[morganc]

Lower end of the high end DACS that I have loved include: 

Audio Mirror SE (longest running DAC in my system at 2 years now and only desire to upgrade when I get a massive cash windfall)

MHDT Orchid

MHDT Atlantic

IMO it’s like I expressed in another thread, audiocircle is different than other audio forums in that listening, experimenting, fine tuning and synergy are emphasized alone with healthy skepticism.  Some sites focus on measurements and some on the most expensive gear possible. People here are also respectful of budgets and I’m pretty sure every walk of life is represented here. Some mega bucks guys and others not so much.

As in all aspects of life, synergy is the key.  Synergy between room and speakers, synergy between components, cables etc. and that can only be experienced in your room with your gear. 

My secret:  I buy current model only that is hot on the used market, from reputable sellers only.  I started doing this a decade ago and went way overboard at the start as I was young and had lots of cash. In doing that I got to listen to dozens of amps, pres and DACS and heard first hand what I liked.  I also compared what I heard to what others here heard and what reviewers wrote about the gear. Now I mostly no longer read reviews and instead have found a group of internet audio buddies who I know share the same tastes as me because I tried it all!  Now I listen to their experience and no longer buy and sell so much. 

Another thing that I learned:  make friends with your local audio community.  I bought and sold items, went to shoot outs and audio parties  and in so doing made some amazing in person friends that now a decade later are some of my closest friends.  Their ears were much better than mine.  I could not hear little changes from one cable or piece of gear to the next but when I heard a system that was dialed in, boy did I notice that!  So I would just mimic what they did and in so doing, a few changes over months led to massive improvements.

So welcome to the journey, and good luck.  I’ve had some major illnesses the last few years and honestly my music and system has been a big part of my healing journey.  Music soothes the soul. 

[morganc]

That's OK. Most of us started out skeptical. Audio ain't logical and much of it can't be explained technically, so it's practical to be cautious. None of us jumped into audio knowing we'd spend as much money as we have. Lots of hobbies are like that.

There's only one guiding principle: EVERYTHING in the audio chain can improve the sound of your system. This extends from the wire in your walls (dedicated lines) to the room itself (acoustic treatments). Because it requires extensive experimentation in your home and with your ears, this principle can take many years to sink in.

   

Exactly and the flip side of that logic:  anything can be a bottleneck therefore making it challenging to hear improvements with certain changes in the audio chain.

[jjss49]

i think the notion of what dac works with what speakers is a bit misguided, at least in a vacuum...

to help us to help him, the op would hopefully be able to describe what sort of sound he likes and what type of music he listens to alot, and how the speakers currently sound in his room (we shall assume that they are set up well) and in what direction he would like to 'move' the sonic signature with a change in dac

if op is coming from a schiit modi or a dac inside a rotel cdp, there is plenty of sonic upside moving to a good outboard dac

[Bingenito]

I cant speak to synergy with Spatial Speakers but in general dacs do make a material difference. That doesnt mean that you need to overspend. I have heard dacs that I enjoyed for $550 used and others that are outstanding for many times that. All depends what you are going after.

For example I once owned an MHDT havana $500 used with nos tubes and it was lush, holographic and large soundstage. Worked well with maggies in my room. The dac sound and speakers complemented one another. That said I would likely not pair that DAC up with a warmish sounding speaker.

There are many dacs in the new $700-$1000 range that do a really nice job and avoid the law if diminishing returns. Just a matter if what flavor you are after. What I find as you go way up in DAC prices… generally speaking is that you get that fullness, meat on the bone midrange but tons of resolution and not at the expense of ever being bright.

Others will likely disagree but sonically I do not think we are seeing massive leaps in DAC performance YoY. I see interface improvements with i2s. If you have an i2s source as I do then obtaining a dac with that input has some merit. At least as one factor in the decision process.

[Chewbacca]

I moved up from a Eastern Electric Minimax Plus MK2 with Burson V6 OP amps (huge upgrade in itself) which uses dual 9018 Sabre chips, to a Musical Paradise MP-D2 MK3, with all the goodies, which uses dual 9038 Sabre chips. The upgrade was night and day. The bass was far superior - don't think more bass. Think texture. Clarity. Grit. Depth. & Clean Clean CLEAN. This is basically the same throughout the whole frequency range. I can give it all the audiophile terms, but I'll spare it. It's just better. Way better. It sound SO close to vinyl, it's silly. My main regret with getting it is I went from 90% vinyl 10% digital, to 25% vinyl and 75% digital... I think in time I'll be 50/50. But it's stupid good. This was also comparing with my previous bookshelf speakers, which are nothing compared to the NX-Oticas or the Spatial X series - which will showcase these differences much clearer. It does not make the sound more "surreal" it makes it more real. Much more real. In my system, questionably real when you're in the room. Or you leave the room, and you swear there's instruments playing just around the corner.

