AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: James Tanner on 3 Oct 2020, 12:48 pm
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HI Folks,
"Our most exquisite representation of musicality ever.
The BR-20 is a fitting tribute to our late dear friend and colleague Brian Russell"
The whole team
Bryston Ltd.
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https://bryston.com/preamps/br-20/
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I want one, but I don't need one. :bawl:
I think my SP2 is doing a good job and has the multi-channel connections I need for my 4- channel stereo arrangement.
I bet music sounds smooth as silk though with the BR-20.
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Is this the renamed BP18 :scratch:
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No subwoofer outputs? No room correction? Price?
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Is this the renamed BP18 :scratch:
Hi
Yes as a tribute to Brian we are renaming the BP18 to the BR-20.
james
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No subwoofer outputs? No room correction? Price?
Hi JLM
There are 2 sets of XLR outputs - so either set can be used for Subs. Jim our company is not a believer in room correction as it messes up more than it solves in our opinion so no there is no room EQ.
Just to be clear this is a Stereo unit not a Surround.
Price will be retail $5995
best
james
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Thanks James. :thumb:
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BR-20 :thumb:
(BTW is that price CAD or USD?)
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BR-20 :thumb:
(BTW is that price CAD or USD?)
Hi - US
james
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How is the headphone amplifier performance on this compared to BHA-1?
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Dang - very nice. And I just got a B135 cubed with the dac for a bedroom system with some Middle T’s :duh: BR-20 with built in BAX and I’d be hooked for sure.
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...the BR20 is a killer!!!! truly an all in one machine! very cool. very nice. :drool:
(and hey...next step would be to make it an integrated :wink:)
al.
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Is BR-20 using same DAC and Streaming board than BDA-3.14?
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...so the USB-Audio input can do DSD whereas the USB-Accessory inputs can't, cause it's basically a pi4, correct?? and the display doesn't has the same green like the BDP3 for example??
for BP17C users: a digital card with USB is still no option??
al.
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How is the headphone amplifier performance on this compared to BHA-1?
Hi Zoom
It is not as capable as the BHA-1 in driving very difficult headphones like the planar magnetic types but short of that it is a very competent headphone amplifier.
james
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Is BR-20 using same DAC and Streaming board than BDA-3.14?
Hi,
The same DAC but it is a Pi4 in the BR-20 whereas the 3.14 uses the Pi3 streamer.
james
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Roon certified?
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Roon certified?
Hi Randy
Not yet - you have to send them a production sample so that will take a while.
james
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I want one, but I don't need one. :bawl:
I'm sure there's lots of us with the same thought 8)
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James,
5995$ is without HDMI card? if so, how much is the HDMI option?
al.
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James,
5995$ is without HDMI card? if so, how much is the HDMI option?
al.
Still working on that.
james
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Hi James,
If I understand correctly the unit can be had without phono stage (optional) and with HDMI card, for 5995$ USD + whatever $ for HDMI (TBD)?
Do you know when you will have pricing and when orders could be placed?
Thanks,
Sasha
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Hi James,
One more question, can the HDMI card be added later, and can it be done by end user?
Thanks,
Sasha
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Hi James,
If I understand correctly the unit can be had without phono stage (optional) and with HDMI card, for 5995$ USD + whatever $ for HDMI (TBD)?
Do you know when you will have pricing and when orders could be placed?
Thanks,
Sasha
Hi Sasha
The options are the HDMI card and the MM Phono which are extra - still working on that.
The HDMI and the Phono are modular so I assume it can be retrofitted later.
I believe the pricing is going out this week.
james
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Hi
Yes as a tribute to Brian we are renaming the BP18 to the BR-20.
james
That's a very touching gesture. It kinda got to me, I must admit.
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That's a very touching gesture. It kinda got to me, I must admit.
...you are right, Jozsef.
al.
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This seems to have moved through development and testing very quickly... a testament to the up front engineering. So congratulations to Bryston, and hope the orders start to come in. I could be one.... still with my first gen BDP/BDA combo, so I could be tempted by an upgraded system while losing two boxes.
I know the loss of Brian Russell will have hit hard on a company as small and tight as Bryston. Along with my condolences, a hope as well that the company can emerge from any eventual changes even stronger.
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:thumb:
(https://bryston.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/BR-20-Silver-17-Front-alpha-web-1.jpg)
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https://bryston.com/
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https://bryston.com/
Just looking at the website James, and I'm wondering if the BR20 is kind of "lost" in the preamp section. I know that this kind of all-in-one poses challenges in what to call it (and Bryston chose to label it a preamp rather than continue the labelling suggested by the 3.14 and call it a Streamer / DAC / Preamp), and where to classify it, but my thinking is that if I am new to Bryston, and looking for a one box digital front end solution, I would likely look in your "digital" section first... I might not think to look in the tab labelled Preamp - and I would not see the BR20. Another way to look at it, is that the BR20 is mostly a digital device, more so than classic analog preamps. So perhaps keep it in the Preamp tab, but cross-list it in the Digital section as well.
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Just looking at the website James, and I'm wondering if the BR20 is kind of "lost" in the preamp section. I know that this kind of all-in-one poses challenges in what to call it (and Bryston chose to label it a preamp rather than continue the labelling suggested by the 3.14 and call it a Streamer / DAC / Preamp), and where to classify it, but my thinking is that if I am new to Bryston, and looking for a one box digital front end solution, I would likely look in your "digital" section first... I might not think to look in the tab labelled Preamp - and I would not see the BR20. Another way to look at it, is that the BR20 is mostly a digital device, more so than classic analog preamps. So perhaps keep it in the Preamp tab, but cross-list it in the Digital section as well.
Good point!
In fact one of the discussions I had with Gary was he felt it should be an Analog preamp first (due to it's new analog circuit design) and I felt it should be considered a Digital product - but maybe your right - its both!
james
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Dare we hope for a multichannel version to replace the SP-3?
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Dare we hope for a multichannel version to replace the SP-3?
Hi
No plans on the SP3 front.
james
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I really want to know where it fits in terms of SQ among latest separates BDA-3 + BDP-3 + BP+17 cubed combo vs. BDA-3.14 all-in-one. vs old+new separates combo (eg. BDP-1+BDA-3+ BP17 or BHA-1).
(I agree that this product and the BDA-3.14 shouldn't be missed out on by newcomers due to improper exclusion/inclusions in categories.)
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Its a long video - 50 minutes
https://www.facebook.com/schroederamp/videos/2792314194389422/
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Great video!
Skip to 13:10 for beginning of preamp chat (BP 17 cubed, BP26, and the BR-20). It goes on until the 28 minute mark about technical stuff and SQ difference. After that, it's about cost/value, Roon, MPD, downsizing BR2 compatibility and remote inclusion etc.
I think the other person initially had the sound presentation of the BP17 cubed and BP26 backwards, but then Gary got it right? What Gary said sounds similar to what James has said. The BP-26 is more dynamic and forward, while the BP-17 cubed is more holographic and 3D. The thing that confused me was when Gary said that the BP26 has the lower noise floor of the two (BP-17) by a few dBs. Is that true? I thought I remember reading from James that the BP17 has the newer tech and lower noise, which lets you hear the music in a more relaxed way and it feels less dynamic because it doesn't get strained. Can you guys clear that up?
Second interesting point from the video was that the preamp section of the BR-20 measured (and sounded?) better than both the BP-26 and BP-17 cubed, if they were to sell that preamp portion of the BR-20 separately. A couple of questions about that.
1) How would you describe the sound and presentation of the BR-20? Is it like BP-17 cubed or BP-26 or in the middle or something else?
2) While the BR-20 does have the best measuring preamp among the 3 preamps, however, when you start including the other digital things such as the DAC and Pi4 streaming board into the same chassis, does the BR-20 still measure (and/or sound better) than the combination of the slightly inferior BP-26 and BP-17 preamps paired with separate external DAC and BDPs?
My question is: If I'm after ultimate SQ, and cost or space is not an issue, what do I get?
(Also, for this case let's take out other things such as polarity, balance dial out of the picture or as a factor/feature required that can sway the decision. XLR in, XLR out. Basic stuff. That's all that matters.)
Do I go for the BR-20 and pair it with external amps or active monitors directly, or is separates still the king in SQ.
Thanks! :thumb: :popcorn:
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Hi Zoom
How come you always put me on the spot!!! :lol:
I think the main difference between designing products these days vs days of yore is the ability to use surface mount components. In days passed circuit parts typically were what we call hole-through and parts utilized were large in size and took up a fair amount of geography. So placing lets say a phono stage in the same box as a discrete Class A preamplifier circuit used up a lot of real-estate and you had to be very careful about proximity of circuit paths to prevent electronic bleed-through, hum etc.
Today with surface mount technology you can place circuits and power supplies reasonably close together and still maintain excellent electronic separation. So the ability to design and build products that rival the performance of separates is a much easier task. So I think the BR-20 represents our first effort at providing our customers with a product that approaches the lofty goals of separates. It is also the first preamp we have designed that offers a fully balanced circuit path from input to output which does have some advantages performance wise.
So I guess my advice would be choose the product based on the feature set you feel meets todays and tomorrows needs. For example, if you already have a great streamer or DAC then the BP-20 would be the wrong choice and the BP17 or the BP26 would be the better choice. Same if you have a great preamp already the BDA-3DAC or the BDP3.14 streamer/DAC would be the best option. If you look at the BDP-3 Digital Player for example vs the Pi built into the 3.14 or the BR-20 the BDP-3 is a far more powerful process and far more capable of handling large libraries, offers much fasted load times, has more features like internal hard drive, possible ROON server (fingers crossed) etc.
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James,
would it be doable to make the BR 20 an integrated amp??
al.
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James,
would it be doable to make the BR 20 an integrated amp??
al.
Hi Al
Yes we have thought about that but nothing immediately planned.
james
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James,
Will there be an option for external PSU MPS-2 on BR-20, to take its performance even further?
Sasha
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Are the HDMI inputs pictured on the back usable without the HDMI card?
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James,
Will there be an option for external PSU MPS-2 on BR-20, to take its performance even further?
Sasha
Hi Sasha
No plans on that front.
james
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Are the HDMI inputs pictured on the back usable without the HDMI card?
Hi
No the HDMI card includes the connections. There is a panel that replaces the HDMI if not ordered as an option.
james
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Hi Zoom
How come you always put me on the spot!!! :lol:
I think the main difference between designing products these days vs days of yore is the ability to use surface mount components. In days passed circuit parts typically were what we call hole-through and parts utilized were large in size and took up a fair amount of geography. So placing lets say a phono stage in the same box as a discrete Class A preamplifier circuit used up a lot of real-estate and you had to be very careful about proximity of circuit paths to prevent electronic bleed-through, hum etc.
Today with surface mount technology you can place circuits and power supplies reasonably close together and still maintain excellent electronic separation. So the ability to design and build products that rival the performance of separates is a much easier task. So I think the BR-20 represents our first effort at providing our customers with a product that approaches the lofty goals of separates. It is also the first preamp we have designed that offers a fully balanced circuit path from input to output which does have some advantages performance wise.
So I guess my advice would be choose the product based on the feature set you feel meets todays and tomorrows needs. For example, if you already have a great streamer or DAC then the BP-20 would be the wrong choice and the BP17 or the BP26 would be the better choice. Same if you have a great preamp already the BDA-3DAC or the BDP3.14 streamer/DAC would be the best option. If you look at the BDP-3 Digital Player for example vs the Pi built into the 3.14 or the BR-20 the BDP-3 is a far more powerful process and far more capable of handling large libraries, offers much fasted load times, has more features like internal hard drive, possible ROON server (fingers crossed) etc.
Wow great answer to a tough question.... as I understand James' summary, we are at the point where "combined" vs "separates" is no longer really a question of SQ, at least for a great number of owners. Just the elimination of the vagaries of cabling alone must provide gains to combined designs, in addition to the electronic issues James mentions.
So if it is not really an SQ issue, then what else do separates get you? To many it will simply be the ultimate flexibility to tinker and swap out any piece of the audio chain, that provides for many much of the fun in following audio. This is certainly lost with all in one designs. With this, is perhaps the sense of risk that you are committing more in dollars and as a big chunk of your gear, with a combined design, and if you end up unhappy with it, more is lost.
My long time interest in "less boxes" comes from a home reality perspective, where I never did love the look of a wall of components sitting in the main room we live in and enjoy music in, and one of the reasons for going digital was to lose the wall of CDs. So if I can have a simpler, smaller footprint system that gives up almost nothing in musical enjoyment, I will accept the commitment to keeping it for a long time. And, others, might not... :wink:
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Hi Zoom
How come you always put me on the spot!!! :lol:
If you look at the BDP-3 Digital Player for example vs the Pi built into the 3.14 or the BR-20 the BDP-3 is a far more powerful process and far more capable of handling large libraries, offers much fasted load times, has more features like internal hard drive, possible ROON server (fingers crossed) etc.
I can just feel the love from all the way here. I can only imagine the joy the guys at Bryston must feel when they see a post from me pop up. :rules:
Fair point about the disparity between the processors and how well they can handle larger libraries. Also looking forward to seeing Roon-in-a-box in the future. I suppose that would put it into the same market as Roon's Nucleus(+) with some more capability.
I won't push more about the BR-20. :green: I'm interested to see user reviews on that. That combination of DAC+BDP+BP was something I myself had been recommending since the last 5 years, so it's great to see that dream request finally happen. I agree with NorthMac, that less boxes can be a great thing. For gaming and media, I myself have gone digital and enjoy that simplicity. Looking forward to see how Bryston continues to progress with their all-in-one designs.
Gary did speak about the modular nature of the BR-20 and that is something I hope that Bryston does take seriously through the product's product life. Pushing the performance of the BR-20 by replacement of the pre amp section or DAC board is always welcome and cherry on top of already great performance. However, if it's possible in the future to replace the Pi4 with Pi5 or another faster processor, you can give the product a new life. It may be able to handle bigger libraries in he future, or even function as Roon server. For example, I have a BDP-1 and I'm still fine with the audio circuitry of digital out portion, but if I was able to only upgrade the processor so it could be faster or hold bigger libraries, without having to upgrade to a new product altogether such as the BDP-3, that'd have been very nice.
Cheering for you guys :thumb:
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Another great product, but I would like to see more flexibility with the modular design. How about making all input types optional? Start with a basic platform with outputs and let the customer choose input options as needed. For example I would choose only an HDMI input board to start. I have not had analogue sources for a long time nor do I have digital sources with other input types. If that changes add input boards in the future as needed. Also I have no interest in the streaming option via the Pi4. Make that optional as well. Just food for thought. Thanks, Al
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Good point!
In fact one of the discussions I had with Gary was he felt it should be an Analog preamp first (due to it's new analog circuit design) and I felt it should be considered a Digital product - but maybe your right - its both!
Hey James,
Sounds like another great product from Bryston and a fitting tribute to Brain Russell... :thumb:
If we consider the cubic amplifiers, they use the Salomie circuit design to reduce the input noise levels.
And now, I ask if there are any new technologies that are being utilized in this new Pre-Amp design that allows it to achieve such low distortion/noise numbers?
Luigi
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Good point!
In fact one of the discussions I had with Gary was he felt it should be an Analog preamp first (due to it's new analog circuit design) and I felt it should be considered a Digital product - but maybe your right - its both!
Hey James,
Sounds like another great product from Bryston and a fitting tribute to Brain Russell... :thumb:
If we consider the cubic amplifiers, they use the Salomie circuit design to reduce the input noise levels.
And now, I ask if there are any new technologies that are being utilized in this new Pre-Amp design that allows it to achieve such low distortion/noise numbers?
Luigi
Hi Luigi
Yes the BR-20 is a new circuit design.
james
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James, what is the price of the optional HDMI board in US dollars? Thanks, Al
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James, what is the price of the optional HDMI board in US dollars? Thanks, Al
I believe it is $1200 retail.
james
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This is an interesting product. I have separate boxes now--BP-26, MPS-2, BDA-3, and BDP-3.
A couple of questions for James now. It seems like I could replace all of them with a BR-20, is that right?
More importantly, my BDP-3 has the built-in Wi-Fi option (with external antennas)--very, very nice to have that. Might that be an option or possibility with the BR-20?
Having fewer boxes on the rack would be nice, and an built-in/internal Wi-Fi option, such as what the BDP-3 has, could be what would take me toward a BR-20 direction.
Ilkatze
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This is an interesting product. I have separate boxes now--BP-26, MPS-2, BDA-3, and BDP-3.
A couple of questions for James now. It seems like I could replace all of them with a BR-20, is that right?
More importantly, my BDP-3 has the built-in Wi-Fi option (with external antennas)--very, very nice to have that. Might that be an option or possibility with the BR-20?
Having fewer boxes on the rack would be nice, and an built-in/internal Wi-Fi option, such as what the BDP-3 has, could be what would take me toward a BR-20 direction.
Ilkatze
Hi Ilkatze
The BR-20 does combine a lot of features but the separates still have options that the BR-20 does not. So on the BDP-3 for example the wireless option and the internal drive option is available whereas on the BR-20 it is not. On the BDP-3 you have a much more capable computer for library management and streaming etc. while the BR-20 uses a Pi computer so less powerful.
james
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Re. Ilkatze's post, did the Bryston wifi dongle get discontinued?
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Re. Ilkatze's post, did the Bryston wifi dongle get discontinued?
I believe that is still available not sure if it will work with the Pi - that's a Chris question.
james
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The Pi-4 has built in WiFi/ Bluetooth might just require external antennaes.
sure the BR-20 case is well shielded so might be an inexpensive work around.
There is a YouTube video on how to add antennas to the Pi PIO bus sure I don't need to provide.
Jerry
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Dear James,
this is a great hommage to a great man. I am shocked to learn about this and I am truly sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with his family and all of you at Bryston. We always ask the question "why" but we may not get the answer. What is important though is that we remember him as a person and as the driving force of one of the world's finest audio companies.
Sincerely,
Antun
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James, are there any specs available on the headphone amp portion, beyond the general descriptions? Power, impedance? This is going right to the top of my letter to Santa.
Ed
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James, are there any specs available on the headphone amp portion, beyond the general descriptions? Power, impedance? This is going right to the top of my letter to Santa.
Ed
Hi Ed
We are still working on the literature which will have those specs. Should be available soon.
james
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HI Folks,
"Our most exquisite representation of musicality ever.
The BR-20 is a fitting tribute to our late dear friend and colleague Brian Russell"
The whole team
Bryston Ltd.
My heartfelt condolences James, to family and team. Sorry I missed this, these must be hard times for all of you. Hoping powerful memories will be with you.
Marius
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Feel almost ashamed to post anything after this, so please let me do in a separate post.
On the new pre-amp, would the Dac be identical to the BDA3? I understand the BDP-3 would be heftier than the Rpi4 in the BR-20, couldnt find a side-by-side on the dacs in the 2 devices.
Appreciate if you could comment on that, if you have the opportunity.
Thanks,
Marius
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Feel almost ashamed to post anything after this, so please let me do in a separate post.
On the new pre-amp, would the Dac be identical to the BDA3? I understand the BDP-3 would be heftier than the Rpi4 in the BR-20, couldnt find a side-by-side on the dacs in the 2 devices.
Appreciate if you could comment on that, if you have the opportunity.
Thanks,
Marius
Hi Marius
Yes it is the BDA-3 DAC
james
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thanks James,
In which case, upgrading my bp26 (with external power) and bda-1/bdp-1 would be best done using the new BR-20 and BDP3 combo? Or, could I simply suffice with updating the 2 digital products only. (Still using the sub crossover here, but don't think that makes it any different? Unless the now BR-20 has that onboard also..? might be a great option if not yet available...?)
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thanks James,
In which case, upgrading my bp26 (with external power) and bda-1/bdp-1 would be best done using the new BR-20 and BDP3 combo? Or, could I simply suffice with updating the 2 digital products only. (Still using the sub crossover here, but don't think that makes it any different? Unless the now BR-20 has that onboard also..? might be a great option if not yet available...?)
Hi Marius
Yes I think upgrading to the BR-20 would be the best option as the BR-20 does represent our latest thinking on preamplifiers.
james
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Are there options on color for the display and LEDs?
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Are there options on color for the display and LEDs?
HI
Only White for the display and Blue or Green on the LEDs.
james
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James,
same height as 2.5B Cubed Dual-Mono Amplifier?
thanks
George
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James,
same height as 2.5B Cubed Dual-Mono Amplifier?
thanks
George
Hi George - yes same height.
james
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Hi James,
please allow me this:
Fully aware you've stated here and elsewhere the built-in BDP-Pi isn't as powerful as the BDP-3, I am still considering it as an upgrade to my BP-26/BDP-1 setup ;-)
Thinking I could always forgo with the built-in and upgrade to the BDP-3, I can't help but wondering how the built-in BDP-Pi compares to the BDP-1. Do you have these specs available please?
1 concern I have is the file manipulation capability, as I have rather an extensive library, and the BDP-1 can't finish creating the BrystonDB, nor can it play music while updating a single album, without hiccups and distortion. It updates quickly enough, so I can live with it. However, if updating to the BR-20, I would hate to experience that still.
- Is memory on the Pi large enough to hold the DB, or should we attach a usb drive to hold that maybe?
- My music files are stored on a NAS, so I wouldn't need local drives, would love a built in SSD card option. Is that possible?
2nd concern I have is with the Pi itself. Having 3 Pi's (3 and 4) in the house doing other stuff, mainly Homeautomating, I am fully aware, and have experienced compromised SD-cards more than once unfortunately. They are simply not suitable for heavy read/write operations. How does this influence operation in the BR-20? Does it use the Sd-card at all for R/W operation, or is it only used for the boot sequence.
Sorry to express my doubt, but I would never recommend the PI as a device one's life can depend on, let alone a Bryston Amp ;-)
Thanks for your thoughts on the matters above,
Marius
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HI marius
I will let Chris answer this for you.
I believe the Pi4 does have limitations when it comes to library size and control whereas the BDP-3 can easily deal with a multitude of tasked all at once.
james
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Hi James,
please allow me this:
Fully aware you've stated here and elsewhere the built-in BDP-Pi isn't as powerful as the BDP-3, I am still considering it as an upgrade to my BP-26/BDP-1 setup ;-)
Thinking I could always forgo with the built-in and upgrade to the BDP-3, I can't help but wondering how the built-in BDP-Pi compares to the BDP-1. Do you have these specs available please?
1 concern I have is the file manipulation capability, as I have rather an extensive library, and the BDP-1 can't finish creating the BrystonDB, nor can it play music while updating a single album, without hiccups and distortion. It updates quickly enough, so I can live with it. However, if updating to the BR-20, I would hate to experience that still.
- Is memory on the Pi large enough to hold the DB, or should we attach a usb drive to hold that maybe?
- My music files are stored on a NAS, so I wouldn't need local drives, would love a built in SSD card option. Is that possible?
2nd concern I have is with the Pi itself. Having 3 Pi's (3 and 4) in the house doing other stuff, mainly Homeautomating, I am fully aware, and have experienced compromised SD-cards more than once unfortunately. They are simply not suitable for heavy read/write operations. How does this influence operation in the BR-20? Does it use the Sd-card at all for R/W operation, or is it only used for the boot sequence.
Sorry to express my doubt, but I would never recommend the PI as a device one's life can depend on, let alone a Bryston Amp ;-)
Thanks for your thoughts on the matters above,
Marius
Hi Marius,
Long time since we've corresponded, hope your doing well.
You bring up many valid concerns, but I think the BR-20 would be a really nice upgrade as not only are you getting our latest DAC and preamp technology but also a much faster and powerful streamer then the BDP-1. BR-20's will be shipping with a 2GB Pi 4, we chose the 2GB model not so much because there's an improvement over the 1GB version but because they are the same price we figured why not. We did compare the 1GB, 2GB and 4GB models and found no discernable performance different. The overall user experience is very similar to that of a BDP-2, both have 2GB of ram and gigabit ethernet; 8x the memory of a BDP-1. Audio performance of the BR-20 from its built in streamer is also again going to be our most up to date technology as well and implemented in a way that would be very comparable to a BDP-2/3 pared with a BDA-3 DAC.
No built in storage option, that's not to say we could offer it as an upgrade later; not saying we will but if we did do it we would do it in a way that is user upgradeable. At the same time I feel like your collection might be large enough to keep stored on a NAS.
We had a rough start with micro sd cards our self as I'm sure most BDP-Pi owners can relate, but I think with the BDA-3.14 we've gotten everything pretty dialed in and so far BDA-3.14 units have been far more reliable then BDP-Pi's which have also been switched to the new modules. With the BR-20, because we switched to the Pi 4 this required updating our Berry Boot based bootloader and made some changes to it. One of these changes is the option to run the Pi 4 in the BR-20 from a USB drive and I've tested this with a USB enclosure and one of the SSD's we use in the BDP-3 and it works really well and because the SSD is faster then the micro sd card the unit performs a little faster as well in certain tasks.
James is correct to say that the Pi 4 in the BR-20 still wouldn't be quite as powerful as BDP-3, hence my comparison to a BDP-2
Hope this helps,
Chris
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Hi
Waiting for an update on availability for a black BR20 in UK.
THANX
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Hi
Waiting for an update on availability for a black BR20 in UK.
THANX
Hi
We are starting production in a couple of weeks so it will depend on when it was ordered.
james
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Hi James. Do you have a date for the publication of the manual and final specs? Thank you.
Lou
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Hi
I know Gary is still working on it.
james
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Hi
We are starting production in a couple of weeks so it will depend on when it was ordered.
james
Hi James, can you please address if there are long delays in the availability of the black BR-20 units here in Canada as I placed an order last week and my dealer told me it could be April or may before I receive it due to new dac chip shortages (fire at there manufacturing facility).
Can you please shed some more light on this topic as I am really looking forward to getting this unit and it will be very hard to wait 5 months or more.
Thank you
Rob
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Hi James, can you please address if there are long delays in the availability of the black BR-20 units here in Canada as I placed an order last week and my dealer told me it could be April or may before I receive it due to new dac chip shortages (fire at there manufacturing facility).
Can you please shed some more light on this topic as I am really looking forward to getting this unit and it will be very hard to wait 5 months or more.
Thank you
Rob
Hi Rob
Yes AKM had a huge fire so DAC chips are getting hard to come by. Also we have been over-run with orders on the BR20 so any new orders are probably 3-4 months out.
james
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With the BR-20, because we switched to the Pi 4 this required updating our Berry Boot based bootloader and made some changes to it. One of these changes is the option to run the Pi 4 in the BR-20 from a USB drive and I've tested this with a USB enclosure and one of the SSD's we use in the BDP-3 and it works really well and because the SSD is faster then the micro sd card the unit performs a little faster as well in certain tasks.
James is correct to say that the Pi 4 in the BR-20 still wouldn't be quite as powerful as BDP-3, hence my comparison to a BDP-2
Hope this helps,
Chris
HI Chris,
thanks for your accurate answer.
There's no such thing as coincidence, only moments after I wrote the above post, one of my PI's bricked, and I had to re-image it. Thats ok for my experimental setup, its a beta tinkering tool after all in its current stage of development. The Bryston of course couldn't be described as such.
The quote above is meaningful to me, because in my own use with the Pi's that's exactly what we try to do, including booting it. Does the option you describe also include the USB boot sequence?
Coming to think of this, would this take away one of the USB ports of the BR-20, or could this be done internally.... would be maybe a valid option to have it taken care of internally, and keep the external ports free for attaching 'library' usb's?
I forgot to ask in the other post: since this is to be the ultimate digital device, didn't you consider including the BDP-3 as a whole? Making that the BR-20 Pro... given the fact that box is rather empty too, space wouldn't have been the issue ;) And since the aluminum body is the most expensive part of the machine, why not throw in the big brother. :green:
Put differently: I'd hate to see a BR-20 Pro version released only days after my purchase of the current version..
thanks as always, much appreciated
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HI Chris,
thanks for your accurate answer.
There's no such thing as coincidence, only moments after I wrote the above post, one of my PI's bricked, and I had to re-image it. Thats ok for my experimental setup, its a beta tinkering tool after all in its current stage of development. The Bryston of course couldn't be described as such.
The quote above is meaningful to me, because in my own use with the Pi's that's exactly what we try to do, including booting it. Does the option you describe also include the USB boot sequence?
Coming to think of this, would this take away one of the USB ports of the BR-20, or could this be done internally.... would be maybe a valid option to have it taken care of internally, and keep the external ports free for attaching 'library' usb's?
I forgot to ask in the other post: since this is to be the ultimate digital device, didn't you consider including the BDP-3 as a whole? Making that the BR-20 Pro... given the fact that box is rather empty too, space wouldn't have been the issue ;) And since the aluminum body is the most expensive part of the machine, why not throw in the big brother. :green:
Put differently: I'd hate to see a BR-20 Pro version released only days after my purchase of the current version..
thanks as always, much appreciated
Hi Marius,
You're probably right if we removed the pi we'd likely have enough space for a BDP-3 or BDP-3 like mainboard, but then the power supply would need to be substantially beefed up, those Intel chip and even AMD still consume quite a bit more current then a Pi. However as far as I am aware we don't intend to release a version of the BR-20 with a BDP-3 that's been shoe horned in to its chassis.
I looked at making an internal storage solution an option however I couldn't get it to work at boot and ran out of time before I had to move onto final testing of the bootloader, so currently its just limited to the USB ports on the rear. However two of those rear facing USB ports or USB 3.0 so this leaves one as a possible BOOT drive while leaving a second available for music and perhaps will further develop this feature to allow a single drive to both boot and store music files.
I may get time to revisit the internal USB 2.0 port that exists and see give booting from it another go after we replace Manic Moose. If this where to happen I see no reason why we wouldn't be able to offer an upgrade path for this to existing customers.
Chris
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Thanks Chris,
Appreciated. Since I use my Nas for library storage, I guess I wouldn't miss out on 1 USB port externally.
Otoh, I decided to go the Nas route because the usb drives I had attached to the bdp-1 took too much power of it. If the BR-20 would be more powerful in that department, I suppose it would be the logical way to start using these usb drives again...
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Will there be a preamp only version?
