AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Low Wattage Systems => Topic started by: Freo-1 on 23 May 2012, 12:11 am
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OK, what is your favorite SET output tube? Are you a fan of the directly heated triode, or something a bit later in development?
Each tube type has a sonic signature that goes with the design, so looking for folks to pass along just what it is about their favorite tube that draws you into the music.
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Apart from the big DHT Triodes, I like the 6C33 by the sheer power, great sound and low output impedance, which means a low price output transformer, or even OTL.
Iam out of Pentodes, PushPull or UltraLinear, but I like to listen it in the friends house.
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My amp runs el34 and kt88/6550s, either UL or Triode strapped.
I run el34s in triode mode 99% of the time. The kt88/6550s in UL do put out more power though, that's what I'd use if I wanted to play dance music real loud. :green: That doesn't happen very often.
As far as the DHTs, I'd like to try them but money is an issue. I built the amp I'm using right now myself, and I'd need to spend over $2k to top it, otherwise I feel I'll only get a different amp that's not necessarily better. Maybe some day...
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GM70
was RCA 2a3 but I don't have the speakers for them to do their best.
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Hi
I really like the 45 but very low powered ,next 2a3 and 300B abit more juice to play with .And then theres the 845 ,211 and I liked the sound of the 4212 .
If you need more grunt you can always PP the triodes :) .Or go active using low powered triodes 8).
Cheers
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Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking.
I have heard the 45, the 300B, the 211, and the 845 output triodes and I like them all. I have stuck with my 300B for a long time because, like Goldilocks, it's not too much and not too little. It's just right.
I am fascinated with the beauty and rightness of the 45, but I fear that it may not be enough power for me most of the time.
I am awestruck by the power and control of the 211, but a little voice inside of me says that I would hardly ever excersize it. That's a lot of heat to just sit in idle.
The 300B seems to be a good place for me. Still, I sometimes wonder about a single 2A3. Would that get me closer to a 45 but still have enough umph? I don't know.
All in all, I think that what makes one output tube stand out more than the other is really the amplifier that it resides in, not the output tube itself. But I get the point of this post. Which flavor do you like? That's a tough one. They are all a little different.
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Hi
I really like the 45 but very low powered ,next 2a3 and 300B abit more juice to play with .And then theres the 845 ,211 and I liked the sound of the 4212 .
If you need more grunt you can always PP the triodes :) .Or go active using low powered triodes 8).
Cheers
Hello,
What a great thread. GM70 and 212E are big contenders in the power output position, one cost 18euros other 2K dollars(Gulp!).
At least the 212 socket is cheap: http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Pin-Giant-Tube-Socket-for-4212E-212E-Tubes-/380355997471?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item588efbef1f
Do you would inform us how is the 212E or 4212E sound??
Thanks
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Hello,
What a great thread. GM70 and 212E are big contenders in the power output position, one cost 18euros other 2K dollars(Gulp!).
At least the 212 socket is cheap: http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Pin-Giant-Tube-Socket-for-4212E-212E-Tubes-/380355997471?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item588efbef1f
Do you would inform us how is the 212E or 4212E sound??
Thanks
HI
If you like the sound of most of the big triodes I think you will like it but do you want to play around with HV .Heres an amp a mate built for a friend of his the HT @ 1300VDC .
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g158/malcolm_05/lucas2.jpg)
The trouble with tube gear is you could use the same output tube but use different circuits and have a different tonal quality ,I think its a case of pic your poison and match with the speaker with an easy load for the amp .
Like the KT88 drive on the left :) .
Heres my mates blog http://web.me.com/blackart/Site_2/Blackart_Audio_Blog/Blackart_Audio_Blog.html and some of the work he does .
Lucas drew up all my circuits and makes all the iron I need so I can build my amps .
Cheers
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Nice glow
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g158/malcolm_05/P1000117.jpg)
Heres my mates blog
http://web.me.com/blackart/Site_2/Blackart_Audio_Blog/Blackart_Audio_Blog.html
He's drawn up all of my circuits and has made all the iron for my projects .
SOme 300B's I've tried for the amps
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g158/malcolm_05/IMG_2549.jpg)
CHeers
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Double post :?
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I went from 45 to 2a3 to 300b. I am currently using Takatsuki TA-300b; if you like the 300b, you need to hear the Takatsukis.
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56OVAL: Thanks for the nice photos. I read in Japan the AD1(now ressurect by Emission Labs) is the tube rated best sound by audiophiles, even better than 2A3 & 300B.
