Gustard X20?

martinr · « **Reply #320 on:** 6 Jul 2016, 07:44 pm »

Can anyone provide a good link (or send me) the user manual and USB driver for Windows 10?

Thanks!

- Martin

ccklone · « **Reply #321 on:** 6 Jul 2016, 09:22 pm »

Hey Now,

It just keeps getting better and better. I did the 3 easy to do electrical tweaks. 1) wrapped fuse in copper 2) removed tranny bolts and used cardboard donuts and 3) cut the sheath from the power wires and twisted them. Took 30 minutes and it made an audible difference. It is clearer on the highs with a bit better definition, more airy. Need to mull over the other tweaks now 8^).

--
Finest kind,
Chris

ccklone · « **Reply #322 on:** 6 Jul 2016, 09:23 pm »

Double post deleted.

quadman · « **Reply #323 on:** 6 Jul 2016, 09:28 pm »

If you have read this thread you know I have modded 2 x20's. The full AC mod is very nice 80-85% of the full level 1 mod and definitely an improvement over what you have now. I also recommend damping those bigger power caps with the material Ric talks about over in the whats best forum, that very easy too.

I am still struggling with DSD 512, between other commitments and struggling to get the gustard to lock on the DSD signal with 3.3Vdc applied to the right pins on the PCIe. I think I solved that issue and hope this weekend I can finally give it a real go and see if that DIY DSD card can do 512.

quadman · « **Reply #324 on:** 12 Jul 2016, 04:35 pm »

Well I finally got the DIY DSD card to play DSD512, geeze what should have been a relatively easy project turned into a several week frustration nightmare. The final piece was gustard keeps making running changes to their dac as they go and one production is not necessarily the same as another production. Which, as you can imagine, makes it very difficult for DIY's to just tweak away. I was following Simon who has for weeks been playing his WAVE I/O card with great results direct into the I2S lines of the USB's PCIe module. First I messed up my ground connection for the 3.3 and 5V lines that the Gustard needs to see on the PCIe, I was only connecting one line to this "very important" ground and the other line to a different ground. You cannot do that both the 3.3Vdc and 5Vdc lines have to connect to the A3 PCIe pin, if they don't The dac won't switch into DSD mode. Simon finally cleared me up on that, sometimes the most obvious is so hard to see. Then I used the same DSD connections he used and I could not get the Gustad to lock on to a frequency, the display remain unlocked, wtf? Simon and I discussed and most of the symptoms I was seeing on the display we similar to his except he could lock onto a frequency and I couldn't. So yesterday I said what the heck and I switched the DSD clock and DSD R lines and I'll be darned the dac played music. I had previously switched the lines before, but that was when I did not have both voltage lines grounded to A3. So what should have been simple was made way more difficult due to my stubbornness to connect both voltage lines to A3 (there is more to that story than I type here) and faulty schematics from gustard or their constantly making little changes to circuits making it tougher for us DIY's.

Anyway the dac did lock and I up sampled music files to DSD512, Whoo Hoo Then I started to hear some periodic white noise like sounds (kind of like a motorboat or bumble bee changing speeds) when playing music, these could last from 5-30 seconds then go away and then re-appear. So I changed sampling rate to DSD256 and listened I had no strange sounds when playing at this rate. So I think it is one of two things. 1) my DIY low noise dual PSU is overworking driving this card and sending noise into the xmos chip or 2) the ESS 9018 dac chip is not capable of playing DSD512 smoothly. I don't think it would be related to my USB cable length from the PC to the dac (2m). So when time allows I will build a big boy psu and connect the DSD card to that to see if that solves the problem. I may also shorten my DSD I2S lines, DIY says that should be 50mm or shorter mine are probably 65mm. If either of those two don't solve the white noise issue then it may well be the 9018 chips may not handle DSD512 smoothly.