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Hi dirk
No plans on that front.
james
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Hi James I’m going to bite the bullet and start over fresh. I’m going to use this stock and stream from the internal Pi via Roon. I’m guessing I won’t be using any input? I didn’t see or what button I would be on. Thanks, Mike
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Hi James I’m going to bite the bullet and start over fresh. I’m going to use this stock and stream from the internal Pi via Roon. I’m guessing I won’t be using any input? I didn’t see or what button I would be on. Thanks, Mike
Hi Mike
The Streamer is the first button on the left.
james
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Hello,
I have read the thread, and somewhere it is mentioned that Bryston is not a fan of room correction.
However, when I was at Dirac's website. Bryston was mentioned, and selecting the link brought me to the BR20 page of Bryston's website.
Now I am a little confused. Is this an error at Dirac's website or something else?
Thanks for your time.
Regards,
Olaf
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Hello,
I have read the thread, and somewhere it is mentioned that Bryston is not a fan of room correction.
However, when I was at Dirac's website. Bryston was mentioned, and selecting the link brought me to the BR20 page of Bryston's website.
Now I am a little confused. Is this an error at Dirac's website or something else?
Thanks for your time.
Regards,
Olaf
Hi Olaf
One of our products - the SP4 Processor - has Dirac as a feature so that is why they list us.
As a company though we do not recommend room correction above about a 120Hz for a variety of reasons having to do with the way a loudspeaker radiates its energy into a listening room.
james
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James when do you think these will hit stores or demo units to listen to.
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I hope late January - we are over 100 backordered and we may be closed down for another 28 days due to Covid.
james
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Okay thanks I ordered one yesterday anyhow when she’s done she’s done.
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I hope late January - we are over 100 backordered and we may be closed down for another 28 days due to Covid.
james
Yikes! First a fire at the chip plant, then a COVID shutdown. What's the latest on production of existing orders (mine was placed in late October)?
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Yikes! First a fire at the chip plant, then a COVID shutdown. What's the latest on production of existing orders (mine was placed in late October)?
Hi
We are starting production on Monday but with a small staff so hopefully in mid January we will be able to get a few out.
james
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Hi James,
I am interested in the B20. I am wondering will there be any form of tone controls too "slightly" modify the sound of the source material? I noticed today a very interesting product from Parks Audio that does line level Tilt, Air, Treble and Base manipulation. The return of a great idea by Quad.
Cheers
Drew
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Hi Folks,
Finally starting production on the BR20 :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219723)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219724)
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Can't quite see the voltage on that one- Is it destined for the Uk!
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Hi Folks,
Finally starting production on the BR20 :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219723)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219724)
This one is mine, I call dibs.
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This one is mine, I call dibs.
17" silver, good choice ;)
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Congrats to Bryston on starting production of the BR-20; must always bring a bit of excitement to the company when new products are well received so quickly. And, from what I can tell, still without any real reviews in the audio press?
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Hello James,
What a great preamp this will be! I own the BDA-3, BHA-1, B135 cubed but one day will be purchasing a separate amp/preamp and this could be a great replacement for my existing components. My only comment/question, is why just 2 RCA input and no RCA outputs but 10 digital inputs? Once I plug my phono stage (MC) and my SACD player (no HDMI output), all RCA inputs will be used... I'm sure you guys discussed this at length but it would be nice to know the rationale. I'm puzzled!
Cheers!
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220064)
Hi Al
Good question.
We discussed the number and type of inputs and outputs and there are a number of considerations we discussed.
1. The world is moving to more digital inputs and less analog.
2. Circuit layout is a factor to maintain short signal paths and ground issues between analog and digital especially with low voltage phono circuits.
3. XLR connectors and circuits are far better for low noise operation and you can always use an XLR to RCA cable if required.
4. The amount of rear panel real estate that is available.
So all of the above and some I have probably forgot entered into the decision making.
james
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James (and team),
Congratulations on the recent transaction, and here's to the bright future of Bryston.
Question on the streamer in the BR-20 (and the BDA-3.14 for that matter). The website says, "Digital connectivity between the internal music player and the DAC is managed using the I2S protocol, a premium interface standard used for connecting digital audio devices together that preserves audio and clock data with virtually zero error." However, can performance of the streamer be improved by focusing on the incoming signal?
In a recent article in The Absolute Sound, Stephen Scharf extols the benefits of using an Uptone Audio EtherREGEN switch to reclock incoming data for digital streamers. Before spending $650 on that, I wondered if it would be effective on the BR-20 or BDA 3.14 streamers. Does the I2S protocol in the Bryston units render this superfluous? If the BDA-3 clock overrides upstream clocking, there’s no issue to fix, right? Or does the BDA-3 clock simply preserve the incoming signal as presented, without introducing new jitter (but not eliminating any pre-exisitng jitter)?
I hope I've phrased this right. Thanks in advance for your advice!
Ed
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Hi Ed
The internal connections between the BDA3.14 and BR20 are different.
The BDA3.14 internally is using the I2S connection between the streamer and the DAC, the streamer re-clocks the incoming stream, additionally, the I2S bitstream is re-clocked again to attenuate jitter before it goes to the DAC.
The BR20 internally uses a USB connection between the streamer and the DAC, which depending on how it is implemented, can be superior to I2S, it also supports higher bitrates and native DSD playback. The streamer re-clocks the incoming stream, the USB receiver receives the audio packets and recompiles it into an I2S bitstream using a very accurate clock. This I2S bitstream is re-clocked one more time before going to the DAC.
With all the re-clocking that's already being done in both the BDA3.14 and BR20, I don't know if any external re-clocking device would have a big impact on the sound.
james
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Thank you James. Very interesting. Can you also explain what is done to the audio signal (the path, re-clocking,...) when the system consist of a (BDP-3 + BDA-3) combo. And the Similarities/Differences if connection between the two units is AES/EBU, USB or S/PDIF.
François
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Thank you James. Very interesting. Can you also explain what is done to the audio signal (the path, re-clocking,...) when the system consist of a (BDP-3 + BDA-3) combo. And the Similarities/Differences if connection between the two units is AES/EBU, USB or S/PDIF.
François
Hi Francois
The BDP-3 would be similar in function to the Pi4 in the BR20 but the BDP-3 is far more capable as a processor over the Pi4. If you use the USB input on the BDA3 then it would be the same as the BR20. AESEBU is a Balanced signal and SPDIF is a standard digital interface. The AES and the SPDIF both have impedance matching transformers and re-clocking devices at the input.
james
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Thanks for the reply James. Excuse my lack of knowledge, but in terms of reducing (or eliminating) jitter, how would you rank these options from best to worst?
1) BR-20
2) (BDP-3 + BDA-3) USB
3) (BDP-3 + BDA-3) AES/EBU
4) (BDP-3 + BDA-3) SPDIF
François
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Thanks for the reply James. Excuse my lack of knowledge, but in terms of reducing (or eliminating) jitter, how would you rank these options from best to worst?
1) BR-20
2) (BDP-3 + BDA-3) USB
3) (BDP-3 + BDA-3) AES/EBU
4) (BDP-3 + BDA-3) SPDIF
François
You would want to add BDA-3.14 to get the whole picture.
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Thanks for the reply James. Excuse my lack of knowledge, but in terms of reducing (or eliminating) jitter, how would you rank these options from best to worst?
1) BR-20
2) (BDP-3 + BDA-3) USB
3) (BDP-3 + BDA-3) AES/EBU
4) (BDP-3 + BDA-3) SPDIF
François
\
First I would say the amount of jitter exhibited by good quality engineering is so far down in most cases it's a mote point.
1. Would depend on which input you used.
USB would have the least amount of jitter
AES and SPDIF would be similar
HDMI the highest jitter.
As for the BDA-3 and BDP-3 again depends on which input but same as above.
I will say it again though - you are talking about jitter levels in Bryston gear so far below the hearing threshold where it would impact the performance as to be inconsequential.
james
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I could not characterize the jitter levels as inconsequential and below the hearing threshold, since my own experience, in blind tests, with several participants, led to undeniable conclusion that the choice of digital input, transport, and consequently the jitter, had clearly audible impact, with unanimous preference of Ethernet over USB or AES, heard on superbly engineered BR-20-like product costing 16K USD. Re-clocking does not eliminate jitter, all it can do is change its audible character. The clearly audible superiority of and unanimous preference for Ethernet input can be explained only by the fact that rendering happens inside the unit, without any need for re-clocking, with digital audio signal sent directly to DAC chip input over I2S. The same was observed on another less costly BR-20-like product.
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I could not characterize the jitter levels as inconsequential and below the hearing threshold, since my own experience, in blind tests, with several participants, led to undeniable conclusion that the choice of digital input, transport, and consequently the jitter, had clearly audible impact, with unanimous preference of Ethernet over USB or AES, heard on superbly engineered BR-20-like product costing 16K USD. Re-clocking does not eliminate jitter, all it can do is change its audible character. The clearly audible superiority of and unanimous preference for Ethernet input can be explained only by the fact that rendering happens inside the unit, without any need for re-clocking, with digital audio signal sent directly to DAC chip input over I2S. The same was observed on another less costly BR-20-like product.
Hi Sasha
Ok I guess I feel the implementation of the interface is far more critical than whether it is USB or Ethernet but that's just been my experience so far in blind tests.
james
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I think DarqueKnight has the BDP-3 and BDA-3 with EtherRegen? He's also done a bit of experimenting with network switches and different storages for playback.
I've also tested every option out here with my BDP-1 here (USB vs. AES. SPDIF/BNC) and USB storage (flash drives, portable 2.5" drive, external 3.5" - all w/ or w/o Jitterbug) vs. NAS and like 5 different network switches and routers (both 100Mbps and Gigabit) with or without linear power supply. Network option isn't immune either. Currently using a dedicated Cisco router as a switch in between the BDP-1 and NAS. I even did a bridge option once that let me connect my iMac or MacBook Pro connect directly to the BDP-1 via ethernet without a router or switch in between. Difference still exists for whatever reason.
There may be benefit to using an Etherregen with the way things are at the moment. I have not tried the product myself so don't know how it sounds, but I know these things can absolutely impact SQ. I'm not sure if the BDPs are sensitive to incoming noise and/or timing or signal quality?
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Hi Sasha
Ok I guess I feel the implementation of the interface is far more critical than whether it is USB or Ethernet but that's just been my experience so far in blind tests.
james
Yes, the implementation is quite important, for example in the same system during the same testing I tried to see if there was any audible difference between USB input being fed from a battery powered notebook without any other device present on USB network and the same USB interface being fed from a typical switching PSU powered PC with many devices on USB network (mouse, keyboard, camera, etc.).
The audible difference was staggering, really an eye opener. It showed that re-clocking did not eliminate jitter, and technically it was really the difference in the amount of jitter.
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Hi Sasha
Well I guess I do not hear the vast differences in the various inputs on BDP-3, BDA3 or BR-20 that you do in your experiments. But hey perceived differences are part of this great audio hobby. :thumb:
james
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Hi Sasha
Well I guess I do not hear the vast differences in the various inputs on BDP-3, BDA3 or BR-20 that you do in your experiments. But hey perceived differences are part of this great audio hobby. :thumb:
james
Yes, great hobby and quite expensive one two :)
The quality of engineering put into BR-20 and the promise of great performance was the reason I bought it. Once I receive it I will compare it to the mentioned much more expensive product. I will be very interesting and I suspect BR-20 will hold the ground very well.
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Yes, great hobby and quite expensive one two :)
The quality of engineering put into BR-20 and the promise of great performance was the reason I bought it. Once I receive it I will compare it to the mentioned much more expensive product. I will be very interesting and I suspect BR-20 will hold the ground very well.
Hi Sasha - I will be very interested in your assessment.
james
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James, I asked this in the "NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021" but maybe this is the better thread to pose my question:
I currently have a BP-17 with both the DAC and phono card upgrades. I'm quite interested in upgrading to the BR-20 mostly for the DAC improvement over the internal card in my BP-17. My dilemma is that a reel to reel deck is still an integral part of my system so a tape loop is a necessity for me.
Which is the better of the following options:
- Keep my BP-17 and add a BDA-3
- Upgrade to BR-20 with HDMI upgrade and add a 0.5B or 1B for BOTH tape loop and phono duties
- Upgrade to BR-20 with HDMI and phono add a 0.5B or 1B for tape loop duties ONLY
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James, I asked this in the "NEXT BRYSTON PRODUCT 2021" but maybe this is the better thread to pose my question:
I currently have a BP-17 with both the DAC and phono card upgrades. I'm quite interested in upgrading to the BR-20 mostly for the DAC improvement over the internal card in my BP-17. My dilemma is that a reel to reel deck is still an integral part of my system so a tape loop is a necessity for me.
Which is the better of the following options:
- Keep my BP-17 and add a BDA-3
- Upgrade to BR-20 with HDMI upgrade and add a 0.5B or 1B for BOTH tape loop and phono duties
- Upgrade to BR-20 with HDMI and phono add a 0.5B or 1B for tape loop duties ONLY
Hi fbny
I think probably number 3 would be the best option assuming you get a reasonable return on the sale of your BP17. Otherwise I think number 1 would be the best option. Do you have a lot of digital sources - getting the BDA3 for just one source just seems like an expensive option. Also unless you need HDMI the BR20 is available without HDMI and that would save you a few dollars.
Are there not stand along Tap in/Tape out type products rather than having to use a .5B or 1B?
james
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Hi fbny
I think probably number 3 would be the best option assuming you get a reasonable return on the sale of your BP17. Otherwise I think number 1 would be the best option. Do you have a lot of digital sources - getting the BDA3 for just one source just seems like an expensive option. Also unless you need HDMI the BR20 is available without HDMI and that would save you a few dollars.
Are there not stand along Tap in/Tape out type products rather than having to use a .5B or 1B?
james
The one digital source I use mainly is an Apple Mac mini as Roon core connected through the SPDIF coax out of a BUC-1. I do also have a Bluray player and a TV connected as digital sources which are used less often.
I'd have to look into other tape loop products seeing as no matter how I do this I'd be adding another box. I guess adding a BDA-3 would be the path of least resistance!
As always, thanks for your input.
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Hi fbny
I was thinking about your system and I will have to check this with engineering but on the BP17 I believe you can have one set of your preamplifier outputs controlled by the volume control and one set is at unity gain. So I was thinking you could use the unity gain outputs to feed your Reel to Reel and then have the outputs from the Reel to Reel go back into one of the high level inputs on the BP17. That way it would act like a Tape-Loop for you.
james
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Hi!
There are no standalone tape-loop products. There are only prodcuts to expand on the single tape-loop which the preamp / integrated amp still must have.
It was commonly used with analogue recording equipment since you could switch between original input signal and the signal being recorded in real time.
Not directly related to this, but many preamps have inputs designated as recorder-in and outputs designated as recorder-out. This is highly misleading because if there is no source/recorder switch on the front panel, it is not a tape-loop feature because you won't be able to monitor the recorded signal in real time.
This, among others, was one of the distinguishing features of 3-head tape machines compared to 2-head ones back in the day.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.
Cheers,
Antun
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To add on my previous post, the tape-loop has kind of lost it's purpose because with digital recorders the only viable setting is the level, inlike analogue machines where there were many parameters that had to be set and the best way to set them was t monitor the signal as it was being recorded. Hence the tape-loop feature.
At this point, if your pream doesn't have a tape-loop input, you are out of luck. The only thing you can do is connect a pair of headphones to the recorded and then use it's source/tape switch to check the settings, presuming the recorder has a headphone output.
This is a simple matter but it complicates things for me a lot. I think BP-26 and BP-6 as well as B60 have tape-loop feature. I also know for a fact my beloved Denon amplifier does not. The previous model had two tape loops and this one has none, in favor of digital inputs. If Denon has done this and they have a long and proud analogue history, then we're really through with tape loops.
Cheers,
Antun
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The BP-17 cubed has:
Record Input
Though this input can be used as a standard analog input, the previously selected input will still accept audio. This special input allows for monitoring of audio coming back in from a recorder that is currently receiving audio from the fixed level outputs on the back of the BP-173.
That is where I currently connect my reel.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220858)
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If tape-loop is critical to you, then why not keep the BP-17 and add a BDA-3 or some other high-performance DAC? I wouldn't be concerning myself with audio advantages of BR-20 if it doesn't meet the connectivity criteria. Even if it did, I think you'd be losing too much by selling the BP-17.
Cheers,
Antun
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If tape-loop is critical to you, then why not keep the BP-17 and add a BDA-3 or some other high-performance DAC? I wouldn't be concerning myself with audio advantages of BR-20 if it doesn't meet the connectivity criteria. Even if it did, I think you'd be losing too much by selling the BP-17.
Cheers,
Antun
You are 100% correct, that is what I've decided to do...keep the BP-17 and add a BDA-3 to my system. Thank you all for your input!
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You are 100% correct, that is what I've decided to do...keep the BP-17 and add a BDA-3 to my system. Thank you all for your input!
Unless of course by some miracle, Bryston decides on offering an upgraded DAC card for the BP-17!
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Unless of course by some miracle, Bryston decides on offering an upgraded DAC card for the BP-17!
Hi
Sorry at this point that is not in the cards - we are just so far behind on current projects in engineering.
james
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Hi Sasha
Ok I guess I feel the implementation of the interface is far more critical than whether it is USB or Ethernet but that's just been my experience so far in blind tests.
james
Maybe the perceived preference for the ethernet connection is because the data is buffered in the unit? (try unplugging the ethernet cable and notice how long the music continues to play)
From what I understand I.P. data is asynchronous therefore less susceptible to jitter.
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Hi
USB is also buffered.
I did not realize Ethernet was - good to know.
james
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Maybe the perceived preference for the ethernet connection is because the data is buffered in the unit? (try unplugging the ethernet cable and notice how long the music continues to play)
From what I understand I.P. data is asynchronous therefore less susceptible to jitter.
Ethernet connection has no effect on jitter, because the NIC receives Ethernet frames, not digital audio signal, the rendering is done within the unit itself, that is why Ethernet input on every DAC that has such option sounds better than anything else sourced outside. USB can sound close to it but only if taken care of.
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Ethernet connection has no effect on jitter, because the NIC receives Ethernet frames, not digital audio signal, the rendering is done within the unit itself, that is why Ethernet input on every DAC that has such option sounds better than anything else sourced outside. USB can sound close to it but only if taken care of.
Thanks Sasha
What about the critics and their claim that Ethernet has shielding issues and switches etc. are not audio quality?
james
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Thanks Sasha
What about the critics and their claim that Ethernet has shielding issues and switches etc. are not audio quality?
james
I do not subscribe to that, Ethernet is not digital audio transport, how can then anyone say that Ethernet cable or switch is not audio quality?
Unless you introduce significant electrical noise, which could be the case of operating in noisy environment, or have defective switch, you cannot possibly affect audio reproduction. If your Ethernet cable picks up so much noise so will your cables that carry analog audio signal, in that case you have a problem that is not rooted in choice of Ethernet. Digital audio signal is born only after the frames are assembled, data extracted, and audio signal generated, which is happening beyond isolated network interface. There is no jitter prior to that. Only at that point your digital audio signal can become jittery, depending on what you do with it before you bring it to DA section for conversion. Ethernet today operates reliably at speeds that are far exceeding the requirements we are discussing. Do not cause congestion, do not have noisy NICs or defective gear spitting frames, and you have the best possible transport.
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I should add that if there is no clock dependency in audio domain then how can we talk about jitter?
I can also add that I stopped paying any attention to cabling in general a long time ago.
It is true cables can sound dramatically different but only when intentionally constructed to introduce colorations or when used incorrectly in applications they were not designed for. When you compare cables that have proper capacitance, inductivity, insulation and construction for given purpose then you will struggle to hear differences regardless of their cost. Then you realize that it becomes much more effective to spend money on something that matters and brings improvements in transparency.
Almost anything can make an audible difference, but sounding different does not mean being more transparent. That is why I have been stuck with the same speakers and amplification for nearly a decade, every now and then I start looking at possible upgrades but I simply cannot find a component that would clearly bring a more transparent sound. There have been no fundamental improvements. Active speakers using DSP are very promising but nearly all are built to a price point with serious compromises that ruin the potential. For these reasons I have been stuck with Bryston amplification, I had nearly everything from Bryston lineup, up to 28B (not inclusive) and could not find something else that would be more satisfying. I am not saying it is perfect amplification and performs universally well no matter what kind of load it has to drive, I just happen to like what I hear. And based on my experience I decided to purchase blindly BR-20, it seems nearly everything in this product was done the way it should be, the potential for transparency is big. I have very high expectations; hope it will not be disappointing performer when it finally arrives
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Hi Sasha
Well we certainly think alike and I am sure you are going to find the BR-20 fits in nicely with your system.
Best
james
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Hi,
Does the BR-20 share the same external dimensions as the BP-17 Cubed? Thanks.
Ash
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Dimensions
Inches: 17 or 19 W x 4.6 H x 13 D
Cm: 43. or 48.3 W x 11.6 H x 33 D
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Thanks James.
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What DAC chip does the BR 20 use?
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What DAC chip does the BR 20 use?
I heard its the same chip used in the BDA-3
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Hi Folks,
The first 20 units shipped out last week. :thumb:
james
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221499)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 First Impressions
Hi Folks
Here is our first impression from someone who has been in the industry as long as myself.
"Hi Gents,
As one of the fortunate people to get my BR-20 early on I wanted to send you all a short note.
From the first few minutes I turned on and listened to the BR-20 this past weekend and for the many hours since I have been nothing short of stunned by the incredible performance.
I have not derived this much pleasure from a new component in my system for probably decades. This is the most involving, wonderfully musical and easily the least "digital" preamp I have used. it is making music in my system sound so much more like real music should. Incredible detail, image space, etc. all of the audiophile superlatives one might hope for. I never grew tired of listening as there was never any listener fatigue. Very rare indeed for a digital component.
I don't mind telling you that it replaced some other very high end components I was evaluating. A preamp, streamer, and DAC with a total retail of over $24,000 US. To say the BR-20 was easily competitive and in some ways even a little better was stunning.
I want to wish you all a very big congratulations for an amazing achievement and one that will undoubtedly result in some fantastic sales for the company! Can't wait to see what this amazing team comes up with next!
Thank you to all of you!
Best Regards,
Steve Brothman"
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SN 10 has arrived.
Acclimatizing...
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SN 10 has arrived.
Acclimatizing...
Great !
james
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SN 10 has arrived.
Acclimatizing...
...i guess there is someone smiling all day long!
congrats and let us know your impressions :thumb:
al.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221745)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 – Dave’s Fav
March 2021
Bryston’s new state of the art preamp/DAC has been dubbed “BR” to honor Bryston’s Brian Russell, who died in 2020. Brian was Bryston’s outgoing national sales manager for 45+ years.
BR-20 is a brand new design, achieving state of the art lows in noise and distortion, that comes with stunning Bryston DAC built in. When you consider what the BDA-3 DAC sells for separately and considering you get it built in BR-20… it’s a fantastic start! The BR-20 is also a ‘fully balanced’ analog preamp with 2 balanced ins/outs. It also has a high end headphone amp built in.
BR-20’s sonic character is immediate, or, transparent, if you prefer that term. The resolution of BR-20 is to die for. You won’t have to guess, or hunt for any detail within the music. It’s all there, in proper balance. BR-20 combines the speed/clarity of a great digital design, with its eminently musical performance. With more than a few high end preamps, you can actually hear their input sections being saturated. The overloading casts a pall of IM on to the music. BR-20 strips any such artifacts out of the equation.
OK. Permit me a bit of whining. I don’t think Bryston preamps have EVER gotten their due. Bryston power amps have been SO HIGHLY regarded that its preamps have been somewhat lost in the shuffle.
I, for one, have never understood, why the rags have appreciated how great the amps are- but have routinely ignored how strong the preamps are. I mean, it’s just crazy! BP-26 has been among the finest preamps on the market since the early 2000s, and yet it rarely gets mentioned with commensurate competition. If you’ve owned a BP-26, BP-17/3 or even BP-25 from back in the day, you know how clean and quiet these Brystons have been. It’s almost as though the mags have gone so APE over the power amps that they feel it would be blatherskite to gush similarly over the preamps as well. I promise you, THIS is about to change. BR-20 is such a magnificent sounding piece, that even the snooty mags that rave about $80k Swiss built gear, are going to sing the praises of Bryston BR-20!
You read it here (first?!). I predict, that with the intro of BR-20, Bryston will, at long last, be recognized for making not just among the very best POWER AMPS in the music world, but that this preamp will finally win Bryston the highest echelon of accolades as well!
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221800)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 – Active Mini T-REX Norm
March 2021
I connected up my new Bryston BR-20 to one analog input, an FM tuner (with rabbit ears!), and added the BAX-1 Active crossover for output and started listening - and immediately noticed within the next song or two that cymbals seemed more lively. Both of these observations were good things and as I listened more I found that everything was just slightly more "listenable" than with the BP-17C. I found this a bit surprising since I have always been very pleased with the BP-17C. The BAX-1 feeds 2 X 2.5B3 and 2 X 7B3 + Active Mini T-Rex.
Now, several listening days later I am still fully enjoying the new (and, I think, better) sound that the BR-20 is delivering. So overall I am very happy with the new unit. I only have a couple of sources: analog tuner and BDP-3/BDA-3 and find the integrated BDA-3 and RPi to be at least the sonic equal of the previous separates but I haven't done any real A/B comparisons so this is just an impression. It does tell me though that I will not be needing the separate components in this system so the BR-20 has successfully accomplished the downsizing I was hoping for. Note that I do not use the full power of my BDP-3 since I don't have a huge music collection nor do I use any services such as Roon that might demand more processing power than the RPi can deliver - so the BR-20 RPi is a good fit for me.
After I have more experience I will pass on some comments and suggestions about the BR-20 that could be considerations for future iterations or maybe firmware updates.
For now I would just like to reiterate that I am very happy with the improved sound.
Norm V
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Hi James. Will the BR-20 have the capability of the BP-17/BP-17 Cubed in terms of a Home Theater Bypass via remote? Thank you.
Lou
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Hi James. Will the BR-20 have the capability of the BP-17/BP-17 Cubed in terms of a Home Theater Bypass via remote? Thank you.
Lou
Hi Lou
It is not implemented yet but it can be in software going forward.
james
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So, my BR20 has landed in the UK for a couple weeks now but I went for the 2 upgrades HDMI and Phono and these boards have not yet arrived.
When are these boards likely to arrive in the UK approx please as I need to decide whether to take the unit without these installed or wait for them to be installed then delivered - just a realistic timescale would be great to help me decide.
Thanks
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So, my BR20 has landed in the UK for a couple weeks now but I went for the 2 upgrades HDMI and Phono and these boards have not yet arrived.
When are these boards likely to arrive in the UK approx please as I need to decide whether to take the unit without these installed or wait for them to be installed then delivered - just a realistic timescale would be great to help me decide.
Thanks
Hi Drew
I will ask production for you. I believe the HDMI boards are the problem because of all the parts shortages throughout the world.
james
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HI Drew
I checked and I was correct that the part shortage is the problem so I am sorry I can not be definitive on delivery times.
james
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Ok, Thanks James- No problem- I'll have it delivered and added in later
Drew
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James, now that the BR-20 is shipping, are there any plans to update the website with the user manuals or technical specifications? I note they both still say “coming soon.” Excited to see more details!
Ed
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James, now that the BR-20 is shipping, are there any plans to update the website with the user manuals or technical specifications? I note they both still say “coming soon.” Excited to see more details!
Ed
Hi Ed
We are redoing the website due to the merger so things will change going forward.
How can I help in giving you more details?
https://bryston.com/preamps/br-20/
james
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I guess right now I'm most interested in the headphone amp section. Do you have power, impedance or other specs for it yet? I'm curious how it compares to the HPA-1, and its ability to drive high impedance headphones. Thanks!
Ed
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Exciting news. I’m collecting a BR-20 from my dealer tomorrow on loan and I have told him that if I like it he’s not getting it back. Brand new and still unopened. Hopefully will replace a BP17 cubed.
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Exciting news. I’m collecting a BR-20 from my dealer tomorrow on loan and I have told him that if I like it he’s not getting it back. Brand new and still unopened. Hopefully will replace a BP17 cubed.
Hi Clive - great please let me know your thoughts.
james
PS - what dealer?
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Hi James
The BR20 arrived home yesterday. It didn’t take long to get it playing music and out of the box sounded great. As yet I’m unable to tell a difference on the pre section against the BP 17/3 but will look forward to that improving as I’m sure it will. The DAC section is simply outstanding and blew my Chord Qutest DAC off the planet in all manner of ways. Again I’m sure it will even improve further.
That’s the good news. The bad news is the streamer is simply a PITA. I was able to get Qobuz up and running but the BR20 will not find my NAS. I do not and never will use Roon and using Magic Moose is unacceptable unless your a computer geek, which I’m certainly not. For streaming I’m sticking to my Auralic Aries G1 using their Lightening DS app (Now that’s how to control streaming). In my opinion control is everything.
The end result is the BR 20 is staying and you should certainly be congratulated on a superb Pre/DAC.
My dealer here is HiFi Lounge in Biggleswade Bedfordshire, who I’ve been using for many years.
Clive
PS The BR 20 IR Remote is fabulous. Ergonomically brilliant, easy to hold, buttons have a great feel. Goodbye brick.
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Hi James
The BR20 arrived home yesterday. It didn’t take long to get it playing music and out of the box sounded great. As yet I’m unable to tell a difference on the pre section against the BP 17/3 but will look forward to that improving as I’m sure it will. The DAC section is simply outstanding and blew my Chord Qutest DAC off the planet in all manner of ways. Again I’m sure it will even improve further.
That’s the good news. The bad news is the streamer is simply a PITA. I was able to get Qobuz up and running but the BR20 will not find my NAS. I do not and never will use Roon and using Magic Moose is unacceptable unless your a computer geek, which I’m certainly not. For streaming I’m sticking to my Auralic Aries G1 using their Lightening DS app (Now that’s how to control streaming). In my opinion control is everything.
The end result is the BR 20 is staying and you should certainly be congratulated on a superb Pre/DAC.
My dealer here is HiFi Lounge in Biggleswade Bedfordshire, who I’ve been using for many years.
