suffer above 50Hz. The PB13-Ultra was decent. The problem was that I always heard a boxy sound from the sub. It was like I could hear the inside of the box when listening to music. This caused me to look for a sub that was sealed and could keep up with the PB13 for HT. Enter the Submersive HP.
The Submersive has no boxy sound whatsoever. It performs flawlessly for music when it the right place in my room. I just wish that same spot worked for HT.
I have actually decided that if my buyer this Saturday falls through, I'm going to keep the Submersive and work with it some more. What I hear for music is so good, I need to figure out if I can get the HT side better by finding yet another alternative spot in my room.
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The PB13-Ultra is an amazing all around sub. It was a huge step up in sound quality from my previous sub, a 20-39 PC+. SVS's have always been good at the low stuff, but they really seemed to suffer above 50Hz. The PB13-Ultra was decent. The problem was that I always heard a boxy sound from the sub. It was like I could hear the inside of the box when listening to music. This caused me to look for a sub that was sealed and could keep up with the PB13 for HT. Enter the Submersive HP.
The Submersive has no boxy sound whatsoever. It performs flawlessly for music when it the right place in my room. I just wish that same spot worked for HT.
I have actually decided that if my buyer this Saturday falls through, I'm going to keep the Submersive and work with it some more. What I hear for music is so good, I need to figure out if I can get the HT side better by finding yet another alternative spot in my room.
I hope you're able to find a way to get the best of both HT and music. Is there a way you could switch between two subs, one optimized for music and another optimized for HT, perhaps using some kind of switch box?
Fortunately, in my case my sub location works very well for both in my room
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I hope you're able to find a way to get the best of both HT and music. Is there a way you could switch between two subs, one optimized for music and another optimized for HT, perhaps using some kind of switch box?
Fortunately, in my case my sub location works very well for both in my room
I'm certain I'll figure this out. I have actually considered a second sub for music only behind the couch. I was thinking a Rythmik 12" for music and keeping the Submersive (or similar monster) for HT in my "normal" position.
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the rythmik 15" subs have that cool dual input amp (optional). you could input your 2 channel into the sub(s) and dial them in for music. then with the HT input, just dial that channel up a little "hotter" using your AVR's bass management.
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the rythmik 15" subs have that cool dual input amp (optional). you could input your 2 channel into the sub(s) and dial them in for music. then with the HT input, just dial that channel up a little "hotter" using your AVR's bass management.
I really wanted to go with Rythmik subs, but after owning subs like the PB13-Ultra and Submersive HP, the Rythmiks are just too underpowered.
I have my future setup all figured out as the buyer for my sub is coming tomorrow. I REALLY hope I don't regret selling the Submersive. After listening to it today, I was wishing the buyer would cancel...
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Have you considered getting a pair of Rythmik Vented Subs (FV15HP)?
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Have you considered getting a pair of Rythmik Vented Subs (FV15HP)?
No. I figured out prefer the sound of sealed subs. It took me 25 years to figure that out. With today's big amps and very capable drivers, sealed subs for HT perform very well.
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The reason for my question was that I saw some comments by Brian Ding about the vented subs where he said the sound quality was very close to the sealed versions (although he still preferred the sealed subs).
But I certainly understand your comments. I have two Rythmik F15HP sealed subs because I wanted the best sound quality.
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No. I figured out prefer the sound of sealed subs. It took me 25 years to figure that out. With today's big amps and very capable drivers, sealed subs for HT perform very well.
What do you have in mind for subs going forward? I know you said the Rythmiks lack power for you, would duals not be enough? I'm sure we will be chatting about it next Saturday as well:)
B
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What do you have in mind for subs going forward? I know you said the Rythmiks lack power for you, would duals not be enough? I'm sure we will be chatting about it next Saturday as well:)
B
At this point, I'll be going cheap. There is a DIY project in my near future. I'll tell you all about it next Saturday. :wink:
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At this point, I'll be going cheap. There is a DIY project in my near future. I'll tell you all about it next Saturday. :wink:
It's a doozy! :)
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At this point, I'll be going cheap. There is a DIY project in my near future. I'll tell you all about it next Saturday. :wink:
I thought it might be DIY:) I have a feeling Patrick's behind this :thumb:
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I thought it might be DIY:) I have a feeling Patrick's behind this :thumb:
You do know what a bad influence he is. :wink:
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You do know what a bad influence he is. :wink:
Thats for sure!
You two will soon be attending the BHA meetings.
(bass head anonymous)
Hi, My name is Terry and I have a problem......
