AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 9 Sep 2019, 09:06 pm
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I know the room is dark and the pictures are dark, but they are up and playing.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/new%20pair%201.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/new%20pair%202.jpg)
They have got all of the good stuff including Copper Caps.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/new%20pair%203.jpg)
My initial impression is that they sound a lot like the Super-Mini, but more real, more life like, and a lot more dynamic. With 98db sensitivity the 10 watt chip amps are all these things ever need.
And with the combination of the new GR Neo tweeter and Copper Caps used in these I hear much deeper into the music and hear clarity at a level that I have never heard before with any other speakers. These things take just about every aspect of speaker design to another level.
I think a lot of the burn in time that these are going to get while they are here might happen with me setting in front of them. :thumb:
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Danny, your photos didn't post... at least to me.
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Hmmmm... I see them.
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Danny, your photos didn't post... at least to me.
They don't show up for me in MS Edge. I had to switch to Firefox to see the pics.
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See them in chrome also, I want!!
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Is loudspeaker lust sinful? If so I need to repent!
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:drool: :drool: :drool:
Very nice! Looking forward to more listening impressions. Hope you can experiment with some other amps. Maybe something from Gary is still around? 30-50 watts hooked up to a battery?
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They don't show up for me in MS Edge. I had to switch to Firefox to see the pics.
Interesting. For me, they don't show in Firefox, but do show in Edge. Regardless, I'm one of the lucky ones to have heard the prototype, and I've never heard anything like it.
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Awesome.
Nice to have these back.
Thank you to everyone who made this happen including our Canadian friends.
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They look great, and I know they sound great.
Sounds like improvements over the original pair we heard as well. :D
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I'm in the "got to hear the prototype" club with Scott and my-of-my these are something else. As for speaker lust, good thing I'm not Catholic.
Mike
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I imagine they take everything I love about the Super 7 and take it to the next level. Yes?
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Yes, and more! :o
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Yes, and more! :o
Damn, that's quite an endorsement! If only I had space for them. Or money, hahaha.
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All I can say is wow, wow, and wow! Those are awesome Danny! I want a pair, but will have to save up..lol..Would you say that these new Line Force speakers, with the proper gear of course, would be in the top 5 or 10 on the planet? I know you've heard tons of speakers over the years, so I take your word for these being world class! :thumb: Can you give me an estimate on what the cost would be if I were to get all of the components and put it together myself? Thanks!
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Congratulations! They look amazing.
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How much breathing room do these require besides standard 3' behind?
Would 14'x18'x10 high be large enough?
Thanks
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How much breathing room do these require besides standard 3' behind?
Would 14'x18'x10 high be large enough?
Thanks
3' is a minimum and the further the better.
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Guys, the time that I spend with the most important tool I use in the design aspects of a speaker is just starting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7jEAhp5Fk8&list=PLUFNGRKZZWXzCt2Syx4yjR4Oy7V-uiePB&index=12&t=69s
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Hi everyone,
Where are these in performance relative to the NX-Treme model? Sorry, I haven't been keeping up very well.
Thanks
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:popcorn:
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Hi everyone,
Where are these in performance relative to the NX-Treme model? Sorry, I haven't been keeping up very well.
Thanks
Give me about three or four more days with them and I'll make some comparisons.
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So last night I really gave these things a work out and had some fun with exploring the dynamic capabilities. In the end I had the feeling that the top end was pushed a little forward and a little over aggressive. They were even a little fatiguing. And I can't stand a speaker with those attributes even in the slightest. I love resolution and detail extremes, but that has to come with balance and smoothness.
So I am thinking about exploring the use of a one ohm or half ohm resistor inline with the tweeters. Right now they have no resistor in the path. I softened the Super 7 in the crossover region for the same reasons. Sometimes a flat response doesn't present itself that way in a room response. And there are ways to move things forward and back in the sound stage to make things arrive just right.
So I have been thinking these need a little tweaking.
But then after playing for about 36 hours straight they smoothed out quite a bit. The lower end and vocals have a lot more body today as well. This is about the biggest change that I have heard in a long time from burn in.
I am still going to explore the effects of tweaking the top end though.
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Today I played with a 1 ohm resistor and a half ohm resistor inline with the tweeters. Both knocked the sharpness right out of them without giving up too much detail. I think the half ohm (so far) was the best choice. It made a nice balance and brought a fullness back to the vocals that I felt like was a little thin.