Clive
Hi Clive
Thank you for the feedback and glad you liked the sound. Not sure what is going on with the NAS issue? What kind do you have? I use a QNAP and no issues there.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222360)
james
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James, I use a Synology DS217 NAS with 2x Western Digital Red drives which gives me 6Tb of storage.
The NAS was easily discovered by my Aries, LG OLED TV, my iPad, Chord Poly/Mojo and my wife’s Sonos.
The 2 problems I’m finding bearing in mind that I got Qobuz up and running in seconds was the non connection to the NAS and the faff of running software that is so user unfriendly. I would suggest if possible to have a look at Lightening DS to see what I mean.
I mean all this very respectfully and wish you and the rest of the crew good luck in the new venture.
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James, I use a Synology DS217 NAS with 2x Western Digital Red drives which gives me 6Tb of storage.
The NAS was easily discovered by my Aries, LG OLED TV, my iPad, Chord Poly/Mojo and my wife’s Sonos.
The 2 problems I’m finding bearing in mind that I got Qobuz up and running in seconds was the non connection to the NAS and the faff of running software that is so user unfriendly. I would suggest if possible to have a look at Lightening DS to see what I mean.
I mean all this very respectfully and wish you and the rest of the crew good luck in the new venture.
Ok thanks - so you think it may just be the complication in MM of setting up the NAS that is the issue?
james
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222361)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222368)
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I’ve had a bit of a eureka moment but I have a couple questions.
I’m planning on connecting my 500Gb Samsung SSD which has all my stored music on.
1) Will the BR20 have enough power for the USB or do I need to use a powered USB connector?
2) When loading a album, can I do whole album with 1 press as against pressing each individual track?
I’m still finding the software a little Heath Robinson and so far much prefer an app but I am persevering.
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Sorry to keep on but I seem to have found another issue.
I seem to have answered my own no 2 question. I’m playing around with Qobuz and I’ve found the way to use 1 button press to upload whole album. However I’ve now uncovered another problem. When using Magic Moose on Qobuz I’m not getting hi Rez while I do on LDS. I have hi Rez on my Qobuz account. Is it me or what?
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Hi CLive
I get HI-Res on my Qobuz account so it must be in the settings - I will check mine when I get home tonight.
james
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I think Francois might be correct in hinting that your Synology has a UPnP server running which your other devices are automatically finding (since you did not talk about having to enter network mount information), while the BR-20 is looking for an SMB network share. The BR-20 will look for SMB shares on the local network, which should automatically pop-up under the "NAS Setup" > "Add Share" > "Devices" pop-up menu. You can also manually enter the SMB mount information on that screen.
Regarding Qobuz, there is a "Qobuz" > "Sound Quality" pop-up menu you could double-check. I selected "Studio" from that pop-up menu and successfully played back 24-bit 44.1kHz, 24-bit 48kHz, 24-bit 96kHz, and 24-bit 192kHz.
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I think Francois might be correct in hinting that your Synology has a UPnP server running which your other devices are automatically finding (since you did not talk about having to enter network mount information), while the BR-20 is looking for an SMB network share. The BR-20 will look for SMB shares on the local network, which should automatically pop-up under the "NAS Setup" > "Add Share" > "Devices" pop-up menu. You can also manually enter the SMB mount information on that screen.
Regarding Qobuz, there is a "Qobuz" > "Sound Quality" pop-up menu you could double-check. I selected "Studio" from that pop-up menu and successfully played back 24-bit 44.1kHz, 24-bit 48kHz, 24-bit 96kHz, and 24-bit 192kHz.
Neko
Thanks for your help - Do you have a BR-20?
james
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I have the BDA-3 and BDP-3 combo, and this was the solution for me. My guess is that the software that controls the streaming section of the BR-20 is similar to the software in the BDP-3. If the minimum SMB protocol is not set to SMB1, the BDP won’t “see” the NAS. Took me a while to find this one so I’m glad if it can help.
François
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Neko
Thanks for your help - Do you have a BR-20?
Yes, we have had a BR-20 for a couple of weeks now. :)
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I’ve had a bit of a eureka moment but I have a couple questions.
I’m planning on connecting my 500Gb Samsung SSD which has all my stored music on.
1) Will the BR20 have enough power for the USB or do I need to use a powered USB connector?
2) When loading a album, can I do whole album with 1 press as against pressing each individual track?
I’m still finding the software a little Heath Robinson and so far much prefer an app but I am persevering.
Clive - just a note that many of us have been using attached drives, bus powered, for some time. Even my old, getting on in years, BDP-1 plays my 1 tb attached ssd drive without problems. And as for the interface, try a trial of Rigelian; very clean, simple, and continuously being developed.
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Hi guys, me again.
I’ve succeeded in getting my SSD drive connected using a USB powered distribution connector and I’ve managed to get into Qobuz settings and put in the correct HiRez option. It was me when 1st logging into Qobuz not noticing the options menu. Muppet.
Still can’t access my NAS but this is no longer a problem as the SSD supplies my music files.
I’ve even managed to make a my.Bryston app on my iPad.
So all now seems well and good and I will carry on with the burn-in.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222454)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 Sunny Components
March 2021
Sunil to Bryston – BR-20 Preamp/DAC/Streamer
We finally got the Bryston BR-20 set up in our system.
Boy! This is shocking! WOW! Burning it in but first hour of listening tells me that this is going to be sensational.
Coherent, bold, detailed without any harshness, immense sound stage, leaning ever so slightly to a warm tone basically because it must have a very, very low noise floor.
This out-performs my 2 chassis Bryston easily. I even compared it with a 10K pre-amplifier...No Contest. Boy the guys at Bryston were not messing around.
If it were in a 5K chassis it would sell for 20K>
I have it paired with Vandersteen Quatro CT and Sub. More to come my friends...Start saving your pennies as once you hear the music flow from this system, your credit card will jump right out of your wallet.
Sunil,
Sunny Components
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Burn-In probably 90% done with the results being awesome and amazingly transparent, nothing I’ve ever heard comes remotely close. The insight and clarity beggars belief. The system has been on for a good 8-10 hours a day since last Wednesday (5.5days) and I’ve mainly been using the internal streamer (to my surprise) which sound wise is also superb.
Control issues are still on my mind and I’m experiencing some problems controlling Qobuz which I hope someone could advise me on. How do I add or subtract whole albums from favourites being my biggest head scratcher.
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Hi Clive
To remove an album or playlist see below.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222607)
Click on the file and drag to the left. Turns RED - Then let go (If getting rid of list or song in a playlist on the left side Drag Right)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222608)
Hit Remove
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222609)
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Thanks for that James. BUT it doesn’t work. I suspect it’s because your using a PC and I use an iPad. If anybody can help who also uses Apple products I would be very grateful
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It works on my iPad.
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Thanks for that James. BUT it doesn’t work. I suspect it’s because your using a PC and I use an iPad. If anybody can help who also uses Apple products I would be very grateful
You have to grab it by the album art or folder icon, can be a little trick on touch enabled devices.
Chris
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Thanks guys
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I have scrolled the album cover thumbnail left and as it moves over and when I let go it just disappears!
However I have found a work-around. By logging on to the Qobuz app on my iPad I have full control of favourites, then back to My.Bryston and all is sweet. I don’t need to alter favourites daily and sometimes not for weeks. So after nearly a week I’ve found ways of bi-passing my two problems. Using a SSD instead of a NAS and using Qobuz dedicated app for fine control. Viola.
Thank you and others for your help and hope I’m not too much of a PITA.
Clive
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maybe this has been answered--long thread---when will the BR-20 be Roon Ready? If I got one now, does it have RAAT installed so I can use it with Roon even if it isn't certified yet? Has Bryston already sent Roon a unit?
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maybe this has been answered--long thread---when will the BR-20 be Roon Ready? If I got one now, does it have RAAT installed so I can use it with Roon even if it isn't certified yet? Has Bryston already sent Roon a unit?
Hi
It has to be certified before you can use ROON. We have submitted a unit so it depends on when they let us know. Its usually a few months.
james
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Thanks for the quick response. I've heard it's taking a while to get a BR-20 once ordered, so mabe it would be Roon Ready by the time I got it!
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Thanks for the quick response. I've heard it's taking a while to get a BR-20 once ordered, so mabe it would be Roon Ready by the time I got it!
Hi
Yes before we started shipping we were 108 units backordered and have about 50 units in the market now.
The interesting point is that the reaction as been so positive that we are getting further behind.
james
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From reading this thread, I am left with the impression that you can't connect the BR-20 to your network via wifi. is that correct?
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As the BR-20 stands, no you can’t connect via wi-fi. You can however connect an external wi-fi dongle which a dealer can usually supply. They are inexpensive and easy to install, usually into a USB socket.
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thanks. it seems to me that a unit with streaming capability should come ready for wifi.
does the wifi work well with an antennae? i guess if you are connecting directly to the Rpi it should. does Bryston recommend a particular antennae?
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Chris may want to jump in but here is what I have on the Dongle:
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston WiFI Dongle Accessory Kit
July 2017
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222984)
The Bryston WiFi Dongle Accessory Kit is a product that can be purchased by itself or with the purchase of a Bryston BDP Digital Player.
The BDP will gain WiFi capability no longer requiring the user/installer to run a network cable, setting up a WiFi bridge or Powerline AV kit
The Bryston WiFi Dongle Accessory Kit will be available by September and will correspond with the release of our S2.36 firmware, which among other things will include comprehensive support for the accessory kit as described in the manual (a preliminary copy is linked below).
The WiFi dongle included in this kit is capable of up to 300Mbps 802.11n and will work with 802.11a/b/g/n wireless capable networks. Most if not all 802.11ac networks should be backwards compatible with one if not all of these versions. An 802.11ac dongle wasn’t chosen for a variety of reasons, the primary of which was the limitation USB 2 interface.
The kit will include:
• WiFi Dongle
• 3 foot USB extension cable
(to avoid blocking neighboring USB Ports and positioning the dongle away from gear if needed)
• Instructions
james
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Started working on integrating Roon Ready into the BR-20 a few weeks ago and tonight noticed some new changes to Roon's UI that I thought was kind humorous and please don't take this the wrong way I think Roon is a great piece of software and totally understand why its so popular, I just prefer the thing I've invested so much time and effort in so please bashing of either piece of software I just felt like sharing. However I fully endorse the community voicing there opinions about what piece of software they like to use for listening :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223101)
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Started working on integrating Roon Ready into the BR-20 a few weeks ago and tonight noticed some new changes to Roon's UI that I thought was kind humorous and please don't take this the wrong way I think Roon is a great piece of software and totally understand why its so popular, I just prefer the thing I've invested so much time and effort in so please bashing of either piece of software I just felt like sharing. However I fully endorse the community voicing there opinions about what piece of software they like to use for listening :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223101)
What am I not seeing/missing here?
(I haven't been on Roon in some time. 10% Manic Moose for album listening. Rest is Spotify.) I strongly hope that native bit-perfect Spotify playback will come eventually to Bryston without Shairplay.
Also, while Manic Moose may be lacking as of now with other options, I still really like it for its purpose. Straight forward. I am excited to see what you come up with Chris. All the best!!!!! :thumb:
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thanks. it seems to me that a unit with streaming capability should come ready for wifi.
does the wifi work well with an antennae? i guess if you are connecting directly to the Rpi it should. does Bryston recommend a particular antennae?
Hi jb
There is a concern with internal Wi-Fi especially since it's pretty high power. It can cause all kinds of interference on high frequency signals and ultimately the audio itself.
It is very difficult to shield it so we felt it was better left out of a high quality product like the BR-20 and to use wired Ethernet instead.
james
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What am I not seeing/missing here?
I've apparently only used roon for a total of 9 minutes over the previous 4 weeks
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Also, while Manic Moose may be lacking as of now with other options, I still really like it for its purpose. Straight forward. I am excited to see what you come up with Chris. All the best!!!!! :thumb:
Thanks and thanks for sharing how you use your BDP :D
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I've apparently only used roon for a total of 9 minutes over the previous 4 weeks
Oh yeah, mine probably looks even worse. I'll open it from time to time to check up on things and help out, but I don't really think much about it nowadays.
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Thanks and thanks for sharing how you use your BDP :D
It's Spotify 90-95%% of the time and I actually rarely listen to full albums on Spotify. It's almost exclusively curated playlists for whatever mood, genre, or language. They really do have an understanding of what is appropriate for particular playlist and what goes together. That's still quite a mess on other streaming platforms and on Roon.
I'll fire up Manic Moose typically only right before bed and listen to an album from start to finish in a dim light room with light gaming.
I will say that I have been having problems with Manic Moose out of nowhere as of late. I haven't updated the firmware in months so I don't know what's causing it. WAV files from either NAS or USB work fine. However, the same FLAC files can often cause the system to freeze where you lose control and you can't stop the music or change it. Sometimes it recovers, other times it doesn't. It's never been an issue in the past. This is 16/44.1, so nothing crazy like 24/96 or 24/192. So I've been avoiding FLAC files now... :(
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My new BR-20 is settling in very well and now that I’ve ironed out some of the bugs I was experiencing like trying to get it to find and use my NAS I’m overjoyed. It took a down-load of the Manic Moose manual and a number of YouTube video’s to work out the drill down menus but I got there in the end. An absolutely superb piece of kit which builds on the strengths of the BP-17/3 it replaced.
I also like the new remote controller, which has a nice feel and weight. I don’t miss the lack of illumination and the buttons have are easier than the BR-2. I’m not pressing the off button when I’m trying to raise the volume.
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Hi Clive
Glad you are enjoying your BR-20 - it continues to surprise me as well. :thumb:
james
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A quick question. I have both Ethernet sockets connected (because I can). Do I really need the SVC Ethernet permanently connected? Do I need it for updates?
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A quick question. I have both Ethernet sockets connected (because I can). Do I really need the SVC Ethernet permanently connected? Do I need it for updates?
Hi
Only for updates so you can disconnect the SVC.
I usually just swap over the streamer Ethernet to the SVC when needed for updates.
james
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Hi jb
There is a concern with internal Wi-Fi especially since it's pretty high power. It can cause all kinds of interference on high frequency signals and ultimately the audio itself.
It is very difficult to shield it so we felt it was better left out of a high quality product like the BR-20 and to use wired Ethernet instead.
james
Thanks for the reply. I don't understand the electronics, but I just note that there are some high end streamers that have wifi ready to go, e.g. Auralic Aires G2.1 and Naim ND 555. And of course lots of lower end streamers too.
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Thanks for the reply. I don't understand the electronics, but I just note that there are some high end streamers that have wifi ready to go, e.g. Auralic Aires G2.1 and Naim ND 555. And of course lots of lower end streamers too.
Hi
I guess it comes down to what each company believes is the best way to provide as accurate and noise free a signal as possible.
james
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223437)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 – Newcastle U.K.
April 2021
Cloud6 Consulting
Hi Bryston folks;
I only recently installed one of these Bryston BR-20’s here in Newcastle, U.K.
Have to say how fantastic it is.
Operationally and audio wise.
Very nice job by you guys as always.
Cloud6 Consulting
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224006)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 – Audio Ark - Edmonton
April 2021
Audio Ark
More on the Bryston BR-20 Preamplifier.
Just wanted to share just how impressed we are with this one.
It really does have it all:
* resolution
* dynamics
* articulation
* stunning feature set.
In a word; magnificent.
Mr. Brian Russell would have been so, so proud.
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Hi Rob
Yes AKM had a huge fire so DAC chips are getting hard to come by. Also we have been over-run with orders on the BR20 so any new orders are probably 3-4 months out.
james
Hi James,
I know you are a busy man, but could you please give an update when I can expect to receive my preorder for the Bryston BR-20 in 17” black with hdmi upgrade as I placed my order in early November 2020.
I am located near Toronto
Thank you
Rob
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Hi James,
I know you are a busy man, but could you please give an update when I can expect to receive my preorder for the Bryston BR-20 in 17” black with hdmi upgrade as I placed my order in early November 2020.
I am located near Toronto
Thank you
Rob
Hi Rob
Which dealer and I will check. It has been difficult as we were 108 units backordered before we started shipping. We have shipped about 80 units now but are still over 100 backordered - the lockdown has not helped!
james
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Hi Rob
Which dealer and I will check. It has been difficult as we were 108 units backordered before we started shipping. We have shipped about 80 units now but are still over 100 backordered - the lockdown has not helped!
james
Audio one in concord
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Hello Mr. Tanner—
I'm ready to pre-order a BR-20 except. . .
I can't find any information on three specs that, for me, are important for system compatibility:
— maximum balanced analogue voltage input in Vrms or dBu
— maximum balanced analogue voltage output in Vrms or dBu
— analogue preamp gain in dB
Thanks,
Joel Tatelman
Toronto
-
Hi Joel,
I will have to ask Engineering on that.
james
-
Thanks, James.
Shall await further news.
Joel.
-
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224581)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224580)
-
Hi Folks,
There is a review on the BR-20 in the June issue of the German magazine 'Stereoplay'. I do not speak German but I am told it's pretty good!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224652)
Conclusion:
With the BR-20, the Canadian company Bryston has a superlative streaming preamplifier in its range.
Although the firmware of the newcomer can still handle an update, what counts in the end is the absolutely professional technology, the top measurement results and the outstanding sound.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224656)
Hi James,
On the first Page of Review it is stated:
in German:
Bei dem brandaktuellen BR-20 hat der kanadische High-End-Hersteller Bryston mehrere Top-Einzelkomponenten in einem Gerät zusammengefasst. Das Resultat istein Streaming-Vorverstärker in professioneller Technik und höchster Klangqualität
In English:
With brand new BR-20 of the Canadian High-End-Manufacturer Bryston includes a few Top Separate units. The result is one Streaming/DAC/Preamp with professional credentials and the highest Sound Quality.
In German:
Kompromisslos eingesetzte Profitechnik beschert dem Bryston BR-20 exzellente Resultate für Messungen und Klang.
In English:
The professional design used without compromise brings Bryston BR-20 fantastic results in Measurements and Sound Quality.
-
Hello Mr. Tanner—
I'm ready to pre-order a BR-20 except. . .
I can't find any information on three specs that, for me, are important for system compatibility:
— maximum balanced analogue voltage input in Vrms or dBu
— maximum balanced analogue voltage output in Vrms or dBu
— analogue preamp gain in dB
Thanks,
Joel Tatelman
Toronto
Hi Joel
From engineering:
With all measurements performed at 1kHz and assuming 0.1% for the clipping point:
Max balanced input level is 5.75 Vrms
Max balanced output level is 14.0 Vrms
The analogue stages themselves are unity gain (input buffers and output driver) and the max system gain is +12dB with the level control at maximum.
-
Hi Folks,
There is a review on the BR-20 in the June issue of the German magazine 'Stereoplay'. I do not speak German but I am told it's pretty good!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224652)
Conclusion:
With the BR-20, the Canadian company Bryston has a superlative streaming preamplifier in its range.
Although the firmware of the newcomer can still handle an update, what counts in the end is the absolutely professional technology, the top measurement results and the outstanding sound.
James, any chance you would be able to get this translated so that we could all see this review?
-
James can I assume no analog section for DAC using preamp analog instead ? Great idea good luck.
charles
-
Hi James,
I speak German and a rightly excellent review of the BR20! In particular they were absolutely blown away by the digital performance/measurements.
It’s not often the German mags use terms like “Das ist super!”.
Andrew
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Hi Joel
From engineering:
With all measurements performed at 1kHz and assuming 0.1% for the clipping point:
Max balanced input level is 5.75 Vrms
Max balanced output level is 14.0 Vrms
The analogue stages themselves are unity gain (input buffers and output driver) and the max system gain is +12dB with the level control at maximum.
James, Many thanks for taking the trouble to get this information from Engineering. Exactly what I needed to know. Regards, Joel.
-
Hello James,
Sorry for not asking all my questions in a single post. . .
In the past with various Bryston products (e.g., the BCD-1 and the BDP-3), I was able to attached rack-ears to the sides of the case, thus enabling me to mount it in a standard 19" rack.
Will this also be possible with the BR-20?
Thanks! Joel Tatelman.
-
Hello James,
Sorry for not asking all my questions in a single post. . .
In the past with various Bryston products (e.g., the BCD-1 and the BDP-3), I was able to attached rack-ears to the sides of the case, thus enabling me to mount it in a standard 19" rack.
Will this also be possible with the BR-20?
Thanks! Joel Tatelman.
Hi Joel,
Thats a good question - I will ask engineering.
james
-
Hi Joel,
No sorry I checked and we do not have rack-ears for the BR-20 faceplates yet. We are looking at offering them in the future.
james
-
Hello James,
Another favorable review of the BR-20, this time in the hi-fi news & Record Review of July 2021.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225068)
Verdict: DAC, network streamer and preamplier combined, Bryston’s BR-20 certainly gives you a lot for its ticket price. In an ideal world there’d be a bit more renement to both its physical appearance and control platform, but it’s an astonishing performer able to dig deep into the detail and nuance of tracks across all genres and sampling rates. Lace up to a potent balanced power amp and enjoy the show!
Sound Quality: 87%
WillyP
-
Thanks Willy - much appreciated - I will look forward to reading the article.
james
-
Hello James,
Another favorable review of the BR-20, this time in the hi-fi news & Record Review of July 2021.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225068)
Verdict: DAC, network streamer and preamplier combined, Bryston’s BR-20 certainly gives you a lot for its ticket price. In an ideal world there’d be a bit more renement to both its physical appearance and control platform, but it’s an astonishing performer able to dig deep into the detail and nuance of tracks across all genres and sampling rates. Lace up to a potent balanced power amp and enjoy the show!
Sound Quality: 87%
WillyP
How have you got that? I’ve got a subscription and my copy hasn’t arrived yet, officially not out till Friday.
-
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225078)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 – U.K. Review
Hi Folks,
Review on the BR-20 in the June issue of the U.K. magazine 'hi-fi-news’ by Paul Miller. Check out the industry leading LAB results!
“Verdict:
DAC, network streamer and preamplifier combined.
Bryston’s BR-20 certainly gives you a lot for its ticket price. In an ideal world there’d be a bit more refinement to both its physical appearance and control platform, but it’s an astonishing performer able to dig deep into the detail and nuance of tracks across all genres and sampling rates.
Lace up to a potent balanced power amp and enjoy the show!”
• ‘Precision’ is the watchword for this preamplifier, defining both its engineering and technical performance.
• The digitally governed volume control, for example, precisely indicates the gain of the BR-20.
• Maximum output is 13.5V and distortion through the midrange is ~0.00004%, and only slightly ‘higher’ at 0.00009-0.0002% for 0dBV (20Hz-20kHz).
• The S/N is a wide 100dB (A-wtd, re. 0dBV) while the analogue in/out frequency response is flat to within ±0.01dB from 20Hz-20kHz and extends from 3Hz-100kHz at –0.3dB. Importantly, and in contrast with many amps/preamps, the volume circuit is correctly buffered and so the HF response does not change with volume position.
• Distortion falls to as low as 0.00005% through the midrange and 0.00015% at 20kHz
• The A-wtd S/N is fabulously wide at 118.4dB, linearity good to ±0.2dB over a 110dB range and channel separation all but ‘absolute’ at 145dB!
• Jitter rejection is also nearly absolute at 145dB! Jitter rejection is also nearly absolute at <5psec.
-
Hi James
Silly nitpicking point (sorry). If you look at the top left of the cover photo it says July 2021. Still haven’t got my copy yet, so am going to have to phone the subscription dept.
Looks like a truly great review of this fantastic Pre/DAC/streamer. Pity they had to comment on its looks but I love it. Operating the BR-20 is still a bit of a PITA with my latest discovery being the balance control not working from remote (it does on main unit)!
-
Hi James
Silly nitpicking point (sorry). If you look at the top left of the cover photo it says July 2021. Still haven’t got my copy yet, so am going to have to phone the subscription dept.
Looks like a truly great review of this fantastic Pre/DAC/streamer. Pity they had to comment on its looks but I love it. Operating the BR-20 is still a bit of a PITA with my latest discovery being the balance control not working from remote (it does on main unit)!
Hi Clive
Ya that was my error - I assumed it was the June issue and it turned out to be the July.
I agree the looks are fine and what has to be emphasized is the performance is a function of circuit layout so 'form follows function'. Getting distortion and noise down to the levels we have requires very specific positioning of all components in the proper place.
Yes we noticed the balance control and new software will remedy that.
best
james
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Hi James
Thanks for the quick reply. When is the new software due?
Clive
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Hi James
Thanks for the quick reply. When is the new software due?
Clive
We are just final testing it now so it should be in the next few weeks.
james
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Just received my copy of HiFi News July 2021. WOW, what a review of the BR-20, those distortion figures are numbers to behold. My question is simple, is this the very best Pre Amp?
-
Just received my copy of HiFi News July 2021. WOW, what a review of the BR-20, those distortion figures are numbers to behold. My question is simple, is this the very best Pre Amp?
Hi Clive - you mean the very best from Bryston or the very best in the industry?
I think it comes down to how many people feel measurements count and does that translate to musical accuracy.
james
-
James
To clarify. I meant that I think that the BR-20 is the best I’ve ever heard. Yes the figures are truly great and you’re right it’s about how it sounds. I used to manage a HiFi store before retirement and have considerable experience with other manufacturers available here in the UK.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225211)
-
HI Clive
Yes I have always maintained there is a difference between "Production" and "Reproduction".
The purpose of our products are to 'Reproduce" the input only.
james
-
Hi and good morning, James. Congratulations on all that is going on at Bryston and good luck with the Azione arrangement. Will the new version of the software add the Home Theater Bypass capability? Thank you and take care.
Lou
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Hi and good morning, James. Congratulations on all that is going on at Bryston and good luck with the Azione arrangement. Will the new version of the software add the Home Theater Bypass capability? Thank you and take care.
Lou
Hi Lou
Yes that is in the works.
james
-
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225625)
Hi James,
“Here's something I'm really happy to see at Bryston -- a product that
not only represents quality and great performance, but a product that pushes the envelope on performance.
Since those Cubed upgrades brought the distortion and noise down, and now this level of performance out of a combo preamp-DAC, it really puts Bryston in a top position.
James, the team decided a ‘Reviewers Choice’ was warranted, which we give to products that represent Exceptional Value and/or State-of-the-Art performance. Probably both are valid here.”
https://www.soundstagesimplifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/174
Doug,
Soundstage
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Hi James, tried the headphone output today for the 1st time. Sounded wonderful through my OPPO PM-1’s UNTIL I altered the volume and the speakers came back on song. Not ideal!!!
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Hi James, tried the headphone output today for the 1st time. Sounded wonderful through my OPPO PM-1’s UNTIL I altered the volume and the speakers came back on song. Not ideal!!!
Hi Clive - yes thanks we are looking at that.
Email Adam as he may have a fix for that- atanner@bryston.com
james
-
Hi Clive - can you send me your email please.
james
jamestanner@bryston.com
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How is Roon Ready progressing with the BR-20? Any idea on when it will be certified?
-
Received my BR-20 a week ago (#64).
Exceeded expectations. Sound is AMAZING. Worth the wait. LOVE the double balanced ins and double balanced outs. I expect the press accolades to keep pouring in.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225717)
Arlo
-
Thanks Arlo - what speakers?
james
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Thanks Arlo - what speakers?
james
Sonus Faber Stradivari. Heard them once with over $100k driving them. Wow... I was blown away.
-
It's been stated but as a happy owner of the BDA-3 Dac -an integrated version of this would really tempt me, as it is the UK price and a power amp to match puts it out of bounds.....
-
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225861)
Conclusion:
After we have been able to play extensively with the Bryston BR-20 and listened to many hours of music with it, it is high time to make a judgment.
In terms of price, this BR-20 is definitely competitively positioned. The modular preamplifier is extremely complete and can be configured even more complete in the order process.
The BR-20 plays at a significantly higher level than our current configuration which consists of separate Bryston components and that is actually quite special.
We can only conclude that Bryston has launched a very nice preamplifier with this BR-20.
Maybe this is Bryston's best preamplifier ever. Brian Russell can be satisfied.
Dutch Link
https://hifi.nl/artikel/30137/Review-Bryston-BR-20-voorversterker.html
For those folks that want the full review in an English translation please email me
jamestanner@bryston.com
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Hi Folks
Some shots from my IPAD using APPLE MUSIC on my BR-20.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226130)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226131)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226132)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226133)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226134)
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Those pics look great! And I'm going to use this as an opportunity to again ask when w will be able to take pics of the Roon interface using the BR-20, i.e. can you say anything about when the BR-20 will be Roon certified? thank you.
-
Hi
We have submitted a BR-20 for ROON certification but no word yet.
james
-
Hello James,
It's been a while. Hope you and your team are well, and many congratulations on exciting progress and developments over at Bryston/Axiom.
I have a number of questions regarding the BR-20:
1. Has the price for BR-20 with optional HDMI board been announced yet?
2. What is the nominal output impedance of the preamp section in balanced mode?
3. Is the digital player built in the BR-20 better than my old BDP-1? I've updated BDP-1 with the latest firmware and happily using it via USB connection with the BDA-3.
4. Relating to BDP-1 & BDA-3 combo -vs- built in DAC/player within the BR-20, would additional power supplies on the separate units, theoretically, yield better sonic than the shared one with the preamp? Or the one in the BR-20 is beefy enough for everything?
5. Any of the two SE and the two BAL inputs can be programmed for HT bypass, correct? Would connecting a single-end cable from say, my SP3's front left and front right channels be converted internally within the BR-20 to be balanced signals? Well, the cable would be just 1 meter long, but I'm just curios. : )
My current preamp has 5 balanced inputs; I'm using 4 of them for: (1) phono stage, (2) BDA-3, (3) HT bypass with SP3's front left/rght, & (4) ModWright Oppo 95 stereo outs. I might consider using the BR-20 instead and sell the BDP-1 & BDA-3 combo. Two XLR inputs could be used with my phono preamp and Oppo balance outs; one SE input for SP3. Or maybe using Oppo's HDMI out with BR-20 optional board, and use another XLR connection with SP3.
Thanks in advance for the info and your kind advice, as always.