In my opinion, which on this site has been disputed lol, is that DACs are the most overturned item in a system simply due to the fact that there's computer chips which will evolve much faster than a speaker driver, or capacitor, or tube for that matter... Yes yes, class D amps are evolving quickly as well. But, personally I've limited myself to about $1k on a DAC, which I expect to sell after about 5 years, and expect to only get about 25-50% return on investment. With a used (as I buy most of my gear) preamp for example, I expect to be able to sell them at the same price if not more than what I bought it for... Just how I work my budget in the system! I got my MK-D2 from a fellow AC member locally for a great deal, and it was one of the greatest single improvements in my system. Highly recommended!

[radarnyc]

For example I once owned an MHDT havana $500 used with nos tubes and it was lush, holographic and large soundstage. Worked well with maggies in my room. The dac sound and speakers complemented one another. That said I would likely not pair that DAC up with a warmish sounding speaker.

Daryl - if you're interested in something like this, I just listed my upgraded MHDT Havana with some great WE tubes.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649809178-upgraded-mhdt-havana-dac-with-extra-great-tubes/

[morganc]

Daryl - if you're interested in something like this, I just listed my upgraded MHDT Havana with some great WE tubes.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649809178-upgraded-mhdt-havana-dac-with-extra-great-tubes/

Great Dac.  One of my favorite audio buddies in LA who is in the music biz uses this one in his $50k system and I’ve never heard a better system. 

[Bingenito]

What he said ^

Proof that throwing money at a problem doesnt always solve it. My DAC today costs 8x the Havana but I wouldnt hesitate to use it again. I got totally out of hifi for 10yrs and when I came back I looked for one but they are rare on the preowned market.

[Daryl Zero]

Daryl - if you're interested in something like this, I just listed my upgraded MHDT Havana with some great WE tubes.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649809178-upgraded-mhdt-havana-dac-with-extra-great-tubes/

I'm working now but would like to do a bit of research on this.

[Bingenito]

You should. The key to happiness is knowing yourself and what you like/ value. Audio diversity and there is no absolute best anything!

If you tend to like a full holographic sound with roundness to it or if you are in the Show me the details camp. Polarizing views to make a point. I myself choose the middle because I have super diverse taste in music and can be listening to some audiophile recordings 1 min and Five Finger Death Punch the next so I want the detail and resolution but dont want to lose that full bodied midrange or have my ears assaulted with edgy treble.

I own a Denafrips Terminator II now but never heard an Ares II DAC. No idea if you should cross shop that vs the Modded Havana. For me the MHDT rode that middle line well were delta sigma based designs leaned more to the show me the details camp… not all of the way but right of center enough that I had a preference. With something like an Elac debut I like the Topping and SMSL as those Elacs are super polite and need a kick in the pants. A more transparent speaker with flat response I like the other options.

Side note… Piano Dreamers FFDP cover albums rock!!!

[doggie]

So far with my X5's I have tried (in order) an MHDT Orchid, a Denefrips Pontus, a Denefrips Terminator2, a Denefrips T2 with a Hermes DDC, and now a Lampiztor Baltic 3.

I found the Denefrips to sound good but somewhat "digital"/artificial. The Orchid is a great bang-for-the buck DAC with a tube output.

Th Baltic 3 is an endgame DAC for me. It has the best USB input I have ever used and you can dial in the sound quite a bit by tube rolling. You can easily buy NOS tubes that best the ones that come with it. They are cheaper, sound better, and are more reliable than most "new production" replicas.

BTW. I play music at it's native resolution. I find it to sound more natural and less artificial. I have not found upsampling to sound better. YMMV!

[aniwolfe]

I use a Lumin T2 with my Spatials. No complaints at all.

[rooze]

It's hard to get philosophical over a machine that processes 1's and 0's. Anyone thinking that a $5,000 power amp will sound better than a $500 power amp, but a $5,000 DAC won't sound better than a $500 DAC, is wrong - at least in principal. The same basic rules apply to DACs: better design, better components, better power supplies, etc, generally produces a better sounding product, for which you should expect to pay a premium. (as always there may be outliers which are exceptions to this basic rule).