When the music was playing without white noise there was more air around instruments and performers, more presence to the vocalist. It was very nice and certainly to brief to make any definitive statements. I did listen for over 2 hours at DSD256 and felt there was more presence as well, more transparency and I was more involved in the music. I think Ric and Simon hit it on the head when they removed the USB cards and reported improved sonics. Taking that extra load off the Gustards digital PSU and switching it to a external PSU seems to have benefits. So even if I cannot get DSD512 to be stable I think I came out ahead in the end. More listening will clarify this situation.

I listened more last night (DSD256) and there is an improvement over the stock USB card. I attribute this to using an external PSU to power the DSD card and PCIe voltage lines. There is just a bit more transparency, presence and air. Leading edges are a touch more defined and the tonality remains spot on as far as I can tell. When will this dac stop improving? I am going next week to my buddies house and installing his gustard (that I modded and reported on) and custom PC with Roon and HQplayer. He has ordered new amps, pass Xa 100.8, and new tubes for his preamp CJ Art 3. His room is huge with a walk around sound stage. This should be a very fun project. I think he'll be very pleased. Wally of Wally set up tools will be there as well to dial in his TT, SME30, dynavector XV1t cartridge and top of the line pass phono. So the Gustard as DSD256 will go against a very well set up top of the line TT thats a few clicks above mine. That will be fun

Here it is DSD512 (low res phone image, sorry)

martinr · « **Reply #325 on:** 13 Jul 2016, 01:46 am »

All,

John M was nice enough to send me the users manual and I received the Gustard X20 Driver from Shen Zen audio (although I purchased the Gustard through Kidult Online through Amazon - I sent an email to Kidult and had the driver within minutes from Shen Zen....)

If anyone needs the Gustard Driver and manual I have them both in a 6 Meg zip file and can email them to you.

- Martin

martinr · « **Reply #326 on:** 15 Jul 2016, 01:22 am »

Gustard 20XU in da house burning in now! It will be a few more days before I receive Rich's (HAL MS-3) server...then the fun begins! I plan on upsampling to DSD 128 using foobar if I can. I'll post my impressions as this journey progresses

ACHiPo · « **Reply #327 on:** 15 Jul 2016, 05:57 am »

Enjoy!

mresseguie · « **Reply #328 on:** 15 Jul 2016, 06:25 am »

High five, Martin.

Remember, it'll take up to 200 hours to mellow out, but you ought to notice improvements before then.

quadman · « **Reply #329 on:** 15 Jul 2016, 01:08 pm »

Congrats Martin. Very few people take the Gustard seriously, You have chosen wisely and will really enjoy this dac. It truly is worthy of beginning systems to true Audiophile dream systems, it is that good.

ccklone · « **Reply #330 on:** 15 Jul 2016, 05:23 pm »

Hey Now Martin,

Well done. You have a made a great choice for a DAC. I am loving mine. I upsample all my PCM files to DSD256. A friend was over the other day and they could not believe how good it sounds. Enjoy.

--
Finest kind,
Chris

PeteG · « **Reply #331 on:** 15 Jul 2016, 07:52 pm »

Quadman, good write up and very informative.
For me, I'm waiting on an Singxer SU-1 (USB Interface), when It comes in I'll pull the USB card out of the Gustard, then I'll sit back and enjoy for a while.

quadman · « **Reply #332 on:** 15 Jul 2016, 09:05 pm »

Quote from: PeteG on 15 Jul 2016, 07:52 pm

Quadman, good write up and very informative.
For me, I'm waiting on an Singxer SU-1 (USB Interface), when It comes in I'll pull the USB card out of the Gustard, then I'll sit back and enjoy for a while.

A much easier option, for sure, maybe not better sonically but easier and should improve over stock since the Su-1 has its own power source. I think you will have to play with the dip switches to match Gustards I2S lines, but the switches make that pretty easy.

Looks like I'll be getting a Accusilicon clock, I plan to solder that in by the output board coax tower and power it from an external PSU. With this you don't need the coax cable and you benefit by putting the clock close to the dac chips which most designers do and you remove another component from the gustards power. Simon is doing this with a crystek clock and reports an improvement in sound. We'll see, that and my last attempt to get DSD512 stable with big boy PSU and shorter DSD wires.

jeffjazz · « **Reply #333 on:** 15 Jul 2016, 10:24 pm »

Been reading up the Gustard Dac with great interest. I am curious if it would be better to buy the X20 with out the USB card and buy my own card for better sound. I have been reading about all the newfangled little boxes that you can place after the computer and before the dac to get better sound. The Regen and the like.
It appears from what I have read that the new Xmos XU208 chips are the best available now to replace the stock Gustard Usb card. Not sure? The F-1 XMOS USB board that sells on ebay is one version. I have seen cheaper versions using the same chip the C-1 is one. The Singxer SU-1 uses this chip and the Dxio pro3 supposedly uses two of these chips.
I am running PC with a Intel Xeon E5450 cpu. 4309 passmark, so not sure if I will be able to get DSD at 256 out of it. I am running Daphile as the software. Haven't tried HQ player which may sound better but Daphile doesn't tax the Cpu as much I've heard. Many decisions here.
Want to upgrade from my Bifrost Uber Dac which sounds very good in my very revealing system.
Thanks to all the Audiocircle members in our quest for sonic purity!

DaveC113 · « **Reply #334 on:** 15 Jul 2016, 11:22 pm »

Quote from: jeffjazz on 15 Jul 2016, 10:24 pm

Been reading up the Gustard Dac with great interest. I am curious if it would be better to buy the X20 with out the USB card and buy my own card for better sound. I have been reading about all the newfangled little boxes that you can place after the computer and before the dac to get better sound. The Regen and the like.
It appears from what I have read that the new Xmos XU208 chips are the best available now to replace the stock Gustard Usb card. Not sure? The F-1 XMOS USB board that sells on ebay is one version. I have seen cheaper versions using the same chip the C-1 is one. The Singxer SU-1 uses this chip and the Dxio pro3 supposedly uses two of these chips.
I am running PC with a Intel Xeon E5450 cpu. 4309 passmark, so not sure if I will be able to get DSD at 256 out of it. I am running Daphile as the software. Haven't tried HQ player which may sound better but Daphile doesn't tax the Cpu as much I've heard. Many decisions here.
Want to upgrade from my Bifrost Uber Dac which sounds very good in my very revealing system.
Thanks to all the Audiocircle members in our quest for sonic purity!

I had a Bifrost Uber and I'd bet the Gustard is going to be in a whole 'nother league. My Sony HAP replaced my Bifrost and it's so much better it's amazing... I wouldn't be surprised if the Gustard outperforms the Sony IF the computer/streamer setup is done properly.

I'm in no hurry to replace the Sony though it will be interesting to see what the new ESS chip DACs are like, they should be on their way... from what I can tell they should be less sensitive to the streamer feeding them, might make the Regen and similar products unnecessary.

martinr · « **Reply #335 on:** 15 Jul 2016, 11:28 pm »

Here's an interesting USB cable upgrade that has recieved some rave reviews.....inexpensive as well!

http://usbdisruptor.com/

bacobits1 · « **Reply #336 on:** 16 Jul 2016, 01:15 am »

He got banned on CA 3X setting up new accounts for his pitch for what it's worth.
You have to try all this to see if there are differences.
The Regen here didn't do anything had 2 of them the Itona works but subtle.
Buy used!

quadman · « **Reply #337 on:** 16 Jul 2016, 03:12 pm »

I AM IN LOVE!!!!!!!........ with DSD512. The leap from 256 to 512 is much greater than the leap from 128 to 256. I am gobsmacked, grinning ear to ear about my experience last night. It might be the single greatest step forward I have ever experienced in high end audio, and there a been quit a few of those thru the years. I started yesterday by pulling my dac from the rack to check how much shorter can I really make the DSD lines, while I was examining that, I happened to notice my soldering job on the custom coax cable on the digital board was not my best work, I hung my head in shame. So I heated up the iron touched it to the wire and then slid over to the solder and got a really nice connection. Then for the heck of it I touched up the output side as well. When I started the music I selected DSD512, thinking I may only get a few minutes before the white noise would force me to lower the res down to 256. Well it was not totally stable, there was some random white noise from time to time but for the most part it was just blissful, wonderful music coming forth. Enough that I made a 6 hour listening session out of it. Now I am very determined to maximize all my I2s connections, ground connections and PSU to try to get it even more stable because I am addicted to that wonderful, magical sound.

