Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra

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Spatial Audio

Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« on: 8 Sep 2022, 12:08 am »
September 07 2022 - Today, we are announcing the introduction of a new premium level M4, known as M4 Ultra. This is a new, no compromise M4 with Beyma mid/woofers from the X4 and a new silk dome tweeter from Beyma (Spain). The 3 inch thick, 80 lb structure is modeled after the X4 to provide world-class bass performance and high rigidity. The machined aluminum support base completes the structure.

The Beyma silk dome tweeter replaces the Sapphire tweeter, which is no longer available. The Beyma unit has a wide frequency range and linear response like the Sapphire M100 tweeter. Crossover point is 800Hz. Factory direct price is $4950 pr. For more information, see our website: www.spatialaudiolab.com

Cheers,
Clayton




RonN5

Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #1 on: 8 Sep 2022, 12:25 am »
Clayton… best of luck with the M4 Ultra… presumably the M3 Sapphire will be resurrected in an updated format as well.

Question:  does the new tweeter have wide dispersion similar to the Sapphire tweeter?

Spatial Audio

Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #2 on: 8 Sep 2022, 12:32 am »
Clayton… best of luck with the M4 Ultra… presumably the M3 Sapphire will be resurrected in an updated format as well.

Question:  does the new tweeter have wide dispersion similar to the Sapphire tweeter?

Thanks Ron,

The radiation pattern is a little narrower (90 deg @4kHz) and very even because the faceplate is a Controlled Directivity (CD) lens.

Clayton

Rthomeint

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Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #3 on: 8 Sep 2022, 12:03 pm »
I have a few questions about the new speakers.


Are crossover part of the same quality as the X4?

I the baffle construction like the X series?


RonN5

Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #4 on: 8 Sep 2022, 12:58 pm »
Clayton, thanks for the quick response.  As you can already see, there will be a lot of questions about the updated M series.  As you know from my posts, I have the M3 Sapphires...they are really, really great sounding speakers...I have three relatively simple questions:

1.  Ron from New Record Day described the Sapphire tweeter as marching up to the point of being edgy..without going over.  I agree, the level of detail without fatigue is excellent.  Does the silk tweeter march as close to the edge...or is it a hair further back...or even further?

2.  This next question is about the low end...not the quality of the bass but the quantity.  The Sapphire's 15" drivers put out a lot of bass (bass quantity), does the M4 Ultra Beyma 12" woofer put out as much bass as the 15" M3 Sapphire woofer?

3.  Does the new M4 Ultra retain an outboard crossover box mounted to the aluminum base?

Thanks again Clayton...I think the more clarity you can provide regarding the updated M's, the more new orders are going to be flooding in!


catluck

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Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #5 on: 10 Sep 2022, 12:54 pm »
Clayton,
What happens to the M3's in the field if their tweets fail/damaged? Is the Beyma a direct replacement? X-over mod's necessary?  OR, do you anticipate the peerless unit coming back on line in the near future?

Mr. Big

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Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #6 on: 10 Sep 2022, 02:02 pm »
Clayton,
What happens to the M3's in the field if their tweets fail/damaged? Is the Beyma a direct replacement? X-over mod's necessary?  OR, do you anticipate the peerless unit coming back on line in the near future?

Looking at the design of the M3s are would guess we could update the tweeter and buy 2 new crossover boxes and have an updated speaker which would be a great value and easy to do due to the crossover over being plug and play. In fact, I will be all for these options and am willing to pay for them. I love silk dome tweeters. Be good for Clayton and the owners.

catluck

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Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #7 on: 10 Sep 2022, 02:23 pm »
Mr. Big,
I'm with you. I also own the big Merlins using Dynaudio Esotar D-330's silk domes, reputedly among the finest ever made. And, yes, I love their presentation. So silk domes are OK with me.  The replaceable x-over? That's fine as well.  What, though, send the old x-over back to Clayton? Toss it? Actually, upon thinking about it (rare, I know), there isn't supposed to be much of an M3 x-over, correct? A resistor in-line with the tweet and maybe an inductor for the bass drivers? Isn't that about it?

Mr. Big

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Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #8 on: 11 Sep 2022, 12:31 am »
Well, the design is great to order a new crossover takes the old one off and put on the new one. No muss no fuss. I have no issue with that at all. Tweeter would just be inserted it in the M3 if you wanted to try a silk dome. In fact you have both tweeters so if you wanted to change the sound a bit you could or your preference. Win, Win for all. Good business also.

