[charmerci]

Well, back to electric cars.


It's still a small percentage of cars sold but the market seems stable.


https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/tesla-isn-apos-t-facing-141500312.html

[Tomy2Tone]

I saw this the other day...


https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/06/ford-gives-the-first-peek-at-its-mustang-inspired-electric-crossover/

[ctviggen]

For me, the Volt was a good compromise.  I would use battery the vast majority of time, except for winter when the engine came on and also for longer distances.  It only had about 60 miles on a non-cold day, but my drive is only 30 miles round trip.

[OzarkTom]

How about a Jaguar I-Pace EV?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/09/09/tesla-fighter-jaguars-electric-pace-stakes-its-claim-musk-turf/1226914002/

[WGH]

How about a Jaguar I-Pace EV?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/09/09/tesla-fighter-jaguars-electric-pace-stakes-its-claim-musk-turf/1226914002/

Looks like an $18,000 Honda Civic with a $70,000 Jaguar nameplate glued on. I thought one reason to buy a Jaguar is to let everyone see you are driving a Jaguar, the I-Pace would be hard to find in a Walmart parking lot without an antenna topper.

[guf]

Your intent and how you define the term is not relevant. The point is that some terms shouldn't be used in the context of racially polarizing issues, and "monkey-mind" is certainly one of them.

As you mentioned, do some research on the topic and I'm sure you'll find that it's a highly complex issue that has tremendous human rights implications (think: mass sterilization) and a contorted history. Also contemplate how a government would enforce such a program and the penalties for those who don't comply (think: castration - ouch!).

HUH? monkey mind is a meditation, Buddhist, eastern philosophy thing. Right?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/02/28/8-science-based-tricks-for-quieting-the-monkey-mind/#340ef4641af6

I guess our propaganda is different for the regions we live in.

[avahifi]

The trouble with other EV brand startups is that they are just startups with no charging networks.

Only Tesla has a well developed network of Level 3 fast charging stations all over the USA (and Europe).

Other non-Tesla charging stations are almost Level 2 types which will only allow about 40 miles of range added per hour at the best.  A Tesla can use these in a pinch and there are lots of these too.

This is fine for at home overnight charging, but inadequate for cross country use.

The Tesla GPS system along with using their iPhone Tesla app, shows SuperCharge stations along and near your planned route.  It also shows number of now available charging stalls and what food, rest, and lodging stops are nearby.  In general, its about one half of hour charging time to get you another 200 -250 miles down the road. Unless needed it recommended that you keep the charge between 20 percent and 80 percent to provide longest battery life.  Note that the battery is guaranteed for 8 years even if you don't follow their recommendations.

Frank

Frank

[WGH]

 9.10.2018 - Another fun read in Wired:

Hackers Can Steal a Tesla Model S in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob
https://www.wired.com/story/hackers-steal-tesla-model-s-seconds-key-fob?mbid=nl_091118_daily_list1_p2&CNDID=30803929

"A team of researchers at the KU Leuven university in Belgium on Monday plan to present a paper at the Cryptographic Hardware and Embedded Systems conference in Amsterdam [11/1/2018], revealing a technique for defeating the encryption used in the wireless key fobs of Tesla's Model S luxury sedans. With about $600 in radio and computing equipment, they can wirelessly read signals from a nearby Tesla owner's fob. Less than two seconds of computation yields the fob's cryptographic key, allowing them to steal the associated car without a trace."

"Tesla also says that Model S units sold after June of this year aren't vulnerable to the attack, due to upgraded key fob encryption that it implemented in response to the KU Leuven research. But if owners of a Model S manufactured before then don't turn on that PIN—or don't pay to replace their key fob with the more strongly encrypted version—the researchers say they're still vulnerable to their key-cloning method."

[avahifi]

A replacement key card is about $10.

Also next generation free software download will provide optional use of PIN number to enter in to start car.

So much for existing hacks.

Who knows what bad people will try in the future.  What is really safe these days?

Frank

[adydula]

What is the cost to replace the batteries??

Alex

[macrojack]

What is the cost to replace the batteries??

Alex

I believe Frank mentioned earlier that all Teslas have an 8 year warranty on the batteries. So you might rightly deduce from that that the battery replacement cost for the first 8 years is always zero dollars. It is probably useless to speculate what the cost might be should the batteries require replacement after 8 years because of the rapid (and accelerating) rate of change we are witnessing today in battery technology. Seems like this is not a worry.

