[OB_Newbie]

ALERT!!! PE Flash Sale - The Dayton Audio DAEX30HESF-4 High Efficiency Steered Flux Exciter with Shielding 30 mm Exciter 40W 4 Ohm is on sale for $15!!!

And I JUST ordered a set for $45... this is BIG savings guys and while I have not listened to a set yet, I will be able to report soon on how it sounds and measures compared to the other panels in the collection! Stay tuned!


btw - Thanks for the input above Odal!  I had the new 40W dual steel suspension exciter fall off too.  The VC/flanges are slippery as they are made of heat resistance material for high power handling but have had good luck with the Elmers Max Advanced or whatever its called... its slow drying but has been uber reliable so far for me.

[Odal3]

I had them in my cart a few weeks ago too but had second thoughts due to the price, and I'm now glad I did. In for a set or two. This is about the same price I paid several months ago but this is the first time the price has dropped since.

Instead of the 40w I got the lower powered version. Think its the 24W version and I will this weekend play around with multiple of this exciters on one panel. There were a lot of discussion a long time ago and the conclusion was that multiple exciters hurt the sound. That has not been my experience - at least not when using multiple 5W exciters. My 4 exciter on one panel is still one of my favourite panels. I'm not claiming it is better just not worse to my ears. I also remember they talked about creating a force area between the exciters in one of the tectonic videos. 2 x 24W is more power using lighter exciters than 1 40w exciter for about the same price or less. Need to double check if this translates to force as well. Anyways, will let you know how it goes.

The bad news is that I'm now tearing down my stained slim panels from my living room wall - sound is too thin as I mentioned before. It's a pity, because even my wife liked the LOOK. I even caught her bragging about them to a friend. On the positive side, I have super good sound with a 2 x 4 panel.

Any updates on using some of the pucks for bass duties?

Will need to check out that glue

Btw - you should check with PE for a price correction.

[OB_Newbie]

I'm stocking up boys... this is too good to pass up.  The 24 watt is a good sounding exciter... and the smoooothest I've measure so far.  I ordered 10 of those too and when buying in that qty, they are dirt flipping cheap.  Only bad thing I can say; after one fell off a panel (I was sanding the back side of a panel with it attached and hanging upside down... so good reason why) I noticed that the voice coil is sagging. Mostly due to the speaker wire and gravity pull it down.  So these and the 40 watter might need a *light* spline mount to help with this!   

Guess I'm set on exciters for a while.  Can't wait for the holidays and playing with these things.

I to am trying multiple exciters per panel but routing grooves (front and back) to separate a large panel effectively into 2 panels and mount them and opposite ends/sides on the panel.  Dividing ought to help with the high freq. cancellation between the exciters but hopefully not completely uncouple the lower bass frequencies.  Also, changing the mounting position of the exciters should help smooth the freq. response. 

Also want to try cutting routing a smaller panel between the large panels for a separate, small voice coil exciter to extend the high frequencies that might be lost with the dual panel/exciter combination.

Hey... just a thought on the thin sounding wall mounted panels... why don't you try a BSC crossover circuit on your wall.  PE has some buyout inductors that should work and resistor are cheap.  For $10 in parts that might give you good results.  anywhere from a 1.5-2.5mH inductor would work fine.  Then grab a few pairs of resistors in the 2.5-6 Ohm range. 

If you are not familiar with BSC, the resistors are used to control exactly how much the lower mid-range to high frequencies are reduced.  The lower the coil, the lower in freq. the attenuation starts.  Oh heck, do a quick Google and you will find plenty.  There is an on-line BSC calculator I think, should help though may not be perfect as it likely assumes a flat impedance curve.  Anyway... something to try.  But curious too.... is there damping behind the panel?  I found that to be a huge help.

Gotta run!

[Odal3]

Sounds like you are setting up a warehouse 

Thanks for the idea. I did try electronic cross over and eq but I had to reduce everything too much. Since I already get a 10db hit with my ply panels it was too much to eq them down even further. Measuring close had the panels drop around 120 to 130 but when at listening position the drop started in the 350 hz range. Maybe the issue is also that the panels are too close to the wall. Either way - didn't matter how I adjusted them, I couldn't get them even close to performance of the wider panels. I will take them down for now but I haven't completely given up on them.

Btw: did you ever damp the back of the exciters to reduce the metallic sound?

Very interesting with your routing grooves in the panels. Are you basing the shapes on the Styrofoam speaker you brought up before?

[osssyvan]

You get all the fun across the pond!

Too bad I can't find that exciter in Europe. Anyone?

I brought back my ply panels and I really like their sound. I managed to measure my panels from around 1-1,5 m away. Not ideal setting but good to test them. My light frames did not survive the transport too well so there was some resonance. OB is from different location but my my there is some LF boost on that one. No wonder the ply does not sound right after listening to that for a while.

