[viggen]

Hey, cool looking bikes.  Have you become a collector?  I hope you are out there racking up lots of miles on them!  I often think (and talk!) about getting a new bike.  I just completed 41 miles at a decent pace on a very windy day and feel like I could do another 40!  After my last fitting, my bike is dialed in nicely.  I don't use any chamois cream or wear gloves with padding (I like to use the back of glove to wipe my face off) and I have no pain anywhere. 

At the moment, I'm too lazy to spend the time to dial in a new bike.  Looks more and more like this one will be my main ride for at least another year!  Cheers and post some stuff about your riding experience (please)!  I'm looking forward to hearing about how that new Fuji does on the road.

Cheers,

J

Hey J.

I can't say I am a bike collector yet.  I have three bikes now and plan to sell one.  So, two might not be a large enough "stable" to be called a collection.  Although, I am constantly on ebay looking at bike porn.  I got bit by the vintage steel bike bug hard.  And, currently am teaching myself how to restore bikes.  Here's a link to my restoration project. http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/731935-Purchased-Vintage-Bottecchia-Now-What  I use "etane" as my moniker on that forum.

My weekly miles has been dwindling.  I started at about 130 miles a week and now down to about 80 miles.  I am taking more rests between riding days now, and run once a week while I P90X 3 days a week.  So, I am mixing in other exercises along with the bike rides.  Plus, I lost about 15lbs in the last 2 months.  The good part is I am lighter.  The bad part is I need more time to recover between rides.  Also, I feel I get more from my work outs when I do a P90X workout in the morning then bike in the afternoon. 

I am leaning towards selling the Fuji Team Carbon although I think it's a great bike.  It's effortless to pedal and ride especially with the aerobar installed and the Ultegra wheels.  However, I really dig the Toyota.  It's a much more agile bike though it is a bit harder on the body.  I get more worn out after a ride on the Toyota than with the Team.  Part of the reason is because the Toyota has a standard crank whereas the Team has a compact one.  So, hills with the Toyota requires more effort.  And, I have yet to migrate the aerobar from the Team to the Toyota yet.  So, that's another factor.  My upper body does a lot less work when it rests on the aerobar. 

The Toyota carves corners like no other bike I've ridden.  On right turns at intersections, I can go almost 20mph and still stay in the bike lane with the Toyota while only 14mph with the Team.  This bike is just crazy agile.  It is a more exciting bike to ride. 

Currently, I average about 16mph on my hilly ride and about 17 on my PCH ride.  I was at about 12 and 13 about 2 months ago.  Getting lighter and stronger is one reason for the improvement.  Having the new Ultegra wheels and aerobars helped too.  And, just ordered a pair of Hutchinson Atom tubeless tires to mount on the Ultegras.  I had actually ordered a pair of Conti GP4000S, but they are too tight to get onto the Ultegras' rims which are designed for both clincher and tubeless, so the rims are meatier.  So, I have the Conti on the Bottecchia now and will experiment with tubeless on the Toyota.

Thanks for updating me on your biking progress.  BTW, I use a rather thinly padded mountain biking glove because I like to wipe sweat off face with back of glove too.  Most mountain bike gloves have that patch designed for wiping off sweat.

[jackman]

Hey, thanks for the update and for your comments on the bikes!  You have some cool rides.  I check eBay all the time for bikes (vintage steel!) and have never pulled the trigger.  I  am very concerned about how the bike will fit and want to find something local so I can test it out before I pull the trigger. 

Looking forward to your comments on the tires.  The Conti's are my favorites (as I stated) and every guy in my group who rides clinchers and has tried Conti, rides GP4K's.  There are some guys who ride whatver is on sale.  Some of these guys are very fast, much faster than me.  I ride Conti because of the smooth ride and the durability.  They aren't as durable as Gator's but ride much better. 

Lastly, it's good to hear you like those aero bars.  I'm going to get some eventually, for solo rides.  The wind in this area is a beast but it's forced me to become more flexible so I can ride in the drops.  I ride about 50% in the drops and 100% in the drops when I'm into the wind (except on climbs or when my hands need a change of pace). 