AndrewA

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Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #9 on: 18 Oct 2022, 04:50 pm »
The M4 is listed as a two-way, while the X4 is described as a 2.5-way, implying that the upper woofer in the X4 is being used in a different way (different crossover) than in the M4.  Is that right?

forky

Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #10 on: 3 Jan 2023, 11:08 pm »
Clayton,
What happens to the M3's in the field if their tweets fail/damaged? Is the Beyma a direct replacement? X-over mod's necessary?  OR, do you anticipate the peerless unit coming back on line in the near future?

I'll let you know. I blew one of my tweeters (again / 2nd time) this afternoon. I'm aware this may take some time due to Clayton being sick (hopefully he is impoving and doing well).

Last year I was listening too loud but today - it was loud but not LOUD - probably 90 db w/ peaks to 95, volume knob at about 4.5. I'm bummed because I'm tweeterless for a while in 1 speaker (which means not listending at all except in headphones) but really almost as bad I'll have to start the breakin process over for the 3rd time. 1st world problems but ugh. It took me a year to get about 150-175 hours on the current tweeters.

catluck

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Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #11 on: 4 Jan 2023, 03:01 pm »
Forky - SO BUMMED FOR YOU!!  I know what it's like to be without music and it's NO FUN.  Hopefully you'll be able to get a replacement... But it does make me wonder.  I've not read about too many (or any?) failed tweets in the Sapphire series. And you've suffered through 2. Do you think it's something about your system?  If you're an outlier, why?  It just seems strange that one person could suffer with 2 failed tweets... Not to say that it can't happen.. Strange things happen all the time. But the question remains whether this is a strange occurrence or if something is awry in your system even if it's listening too loud (and I'm not saying you do).  But now you've got me scared and I'm going to turn down the volume.  Do you think your situation is simply the result of defective tweets or something else?

RonN5

Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #12 on: 4 Jan 2023, 03:29 pm »
Catluck,

As you noted, there seem to be few if any other reports of failure...and lots of people running their speakers at 90 db plus which more than likely means over 100db at 1m.  The unit still shows on the Peerless website and seems to be available to order in bulk internationally.  Also, fwiw, peerless sapphire type units seem to be used in a number of their models....here is just one example.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/floor-standing/canton-vento-100-floor-standing-speaker-review/

forky....if you can't locate one on your own, maybe a Canton dealer can secure one for you

forky

Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #13 on: 4 Jan 2023, 03:42 pm »
Hi Catluck, I can't say of course but if you've made it this long with your listening habbits, you will probably be ok in the future. That said, although the first blowout was WAY TOO LOUD and yesterday def was loud, it wasn't LOUD IMO. The volume knob was at 4.5 and I would guess the DBs were around 85-90 w/ peaks of 95. When the first blowout happened, I blamed myself, but not this one as I've listened that loud many times over the past year w/ no issues. I'm confident my amp isn't taxed and not clipping (not impossible but very doubtful) as M3s as I think 93 db/1 watt and I don't think I was much over that w/ about 50 watts per channel for my amp.

There have been at least 2, maybe 3 other reports of this happening (that I know of), one of them contacted me and we traded a few emails. About a month ago I traded emails with a "pro" reviewer and he owned M3s but sold them becuase he thought the tweeter is asked to do too much w/ a 576 hz crossover - or at least that is one of the reasons.

Since I set up my m3s and got them to disappear I have been completely (well almost anyway) satisfied with these speakers and intended to keep them for a long time but not I'm questioning again. With the Peerless tweeters NLA and Clayton's health right now (again I have full sympathy there and his health and taking care of himself is more important than me having tweeters - he is truly one of the nicest and best seller/manufactuer/people I have ever dealt with) along with this being the 2nd time, I'm thinking about moving on again.

For now, I will pull my trusty old Mirage M460s out of the garage and maybe buy a sub to get me through for a while. I could have the new tweeter at my doorstep next week or I may be waiting months. I have no idea - but will be ok with the Mirages and my headphones (where I spend more time anyway due to low WAF for "noise").

