AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Audio by Van Alstine => Topic started by: Mike-48 on 17 Sep 2014, 07:13 am
-
I am enjoying my new Fet Valve amp, which is the first piece of gear I've owned with tubes in 45 years. I leave my solid-state gear running (or in standby mode), but that doesn't seem like a great idea for tubes. To my ears, about 30 min of warmup seems to benefit the Fet Valve. I'm wondering what others think or what AVA recommends.
-
Here's what Frank had to say on the subject a while ago:
I actually agree that audio equipment does take some warm up time. However I strongly urge that the equipment not be left on all the time. Doing this risks having minor faults turn into major catsastrophies if the fault occurs while you are not there and one failure causes excessive current through other parts, causing more failures and on and on. Leaving it on all the time kinda is a "friend of OPEC" attitude too. (Although I should talk, my S6 rocketship eats gas at an astonishing rate if I drive it like I would like to drive it - darn that instant on radar. :) )
Anyway ---- in general our solid state stuff is up and running really well in about half a second. Probably 15 minutes for everything inside to get to get nice and warm and comfy and happy about playing music really well
Our tube and hybrid stuff needs about 5 minutes to really start playing well, and half an hour or so to be really happy.
Both the solid state and tube/hybrid AVA products are very stable and safe for the rest of your system immediately after turn-on, no nasty DC level shifts that can damage speakers.
Best best, turn them on, then go get that glass of wine, your significant other, put on comfy robes (www.pajamagrams.com), settle back in that big recliner built for two, and enjoy.
Frank Van Alstine
Hope this helps.
Cornelis
-
Mike,
I'm considering ordering a 400R for myself. Could you describe your impressions when you switched from your old amp to the Fet Valve? I've got a Synergy 240/3 mated to an AVA T8 tube preamp for two-channel sound. I really like the combination, but I'm looking for even better sound.
Michael
-
Michael,
My reaction when I switched from my old amp? Surprisingly hard to do, because I'm setting up a new system in a new room with new speakers and new electronics! I think it's a very, very good amp that doesn't have quite the grunt of my old Bryston 14B (at 3 or 4 times the power). However, the Fet Valve 400R does have (more important to me) excellent tonality and still very good control. It has better timbre reproduction, to my ears, than the Marsh Sound Design A400S I used in the interim.
A professional mastering engineer was over to hear the system yesterday, and I played a Norah Jones cut for him that I'd heard at his shop. He looked at me, a little befuddled, and said it was really nice. Then: "I've always thought there was something wrong with the vocals on that album, but there was NOTHING wrong with it right now." He thought it was probably an $8k amp.
Hope that helps.
Mike
-
Michael, I was able to take a 600R home to audition and got to hear one compared to a Synergy amp at Franks. The 400 and 600R's are different animals compared to the Synergy amps. Both are excellent but the R amps are simply in another league. They perform way above their price points comparing to amps in the $6k range. The R amps are more musical and dynamic with deep, tight musical bass and natural sounding highs. The low level dynamics are excellent, better than my Pass X250 amp. The R amps have more air and transparency and a wide sound stage. I did find the Synergy amps to have a slightly warmer sound than the R's.
If you are thinking about upgrading, go for it, you won't be sorry. The R amp will breath new life into the T-8 preamp.
Larry
-
Mike & Larry,
Now stop it! It's like you're actually encouraging me. Shouldn't you be trying to reign in my wild, seemingly uncontrollable spending? This is almost like supplying a pyromaniac with free jet fuel. :flame: :tempted:
All joking aside, thank you.
Do either of you think there is any call/need to opt for the 600R over the 400R? Allow me to explain my thinking: my current speakers (ProAc Response D2s) would be an easy load for the 400R. I also recall Frank's saying both sound the same. Yet, I'm well aware this illness I've caught will someday pressure me to buy new speakers. It is possible such speakers would be a more difficult load. (Yes, it's equally possible they'll be an easier load.) I can't help but imagine the more powerful 600R would offer more dynamic power, more oomph, more whatever over the 400R. Thoughts?