:green:
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Thats for sure!
You two will soon be attending the BHA meetings.
(bass head anonymous)
Hi, My name is Terry and I have a problem......
:green:
Yeah. Isn't Patrick the President of BHA? :D
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Yeah. Isn't Patrick the President of BHA? :D
He certainly is. But seriously, without him I may have never known what truly amazing bass sounds like, and all for much less than even a Submersive costs. DIY is the way to go, and if powered by one of TC sounds drivers you'll never turn back or wonder what could have been. I still love my "little" TC2000 15 inchers.
P.S. We have to refer to Patrick as "Lord Patrick," as he now owns land in Ireland. :D
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He certainly is. But seriously, without him I may have never known what truly amazing bass sounds like, and all for much less than even a Submersive costs. DIY is the way to go, and if powered by one of TC sounds drivers you'll never turn back or wonder what could have been. I still love my "little" TC2000 15 inchers.
P.S. We have to refer to Patrick as "Lord Patrick," as he now owns land in Ireland. :D
We are truly lucky to know "Lord Patrick". He has spent a lot of time and money figuring out the ultimate in bass, and we get all the benefits. Not to mention he is just a great guy to hang with. :thumb:
And yes, those "little" TC2000 15 inchers are pretty amazing. Especially since one of us doesn't even need any EQ now! I sure wish that would happen for me!!
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We are truly lucky to know "Lord Patrick". He has spent a lot of time and money figuring out the ultimate in bass, and we get all the benefits. Not to mention he is just a great guy to hang with. :thumb:
And yes, those "little" TC2000 15 inchers are pretty amazing. Especially since one of us doesn't even need any EQ now! I sure wish that would happen for me!!
I don't think many people realize there are *very* few pairs of loudspeakers that can be run full range without a subwoofer for both movies and music. All the capable speakers I am aware of are neither small, inexpensive, nor lightweight (130LBS+ each in my experience).
Please definitely keep me posted on your progress with your new subwoofers...I *love* (learning more about) bass!
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We are truly lucky to know "Lord Patrick". He has spent a lot of time and money figuring out the ultimate in bass, and we get all the benefits. Not to mention he is just a great guy to hang with. :thumb:
Aint that the truth!
And yes, those "little" TC2000 15 inchers are pretty amazing. Especially since one of us doesn't even need any EQ now! I sure wish that would happen for me!!
Hehe. Thanks for your help on Sat; my system sounds better than it ever has in the past in many ways.
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Just got back from my meeting at BHA, I think I'm a failure - as I just heard low order thumping in my head all the while they were talking.....
Terry, seems you forgot to update these fine gents here about your upgrade path in the bass dept...
BTW - its Scotland for Lord Patrick... :D
Stopped by here to post the sale of my Submersive in the selling area - for anyone thats in the market for a slightly used Submersive HP in espresso...
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Just got back from my meeting at BHA, I think I'm a failure - as I just heard low order thumping in my head all the while they were talking.....
Terry, seems you forgot to update these fine gents here about your upgrade path in the bass dept...
BTW - its Scotland for Lord Patrick... :D
Stopped by here to post the sale of my Submersive in the selling area - for anyone thats in the market for a slightly used Submersive HP in espresso...
Meeting? You leading them now? :lol:
I guess I forgot all about this thread. So here's what I did...
Dual 18" TC Sounds LMS Ultras in 24" cubes:
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a90/TJHUB/Home%20Stereo/DSC06688.jpg)
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For what it's worth, Terry still has the best sounding music system I've heard in anyone's home environment, especially with the edition of those incredible LMS subwoofers. No commercial sub can touch those things in my opinion.
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Those subs are massive! You should put a beer can or reference in front of them so people can get a true impression Those amps look like little toys and they are pretty good sized.
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For what it's worth, Terry still has the best sounding music system I've heard in anyone's home environment, especially with the edition of those incredible LMS subwoofers. No commercial sub can touch those things in my opinion.
Thanks man. That means a lot coming from you. And I agree, I haven't heard anything as good as the LMS drivers.
Those subs are massive! You should put a beer can or reference in front of them so people can get a true impression Those amps look like little toys and they are pretty good sized.
The subs used to look massive, but now they just seem normal to me. :D
For reference, that is a 58" plasma on the wall. Here are a couple of photos for fun:
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a90/TJHUB/Home%20Stereo/DSC06669.jpg)
Can you see the little blue thing? That's a blu-ray case.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a90/TJHUB/Home%20Stereo/DSC06722.jpg)