These are amazing.
These speakers really allow the smallest things to be easily heard.
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How low do the mid/tweeter (NEO 10/3) line array panels go compared to the shorter version with 1 of each ? Do you get lower frequency extension ?
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How low do the mid/tweeter (NEO 10/3) line array panels go compared to the shorter version with 1 of each ? Do you get lower frequency extension ?
I'll have to measure them in this room to see what I am getting. Subwoofer crossover settings are clearly lower. I think I have the dial set to about 60Hz on the A370PEQ plate amps. So crossing in the 120Hz to 180Hz is it's range.
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Update....
I settled on a .5 ohm resistor inline with the tweeters. It just took a slight edge off and balanced them a little better.
And the change from burn in continued over the weekend. I am amazed at how much these things have changed.
The bottom end actually picked up on these things a little bit, and vocals have more body and feeling.
It's like I am no longer just hearing the music. I'm feeling it and being immersed in it. I feel like I went from drinking cool water to drinking cool water while floating in a pool. Each piece of music has become an experience now. It's quite amazing.
Some how I need to figure out a way that everyone can hear these.
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Looking forward to giving these a listen compared to the originals. Been to long! :)
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Some how I need to figure out a way that everyone can hear these.
Hand out plane tickets...we'll be there! What's in the fridge?
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Hand out plane tickets...we'll be there! What's in the fridge?
You mean you guys aren't up for a road trip? We'll all go out for Texas BBQ.
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About 4 day drive from here. Road trip is possible, or catch a flight like last time. BBQ sounds good to me! :)
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Some how I need to figure out a way that everyone can hear these.
Bring those puppies down here to Dallas at my house - makes it much easier for folks to fly in and hear them :D
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I wonder what Danny’s taking to LSAF next year :dunno: :eyebrows: :drool: :banana piano:
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Looks promising Danny. I wonder if a smaller version say [4] mid range and [11]tweeters per side would do in a smaller room.
charles
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Looks promising Danny. I wonder if a smaller version say [4] mid range and [11]tweeters per side would do in a smaller room.
charles
This is about as small of a line source that you can make with these drivers and it work.
But there is a smaller option. See the Super-7.
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Thanks for the response Danny.
charles
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Thanks for the response Danny.
charles
and for smaller rooms, the Super 7's house the speaker and subs all in one cabinet so no seaparate sub towers taking up additional real estate in the room.
jay
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does this mean a parts kit is available for S7 moniters?
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does this mean a parts kit is available for S7 moniters?
Currently there are no Neo 10's in stock, but I'm working on it.
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:thumb:
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I have turned on the lights :)
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/new-line-force-by-danny-richie-jpg.33621/)
Picture from: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/newbie-here-looking-for-input-for-upgrading-my-current-2-channel-system.8992/post-229833
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Danny,
Get those speaker wires (and all wires) off the floor!!!! Your soundstage will go out to Mars when all cables are off the floor. You can even make risers using cardboard.
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Danny,
Get those speaker wires (and all wires) off the floor!!!! Your soundstage will go out to Mars when all cables are off the floor. You can even make risers using cardboard.
Please explain in scientific terms why that is. No forget that, I don’t want to derail this thread.
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Please explain in scientific terms why that is. No forget that, I don’t want to derail this thread.
:green:
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Those feet look like robot feet to me. If only they were and there was an app to have the speakers find the best locations in the room by walking around. When they were done the feet could also lift the speaker wires off the floor :-)
That would be the best use of robotics!
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Those feet look like robot feet to me. If only they were and there was an app to have the speakers find the best locations in the room by walking around. When they were done the feet could also lift the speaker wires off the floor :-)
That would be the best use of robotics!
Sorry man, we didn't implement any actual functioning robotics into them.... might have been cool though :)
jay
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How do these compare sonically to the original aluminum unit?
I know you have tweaked the network, and does that differ much from the original pair?
Looking forward to more of your impressions as these break in.
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Hi Danny, these look awesome and no doubt, sound awesome too.
How many of the neo 3s and neo 10s per side?
Could you post ballpark price for a kit like this and same for the composite chassis?
Have you tried a prototype with tweeters to the inside, mids to the outside?
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If you offer this at some point in Kit form I would be very, very much interested along with two of the Servo Sub Kit 5's. :D
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Hi Danny, these look awesome and no doubt, sound awesome too.
How many of the neo 3s and neo 10s per side?