Another thought: I know this is in the AVA Circle and I mean no disrespect to Frank, but had you considered other brands before you settled on your choices? I find myself leaning toward the Fet Valve amps, but I know too well there are many other brands out there.
Regards,
Michael
-
Seven months ago my music was in bad need of an electrical cardioversion defibrillation.
I switched from wyred4sound D power 1000 wpc. to a 600R and CFpre powering Salk
HT3s. A great philosopher once said, "well mastered/produced recordings+amp/speaker
synergy+tube distortion = euphonic mojo." Frank once said, 30 day trial, what do you
have to lose?
gad-
-
[...] Do either of you think there is any call/need to opt for the 600R over the 400R? [...] I can't help but imagine the more powerful 600R would offer more dynamic power, more oomph, more whatever over the 400R. Thoughts?
Another thought: I know this is in the AVA Circle and I mean no disrespect to Frank, but had you considered other brands before you settled on your choices? I find myself leaning toward the Fet Valve amps, but I know too well there are many other brands out there.
As to power, I don't know. I've been told the 400R is plenty for what I'm doing. Yet I, too, wonder if I might get a tiny bit more oomph from the 600R. I'd be interested what you decide.
As to other brands, the Fet Valve was recommended to me by Janzen, whose speakers I'm using, and they use the 400R for show demos. Not only that, Janszen formerly used Bryston amps (as did I), and switched to the Fet Valve. I have listened carefully to the Janszens with Bryston and AVA amps, and my opinion is that neither trounces the other. They both sound great with the zA2.1, and each brand has its strengths. But the Bryston amp carries a very substantial price premium. The slightly different sound, heavy metalwork, 20-year warranty, and dealer support are worth it to some audiophiles, but not me. I think the Fet Valve offers great performance for a very reasonable price. It's hard to think of another brand that hits the same price:performance ratio.
-
gad,
Gadzooks! Excellent points! If I don't like the amp, I send it back on my dime (which isn't much more expense than my driving round trip to Portland and Corvallis to audition an amp. I have nothing to lose. :thumb:
Mike,
Unless Frank tries to persuade me otherwise tomorrow, I will order a 600R.
It may take a month or so, but (assuming I buy the 600R), I will happily take it to your home in October/early November for a comparison. I'd love to hear the Janzens again especially if I can really understand the amp that powers them and compare them to my D2s. [Just in case I'm presuming too much wrt my driving to your home, you are welcome to come to my home in Corvallis for the comparison.]
Michael
-
Michael,
You'd be more than welcome to a demo here in Portland.
Mike
-
Michael,
I use a 400R with my Magnepan 1.7s. Sometimes I wonder if I should have ordered a 600R, but I have never heard one. It's not as if my speakers are "lacking" anything, its just the curse of this hobby that no matter what, you wonder "what if?". I would say that if money is tight, then get the 400R and don't worry about it. On the other hand if money is not an issue, then get the 600R. I don't think you can go wrong in either case.
-
Nightfall,
I believe Frank will upgrade your FV400R to the FV600R for just the cost difference, as long as your amp is still the current production model. So for $500.00, there's no need to "what if?" Probably worthwhile to do for the cost.
Ron
-
Correct. We will upgrade a Fet Valve 400R to a 600R for the difference in price ($500) and shipping cost for as long as both are current production models. There are no changes in either planned short term.
Frank
-
Is the warmup time for preamps the same? 5 minutes or so?
-
Mike, the recommended power range for the Janszens is up to 150 wpc. I assume that is the 8 ohm rating. They "tolerate" up to 250 wpc at 8 ohms and 500 at 4. I don't know what Frank rates his 400R and 600R into 4 ohms but at least on paper you would be exceeding the manufacturer's recommendation with the 600R.