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if you like the 300b, you need to hear the Takatsukis.
Got a link with more info? Are these the rare and unobtainable tubes going for two grand USD???
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http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=87830.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=87830.0)
http://highfidelity.pl/@main-206&lang=en (http://highfidelity.pl/@main-206&lang=en)
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Got a link with more info? Are these the rare and unobtainable tubes going for two grand USD???
http://www.amtrans.co.jp
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I went from 45 to 2a3 to 300b. I am currently using Takatsuki TA-300b; if you like the 300b, you need to hear the Takatsukis.
Hi gsm
Maybe at a latter stage I might track down a pair of TA-300b but their as little bit rich money wise for me at the moment :) . I believe circuits can make more an an improvement than just the glass .My tweeter 300B SET's have 2 power supply's and 2 chokes :) and the 300B SET's running the midrange has 3 power supply & 10 chokes per channel :green: ,irons good for you :thumb: .
I have a pair of PP amps to build for the bass drivers so no money for expensive 300B's :cry: .
Cheers
Mal
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I once heard the 2a3 described as a beautiful sophisticated but delicate woman while the 300b was an athletic 20 year old male full of vim and vigor.
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In my country the 2A3 is called the Triode of Emotion, which is very appropriate.
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I've done 45s, 2a3s, 300Bs and 211s. I still run 2a3s and 300Bs but my favorite SET tube is the 50. It's lovely. Lush yet detailed. Lots of body, delicate clean highs and weighing in at around 5 watts works right fine with my HiEff speakers. In the right circuit with the right parts, there is no better...to my ears. If I had to use one word to describe the 50 it would be liquid.
Good luck finding NOS ones. They're getting pretty rare. One of these days I'll convert a spare pair of 300B monoblocks I've got to 50s...one of these days :duh: :thumb:
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I unaware you are a tube amp builder, good to know it, maybe useful in a future project.
Do you already made a 6C33 SET??
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You have to hear the Emia 50 amp, all nickel chokes and 80% nickel transformers, haven't heard anything better.
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I've done 45s, 2a3s, 300Bs and 211s. I still run 2a3s and 300Bs but my favorite SET tube is the 50. It's lovely. Lush yet detailed. Lots of body, delicate clean highs and weighing in at around 5 watts works right fine with my HiEff speakers. In the right circuit with the right parts, there is no better...to my ears. If I had to use one word to describe the 50 it would be liquid.
Good luck finding NOS ones. They're getting pretty rare.
Looks like you have another source of 50s : http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML50.htm (http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML50.htm)
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I unaware you are a tube amp builder, good to know it, maybe useful in a future project.
Do you already made a 6C33 SET??
No, I haven't tried one yet. Maybe one of these days. :thumb:
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I've done 45s, 2a3s, 300Bs and 211s. I still run 2a3s and 300Bs but my favorite SET tube is the 50. It's lovely. Lush yet detailed. Lots of body, delicate clean highs and weighing in at around 5 watts works right fine with my HiEff speakers. In the right circuit with the right parts, there is no better...to my ears. If I had to use one word to describe the 50 it would be liquid.
Good luck finding NOS ones. They're getting pretty rare. One of these days I'll convert a spare pair of 300B monoblocks I've got to 50s...one of these days :duh: :thumb:
Emission Labs did a remake of it recently, so you can use new production too. Chances are its pretty good if it came from EML.
Spendy though...
http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML50.htm
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For versatility I go for the 845/805 for their higher power and ability to drive more speakers. Sonically I am getting back into lower power SET and will soon be building a 300B amp (not for production).
I have had a few 45, 2A3 and 300B amps around and with the right speakers, I could live with any of these tubes. With my 98dB Usher D2 horns, they all sounded very good.
Have yet to hear a 50 or some of the others in a setting other than shows so cannot comment.
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45's at the moment.
Started with 300B, AudioNote entry level consumer amp. Wooly bass, lush romantic mids only it had a zingy high tension line upper mid lower treble which was even present using Western Electric 300b's.
Tried a Wavelength Audio entry level amp, cleaner and better bass but too sterile and lacking the romantic mids of the AudioNote (when it wasn't being zingy).
Both 300B amps generated too much heat into the room for me to use them year round.
I went to a class AB PP 6BQ5/EL84 amp then got a 2A3 SET amp.
