[Daryl Zero]

DACs are one of the things that bother me. I understand their place in the chain but I've never really paid any attention to them until getting the X5s and I still am not sure they do anything. I watch a bunch of video reviews and apparently anyone can hear differences because of DACS which almost seems like snakeoil to me.

Assuming that DACs make a significant difference in your system, I have a few questions.

1.  What DAC are you using and why?
2.  Is there a DAC that works best with Spatial Audio Labs' speakers and why?
3.  Is there any point in getting a DAC when the technology seems to be improving every year?

[Markwatkiss]

Current reference is an APL DSD DAC ,the most analog sound I have experienced from a digital source.
DAC compatibility is with a digital front end,not speakers,they simply benefit from getting it right upstream.
Technology in DAC improvements is changing rapidly,what’s in today is gone to Maui.Do your due diligence and you will be rewarded.

[Audiosaurusrex]

I’m using my M3 Sapphires with an RME-ADI FS and Teddy Pardo power supply. Coming from my MacBook Pro and Audirvāna it has a beautifully dynamic and transparent sound, going balanced into my Octave V70 Class A it’s hard to beat IMO.

[Tyson]

I use an iFi iDSD Pro because it's got a 'real' tubed output stage (and not just a tube buffer tacked on after an SS output stage) and it's fully balanced internally.  It took me a while to realize it, but I've come to the conclusion that I'll never buy a non-tubed DAC again. 

[abomwell]

I don't know if DAC's are snake oil but the differences between them I find  subtle. I find larger, more significant, differences by moving the speakers around and dialing in room treatments.

[Desertpilot]

I went with a SS model, exaSound S88, multichannel DAC, and Teddy Pardo linear PS.  They also make Stereo DACs.

What to look for:
-- Mine will convert, natively, DSD up to 256, DXD up to 32/352.8 and PCM up to 384.
-- Sabre ES9038PRO DAC chip
-- A number of features related to Jitter, Clock accuracy and USB Audio error correction.

I'm very happy with it.  Server - USB - S88 - XLR to my Amp - to my X3s.

Marcus

[bakufu]

i have several dacs, used in different systems.  long story made short, in answer to your other questions.

2) ask clayton for a recommendation.  years ago he had me pair his cs1.3 speakers with a prism orpheus preamp/dac.  i never had any cause to be dissatisfied.

3) there is value to be had at the low end of the high end.  depending on your other components you might well be satisfied with e.g. schiit's $99 modi dac, which is really and outstanding bargain.

[Daryl Zero]

i have several dacs, used in different systems.  long story made short, in answer to your other questions.

2) ask clayton for a recommendation.  years ago he had me pair his cs1.3 speakers with a prism orpheus preamp/dac.  i never had any cause to be dissatisfied.

3) there is value to be had at the low end of the high end.  depending on your other components you might well be satisfied with e.g. schiit's $99 modi dac, which is really and outstanding bargain.

I am using the Modi 3 dac for music from a computer. I have a cd player for use less frequently which I use the dac inside it. 

I appreciate the answers so far. Additional question for Tyson: you still would recommend a tube output stage dac even if you are using tubes to amplify?

For me, I'll stay in a reasonable price range and/or buy used.
 

[Tyson]

Additional question for Tyson: you still would recommend a tube output stage dac even if you are using tubes to amplify?

I would.  I find that I get listener fatigue after a couple of hours with SS based digital.  Even with a tube amp and tube preamp.

[jtwrace]

1.  What DAC are you using and why?
2.  Is there a DAC that works best with Spatial Audio Labs' speakers and why?
3.  Is there any point in getting a DAC when the technology seems to be improving every year?

1.  Motu Ultralite Mk 5.  8 Channel for my Audiolense setup
2. Nope, all a farce for those that say there is.  Science doesn't lie. 
3.  Sure, just spend appropriately.  There are Incredible dacs for under $900 (e.g. Topping D90)

[Early B.]

OP -- allow me to be blunt: if you have X5's and you're using the DAC in a CD player or a $99 DAC, then you're nowhere close to hearing how good your speakers really are. I own a Modi 3 and it's a toddler's toy compared to my main DAC. There are no shortcuts in high-end audio. As jtwrace mentioned, there are some great DACS at the sub-$1,000 level, but consider it entry-level for your purposes.

DAC technology appears to have plateaued in the past 2-3 years. The R2R DACs have taken center stage. Doesn't mean they're better than any other topology, just popular at the moment.