[artur9]

I know Frank really likes the incredible acceleration on the Tesla.

OTOH, IME, you do not need it so much.  My electric car has instant torque so even without the crazy acceleration most ICE cars are left 2-3 blocks behind me from a stop light.  With the acceleration I need a telescope to see them

Since the car is silent when accelerating (or high pitched whine) is it even possible to get an excessive start ticket when driving an electric?

[adydula]

8 years??  I question this one.....what are the battery warenty details?? Pro- rated or is it 100% period.....any battery I have bought always had a pro-rated warrenty....the devil is in the details......and what do you do with milliions of batteries at the end of thir life cycle??

Alex

[jtwrace]

and what do you do with milliions of batteries at the end of thir life cycle??

Alex

Proven fact, you use A LOT of oil to recycle them!  It's such a farce it's ridiculous as people can't think through the whole process as they only see one very small part. 

[sts9fan]

Expecting new technology ecosystems to come out all at once and be all inclusive is ridiculous.
Also, everyone here is unwilling to acknowledge that to some the Model 3 is move fun to drive, less of a pita to own and a cool chunk of tech. If I came on here showing my “cool” new M3 or 10 mpg muscle car many would ooo and ah over it. Never mentioning the resources that it takes to provide for the car. Shall we look st the Daily Driver thread?

[trackball02]

Proven fact, you use A LOT of oil to recycle them!  It's such a farce it's ridiculous as people can't think through the whole process as they only see one very small part.

Can you cite any sources stating that it takes "A LOT of oil to recycle them? What are the proven facts?

Also, consider the internal combustion car, what do you do with all of the used motor oil, radiator fluid, ATF and differential fluid, brakepads etc. What is the cost to recycle those fliuds? And don't tell me all of that is proprely recycled. This stuff is dumped and polluting our waterways.

Also, from the comments above, why do you expect the battery to be replaced in 8 years?  Studies have shown that the Tesls battery looses 9% after 170,000 miles and 20% after 510,000 miles.  Most internal combustion cars after 200,000 miles are toast, requiring major repairs or replacment by that time.

https://medium.com/tradr/teslas-approach-to-recycling-is-the-way-of-the-future-for-sustainable-production-5af99b62aa0e

[adydula]

I think a Tesla 3 would be neat to drive....but I also realize where we are in the real world, good and bad.....If Frank wants a Tesla "more power to him" and I hope he has fu with it....just as much fun as I did with my 3 Corvettes sucking down 93 octane!!

I am not arguing the idea, but as many the concept is great on paper and there is a cost from getting from where we are to where many want to go with electric cars...nuff said...

But what is the cost of replacing those batteries if the car is in an accident??? What is the insurance ratings for one of these beasts??

Inquiring minds want to know, not to argue!

:>)

Alex

[avahifi]

My insurance agent quoted about $1000 a year to insure the Tesla 3.  Of course part of this reason is I have no accidents in 50 years of driving other then a fender bender long long ago with my brand new 1959 VW (other guys fault).

Good definition of safe driver:  someone who has not locked his brakes to avoid an accident in the past 10 years.

[JakeJ]

I wonder why Elon didn't go with a replaceable battery pack?  That way Tesla owners could just pull in to the refuel station and swap packs in a matter of minutes and go rather than waiting for a charge for some length of time.  It would be closer to the present refueling model.

[firedog]

I wonder why Elon didn't go with a replaceable battery pack?  That way Tesla owners could just pull in to the refuel station and swap packs in a matter of minutes and go rather than waiting for a charge for some length of time.  It would be closer to the present refueling model.

That model has already been tried and failed. See "Better Place" which attempted such a model in the small countries of Israel and Denmark. And the larger the country the more difficult/expensive the model becomes. See: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-electric-cars-not-equipped-with-easily-removable-batteries?share=1

It means setting up a vast number of stations to replace packs. If you don't have enough stations the cars aren't practical and people don't want them. Car batteries are heavy and expensive. You'd need some kind of station with an expensive robot car bay. And each car model is slightly different. To make the model work, the company has to lease the batteries to owners (an awkward arrangement)  and invest in a huge inventory of "spares". So difficult and expensive to do. 

And people prefer to just be able to plug in. Much easier for the individual to plan around and more practical.