Edit, just saw Ron's post. Thanks Ron. I may just do that (contact Canton) although Clayton has said that Peerless "tunes" the tweeters for the Sapphires so....that may be a very good bandaid but ultimately I will need M3 tuned Peerless tweeters or maybe a M4 swap. When Catluck posted his post on Sept 10 it stuck with me and I remembered it not too long after I lost that tweeter yesterday.


catluck

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Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #14 on: 4 Jan 2023, 04:22 pm »
Forky,
Got it. You raise an interesting issue re: volume.  Sometimes, when playing  louder than usual, I will hear piano notes "harden" or congest if you know what I mean.  Likewise with other instruments which acquire an edge or glare or.... tones/timbre which are no longer musical.  I take that as a sign to turn it down... FAST...  So I guess I've just accepted a volume limitation although truth be told, it's rare that I find myself wanting to listen at volumes rendering the M3's tweet inadequate. Maybe it's a good thing in any event if it helps to preserve hearing. 

Anyway, I wish you the very best of luck in getting a replacement.  A selfish ask: If you do contact SA to request a replacement could you inquire if SA has a stock of tweets in case anybody else.... and let us know  Thanks and again, good luck.  You're right when you say it's a FWP but still....

RonN5

Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #15 on: 4 Jan 2023, 05:13 pm »
I have the M3 Sapphires and generally don't play above 85db peaks

Honestly though, I think that many tweeters glare when pushed too hard...but I never heard glare when I had Salks with RAAL tweets...

And since I've had the Sapphires,  I've never heard them glare or have congestion with any of these amps...Lyngdorf 2170, Parasound Halo A23, 2Cherry, Orchard Audio Stereo Ultra and Wells Immorata 2ST.....with maybe the Stereo Ultra being ever so slightly the smoothest but with tons of definition and space.

As for "tuning" the drivers....I suspect that is in the crossover and not so much in the unit itself.

As for the 576 hz crossover....I suspect that is one of the reasons they sound so good

It may be a wait but it looks like they can still be ordered in Europe on this site if SA doesn't have a stock.

https://www.sonopart.com/spd/PEE-DA32TX00-08/DA32TX00-08-1-1-4-Corondum-Dome-Tweeter-Matched-Pa

aniwolfe

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Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #16 on: 4 Jan 2023, 05:32 pm »
@forky

I would wait to get confirmation from Spatial. I am pretty sure those tweeters that are in your Sapphires are modified for Spatial Audio. I know they use Ferrofluid...the ones on the links don't list Ferrofluid.  And even if they did, I would still get confirmation from someone at Spatial.

RonN5

Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #17 on: 4 Jan 2023, 05:46 pm »
Actually, If you look at the spec sheet...unless I'm reading it wrong and I probably am, it shows ferrofluid.

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1678--peerless-da32tx00-08-spec-sheet.pdf

forky

Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #18 on: 4 Jan 2023, 05:48 pm »
Hi Catluck, I hate (!) distortion and as soon as I hear anything breaking up or brightness the volume knob goes down immidiately. On my cleaner sounding records I'm sure I could go louder than I do but don't (excpet that one time last year  :( ). Also, of course I don't always listen that loud and...."only" listen to my M3s 0-3 hours per week as I can only do it when my wife has left the building. While I do have tinnitus, it isn't that bad that it bothers me. I just had my hearing checked in August and the doctor (?) said I have excellent hearing and was surprised at how faint I could hear the beeps (for 53 yo). But - I like to feel my music, even if just a small amount and like it on the louder side. I did read a comment last year that most sound engineers listen at around 85 db. I don't know if that is true or not.

Sure, once I get a reply from SA, I'll ask them how many are left - if any!

Hi Ron,

Sounds good and thanks for that link! I'll probably order if I don't hear from SA soon...


RonN5

Re: Major Product Announcement - M4 Ultra
« Reply #19 on: 4 Jan 2023, 06:01 pm »
Just another thought...other than Ron at New Record Day who was using the Sapphires for his reference and said that they marched right to the edge of being too revealing without going over, it hasn't seemed like there are many people using OB's for reviews...or even admitting they own them.  At any rate, I've noticed that Ron doesn't show any of the Spatials on his YouTube channel lately and wondered if he was getting flak for being a fanboy.

Clayton has done more than anyone to "legitimize" OB speakers as belonging to the "in crowd" group...and to make them worthy of the living room with his beautiful designs....although my wife doesn't completely agree and over the holidays asked me if it was time to get new speakers as she knows that I generally mix things up every year or so just for the sake of change.