AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Planar Circle => Topic started by: mcgsxr on 21 Jul 2015, 06:03 pm
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Have played with lots of different dynamic and OB speakers over the years, but could never shake a moment I experienced around 20 years ago with a big set of Maggies.
Although i am in the middle of a significant renovation at the house, and really do like my Totem Model 1's, when a local set of MMG's came up at an agreeable price, I figured I had to go for it... especially having picked up a Crown XLS1500 recently, I figure I have no excuse NOT to buy these. :lol:
Won't be able to hear them for at least another week, but below is a quick shot before I wrapped them up in plastic to keep the drywall dust from settling on them. No work being done in the basement, but the dust gets everywhere eventually.
Best part of this? Burying the cost of speakers in my house reno!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125027)
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It's about time, I've been tired of leaving the porch light on.
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Totems and Maggies...can't go wrong!
Congrats on joining the club...Maggies changed my life
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Come on in, the water's fine.
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Planars are addicting!
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Thanks boys, been a long time coming for sure.
Like any good audio nut, I could not wait. :oops:
I have begun experimenting with placement, and can tell already that these will require commitment to exact their best.
I will install carpet friendly feet on both couches in the family room section of the basement so I can move stuff into the ideal listening arrangement, but easily return it to "normal" for family movie night or pool playing time.
I currently have these 30 inches off the front wall, 5.5 feet apart, and am about 9 feet from them. That only requires moving 2 tables, a couch, a loveseat and the listening chair...
I will be able to move it all out of the way to try 4-4.5 feet off the front wall in time, but cannot during the madness that is going on all through the house due to a water leak and subsequent repairs.
Listening to these vs the Totems is interesting. I will give them some more time, but this is a very different kind of presentation, and I want to learn more about it before suggesting what those differences are.
It will also take a little time to dial in the sub amp and Crown gain to ideally get this working.
Good fun so far!
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Here is what the MMG's look like properly setup. 36 inches off the front wall, 27 inches off the one wall on the right.
Had to put slider feet on the couch and loveseat so i can slide them out of the way for more serious listening.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125109)
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You just can’t go wrong with a pair of MMG’s properly set up. Enjoy..
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Further experimentation with placement leads me to find that the best position for me is 24 inches off the right wall, 29 inches off the front wall, speakers 7 feet apart, listening chair 8 feet from the speakers, and significant toe in.
I will drop a few pieces of tape on the floor to mark their ideal location, so i can return to this setup when I can do serious listening.
Good stuff.
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@mcgsxr,
I see in your pics that you also run a home theater set up. Have you had the need to relocate your sub(s) when using the mmgs?
steve
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Good eye.
There are actually 2 subs. One for each system. They are totally separate, sharing only the room. There is a media closet in the back of the room where all the HT gear lives. I will move the 2 channel gear into that room in time. I just need to run another set of in wall speaker cables. I installed a conduit during the build of the room, so I just need to take down the TV to do so when the time comes.
The beige grill cloth on the wall beside the white built in houses my HT only sub. It is a large DIY 2x12 woofer job that I buried inside the wall during the construction of the space 2-3 years ago. Super effective for HT, it really fills the room nicely. It CAN play OK as a music sub too, but with the fixed location it is not ideal.
The black box on the right hand side is my music only sub. I have shifted it around some, but find that simply turning it to fire in the same direction as the MMG's does the trick. When I use the Totem Model 1's I fire the sub across the room.
I am still tuning in the Xover and volume for the music sub, but got very close last night.
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Looking good ! Maggies continue to represent one of if not the best value in speakers I know of ……...
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Looks good.
If you DIY a bit, build some stands for those puppies, and you will notice a big improvement.
Better detail, more focused image, tighter bass/midbass.
Something like this (these aren't mine):
(http://images.audioasylum.com/usr/y2011/07/49997/004.JPG)
Wood works equally well.
I built something similar out of wood for some MGIIIa I picked up recently. Cost me about $60, but the improvement was worth 10X that investment.
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Looks very nice!
I've owned a variety of both dynamic (boxes) and Maggie models over the years with my first real serious system in the 80's being a TT into a Bryston 0.5B preamp/3B combo into SMGAs and it was the most fun system I think I've ever owned.
If one has the room to let them breathe, even if it means moving them into a decent location when they are used, those MMGs are a super bang for the buck speaker.
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Here is what the MMG's look like properly setup. 36 inches off the front wall, 27 inches off the one wall on the right.
Had to put slider feet on the couch and loveseat so i can slide them out of the way for more serious listening.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125109)
That's so beautiful I can actually hear them playing through the picture
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And to throw another wrench in the mix, try the tweeter array on the outside. Wider soundstage, less precise imaging. Seems to be equal numbers on each side of the inside or outside fence. I went both ways, changing when I got bored with one presentation.
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That's so beautiful I can actually hear them playing through the picture
I find that with mine I like the Eeyore blanket for older recordings and Tigger for metal and pop. Piglet sounds sweet, but the soundstage is smaller.