Quite a few people are using Denafrips DACs on this forum, and it seems, with Spatial Audio speakers - and for good reason, IMHO - since Denafrips DACs sound good. My experience is with the Terminator range. Keep in mind that with the Terminator, as one moves up the T-line, you're exchanging a little added warmth for resolution. The original T with DSP upgrade is an excellent match for the X3 in my system. This speaker needs pairing with something a little on the fleshier side of neutral (in my room/system) and the original T with DSP board is a good fit in that regard. When I plug-in the Denafrips GAIA DDC, the trade-off begins. The DAC/DDC combo becomes more resolving, more focused, more detail-oriented, but loses a little warmth and body. I can regain some of the warmth by switching the T into NOS mode.
Anyway, I like the Denafrips Terminator. It was a nice improvement over the very good Moon Audio 380D.

[minatophase3]

I use a Lumin T2 with my Spatials. No complaints at all.

I am using a Lumin T2 as well with my M4 Sapphires, sounds great!  Currently using the T2 as my preamp.

[Bingenito]

I agree on the Denafrips comments above. To add to that I would say that a Terminator II with a native i2s source like my Jays CDT2 mk3 via a customized ethernet i2s output using a wireworld pure silver ethernet cable is ridiculous. I run the CDT outputting 176.4 on redbook and it smokes any high res music that I have heard. The dynamics and presence are much more real than streamed music. Sort of out of scope of this thread so my apologies. 

[JTF]

I've tried a few DACs with my X5s. MHDT Orchid, Schiit Modius, Schiit Bifrost 2, Holo May KTE, Holo Spring 3 KTE w/preamp, and currently I have a RME ADI-2 FS and a Matrix X-Sabre 3.

For me, other considerations are just as important as the DACs performance. Aesthetics/build quality, the user experience, and the potential to streamline the chain with a built in pre and/or streamer. For those reasons, my favorite to date was the Spring 3 mostly due to the good preamp module. I regret selling and it and I'm thinking about circling back to it.

Right now I'm trying out the Matrix, it has the potential to check all the boxes for me, great performance and build, easy to use, nice and simple streaming. The only exception, and it's a big one is that I hate the volume control, so I'm probably going to get rid of it. The RME also performs as well as anything, but the menu system is maddening, that one is also going up for sale soon 

I'll also note that for the money the Schiits are worth looking at, if you simply want a basic DAC. I found that the Bifrost in particular was satisifying, I think I had it in my system the longest out of all those mentioned. 

[rollo]

One way to find out is to drop one in to your system and listen.  With speakers as revealing as the X5's, if there's a difference, you'll hear it.

  Exactly. I would recommend finding a DAC that compliments the character of the X-5. Then listen to it. Take a look at Recommended components to get an idea of price and sound. What Amp are you using, that makes a huge difference as well.


charles

[RonP]

I don't have any of Clayton's speakers yet, but I am using the Cambridge Streamer with Dan's Mod.

Tubes + fully balanced outs! Sounds amazing.

http://www.modwright.com/modifications/cambridge-cxn-v2-tube-modification.php

[geerock]

#chewbacca
Plus 1 on the Musical Paradise tube DAC.  A wonderfully designed unit by Garry Huang  Mine has the upgrade of Crystek Femto clocks, and I liked the AK4497 chipset the best.  For you folks out there I've owned DAC's that were 6x the cost of
this unit.  You can use 6 or 12 volt signal tubes and 5 or 6 volt rectifiers by just hitting a switch.  I have a Holland built Philip's rectifier from the 50's and e88cc Telefunken's in the signal path.  The caps also can be changed by the user with no soldering required.  I like to use Vcap ODAM's or Mundorf Silver / Oil.  It also has user changeable chipsets.  I stream from a SGC streamer and Roon Core, to a Sonore optical Rendu and link to the DAC via a Mad Scientist Audio Black Magic USB to a Don Sachs pre to an LTA Reference 40 Plus to X5's.  A couple other tweaks and power conditioners and I'm hearing some stunning music. If you're in the market for a DAC take a look at the MP.  At around 1100 bucks it's a killer value.

[Daryl Zero]

Just as an update, I purchased the used MHDT Havana and sold the Schiit Modi.

I have the speakers I want (X5s) and I'm happy with the amplifier (Rogers High Fidelity 65V-2) and the DAC seems fine. The DAC came with extra tubes and there was a bit of time where the speakers sounded harsh and I changed tubes and that seems to have solved things.

I seem to tend to want a more lush and full sound so I listen in triode mode exclusively and now with the tube DAC, I think that's achieved.

Thanks to all that responded. I would appreciate any update if something new and great comes along that isn't super expensive.