RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary

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ArthurDent

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Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #40 on: 15 Oct 2012, 05:10 pm »
Thanks Dave, great stuff. As has been noted, nice to see things that Pez/Tyson didn't have time to check out.  :thumb:

vinyl_lady

Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #41 on: 15 Oct 2012, 05:10 pm »
That is a surprise about the 7s.  Was it the room?  Any idea what was driving them?  Usually they team with ARC.

They were teamed with the Audio Research Reference gear and an AMG TT with a Tri Planar arm and the Lyra Atlas cartridge for vinyl playback. As posted above, I had a different impression and thought the 7's sounded pretty good.

DaveC113

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Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #42 on: 15 Oct 2012, 05:21 pm »
Thanks for your work.  I can't see details on most of the speakers because they're too dark.  I suppose the hotel room lighting was very poor and you didn't have a camera flash.  Some interesting-looking speakers for sure.  What's the price of the 'stats that you liked?

I tried to catch the ambiance of the room rather than lighting it up with the flash... it has it's pros and cons for sure. I took a few pics with flash where I had to...

The Sanders 'stats were $13k including a Behringer 24/96 for active xo and a 500 WPC Sanders amp. The Kingsound 'stats were about that price w/o amplifier. It's hard to say which were better, they were both great speakers.

pcosta

Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #43 on: 15 Oct 2012, 05:25 pm »
I really liked the Cessaro room, but couldn't play my own material with the big guys, this is understandable in rooms that are always crowded unless you're actually considering a purchase.

edit, is there any connection between the Hornings in room 493 and the Cessaros? The puresound guy made it seem like there was but maybe I misunderstood?

From talking to Jeff Catalano of HWS he booked the two rooms and all the equipment and setup was his in 493.  The designer of the Pure Sound gear was supposed to runthe room.  They used the small Horning's along with Pure Sound, Horning and TW.

Here is a link for more info http://www.highwatersound.com/high.water.sound.news.html

JLM

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Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #44 on: 15 Oct 2012, 05:29 pm »
Dave, you sound like me after a show: a proud papa.  That's super OK, I'm glad you're happy with what you've got (most it seems never are).  Most rooms at these sorts of venues I don't have to walk into to get my veto (but I do just to know what sounds so dissappointing).   

nickd

Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #45 on: 15 Oct 2012, 05:44 pm »
Nice work Dave,
I was dissapointed by some nice looking stuff playing crapy music. I usually couldn't even sit down and listen. I was pleasently supprised when I walked into the HSU room and listened for a couple of minutes.

I left shaking my head in dismay. Not exactly my sound, but speakers priced at $300. a pair powered by an Onkyo reciever & using zip chord for wire. It was better than at least 1/2 the rooms I visited.

The down side of the show. It showed how much POOR overpriced equipment is out there.

richidoo

Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #46 on: 15 Oct 2012, 06:09 pm »
Good job Dave! Thanks for sharing your show experience. So far your comments on new Legacy are the only qualitative remarks on the internet.  :thumb:   I agree with many of your opinions here. Thanks
Rich

TomS

Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #47 on: 15 Oct 2012, 06:30 pm »
That is a surprise about the 7s.  Was it the room?  Any idea what was driving them?  Usually they team with ARC.
They were using their digital setup and it sounded very thin, almost like a sub was turned off. I've heard them before in the same room in past years and they sounded glorious then.

The Quatro's sounded great in the next room (a small one). Go figure  :scratch:

Doublej

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Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #48 on: 15 Oct 2012, 09:03 pm »
Nice work Dave,
I was dissapointed by some nice looking stuff playing crapy music. I usually couldn't even sit down and listen. I was pleasently supprised when I walked into the HSU room and listened for a couple of minutes.

I left shaking my head in dismay. Not exactly my sound, but speakers priced at $300. a pair powered by an Onkyo reciever & using zip chord for wire. It was better than at least 1/2 the rooms I visited.

The down side of the show. It showed how much POOR overpriced equipment is out there.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by your comment Not exactly my sound?

Donald

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Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #49 on: 15 Oct 2012, 09:51 pm »
Thanks DaveC for your comments, pictures and observations! :D  :thumb: Glad to see you covered Legacy. Been an owner for over a decade. Great product and people.

DaveC113

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Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #50 on: 15 Oct 2012, 10:20 pm »
From talking to Jeff Catalano of HWS he booked the two rooms and all the equipment and setup was his in 493.  The designer of the Pure Sound gear was supposed to runthe room.  They used the small Horning's along with Pure Sound, Horning and TW.

Here is a link for more info http://www.highwatersound.com/high.water.sound.news.html

Cool, thanks. I liked both rooms, I got to play my test tracks on the Hornings... they were excellent, maybe missing a tiny bit of high end sparkle. Still far better than 99% of speakers with dome tweeters.