The 2A3 isn't bad, surprisingly good bass all the while using the same two 89 - 92db 8Ω 2-way speakers used with the 300B and 6BQ5.
The big surprise was when i found i wasn't losing to much going down in watts to the 45 tube. Granted more gain was required and i don't listen at loud volumes ~80db - 85db.
The 45 just seems or i should say sounds right with my reasonably efficient fullrange drivers. 96db Fostex 166Es-R/Victor and the new 92db MarkAudio A12P still breaking in on the bench so to speak, verdict's out on them. Needless to say i haven't felt as though i have to have ≥98db speakers, not that i wouldn't try that when the right drivers become available to me.
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2A3 for low output wattage
Gm70 for high output wattage
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So far I've owned a couple of 2a3 amps and an 845 and preferred the 845, but in fairness it was driven by a 300b, so that muddies the water.
I just ordered a 211 integrated which I'm optimistic about, but can't comment on yet.
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Depends on what brand of tube and its application, just not a single answer. For NOS the United or RCA 211. For 300B WE.
If using a crossover and sub the 300B is hard to beat. Full range the 211. To date none of the after market tubes have done it for me. After you experience a United or RCA IMO it is tough to go to anything else.
Gopher I have some 211s for you to play with, however be prepared to go deep in your pocket. Not selling them but you can check them out if you like.
charles
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2A3 for low output wattage
Gm70 for high output wattage
Hi,
Good to see you, just found the new Trodt website, very nice.
http://www.trodtaudio.com/index.php
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Depends on what brand of tube and its application, just not a single answer. For NOS the United or RCA 211. For 300B WE.
If using a crossover and sub the 300B is hard to beat. Full range the 211. To date none of the after market tubes have done it for me. After you experience a United or RCA IMO it is tough to go to anything else.
Gopher I have some 211s for you to play with, however be prepared to go deep in your pocket. Not selling them but you can check them out if you like.
charles
That would be fun, though I hope it doesn't leave me lusting NOS. Lets set a play date when my amp comes in. I should be placing an order early next week.
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I have a 6C33-B triode Set that i like alot.i also like some of the 211 SET amps that i heard at the Capital Audiofest. some of the modded GTA SE40 parallel SETs using the 6L6GC three per side make 40wpc and sound really good.
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i think I am loving the RL12 T15 the most...I had 2A3, 300B, 845, etc...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66664)
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Hi,
Good to see you, just found the new Trodt website, very nice.
http://www.trodtaudio.com/index.php
Thanks Gustavo!
we have been designing and building Gm70 SET/Parallel, 6C33C-SET/Parallel, 845 SET, 300B SET, 2A3 SET. You name it. Our representative in New York has designed our new website for almost a year already.
You can also check Bob Visentainer of Rhapsody Music & Cinema in New York with whom we had a business link. Just click HI-FI:
http://www.rhapsodycinema.com/
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I've had experience with 2a3, 300B, 845 and 211 and I think my favorite so far has been the 845. My current 211 SET is incredible and very enjoyable, but I can't help but keep questioning whether my 845 monos (Shuguang S845 mks) had a splash more emotion.
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its not just about the valve unless each is run with the same efficient speaker. 845 and 211 are good but I haven't tried them with my speakers and at 118db there would be little point. 2A3 was good for a number of years running mid compression drivers but to be fair would not do great bass with such small iron ( bottlehead ) 300B with Emission Labs 300B-XLS does most things right with mid driver from 350Hz -2Khz. Better iron on J Sound Labs 300B. My latest purchases are russian tubed 6n6C ( 6P6C ) and another amp 6p3P only tried on fostex single driver and CSS single driver speakers but so far promising.
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its not just about the valve unless each is run with the same efficient speaker. 845 and 211 are good but I haven't tried them with my speakers and at 118db there would be little point. 2A3 was good for a number of years running mid compression drivers but to be fair would not do great bass with such small iron ( bottlehead ) 300B with Emission Labs 300B-XLS does most things right with mid driver from 350Hz -2Khz. Better iron on J Sound Labs 300B. My latest purchases are russian tubed 6n6C ( 6P6C ) and another amp 6p3P only tried on fostex single driver and CSS single driver speakers but so far promising.
Hi,
Do your loudspeaker are 118dB sensitive?? What is the brand/model??
Or you made it DIY??
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I've yet to sample 45s, but between 2a3 and 300b, it's 300b (so far). To echo what was said before, the Takatsuki 300bs are phenomenal.
