AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: mlundy57 on 1 Jan 2017, 01:28 am
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Normally H-Frames have the amps housed in separate amp boxes that sit on the floor. I have a commission to build a pair of triple 8" H-Frames with the amps installed in the cabinets. These are not going to be used as stands so height is not a limiting factor.
The amps are going to be A370XLR2s housed in a fourth chamber under the bottom driver.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155651)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155652)
I'm building these with dadoes for the baffles and cross braces. Here is a shot dry fitted. The black dots are going to be holes for wiring to pass through. All three drivers will face forward so I only need wire holes on the back.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155653)
Main part of cabinet being glued up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155654)
Gluing on a bottom
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155655)
Jig for flush trimming the tops and bottoms across the openings
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155656)
The jig works pretty well
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155657)
Normally the front and back of H-Frames are left open. However, since these are going to have an amp in the back, and therefore a corresponding cavity in the front, these sections need to be covered so I have a surface for the veneer. At first I thought I'd add pieces inside the openings but it soon became evident I couldn't do this in such a way that I could be sure the veneer had a flat surface.
To fix this I decided to add a solid piece of MDF the front and back as face frames.
Ahhh clamps, love those clamps
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155659)
Stay tuned, more to come.
Mike
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I like that concept. Going higher is easier often than reserving extra floor space and looks less cluttered. Do you expect any issues with the center of gravity lifted up due to the weight of the drivers?
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Nice clean work as always Mike. Please keep the pics coming.
Best,
Ed
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I like that concept. Going higher is easier often than reserving extra floor space and looks less cluttered. Do you expect any issues with the center of gravity lifted up due to the weight of the drivers?
Not really. These are heavy, the cabinets are going to weigh in around 100 pounds each without the drivers and amps. The weight of the amps will help in the back and I am installing boat drain plugs in the bottom of the lower front cavity. That way additional ballast can be added down low if needed.
Nice clean work as always Mike. Please keep the pics coming.
Best,
Ed
Ed,
Will do
Mike
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Cool Mike
Dadoes sure help in assembly huh ?
what veneer will you be using ?
Keep the pics coming !
jay
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Cool Mike
Dadoes sure help in assembly huh ?
what veneer will you be using ?
Keep the pics coming !
jay
Jay,
Yep they sure do.
The client hasn't picked a veneer yet. We are somewhat limited due to the height of these cabinets. To get a continuous piece up one side, over the top and down the other side I need a 4' x 10' sheet of veneer. This limits the choices. Originally he wanted curly figured black cherry. I couldn't get it in 10' lengths with a flexible backer (to roll over the top edges) so he is currently deciding between the options I have been able to find.
Mike
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Nice :icon_twisted:
Just one problem Mike...too many clamps :icon_lol:
Happy New Year fellas.
Best,
Anand.
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Nice :icon_twisted:
Just one problem Mike...too many clamps :icon_lol:
Happy New Year fellas.
Best,
Anand.
Blasphemy !!!!!!! or is it Heresy? I always get those two mixed up :lol:
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Off topic but they had a tad bit of chilly weather back in my home town before Christmas
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155661)
Mike
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Mike
once again Mother Nature does her incredible artwork
saw this on MSN, saved the picture
and hats off to the incredible creations of yours
Happy New Yard
Gary / Revg1952
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duh fat fingrz sorry happy New Year
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Think you have a little bit more room for some additional clamps... :D
Looks great. Looking fwd to seeing the final result
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Time for some more pics:
Front and rear facer boards glued on and ready to be trimmed.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156155)
Flush trimming, especially when there is a decent overhang to remove, makes one heck of a dusty mess. That's why I usually do it outside. Unfortunately the weather has been a bit brisk (OK so 4 degrees F is a little more than brisk) so I needed to come up with a way to do the trimming in the garage without creating a cloud of sawdust. This jig works very well. The main port by the bit is connected to a dust collector and the through port for the router is connected to a shop vac. Between the two 99% of the dust is captured.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156159)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156156)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156157)
Here is a cabinet after the flush trimming
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156158)
Next I laid out where the openings were
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156160)
Then drilled relief holes in the corners of each section
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156161)
For the jigsaw
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156162)
All openings rough cut with jigsaw
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156163)
Now I had to flush trim the openings. Unfortunately the jig wouldn't work. for one thing, it was too small to span the openings and keep the router from tipping. I picked up a piece of phenolic board and made a large subbase for the router.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156164)
With the addition of a palm router with a pattern bit for one edge of the amp opening that did not have a sidewall I got all the openings cleaned up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156165)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156167)
I also got the grill frames cut out
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156168)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156169)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156171)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156172)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156173)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156174)
I have also recently acquired a few, new to me, pieces of equipment. First is a Walker-Turner cabinet saw. Older than I am, solid as a tank, smooth running, quite and with enough torque to cleanly crosscut 8/4 walnut like butter with a full kerf blade.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156175)
A Jet 8" helical head jointer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156176)
A Jet 15" helical head planner
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156177)
Ana a Delta drum sander
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156178)
Now I need a bigger garage :o
Mike
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I'm going to start coming over on weekend!
What you really need is a HEPA quality or external exhaust collection, sawdust&chip collector, for your health.
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I'm going to start coming over on weekend!
What you really need is a HEPA quality or external exhaust collection, sawdust&chip collector, for your health.
Jeremy,
I have a HEPA air cleaner mounted to the ceiling and use a HEPA filter in the shop vac. I also have most of the parts needed to build a cyclone style extractor. I just have to get off my butt and build it.
External exhaust would be nice except for two minor issues. First, no matter which wall I went through there would be a problem. On one side are my air conditioning compressors and the other side is my front sidewalk. Second, the garage exterior (as well as the whole first floor of the house) is stone.
I'm dreaming of a new workshop... :green:
Mike
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Now I need a bigger garage :o
Mike
As i was reading the post and admiring your new acquisitions I was thinking exactly the same thing :lol:
Nice problem to have :beer:
Cabinets are looking good too man
jay
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Jeremy,
I have a HEPA air cleaner mounted to the ceiling and use a HEPA filter in the shop vac. I also have most of the parts needed to build a cyclone style extractor. I just have to get off my butt and build it.
External exhaust would be nice except for two minor issues. First, no matter which wall I went through there would be a problem. On one side are my air conditioning compressors and the other side is my front sidewalk. Second, the garage exterior (as well as the whole first floor of the house) is stone.
I'm dreaming of a new workshop... :green:
Mike
It can be a big challenge. For awhile at a place I worked at I wanted to make it so we opened a garage door to vent, whenever we were running the huge collector. Basically making a false wall right behind the garage door, and then we'd just pull the truck up to it to load from a bin instead of bags. It never happened so I wore a f'ing mask 70% of the time I was in the place.
That tablesaw looks pretty nice. A good fence is the world! And being able to cut wide... but I'm with you, more space is best. I prefer almost a 10' square to have the tablesaw mounted into so I can run sheets & big stuff through it like it's no thing.
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I picked up one of the lift tables from Harbor Freight yesterday. It only lifts up to 34" so I still have to pick the cabinets up six inches to get them on the router table. That's not too difficult. The lift table that would have allowed me to slide them straight onto the router table was almost twice the price ($500 vs $270).
With this I was able to put 3/4" roundovers on the cabinet edges without much strain. I also was able to get the roundovers done on the grill frames before the rain came in.
Here is a shot of the back of one of the cabinets. The driver wells have been dyed black. The A370 XLR2 amp is set in position so I could line up the grill frame. Once I had the frame taped into position I drilled pilot holes through the frame and into the cabinet to mark the magnet locations.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156295)
Mike
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A little more progress:
Magnets installed for the for the rear grill frame shown in the previous post
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156406)
Here are some pics of the overall progress:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156407)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156408)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156409)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156410)
If you look closely at the right hand cabinet in the last pic you can see some black circles. These are the magnets epoxied in.
Mike
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Very nice work Mike. How were you able to get 8 inch drivers? I spoke to Danny a couple of months ago and he didn't have any and he didn't know when he would have them in the future. I'd like to get the 8's.
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Very nice work Mike. How were you able to get 8 inch drivers? I spoke to Danny a couple of months ago and he didn't have any and he didn't know when he would have them in the future. I'd like to get the 8's.
They were in the 3x8 H-Frames I took to LASF in 2015. After that show I built the dual 12" Wedge bases I took to LASF last year. I prefer the 12's so was willing to sell my 8's for use in this build.
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OK so I am going to use 2x12 in my set up so it sounds like that is preferable to 2x8. I was thinking 2x12 would be overkill and wanted to try a 1x12 but never seen that done before. Keep the pics coming especially the finish work!
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It's been awhile. Seems like I have been working on these forever. They are finally finished and were delivered to their home on Wednesday. The last two months were spent trying to rub down the poly so it looked good, giving up, sanding the poly back to bare wood, applying 8 coats of the Emtech 6000 water borne lacquer then rubbing that down. Here are some pics of how they turned out.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164374)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164375)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164376)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164379)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164380)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164381)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164382)
Here is one next to an N3TL to give you an idea of size
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164383)
Finally I had to pack them up. Due to the weight they had to be crated. I started off by wrapping each cabinet with three moving blankets
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164384)
Then I stretch wrapped the cabinets to prevent the blankets from sliding
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164385)
Next came the crates
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164386)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164387)
I lined the crates with 1" foam boards and slid the speaker in
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164388)
Then I taped the grills to the speakers and built up blocking material out of additional pieces of foam boards to secure the speakers so they couldn't move
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164389)
Then I laid the crates down, blocked out the top and finished off the packing with a large piece of the 1" board
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164390)
After that it was just a matter of screwing the tops on, loading the crates in the truck and dropping them off at the shipper. Loading them took a little planning since they weighed 235 pounds each and I had to load them by myself. That lift table has been worth it.