Do you have a Garmin Edge?  If not, I'd recommend one. They really help you track your progress and miles on GarminConnect.  It's so easy to use and so useful.  I've finished rides where I would swear my avg speed was +20 mph only too find it to be much lower.  It's the best cycing training tool I have ever purchased and I can't imagine not having it. 

Good luck, and please keep us posted on your new gear (comments on wheels, tires, etc.).   I look forward to learning from your experiences.  Congrats on the weight loss also!   

[viggen]

J.

Been thinking about either getting the Garmin or an Iphone for turn by turn GPS.  There are some destinations I'd like to get to such as Vegas or Mt. Baldy from OC but don't trust my map reading ability while on a bike.  I'd hate to make a wrong turn somewhere and have to back pedal 20 miles.... I am not sure of the battery life on these phones with the GPS on all the time though.  I am using Sigma 1909 right now.  It tracks my cadence and HR as well as the other usual stuff and are uploaded to my PC with the USB dock option. 

I just biked 63 miles on the Toyota yesterday.  My average is 14.84mph.  I don't know how Sigma includes or doesn't include random stops like at red lights and stuff.  But, I stopped 4 times to adjust my seats height and angle.  I bring this up because, about a month ago, I was feeling strong and climbed very hard through my hilly route.  I thought for sure I beat my personal best on that route.  But, it was only my second fastest.  The only difference is I took a potty break during that ride, so I think the Sigma takes short stops into its calculation.

Before the ride yesterday, I migrated from the Team to the Toyota the aerobar and the Fizik Alliante seat.  The Toyota came with Bontrager seats which is very thin and flat.  The Alliante has a bit more geometry and suppleness.  The Team has a stem that I think is 6degree up.  The Toyota has one I think is 17degree down.  So, the Toyota's handle bar is about 1" lower. 

Here are some of the ride differences I noticed during the ride. 

I found the peddling is more effortless and the ride less harsh.  I think it's because of the seat change. 

I also stay on the smaller chain ring (43t I think) on the crank about 75% of the time.  With the Team, I stay on the large chain ring (50t) 100% of the time. 

I think it's harder to stay in a tucked aerobar position for a longer period of time now because the handle bar is lower on the Toyota than on the Team.  Also, I think I am working out a wider range of my thigh muscle when tucking in lower.  So, I should get used to this new lower position after my thigh and lower back muscles get stronger with use.

Another thing to note is I used to stay in aerobar position when climbing up the hills most of the time.  Now it's half and half.  Part of the reason is because I am not used to the lower handle bar position.  But, it's been 3 weeks since I used the aerobar, so the "aerobar" muscles that I use for climbing probably atrophied a bit.  I could really feel the burn in my inner thigh when climbing hills when in aerobar position. 

Well, that's all the updates for now.  I think I will receive the Hutchinson Atom tubeless either today or Monday.  I don't think there's much to report on the GP4000s as I am using it on the Bottecchia which I don't ride aggressively and usually just use it for grocery runs.  So, the GP4000S definitely are overkill for that bike.

[viggen]

Oh I just want to add that aerobars are great especially when coasting down a steep hill.  There's a steep 3-4 mile drop on my hilly ride where I coast at about 25-35mph with some gentle pedaling.  It almost feels like flying when your whole upper half of your body is above the front wheel while traveling that fast and so effortlessly.

[jackman]

Hey cool stuff!  I love the feeling of a long downhill ride at high speed with little or no effort!  Not something I get to experience very often, unfortunately.

For GPS I would not recommend an iPhone.  Battery life is not good and its not ant+ compatible if you ever get a power meter. A power meter is the only way you can objectively measure your performance. I'm not saying it's worth the money but I love mine. I've been on rides where I've barely worked but my time was good and other rides on the exact same route where my time was bad (avg mph) but my power output avg was much better.

The new Edge 800 sounds like a good computer for you. It has point to point gps navigation and good battery life versus an iPhone.  Also Garmin connect is very useful. For long trips, the Garmin sounds like it would fit your needs well.