Now I admit that many times more power can improve headroom and reduce chances for distortion, along with possibly better woofer control. The Janszens can play louder than many other electrostatics but do you approach their limits? Another consideration is that with some amplifier lines the lesser powered models have the reputations for "sweeter", more musical reproduction. I've not heard either AVA model so I can't say.
But I do have the zA2.1s and hope to be amp shopping as well in the near future. The 400R is certainly on my list because of David's endorsement.
-
Pryso, Thanks for the thoughts on power. Last time I talked with David Janszen, his limit on amplifier power was 400 wpc, though I have to admit, I don't know whether that's at 8 ohms or 4. Since I am enjoying the 400R, I'm ready to stop evaluating equipment and just enjoy! --Mike
-
I'm afraid common sense has ruled the day for me. :( I just placed an order for the 400R. There was no good argument (other than greed for more power) for me to go for the 600R. Any speakers I'm likely to own in the near future ought not to be too heavy a load for the 400R.
Now I must wait FOUR WEEKS....sigh. Once it arrives, I will sell my SimAudio i3.3. There ought to be a market for that.
I hope my wife doesn't kill me..... :roll:
-
Congrats on the new amp! Post a review after you get it.
Enjoy!
-
Gadfly. Hello.ive had class d also. Im just curious what you like about the Franks components over the class d?
-
I have a Class D Audio amp and have experience with a Nuforce Model 9se. They are way out classed by the R series. The R series is has better bass, treble, dynamics, especially low volume dynamics. The midrange is smoother and more liquid. Of course, which preamp you use plays a big part in it.
-
Note that David Janszen does not recommend using Class D amplifiers with his electrostatic loudspeakers. The interaction of the Class D amp output filters with the rather difficult load of the JansZen speakers causes Class D amps difficulties, sometimes extreme.
Frank
-
bummrush-
"Gadfly. Hello.ive had class d also. Im just curious what you like about the Franks components over the class d?"
Hello bummrush,
Synergy. I got interested in Salk HT3s when they were the new hot. Jim Salk often demoed them featuring Frank"s
most powerfull hybrid tube amp. I had purchased a W4S STI-1000 prior to an impulse buy of HT3s. The HT3s were
fresh from an audio show offered on the "available now" Salk website. Hence the W4S/Salk combo. There was an
initial seduction from the sense of detail and spacially well defined instruments. Also a whole lotta slam. But
something almost spiritual was missing. Over time fatigue set in. A funk I endured too long due to the difficulty
of admitting I blew a lot of $.
It's tough chasing transcendent aural emotional involvment on a limited budget :duh:
The Salk/CF Pre 600R get me way closer than D power ever did. Close enough that I listen with a smile and don't
yearn to hear what is not there. Always pleasant. Sometimes mind blowing. Intimacy vs. a hand-shake.
gad-
-
I had a bc int and also red dragons.I too e as seduced.At first the lbass was nice, but after extended listen it wang s just way to much. Its hard for me to put into words just what it was about class d.But yeah s listening fatigue was big part also
-
One of my friends pointed me to this thread. I must say that our speakers' specs are posted on our web site, and their impedances are benign, more so than a lot of cone speakers or other electrostatics -- 6 or 8 Ohms nominal, 4 Ohms minimum, and the mild capacitance of the electrostatic is well decoupled. I don't remember saying or writing anything against switching amps. Good switching amps are getting more common. The first embodiment of the JansZen One had three switchers built in, although due to lack of audiophile acceptance, they were designed out of the production version. I'm now working on a version of the zA2.1 with built in dual switching amps, using DSP for EQ and crossover, and directly connected to the drivers of course with very short leads. It can be driven straight from a DAC or disc player though balanced cables, nice and simple, or by a preamp in a more elaborate system. Field tests begin next week. Maybe its time has come . . .
Note that David Janszen does not recommend using Class D amplifiers with his electrostatic loudspeakers. The interaction of the Class D amp output filters with the rather difficult load of the JansZen speakers causes Class D amps difficulties, sometimes extreme.
Frank