They arrived at the client's home on Wednesday and he wasted no time getting them hooked up. They are being paired with Maggie 3.6s. In addition to the speakers I built him an in-line filter to keep the bottom octave off the Maggies. He emailed me today. He doesn't have them completely dialed in yet but is loving what he hears. In addition to the bass, filtering out the low frequencies is allowing the Maggies to sound better than ever while drawing considerably less current than before.
Definitely another open baffle bass convert.
Mike
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Mike,
Although I am impressed with your triple 8 inch sub build on its own, I am even more impressed with your packing skills. I sincerely hope the new client paid you for that because that is white glove treatment door to door! Some manufacturers should consult you on this!
Stupendous work!
Reminds me of packing my sub (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=148369.msg1586980#msg1586980) for the new owner, it has to go via DHL and carried out like heirloom furniture. There is no other way.
Best,
Anand.
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Gorgeous work all around, Mike. Wow! I bet they sound great too.
Chuck
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Great work Mike, all the way through packing, outstanding. Thanks for sharing.
Best,
Ed
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Great work, Mike. Over the years I've watched your work, you've gotten more and more professional. I'm very impressed.
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Now THAT'S the way to do things---correctly! Excellent work, my man.
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Looks great. :thumb:
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Thanks all.
Yes the client paid for the packing. The crates, packing material and shipping from Tulsa to Florida came to $855.
They do sound very good. The drivers sound a lot better in this cabinet than they did in the smaller H-Frame that I used under the Wedgies. That's because the wells for each driver were 2" deeper on these cabinets. The deeper wells (8" vs 6") allow these speakers to play lower and louder than they did before. Danny designed the 6" depth for use with the Wedgies which crossed at 200Hz. The higher the crossover point, the shallower the driver cavity need to be. These speakers are being paired with Maggie 3.6's and will be crossed over is in the 60-80Hz region. This meant the driver wells could be deeper which allowed for the improved low end performance.
However, unless I can come up with a way to safely handle and easily maneuver large heavy objects this will be the last pair of speakers I build that are this big and heavy. I was able to handle them fine during the construction but once I started applying the veneer they became a lot harder to deal with since I now had to be careful not to damage the veneer and later on the finish. It takes two people, or special material handling equipment, to handle cabinets this size safely and easily. I don't have either.
Mike
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I guess the client buys the idea that a smaller woofer (8" instead of 12" GR driver) is "faster" than a larger one. A lot of panel owners hold that opinion, but as Danny Richie has pointed out numerous times, while that may have some validity in the case of "normal" woofers/subs, the OB/Dipole Sub is anything but normal! It may be that he is costing himself the extra output and perhaps lower frequency range that two or three of the 12" woofers would have given him. Anyone heard both the 8" and 12" version?
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In this case it was an issue of physical space. The cabinets for 12" drivers are 4" wider than ones for 8" drivers. While his room is good size, the layout of the wall his system is on is tight to a window on the right and a doorway on the left. The additional 8" of space would have the left speaker part way into the doorway and they didn't want to have to walk around it everytime the entered or left the living room.
While daual 12's do have more output and presence, these 8's are so much more than what he has had with the Maggies that he is extremely pleased. It was a tradeoff, the best bass he could get while still fitting into the space available.
I've had both the triple 8's and dual 12's. I prefer the dual 12's as long as you have the room for them.
Mike
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Thanks for the explanation Mike, that makes perfect sense. Planars (whether magnetic-planar, ESL, or ribbon) and OB/Dipole Subs---my kinda speaker!
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Great build. Has your customer posted any feedback on the integration with his 3.6's ?
Also, why is s/he crossing over @ 60-80Hz. The 3.6's should go to @ 35Hz.
TIA
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Great build. Has your customer posted any feedback on the integration with his 3.6's ?
Also, why is s/he crossing over @ 60-80Hz. The 3.6's should go to @ 35Hz.
TIA
He loves them.
While the 3.6's go down to 35Hz, they are pretty thin below 60-80Hz. Also, using the in-line filter to keep the 3.6's from having to deal with the lower frequencies allows them to play the frequencies they play well louder and cleaner and reduces their power consumption. He says they barely even twitch the needle on his power amps any more.
Crossing them over higher allows each speaker, the sub and the 3.6, to do what it does best. The result is a seamless, balanced, effortless sound from 20Hz up.
Mike
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