Cheers
Jack

[viggen]

Took a bit of hiatus from riding as was experiencing some cold like symptoms.  So, took my first ride with the Hutchinson Atom tubeless tires today.  Mind you that today is supposed to be a recovery ride as I still don't feel close to 100%.  But, I think getting some fresh air and sweating it out will do me some good. 

Well, first of all, I installed the tires a week ago.  It wasn't easy to get the tires onto the wheels.  My Ultegra wheels' rim lip seem to be just a larger in circumference.  I couldn't get the Conti GP4000s on it.  And, at first, I couldn't get the Atom on it either.  And, I have the Kool-Stop Bead Jack too. 

I searched the forums about getting tight fitting tires onto rims, and I found a post where a guy left his 90% installed tire on the wheel overnight then finished the job in the morning as the rubber got a chance to stretch.  So, that's what I did, and, with the Bead Jack's help, I got the tires on.  I pumped to 130 psi and let sit overnight.  In the morning, the front tire had about 40psi and rear tire had 80psi.  This is without sealant.  I think I might have damaged the front tire's bead when trying to force the tire onto the wheel?

As explained, I got a cold, so I didn't ride for more than a week.  During this time, I ordered a can of Caffelatex Espresso tire sealant.  It arrived yesterday.  So, I let the air out of the tires and used a single can to inflate both tires about half way and used a floor pump to finish the job.   I pumped up to 130psi and then rode around the block a few times to try to get the sealant to seal.

So, this morning, the sealant did an OK job on the rear tire, but the front tire is a bit weak.  Front had maybe 50psi and rear had about 90psi.  Anyways, time to ride, so I pumped both up to 100psi.

Took the PCH route today which is 33 miles.  Remember, today is my take it easy day.  My muscles feel ok but my breathing still bothers me.  So, I knew I would have hard time with high cadence or climbing.  That being said, I had my fastest MPH average (16.57mph) on this route yet.  No, I didn't pedal my heart out.  In fact, I tried hard not to put too much strain on myself in case I run out of gas before I got home.  It's the tires I say.  It's the tires.

It's so easy to spin up to cruising speed from a stop now.  AND, even the steep portions of the ride where I'd usually stand to pedal, I didn't have to.  I felt like whatever those grades are got cut by 25% to 33%. 

I can't believe the difference between this tubeless stuff and what I was using before (Conti Ultrasport with Conti butyl tubes).  Now, if only I can get the tires to hold air better.  I will have to play with more tire sealants (oh joy).  I hope I didn't damage my front tire's bead too much.  I did rip the rubber part that encases the bead by a mm or two.  You can't even tell it's cut unless you force it apart....

Regarding computers, I am on the fence about the Edge 800.  Deciding between the bundle or piece meal.  I like the black and white computer better as I don't like the blue which comes with the bundle.  And, I really don't like the idea of installing such a big computer on my bike.  I even refuse to use smartphones because of its size (and monthly data charges). Argh...

BTW, sold the Fuji Team Carbon.  The Toyota is now my only fitness bike.

[jackman]

Hey, it's interesting to learn about those tubeless tires.  I'm still too chicken because I like to be able to swap a tube and fix a flat if I get one during a ride.  Sounds like they are working well for you.

If you don't need GPS directions, get the Edge 500.  It's compact, useful and easy to use.  I love mine.  I've seen the 800 and it looks very cool.  When I have some money burning a hole in my pocket, I might spring for one.  Do you not like the idea of the big computer on the bike because of asthetics?  I know guys who are racers, with $15K bikes who ride with the old BIG Garmin units.  Even the biggest one is lightweight and doesn't mess with the aerodynamics enough to matter.  I love plugging my 500 into Garmin connect and tracking all of my performance parameters.  For training, the 500 is all you need.  For touring, the 800 is hard to beat. 

[viggen]

Well, the whole reason I am contemplating the Garmin is for the turn by turn navigation feature.  I wish I can get that feature in the 500's form factor though that might make it hard to read with the smaller screen and all.

Yah it's purely aesthetics why I don't like the 800.  It looks pretty bulky though I understand why you'd need a larger screen for navigating.  Just that I like miniature things in general.  You'd never catch me wearing big buckle belts or chronograph watches.  You should see the size of my amp. 