DaveC113

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Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #51 on: 15 Oct 2012, 10:29 pm »
Dave, you sound like me after a show: a proud papa.  That's super OK, I'm glad you're happy with what you've got (most it seems never are).  Most rooms at these sorts of venues I don't have to walk into to get my veto (but I do just to know what sounds so dissappointing).

Yeah, I even brought my friend home to check out my system to make sure I wasn't dreaming. I told him to remember the $50k setup (for just the amp and speakers) in the KR audio/Voxativ room, because I thought they were the most similar to my system. He agreed my system was it's equal... Now, the only thing I want is higher SPL capabilities. This is a tough one and will require a lot of money to keep the same or better SQ in a speaker that can play louder. Not sure it's going to happen anytime soon...

DaveC113

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Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #52 on: 15 Oct 2012, 10:33 pm »
Nice work Dave,
I was dissapointed by some nice looking stuff playing crapy music. I usually couldn't even sit down and listen. I was pleasently supprised when I walked into the HSU room and listened for a couple of minutes.

I left shaking my head in dismay. Not exactly my sound, but speakers priced at $300. a pair powered by an Onkyo reciever & using zip chord for wire. It was better than at least 1/2 the rooms I visited.

The down side of the show. It showed how much POOR overpriced equipment is out there.

Lol, Hsu and the Onkyo reciever. The system with the ported 15 was really, really poor. I had him switch to the sealed 15 and it was much better. It wasn't a bad system for the price...

JLM

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Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #53 on: 15 Oct 2012, 10:38 pm »
Yeah, I even brought my friend home to check out my system to make sure I wasn't dreaming. I told him to remember the $50k setup (for just the amp and speakers) in the KR audio/Voxativ room, because I thought they were the most similar to my system. He agreed my system was it's equal... Now, the only thing I want is higher SPL capabilities. This is a tough one and will require a lot of money to keep the same or better SQ in a speaker that can play louder. Not sure it's going to happen anytime soon...

Sit closer and/or listen in a smaller room.  Other more expensive ideas:

Add subwoofer help to take bass load off signle driver.
Try Louis' bipole design. 
Double up speakers (drivers as close together as possible). 
The Romeyn Ambiance-Mode Cancelling Array is another possibility.

DaveC113

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Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #54 on: 15 Oct 2012, 10:45 pm »
Sit closer and/or listen in a smaller room.  Other more expensive ideas:

Add subwoofer help to take bass load off signle driver.
Try Louis' bipole design. 
Double up speakers (drivers as close together as possible). 
The Romeyn Ambiance-Mode Cancelling Array is another possibility.

Yup, I have a sub and am considering a line level passive xo between the amp and preamp. It could probably be just a single capacitor giving a 6 dB/Octave roll off around 60-80 Hz or so and maybe built into an IC.

I also asked about speakers with 6 4.5" drivers per cabinet, 4 facing forward and 2 backward. This may be possible, but only if I can afford it. I doubt it'll be a cheap speaker.

rbbert

Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #55 on: 16 Oct 2012, 12:44 am »
They were using their digital setup and it sounded very thin, almost like a sub was turned off. I've heard them before in the same room in past years and they sounded glorious then.

The Quatro's sounded great in the next room (a small one). Go figure  :scratch:

I also thought this was true, to my surprise

rbbert

Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #56 on: 16 Oct 2012, 12:47 am »

The Sanders 'stats were $13k including a Behringer 24/96 for active xo and a 500 WPC Sanders amp. The Kingsound 'stats were about that price w/o amplifier. It's hard to say which were better, they were both great speakers.

The King's have a much larger "sweet spot" if that's important to you.  There are also some easy mods or "optimizations" to make the King's sound better which apparently will be described in their review at Dagogo appearing in the next couple of weeks or so.

rjbond3rd

Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #57 on: 16 Oct 2012, 01:23 pm »
Hi DaveC113,

Thank you for your report / listening impressions on this thread (and in that other Feastrex thread).  It is really appreciated.

I think our tastes are very similar.  My Omegas shipped yesterday and I have a huge assortment of other single-driver designs.  For louder SPL's, just personally, I was never satisfied on orchestral or full dynamics with anytning less than a compression-driven horn system.  There are a whole bunch, from hot-rodded vintage Klipsch to Pi Speakers 4pi and indeed the Econowave can be great (depending on the compression driver of course).

Anyway, thank you for this.  It does sound like we're on parallel paths, which is a good excuse to have two systems :)

Mike B.

Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #58 on: 16 Oct 2012, 03:00 pm »
Bravo Dave. Best show report I have seen.

Nuance

Re: RMAF 2012 Pics and Sporadic Brutally Honest Commentary
« Reply #59 on: 16 Oct 2012, 04:23 pm »
OK, possibly too brutal. I don't like most speakers, maybe one in ten or so....


I see that.:roll: