AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: tubav on 29 Nov 2019, 04:26 pm
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I'm going to give bypass caps a try to see if I notice a difference. What would be a good value to bypass a 1.5uf tweeter cap? Thanks. tubav
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I'm going to give bypass caps a try to see if I notice a difference. What would be a good value to bypass a 1.5uf tweeter cap? Thanks. tubav
That is a pretty small tweeter cap.
I'd go with a value of .1uF or smaller.
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What would be a good bypass for a 125uf midrange circuit?
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What would be a good bypass for a 125uf midrange circuit?
In most cases like that I would go for a .1uF Gen.2 Sonicap.
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Exactly what is (are) the main purpose(s) of the bypass cap? A) Is it to speed up the delivery of the signal. B) To impart the sonic characteristics of the higher quality bypass cap to the driver. C) A combination of the two. D) And/or other things? I never was clear of it's purposes.
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I'd say it's mostly "a", , they really help leading/trailing edges andhelp create space and separation.
There may be some of "b" going on as well but IMHO, it's not as much as people may think. That being said, different bypass caps of the same values do seem to sound different...
As Danny mentioned, the Sonicap G2's are a great buy and can really help the charge/discharge rates of a large bundle/valued cap. Give somea try and if you like what you hear and don't mind spending a few extra $$'s, try something different and see if you notice any differnce.
jay
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.... can really help the charge/discharge rates of a large bundle/valued cap.
Can you elaborate on this? As I understand it, the electron flow from one plate of a capacitor to the other is based on three things... capacitance, load, and voltage change. Since none of these have changed, I would think that the capacitor being "bypassed" would be functioning exactly the same whether it is bypassed or not :scratch:
Mike
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Can you elaborate on this? As I understand it, the electron flow from one plate of a capacitor to the other is based on three things... capacitance, load, and voltage change. Since none of these have changed, I would think that the capacitor being "bypassed" would be functioning exactly the same whether it is bypassed or not :scratch:
Mike
I knew I'd read something about the theory behind bypass caps but couldn't remember where... anyway, I finally dug it up and it's here:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/explain-a-bypass-cap.750294/
I'm not an EE, was only stating what I've heard and what I've siscussed with others.
I'm assuming by your post that you don't believe that bypas caps make a differente ? Have you tried them in any applications ? Like I mentioned above, you can pick up a pair of Sonicap G2's for very little money and it doesn't take long to install them "around" a cop in a high pass filter. If you don't notice any difference, take them out, if you do, all the beter..... you might be surprised
jay
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Bypass the tweeter (.1 or .01uF for something that small) but don't bypass the midrange or bass.
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Bypass the tweeter (.1 or .01uF for something that small) but don't bypass the midrange or bass.
I started by-passing both tweeter and mid/woofer circuits. Everybody says I don't need it in the mid/woofer circuit but I like the result.
Mike
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Bypass the tweeter (.1 or .01uF for something that small) but don't bypass the midrange or bass.
I usually add bypass caps to series and parallel crossover capacitors, with out issue. So, I'm just curious as to why you don't recommend bypass caps on the mid or bass capacitors?
Thanks.
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I started by-passing both tweeter and mid/woofer circuits. Everybody says I don't need it in the mid/woofer circuit but I like the result.
Bypass caps, on the ClarityCap ESA's, that I used on my midrange circuit, really helped their upper midrange respond. Very sucked out/withdrawn otherwise, and lacking in air. Adding bypass caps helped fill in what was missing.
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Using a Duelund silver bypass cap on a Duelund 35.0uf cap in our outboard crossover was a big improvement in sound. More detail without changing tonality. Sound stage opened as well.
charles
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I recently started messing with bypass caps as well. I’ve tried countless caps in DACs and phono stages and amps and usually always preferred duelund or jupiter copper foils and haven’t looked back in years.. I was recently messing with an old replacement dac and swapped out the signal caps for sonicaps I had laying around bypassed with .1uF platinums... sounded soooooo much better than stock that I cannibalized some other gear to pull out the jupiter coppers because it should be that much better, right? I was surprised. The sonicap combo was way better than an unbypassed jupiter in the same spot. The jupiter had more depth and texture but the sonicap combo had tremendously better dynamics and overall realism. The dynamics with the single jupiter were dull in comparison. Then I bypassed the jupiter and it was.. eye opening. Ear opening? Made me order a bunch of bypass caps to throw on all my stuff anyway haha
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Bypass caps, on the ClarityCap ESA's, that I used on my midrange circuit, really helped their upper midrange respond. Very sucked out/withdrawn otherwise, and lacking in air. Adding bypass caps helped fill in what was missing.