Also, I want to buy a compact crank as the crank on my Fuji is a 53/39.  Since the Fuji has Dura-Ace group, I am contemplating on whether to divert funds to a 7950 DA crank or a Garmin 800... decisions.... Of course, I can get an Ultegra crank which is supposedly just as good as the DA at half the price, but the aesthetics won't match.  Arghh...

I actually splurged on a Sony W995 feature phone a few months back because it has an embedded GPS chip which allows me to use GPS features offline.  However, I never got it to work right.  You have to use third party map applications...

BTW, just put in new sealant in the tires today.  Pumped it up to 100psi.  Will see how they hold up tomorrow.

Regarding the tubeless tire fear factor, I was like you as well.  However, after watching a bunch of youtube videos on how sealants work and reading up on tubeless on various forums, my fear level subsided.  The sealant seems to work very well.  Of course, I don't live in a high puncture risk area. 

[viggen]

Just caved and bought the 800 off Amazon...

[viggen]

Just reminded myself that I have a DA CS7800 12-27 cassette sitting around.  Installed it today and ride tomorrow.  Old cassette is Ultegra 11-25.  Hopefully, no more need for compact crank.

Also, the tubeless tire with sealant was pumped up to 100psi yesterday is still just as rock hard today.

[viggen]

Another update:

After about 5 days, the Atoms still have 90%+ air in the tires.  That's fantastic.  I rode today without even pumping the tires up first. 90PSI on tubeless is just fine with me.

Received the Garmin 800 today.  I don't know why I thought this computer is ungodly huge.  They look big in the stores and on the internet.  But, after holding it in my hands, it's actually a good size.

I removed the Sigma 1909 from my stem and replaced it with the 800.  Got both the mount's rubber bands around the stem and then found my first problem.  I can't get the 800 onto the mount because the aerobars does not permit the 800 to be inserted sideways. 

I have to remove one of the rubber bands and twist the mount in order to get the mount and the 800 to engage, twist and lock.  Probably not too safe riding with only one rubber band as the single band can stretch over time.  So, I will look into getting one of those aerobar computer clamps. 

Here's my first entry with the 800: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/93812845

Sort of out of shape because of a lingering cold.  Besides that, I lose my form easily because of a stiff left knee which has been operated on twice.  If I don't use it for awhile, it atrophies quickly, and I start favoring it.  So, today, I had to put extra pressure on my left leg. 

I feel lucky that my left leg started to feel good after about 14 miles.  So, despite some minor issues, I think I did OK today.  I think I need to get back on the rollers to get my form back.  My pedaling still doesn't feel too fluid at least not until the last 5 miles of today's ride.

Today's ride is a bit slower than a few weeks ago's although I have better wheels AND I am using a better cassette.  I was using an Ultegra 11-25, and I swapped it for a Dura-Ace 12-27 which should be better for hills.  I used to never go into the small ring with the 11-25, but I had a compact crank on my previous bike.  Today, I was on the small ring for most of the climbs.  Not sure whether its because of the gear ratio or whether I am still weak.

I do aspire to climb Mt. Baldy within a few weeks and been preparing gear wise.  It will be a 50 mile ride to the top of Mt. Baldy then 50 miles back.  So, I got extra water bottles, a packable windbreaker, a bib, and this GPS as I will need turn by turn navigation. 

I looked up the grades on Mt. Baldy, and it's about 10-15%.  I just calculated the grade on today's climb using Garmin Connect's data, and it's only about 5% at the steepest mile.  At least in my current condition, there's no chance I can make it up with the gear I have.  52/39 crank with 12-27 cassette probably won't cut it.  No way do I want to splurge on a new crank unless it's one of those old Shimano R700s.  I really need to stop spending though.

I stopped spending money on stereos for about a year now.  One reason is my current residence is very limiting in terms of space.  So, one consolation of starting back up this biking hobby is I wouldn't spend as much as I did with stereos. 

Months ago, I thought just how much could I spend on bikes?  I got one wheel, then seats, two new computers, some clothing, got a second commuter bike, got a third racing bike, got a repair stand and all the requisite tools, all the necessary components to restore my commuter bike to its former glory including derailleurs, chains, cables and a bunch of miscellaneous parts... when I think the spending stops, it doesn't.