-
Hi Klao
1. Yes the prices are available for the optional boards.
2. Its about 25 ohms I believe but I can check with engineering. (less than 100 ohms)
3. The digital player in the BR-20 is the Pi4 so it is more advanced than the BDP-1.
4. The power supply in the BR20 is robust but there are limitations on the size of an attached hard-drive and the current it may draw. So we recommended Flash drives or NAS if your library is extensive.
5. I do not think there is a bypass feature but I will ask.
best
james
-
4. The power supply in the BR20 is robust but there are limitations on the size of an attached hard-drive and the current it may draw. So we recommended Flash
Only one 4TB portable HDD is now attached to my BPD-1, should be enough of music for me in a long while. : )
5. I do not think there is a bypass feature but I will ask.
According to Bryston's website on BR-20 page: "Programmable theater bypass feature"
-
Hi Folks,
Download the PDF document from the link below and also the .BIN file for loading the newest firmware for the BR-20
http://support.bryston.com/downloads/BR-20/firmware/
james
-
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226682)
Dear James,
Hope you are keeping well and safe.
I received our first unit of BR20 and absolutely amazed by this product. Unfortunately, it is for a customer!!
Many thanks and with best wishes………….Mustansir. UAE
-
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226685)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 – Distributor Feedback
July 2021
Hi James,
Our first BR-20 is on review in ‘Sound Rebels’. Review with photos soon. I will send you some translated sentences.
We are blown away by BR-20 sound.
What a punch, speed and details. Incredible!!
Next reviews are waiting in line (stereolife, highfidelity).
Best regards,
Robert Fijałkowski
MJ AUDIO LAB
Poland
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Placing order today is there a delay in black over silver?
Thanks.
Can't post pic but my Roon home has
1045 artists and 3909 albums for 55418 tracks
Jerry
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Placing order today is there a delay in black over silver?
Thanks.
Can't post pic but my Roon home has
1045 artists and 3909 albums for 55418 tracks
Jerry
Hi Jerry
Yes sorry it will be a while - we are backordered over 100 units and we have been locked down for 3 weeks. Should be up and running again on the 21st.
james
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No problem James worth the wait, exactly what I am looking for.
Does color affect delay making it longer one over other?
Thanks
-
No problem James worth the wait, exactly what I was looking for.
Does color affect delay making it longer one over other?
Thanks
No its about the same on colour and size.
james
-
Will Bryston continue to support DSD specifically .dsf with the BR-20?
Its all about how the music is recorded but some of my favorite albums do still sound better...
Its been answered in a review on Soundstage:
The BR-20’s streaming module differs from the one used in Bryston’s BDA-3.14 streaming DAC-preamp ($4195) in a couple of important respects. First, the BR-20’s Raspberry Pi 4 SBC is faster than the Pi 3 board used in the BDA-3.14, so large libraries load more quickly. Second, it uses a USB interface to send data to the internal DAC; the BDA-3.14 uses I2S (Inter-IC Sound). The internal USB interface allows the BR-20 to play DSD files stored on a connected drive in native format; the BDA-3.14 converts DSD data to 24/192 PCM before passing them on to its internal DAC. At the time I was writing this review, the BR-20 had not yet received Roon Ready certification. When it does, you will also be able to stream DSD to the BR-20 via Roon, something you cannot do with the BDA-3.14.
Still a big part of my budget so would like to confirm before committing.
-
Hi
Yes we will continue to support DSD
james
-
Order already placed
Looking forward to arrival now to sell the BDA-3...ouch it's hard to part with.
Thanks
-
For those folks that speak Polish
https://soundrebels.com/bryston-br-20-2/
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226982)
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Is the HDMI module self-installable or does it require dealer installation.
-
We assume our distributors or dealers would do it as they would have the test gear to make sure all is OK.
That being said I will ask service what they think.
james
-
From service:
We think it would be best if we left it as a factory and/or dealer installation so the upgrade can be tested and warranty can be continued/added.
-
Hi James,
You mentioned that production on the BR-20 was going to start up again around July 21st.
Are they in production yet?
Bruce
-
Another question your photo of Yello on your iPad streaming from apple music was that via airplay or does the BR-20 allow for apple music streaming directly? If it is airplay what bit rate/ sample rate? Since Apple are providing lossless been much more interested in listening to Service on my stereo instead of just phone.
Thanks
-
Hi James,
You mentioned that production on the BR-20 was going to start up again around July 21st.
Are they in production yet?
Bruce
Hi Bruce - yes we are back up but still difficult getting all the parts we need - still have over 100 backordered.
james
-
Another question your photo of Yello on your iPad streaming from apple music was that via airplay or does the BR-20 allow for apple music streaming directly? If it is airplay what bit rate/ sample rate? Since Apple are providing lossless been much more interested in listening to Service on my stereo instead of just phone.
Thanks
Hi
The Airplay is maximum 48/24. If you hookup the Ipad using the USB out of the IP to a USB in on your DAC you can get 192/24 -(see my newsletter)
james
-
Hi Bruce - yes we are back up but still difficult getting all the parts we need - still have over 100 backordered.
james
I hope soon since I recently added myself to the backorder list a few days ago.
Bruce
-
Now just having a look at pictures and notice that we have 11 digital inputs but only 10 button's.
Are they user configurable? Pretty sure that was case as mentioned previously.
Is the Type B USB on the back a separate input (Dac Streamer or Computer)?
With Apple Music Lossless going to want to access. Though Airplay at 24/48 should be enough...if not.
Thanks
-
HI James,
Was offered the opportunity to test drive BR-20 nr 15 today :) of course accepted that gladly. We cant go anywhere now after all, so never a better time for tinkering Bryston goodies.
please let me ask this
- on the double outputs, which I use indeed, 1 for the BHA1 and one for my 10Bsub: how can I play music over the BHA1, and mute output to the 10Bsub?
with my bp26, I simply muted it, and the output went solely to the BHA, but this now seems to no longer be possible?
I could of course manually turn off the 10-bsub, but that seems regression with a modern device like the BR20.
- I' ve got issues getting MPD to work consistently, because it keeps being deselected:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227502)
I have created 2 shares on. my NAS, and only 1 is being displayed in the file browser,. when clicking update, it highlights blue, but nothing seems to happen? when clicking the + in the red lines (proving the shares are there...) nothing happens either, not even the highlighting of the update button.
hope you can have a look, thanks!
Marius
-
Hi Marius
Please email Adam and he will help.
atanner@bryston.com
james
-
thanks James,
email Adam on the shares? or on the outputs?
they're 2 rather different issues, and Id not want to waste your valuable time
seems a separate mute isnt available in the hardware? maybe this could be done in the software: select an output source A/B/A+B ?
I ask this specifically, because the manual at page 6 mentions under 3.Mute:
"Mute does not affect the headphone or record outputs". I guess I am looking for these record outputs (to connect to the B-HA 1), but this is the only spot they are mentioned.
thanks Marius
-
Adam on the networking but you can mention the other issues if you want and he can find out from engineering.
james
PS - what preamp are you comparing the BR-20 too?
-
the bp-26 unit
-
The lack of a “record out” or tape loop is the main reason I’d never buy a BR20 and replace my BP26. Almost all manufacturers have dropped these features.
-
A fixed output is available on the BP17 if you only want a preamp without digital processing.
-
Hi James,
I am going to send you a full report but what I can certainly say upfront about the new BR-20 is there is
- much lower noise
- much higher resolution, even when compared to the BDP and BDA3 as a source
- significantly wider Soundstage
- speakers "disappear" more
I think the depth of the Soundstage is still evolving. Out of the box it had little depth as well as limited bottom end. Those started to change last night.
Thanks again for helping me get this. It's a game changer.
Best,
Marc
-
Hi Bruce - yes we are back up but still difficult getting all the parts we need - still have over 100 backordered.
james
Good problem to have. :D
-
Hi Folks,
The full review in Hi-Fi News and Record Review:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227587)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227588)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227589)
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The lack of a “record out” or tape loop is the main reason I’d never buy a BR20 and replace my BP26. Almost all manufacturers have dropped these features.
yes, it really is 'must have' feature lost. Personally I wouldn't even qualify this as a pro, or power feature. And since we're talking Flagship here, it honestly is beyond my grasp as to the why.
btw, when I removed the huge weight of my bp26/Ps,/Bda1/Bdp1 to replace it with the 'lightweight' BR20, I wondered how this could be.... where are my 'massive' transformers.. I mean how can this be ;-)
-
yes, it really is 'must have' feature lost. Personally I wouldn't even qualify this as a pro, or power feature. And since we're talking Flagship here, it honestly is beyond my grasp as to the why.
btw, when I removed the huge weight of my bp26/Ps,/Bda1/Bdp1 to replace it with the 'lightweight' BR20, I wondered how this could be.... where are my 'massive' transformers.. I mean how can this be ;-)
I guess the BR-20 is not for you Marius :)
james
-
Well, I would like it to be, and am truly tempted. It's a beautiful machine.
I love the connectivity, and the way it takes out a lot of cables....and of course room in the cabinet! Mine didn't have the hdmi installed, but that would even be better, able to reroute/de-embed the audio from the Blurays the Bryston way is something I look forward to enormously.
I just feel it should mature somewhat on the software side of things, (the source section is a true myriad for me, its a mix between custom mapping and presence of sources? Still havent found my way there, but thats probably me. Having a fixed source selector related to the actual input on the back has my preference still)
Also, I would hope to find custom settings for the leds, because right out of the box, it has a presence that distracts too much in Movie mode. Believe we should be able to set the leds around the volume knob, but again, havent had the opportunity to find my way in the menu, so they're still there whiter color than the other greenish ones.
Of course, this is all coming from a very happy and loyal Bryston customer, and because of that, used only to the best, which isn't easy to top. But ready to move on, and widen the horizon for new Peterborough built devices I am indeed.
Cheers, Marius
-
True that,software
Ex: why the fuck does the bdp-2 does nothing it just freezes up
Only when you unplug and replug and restart does it go back to NORMAL.
Jeezuz H,my Neanderthal computer doesn’t have that problem EVER.
Personally SEPARATES are the way to go.
WHY let’s see three components in there if one fucks up UR F..........
Separates you can change the offending piece.
-
Well, I would like it to be, and am truly tempted. It's a beautiful machine.
I love the connectivity, and the way it takes out a lot of cables....and of course room in the cabinet! Mine didn't have the hdmi installed, but that would even be better, able to reroute/de-embed the audio from the Blurays the Bryston way is something I look forward to enormously.
I just feel it should mature somewhat on the software side of things, (the source section is a true myriad for me, its a mix between custom mapping and presence of sources? Still havent found my way there, but thats probably me. Having a fixed source selector related to the actual input on the back has my preference still)
Also, I would hope to find custom settings for the leds, because right out of the box, it has a presence that distracts too much in Movie mode. Believe we should be able to set the leds around the volume knob, but again, havent had the opportunity to find my way in the menu, so they're still there whiter color than the other greenish ones.
Of course, this is all coming from a very happy and loyal Bryston customer, and because of that, used only to the best, which isn't easy to top. But ready to move on, and widen the horizon for new Peterborough built devices I am indeed.
Cheers, Marius
Hi Marius
Yes you can adjust the colour (Blue or Green) of the LEDS (except the display and the volume) and you can adjust the intensity of the LEDS and Display as well in the menu.
best
james
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the bp-26 unit
Hi Marius
I am very interested in your thoughts about the sound differences between the BP26 and the BR-20?
james
-
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228042)
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Hi James. Will the BR-20 have the capability of the BP-17/BP-17 Cubed in terms of a Home Theater Bypass via remote? Thank you.
Lou
Hi Folks - just to let everyone know the BR-20 does NOT have the bypass feature yet.
We assume we can offer it going forward with a software change where we allow one of the inputs to be set to 0dB and act as a pass-through.
So please do not purchase a BR-20 if by-pass is critical to your setup - I do not know when we will be able to make the software change.
best
james
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Ouch on Home Theater bypass and just sold my BDA-3 too.
Would have just purchased a BP-17 cubed had I known.
Next I am told by James Tanner both Roon and Home Theater Bypass would work by November 2021 via email and verbal to stereo store
Broken promises no stuck with boat anchor
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Ouch on Home Theater bypass and just sold my BDA-3 too.
Would have just purchased a BP-17 cubed had I known.
HI,
We are backordered on everything so you can probably change your order.
james
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Hi James. Thank you for the update on the Bypass. Take care.
Lou
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Thanks James
Small house one listening room.
So a deal breaker, now that BDA-3 is gone...leaves me without preamp and DAC. Next thing in that price range won't fit the rack.
Best of luck with sales.
Jerry
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Thanks James
Small house one listening room.
So a deal breaker, now that BDA-3 is gone...leaves me without preamp and DAC. Next thing in that price range won't fit the rack.
Best of luck with sales.
Jerry
OK sorry it did not work out.
james
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Hi Marius
I am very interested in your thoughts about the sound differences between the BP26 and the BR-20?
james
So do I, Marius. :)
-
We have a review coming from a major magazine that is doing the comparison.
james
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Hi Folks,
BR-20 review from China.
Hopefully some of our Bryston customers can translate a few sentences for me. I have a PDF if anyone wants - email me jamestanner@bryston.com
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228314)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228315)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228316)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228317)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228318)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228319)
Hi James,
The translate for the title of this review is:
1.Celebrate for new generation Bryston flagship Preamp!
2. Definitely better look and definitely Hiend performance.
This review is very expensive. Very good describe for BR20.
The editor think B20 has super detailed sound performance and very hiend sound quality.
He never heard this kind of sound in this kind of price range.
The conclusion said
I can’t believe how good this preamp is.
Even forget how wide sound stage and frequency performance BR20 is.
Even ignore how much function and how convenience BR20 has.
I will still said BR20 is a HiEnd preamp.
Buy it now!
James it also says:
I don’t know if the COVID situation allowed Bryston time to make the look of their products very good but this BR-20 looks 'HiEnd'.
-
HI Folks,
We have a BETA version of software that adds the Home Theater ByPass feature to the BR-20.
If anyone wants to test it please email me - jamestanner@bryston.com
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228647)
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Hi Folks, one of the design features of the BR-20 is the 'modular' construction. This allows the customer to change circuit boards as the technology changes over time.
Here is a picture of the internal circuits boards in our new BR-20.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228791)
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Another great review from Hi-Fi news...
https://www.hifinews.com/content/bryston-br-20-networkdac-preamp (https://www.hifinews.com/content/bryston-br-20-networkdac-preamp)
"Hi-Fi News Verdict
DAC, network streamer and preamplifier combined, Bryston's BR-20 certainly gives you a lot for its ticket price. In an ideal world there'd be a bit more refinement to both its physical appearance and control platform, but it's an astonishing performer able to dig deep into the detail and nuance of tracks across all genres and sampling rates. Lace up to a potent balanced power amp and enjoy the show! "
-
very unhappy customer
:evil:
-
Wow thanks for this detailed report BOKKO = It just about covers every option available.
And thanks for your comments on Manic Moose interface - I use it myself all the time. :thumb:
james
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Hi James,
What color options are there for the BR20 LEDs and display.
It looks like I’m seeing white with the silver model and blue with the black model in pictures but not sure.
-
Hi James,
What color options are there for the BR20 LEDs and display.
It looks like I’m seeing white with the silver model and blue with the black model in pictures but not sure.
Hi
The display and the volume LED's are always WHITE.
The other LED's can be Blue or Green - which is done in the internal menu.
james
-
Contacted SVS they have an upgraded amp that will allow me to run dual balanced inputs as it was purchased in 2008 that damn impressive.
Not free but hey
-
Good Day:
1: Researching getting my SVS PB-12plus sub reconnected using the spare set of XLR outputs on BR-20.
Looks like I would need something like this?
https://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pc-2xr/
Don't imagine it would be as easy as connecting XLR to RCA cables as it involves a higher output?
There is a Canadian distributor but thought I would check here first see if a Canadian company makes something like it.
2. While on topic of XLR to RCA is it acceptable to do this for connecting an old CD players analog unbalanced connections to the Balanced XLR inputs on back of BR-20 directly or would I need another convertor again?
3. Buy an Axiom EP500 and run a single XLR too it or would only one channel connected cause a loading problem for BR-20
Thanks
Hi
I run 2 Bryston T-12 Subs with my BR20 and no issues.
Remember once you 'unbalance' the signal on the Br20 you do not maintain the performance advantage of the Fully Balanced design.
james
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:icon_twisted:
-
Whooa!!
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649773592-bryston-br-20/ (https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649773592-bryston-br-20/)
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Hi James,
I ordered my BR-20 July 19th and still have not received it from my dealer.
When can I expect to receive it?
Bruce
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Hi James,
I ordered my BR-20 July 19th and still have not received it from my dealer.
When can I expect to receive it?
Bruce
Hi Bruce
We should be caught up on any orders already in house by the middle of October.
Sorry for the delay but a lot of our parts are custom so it has been difficult getting some parts given the times.
james
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Thanks James
Looking forward to receiving it.
Bruce
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229776)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 Review - Poland
September, 2021
HI Folks,
Review in Stereo Life Magazine in Poland on our BR-20
“Throughout the test, I was amazed at how much detail the BR-20 is able to extract from these deepest layers of my favorite recordings.
The effect is twofold - firstly, we gain the ability to listen to the smallest details without losing fluidity and musicality, and secondly, the sound, which is so rich in all sorts of nuances, we perceive as more authentic, tangible. There is a growing sense of participation in the event that takes place here and now, right in front of us. The BR-20 can be incredibly delicate and meticulous, but when the music demands it, it easily takes all of that experience to the next level, retaining the same micro-level care, but adding to it the freedom to manipulate pulses on a macro scale.
To put it another way, in many devices we use a potentiometer not to increase the volume level, because we need it and we want to add it sharply to the furnace, but so that the sound takes the right shapes - so that we can accurately hear all the details that were recorded during the recording. Often, without turning the knob to the right, this is impossible, because at low volume levels these nuances are masked, the music does not have adequate clout, and of all its richness only a miserable plumping remains.
Bryston turns this pattern upside down, because during relatively quiet listening we get practically everything we should. The potentiometer in the BR-20 actually works like a sound scaling instrument that remains just as rich, vibrant and curious. If we want to listen louder, it will only be our choice, and not an obligation resulting from the fact that at a lower level of control, the sound is flat, fine and devoid of depth.
The BR-20 is further proof that devices of this type - no matter whether we call them streamers with good volume control or preamplifiers with a converter and network functions - work even in hi-end, heavily pampered stereo systems, sometimes even making buying a separate preamplifier meaningless.”
-
I’m still having a small problem when coming out of stand-by on my BR-20.
The streamer won’t lock-on. The red light flashes and won’t stop. If I go into settings I get a message with a little picture telling me to recycle power by unplugging and then replacing. This happens every 5-6 days.
Is anybody else experiencing this?
-
Clive, I have had that issue, though not as regularly as you describe. I've also had the issue someone described earlier with the BR-20 not keeping "MPD" selected, so I have to go in and re-select it in order to stream music. Neither problem is affecting me today, so I hesitate to say anything for fear of jinxing it! I can't wait for Roon certification. The sound and design of this unit is great, but I find Manic Moose (both its dashboard and the media player) to be clunky and have slow responses. - Ed
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yeah, my BR-20 is gathering dust until it is certified by Roon. that is my fault for buying it before that happened. I guess the BR-20 is not really a streamer in that it doesn't have wifi built in, and as far as I know it doesn't have chromecast or airplay (please correct me if I am wrong). Bryston does not market it as a streamer but as a preamp/dac, which is fair and accurate. anyway, I'll be very excited if/when it gets Roon certified.
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Hello James,
I'm impatiently waiting for my BR-20, looking forward to getting it! I have a question regarding outputs. I am using SVS subs that require an RCA output and the BHA-1 that require an XLR output. How can I plug both using the single XLR output that is available? A dual XLR to XLR and RCA splitter? Maybe if the BR-20's headphone amplifier is comparable in quality to the BHA-1, I won't need the latter anymore...
Thanks,
Alain
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HI Alain
The outputs are in parallel so they can be mixed and matched but you have to use them in pairs.
I would say wit till you hear the headphone section and decide - I think you will find it exceptional.
james
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230574)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 – Stellar Award!
October, 2021
REVIEW COMING SOON ON THE EVERYTHING AUDIO WEBSITE
"In extensive listening to the Bryston BR-20, its performance is no surprise. It adheres to Bryston’s tried-and-true approach to hi-fi products — clean, super accurate and, I might add, highly flexible.
Combining a high-performance preamp, DAC and Hi-Res streamer with optional HDMI and phono preamp, the BR-20 is the complete, high-end playback solution in terms of analog and digital control. All you need is an amp (consider the Bryston 14B) and speakers that match the BR-20’s transparent persona, and you will hear the full resolution and detail from the best of digital and analog recordings. Lifelike dynamic range, extremely low noise and precise imaging.
Oh yeah, it looks like a million bucks in silver. Of course, the Bryston BR-20 gets our Everything Audio Stellar Sound Award.
If you want the one-stop high-end preamp/DAC/streamer/solution, it has to be on your contender list."
John Gatski
Publisher/Editor
Everything Audio Network
P.S. With Bryston having lineage in pro, these are the products to have if you want to realism in Hi-Res. I am so spoiled by the BR-20, I can no longer listen to pre's and amp's that products idle hiss in speakers.
If it ain't quiet, I don’t want it.
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Hi James,
I excited when I heard BR-20 is coming out so I placed my order immediately it was last December-2020 and hoping that I will get it by March-2020. But upto there still no definite date when I get my order. I understand this COVID-19 affects the delay of the deliveries but I’ve been waiting for almost a year.
If you need info regarding my order kindly send me a pm and I will give you all the details you need.
I hope you can help me.
Thanks,
Castor
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Hi James,
I excited when I heard BR-20 is coming out so I placed my order immediately it was last December-2020 and hoping that I will get it by March-2020. But upto there still no definite date when I get my order. I understand this COVID-19 affects the delay of the deliveries but I’ve been waiting for almost a year.
If you need info regarding my order kindly send me a pm and I will give you all the details you need.
I hope you can help me.
Thanks,
Castor
Hi Castor
Yes please email me at jamestanner@bryston.com
james
-
https://www.stereolifemagazine.com/reviews/item/1510-bryston-br-20
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Hi James,
According to one of the technician I know it’s not ideal to use XLR to RCA cable and I’m planning to use one of the XLR output for my sub woofer. Will there be an issue if I use the said cable?
Thanks,
Castor
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Hi James,
According to one of the technician I know it’s not ideal to use XLR to RCA cable and I’m planning to use one of the XLR output for my sub woofer. Will there be an issue if I use the said cable?
Thanks,
Castor
The only issue will be that the Sub signal will not be balanced but single ended. You may notice a reduction in output level but you can usually account for that with the Gain control on the Sub or the processor.
james
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Hello
I just got my BR-20 and I noticed that if my source is from the laptop, when I increase or decrease the volume using the remote it seems that it’s not working. The display in BR-20 didn’t change at all. And sometimes even from the unit itself the display didn’t change.
Thanks for your reply…
-
Hello
I just got my BR-20 and I noticed that if my source is from the laptop, when I increase or decrease the volume using the remote it seems that it’s not working. The display in BR-20 didn’t change at all. And sometimes even from the unit itself the display didn’t change.
Thanks for your reply…
Hi
Please email - atanner@bryston.com
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For a Preamp of this quality a Moving Coil cartridge provision would be better appriclated then MM. There might not be room for such an addition, but it is a feature one would expect. Maybe another preamp?
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For a Preamp of this quality a Moving Coil cartridge provision would be better appriclated then MM. There might not be room for such an addition, but it is a feature one would expect. Maybe another preamp?
BP26MC with outboard power supply.
You can either have onboard power supply or step-up transformers, not both in one chassis. Bryston does not use active gain stages for MC inputs. I use the TF-2 with my preamp and it sounds excellent.
-
Dear James,
please check third Polish review of BR-20, this time in High Fidelity web magazine - very famous and appreciated by audiophiles.
http://highfidelity.pl/@main-4107&lang=
Short summary:
"BRYSTON BR-20 IS AN EXCELLENT, truly exceptionally successful line preamplifier. Its sound is deep timbre, perfectly balanced, velvety natural, fantastically resolving. I am convinced that many fans of tube technology would be wrong in their comparisons and would point to the BR-20 as a very good tube product. And at the same time, it is a device faithful to the letter of the recording.
And this is how I treat this device - as a great line preamplifier, with which we get a free (as I see it) file player, DAC and an excellent - I must add - a headphone amplifier.
If this is what the combination of studio and audiophile experience should look like, then I'm for, and I'm really excited about it :) "
Best regards
Robert Fijałkowski
MJ AUDIO LAB
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Hi Folks,
Coming soon - review on the BR-20 from Secrets Of Home Theater
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232444)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232472)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Happy Customers !!!
1. I bought a pair of Model T Passive speakers to replace my 22-year-old B&W Matrix 803 S2 six months ago. The 803 S2 had been put away in my bedroom ever since then and I didn't do an A/B test for the both pairs of speakers at the time. I used to try to find many speakers to replace the 803 in the past 20 years, but I failed all the time. Until I heard a pair of Model T, I decided to give it a try. I grew to like the Model T with every day's listening, the sound quality has really been to my liking. But, there is always a sound in my head: How much better can it be than the good old 803 S2?
Today I hooked up the 803 again and finally did the A/B test and I was so surprised that the two speakers are totally different world! The model T is much much better in every way! I knew the Model T is good(or it would not be with me for 6 months) but now I know how good it really is! Looks like it's time to say goodbye to my good old B&W Matrix 803.
2. OMG the streamer player in this BR-20 is very addictive!!!…I normally am playing vinyl at this point on a Friday night with my ProJect Signature 10 with my Focal Sopra2’s but my fat ass is glued to the chair with the BR-20 & the beloved Bryston Mini-T’s upstairs in the living room (nuthin mini about them by the way)…TGIF…Happy Bryston Listening Everyone !!!
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232946)
MEMO: To All Concerned
SUBJECT: BR-20 Best Product Award
Dear James
I'm very happy I can inform you that Bryston BR-20 Preamp/DAC/Streamer won
High Fidelity 2021 BEST PRODUCT !!
Please find attached prize logo.
Official announcement will take place on 1st of December.
Congratulations!
Kindest regards
Robert Fijałkowski
MJ AUDIO LAB
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Not sure of the official status of Roon certification, but I can report I'm currently controlling my BR-20 via Roon. In Manic Moose, choose "Roon Bridge" as the playback method (which i think is a relatively new feature). In Roon, go to Settings>Audio and enable the BR-20 (which shows initially as BDA3), and voila! Roon controlling the BR-20. it seems that pause and skip on the remote are disabled when being controlled by Roon, but volume works fine. This was a breakthrough to me, and I hope it is useful for you.
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Hi,
Not using Roon (yet) but would the BR 20 work by streaming via Bubble UPnP / MinimServer?
Thanks,
Holger
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Hi James,
Congratulations on the award for the BR-20.
Now that Roon seems to be working there is just one more feature that is missing that is preventing me upgrading from my BP-173 / BDA-3.14 combo to a BR-20 and that is HT Bypass support.
As volume of the BR-20 is digitally controlled is this something you will be adding in a future firmware update? Just curious as to if/when that feature would be added?
I’m sure I’m not the only one for who HT Bypass is a critical feature in a combined stereo / surround setup.
Eagerly awaiting your reply,
Rob
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Hi James
Congratulations Team Bryston on winning the award for BR-20, well done!!!!! :thumb:
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Hi James,
Congratulations on the award for the BR-20.
Now that Roon seems to be working there is just one more feature that is missing that is preventing me upgrading from my BP-173 / BDA-3.14 combo to a BR-20 and that is HT Bypass support.
As volume of the BR-20 is digitally controlled is this something you will be adding in a future firmware update? Just curious as to if/when that feature would be added?
I’m sure I’m not the only one for who HT Bypass is a critical feature in a combined stereo / surround setup.
Eagerly awaiting your reply,
Rob
Hi Rob
We have prototype software with passthrough but not happy with the way it works yet - will be some time I think.
james
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Ok James,
I’ll keep squirrelling away funds for a BR-20. Thanks for the info.
Rob
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Hello, James.
3 questions:
1. Is the HDMI module able to receive music (dsd, etc) from DACs with I2S ports?
2. Does the HDMI module pass-through Dolby Vision and/or Dolby Atmos?
3. When will we be able to download the manual?
Thank you in advance.
-
You can get the manual here:
http://support.bryston.com/downloads/BR-20/Manual/
HDMI board (HSR-41T) supports Dolby vision pass through but you would need to set audio outputs on your hdmi devices to PCM stereo in order to get audio to pass through the BR-20. DSD support is listed, but I2s is not. HDMI board spec sheet is via link below. According to Bryston eARC is not supported in current firmware but will be supported with a future firmware update.
https://0395410.netsolhost.com/mds/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/HSR-T-Series-Rev-1c.pdf
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Hi Folks
Yes the BR-20 is really designed for the stereo listener so I would not recommend it for an interface for a power surround listened.
james
-
You can get the manual here:
http://support.bryston.com/downloads/BR-20/Manual/
HDMI board (HSR-41T) supports Dolby vision pass through but you would need to set audio outputs on your hdmi devices to PCM stereo in order to get audio to pass through the BR-20. DSD support is listed, but I2s is not. HDMI board spec sheet is via link below. According to Bryston eARC is not supported in current firmware but will be supported with a future firmware update.
https://0395410.netsolhost.com/mds/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/HSR-T-Series-Rev-1c.pdf
Thank you very much, R.Strefford
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Hi, I ordered a BR20 now without HDMI board. Can someone tell me how the backside of the device will look like without the HDMI board? Just open slots or any kind of cover?
Thanks,
Holger
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Hi, I ordered a BR20 now without HDMI board. Can someone tell me how the backside of the device will look like without the HDMI board? Just open slots or any kind of cover?
Thanks,
Holger
The openings are covered with an internal metal plate.
james
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I know one person that has two Bryston amps, 4B series I think it was. Unbelievable sound. I'm sure anything they manufacture is of the same extreme quality. I unfortunately am not in this $$ category, but given the opportunity, will most assuredly enjoy the sound and awe at the workmanship.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=233298)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 Customer Response
December 2021
Dear James,
I'm reaching out to you to commend you and your team for producing a wonderful product ie. The Bryston BR-20 preamplifier.