Yep, ESA caps are good for mid and low frequencies but not so much for high frequencies. Definitely no good for tweeter circuits. At least not in the signal path. Same for the newer CSA caps.
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Yep, ESA caps are good for mid and low frequencies but not so much for high frequencies. Definitely no good for tweeter circuits. At least not in the signal path. Same for the newer CSA caps.
I'm absolutely loving the new Coppers bypassed with Miflex .022's on the high pass of my S7's. What an improvement... been meaning do a little blurb over in the S7 thread regarding them. Now I'm gonna have to spend more and get a pair for the midrange .....
jay
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Yep, ESA caps are good for mid and low frequencies but not so much for high frequencies. Definitely no good for tweeter circuits. At least not in the signal path. Same for the newer CSA caps.
You are absolutely correct about the ClarityCaps. Nice, but very colored, in some respects. And that upper end roll-off, drove me crazy. I was hoping it would improve with burn in, which it did to some degree. But, I had to add bypass caps, to open them up a bit more, and the sound was still slightly muted in the highs. While I like their sound, the Clarity's still aren't quite to my liking. I might try a mix of ClarityCaps and Mundorf's, to see if I can get a better blend.
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I'm absolutely loving the new Coppers bypassed with Miflex .022's on the high pass of my S7's. What an improvement...
The true audiophile does not settle for just bypass. If you are also a Texan, you want it all BIG :P
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/246935-amateur-ob-speaker-builder-and-his-arc-based-digital-system/?do=findComment&comment=3993216
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Miflex-kpcu-01-8_2uF-size.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Miflex-kpcu-01-8_2uF-size.jpg)
They each weigh 1.75kg and are as big as two coke cans...
Miflex KPCU-01 8.2uF +/- 5% 600Vdc
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The true audiophile does not settle for just bypass. If you are also a Texan, you want it all BIG :P
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/246935-amateur-ob-speaker-builder-and-his-arc-based-digital-system/?do=findComment&comment=3993216
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Miflex-kpcu-01-8_2uF-size.jpg)
Miflex KPCU-01 8.2uF +/- 5% 600Vdc
I'd have to add additional stuffing to my cabinets, to compensate for loss of volume, in order to use those...! :o
So, I'll leave everything as-is.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=201686)
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We must also take a look at the dimensions and weight even for few microfarads.
Better idea is to use only those of smaller value as bypass, forgetting those of greater value, size, weight and money!
I would change the resistors first, but until next week I will not verify if the Mills resistors change the sound of my little coaxials, for better or worse and how much.
BTW, complex crossover. What loudspeakers are they?
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With the Miflex caps, even the small values used for by-pass caps are huge in comparison to others. It’s the 600Vdc rating. IIRC, Sonicaps and Sonicap Platinums are 100Vdc. That extra capacity really bulks them up.
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BTW, complex crossover. What loudspeakers are they?
My Acoustic Research AR-90's. Four series caps and 4 parallel shunts. I used a mix of Mundorf's, with EVO Oils for the main series values. I added Mundorf Supremes or Supreme Silver/Oils, where I needed to build up values. Some Auricaps in there too. Parallel caps are Axon True Caps, with film and foil bypass caps.
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With the Miflex caps, even the small values used for by-pass caps are huge in comparison to others. It’s the 600Vdc rating. IIRC, Sonicaps and Sonicap Platinums are 100Vdc. That extra capacity really bulks them up.
[IMG, link] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover-MiFlex-bypass-2.jpg
[IMG, link] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover-MiFlex-bypass.jpg
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You are here too:
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/9293-ar-9-ar-90-crossover-re-capping-adventure/
Older thread with big pictures.
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/4174-what-type-of-capacitors-should-i-put-in-my-ar-90s/&do=findComment&comment=72371
[IMG, link] http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/uploads/monthly_01_2008/post-101175-1200489092.jpg
Clean walls... No Rez or similar inside?
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You are here too:
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/9293-ar-9-ar-90-crossover-re-capping-adventure/
Older thread with big pictures.
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/4174-what-type-of-capacitors-should-i-put-in-my-ar-90s/&do=findComment&comment=72371
[IMG, link] http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/uploads/monthly_01_2008/post-101175-1200489092.jpg
Clean walls... No Rez or similar inside?