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Lets see, I have owned 811's, 300B and variants, 2A3, and on extended loan a Type 45 amp. My preference is for either the 300B or 2A3 tubes/amplifiers. Both tubes have their strengths, and excel in their own way, so its hard to make a definitive winner in that comparison.
Currently I own an Electra Print 300B Custom amplifier that I have installed a pair of Sophia Carbon Princess 300B tubes. I find that I really enjoy this tube, and it seems to sound something like a hybrid between the 2A3 and 300B tubes. Very relaxed and refined sounding, yet still has a big full bottom end and dynamic swing that the 300B is noted for.
The Electra Print amplifier is a bit unusual, in that it uses a pair of op-amp's as the first gain stage. Along with SS rectification, basically there are only the output tubes in this amp. The noise floor is outstandingly low! Had the amp hooked up to a friends pair of Altec 604 speakers, and even standing next to the driver you couldn't hear any noise from the amplifier, it was dead quiet.
While I would like to own one of the higher powered SET amplifiers, as it would open up a wider selection of speakers, I am quite content with this 300B and my Sachiko Double Horns with first generation Fostex 208 Sigma drivers.
Regards
Mister Pig
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Got some 211 monoblocks coming. Just paid the final install to ship this week. Never owned 211s before, so I am pretty excited.
Still need to finish up my Tubelab 300bs. Then I have a 4P1L monoblocks plans.
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Got some 211 monoblocks coming. Just paid the final install to ship this week. Never owned 211s before, so I am pretty excited.
Still need to finish up my Tubelab 300bs. Then I have a 4P1L monoblocks plans.
Thomas Mayer make yr 211s?
I'd love a pair of 4P1L monoblocks; you building them or do you have someone?
Cheers,
Kendall
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Thomas Mayer make yr 211s?
I'd love a pair of 4P1L monoblocks; you building them or do you have someone?
Cheers,
Kendall
Yeah I had Thomas Mayer make those for me as I didn't want to mess with 1100V yet. My limit thus far has been just under 700V, which is scary enough. The 4P1L looks like a star for lower power which I can get away with most of the time I think.
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I am also using the Takatsuki 300B, have been for a bit over a year now. Magnificent. Even though I am very fond of the EML XLS and mesh (and thankfully it is a true mesh, not a cheap punched plate like the TJ) and at times some of the KR variants (I have a straight bottle pair here, and a few others) the Takatsuki is king. But for those looking for something less expensive, do check out the Psvane and Shuguang Treasures 300B's - I have been listening quite a bit to the low priced Psvane 300B and after a very long break in it is really very nice, and totally makes the TJ sound like mush (which it is).
I might try the Psvance WE 300B replica which I have every reason to believe might be killer. Had to get past all my decades of preconceptions about Chinese tubes, though.
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In my room (small and "alive") with my gear (Fi 2A3/45 monos + Tonian Labs speakers), the 45 tube. I have some new EML solid plates and some older tubes that have a square mica on top with 4 corners + supports.
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wow I can't believe its been a year since I looked at this thread, apologies. yes my mid horn is 118db. At this time I am using a modded and made safe Chinese amp ( siliconray sells a kit ) but mine is now in triode mode with 6L6 Brimar power tubes so about 3-4w, but even this is turned down as I really only need 0.1w for 100db at my listening position. My system is tri-amped with 300B doing Raal 140-15D 95db on full power. Bas is driven by 6S33S push pull 40w turned down to 20w. All drivers giving 100db at the listening position but turned down on the active pre amp. Its interesting to read what people think of the different valves but most are using them full range. I had 2A3 mono's before for mid range and liked them but sold them to buy two amps, one of which is not used in this set up as it makes my compression driver hum but sounds sublime with my 85db single driver bass reflex speakers, it uses 6n6C, 5C4M and 6H8C all Russian valves. I would like to try 45's on my mid some time. One of my problem is matching drivers to amplifier output power or finding the best for sound quality and then attenuating where needed, not ideal either way.
Hi,
Do your loudspeaker are 118dB sensitive?? What is the brand/model??
Or you made it DIY??
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when i was listening a lot to 45 and 2A3 amps, i found the 71A to kind of provide a best of the strengths of both. need very efficient speakers tho as typical output about 1 watt. another advantage was tubes plentiful and cheap.
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4p1l in PSE
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(http://www.computeraudiophile.com/attachments/f8-general-forum/32052d1483561082-show-us-your-equipment-kit-moth-s45.jpg)
Between 2a3, 45 and 300b I prefer the 45 hands down. And the best 45 - Emission Labs.