I've finally received my unit after a long waiting time of 10 months, but it was worthwhile. My unit comes with the HDMI add-on.
I wish to share my opinions on the BR-20 and compare it with BP-26 and BP-173.
Upon power-up, I hear the BR-20 has greater clarity, depth, width and height in sound stage. The mid-to-high is smooth and the bass makes a big impression for going deeper with much body - not tight and lean per se.
All these observations were noted in the first 2 hours of playtime. I kept wondering if the unit was given some run-in time in the factory. Finally, the relatively lightweight (5.5kg) simply out-punched its predecessors that weighed more.
There are many pre amps in the market that are massive in size and weight but the BR-20 proves that it's impeccable engineering and design that matter most for optimal sound quality.
Stay safe and all the best. Thank you.
Best regards,
Clarence,
Singapore
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James, I received my BR-20 yesterday--very exiting! I love it. My question has to do with upsampling. At a very basic level I understand its advantages. I do not understand its disadvantages. Do I read the manual correctly that upsampling is not possible via USB input? I assume this was by choice given many DACs do this. My specific question is would you recommend upsamping with upstream software (Roon or HQ Player etc) or leave the incoming USB sampling rate alone? Thanks!
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James, I received my BR-20 yesterday--very exiting! I love it. My question has to do with upsampling. At a very basic level I understand its advantages. I do not understand its disadvantages. Do I read the manual correctly that upsampling is not possible via USB input? I assume this was by choice given many DACs do this. My specific question is would you recommend upsamping with upstream software (Roon or HQ Player etc) or leave the incoming USB sampling rate alone? Thanks!
Correct - no up-sampling on USB.
I have always felt that you should play the file the way it was recorded - so up-sampling is not something I use personally.
james
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=233582)
The Absolute Sound’s 2021 PRODUCT OF THE YEAR AWARDS 2021
Welcome to The Absolute Sound’s 2021 Product of the Year Awards, the most exclusive and prestigious of our honors. Here we celebrate the very best components we’ve heard in the previous year. In many categories we’ve chosen more than one winner: one that represents the greatest value for the dollar and another that represents the best we’ve reviewed regardless of price. We’ve also selected Budget Components of the Year to recognize the gear we believe offers the biggest bang for the buck, as well as a Technology Breakthrough of the Year.
Finally, our Overall Product of the Year honors the products that stand above all others as the most impressive achievements of the past 12 months.
* Bryston BR-20 Preamplifier with Streaming DAC:
A Preamplifier for Our Times
* James Tanner, Bryston CEO, on the BR-20
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James,
Just wanted to let you know that JJ’s BR-20 review has just gone live on our site:
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/preamplifier/bryston-br-20-stereo-preamplifier-review/
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I was listening to music last night using Roon through my BR-20. The lock light was flashing red. What does this mean? I'd used the BR-20 with Roon several times before and the lock light was green. The BR-20 is connected to my router via ethernet.
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I can't answer directly, but since I haven't seen a reply, check post #306 in this thread and see what they found. They seem to have had a similar issue and perhaps resolved it. Also there is a Bryston BR-20 thread in Roon Community. See if you can get an answer there. I use Roon solely and connect USB from laptop to BR-20 and haven't had a issue. Good luck. Ryan
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Thanks, the issue described in post #306 is exactly what was happening to me. I unplugged the unit, and upon plugging back in the problem is resolved. I hope it doesn't happen every 6 days like the other poster.
I also have to enable the BR-20 in Roon every time I use the BR-20, which is a hassle. I hope Roon Ready happens soon.
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I posted 306. I am still having the same issue with red light flashing very 6-7 days showing the streamer is not locked on. Not difficult doing a hard reset but that’s not really the point.
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Clive,
My BR-20 still streams from Roon when the red light is on. Does your unit continue to work when the red light is flashing?
-
Good question, next time it goes n the blink, I will leave it.
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Is it possible to connect the BR-20 to two 7b3's so that when I turn on the BR-20 it signals both 7b3's to power up?
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Is it possible to connect the BR-20 to two 7b3's so that when I turn on the BR-20 it signals both 7b3's to power up?
Yes see p.6 of user manual.
Connect Trigger Out to one 7B.
Then trigger out from 7B to the other 7B.
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Thank you! I didn't understand that I could have one 7b3 power up the other. Awesome!
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I asked a related question in the Bryston MM forum so I apologize for redundancy.
All external variables aside, what digital input on the BR-20 offers the best SQ? I am familiar with how external constraints could shift the answer, but within the design of the BR-20 itself what is the best/least distortion? What "horse" does one back based solely on how the BR-20 is designed? Surely Bryston measured each input to achieve an optimal overall design given each inputs cost/potential to reach a certain performance.
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I was listening to music last night using Roon through my BR-20. The lock light was flashing red. What does this mean? I'd used the BR-20 with Roon several times before and the lock light was green. The BR-20 is connected to my router via ethernet.
The flashing red light represents the streamer/digital player starting up and takes about a minute.
Chris
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I asked a related question in the Bryston MM forum so I apologize for redundancy.
All external variables aside, what digital input on the BR-20 offers the best SQ? I am familiar with how external constraints could shift the answer, but within the design of the BR-20 itself what is the best/least distortion? What "horse" does one back based solely on how the BR-20 is designed? Surely Bryston measured each input to achieve an optimal overall design given each inputs cost/potential to reach a certain performance.
using the built in digital playe , USB or SPDIF (digital coax/digital AESEBU) each have the lowest jitter otherwise the digital interfaces perform roughly the same. HDMI has the highest jitter, but is the only interface that will accept DSD from an SACD player or HDMI signal for those that want/need HDMI.
Chris
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Good morning,
I would like to switch off the display on my BR20. Ideally when changing channel or volume the display would briefly switch on, show the changes, then turn dark again. So far it seems only possible to dim the brightness. Is it planned to have an update?
Thanks,
Holger
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Good morning,
I would like to switch off the display on my BR20. Ideally when changing channel or volume the display would briefly switch on, show the changes, then turn dark again. So far it seems only possible to dim the brightness. Is it planned to have an update?
Thanks,
Holger
Hi Holger
Nothing planned immediately but something to look at going forward.
james
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The flashing red light represents the streamer/digital player starting up and takes about a minute.
Chris
Chris, I'm curious what it means if the flashing continues indefinitely. Several folks on here have experienced it, using Roon and Manic Moose. Music is playing, but the lock LED continues to flash red.
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Hi Folks,
Tyr rebooting or re-plugging the power.
james
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I need to unplug and then re plug my BR20 every 7-8 days for it to lock. I don’t think asking customers who have spent thousands of Dollars, Pounds, Euro’s and Shekels to do this to stop the lock led from flashing is a good idea. Please may we have a permanent fix.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=234828)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=234883)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=234894)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 – Product of The Year 2021
Hi James
“I just love it when you purchase an amazing piece from an amazing company & the reviews you read are exactly what you are hearing in your listening room…
Quote:
“A hub of the highest order …
reflects a ‘just the facts, ma’am’ musical neutrality.”
January 2022 issue of ‘The Absolute Sound’ was in the mailbox today.
Excellent review from Neil Gader with a James Tanner interview & winner of a
2021 Product Of The Year – Bryston BR-20
Congrats to everyone at Bryston & take a much deserved bow !
Happy Bryston Listening Everyone”
Jeff W.
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James or Chris , A question in reference to the headphone section of the BR-20. In the press release it notes " We even updated the internal headphone amplifier to have more power and lower output impedance to effortlessly power even difficult loads.". I have the BHA-1 . Does the BR-20 have the same BHA-1 specifications and is there any XLR's like the BHA-1 for those difficult loads and gain selections etc..
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James or Chris , A question in reference to the headphone section of the BR-20. In the press release it notes " We even updated the internal headphone amplifier to have more power and lower output impedance to effortlessly power even difficult loads.". I have the BHA-1 . Does the BR-20 have the same BHA-1 specifications and is there any XLR's like the BHA-1 for those difficult loads and gain selections etc..
Hi Mav
No the BHA-1 is still the top Headphone unit we make for very difficult phones.
james
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Hi Mav
No the BHA-1 is still the top Headphone unit we make for very difficult phones.
james
Thank you James.,
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From what I have read from James, the Home Theatre Bypass is not operational yet on the BR20 and maybe sometime, although on the cards.
Are there any other workarounds that would give me similar functionality or is the easiest answer to wait until it is confirmed? I use my Hifi along with the family TV and Processor (Emotiva RMC-1) so was looking for a Balanced bypass that could be operated by the remote control of my Logitech Harmony.
I cannot see at the moment any reason to have the HDMI board if I purchase a BR20, can it be fitted later if I find a reason to need it?
Many Thanks
Stuart
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From what I have read from James, the Home Theatre Bypass is not operational yet on the BR20 and maybe sometime, although on the cards.
Are there any other workarounds that would give me similar functionality or is the easiest answer to wait until it is confirmed? I use my Hifi along with the family TV and Processor (Emotiva RMC-1) so was looking for a Balanced bypass that could be operated by the remote control of my Logitech Harmony.
I cannot see at the moment any reason to have the HDMI board if I purchase a BR20, can it be fitted later if I find a reason to need it?
Many Thanks
Stuart
Hi Stuart,
Yes the HDMI can be added later.
james
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:icon_twisted:
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:icon_twisted:
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Hi Folks,
There is a BETA version of the software that allows one of the Analog inputs to act as a pass-through that we are testing now.
james
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235012)
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston BR-20 – A Reference Product!
January 2022
Hi Folks,
It’s always satisfying when a quality reviewer like John Johnson of Secrets of Home Theater magazine request that he would like to continue to utilize our Bryston BR-20 Preamplifier/DAC/Streamer in his personal reference system!
Hi James,
I have a very large array of reference equipment This is because I feel that if I had only one reference setup, I would be biased towards the sound of that setup when listening to review products.
Any deviation from the sound of that reference kit that I am used to might be interpreted as not being fair. So, I alternate between the array of reference items that I have in order not to be biased towards any particular sound.
This is a formal request as I would like to use the Bryston BR-20 in my reference system”.
John Johnson
BR-20 Full Review:
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/preamplifier/bryston-br-20-stereo-preamplifier-review/
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Hi James,
How are such reported issues like the blinking light treated @ Bryston? Is the issue automatically handed over to the quality department once reported from multiple users here in the circle? Somehow I would appreciate an outlook on what happens in such cases -especially since with products like the BR20 we will have more software bugs than hardware issues in the future.
Thanks and have a good day,
Holger
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Hi James,
How are such reported issues like the blinking light treated @ Bryston? Is the issue automatically handed over to the quality department once reported from multiple users here in the circle? Somehow I would appreciate an outlook on what happens in such cases -especially since with products like the BR20 we will have more software bugs than hardware issues in the future.
Thanks and have a good day,
Holger
Hi Holger
It is usually forwarded to the software guys - the difficult thing is replicating the issue so it can be dealt with. We have hundreds of BR-20's in the field now and so it takes some time to sort out what is a universal symptom that needs fixing vs a particular issue in a specific situation.
Over time we can usually sort things out. The positive thing is software is fixable in the field over time whereas hardware problems mean a return to the factory - fortunately the BR-20 has had zero hardware issues.
james
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In respect to blinking flashing red light some experience.
Its mentioned blinking red occurs on startup so could this occur when device comes to end of DHCP IP address lease? So suddenly starts blinking after a week at this point not startup but just cause and affect for some reason not being successful in retaining leased IP. So would work until the IP address is used by another device then one or both devices with same IP stop working?
I use enterprise level business network stuff so don't have this problem.
What you can do is look at address range DHCP server gives out usually 192.168.???.??? by accessing router, router modem, often at the gateway address.
So for our example lets say 192.168.0.??? So what I do if its 192.168.0.10-254. Is change to 192.168.0.50 - to 192.168.0.250.
Then set BR-20 to static ip address 192.168.0.40 and 192.168.0.41. ???.???.???.1 is always taken thought
This can also be done from some routers and is called reserving an IP address. Look at it's manual to see how to go about this.
The blinking red light is not network related, it represents two pieces of hardware inside the unit hand shaking and usually takes about 1-2 minutes to occur upon turning the unit on and is normal.
We don't understand what is meant by "So suddenly starts blinking after a week at this point not startup but just cause and affect for some reason not being successful in retaining leased IP".
We have left BR20's on 24/7 for weeks on end and not had to touch it let alone see a flashing red lock light, I'm not saying there isn't something wrong, just that its not as simple as leaving the machine on.
Also we don't test or use static ip addresses because ip address reservation is a thing and we have mybryston.com
Chris
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Hi James,
How are such reported issues like the blinking light treated @ Bryston? Is the issue automatically handed over to the quality department once reported from multiple users here in the circle? Somehow I would appreciate an outlook on what happens in such cases -especially since with products like the BR20 we will have more software bugs than hardware issues in the future.
Thanks and have a good day,
Holger
Issues are typically reported by way of email, ticket entry (by way of the contact us page) or by calling and this typically gives as the ability to be able to communicate and have some back and forth communication to get a better understanding of an issues that isn't easily reproduceable. In some cases in the past we've accomplished this via forums like AudioCircle, but lately I've found myself to busy with other tasks to make it on here nearly as frequent as I use to.
Chris
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There are at least a couple of us having the red light issue. I describe what happens.
I use my BR-20 exclusively with Roon. When I first select Roon Bridge and enable the BR-20 in Roon, things work as expected (for a roon bridge application). I put my BR-20 in standby when not in use. When I turn it back on, I have to enable the BR-20 in Roon.
After about 10 days of use as above, when the BR-20 is powered up, the lock light flashes red and continues to do so indefinitely. I can still stream from Roon. But the lock light nevers stops falshing red. If I unplug the BR-20 and plug it back in, it resets and the lock light is then green when streaming. After 10 days or so, back to flashing red.
As I said, I am not the only one having this exact issue.
thanks for you help.
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It must have something to do with the use of ROON.
I do not use ROON and have not experienced that red light blinking other than when I change the software version.
james
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235193)
MEMO: To All Concerned
SUBJECT: High Fidelity BR-20 Best Product Award
January 2022
Hi Folks,
The passing year has been very hard for all of us. At the same time, it was extremely interesting, both from the end customer and journalists’ point of view. It was year of a growing music industry, and best sales of music in history – that gives us hope and not only for the survival, but the development and growth of high-end audio industry. And it was all in COVID-year…
Also, for us, High Fidelity magazine, it has been very good time. We would like to thank you all sincerely for your cooperation and kindness - without you and our readers we would not be where we are now.
In 2021, we tested over 120 products and we liked the vast majority of them a lot.
However, to make our readers lives easier, we’ve chosen – for the fourteenth time – several devices and music releases that we liked the most.
BEST PRODUCT 2021 AWARD GOES TO:
Bryston BR-20
Preamplifier/DAC/audio files player
WOJCIECH PACUŁA
High Fidelity Magazine
Poland
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I could not agree more with the review by TAS and High Fidelity.
My wife and I were blown away streaming and listening to our vinyl over the weekend. I heard instruments that I did not know were in some of the recordings.
Amazing product.
Tim Smith
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Is the red light issue, or more generally a lack of communication between to he BR-20 and Roon, the reason Roon has not certified the BR-20? Recently, Danny of Roon indicated on their community pages that there were issues Bryston needed to fix.
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Is the red light issue, or more generally a lack of communication between to he BR-20 and Roon, the reason Roon has not certified the BR-20? Recently, Danny of Roon indicated on their community pages that there were issues Bryston needed to fix.
HI
No it has to do with the way they want the volume bar on ROON to work with the volume control on the BR-20.
We are working on new software but that is a ways off.
james
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That must be frustrating. BTW, I'm using and enjoying the BR-20 with Roon as my only means of playing music 40+ hrs a week with no issues.
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Somehow I am lost with the whole ROON thing - I thought the BR 20 was ROON certified? Or did I mix something up?
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Somehow I am lost with the whole ROON thing - I thought the BR 20 was ROON certified? Or did I mix something up?
There is ROON Bridge and ROON Certified.
We use ROON Bridge which is open source - ROON Certified is something ROON offers that Officially Certifies the product.
james
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235353)
MEMO: To All Concerned
SUBJECT: Rolling Stone BR-20 Best Product Award
January 2022
If you’re looking for the best possible way to hear your digital music, Bryston’s new BR-20 should be at the center of your home audio system.
The DAC (digital analog converter) can play high resolution audio at full quality with no conversion or compression necessary.
It has four HDMI inputs, two Toslink inputs, a pair of SPDIF inputs, and balanced audio inputs, so you should have no problem hooking up all of your equipment. The BR-20 also has a pair of single ended and analog inputs if you’re into vinyl. The analog and digital inputs have their own power supply to ensure the lowest amount of distortion possible.
You can play music stored on your computer by plugging it directly into this preamp using a USB cable. You can also stream music stored on a server by connecting the BR-20 to your home network with an Ethernet cable, and using Bryston’s custom-built software. We really like that this pre-amp has a lot of HDMI inputs, so you can connect a TV, SACD player or game console to it directly. It’s user-friendly features like this, that make the Bryston BR-20 more inviting for newcomers to high-end audio.
The Bryston BR-20 is a peerless preamplifier that will not only make your music sound incredible, but it’s guaranteed to work with the gear you already have. Whether you’re building a totally new audio system, or looking for a big upgrade, you can’t go wrong.
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:icon_twisted:
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closing the Roon app and reopening does not fix the blinking red light for me. Do you mean restarting Roon server?
When I go into mybryston.com when the red light is blinking, it says to "powercycle" the BR-20, with a picture of the BR-20 unplugged. This is all that has worked for me to stop the blinking red light. I am getting the blinking light every 3 or 4 days now.
When using Roon, sometimes the display of the BR-20 says "Roon Bridge". Sometimes it says "Roon |" and sometimes it just displays "--". Strange.
Definitely a few bugs to work on.
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Hi,
Can somebody explain how to replace the batteries in the BR20 remote? I took out the 4 screws on both ends of the remote, looked inside and decided to not do anything unless I get a description from somewhere. To me it looks like one has to pull out the circuit board. Can that be?
Thanks,
Holger
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Yes pull out the circuit board to see the battery.
james
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Thanks, James. Will do. Thought I better ask before causing damage.
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:icon_twisted:
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:icon_twisted:
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Hi,
I got a BR-20 some time ago and finally set it up yesterday. While it sounds great, it's a bit of a pain to play something via Tidal and I'm hoping that's just operator error on my part.
I use a MacBook Air to access the http://10.0.0.131/bryston/views/default.php# portal in conjunction with the Tidal app. If I want to listen to something, I find it in the Tidal app, add it to a playlist in the app and then find the playlist in the web interface.
As I said, it seems a bit clunky and I hope that's just me.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks!
Chris
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:icon_twisted:
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The advantage of having AIR connected is also if you have Apple Music you can also play it back via BR-20 DAC. At which point I said bye to Tidal.
help, what does this sentence mean - I didn't follow what you meant by AIR connected
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I think he means AirPlay
james
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:icon_twisted:
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Hi,
Yes the USB connection would work. I added Tidal because of their supposedly higher bitrate availability though everything I have streamed has clocked in at 16/44.1kHz.
I've had Apple Music for years and prefer the interface.
Is there a trick on the Bryston or Tidal side to be able to stream at higher than CD res bitrate? (It sounds really good already, but better is worth the effort.)
Thank you!
Kindest regards,
Chris
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Hi Chris
Tidal is limited to CD quality and Apple Music can do 192/24 but needs to be a wired connection - see my Bryston Newsletter on how to hook up your Ipad or Phone to the USB input.
james
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James,
Thanks! Does the same thing work with a MacBook Air, USB cable, and dongle for the computer or USB to USB 4 cable? (Air's have Two Thunderbolt / USB 4 ports) Alternatively, can a dongle and HDMI cable be used for the same thing?
I found the newsletters here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=176688.0
Are their high res images somewhere as well?
Chris
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James,
Thanks! Does the same thing work with a MacBook Air, USB cable, and dongle for the computer or USB to USB 4 cable? (Air's have Two Thunderbolt / USB 4 ports) Alternatively, can a dongle and HDMI cable be used for the same thing?
I found the newsletters here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=176688.0
Are their high res images somewhere as well?
Chris
Not sure about the HDMI cable - I have only used a USB cable plus Camera adapter. I am not sure on the laptop as I have tried my Apple Laptop and it does not automatically switch the sample rate. As far as I know only the Iphone or Ipad does that.
Email me and I will send you the 2 Newsletters dealing with the IPAD. - jamestanner@bryston.com
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I use a MacBook Air to access the http://10.0.0.131/bryston/views/default.php# portal in conjunction with the Tidal app. If I want to listen to something, I find it in the Tidal app, add it to a playlist in the app and then find the playlist in the web interface.
Can you not click on Tidal in the Manic Moose (web browser) interface, then search for what you want in the search bar in the upper-right, and then click on the item to start playing it / add it to the Now Playing list? This won't add it to a Tidal-managed playlist, but I think you can save the Now Playing list to a Bryston-managed playlist.
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Hi,
Yes. I was able to figure that out eventually. It doesn't sort out the why I cannot get over 16/44.1 out of Tidal, but with James' suggestion it looks like I can do it with Apple Music, a cable an adapter, and an iPad. I've had Apple Music since it launched, my library is there, and I'm comfortable with the interface.
Thanks!
Chris
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More on this, is there any issue just using a lighting to USB cable instead of the Lightning camera USB adapter and a USB cable?
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It doesn't sort out the why I cannot get over 16/44.1 out of Tidal....
You may note that Tidal does not specify bit-depth or sample rate on their plan descriptions, but instead bitrate. That's most likely because they encode their "high-resolution" audio in MQA, which technically delivers to you a "CD amount of bitrate (https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002599997-What-Audio-Quality-Do-TIDAL-HiFi-Plans-Offer-)", and Bryston does not perform MQA decode.
More on this, is there any issue just using a lighting to USB cable instead of the Lightning camera USB adapter and a USB cable?
The USB adapter contains some additional hardware circuitry to support certain advanced features like USB audio. There are some third-party ones but I personally recommend sticking with Apple hardware.
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James,
Thanks! Does the same thing work with a MacBook Air, USB cable, and dongle for the computer or USB to USB 4 cable? (Air's have Two Thunderbolt / USB 4 ports) Alternatively, can a dongle and HDMI cable be used for the same thing?
I found the newsletters here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=176688.0
Are their high res images somewhere as well?
Chris
You can play Apple music using MacOS, however it wont be bit perfect; for bit perfect playback you'll need to use an iOS device like an iPhone or iPad connected to a USB DAC.
Chris
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Hi,
Yes. I was able to figure that out eventually. It doesn't sort out the why I cannot get over 16/44.1 out of Tidal, but with James' suggestion it looks like I can do it with Apple Music, a cable an adapter, and an iPad. I've had Apple Music since it launched, my library is there, and I'm comfortable with the interface.
Thanks!
Chris
44khz 16bit is the highest lossless resolution provided by TIDAL and we don't support the lossy MQA format.
Chris
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I have just recently got my BR20 and I am trying to use it with a harmony hub. There is no BR20 in the Logitech list. Has anyone found something similar on the list that works.
Many Thanks
Stuart
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I have just recently got my BR20 and I am trying to use it with a harmony hub. There is no BR20 in the Logitech list. Has anyone found something similar on the list that works.
Many Thanks
Stuart
did you look at other bryston products in the list? companies tend to use the same codes on all of their products -- for instance, the br4 remote works on a wide variety of bryston products. i would think the bda-3.14 and the b135 would be good choices to try. i may be wrong, but it's easy enough to give it a go.
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I use my BR20 and set up my harmony based upon the BP17cubed that I found via the logitech app. Hope that helps.
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Hi,
An update:
I got a USB cable and the required lightning to USB adapter. On my iPhone I turn off airplay, make the resolution lossless, and connect my iPhone X to the lightning end of the adapter and the BR-20 locks on the 44.1 signal, but no sound comes out of the speakers.
Any ideas for troubleshooting?
Kindest regards,
Chris
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Try rebooting with the USB connected to the Iphone.
Make sure you have the latest software on the IPhone 15.2
james
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James,
Power cycling worked. Everything I've chosen so far still shows locked at 44.1. Any ideas?
Thank you!
Chris
p. s. Kind of Blue popped at 192kHz...so it works.
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James,
Power cycling worked. Everything I've chosen so far still shows locked at 44.1. Any ideas?
Thank you!
Chris
p. s. Kind of Blue popped at 192kHz...so it works.
HI - The DAC in the BR20 shows 'what is coming in' so if it stays on 44.1 then that file is 44.1.
james
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I use my BR20 and set up my harmony based upon the BP17cubed that I found via the logitech app. Hope that helps.
Thanks Spartana 17B3 seems to be the best fit and does 95% of what I need it to do after some experimentation. The individual on and off buttons did not work so I just reprogrammed to the power toggle so it works with my activities.
James et al - Is there anything special about the ‘code’ button I was trying to get that to work as one of the ‘missing’ buttons and could not get the harmony to recognize it, the others seem OK.
Many Thanks in Advance
Stuart
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Thanks Spartana 17B3 seems to be the best fit and does 95% of what I need it to do after some experimentation. The individual on and off buttons did not work so I just reprogrammed to the power toggle so it works with my activities.
James et al - Is there anything special about the ‘code’ button I was trying to get that to work as one of the ‘missing’ buttons and could not get the harmony to recognize it, the others seem OK.
Many Thanks in Advance
Stuart
Hi Stuart - email Adam on that please. - atanner@bryston.com
james
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In two of his newsletters, James Tanner suggested a single-port camera adapter to use your ipad with the BR20 (and I assume the BDA 3.14) but noted the port couldn't be used to charge your ipad at the same time. I'm wondering if this device would work. Wouldn't it would allow you to charge your ipad and listen to 192/24 music at the same time?
https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter?fnode=d86dcf442ab5a21cb97d0cbe3bfd7d4b2b25ef0c9da6c0aefeec66a5ef67167f43eda6e155e759d1d475bfd2b442178e03d6187b6a88c00a51337b47f484c5a1442865b1d4463c5557e7c1dfbe384ce5123545f7179f3f02ef5fe940815dfe22
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Yes that will work - I have one.
james
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To all Bryston BR-20 users :
I has come to our attention that a release of the internal BR-20 software might have made it to some of your units with a component called “Roon Bridge” enabled. While not shipped with your unit out of the factory, it seems that this update may have been inadvertently pushed to users whom it was not intended for. After been notified of this situation by Roon Labs and talking to them about the situation, we wanted to clarify a few details in order not to mislead you. Bryston and Roon Labs are actively and relentlessly working at completing the Roon RAAT Certification for the BR-20.
A few weeks before the launch of the BR-20, an obscure bug was discovered by Roon Labs. This bug sometimes occurs when the user makes a lot of volume changes using the front panel wheel while at the same time moving the volume control in the Roon application back and forth in quick succession. In some cases, this would cause the volume level in Roon not the accurately reflect the actual volume level on the BR-20 for a few seconds.
Because of this bug, the BR-20 Roon certification was rejected and Bryston has been tirelessly working at finding a solution for it. As such, and in accordance with Roon Terms and Conditions, the BR-20 was launched (and is still shipped) without Roon support out of the box. As some users and testers were still asking for a way to use Roon to test out product, we opted for a temporary compromise which was to make a Beta/Testing software version available with RoonBridge installed as a temporary way to play media from Roon. This image was to be made available to select users only and under the understanding that this was a technical demo to help test the capabilities of the unit and that it was not an official version of the software sanctioned by Roon Labs. We had also notified the few users we originally sent this image to that it was to be considered experimental and without and guarantee of features or support of Roon technologies. Those would be released as soon as the certification process was completed. Despite our intent, it looks like this image might have made it to more units then expected due to a misconfiguration in our update server.
We apologize for the confusion and wish to reiterate that the Roon Bridge solution currently running on some units is not an official Roon implementation and is not supported by Roon Labs. It was always intended as a temporary patch for some testers to be able to experimentally play content from their Roon library and test out some features of the BR-20 but was and will never be a production ready solution.
As soon as the certification process is complete (which hopefully should happen any day now), an over-the-air update will be made available to all users which will include the official implementation certified by Roon Labs. Also if implementation of ROON is critical for the customer we do not recommend the BR-20 at this time but instead the 3.14 and the BDP-3?
We thank you for your understanding and will update you again once the update is available.
Kind regards,
Bryston
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Don’t update to latest version of media player software you’ll loose Roon Bridge again.
For any folks lurking who don’t wish roon mine is up for sale on CAM same username
Best of luck to all
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Three straight forward solutions that I am using while waiting for Roon Certification.
1. USB input from a PC running Roon Server
2. Bryston Digital Player feeding a digital input. All are Roon Certified.
3. BluOS Node feeding a digital input. Also Roon Certified and has IR remote capabilities as well.
I also run an Apple TV with an app TV Roon Remote that gives full remote control and video of the music playing.
All great solutions as we wait for the Bryston Certification. The BR-20 is still worth the purchase today, because I prefer it’s DAC over the BDA-3. I know they are “the same” but based on listening tests I would beg to differ. Do others agree with me? Curious.
Drew
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Hi,
Can anybody share their experience with the built in headphone amp?
Thanks,
Holger
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Help, and please be gentle to a Luddite! How do I watch youtube on my phone and have the sound through my BR20? Is there some sort of usb bluetooth thing that can plug into the back of the br20?
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And as a follow up to my last question, is it possible for me to run a normal charging cable from my iphone to one of the USB inputs on the BR20?
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Help, and please be gentle to a Luddite! How do I watch youtube on my phone and have the sound through my BR20? Is there some sort of usb bluetooth thing that can plug into the back of the br20?
If you have turned on Shairpoint-Sync as the "Playback Method" on your BR-20, in the web interface, and also selected the streamer input (SRC1 button) then you should be able to use AirPlay on you iPhone to send only the audio to the BR-20 while watching YouTube. There may be a noticeable audio delay though, relative to the video.
And as a follow up to my last question, is it possible for me to run a normal charging cable from my iphone to one of the USB inputs on the BR20?