Yup, I get around...! :D
I started my AR-90 refurb, some time back. But, some health issues slowed me down. Then, when I went to continue my refinish of the 90's, I found a pair of AR58S speakers, and after a recap, I've been enjoying them instead. Though, this reminds me, that I really need to get back to the 90's. :bawl:
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The walls seem... aglomerate. Old speakers :D
Before changing more components, such as resistors, it would be better to add a sandwich with viscoelastic material like No Rez, I think.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/acoustic-research-ar90-recap-basic-xover-questions.711857/
[Crossover, IMG link] http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/uploads/monthly_01_2008/post-101175-1200137398.gif
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The walls seem... aglomerate. Old speakers :D
Before changing more components, such as resistors, it would be better to add a sandwich with viscoelastic material like No Rez, I think.
AR90's
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=201694)
Yes, I've already added extra bracing, and damping to the cabinet walls. Also, added Dynamat to all the woofer baskets. Mills resistors in place too.
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Now that nobody reads us, did you notice improvement by adding cushioning to the furniture? And with Mills resistors? You probably did it all at once.
Dynamat is very expensive!
Now, in you loudspeakers this vinyl rip would sound great. In glorious mono, LIVE.
Thelonious Monk Quartet - Mønk (2018), Vinyl, mono, Gearbox Records, US
https://www.discogs.com/Thelonious-Monk-M%C3%B8nk/release/12576350
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/music/6958-playing-listening-post5999443.html
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Now that nobody reads us, did you notice improvement by adding cushioning to the furniture? And with Mills resistors? You probably did it all at once.
Dynamat is very expensive!
Now, in you loudspeakers this vinyl rip would sound great. In glorious mono, LIVE.
Thelonious Monk Quartet - Mønk (2018), Vinyl, mono, Gearbox Records, US
https://www.discogs.com/Thelonious-Monk-M%C3%B8nk/release/12576350
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/music/6958-playing-listening-post5999443.html
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I haven't been able to do any serious before and after comparisons, due to the length of the restore. But, I did do a recap A/B comparison, between a stock speaker, and the recapped high range drivers, of the other. The post recap improvements were very pronounced. Much cleaner and clearer. No haze over the sound. No opaqueness. Very palpable. Less noise too, as the old caps were sounding very distorted.
And thanks for the link. Acoustic music always does well on a pair of AR's. That'll make for a fun listening session.
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You are absolutely correct about the ClarityCaps. Nice, but very colored, in some respects. And that upper end roll-off, drove me crazy. I was hoping it would improve with burn in, which it did to some degree. But, I had to add bypass caps, to open them up a bit more, and the sound was still slightly muted in the highs. While I like their sound, the Clarity's still aren't quite to my liking. I might try a mix of ClarityCaps and Mundorf's, to see if I can get a better blend.
Clarity CMR are pricy but much better than the CSA/ESA series. Otherwise I would recommend Sonicap gen 1 with copper or Teflon bypass.
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I started by-passing both tweeter and mid/woofer circuits. Everybody says I don't need it in the mid/woofer circuit but I like the result.
Mike
Are you still using bypass caps on both tweeter and mid/woofer circuits? How does a bypass cap work on second order capacitor shunts in a low pass filters used for the mid/woofer; I thought bypass caps were used to reduce inductance at high frequencies.. TIA.
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I'm a total noob to DIY, this thread has been enlightening and a great read:thumb:
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I just got a pair of Koss M80 MTM speakers which I am thinking about recapping. Since current caps are considered better than 40 years ago when these speakers were made, should I add a bypass cap? And should I do both the tweeter and midrange?
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I just got a pair of Koss M80 MTM speakers which I am thinking about recapping. Since current caps are considered better than 40 years ago when these speakers were made, should I add a bypass cap? And should I do both the tweeter and midrange?
Maybe just take it one step at a time. Start with tweeter caps. Listen to the change and go from there. Bypass caps are not absolutely necessary. Consider them seasoning.
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Thank you, I will go one step at a time.
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Sorry to jump in here but...
What Bypass value do you all recommend for a 4 uF tweeter cap?
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I have by pass caps on both tweeter and mids.I started with Sonicap platinum but switched to Milflex copper a nice upgrade.
lokie Danny usually uses .1uf for by pass caps.
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The general recommendation is the bypass cap should be of higher quality and no more than ~1% of the target cap uF rating..