With stereos, I drop a few grand here and there once every few months, and, most of the time, I get all my money back after I resell it.  With bikes, I am dropping a few Gs here and there once every few days.  Maybe it's just because I am in the early stages of this hobby so there's more to get, and I am impatient to get everything the way I want it. 

All I know is I am spending a lot of money to buy me some climbing!

[viggen]

I solved the issue with the Garmin 800 mount.  As explained in previous post, I couldn't mount the Garmin 800 on my stem because the aerobar prevents the Garmin from being inserted horiztontally.  I browsed the internet for one of those handlebar/aerobar computer mounts, but I decided to mount it on my aerobar's aero bridge. 

[jackman]

Very nice looking!  I have been off my bike for a couple days because of oral surgery (ouch) but hope to get back on tomorrow.  That Garmin mount on the aero-bar looks cool. 

Had a chance to check out a high-end bike shop today but didn't have proper clothes to ride any bikes, and my mouth is in bad shape from root canal.   Spending money in places like that is way too easy!  Your bike is looking good.  I look forward to hearing about your rides and new Garmin. 

Cheers,

Jack

[viggen]

Sorry to hear that you missed an opportunity to try out some new bikes!  This bike hobby is proving to be very dangerous monetarily. 

[Meicheng]

What the deal with that downward sloping saddle position.  Looks kind of cattywampus to me.

[viggen]

Latest Garmin update: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/94247458

I got on the roller to smooth out my stroke yesterday and felt really good afterwards.  So, today, I felt confident that I can ride a century.  So, packed 3 bottles and started pedaling.  As you can see in the Garmin link, I only biked 60 miles. 

I bonked at mile 40.  I think I lost too much fluids.  I did replenish.  Finished all 3 of my bottles and filled up some at a drinking fountain too.  But, lost 6lbs during the ride.  I am at 160lbs immediately after the ride which is the first time I reached 160 in 5 years. 

I had to sit on da curb to take 5 minute breathers 3 times after mile 40.  It was a struggle to make it back home.  I thought I caught a cold or got stomach flu.  After I got home, I weighed myself and determined it's the fluid loss.  I drank 2 bottle waters, a cup of OJ and lots of soup during dinner.  Feel better now though very tired still. 

The Garmin indicated the temperature broke 90 degrees F.  However, I think it's because it was sitting in the sun for too long while attached to my aero bar.  Weather.com indicated it's 75 degrees high today.  It got really cold while on PCH too.

Note to self: get the seat up closer to handle bar to the point my knee almost touched my elbow when in aero position.  And, play with higher angle stem.  Lower angle stem probably makes me hunch over too much and prevents my lung from expanding.  I couldn't breath well after 30 miles, but that could be a sign of dehydration.  Who knows.

[viggen]

What the deal with that downward sloping saddle position.  Looks kind of cattywampus to me.

That's what I figured felt the best yesterday after playing with various seating and aero bar positions for close to an hour. 

However, during today's ride, I moved it more forwards and a bit flatter sloped.  This works better on climbs.  In fact, on most climbs, my butt is actually off the seat most of the time.  I don't mean I am standing, but, when climbing in aero position, my body leans more forward to the point where my butt is barely touching the seat.  Need to move the seat even more forwards though the seat is near the end of its rails.  Probably need one of those curved seatpost to get the seat more forward which might result in less seat slope.

[JoshK]

I really curious about the tubeless route for road bikes.  What is the rationale?  I know what it is meant to do for mountain bikes and I guess some of that makes sense for road bikes too, like not flatting as much and lower rolling resistance. 

I am in the process of converting my MTBs to tubeless. 

[jackman]

From the looks of that bike and the description of what you are doing with the saddle position and bars, it sounds like you need a pro fitting.  When I first got into cycling, I relied on info from various websites, books, etc., to dial in my fit.  The results were pretty bad (numb hands, numb you-know-what, sore back, sore neck, really bad hamstring, sore knee, hot spots on feet, sore IT band, etc.). 