If you want to output audio on your iPhone through USB, you need to use one of the Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter (https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter) or Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter (https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter) dongles and then a USB cable.
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Thank you very much, and I got some help on your first suggestion from the very great Adam Tanner, and will be ordering the adapter today, that’s fantastic, cheers.
Incidentally I didn’t get any lag to speak of through wifi.
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Chris,
Acknowledging your comment below about resolution from TIDAL, I've seen it stated in a number of cases that the BR20 will do 16-b/44.1kHz from TIDAL however, though I do see a Sample Rate = 44.1 the highest bitrate on any file I get from TIDAL is showing as 320 kbps - is this in fact 16-bit or am I hearing an upsampling done by the BR20? Very curious as to the reason for limitation on any TIDAL file to 320kbps??? :scratch: :duh:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237099)
44khz 16bit is the highest lossless resolution provided by TIDAL and we don't support the lossy MQA format.
Chris
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Make sure in "Settings" you have it set to Lossless.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237109)
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Thanks James,
I've made this change i.e. from High to Lossless but what I'm seeing now if very curious. Playing this same track, I have:
A variable Bitrate that is fluctuating as the track plays....ranging from about 500kbps and going up as high as 1000kbps;
While the Sample Rate is: 44100:16:2
I guess its the Sample Rate that is now 44.1 kHz /16.2-bit that indicates I'm now getting CD quality. Good to be reassured...now to listen some more to this player vs. the Bluesound NODE (v3)
Make sure in "Settings" you have it set to Lossless.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237109)
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Hi - Yes the bitrate will change as it streams.
james
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Help, and please be gentle to a Luddite! How do I watch youtube on my phone and have the sound through my BR20? Is there some sort of usb bluetooth thing that can plug into the back of the br20?
If you have an iPhone, you could use this: https://www.belkin.com/us/speakers-headphones/speakers/soundform-connect-audio-adapter-with-airplay-2/p/p-auz002/
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Hi James,
Regarding the use of 1. BCON Web User Interface (BR20BCN) vs. the 2. On-board Streamer (BR-20), my understanding is the two can't be enabled at the same time with a single Ethernet connection. It appears from the explanation in the manual that for the former (1), you need to hook up the Network cable to the SVC ETHERNET port, while for the latter (2), the ETHERNET port must be used. Hence, when I am using the Streamer (2), I can't use the BCON to remote control the BR-20. Let me know if I've misunderstood the manual.
My question is, did Bryston envision the use of a Network Switch/Hub with two separate Network cables connecting to the BR-20 in a full installation? Is that the only way - other than un-hooking and hooking the Network cable, to get both BCON and STREAMER to work concurrently?
How is yours setup in your own installation? Thanks.
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Hi - sounds like an Adam question - atanner@bryston.com
james
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Thanks James - I'll do that.
Hi - sounds like an Adam question - atanner@bryston.com
james
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Hi Guys
I’ve just done a firmware upgrade to S2.44 2022-02-02 on my BR-20.
I’ve only noticed that the display seems to have been greatly improved and complete track titles now display. I also think SQ has been improved but that could be my imagination.
I think it may be a good idea for us all to be advised that a upgrade is available via these pages. I’m not interested in Roon but I did the upgrade anyway as you never know what else shows up (display).
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Hi Folks - Looks like we got part of the front cover (BR-20) on the Absolute Sound Magazine - Best Audio Gear of 2022
Usually this means they say nice things
james
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237230)
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Congratulations on the cover!
Question: will the DAC card from the BR-20 work in the BP-17 cubed? and/or are there any plans to add a USB interface to the DAC card for the BP-17 cubed?
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Congratulations on the cover!
Question: will the DAC card from the BR-20 work in the BP-17 cubed? and/or are there any plans to add a USB interface to the DAC card for the BP-17 cubed?
Hi
No plans currently for that but once things settle down possibly. I would have to ask engineering if it was doable
james
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the hardest button to button... :lol:
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.b7hCYtQc8b-qVH52hwNjjgHaFj?pid=ImgDet&rs=1)
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Please can someone tell me what’s going on. Ever since I did a software update to S2.44 I have to power recycle daily. This can’t be right!
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Hi Clive - not sure why that is occurring.
Email Adam and see if he can help - atanner@bryston.com
james
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Anyone have their front display go dark after the new MDP update S2.45 2022-03-21
Roon Bridge stopped working, so using a PC again for Roon, volume is finally functional with remote, balance works again from remote.
I have to agree with Clive it seems to sound a touch better...
Have an RA but don't want to cause unnecessary cost of return if not required. Display does come back on like there is display dimming going on, which would make sense for longevity of display, wouldn't mind it being adjustable sometimes its nice to see for company and potential clients.
While it has its frustrations the sound is so so good.
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Anyone have their front display go dark after the new MDP update S2.45 2022-03-21
This can be avoided if on turn-on you wait until the OLED Display says Stream BR20 Stopped before you choose to access Manic Moose. Once a track is selected the display will correctly show track/Artist.
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Thanks
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Just wanted to say how pleased I am with the BR-20. I am especially happy to have a product with HDMI, since most AV receivers are not of audiophile quality.
I am hoping that with the new HDMI standards you will eventually release an updated card.
Also, hoping you incorporate HDMI into more of your products, especially preamps, dacs and integrateds.
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I’ve downloaded new firmware for my BR-20 (S-45) which is now as stable as Jelly!. I still need to recycle mains every one or two days. I’ve e-mailed Adam at Bryston and have not had any reply after 10 days. I’ve contacted PMC here in the UK and as yet still not had any reply (2 weeks).
I still love the sound of my BR-20 BUT!!!. Hardware great, Firmware not so.
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I’ve downloaded new firmware for my BR-20 (S-45) which is now as stable as Jelly!. I still need to recycle mains every one or two days. I’ve e-mailed Adam at Bryston and have not had any reply after 10 days. I’ve contacted PMC here in the UK and as yet still not had any reply (2 weeks).
I still love the sound of my BR-20 BUT!!!. Hardware great, Firmware not so.
Hi Clive
We have a new version of software that we have submitted to ROON for certification that should fix the issue you are experiencing.
I hope to be able to release that version very soon.
james
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Hi,
Any of you experienced turning the volume dial up or down but the display did not change?
By the way I got the latest firmware installed.
Castor
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239042)
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James, Excellent News BR-20 is Roon Certified. Looking forward to details in the next few days! Cheers Drew
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Good Day
I have both network ports on BR-20 connected to my switch. Using the network I give them network reservations (dedicated ip addresses). Was told I couldn’t connect both but find doing so doesn’t make problems worse. My volume and balance are problematic from remote so need BCON to take control. When this remote volume problem occurs my power icon goes olive if that helps.
If you can do you tube video (anything streaming) on a mac, iphone or ipad you can use airplay to get it to BR-20. To do so you need to enable the Shairport sync feature which should turn off moose/MDP. Then BR-20 should show on airplay menu on your device. Now its important you shut off Roon’s or another applications attachments to airplay or you will get conflicts. Apple music must be off before I use Roon and vice versa.
I purchased a mini-pc for lossless Apple Music playback via asio layer connected to USB port on BR-20.
So I click on HDMI port its connected to for video to work then click on USB. This allows hdmi out on BR-20 to stay active while you listen to USB audio sweetness.
I go in windows sound control panel applet and set output to 24/192 (highest bitrate) apple music lossless does. I did add a linear power supply (based on R-core) and have to turn sub down two ticks. Over two weeks the refinements, details, image, started to show through. 650 total investment better than streamers in that cost range. Can then use PC for tidal, video playback, anything with a application. 650 is cheaper than an iPad Air or Mac Mini but both are also good options. You won’t upgrade Linear PS as easily…
If you don’t have HDMI on BR-20 connect pc directly to a TV or Monitors using HDMi just make sure your primary sound card is USB asio layer (the name is BDA-3).
Have a detailed explanation on what was purchased in Roon Community under Jerry_B
If using for more than apple music buy a NUC with i5. Know steamer will work soon so my concern was only apple music. The old apple Remote app is still there. With access to playlists and transport control.
Once I upgraded LPS the SQ blew my old iPad Air 2 out water. Prior to upgrade matched it.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239463)
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James this is great news! I updated to the latest firmware today (dated 4/12), but still only see "Roon Bridge" as one of the services to select, not "Roon Ready." Is there a subsequent firmware update coming, or some other trick to implement the new capabilities?
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Did you update the "BCON" side as well? When you update the firmware, it will show a link to instructions for updating the processor software, which requires moving your ethernet cable from the streaming port to the SVC (service) port and then installing a file, etc.
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Did you update the "BCON" side as well? When you update the firmware, it will show a link to instructions for updating the processor software, which requires moving your ethernet cable from the streaming port to the SVC (service) port and then installing a file, etc.
Manic Moose should prompt you to update the BCON firmware as well, if it is you may want to check the system settings page to make sure the update installed, should read S2.45-2022-03-28
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239503)
Chris
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I actually did just the BCON update, per the instructions on the support.bryston.com download site. Then I reset the DEFAULT EEPROM as instructed. Everything appeared to work, with the reboot, unplug, reboot, etc., but the while the firmware says it is the right version (2022_03e), the "about" section still has a Nov. 2021 date (S2.44 2021-11-01). I've done this process three times now.
When I reconnect to the streaming plug, and try to do an update directly in manic moose, it tells me the I should re-download because the checksums don't match. I've now done that twice. Sometimes it just shows an endless blinking hash mark. Any advice on how to force the update? Am I doing it in the wrong order?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239510)
Last potential clue: logging in to my.bryston, the first page includes this:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239512)
It clearly does have a connection, however, as it's streaming just fine via roon.
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Lets assume the bryston is okay.
From your internet connection out do you have a wire running to switch or directly to BR-20?
Just general network suggestions. It is important that wire from modem stays on wan port of router. That a switch is installed on the network ports of router. If modem is in router again if you need a switch at stereo its important that it run from network ports. So outward from center like a web. For instance the red port on a Bell 3000 modem can’t be used if you are on fibre
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Well, apparently it just needed a good night's sleep. This morning, Manic Moose provided a smooth firmware update, and Roon Ready mode is available. None of the issues from yesterday are recurring. :scratch:
Thanks all.
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Great news !
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I’ve downloaded new firmware for my BR-20 (S-45) which is now as stable as Jelly!. I still need to recycle mains every one or two days. I’ve e-mailed Adam at Bryston and have not had any reply after 10 days. I’ve contacted PMC here in the UK and as yet still not had any reply (2 weeks).
I still love the sound of my BR-20 BUT!!!. Hardware great, Firmware not so.
After 1 week from downloading new Firmware supplied by Bryston and 2 days for the new Software I am pleased to report that the Jelly has set very hard. No issues at all. It’s possible I think that the return to factory setting after installing the new Bin file resolved the recycle every few days issue, just a thought. If it was the firmware, why didn’t everyone else have the same issues that I’ve experienced?
Over the year that I have owned the BR-20 I have loved the sound that is achieved but the firmware/software problems have been very frustrating. Let’s hope that everything is now sorted.
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I think my remote on the BR20 has died. It's a couple months old. It just stopped working one day. I replaced the batteries, but no dice. This happened prior to me fully updating to Roon and BCON. I don't see the forward facing led light illuminate when I press any button aside from the "code" button. Aside from that , it's dark. How can I fix? I use the remote volume a lot from my listening position.
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Email Adam as it may just need the CODE.
james
atanner@bryston.com
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BR-20 Remote Code Resetting
Push and HOLD the CODE button for 5 FULL seconds. When the white LED starts to blink let go of code and then quickly and firmly push D7, D9, D5 in that order.
You should see the white LED blink twice to say it has accepted the code.
I had to do this after replacing the batteries. Worked fine afterwards.
Cheers
Drew
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There are some important bug fixes with the HTB and Mute functions and this new version needs to be installed.
Just post the link to this page and say that the BR20_2022_04a BIN file needs to be installed and the PDF with instructions on how to do it are posted at the same link.
http://support.bryston.com/downloads/BR-20/firmware/
Adam Tanner
Senior Technician
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Hi Adam, James, any way to go back from 2022-4 update to whatever it was before? I had some strange side effects after the update. Thanks, Holger
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Hi Adam, James, any way to go back from 2022-4 update to whatever it was before? I had some strange side effects after the update. Thanks, Holger
You would have to contact Adam @ atanner@bryston.com
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Speaks For Itself:
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2552:bryston-br20-preamplifier-dac-measurements&catid=433:preamplifier-measurements&Itemid=142
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Hi James,
How far off is the HT bypass feature?
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You would have to contact Adam @ atanner@bryston.com
Thanks James. Just did. Let's see what he writes.
@ everybody:
Since the firmware update the LINK and SRC2 lights stay red when switching on the BR20. Playback via SRC2 is unaffected.
Before both lights + the 96k0 turned green when switching on the BR20 (there is a streamer connected via SPDIF).
Some similar experiences?
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Hi James,
How far off is the HT bypass feature?
It is available in the new software.
james
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It is available in the new software.
james
That is awesome news, thanks!
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It is available in the new software.
james
James, is switching the display completely off during playback still in progress?
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Hi James,
Does the BR-20 have Squeezelite, or are there any plans to add it?
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Hi James,
Does the BR-20 have Squeezelite, or are there any plans to add it?
Hi - I believe it has been available for a while with Manic Moose interface
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=240185)
james
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Thanks James, I am a fan of LMS so that is nice to see.
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I read the manual and I could not find if it is possible to have one output be a pre-out and the other configured as fixed output. I could not see a fixed tape out on the pictures I looked at.
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Hi - no the outputs are in parallel so no fixed vs variable.
There is no tape out as well.
Sounds like the BR-20 is not the correct product given your needs Greg.
Best
james
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Hi James, I use tape out for recording vinyl. The list of other features on the BR-20 is comprehensive and impressive.
I read the manual (and reviews) before I asked some questions for additional clarity, Thanks for taking the time to answer them.
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Good Day
When leaving Home Theater Bypass to any input the volume comes on at -10 so if the input is active its enough to cause heart palpation's.
My work around for this until fixed is simply select input you use for home theater bypass turn on HTB then when done with HTB turn it off.
I have noticed setting default volume in volume control menu, states its disabled.
(sent two emails since 25th no response)
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Ok let me send this to the software folks.
james
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From software folks.
Stan, 11:30 AM
@James - what firmware version?
Stan, 11:39 AM
In the new software revision, 2022.04a or later, when you switch away from a HT Bypass source, the system will restore the last used volume before HT Bypass was engaged, limited for safety to -10dB. If your previous voulme was > -10dB then it will be restored limited to -10dB. If it was less then -10 it will be restored to that what it was.
Stan, 11:41 AM
It works regardless whether the volume preset is enabled or disabled. Volume preset allows restoring the preset volume during power on stage, not during input source switching.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=240291)
Good morning. Just bought a BR20. Does this (please see picture) look right? The BCON is not ‘online’. I did update the firmware. Thank you for your help!
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I think that's correct. There are two ethernet ports on the back of the BR-20. One port is for streaming and the other port is a service port for firmware updates. You are connected to the streaming port, so the service port (BCON port) is showing as unreachable.
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Good Day
Have updated to today's BR20_2022_04c.bin
Switching from Home Theater bypass to Roon (Streamer) volume was -40 a much better level. I did so by clicking a song in Roon, then BR-20 switched from HTB to playing that song in Roon.
Slick so we can control volume from Roon, but also force Roon\streamer to start to play selected song in Roon no matter what input we are on.
Family asleep I'll check all inputs tomorrow.
Should I contact you or Stan about some other minor issues I have noticed?
Sound as always is most excellent.
Check out the new Rush - Moving Pictures album (white)
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Sure let us know if you find any other quirks.
best
james
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Hi Folks quick question on the BR-20.
We are having issues getting HDMI boards and Pi computers (used for streaming in the BR-20).
HDMI has always been an Option on the Br-20 and less than 5% of our customers order HDMI.
What if we offered the Pi Streamer as an option as well as a lot of our customers have Streamers as well?
So the BR20 would have the option of a Streamer or HDMI or Phono and priced accordingly.
Thoughts?
james
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:duh: soo.... not quite BR-20 and slight uptick than BP-17?...
BQ-18.5??... :nono:
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Hi GeAllan
Not really a BP17 as the BR-20 is a fully balanced circuit path throughout.
james
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Hi James
Jeff Geerling’s YouTube channel focused on the Pi says the the model 4 boards could be in short supply well into 2023. It stated that 4 million boards were being made each month but that they are being sent to large customers that build them into products. There is a website that is dedicated to availability but I don’t have the name. Thus in the short term it makes sense to offer the BR-20 Pi as an option, but I suspect sales will be impacted significantly. Streaming is a key feature. I suggest exploring other micro controller streaming options with a solid software base and good consumer acceptance.
Interesting times! Sad!
Cheers Drew
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Yes we are looking at the Rock-Pi and the Banana-Pi
But surprisingly a number of dealers have called to say that a lot of customers already have streamers and software they like and having the streamer in the BR-20 prevented them from purchasing it.
best
james
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Good Day:
I would know two of the 5 people that have heard mine would be interested.
They have BDP's that they didn't want to part with, and younger families so said as much. Just duplicated too much for them to justify cost.
Three other younger guys I worked with want the whole package, they have the money and would want all in one. Happy wife happy life.
They were saving I'll let them know this info, sure Audioshop would appreciate business.
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For me the combination of streamer, dac and preamp was the perfect solution, and I was very excited when I saw the BR-20 had all three. The BR-20 feeds my two 7b3's and I enjoy the system everyday.
For others, who knows. It seems many streamers come with DACS already, and often preamps too.
Anyway, I'm sorry you have to deal with so many supply issues (and shutdowns etc.).
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Hi James. As I’m not that great at computer savvy, I was wondering if I need to update software to the very latest 4e as I have no need or use for Home Theatre or Roon. Are there any other advantages or have other changes been made? I have successfully updated firmware.
Clive
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Hi Folks quick question on the BR-20.
We are having issues getting HDMI boards and Pi computers (used for streaming in the BR-20).
HDMI has always been an Option on the Br-20 and less than 5% of our customers order HDMI.
What if we offered the Pi Streamer as an option as well as a lot of our customers have Streamers as well?
So the BR20 would have the option of a Streamer or HDMI or Phono and priced accordingly.
Thoughts?
james
I am a new owner of the BR20. Here is my perspective.
I would have loved the opportunity of being able to buy the BR20 without the streamer, but for a different reason. Right now, just two days after setting up the preamp, I am already ‘browsing’ options for adding a streamer. Why? Because the Manic Moose player is simply not up to Bryston standards. I already know I can learn to live with it but I will probably never love it. Nothing about the Manic Moose player implies anything negative about the rest of the preamp. The sound is awesome. But getting to the album I want is a pain. And then every so often the player just freezes. Etc etc. you get the idea.
I know I could subscribe to Roon. A subscription model is not something I want to support. I thought Bryston was collaborating with volumio ?
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Hi James. As I’m not that great at computer savvy, I was wondering if I need to update software to the very latest 4e as I have no need or use for Home Theatre or Roon. Are there any other advantages or have other changes been made? I have successfully updated firmware.
Clive
Hi Clive - most of the changes is ROON and Pass-Through so no rush.
james
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Hi James,
Why not copy the Automotive world and offer the BR-20 with a negative option to delete the Pi Streamer. Ie the base unit remains as it is today, but you can special order the BR-20 with the streamer eliminated for a discounted price. Best of both worlds. I know its semantics but it works and keeps the BR-20 as envisioned.
Cheers Drew
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Hi Drew,
Yes I am thinking we just make the Streamer or the HDMI or the Phono as options going forward and show prices accordingly.
james
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Hello Folks:
Page 6 of the Bryston BR 20 manual talks about 'optional upsampling' Yet I can not find an upsampling toggle/button unlike the the BDP line?
Manual says:
10. Lock / UPS
When the internal DAC is receiving valid
audio signal, the LOCK LED will light green.
When optional upsampling is engaged (AES/
EBU, TOSLINK, and S/PDIF inputs only) the
Upsampling indicator will light yellow for integer
multiples of 44.1kHz and green for integer
multiples of 48kHz.
My apologies for these questions. I am sure it is somewhere very obvious..... Thank you in advance!
Amit
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HI,'
Yes that is a misprint carried over from the BDA-3 DAC.
Not available on the BR20.
We are looking at making it available from the BR4 Remote.
james
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Hi Drew,
Yes I am thinking we just make the Streamer or the HDMI or the Phono as options going forward and show prices accordingly.
james
...good idea! that way the BR20 can be ordered just the way the customer wants it :thumb:
however, it's just too sad that the BP17³ can't be ordered with an usb input. this preamp has more analog inputs than the BR20 and a tape loop. if the customer now could choose the digital input for the BP17³ it would be absolutely great :thumb:
al.
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Dear All,
Since Saturday, when I had the testing BR-20 installed by David, I have been enjoying it very much. The device's parameters and quality of the sound are exceptionally good, and I can really appreciate my hi-res (DSD and Flac) classical music library to its full potential.
Therefore I have decided to buy my 6th Bryston device (in the configuration which would allow the addition of a turntable).
I would like to thank you very much indeed for your support, to be able to enjoy the quality of this product.
Mike, I am very excited to see an upgrade for the BR-20 with a quality over DSD256 and multi-channel. There are more and more recording and remasters in multi-channel, and I am sure your experience with SP4 will come very handy to bring on the market a truly unique device.
Many thanks and kind regards,
Marius
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Hi Drew,
Yes I am thinking we just make the Streamer or the HDMI or the Phono as options going forward and show prices accordingly.
james
I would love that! A streamer ages quickly. A good Dac and amp can last a long time. I would definitely order mine without Streamer.
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The problem with DSD128 is files themselves only have a few. Two do it three others don’t.
Everything working for what I do.
As always BR-20 sounds most excellent.
For some streamers might get old but if it works with Roon that won’t be an issue.
I have learned being in IT to never say never.
What do I need above 24/192 or dsd 128 can’t hear it.
Feature request:
I have a Gold Note ph-10 simply for sound, inputs and coolness factor of display.
Has Bryston thought about a phono stage that uses BR-20 display to make adjustments for MM and MC inputs? Various requirements load, gain, Perhaps IRAA extended in mix as well.
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Hi,
anybody else having issues with the sample rate of connected digital sources not being automatically determined when switching the BR20 on?
Thanks
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Hi James
Here is the written review and soon to follow a video review on our Youtube channel.
https://www.moon-audio.com/bryston-br-20-preamplifier-review?fbclid=IwAR1lrnEMbCpCHgVZI04F8yXp600QjsMzWVvgDfYZKAuqxDOwl4yFXAjIRXI
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Hi Folks quick question on the BR-20.
We are having issues getting HDMI boards and Pi computers (used for streaming in the BR-20).
HDMI has always been an Option on the Br-20 and less than 5% of our customers order HDMI.
What if we offered the Pi Streamer as an option as well as a lot of our customers have Streamers as well?
So the BR20 would have the option of a Streamer or HDMI or Phono and priced accordingly.
Thoughts?
james
I like that idea, allow more BR-20's to get into the hands of people who just want a the the preamp portion to begin with.
Would the pi, hdmi, phono be user installable. Or would the units have to be sent in? I would prefer user installable.
Would the DAC be part of the Base unit/preamp. So the user or ? just install 1, 2, or 3 add in boards.
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I like the idea of separate options, I personally in my system have no use for HDMI inputs.
Barry M
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Here is something to keep in mind before buying Roon.
Purchased a new computer reinstalled Roon doesn't work, won't restore from backup, won't clean install.
No support in 6 days thankfully while not as Pretty JRiver as always works just fine, must include JRemote app.
While Roon is cool they overcharge and their support is overwhelmed.
Hey what do you expect, things to work that you pay for LOL
Have a great day
Listening to lots of albums.
While Roon isn't working my HDMI inputs provide Apple Music and Radio Paradise via a Apple TV 4k 2nd gen.
HDMI also lets me listen to my SACD from my Sony Transport in native DSD. Glad I added it.
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too bad you were having problems -- roon is a fantastic piece of software. i'd give it another try -- if you've got a machine running windows, that's the easiest thing to install roon on. if you're comfortable, installing rock is just a bit more complicated but is very solid -- you would need a dedicated machine for that. make sure you read the installation directions and make the bios changes that roon recommends.
i've been a lifetime subscriber for at least 5 years and have had roon running 24x7 every day since then. have installed it on windows, installed rock, and installed on other linux platforms. never have had an issue installing or restoring. i previously used jriver (among other things) -- it's a well engineered piece of software, but clearly very different than roon.
for me, the ease of use, power, and quality of the ui make roon a tremendous bargain, especially if you compare the cost of a lifetime subscription to the cost of a quality piece of equipment like bryston.
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Used to say same thing about Roon also been member since 2018. Survives a tornado but a computer did not so upgraded and boom thats all she wrote.
Went from Qnap to two different Windows 10 machines with one with i5 and one with 3900x AMD processor. So not inexperienced.
Best to follow link to post but have already tested hardware (memory and CPU, custom 8 passes) added a Nvidia video card from another computer. Installed Windows 10 twice its a beast of a machine. i9, 32gb ram, nvme drive.
Nothing else is installed just gaming benchmarks to see if they crash or have problem of course not.
Can't get it to install clean or restore from backup...
Now get a email that my post has been hidden as it goes against community standards. Maybe that's how they keep going hide the people with problems until more join?
Looking at Roon logo pulsing away for hours on end and eventually crashes.
My buddies using Manic Moose are saying I told you so...
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/after-restore-from-backup-hanging-logo-not-working-at-all/201971/6
Getting some help now.
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WHATS GOING ON. This morning I loaded the new firmware dated 2022-5-26 and now the display on my BR-20 does not display track details correctly if at all. There are also other issues with Manic Moose.
Is this to do with server issues?
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Hi Folks - I would not recommend loading BETAS or new posted software at this time - too many issues with the storm affect.
james
Clive I will send this to software guys
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Hi Clive - can you give us more detail as to the issues you are having?
james
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Hi James
Incorrect track details which take an age to come up. Many other issues as well re how display is working. Also Manic Moose not displaying artwork on index as it did previously.
Is there any way I can go back to previous firmware which worked well.
Regards
Clive
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I will ask Chris
james
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Hi James
Incorrect track details which take an age to come up. Many other issues as well re how display is working. Also Manic Moose not displaying artwork on index as it did previously.
Is there any way I can go back to previous firmware which worked well.
Regards
Clive
The stable release has been reverted to may 9 2022 release
regarding the artwork is this what your trying to describe?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241020)
Chris
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Hi Chris
Your correct re artwork.
What I would really like to say is a shoutout to you and the rest of Bryston staff for resolving the server/firmware problems due to storms in your area. Well done 👏
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Hello - i have a question about which firmware file(s) should be used for the 5/26/22 update for the BR20. Thanks for any advice.
Best,
Dave
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Hi Chris
Your correct re artwork.
What I would really like to say is a shoutout to you and the rest of Bryston staff for resolving the server/firmware problems due to storms in your area. Well done 👏
Hi Clive, do you recall if media player was displaying a folder icon instead of the images or did you get a missing file icon/error?
Chris
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Hi Chris
Problem now resolved. I went into settings and rejigged a couple of things and hay presto everything now works as previously.
I don’t know if an update altered a setting or I did inadvertently in a senior moment.
Looking forward to Manic Moose’s replacement as I still think that it’s well past it’s sell-by date.
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Will the updated streaming software support LMS (at least the client part)?
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Hi James and Dave,
Here is the video review that just went live on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEvn-zjgu7A
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James,
is it now possible to order the BR20 ''customer-based'' (with or without the dac/hdmi/digital player functions)?
if yes, what are the prices??
thanks,
al.
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James,
is it now possible to order the BR20 ''customer-based'' (with or without the dac/hdmi/digital player functions)?
if yes, what are the prices??
thanks,
al.
Hi Al,
The BR20 options are Phono and HDMI. The prices would vary depending on the country.
james
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Hi,
Is the display in a BR20 or other gear like the BCD3 something to worry about on the long run? I somehow always fear the display in modern devices is a kind of "predetermined breaking point" whereas the rest of the device seems pretty solid. On the other hand I see a lot of older cd players sold pre-owned with intact displays.
Any experiences here?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Holger
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Hi,
Is the display in a BR20 or other gear like the BCD3 something to worry about on the long run? I somehow always fear the display in modern devices is a kind of "predetermined breaking point" whereas the rest of the device seems pretty solid. On the other hand I see a lot of older cd players sold pre-owned with intact displays.
Any experiences here?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Holger
Hi Holger, I believe display is $100 and cd drive $600.So far, there was one member, his display gave up, but it was fixed under warranty.I turn mine off sometimes, Just press #0 and display is off.
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Hi Mariusz, thanks. Do you switch off the display on the BR20 with that combination? Or the BCD3? I never read that in the manual. That is why I ask.
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Hi Mariusz, thanks. Do you switch off the display on the BR20 with that combination? Or the BCD3? I never read that in the manual. That is why I ask.
Hi Holger, I have BP-17³ for preamp.I have no interest in streaming or HDMI connections in my system.But, I wonder if it will work, if you try it?Please, let us know.
Nothing about it in manual.I found out the hard way, right after I hooked it up, I try to play track #10 and instead pressed only #0 and the display went blank.My heart stopped for few seconds, eyes went "wet"...Honestly I don't remember, how I fixed, but I cursed #10 to this day, ha ha.Oh, I think I have called Mike or Adam at Bryston?
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Dear all,
After reading the BR20's manual and many online resources (incl. this very thread), I am still not sure if/how I could integrate a BR20 into my double-duty movie/music (70/30) setup, e.g.:
TV ----> AVR --FL/FR preouts--> BR20 an. inputs with HT bypass--> power amp --> FL/FR speakers
--> remaining speakers driven by AVR internal amps
Can the trigger input power on the BR20 AND select/activate one of its inputs?
The goal would be to use a 12V trigger output from the AVR (which powers on automatically e.g. with the TV thanks to HDMI eARC/CEC) to power on the BR20 on the HT bypassed analogue input, thus removing the need to use multiple remotes e.g. for watching a movie.
I own and appreciate multiple Bryston products, and having such an integration option would make the BR20 even more tempting...