Could you post ballpark price for a kit like this and same for the composite chassis?
Have you tried a prototype with tweeters to the inside, mids to the outside?
12 NEO8s and 32 Neo3s for a pair. PartsExpress is selling Neo10s @ $370 each (they have gone up in price). 12 x $370 is pushing $4,500 from PE. Hopefully Danny has a supplier for the Neo10s like his NEO3s.
https://www.parts-express.com/bohlender-graebener-neo10-planar-transducer--264-7501 (https://www.parts-express.com/bohlender-graebener-neo10-planar-transducer--264-7501)
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We're working on having some custom Neo 10's made. If all goes well then we will re-release all of these Serenity models.
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How do these compare sonically to the original aluminum unit?
I know you have tweaked the network, and does that differ much from the original pair?
Looking forward to more of your impressions as these break in.
This pair is even better. It is a combination of our tweeters and the caps used in the crossover.
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Any Updates on this Model?
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Danny, I wish to express my sincere congratulations for this excellent work.
Very impressive!
Maybe I could attend that barbecue...
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Any updates on these?
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New Neo 10 samples made as per my updates are supposed to be ready in six days. :thumb:
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Danny, any update on the status of drivers?
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Danny, any update on the status of drivers?
New Neo 10 samples came in last week. I did not approve them. But changes and corrections are being made and new samples will be sent when they are ready.
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@Danny, Any news re the Neo 10s?
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@Danny, Any news re the Neo 10s?
Nope.
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bump, for the neo 10's, will they be produced (to your specifications)?
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Judging from his Neo10 samples I saw Monday, it doesn't look like it. 3 samples were completely bare without any felt or damper, with the fourth having felt only applied to the outer rows on the back, and narrow strips applied between each magnet... LMAO
It's unfortunately common for language barriers with overseas manufacturers to cause major slowdowns.
It's possible he has something else in the works, but he would know whats currently in the pipeline.
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Any update on the line force? Will they be happening this year?
Thanks,
Stefan
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Been waiting to do another small run n of the cabinets for a couple people.... we were hoping to do at least 3 pairs but are still at 2 confirmations at this point....
Folks need their own source for the Neo10's, Danny can supply tweeters and networks
jay
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Thanks Jay,
any idea if the Apogee Acoustics EMIMs could be used as replacement for the Neo-10s? Or are those different in size and require a different cross over?
Thanks,
Stefan
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I am not sure but imagine there would at minimum be cross over difference....
BGNeo10 drawing in this PDF:
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-715-bohlender-graebener-neo10-specifications-47008.pdf
jay
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I doubt these are the same size, and they are certainly not compatible with Danny's crossover design. The EMIM drivers have a 3 ohm impedance, while the NEO 10s are 8 ohm. And I suspect that the sensitivity, frequency response, and directivity are also quite different.
It may be possible to find BG Neo10 drivers - you can try contacting Parts Express. They don't have them listed any longer, but they may be able to special order them or have some inventory still available. I got mine from them in December.
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Thanks guys, yeah, thought they would be different.
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I wanted to do some followup on a response in another thread, but don't want to hijack that thread. I think it would be a more appropriate location here. If not, feel free to move or delete. This is the response:
From Danny's test samples I took a look at back in October, it's looking highly unlikely for now..
None of them had the dampening layer between the diaphragm and magnets. Tho, one of them did have thin strips of dampener between the magnets which was really odd.. lol
But it really comes down to being able to communicate with the manufacturers in China/Taiwan, which isn't always easy, even when both parties are speaking the same language..
Hopefully one of these days, a suitable replacement can be had! :thumb:
Which is from this thread:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=post;quote=1844795;topic=174647.0;last_msg=1844795
I'm curious as to why the overseas company is having difficulty coming up with a Neo 10 replacement whereas there is a company has made a replacement for the Neo 3.
Are there any significant differences, other than size, between the Neo 3 and the Neo 10? :scratch:
I really am hopeful that the Neo 10 replacement happens, preferably sooner. There are many people who want to try one of the various Speakers that feature the Neo 10. I think that little Monitor with the Neo 3/10 Combo is a winner in that size/price range. Having that in a "Near field" Office desk, then moving it over on top of a Dual OB Sub for "Full Range" would be outstanding. I know I love my Super 7's, and I think there are several people who want to give the Line Force a go.
Fingers crossed.
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Neo 10's are still under a patent.