I tried to address the issues by using heavier padding on my bar tape, heavy padding on gloves, heavy socks and custom insoles, new bibs, chamois cream, etc.  Nothing really solved the problem...until I got a professional fitting.  The guy set me up on a trainer and made me ride for a half hour before he started looking at my fit.  He made minor adjustments to my bars, seat fore and aft position, height of my seatpost, cleat position on shoes, and swapped out my stem for a longer one.  Since my fit was so out of whack, I had to come back for a second fitting a couple weeks later.  They don't like to make big changes all at once but the way I had my bike set up (a combination of my personal adjustments and the ones done at my local bike shop with a non-pro fitter) was so bad, the pro fitter had no choice. 

It felt strange at first because he wound up moving my cleats towards my heals (away from toes) and moved saddle forward a bit (it was slammed back), and raising my bar position slightly.  After my first ride, I was amazed at how much "faster" my bike felt.  My rides up hills were much more effortless and I was MUCH more comfortable after long rides.  1.5 years later, I have no pain or discomfort at all, I don't wear gloves with padding or use padded bar tape and my feet have no hot spots or discomfort.  I don't even use chamois cream because I don't need it amymore.  The $ I spent on the fit was the best money I have ever spent in cycling. 

If you are riding on a bike that is not set up for you properly, you will be amazed at how much faster and more comfortable you will be when you get it set up properly.  I know guys who have spent over $300 for a pro setup but you can get one for much less.  I paid under $100 and have a guy in Chicago who is awesome.  Chicago is too far for you to travel but you should ask your local shop if they offer the service.  I'm not talking about a basic setup, all shops do that.  I'm talking about a pro setup, there are several companies who certify or train bike fitters on how to do this.  You are in California, I believe, and there are probably tons of guys in the area who can help you.  In my experience, this was the only way I could get a perfect fit on my bike.

A great fit is less of an issue for guys who ride under 20 miles per trip.  I didn't experience real pain until I started riding 40-100 miles.  On my first century, before my pro fit, I experienced really bad pain and numbness after mile 60.  My feet and knee were killing me, as were my hands and lower regions.  Until I got my bike dialed in perfectly, I didn't realize you could ride for 6 hours without any numbness or pain (aside from the unavoidable pain like muscle soreness).  The most expensive bike, wheels, shoes, tires, etc., are worthless unless they fit you properly and are properly set up.  I had to experience the effects of doing things the wrong way before I learned about the alternatives. 

Good luck to you!

J

[Badwater]

Latest Garmin update: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/94247458

I got on the roller to smooth out my stroke yesterday and felt really good afterwards.  So, today, I felt confident that I can ride a century.  So, packed 3 bottles and started pedaling.  As you can see in the Garmin link, I only biked 60 miles. 

I bonked at mile 40.  I think I lost too much fluids.  I did replenish.  Finished all 3 of my bottles and filled up some at a drinking fountain too.  But, lost 6lbs during the ride.  I am at 160lbs immediately after the ride which is the first time I reached 160 in 5 years. 

I had to sit on da curb to take 5 minute breathers 3 times after mile 40.  It was a struggle to make it back home.  I thought I caught a cold or got stomach flu.  After I got home, I weighed myself and determined it's the fluid loss.  I drank 2 bottle waters, a cup of OJ and lots of soup during dinner.  Feel better now though very tired still. 

The Garmin indicated the temperature broke 90 degrees F.  However, I think it's because it was sitting in the sun for too long while attached to my aero bar.  Weather.com indicated it's 75 degrees high today.  It got really cold while on PCH too.

Note to self: get the seat up closer to handle bar to the point my knee almost touched my elbow when in aero position.  And, play with higher angle stem.  Lower angle stem probably makes me hunch over too much and prevents my lung from expanding.  I couldn't breath well after 30 miles, but that could be a sign of dehydration.  Who knows.

Make sure you keep your electrolytes up.  If your electolytes get out of wack yuu will feel sick and very little energy.  The quickest fix is some salt.  A cheap and solution is use Suceed! Electrolyte caps every hour so. 

http://www.succeedscaps.com/