PS: Another relevant use-case could be when one prefers/has another streaming source (one that supports Tidal Connect, is app-controlled instead of web-controller, etc.) that has a 12V trigger output, thus transforming the (BR20+external streamer) into a very user-friendly app-controlled "streaming preamplifier" (please note that the focus here would be the control/interaction method, not the sound quality). I remember James asking for feedback about offering the streaming portion of the BR20 as an option alongside the MM and HDMI ones; this could prove very useful in such a case.
Thanks,
Alex
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Hi guys. Just wondering if anybody at Bryston is mucking about with Manic Moose.? I can no longer get Artist view to work, thumbnails aren’t working and I can no longer get album info.
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Good Day Alex:
I have successfully been using a Marantz 7012 (two triggers) with the BR-20 on the second set of RCA inputs. You need to enter the HTB mode once, then when you choose that input BR-20 remembers setting.
One sub is connected to second pair of XLR outputs, first pair is connected to 5B ST. (important that both outputs (L+R) are connected don't use just one output on BR-20).
I used a SPL meter from Radio Shack to set levels on 7012 and BR-20 in HTB. Levels stay constant for front L+R channel. How does is sound well amazing. Reviewers are much more eloquent in their descriptions and they aren't wrong. The 7012 powers my 4 Dolby Atmos speakers. Its important to know Atmos speakers have even a more limited frequency range so you really don't need bryston amps powering that (I tested with 5 channel old Rotel I had and no difference)
My point of reference I had a BDA 3 via a Lumin U1 mini connected to the 7012 with a 3Bsst2 on pre outs (at time) and felt it was missing something in stereo (Have Paradigm Studio 100 v3). When compared to a friend with a BDA2 with similar Paradigm speakers (monitor 11 v3). Outlaw preamp with bryston 6b sst2. Boy was I right the moment I heard BR-20 in stereo with my gear was looking to make sure the surround gear wasn't on. Dogs are finnally not looking around room anymore when listening to well recorded music. Took Bryston some time to sort out HTB which left me grumpy, but since resolved so happy with purchase.
The BR-20 triggers my 5Bst and the sub connected to it. The 7012 triggers another power amp for rear channels and the 2nd sub. Living in Ontario always mindful of hydro use.
Getting rid of hum was a chore and wound up rewiring a dedicated 15 amp plug to 20 amp (Wire, Breaker and plug) then got creative with a Power Conditioner with two generic power bars like you find in labs (no breakers). Last bit of hum was actually a Lutron dimmer that was rated for LED being replaced with a switch. The last bit of hum on Rega turntable was resolved when connected to smart power bar from APC (removed manual ground wire) (both plugs and USB ports can be turned on and off remotely). That feed cooling fans on 7012 and 5B ST for louder listening sessions. The 7012 gets just as warm with speakers connected as not so hope to replace with a Home Theater pre amp someday when it gives up ghost. Have had people drop-by that have spent 4 5 times what I have and they are impressed with sound I have for a 1/3 of price or less.
By no means a rich person with limitless budget
Thanks Bryston and Brian Russell (RIP) who had this idea.
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Hi guys. Just wondering if anybody at Bryston is mucking about with Manic Moose.? I can no longer get Artist view to work, thumbnails aren’t working and I can no longer get album info.
They’re concentrating their efforts on a new OS, so I highly doubt it.
Email Chris@bryston if you need help. He’s the expert. ( crice@bryston.com)
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Good Day Alex:
I have successfully been using a Marantz 7012 (two triggers) with the BR-20 on the second set of RCA inputs. You need to enter the HTB mode once, then when you choose that input BR-20 remembers setting.
One sub is connected to second pair of XLR outputs, first pair is connected to 5B ST. (important that both outputs (L+R) are connected don't use just one output on BR-20).
I used a SPL meter from Radio Shack to set levels on 7012 and BR-20 in HTB. Levels stay constant for front L+R channel. How does is sound well amazing. Reviewers are much more eloquent in their descriptions and they aren't wrong. The 7012 powers my 4 Dolby Atmos speakers. Its important to know Atmos speakers have even a more limited frequency range so you really don't need bryston amps powering that (I tested with 5 channel old Rotel I had and no difference)
My point of reference I had a BDA 3 via a Lumin U1 mini connected to the 7012 with a 3Bsst2 on pre outs (at time) and felt it was missing something in stereo (Have Paradigm Studio 100 v3). When compared to a friend with a BDA2 with similar Paradigm speakers (monitor 11 v3). Outlaw preamp with bryston 6b sst2. Boy was I right the moment I heard BR-20 in stereo with my gear was looking to make sure the surround gear wasn't on. Dogs are finnally not looking around room anymore when listening to well recorded music. Took Bryston some time to sort out HTB which left me grumpy, but since resolved so happy with purchase.
The BR-20 triggers my 5Bst and the sub connected to it. The 7012 triggers another power amp for rear channels and the 2nd sub. Living in Ontario always mindful of hydro use.
Getting rid of hum was a chore and wound up rewiring a dedicated 15 amp plug to 20 amp (Wire, Breaker and plug) then got creative with a Power Conditioner with two generic power bars like you find in labs (no breakers). Last bit of hum was actually a Lutron dimmer that was rated for LED being replaced with a switch. The last bit of hum on Rega turntable was resolved when connected to smart power bar from APC (removed manual ground wire) (both plugs and USB ports can be turned on and off remotely). That feed cooling fans on 7012 and 5B ST for louder listening sessions. The 7012 gets just as warm with speakers connected as not so hope to replace with a Home Theater pre amp someday when it gives up ghost. Have had people drop-by that have spent 4 5 times what I have and they are impressed with sound I have for a 1/3 of price or less.
By no means a rich person with limitless budget
Thanks Bryston and Brian Russell (RIP) who had this idea.
Hi bokko,
Thank you for the detailed description of your setup! Picked up a few good tips and ideas therefrom.
How are you selecting the "second set of RCA inputs" on the BR20 when playing through the Marantz 7012? Manually or somehow automatically (Harmony/etc.)?
Or is the BR20 just powering up on the last used input, whichever that might be (in your case the "second set of RCA inputs")?
Alex
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Alex that part I do manually use Bryston remote to select RCA 2.
Then Apple tv remote turns on TV and 7012 automatically. Which is funny as I have HDMI CEC turned off on 7012 and TV yet it works.
https://www.apc.com/us/en/product/PH6U4X32/apc-home-office-surgearrest-6-outlets-3-smart-outlets-with-4-usb-ports-2-smart-ports-120v/ interesting this allowed my Rega TT to no longer need turntable grounding. My phono pre is Gold Note PH-10 with PSU-10. I bought this to turn off turntable and its light as well as cooling fans on 5B as required using Alexa. The last bit of ground noise gone was a bonus. Also have an old Technics connected to PH-10 so know it was Rega why those guys can't ground like everyone else I don't know. Definately wouldn't buy Rega again.
https://www.amazon.ca/Iot-Relay-Enclosed-High-power-Raspberry/dp/B00WV7GMA2 use this to trigger rear channel Adcom amp (paid 25 at Pi shop that didn't survive covid)
Niles now makes a triggered power bar that would be better but out of stock.
Use this to cool the 7012 https://acinfinity.com/component-cooling/component-fan-systems/aircom-t10-receiver-and-av-component-cooling-fan-system-front-exhaust-17/ also connected to APC otherwise the fans can turn on due to heat generated by 5B when listening levels get LOUD.
Jerry
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Hi Folks quick question on the BR-20.
We are having issues getting HDMI boards and Pi computers (used for streaming in the BR-20).
HDMI has always been an Option on the Br-20 and less than 5% of our customers order HDMI.
What if we offered the Pi Streamer as an option as well as a lot of our customers have Streamers as well?
So the BR20 would have the option of a Streamer or HDMI or Phono and priced accordingly.
Thoughts?
james
Hi James,
will this idea be pursued?
Thanks,
Holger
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Hi James,
will this idea be pursued?
Thanks,
Holger
Engineering tells me this would be difficult.
james
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Having the Pi streamer is a good option minus the current challenge where there is a shortage of available parts.
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BR-20 Remote Code Resetting
Push and HOLD the CODE button for 5 FULL seconds. When the white LED starts to blink let go of code and then quickly and firmly push D7, D9, D5 in that order.
You should see the white LED blink twice to say it has accepted the code.
I had to do this after replacing the batteries. Worked fine afterwards.
Cheers
Drew
Going through all BR-20 related posts I strumbled across this one. This might fix the issue I have with my remote. Wouldn't it make sense to collect such hints somewhere in a FAQ on the Bryston homepage? Not everone will re-read the audiocircle posts of 2 years.
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Hi Folks, one of the design features of the BR-20 is the 'modular' construction. This allows the customer to change circuit boards as the technology changes over time.
Here is a picture of the internal circuits boards in our new BR-20.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228791)
James, another interesting statement I just found some minutes ago: is this idea something that will be followed up by your product engineering? I would love to participate jn future enhancements, especially in the digital section. e.g. Bryston developping a new BDA 4 in the future. In such case I would love to get an upgrade offered for a replacement of the current BDA3 based digital section to the new one.
I read statememts about modular approaches 'for future upgrades' in various magazines for different products of other brands over the last years. It was NEVER true in the end. After some time the brands launched new products instead and the older 'upgradable' ones never saw the upgrades. So it always remained a theoretical thing or a sales pitch rather than a design principle.
I would love to read Bryston's thought on this.
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Going through all BR-20 related posts I strumbled across this one. This might fix the issue I have with my remote. Wouldn't it make sense to collect such hints somewhere in a FAQ on the Bryston homepage? Not everone will re-read the audiocircle posts of 2 years.
Hi - yes that makes a lot of sense - I will mention it to our webmaster.
james
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Hi spartana
Yes modular in the sense that service and replacement is easier but you are correct in that a swap out to a new and different part becomes much more complicated. Usually any update like that requires a complete rework of the software and integration with the other parts in the product. Sometimes not an easy task or even doable depending on the changes made in the chips available.
We will certainly try though to make this swap feature available as we go as best we can.
james
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James,
Thanks! What would be the current production time for a BR 20 without HDMI after placing an order?
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HI - I would say allow 8 weeks from order as we are very backordered.
best
james
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HI - I would say allow 8 weeks from order as we are very backordered.
best
james
Ouch! :cry:
On the bright side you at least seem to have the parts to build them. :D
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Ouch! :cry:
On the bright side you at least seem to have the parts to build them. :D
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Hi James
One of the dealer told me BR20 HDMI board is not even on the price list, just wondering is Bryston will not provide the board forever or just temporary out of stock, I considering buy the BR20 but I really need HDMI to connect my PS5 to my stereo system using BR20 DAC, please let me know. Thanks.
Hi Folks quick question on the BR-20.
We are having issues getting HDMI boards and Pi computers (used for streaming in the BR-20).
HDMI has always been an Option on the Br-20 and less than 5% of our customers order HDMI.
What if we offered the Pi Streamer as an option as well as a lot of our customers have Streamers as well?
So the BR20 would have the option of a Streamer or HDMI or Phono and priced accordingly.
Thoughts?
james
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Hi himitus
We are being told that HDMI boards are a least 6 months out. They can be retrofitted if and when they materialize.
best
james
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Hi again,
One thing is not yet clear to me: will the new OS3 be only relevant for the streamer or also replace the BCON (?) Platform?
Thanks
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Hi again,
One thing is not yet clear to me: will the new OS3 be only relevant for the streamer or also replace the BCON (?) Platform?
Thanks
The BCON is a separate board and has its own software.
james
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James, still struggeling a bit between BP26 (with external dac) and BR20. 26 is on the market since ages and still well received. BR 20 the much more modern design. Any recomendation for listeners who live in an appartment and have therefore to listen at lower levels in the evening but want still "the full experience"? I read somewhere the BP26 was much more "pushy" and wonder if that worked out well in my situation. Still I lean a bit more towards the all analogue design with external dac that can be replaced every now and then when digital technology changes.
Also: is any of the two units more / less preferable in case of less audiophile recordings? Not all my music is "audiophile". So I am asking if any of the two is more "forgiving" than the other.
Thanks
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As per my PM I love my BR20 which IMHO beats the BP26 easily. I had a home demo of the BP-26 and liked it but when I tried the BR-20 I knew that was the keeper. When the BR-20 was 1st released there were a lot of issues but SQ was not one of them. Since that time the issues have been fixed with the exception of Manic Moose which still manages to give me palpitations at times but as I’ve said nothing to do with SQ.
The BR-20 along with the 4B3 is simply the very best amplifier combo I’ve ever heard and as I used to work in HiFi retail I’ve heard a few.
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Clive,
Thanks. Valuable insights indeed!
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BP-26 vs BR-20
Assuming you are not choosing the BP- 26 vs the BR-20 based on features or types of inputs then I think the sound differences are distinguishable. This is just my opinion of course (and I have been wrong before!)
The BP-26 has a more forward soundstage and is punchier in the mid bass. The dynamics are well presented and the differences between loud and soft are well delineated. The 26 can sound a touch bright on certain material due to the more forward presentation but a lot depends on the auxiliary gear. It has a ‘pure analog’ signal path. The BP-26 is fully differentially balanced on the XLR inputs but is single ended through the preamp and then re-balanced on the XLR outputs. The voltage out on the BP26 is about 30 volts so the ability to drive power amps with ease is one of its main attributes. I think if you like a forward more in the room affect you will enjoy the BP-26.
The BR-20 soundstage moves further back and more to the sides of the speakers. So, the soundstage is more expansive. The BR-20 has better micro resolution so the ‘spaces’ between the notes and the resolution of those silent spaces are better rendered. The bass is well defined and the separation of different bass instruments etc. are more defined and detailed. There is an ease and fluidity about the sound that draws you into the music. The accuracy of signal flow is better in the BR-20 which is obvious when looking at the measurements. Lastly the main difference is the BR-20 is a ‘fully balanced’ circuit design throughout which offers several benefits when it comes to providing as accurate a signal path as possible. I think if you like a more tonally balanced presentation you will prefer the BR-20.
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Thanks, James. Helps a lot! Have a nice sunday!
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James, I couldn’t have said that better and I totally agree with you. I love the fully balanced sound of the BR-20 which matches beautifully with the 4B3. A very smooth and insightful combination.
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:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
James - I read somewhere that PI 4 is almost impossible to get. Did you switch to another version in the meantime?
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Hi - We had some in stock and purchased some a month or so back - so OK so far but not sure for how long - 'get-em while they last ' :lol:
Oh and I should mention they have increased in price 10 fold if you can find any.
james
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Hi - We had some in stock and purchased some a month or so back - so OK so far but not sure for how long - 'get-em while they last ' :lol:
Oh and I should mention they have increased in price 10 fold if you can find any.
james
Hm. crazy times. Who would have thought 2 years back that availability of PI's could ever be a problem. Maybe going back to the idea of having a BR20 without streamer? So BR20-s? :wink:
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Hi - we can not really do the BR20 without streamer as the software would have to change.
james
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Hi James,
Which Raspberry PI 4 is used? I would like to try getting a spare one - just in case. 2 GB, 4 GB or 8 GB RAM? Anything else to consider or are all the PI computers the same as long as e.g. PI4 with 8 GB?
Thanks
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Hi James,
Which Raspberry PI 4 is used? I would like to try getting a spare one - just in case. 2 GB, 4 GB or 8 GB RAM? Anything else to consider or are all the PI computers the same as long as e.g. PI4 with 8 GB?
Thanks
Engineering tells me any Pi4 should work.
james
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Hi James
I think the question asked by Spartana was what RAM is on the Raspberry PI 4B in the BR-20, 2Gb, 4Gb or 8Gb because he want to buy a spare PI 4?
Then I would ask if the PI 4B can actually be swapped out by an end user.
Clive197
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Ah sorry 4GB
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Hi James,
I noticed when multi-zone streaming an album with Roon and I mute the audio on the BR-20 all works as it should.... the album keeps playing the remaining songs and the BR-20 remains muted. At the end of the album Roon will start playing random songs of similar music and it is at this point the BR-20 un-mutes without operator input. Re-mute it and it will again unmute with the next random song selection. Roon must be doing this! Given the BR-20 has not muted Roon for all zones and only itself I dont think it should un-mute based on a Roon command. I am usually on the phone!
There is a second similar Roon BR-20 quirk. Switch the BR-20 to another digital input and Roon will switch it back to the streaming input on the start of Roon play or the next song selection as per above! In a multi room setup this is not always appreciated.
These are small issues in the grand scheme of things, but Roon is asserting its control over the BR-20, outside of intended operation. Welcome to the ever changing world of software!
Cheers Drew
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HI Drew - yes changes all the time - I hear tomorrow is another major change coming.
I will forward to Chris Rice for you.
james
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Hi James,
I noticed when multi-zone streaming an album with Roon and I mute the audio on the BR-20 all works as it should.... the album keeps playing the remaining songs and the BR-20 remains muted. At the end of the album Roon will start playing random songs of similar music and it is at this point the BR-20 un-mutes without operator input. Re-mute it and it will again unmute with the next random song selection. Roon must be doing this! Given the BR-20 has not muted Roon for all zones and only itself I dont think it should un-mute based on a Roon command. I am usually on the phone!
There is a second similar Roon BR-20 quirk. Switch the BR-20 to another digital input and Roon will switch it back to the streaming input on the start of Roon play or the next song selection as per above! In a multi room setup this is not always appreciated.
These are small issues in the grand scheme of things, but Roon is asserting its control over the BR-20, outside of intended operation. Welcome to the ever changing world of software!
Cheers Drew
I'm not sure about the second item as I think if you don't want the br20 to play you should either remove the br20 from the multi zone list or create a new multi zone without the device. Our options for resolving the second option are either pause/stop playback or switch back to the streaming input. The first item does sound like unintended behavior, the intended behavior is to unmute the system if you begin playback.
Chris
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Thanks Chris
Yes I understand the second item is a convenience factor and can also be considered a feature. Just a mater of perspective and desired use.
Cheers Drew
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With both RCA input for HTB and the XLR input for turntable preamp I have noticed Roon Streamer will switch from those inputs starting to playback on streamer input. I just started pressing pause on remote before moving to another input.
No further problems
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Open question on the BR-20. I am having, and it seems to have there since I received it, weird behavior with the front panel lights and buttons. Some examples:
- turn the unit on, Source 4 (CD)selected, lights all green, press play on CD player, no sound, press play again, sound
- turn the unit on, any source selected from previous session, all lights red. Source plays fine. Press source button, lights turn green and no sound. Press source a couple of times (sometimes away from true source and back), sound
- finishing playing play source 4 (CD), change CD's, don't touch BR-20. No sound. Repeat above drills to get sound back.
This whole scenario repeats for source 10 (USB).
Roon works fine evertime.
I believe I am on the latest SW (u202204a)
Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated. This is annoying yet not a show stopper as I really enjoy the device sound.
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I’ve been using a BDP-2 for many years with my music stored on a powered (plug in) external hard drive connected via USB. I’ve now moved to a BR-20 and looking to get a new hard drive (2TB).
Does anyone know if the USB on the BR-20 has enough power to operate the hard drive on its own?
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Hi
Be careful with that as it will depend a lot on the power consumption of a large 2TB drive.
We highly recommend a NAS for large libraries.
james
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I’ve been using a BDP-2 for many years with my music stored on a powered (plug in) external hard drive connected via USB. I’ve now moved to a BR-20 and looking to get a new hard drive (2TB).
Does anyone know if the USB on the BR-20 has enough power to operate the hard drive on its own?
Does the manual tell you max current available from usb? Just check the HD specs and that should tell you what it will draw.
I use a 1TB ssd on the BDA-3.14 and there’s absolutely no issues
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A new anomaly.
My BR20 is telling me I have no internet connection. I have, currently listening via Qobuz!!!!!!!!!!!
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Further to yesterday’s post I’ve now reset my router, reset my BR-20, rebooted my iPad, checked my Ethernet connect and checked my internet speed which is a healthy 68Mbps but my BR-20 still insists that I do not have an internet connection. Something is not right!
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Hi Clive - where is it telling you no connection?
james
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Hi James
On the home page of Manic Moose above the row of settings in box in centre screen. It used to say BR-20 in nominal state (or words to such effect)
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Strange - never seen that before - send Chris an email on it - crice@bryston.com
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Ye-ha. BR20 at Nominal Operation. Very curious.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=246115)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=247044)
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Hello my brand new BR-20 reports the following info:
- Bryston BR-20
- Firmware: u202103i
- Bootloader: 0.1
- Audio Interface: usb-shared
shall I upgrade the firmware?
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Hello my brand new BR-20 reports the following info:
- Bryston BR-20
- Firmware: u202103i
- Bootloader: 0.1
- Audio Interface: usb-shared
shall I upgrade the firmware?
you're not on the most current version. are you having any issues?
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you're not on the most current version. are you having any issues?
I am just familiarizing with it and taming the Mule :wink:, it's brand new.
Is BR20_2022_04c.bin the latest version?
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Is BR20_2022_04c.bin the latest version?
Anybody can help? I saw back in the thread that in April Adam Tanner was advising for a firmware update but on http://support.bryston.com/downloads/BR-20/firmware/ it seems the latest is BR20_2022_04c.bin released on May 26th, so I just wanted to be sure.
Thanks in advance!
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Ok firmware upgrade done! Thank you Bryston guys :thumb:
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Hi All, how about a "Bryston BR-20 Frequently Asked Questions" thread?
I have one: which file systems are supported for USB drives? exFAT, NTFS, APFS, HFS+? Any preferred one?
What about the folder structure? Is it better to put all album folders in the root or it doesn't matter? Any best practice?
Thanks!
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I recently picked up a BR-20 and can't get the streamer working at all.
-If I switch to the streamer input, the 'lock' light flashes red on and off and that is it.
-If I choose 'streamer info' from the setup menu I get a message that says "IP NOT FOUND!."
-I cannot connect to it via ethernet, although I was able to connect to it once a few days ago.
Has anyone had similar issues, and can offer advice? I just got the unit last week and am really looking forward to getting working. I've reached out to Bryston support via the website, but haven't heard back yet.
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Which music service are you using? I guess you connected to the network using a cable and plugged it into the “streaming internet” port, correct?
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It sounds like a Network issues but email Adam - atanner@bryston.com
james
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Which music service are you using? I guess you connected to the network using a cable and plugged it into the “streaming internet” port, correct?
My intention is to use roon and/or the Bryston software, but I haven’t made it far enough along for that to even be relevant. I have cables in both ports, but tried just a cable in the streaming port as well.
It sounds like a Network issues but email Adam - atanner@bryston.com
james
Will do James.
Thanks all!
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I have cables in both ports, but tried just a cable in the streaming port as well.
I read somewhere here i the forum that only one port should be plugged in meaning you plug the network cable in the SVC Ethernet OR in the Streaming Ethernet port.
Good luck!
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Adam helped me get it all sorted. Everything is working well now. Very pleased!
I read somewhere here i the forum that only one port should be plugged in meaning you plug the network cable in the SVC Ethernet OR in the Streaming Ethernet port.
Good luck!
Adam confirmed this. Although you can connect both Ethernet ports at the same time it's not necessary and can be somewhat detrimental as they share resources.
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which file systems are supported for USB drives? exFAT, NTFS, APFS, HFS+? Any preferred one?
What about the folder structure? Is it better to put all album folders in the root or it doesn't matter? Any best practice?
Thanks!
Anyone knows?
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Hi James,
I found my BR-20's remote control not working last night, I tried replace the battery problem persists, is it the remote needs reprogram or just die?
Thanks.
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BR-20 Remote Code
Push and HOLD the CODE button for 5 FULL seconds. When the white LED starts to blink let go of code and then quickly and firmly push D7, D9, D5 in that order.
You should see the white LED blink twice to say it has accepted the code.
I had to do this after replacing the batteries. Worked fine afterwards.
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Been awhile things have just been working the odd power pull but not as often after last update.
I now use my old iPhone XR for Apple Music this allows me to control apple music from my apple watch. Little inconvenient if phone rings for Facetime but livable.
Reason for posting my old iPad 2 circa 2014 is not always syncing with USB input but without power pull my iPhone syncs fine. Lock goes red or song skips occasionally.
Started after latest apple update.
Anyone else have this? Probably time to pull trigger on new one...
Edit
iPad doesn’t like my new wifi access point, put up old access point and its working again.
Final fix was upgrade to u2022.11a
Back to the music
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BR-20 Remote Code
Push and HOLD the CODE button for 5 FULL seconds. When the white LED starts to blink let go of code and then quickly and firmly push D7, D9, D5 in that order.
You should see the white LED blink twice to say it has accepted the code.
I had to do this after replacing the batteries. Worked fine afterwards
It works perfect after enter the code, thanks.
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I am still having problems with volume when using the BR-20 with Roon. I thought the last software update fixed the problem, but that is not the case.
Yesterday I had a situation where I could not control the volume with either Room Remote or using the volume knob on the BR-20. The volume just kept increasing. This is a dangerous situation for both ones ears and speakers. I have the volume limited in Roon because of this.
This is a serious bug. I hope Bryston is working on it.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=249619)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=249620)
Make sure in ROON you have FIXED VOLUME selected and NOT Device Volume.
You want fixed volume because when you use the device volume you are loosing BITs as you reduce the volume.
Always use the BR20 remote volume control unit to adjust level never the sliding device control.
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Thanks for that James.
I have been running my BDA 3.14 that way with fixed volume for that very reason since I got it. However, when it came to my BR-20 I just stuck with the defaults and assumed that the volume control was done in the Preamp portion rather than the DAC simply as the volume knob and display went up and down at the same time.
Regards
Stuart
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How do I get to the "device setup" page? I looked in the BR-20 dashboard and can't find it.
Also, are you saying I shouldn't control the volume using the Roon GUI on my phone or computer?
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Hi
The Device Setup is on the ROON setup page.
james
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Also, are you saying I shouldn't control the volume using the Roon GUI on my phone or computer?
No, for best sound quality the software volume control should be disabled. When you setup the output device, "fixed" should be an option, and that will sound best.
If Roon is just playing background music at a party then software volume control is fine and certainly convenient. But for critical listening, in a resolving system, it will not sound as good as passing the unadulterated signal through to a preamp with a real analogue attenuator.
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hello
may i know where can buy br20 in LA?
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hello
may i know where can buy br20 in LA?
Hi Lion - email our VP in the US and he will help - Bryston - dkakenmaster@bryston.com
james
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hello
may i know where can buy br20 in LA?
https://bryston.com/dealer-locator/
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Any comments on the best way to listen to music using the BR20?
NAS HD vs USB HD direct connection to BR20?
Tidal streaming vs harddrive?
Manic Moose vs Roon?
Thanks
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Any comments on the best way to listen to music using the BR20?
NAS HD vs USB HD direct connection to BR20?
Tidal streaming vs harddrive?
Manic Moose vs Roon?
Thanks
1/ NAS. Potentially bigger library. I’ve tried both and found difficulty telling the difference in SQ.
2/ Harddrive.
3/ Difficult one this. Manic Moose is free and you pay a substantial amount for Roon. Probably worth waiting for OS3 and then make a decision.
On a personal note, I don’t like Roon but a lot of people swear by it, so you pays your money makes your own choice.
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Never tried manic Moose. Tried Roon but think it is too expensive. I use Minim Server on my Nas and the Bubble upnp app. The app costs a few bucks and works flawlessly. No idea why anyone would wait for something else.
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Hi,
Just purchased a BR-20 and had a few little issues on initial power up.
My BR-20 was an 11/22 build.
I went to the firmware page to check on the latest firmware and noticed two bin files. 8B and 11a dated March of 2023.
I loaded 8B and followed the update instructions.
My issue seems to be resolved but I want to make sure I'm using the correct bin file.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks,
Sam
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Hi Sam - email Adam to check - atanner@bryston.com
james
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Thanks James
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I've been toying with the thought of getting the BR-20 but would like to know:
Is Sqeezelite still included in the software (and will it be continued in future updates)? On old Manic Moose documentation I've seen it was available on the Services Menu. I would find this very useful indeed as I really rather not go down the Roon road.
Presumably there are no issues with pairing the BR-20 with a 4B SST2 power amp?
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In the admittedly unlikely event that someone else wonders about Squeezelite (and LMS) on the BR-20 and Bryston players, a Bryston dealer whom I've been in contact with has had a reply from Bryston saying that Squeezelite is not supported on the BR-20 and once OS3 replaces Manic Moose it will be no longer supported on any Bryston player.
It is understandable as Squeezelite is associated with a system that went out of production some 11 years ago.
(The irony is that LMS has been since been developed further and has been supported by community developers and. when combined with iPeng on an iPad it is a very good interface.)
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I apologise if this has been already covered but it strikes me that the potential weakness of the BR-20 is the SD card, that is as far as long term is concerned (and Bryston products have a reputation for long term durability.). Is it possible for those who are used to doing such things to remove the SD card to do create a backup copy as a failsafe and then replace the card? Or does that break any warranty on the product?
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Definitely long durability! I’m been using a bdp2 for ages with no problems
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I apologise if this has been already covered but it strikes me that the potential weakness of the BR-20 is the SD card, that is as far as long term is concerned (and Bryston products have a reputation for long term durability.). Is it possible for those who are used to doing such things to remove the SD card to do create a backup copy as a failsafe and then replace the card? Or does that break any warranty on the product?
Hi John,
no need to remove the sd card to get a copy of the firmware, we make images available on our support page at support.bryston.com
http://support.bryston.com/downloads/BDP/Manic%20Moose%20Sources%20R4.pdf
This document typically gets updated whenever we update the images.
Chris
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Hi,
Any chance of someone explaining how the up sampling (UPS) on the BR-20 works?
Not sure how it's engaged.
I see the inputs mentioned in the manual. I have a Bluesound Node Streamer on one of the S/PDIF inputs but have never seen this light on.
How do I engage up sampling?
I'm sure I'm missing something really simple.
Any help appreciated.
Sam
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Sam, in the past you press the upsample button on the BR2 remote. I don’t know how that works with the BR4 remote.
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Sam, in the past you press the upsample button on the BR2 remote. I don’t know how that works with the BR4 remote.
No button on the remote...
There's a phase button.