[sjsfiveo]

I had a Aesthetix Pandora Eclipse with some NOS tubs that was out of this world good with my X5's. I have a Denifrips Venus 2 with my X3's now wishing I had the Pandora back.

[TomS]

Networked Bricasti M1SE via Roon with X5's, is most excellent.

[Daryl Zero]

I had a Aesthetix Pandora Eclipse with some NOS tubs that was out of this world good with my X5's. I have a Denifrips Venus 2 with my X3's now wishing I had the Pandora back.

You can get one on US Audio Mart for just under $6k now. Sheesh.

[Daryl Zero]

OP -- allow me to be blunt: if you have X5's and you're using the DAC in a CD player or a $99 DAC, then you're nowhere close to hearing how good your speakers really are. I own a Modi 3 and it's a toddler's toy compared to my main DAC. There are no shortcuts in high-end audio. As jtwrace mentioned, there are some great DACS at the sub-$1,000 level, but consider it entry-level for your purposes.

Well that's the question. I've played in bands and I recorded music in somewhat rudimentary home recording equipment. I've also heard many forms of live music. I think I have a pretty good idea of what music sounds like in the wild. Is the DAC actually making the music better or is it doing something like hdr does in cameras, making it more surreal. Even if it is helping, the costs of DACs goes from $30 to six figures and how much is enough. How much of this is just related to how much you spend? Has anyone done blind tests to see if there really is a difference?

Unless you don't have a care in world about how much you spend, what is it you really need a DAC to do that your equipment can't already do? I understand that computers aren't really meant to be music servers and require a DAC. My cd player is the Rotel Tribute Series CD11 which has a Texas Instruments  24-bit/192 kHz DAC which sounds pretty good to my ears which the reviews I've seen seem to confirm.

[Tyson]

What is it you really need a DAC to do that your equipment can't already do?

One way to find out is to drop one in to your system and listen.  With speakers as revealing as the X5's, if there's a difference, you'll hear it.

[sjsfiveo]

You can get one on US Audio Mart for just under $6k now. Sheesh

I had a deal to buy that DAC (it use to be mine) we agreed on terms and then he backed out last minute with  a bullshit excuse he's just trying to get more money he's had it for sale for 6 months.

[Early B.]

Well that's the question. I've played in bands and I recorded music in somewhat rudimentary home recording equipment. I've also heard many forms of live music. I think I have a pretty good idea of what music sounds like in the wild. Is the DAC actually making the music better or is it doing something like hdr does in cameras, making it more surreal. Even if it is helping, the costs of DACs goes from $30 to six figures and how much is enough. How much of this is just related to how much you spend? Has anyone done blind tests to see if there really is a difference?

Unless you don't have a care in world about how much you spend, what is it you really need a DAC to do that your equipment can't already do? I understand that computers aren't really meant to be music servers and require a DAC. My cd player is the Rotel Tribute Series CD11 which has a Texas Instruments  24-bit/192 kHz DAC which sounds pretty good to my ears which the reviews I've seen seem to confirm.

Sounds like you've got your mind made up. That's fine -- keep what you have. However, you would have saved a lot of money if you used the same logic for the purchase of your X5's.

Separate components are precisely what separates high-end systems from entry-level ones. For the past 20 years, virtually every high-end audio system includes a separate DAC. Many of us began our DAC journey with a CD player, and then we experimented with a cheap DAC and moved progressively to higher-end DACs. We didn't do that because we enjoy spending money or prefer "surreal" sounding music.
 

[Daryl Zero]

Sounds like you've got your mind made up. That's fine -- keep what you have. However, you would have saved a lot of money if you used the same logic for the purchase of your X5's.

It's more that I'm skeptical. As for the speakers, I went up a chain so I heard the difference. I still maintained my stance of not spending over a certain amount of money and got the speakers slightly used for a big savings.

I just see some strange stuff in this hobby like cables and DACs which cost as much or more than the speakers and/or the amps. Anyhow, I don't consider myself an audiophile but more of a music lover. So I may try some stuff that is in a price range to see if it makes a significant difference.

Problem always is the lack of high end boutique stores where you can audition.

[Early B.]

It's more that I'm skeptical.

That's OK. Most of us started out skeptical. Audio ain't logical and much of it can't be explained technically, so it's practical to be cautious. None of us jumped into audio knowing we'd spend as much money as we have. Lots of hobbies are like that.

There's only one guiding principle: EVERYTHING in the audio chain can improve the sound of your system. This extends from the wire in your walls (dedicated lines) to the room itself (acoustic treatments). Because it requires extensive experimentation in your home and with your ears, this principle can take many years to sink in.