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I find that with mine I like the Eeyore blanket for older recordings and Tigger for metal and pop. Piglet sounds sweet, but the soundstage is smaller.
lol nice :thumb:
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Free "acoustic treatments" are the life of a father of 2 girls. You should see the pink housecoat I toss over the listening chair since it is above my ears!
Enjoying the MMG's. Selling my Totems. There is a set of 1.6QR's locally.
Must....resist....upgrading! :lol:
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Free "acoustic treatments" are the life of a father of 2 girls. You should see the pink housecoat I toss over the listening chair since it is above my ears!
Enjoying the MMG's. Selling my Totems. There is a set of 1.6QR's locally.
Must....resist....upgrading! :lol:
The MMGs are great...I loved my two years with them. But the 1.6s are soooooo sweeeeet :thumb:
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Don't resist, you'll be glad you didn't.
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I bought 1.6s on CL for an in-house audition. MUCH better in my room than ML Quests, stacked DQ-10s, and even a borrowed pair of Sound Lab 'stats.
Go for the QR!!!! :thumb:
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Thanks for the "support" boys!
Picking them up tonight. Once I realized they include the Mye stands, I was in.
My best friend came over last night (we have a weekly standing pool game) and he is an audio guy, so he always likes to sit down for a couple of songs whenever I bring something new in.
We built him some 2 way floor standers around 10 years ago that he still uses in his study today.
One song into the MMG's he turned to me and asked - what did these cost again? He is strongly considering moving the 2 ways to his cottage and buying the MMG's off me.
Figured it was only fair to pass along the "support" after all! :icon_twisted:
We will see what the 1.6's deliver in my room, and what setup exploration is required. I remain committed to moving furniture for the other activities my basement is for, so I am sure I can find a spot that makes me smile.
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Nice to hear Marc
Have you heard from any of the boys lately
Nice to hear the Maggies if I'm up in your neck of the woods
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Way to go!
steve
PS: if your buddy doesn't want your MMGs, I'll bet they make great surrounds for your AV system.
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Way to go!
steve
PS: if your buddy doesn't want your MMGs, I'll bet they make great surrounds for your AV system.
That they do, much better than the MMG-W speakers. Add some hinges to the wood side strips and you're in business.
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I will likely leave the HT system alone, I am happy with the wall mounted Paradigms all the way around. I like having the 2 channel system separate too.
Here is a pic of the bigger Maggies in place. Pooh Bear remains of course!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125525)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125526)
I will start a new thread as I play around with placement for the 1.6's, and sort out what I think the differences and similarities are while I still own both.
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That was a quick upgrade! Killer speakers. Those XLS seem to love Maggies.
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I picked up the MMG's as they were available locally, and I wondered if I would like that sound.
Once I heard them properly driven and setup in my room, I started to wonder what the next step up the line would be like.
The Totem Model 1's are the best stand mount I have owned. I sold them to move to the bigger 1.6's once I heard the MMG's.
Having read a lot of the threads around here about what people think the differences might be between the MMG and the 1.6 I won't start another thread about it, but will say that for me there are a few material differences.
The MMG's are a wonderful speaker. Once nailing the setup in the room, and integrating a sub, they produce a glorious 3D soundstage, lovely timbre, and bring a musical performance into the space.
The 1.6's for me are a more hifi experience of what the MMG's do. More detail, more tone, an increase in effortlessness, can play louder (if you like, I don't listen very loud myself), and they play much lower in the bass on their own.
I tune my subs by ear, and I run my mains full range. Nearly always have. The 1.6's in my room can get 90% of the bass right for 80% of my music running full range with no sub. Bringing the sub in carefully underneath them adds the presence and weight of big instruments, or synth. The sub is barely running, but it makes a marked difference in how the lowest notes underpin the soundstage.
I am running an old Yamaha sub with a pair of 7 inch spruce paper cones. Nothing special at all. But it does not need to do much, it just fleshes out the weight of the lowest notes.
What amazes me about both sets of Maggies is how pedestrian I find they sound until you nail the setup. The 1.6's took me longer, and for a period there I was thinking I may not need them. Then I found a spot roughly 4 inches wider and 2 inches further from the wall from where I had placed the MMG's and it all just came together.
The robust Crown brings all the juice I need, and the Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 works nicely as a front end.
As a lover of music I could absolutely live with the MMG's in most rooms. Since I have the space, and the 1.6's already here, I will certainly keep them. I like the taste of the high end experience that they deliver.
Recommended to try if you ever can. You may not love it, but once you find that sweet position for your room, I don't doubt you will find it a pleasing musical presentation.
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Agreed on the 1.6s. I've heard them and they're all that. No room to make anything but the MMGs work in my room, though. Well, maybe the .7s if I can hang them properly. ;)
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Once you get the 1.6s (and 1.7s) set up right they're just very addicting.
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Jack I love how you worked those MMG's into your room! Having only daughters I cannot relate, but my nephews are rambunctious when they come over.
Still working on ideal placement for the 1.6's. I found a spot for the MMG's that just transcends musical reproduction. The 3D soundstage is staggering with the smaller panels. My best friend continues to assert they are better than the 1.6's.