Thanks for the information.
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Hi John,
no need to remove the sd card to get a copy of the firmware, we make images available on our support page at support.bryston.com
http://support.bryston.com/downloads/BDP/Manic%20Moose%20Sources%20R4.pdf
This document typically gets updated whenever we update the images.
Chris
Thanks Chris, that's very helpful indeed.
My BR-20 is due to arrive next week.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252999)
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Hi Folks - got this just now - 2 AWARDS in one day !!!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=253002)
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Hi,
I would like to try DSD256 on a USB SSD on the BR-20 to see how it sounds.
Any suggestions on an SSD drive?
Brand?
Speed? Does it matter?
Does it need to be powered if all I have plugged into the USB ports is the SSD drive?
From the manual the BR-20 will automatically scan the drive and I'll be able to use the built in player to play the files. Accurate?
Any pitfalls I need to be looking for?
Thanks for any information and suggestions.
Sam
Update:
Loaded an album on a SSD.
DSD 4X=Yellow
Source1=Yellow
Lock=Flashing Red
Not sure why Lock light is flashing red.
Seems to be playing in at the proper resolution.
Sounds Fantastic!
Any help appreciated.
Update:
Powered up today and it’s working fine.
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Hi,
I would like to try DSD256 on a USB SSD on the BR-20 to see how it sounds.
Any suggestions on an SSD drive?
Brand?
Speed? Does it matter?
Does it need to be powered if all I have plugged into the USB ports is the SSD drive?
From the manual the BR-20 will automatically scan the drive and I'll be able to use the built in player to play the files. Accurate?
Any pitfalls I need to be looking for?
Thanks for any information and suggestions.
Sam
Update:
Loaded an album on a SSD.
DSD 4X=Yellow
Source1=Yellow
Lock=Flashing Red
Not sure why Lock light is flashing red.
Seems to be playing in at the proper resolution.
Sounds Fantastic!
Any help appreciated.
i wasn't able to find the specs, but i recall james saying that the usb port can put out about 500ma -- not very much. if you're going to connect an ssd, i would power it independently (even though it seems to work without one). of course, with a thumb drive you could just plug it in and go (it would just be slower, but could handle dsd).
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i wasn't able to find the specs, but i recall james saying that the usb port can put out about 500ma -- not very much. if you're going to connect an ssd, i would power it independently (even though it seems to work without one). of course, with a thumb drive you could just plug it in and go (it would just be slower, but could handle dsd).
Working fine today.
Thanks for the input.
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Just a quick question. How are we doing with Manic Moose’s replacement?
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Hi,
I'm trying to get the HDMI board for my BR-20 but the dealer told me still not available, I've been waiting for almost a year, just wondering Bryston won't supply the board only or need to ship the whole unit to Bryston for installation?
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Hi
The boards we get from MDS and they tell us end of July.
james
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Hi
The boards we get from MDS and they tell us end of July.
james
Thanks James.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252999)
Hi James,
I can only ever see the first page of these types of postings. Where can I find the full length format?
Thanks,
Evan
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Hi Evan - Have to email me and subscribe to the Newsletter.
james
jamestanner@bryston.com
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Thanks! Will do.
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Good day, all,
New user on this forum, and also new to the Bryston world, having recently acquired a previously owned BR-20 and 2.5B/3. As a new user here I'm restricted from searching for answers regarding the BR-20 until my post count reaches 3, so here goes -
I've already updated the BR-20's firmware to version u2022.11a, and S2.45.
Previous owner set up various input names and associations to the IR control buttons. I would like to simply reset all the names back to the factory defaults.
Using the volume knob, I navigate to Global Setting, then to Factory Reset. Next options are "DFLT USER EEPROM", "USB MSD CTR PORT", and "BCON FACTORY RST". These options differ a bit from what is shown in the paper manual. Is "BCON FACTORY RESET" what I need to choose to reset the input names to factory defaults?
Many thanks,
Dan
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Hi
Newbie here but long time Bryston fan. Original 4b from 1980s, original 1b pre from early 90s. So far my listening is vinyl and CDs.
But, taking the plunge, I have a brand new 4b3, and will be getting a BR-20 (with phono) in a week!
So, this will be my first digital streamer as well. I am new to digital and will be using Tidal or Qbozz as opposed to stored music on a hard drive (for now, I ues I will begin burning my CD collection to a drive).
My question is streaming on the BR 20. I have no ethernet wiring in my house so I will be using high speed internet coupled to WIFI 6 (ax).
I am thinking of getting a WIFI extension node, putting it close to the BR 20, and running an ethernet cable from the node to the BR20. My wifi nodes are Netgear.
Will this work? Any suggestions?
I have read that Bryston does not recommend a plug-in usb wifi dongle because it saps power from the usb ports and may create interference?
Would my use of the wifi node about two feet away from the BR20 be a better solution?
If this will work I will buy the wifi node and have it set up and ready when the BR20 arrives.
Thanks for any help.
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Another option would be Netgear Powerline modules. My Bryston equipment is nowhere near any ethernet wiring, so I connected a powerline module to my router and then plugged another one directly (no extension or surge protector) in to an electrical outlet near my Bryston and ran a short ethernet cable from the Bryston to the local powerline connector. It has worked well for me for several years. YMMV
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Hi
Newbie here but long time Bryston fan. Original 4b from 1980s, original 1b pre from early 90s. So far my listening is vinyl and CDs.
But, taking the plunge, I have a brand new 4b3, and will be getting a BR-20 (with phono) in a week!
So, this will be my first digital streamer as well. I am new to digital and will be using Tidal or Qbozz as opposed to stored music on a hard drive (for now, I ues I will begin burning my CD collection to a drive).
My question is streaming on the BR 20. I have no ethernet wiring in my house so I will be using high speed internet coupled to WIFI 6 (ax).
I am thinking of getting a WIFI extension node, putting it close to the BR 20, and running an ethernet cable from the node to the BR20. My wifi nodes are Netgear.
Will this work? Any suggestions?
I have read that Bryston does not recommend a plug-in usb wifi dongle because it saps power from the usb ports and may create interference?
Would my use of the wifi node about two feet away from the BR20 be a better solution?
If this will work I will buy the wifi node and have it set up and ready when the BR20 arrives.
Thanks for any help.
I, too, do not have an ethernet connection. However, I use a "bridge" connected to my BDP3, and it has never given me a problem. I also have a bridge connected to my BDP2 in my bedroom and likewise, never had a problem.
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Hi James,
Has the HT bypass been resolved with the software udpate?
Thanks.
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Home Theater Bypass works fine for me.
Use the RCA 2 input to a Marantz 7012.
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Dammit
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OK, have my wifi extender set up, have my audiophile ethernet cable, and waiting for the BR-20 to arrive.
Thanks everyone for their responses, and I saw in the newsletter area that James recommended exactly the same set-up!
Next question: adding streaming services.
It seems that MM has Tidal and Quboz embedded in it and I can set up those services within the BR-20/MM operating system.
But, I am a heavy classical listener. How do I add Apple Classical (the best classical streaming service out there), and other streamers like Idagio and Presto? Can MM add these just like adding apps to my phone?
Or, would I need to get Roon and set up all of my streaming channels in Roon? Do I need any hardware for Roon that is not in the BR-20? (remember, just streaming services for now, no connected stored music library).
If not these ideas don't work, how do I stream these channels in high res to the BR-20? Do I need an external device like an Ipad? Hardwired to the BR-20 or connected via wifi? Will I lose quality connecting that way?
Appreciate any help on these basics.
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With BR-20 you can turn on airplay then connect via your iPad that would get you CD-Quality on anything you play on iPad. At least with my iPad from 2014.
Now with a USB adapter you purchase from apple that allows you adapt your TYPE B usb connector on back of BR-20 to Type A connector (standard printer cable) on that adapter with lightning pass through. Was purchased for my camera years ago so nice to serve a double duty.
Now people use this connection for Apple Music, James and others have posted about that.
Have used that successfully myself.
I now use Qobuz with my iPad Air 2 circa 2014 which is just fast enough for this or Roon Remote.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258324)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258326)
Good Luck
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OK, just picked up a 2020 ipad pro. I can connect via usb-c on the ipad to either the usb-b ports on the BR-20, or the USB-Audio port. I have adapter cables for either.
Or, I can stream wirelessly through my wifi network that is connected via ethernet to the BR-20 (this ipad does wifi6 so should have plenty of speed).
Apple Classical, Idagio and Presto all have apps.
My question is, since I have to divide my apps between Manic Moose (which only embeds Tidal and Quboz) and the Ipad for the rest of the apps, am I just better off putting Tidal and Quboz on the Ipad as well and using the iPad as the streaming source instead of MM?
Will there be reduced sound quality compared to the streaming circuits built into the BR 20?
I hope James can offer some insight here since you said he uses a similar set-up.
Thanks!
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I use the IPAD with all the deferent streaming apps.
Also from a performance standpoint download your favorite songs and albums on to the IPAD and then you have a solid state hard-drive direct to your BR20 as the source.
Also if you have a USB C to HDMI cable try that and see what you think of the sound vs USB.
james
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Thanks James!
Does the BR-20 have HDMI-in? Mine is on the way but will not have the HDMI card.
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No HDMI inputs without the HDMI card.
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Thanks James!
Does the BR-20 have HDMI-in? Mine is on the way but will not have the HDMI card.
Its an option.
james
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Its an option.
james
HI james,
I still not be able to order the HDMI card :cry:
Keith
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We get a few each month.
james
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Hi James
Can the HDMI card be installed by a local dealer (South Florida, US) or does it need to be returned to Bryston?
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Hi James
I am going to take your advice and download some high-res recordings to the Ipad.
Does the BR-20 process DXD files? I see there are more and more companies offering this format, which is supposed to be the actual studio original master format.
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Hi - I know it does DSD so I assume it would do DXD.
Don't get hung up on the different formats - the Mastering is the number one contributor to quality music.
james
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Chris Baldock
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258016)
Let me tell you how much I’m loving the Bryston BR-20 preamp, especially the ease of streaming to it.
When I first set it up on the long weekend in September I was listening to my old collection of CDs and vinyl.
Once connected to the network in late September, streaming was as easy as enabling Shareport.
Then I could connect my iPad to stream Spotify to it from anywhere in the house.
It’s limited to 44k (CD quality), but maybe an HD service is in the future.
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Chris Baldock
I could connect my iPad to stream Spotify to it from anywhere in the house.
It’s limited to 44k (CD quality), but maybe an HD service is in the future.
I agree on everything but… since when Spotify is CD quality? I know they have plans for that but still no official announcements. I think he should try Qobuz to exploit the full BR-20 streaming capabilities.
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Placed my order today for a BR20 with phono :D
A question if I may, I have a number of dvd-audio discs, what are others using for a player?
The choices seem to be a used Oppo of any flavour or Sony 800 or 1000 series player either new or used
Thanks
Derek
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Derek I use a Sony UBP-X800M2 connected to HDMI 1 on my BR-20, it plays SACD, DVD, DVD-Audio, Blu-ray Stereo as 2ch/ stereo. (Tested).
Sure 4k Bluray audio would be fine but don't own any disks.
Just make sure to default to stereo tracks in setup menus on Sony or connect BR-20 HDMI Out to extra input on TV and change to 2 channel audio as required for disks.
One of my go to disks for years has been Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds at Radio City Music hall now on Blu-ray.
Sound pretty damn great 5.1 with BR20 in Home Theater Bypass, though stereo approaches 5.1 with right system.
The Blu-Ray of Rush 2112 is pretty awesome as well if you like that band
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Thanks for the response
And yes big Rush fan most of their 40th anniversary box sets have blu-rays included
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Derek noticed you mentioned you were ordering BR20 with phono.
So tested the Sony with DVD-Audio on SPDIF, I had to go in audio setup menu on Sony force digital audio to PCM (from auto) (which affects HDMI/SACD wouldn't matter to you)
Then limited to 48khz on Digital out with 96khz/192khz it made ticking sounds if disc defaults to 5.1 audio. BR20 supports PCM only not Bitstream which was cause of ticking sounds.
The above settings allowed three disks to play fine but they didn't sound right until I forced stereo audio. (of course)
The BR20 only supports PCM so audio was bitstream being send.
Jerry
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Thanks again
Awaiting my build
Can’t wait
Derek
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OK, I am hooked up, have activated Tidal and signed to Tidal through MM
I have the BR 20 directly connected via Ethernet cable to a wifi6 node.
I have selected a new recording with MAX quality on Tidal. According to Tidal, max quality is up to 24 bit/194 hz.
I have set the BR/MM setting to "lossless". But, when I stream it, MM shows me a bit rate of less than 1 ups. This is far less than I was expecting. Also, the bit rate display on MM shows it varies between
MM shows me sample rate of 44,100:16:2. The bitrate varies constantly with the music but never gets over 1000 Kbs.
On the front of the BR20, the 44.1K light is on. Also, the "lock" light is on. And, I cannot adjust the volume via the pre-amp but must do so from within MM
So I am not getting anything close to 192.
Am I missing something? Is there some internal mystery setting on the BR20 I need to adjust? Something on Tidal? Should I connect my iPad directly to the BR20 with a USB C to A cable?
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I have my new-to-me BR 20 configured the same way; hardwired ethernet, and the full boat Tidal subscription. MM set to lossless.
I routinely see a bit rate of just under 1K and don't think that's an issue. But, like you, what I don't see is a sampling rate over 44.1K, even if Tidal is showing a particular track at 192K. I've also tried BRadio and some of the 192K selections there and the 20 is still locked on at 44.1.
Oddly, when I first received the 20 (I'm the 2nd owner), the first thing I did was set it up on my desk and connected it to my router (but not to my system) to play around with it and get it set up. I'm almost certain I saw it lock onto BRadio 192K selections. Then downloaded and installed the latest BR20 software and MM versions, moved it into my system, and haven't seen it lock onto 192K since.
So, still scratching my head. But still, even at 44.1, oh boy does it sound good.
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I updated the firmware when I received mine as well. It is running the latest.
I subscribed to qobuz and I'm getting the higher sampling rates (up to 96). Sounds much better than the Tidal.
So, we need to solve the mystery of getting the best out of Tidal.
Also, since Apple Classical is not a built-in option in MM, it seems I may have to directly hardwire the iPad to the BR 20 to use that since I cannot figure out how to stream wirelessly from the iPad to the BR 20.
And although the Tidal sounded good, it does not really sound any better than my CDs. I am also going to get a touslink or S/PDIF cable to send the digital output of my CD directly to the BR 20's DAC. That should equalize everything. Also be interesting if there is an improvement in the sound (right now I am running a Meridian 508 from the early 1990s to the analog inputs of the BR 20).
If anyone can offer advice on these things, please feel free to do so!!
Thanks
I am going to get a CD and find the exact same recording on the streaming services, and that will let me know for sure.
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Bokko, I ordered a Sony ubp x800m2 on Black Friday sale
Now I await my new BR20
James Tanner if you see this post, can you advise on my order status please
Thanks
Derek Barton
Derek noticed you mentioned you were ordering BR20 with phono.
So tested the Sony with DVD-Audio on SPDIF, I had to go in audio setup menu on Sony force digital audio to PCM (from auto) (which affects HDMI/SACD wouldn't matter to you)
Then limited to 48khz on Digital out with 96khz/192khz it made ticking sounds if disc defaults to 5.1 audio. BR20 supports PCM only not Bitstream which was cause of ticking sounds.
The above settings allowed three disks to play fine but they didn't sound right until I forced stereo audio. (of course)
The BR20 only supports PCM so audio was bitstream being send.
Jerry
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Hi Derek - I know they were waiting for some proprietary parts so should be soon.
james
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258837)
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Thank you James
Can’t wait 😊
Hi Derek - I know they were waiting for some proprietary parts so should be soon.
james
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Hey Bokko, How do you setup HT Bypass?
Graham
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Hey Graham
Make sure firmware is updated contact support@bryston.com if you need help with that.
You must use Pre Out from a Home Theater Receiver (HTR) or Preamp for front Left and Right into one of the Analog inputs either XLR or RCA (don't convert XLR to RCA stick with what HTR outputs). (I am assuming you are already using line outs of BR-20 to stereo power amp and your front left and right speaker wires are already connected to that power amp).
Once connected make sure volume on HTR is turned down low. Then select that analog input you connected HTR to. I use RCA 2 which Bryston would refer to as Single 2 in Dashboard.
You push down code button on remote hold down until light blinks white quickly (5 seconds) then quickly enter D2, D2, D10 on BR-20 remote, the input light you selected should turn red (was green) or pink (was blue). The volume control light will also be at 2 o'clock position. (if it failed you might find one of buttons on remote is stuck down unstick and retry).
You only need to do this one time, once you have converted the selected analog input it will always be HTR Bypass until you reset unit. If you connect a fixed output device like a CD-Player to that input you will likely blow speakers, if you don't give someone in house a heart attack SO BE CAREFUL.
You can undo HTR Bypass by selecting the analog input you converted and repeating the Code 220 until input light reverts and volume control lowers from 2 o'clock position.
FYI sometimes need to redo after a firmware update. Bryston firmware update instructions will be clear on that make sure to follow to letter for the version of firmware you are updating (instructions are in same directory as firmware).
Then select an active input on HTR, increase volume slowly and you will have sound.
I highly recommend you output some test tones from the HTR (or use a setup disk) and use a Sound Pressure Meter to adjust volume on different channels so everything is balanced and level. I do not find these setup Mics connected to HTR do a good job of this, its a place to start but not very accurate. I never use the EQ settings of setup mic just the level adjustments. I have had a Radio Shack unit for decades. (buy an expensive Lithium battery if you get one they never leak like regular batteries).
I am using a Marantz 7012 which like many high end units has Pre Out and 7.1 input so confirm connections are Pre-Out Left and Right to selected analog input.
James if you rather people contact you for this info let me now I'll edit post.
I have a 9.1 setup so two pairs of Dolby Atmos speakers in addition to regular 5.1. Some movies and the Br-20 in stereo, really freak the poor dog out, he can't figure out where the sound is coming from. If a dog barking he looses it stops searching and goes upstairs. (Pink Floyd - Animals)
Playing Diablo 4 on TV too, lots of dogs barking in rear surrounds.
Jerry
FYI my first HTR a Denon I bought used, he said the bass was terrible, I updated firmware and proceeded to use my SPL meter to setup channels, bass was -20db it wound up at -3db so much for setup mics. My sub volume or level was about 11 oclock so just under half. Even if his sub was at full level he should have been at -10 to -8.
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Can now BR-20 outputs be configured variable and fixed volume?
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Hi Folks. I received my BR-20 this week. While enjoying its sound, I also have some issues.
I use my BR-20 trigger out to BHA-1 trigger in. The BHA-1 will only be turned on when BR-20 is on some certain inputs, e.g. for Trigger out 1, SPDIF 1, ethernet and a couple of HDMIs can work but SPDIF 2 and others cant. The trigger 1 work on some inputs and trigger 2 work on the others. Is there anyway I can setup triggers according to which inputs I prefer?
Another is the volume control lag. When I use the remote or volume knob, the volume will respond for a couple of dbs and then start lagging. The volume can get stuck for over 20 secs to start responding again. The volume control on "My Bryston" page works okay tho. Do anyone else experience this?
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Hi Folks. I received my BR-20 this week. While enjoying its sound, I also have some issues.
I use my BR-20 trigger out to BHA-1 trigger in. The BHA-1 will only be turned on when BR-20 is on some certain inputs, e.g. for Trigger out 1, SPDIF 1, ethernet and a couple of HDMIs can work but SPDIF 2 and others cant. The trigger 1 work on some inputs and trigger 2 work on the others. Is there anyway I can setup triggers according to which inputs I prefer?
Another is the volume control lag. When I use the remote or volume knob, the volume will respond for a couple of dbs and then start lagging. The volume can get stuck for over 20 secs to start responding again. The volume control on "My Bryston" page works okay tho. Do anyone else experience this?
Hi Melting - please email Adam on this - atanner@bryston.com
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Hi Folks. I received my BR-20 this week. While enjoying its sound, I also have some issues.
I use my BR-20 trigger out to BHA-1 trigger in. The BHA-1 will only be turned on when BR-20 is on some certain inputs, e.g. for Trigger out 1, SPDIF 1, ethernet and a couple of HDMIs can work but SPDIF 2 and others cant. The trigger 1 work on some inputs and trigger 2 work on the others. Is there anyway I can setup triggers according to which inputs I prefer?
Another is the volume control lag. When I use the remote or volume knob, the volume will respond for a couple of dbs and then start lagging. The volume can get stuck for over 20 secs to start responding again. The volume control on "My Bryston" page works okay tho. Do anyone else experience this?
Hi I have the same issue and emailed Adam, but got no response. Have you made any progress with this?
Graham
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Happy new year!
I did a factory reset in the main menu on my BR-20 unit (not through mybryston webpage). This resets all trigger settings and the volume control lag also disappeared
I figured that the volume control lag was due to input name change through the mybryston webpage. A factory reset clears all these changes. If I change the names again, the lag will happen again. I reported this to Adam, and he confirmed that this was an known issue and would be fixed in a coming firmware update.
I hope these work for you!
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Have successfully changed the names of inputs and suffer no input lag on volume.
Make sure you only connect a network cable to the streamer ethernet input. DO NOT connect to SVC Ethernet input it is only to be connected during updates when instructed for that process.
I found it took about 100-125 hours for low bass to return let me know if you notice this.
Enjoy the music
Jerry
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Have successfully changed the names of inputs and suffer no input lag on volume.
Make sure you only connect a network cable to the streamer ethernet input. DO NOT connect to SVC Ethernet input it is only to be connected during updates when instructed for that process.
I found it took about 100-125 hours for low bass to return let me know if you notice this.
Enjoy the music
Jerry
Ah, this make sense. I always left 2 cables plugged in for convenience. I will give it a try.
I didn't notice any thing wrong with the low bass.
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Question to Bryston, what’s happening to the new operating system that’s supposed to replace MM? I’ve been watching this space for ever (well months actually).
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Hi Clive - it is still being worked on but not finished yet.
james
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Thanks for the update James, I am sure it’s not an easy task at all to redesign an OS from scratch! Any new target date to release it?
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Thanks for the update James, I am sure it’s not an easy task at all to redesign an OS from scratch! Any new target date to release it?
Not yet but I know the beta is still being tested.
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Hello Everyone, new BR20 user and member to this post. Where can one find the best documentation on how to use MM?
Vic
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Hi Vic - email Adam - atanner@bryston.com
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Hello, I would like to ask a few questions about some MM features I cannot understand,
hope anybody could help (thanks in advance!):
1) what is this audio device for?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261060)
2) why none of the usb disk command is working? what could be wrong?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261061)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261062)
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The area you are in is to connect to a network drive.
From Dashboard click services, make sure USB mount and MPD are checked and started.
In order to check MPD, Roon Ready must be off. I am no expert though I use Roon to listen to music.
Samba is only used for connecting to a network drive.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261067)
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The area you are in is to connect to a network drive.
From Dashboard click services, make sure USB mount and MPD are checked and started.
In order to check MPD, Roon Ready must be off. I am no expert though I use Roon to listen to music.
Samba is only used for connecting to a network drive.
Thanks, but that part is ok as I enabled the services I need. I do not use roon and I do not use network drives, only a 512gb ssd connected via usb and qobuz.
From time to time I connect my MacBook with Audirvana using the usb-b input and it works even if the “BR-20 audio 2.0” device is disabled. So I was wondering what that deivice was intended for
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Yah sorry that looks like drive mounting and formatting screen my mistake.
Need a bigger phone screen. :duh:
Contact atanner@bryston.com he handles tech support.
USB 2.0 is also off on mine, but I do have USB Mount enabled want to try the replacement for Manic Moose once its released.
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Have successfully changed the names of inputs and suffer no input lag on volume.
Make sure you only connect a network cable to the streamer ethernet input. DO NOT connect to SVC Ethernet input it is only to be connected during updates when instructed for that process.
I found it took about 100-125 hours for low bass to return let me know if you notice this.
Enjoy the music
Jerry
Hi Jerry,
Sorry for slow response, not been on the forum for a while, life getting in the way!
Thanks for tips, curiously I have not had the volume issue since I post the problem on the forum.
Will make the changes now, and see if i get the low bass issue.
Cheers
Graham
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Contact atanner@bryston.com he handles tech support.
USB 2.0 is also off on mine, but I do have USB Mount enabled want to try the replacement for Manic Moose once its released.
Thanks, I just did! Given that nobody replied I am assuming I am the only one with such defects.
By the way I found another unexpected behavior in MM:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261107)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261107)
Update: I am in touch with Adam and he told me that this error is because they are working on the new OS3 so it can be ignored.
I am assuming also the other disk utilities errors can be generated by the fact that MM is way ahead in its sunset.
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hello all,
new to the BR20 I'm connected to my network and all is good except the BR20 sees my 1TB Toshiba drive attached but not the music or at least i can't see the contents on the right hand section of media player, i have a directory called music, then artist, then album,
for example
F:\Music\Beatles\Beatles 1967-1970 CD1
this drive worked on my old BDP-1 but not on the new machine. is there a certain file structure i need to use instead
many thanks in advance
Also Rigelian says no drive connected?
I guess I have to mount the drive and the usb mount is checked off on services, but I have no idea how lol
Derek
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hello all,
new to the BR20 I'm connected to my network and all is good except the BR20 sees my 1TB Toshiba drive attached but not the music or at least i can't see the contents on the right hand section of media player, i have a directory called music, then artist, then album,
for example
F:\Music\Beatles\Beatles 1967-1970 CD1
this drive worked on my old BDP-1 but not on the new machine. is there a certain file structure i need to use instead
many thanks in advance
Also Rigelian says no drive connected?
I guess I have to mount the drive and the usb mount is checked off on services, but I have no idea how lol
Derek
what kind of drive is it? remember that the usb port can generate only 500 ma of current which often isn't enough to power usb-connected drives. bryston recommends only usb thumb drives be connected, otherwise use a nas.
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It is a Toshiba 1TB USB drive and it is the exact drive with the exact files (about 30 albums worth of music) that worked on an old BDP-1 i had.
Logic suggests that it should work on the brand new streamer right?
I have input/advice from Mr Rice at Bryston that i will try later on and report back.
Basically i plug the drive in and it flashes for only a few seconds and isn't updating/indexing the contents
Thanks,
Derek
what kind of drive is it? remember that the usb port can generate only 500 ma of current which often isn't enough to power usb-connected drives. bryston recommends only usb thumb drives be connected, otherwise use a nas.
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It is a Toshiba 1TB USB drive and it is the exact drive with the exact files (about 30 albums worth of music) that worked on an old BDP-1 i had.
Logic suggests that it should work on the brand new streamer right?
I have input/advice from Mr Rice at Bryston that i will try later on and report back.
Basically i plug the drive in and it flashes for only a few seconds and isn't updating/indexing the contents
Thanks,
Derek
not necessarily . . . . the symptom you described certainly seems to lean towards not getting enough power from the usb port.
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if it doesn't work i'll pop the files on a mini stick drive and try that.
Thanks,
not necessarily . . . . the symptom you described certainly seems to lean towards not getting enough power from the usb port.
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Made a call to Bryston, the 2TB drive had locked it up big time
After a few resets it found a 16GB thumb drive and all is well
The largest they recommend is 1TB but were amazed my old BDP1 handled the 2TB
Fantastic service from Bryston
Thanks
if it doesn't work i'll pop the files on a mini stick drive and try that.
Thanks,
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Bryston replaced my BR-20 and new one has been great haven’t had a single crash or power pull since Christmas.
Thanks for making Christmas Merry.
Just purchased a used 4b SST C series. WOW sound quality just went up another level.
Now use the 5b st thx for center and surrounds. The surrounds haven’t sounded that good yet ADP-470’s.
My Studio 100’s have also not sounded this good yet.
Now on USB drives i had success with 1tb WDC Blue m.2 ssd card in an Startech enclosure SM2NGFFMBU33. It is critical you not buy M.2 NVMe. Must be M.2 SSD.
2.5" unclosure Vantec Nexstar 3.1 with a Samsung 850evo 1tb drive. both are 3-4 years old though. The above are available presently.
For larger drives think you are better to purchase a usb enclosure that has a power supply. Cover led with black tape.
Make sure its USB 3 with a type A connector. It needs to support the size drive you plan on putting in.
Ones for 3.5” drives are easier to buy but have seen some for 2.5” drives as well.
Don’t buy special high performance drives they run hot draw more power. I prefer metal or aluminum cases helps with keeping drive cool. With mechanical drives (spinning vs solid state) you have to be careful near bass. (Don’t put on sub) remember its there, if it falls down while spinning…not good.
Maybe we could start a side topic on drive enclosures.
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Bryston replaced my BR-20 and new one has been great haven’t had a single crash or power pull since Christmas.
Thanks for making Christmas Merry.
Just purchased a used 4b SST C series. WOW sound quality just went up another level.
Now use the 5b st thx for center and surrounds. The surrounds haven’t sounded that good yet ADP-470’s.
My Studio 100’s have also not sounded this good yet.
Now on USB drives i had success with 1tb WDC Blue m.2 ssd card in an Startech enclosure SM2NGFFMBU33. It is critical you not buy M.2 NVMe. Must be M.2 SSD.
2.5" unclosure Vantec Nexstar 3.1 with a Samsung 850evo 1tb drive. both are 3-4 years old though. The above are available presently.
For larger drives think you are better to purchase a usb enclosure that has a power supply. Cover led with black tape.
Make sure its USB 3 with a type A connector. It needs to support the size drive you plan on putting in.
Ones for 3.5” drives are easier to buy but have seen some for 2.5” drives as well.
Don’t buy special high performance drives they run hot draw more power. I prefer metal or aluminum cases helps with keeping drive cool. With mechanical drives (spinning vs solid state) you have to be careful near bass. (Don’t put on sub) remember its there, if it falls down while spinning…not good.
Maybe we could start a side topic on drive enclosures.
Wow! That's great! ...
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Picked up a BR20 yesterday. It’s a great match with my 4B3 and Paradigm Personas.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261925)
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Nice, newer versions of my speakers and amp.
hope you get 20+ years out of your speakers.
Know the amp will