How is it different? I don't think my limited audio vocabulary is sufficient to describe it, Jonathon Valin, Harry Pearson (rest in peace) Roy Gregory would do it much better justice than I. The background noise just disappeared, sounds emerged from the blackness with more presence and 3D palpability than I was accustomed to, and I thought I had a lot of that to begin with. The music was relaxed yet pace rhythm and drive was perfect. Tonality was spot on with that little extra detail that lets you really feel (see?) the technique, passion and skill the performer was putting forth. The geometrical space was the largest I have ever had in any system. Separation of the performers was at a all time high, combine that with the increased transparency and palpability and I just sat there jaw dropped enjoying every note that was being played. The random white noise did creep in and it was slightly annoying and a few times almost forced me to lower the res but then the music would come forth uninterrupted for several songs and all was great again.

This dac just keeps amazing me, Full Level 1 mod as per Ric, DSD512 card from DIYinHK and external PSU combined with DSD512 playback. I don't know how much $ you would have to spend on a dac to better this. This dac has nothing to be ashamed of against any dac at any price. Seriously if you want to take your Gustard to the next level get in touch with Ric and get the level 1 mod and then hope in the near future the DSD512 DDC's will be more common.

I am in LOVE!!!!!

quadman · « **Reply #338 on:** 16 Jul 2016, 03:26 pm »

Jeff That is a tough call, the gustard with stock USB card can be used immediately and it does sound very good, The Singxer SU-1 is a stand alone product with its own PSU and can connect via HDMI most other cards require some serious DIY stuff to work with the gustard. Not sure how your DIY skills are. The rewards of a stand alone USB card can be very nice but getting it to work can be frustrating. The reason I chose the DIY DSD512 card was because it is perhaps the only DDC card I know of that can upsamaple to DSD512 and if I was going to do it I wanted to try for the max, knowing DSD256 is not a bad fall back option. For the $ saved, or spent, I would go with the stock USB card and then wait a bit as more cards will be coming out with DSD512 capability that will probably be much easier to implement in the gustard.

Quote from: jeffjazz on 15 Jul 2016, 10:24 pm

Been reading up the Gustard Dac with great interest. I am curious if it would be better to buy the X20 with out the USB card and buy my own card for better sound. I have been reading about all the newfangled little boxes that you can place after the computer and before the dac to get better sound. The Regen and the like.
It appears from what I have read that the new Xmos XU208 chips are the best available now to replace the stock Gustard Usb card. Not sure? The F-1 XMOS USB board that sells on ebay is one version. I have seen cheaper versions using the same chip the C-1 is one. The Singxer SU-1 uses this chip and the Dxio pro3 supposedly uses two of these chips.
I am running PC with a Intel Xeon E5450 cpu. 4309 passmark, so not sure if I will be able to get DSD at 256 out of it. I am running Daphile as the software. Haven't tried HQ player which may sound better but Daphile doesn't tax the Cpu as much I've heard. Many decisions here.
Want to upgrade from my Bifrost Uber Dac which sounds very good in my very revealing system.
Thanks to all the Audiocircle members in our quest for sonic purity!

martinr · « **Reply #339 on:** 17 Jul 2016, 10:47 pm »

So I started setting up HALS MS-3 Server and Gustard DAC today...it took me a few hours but I successfully ripped my first redbook disc and played back using Foobar through the MS-3 server and Gustard at DSD 128! All I can say is WOW! Great resolution and sound. THe Gustard has not been burned in yet through the USB output...right out of the box it sounds very good! Now I need to master Foobar....Pretty Cool that we have the capability to reproduce music that sounds this good.