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Between 2a3, 45 and 300b I prefer the 45 hands down. And the best 45 - Emission Labs.
Emission Labs site is the most complete tube manufacturer site I have seen :thumb:
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Big 45. My favorites also
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=159458)
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Emission Lab mesh plate 2A3s
I am running them in my Antique Sound Lab Tulip driving Audio Note AN-Es. They just get out of the way and let the music flow :D
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Elrog 845's
1000v + 2nd Deg Burns + backup space heater + the chance to burn your house down :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160660)
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51 posts and no one has mentioned the operating points at which they like their fave tube/s run. I mention this because a 2A3 run at the classic 60mA/250V operating point will sound sufficiently different to the same tube at 50mA/300V to warrant consideration. Plate dissipation also seems to matter - do you prefer a 45 or 2A3 at 10W dissipation, assuming both are run at the I/V ratio and load you like?
I don't have a heap of experience with this but am curious about others' experiences.
Cheers.
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Running my 45's 28mA/320v
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Running my 45's 28mA/320v
Wow, if that 320V figure is plate-cathode, that tube is running a high I/V ratio. Cool!
Cheers.
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I've since changed rectifier tubes in one particular amp and am now running 30Ma @ 300v.
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I like the sound of Emission Labs 45 Mesh with my Music Reference RM245.1 amp playing Omega Alnico XRS. A really nice combination for my Jazz vinyl collection. Plus these big tubes have coolest glowing elements that call a lot of attention to themselves.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163000)
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Reflecktor 6P15P-EV's when used with a Hazen Grid modified amp.
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71A and 2A3, direct coupled and with stabilized power supply :D
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For my taste it is 211 tube. NOS United or RCA for me.
charles
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While I have them working...VV52B mono blocks. Huge sound stage super analogue presentation.
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Takatsuki 300b and Vaic 45 which are huge bottles!
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I like the sounds of 45 and 2a3 tubes. My amp using Sophia Electric 45 Mesh Plate tubes and are pretty good, sweet and airy.
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Mesh plate 2A3's, old stock 45's, 2A3-40 and Emission Lab 45's. I need to give the mesh 45's a try and find a 2A3 that sounds as good as the 2A3-40 but for now I'm very satisfied.
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its not just about the valve unless each is run with the same efficient speaker. 845 and 211 are good but I haven't tried them with my speakers and at 118db there would be little point. 2A3 was good for a number of years running mid compression drivers but to be fair would not do great bass with such small iron ( bottlehead ) 300B with Emission Labs 300B-XLS does most things right with mid driver from 350Hz -2Khz. Better iron on J Sound Labs 300B. My latest purchases are russian tubed 6n6C ( 6P6C ) and another amp 6p3P only tried on fostex single driver and CSS single driver speakers but so far promising.
much has changed since this post. I still believe the amplifier circuit and transformers play a bigger part than the valves. I once had EL34 pp but it was overkill into efficient drivers so difficult to comment on. Running various valves into lowthers reveals much on the different tubes. I had PX25 monoblocks, built by Jim turner for Jim Carfrae to demo his Carfrae horns, my favourite. 2A3 come close along with 300B. 6C33C in pp great for extra grunt but not on the same level as the others.
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Among 300b, Takatsuki for sure. My second choice would be Sophia Royal Princess.
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Among 300b, Takatsuki for sure. My second choice would be Sophia Royal Princess.
sophia princess were my favourite, I would have liked to try takatsuki, but the cost was out of my reach at the time
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You might consider the new 300b offering from Living Voice. Western Electric duplicates that are better than original WE. Made by KR for Living Voice.
charles
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You might consider the new 300b offering from Living Voice. Western Electric duplicates that are better than original WE. Made by KR for Living Voice.
charles
:o The original WW2 WE 300B lasted around 40K hours.
Edited for correction.
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Charles
Do you have a link to the KR 300b for Living Voice? Or a source?
Thanks
Gary
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Charles
Do you have a link to the KR 300b for Living Voice? Or a source?
Thanks
Gary
I believe Gary from Border Patrol imports them.
charles
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:o The original WW2 WE 300B lasted around 40K hours.
Edited for correction.
Yes it did but at over 3K a pair Ill pass. I found them on the bright side. Is it just me ?
charles
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Mine are Silverstone -245-13X