Found a spot last night for the 1.6's that bloomed, we will see if I can nail it. I tried tweeters in but prefer tweeters out so far. Playing with toe in.
Thankfully the Mye stands make sliding the Maggie's around the carpet fairly easy.
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Thanks Mark! I have only daughters as well, but this is a small place and you know how elaborate those improvised ballet moves can get. Nothing is safe. :)
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i find that i like my MMGs more than 1.6s. my friend had 1.6s for a short while, and also 1.7s and i find that the MMGs weere more satisfying. also, the same friend had MG12s which were more in line with the MMGs. add a sub like a HSU and you're in business.
i didn't find it hard to integrate.
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Given the challenge of quickly swapping speaker cables (gotta love those "binding posts" on the Maggies), I built up a 2nd set of speaker cables.
Now with banana plugs on the amp end, I can more rapidly swap the MMG's in their best position, with the 1.6QR's in their best position. Taped out markings on the floor for both speakers and listening position, so with the help of a friend I can now start deciding which set of speakers I feel is best for me.
I use an old Yamaha sub with both - the MMG's need a little more from the sub than do the 1.6's, but it is not hard to get it right.
Good fun.
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What you will find is that the MMGs are much more forgiving of what else is in the chain.
While you're swapping speakers around see if you can't manage some amp and preamp swapping as well.
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Interesting suggestions.
At present I have only 3 possible amp choices - Pioneer VSX-1018 AV receiver. Yamaha RX-797 2 channel receiver. Crown XLS 1500. Not sure either the Pioneer or Yamaha are worth swapping in, to be honest.
I don't run a preamp - my Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 runs straight into the Crown XLS 1500, and I use the music replay s/w to moderate volume.
I do find that the MMG's produce a glorious soundstage, whereas the 1.6's deliver much better treble detail and bass.
The real thing I am trying to discern is - which do I like better in my room, with my gear and series of required compromises. I won't suggest that my experiment will reveal much to others, but it will guide which set of speakers I keep!
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I built up a 2nd set of speaker cables, and have spent some time taping out where each set sounds their best, and where the listening chair needs to be to get the best out of each.
I spent the last 4 days straight just listening to the MMG's in their best spot. Then this AM I swapped in the 1.6's.
I have verified for myself, that the 1.6's deliver for me. I had some concerns that the MMG's delivered more magic in a certain spot, but have put that to bed.
I sold my Totem Model 1's after buying the MMG's. They are that good. I then bought the 1.6's and have determined that I have the room and ancillary equipment to let them shine even more.
I have no doubt that in some rooms the MMG's could be a better speaker. In mine, I am enjoying the 1.6QR's more.
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I'd reach the same conclusion, I suspect, but since I can't fit anything larger than the MMG, I won't do myself the disservice of going to hear bigger ones any more. :) In the absence of such comparisons, though, and with a nice sub to fortify the bottom, I'm hard-pressed to find fault with the MMG's - can't put my finger on anything I'd change. So I'll just enjoy the bliss resulting from my ignorance. :thumb:
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An update around placement.
I have tried the 1.6's out as far as 5.5 feet from the front wall. That is as far as I can go before my listening chair hits the pool table at around 7-8 feet from the speakers.
I don't find it any improvement over my fav position - 39 inches to the panel from the front wall. I have them toed in around 3 inches (meaning the inside is 39, and the outside is 42 inches), tweeters out, 64 inches between the panels, and listening distance of 7-8 feet (7 feet if the chair is upright, about 8 feet if it is reclined).
In that placement, I get a good presentation from the 1.6's. My best friend continues to find the MMG's more satisfying, but freely admits there is less bass and treble. I prefer the 1.6's.
I do integrate a small Yamaha sub. I run the Maggies full range, and just bring in the sub at 40Hz. The volume of the sub is very low, and I only notice it during electronica etc. It just adds support to the foundation of the music for most of my collection.
Going to try adding a preamp to see how that goes. Found an older NuForce unit for a good price, and it has XLR connections so I can give the Crown XLS the signal it prefers too.
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The fun part - finding out what works best together.
I just could not get the Crown amp to work with my 1.7s/Sonic Frontiers combo no matter what I tried.
It does work perfectly with MMGs/Carver C1, though. I really couldn't ask for anything more.
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The MMG's have been sold. To a nice guy in Nebraska who owned a set of SMG's that had some issues. He does some audio blogging so perhaps I can get him to join us over here when his new speakers arrive.
Looking forward to playing with new gear in time,must have to admit last night was an awesome listening session with my existing gear.
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The MMG's arrived but were mildly damaged during transit. Some delamination of the some of the wires. I was initially concerned about that, given how some transactions deteriorate but am pleased to report that we both stayed in close contact and worked it out. I refunded an amount of his specification, and we are both cool.
I continue to really enjoy the 1.6's. I do find them an obsessive delight for positioning. I have tried them WAY out in the room, close to the front wall, 90 degrees away from me etc, but keep coming back to 40-41 inches off the front wall, tweeters out, mild toe in (2-3 inches).
They sound best to me there.