I will try testing ply with OB woofers at some point to see how they feel. I've also come up with a design I would like to do for the ply panels but I think I have to do some testing with different sizes to find the ideal. I think something more narrow but taller could work design wise but I am afraid what that will do the freq response.

Sorry I have nothing on shakers. I've been ultra busy and they have missed my radar.


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EDIT: can't get the pics to work. Anyone know what I am doing wrong here ?

[sedge]

Osssyvan
Something is wrong at the moment ,can't access any pictures at this time?
Steve

[osssyvan]

Now they are showing. I did exactly the same thing than on last post. I was thinking of U-frame but I still need to think about that. I think I will have to google how commercial panel speakers look-like and see if there is anything interesting.

ply and treated xps



ply and ob

Osssyvan
Something is wrong at the moment ,can't access any pictures at this time?
Steve

[sedge]

Ob-newbie
The difference between the eps and the ply db is even larger than the xps.
What with the heavy damping of the xps and the rolling off of hf on the larger 40w exciters, your measurements show the early roll off at around 4k to about -10 db at about 9k ,if I remember rightly,as I can't access pics at the moment,thinning the panel in front of the exciter area might help this by increasing the direct  output of the exciter,i have done this with the 5mm xps it's just a thought .
Steve

[OB_Newbie]

Broken lead is what I have seen if I don't count the Ultras that bottomed out. The other thing to point out is that the mounting flange of the heavier 40w exciters are really slippery and glue or VHB tape doesn't stick as well. This is dispite rough sanding the flange. I have had several fall off. On the other hand, my 5W exciter has a much better flange surface that things stick to much better.

Hey Steve!  My measurements do not match my Omnimic measurements so these are not accurate I'm afraid... haven't had the time but got out the mic and did a quick measurement of cardboard and noticed that my (REW) preference settings were back to defaults and wrong.  Didn't have the time to get it completely sorted but have to think it was using my laptop mic... also the soundcard calibration is not right so have some work to do in REW yet.

Disregard the measurements and should only be used as a general comparisons between exciters and panel material.  My measurements from the other night showed much closer to my past Omnimic measurements with the typical, better HF extension.

Didn't have much listening time to the cardboard or compare against other panels but they sounded really nice with the Dayton 24 watt High Eff. exciter... smooooooth with a simple notch filter in the 400-800Hz range.  This on a Dollar Tree Tri-fold cardboard (with wings removed) treated with the PVA/water treatment.  Can't wait to listen more after the exciters break in.  Very hopeful... 

[Odal3]

I also got one of the DAEX25FHE-4 mounted late last night and WOW! this may be the best one I have tried yet - at least for low volume listening. Very clean and "articulate". Haven't had a chance to play it loud yet and since I am only "allowed" to play xmas music today  I don't yet have a good feel for the bass. Will play around more today when I can sneak in some non-holiday music.

[OB_Newbie]

I also got one of the DAEX25FHE-4 mounted late last night and WOW! this may be the best one I have tried yet - at least for low volume listening. Very clean and "articulate". Haven't had a chance to play it loud yet and since I am only "allowed" to play xmas music today  I don't yet have a good feel for the bass. Will play around more today when I can sneak in some non-holiday music.

Thought you might like that.  I noticied on XPS that t adds a little panel noise and just seemed due to a powerful motor so had hoped it would be good on the cardboard panels I've been putting together.  Its kinda hot in the lower mid-range but very easy to make sound good with EQ.  As a matter of fact, a passive notch filter might be enough to make this a finished and very nice sounding exciter on cardboard and ply and not bad at all on XPS.

What panel size/material do you have your mounted to?

[Odal3]

2 x 4 birch panel. I'm also testing it out on a smaller panel where I glue a thin XPS board and a thin birch ply together - to get is light and sturdier. Wood is forward and I sanded a large circle through the XPS on the back (size of my oribital sander)so I could mount the exciter directly on the wood. When I put the exciter on the xps - it didn't sound so good. Need to play it a bit more to assess - but initial impression is OK - perhaps a bit over-dampened.

[OB_Newbie]

Dang...I guess I should have asked what you tried first.      To bad you couldn't get them to work as well on the wall.  I am thinking the same and got a nice little Dayton sub to implement with small wall mounted panels.  That project is on hold for a bit... want to work on that multi-panel/exciter set first.

Btw: did you ever damp the back of the exciters to reduce the metallic sound?

No, I didn't try dampening the back yet.  Have to find a good material to paint on.  Latex paint (multiple coats) would probably work but hope to find something that will do the job with just 1 coat.  Otherwise, I think I will be adding a light spline (somewhat flexible) to attach the exciter to.  Ought to remove most of the ringing if it is indeed a resonance from the metal case. 

Very interesting with your routing grooves in the panels. Are you basing the shapes on the Styrofoam speaker you brought up before?

Not so much the shape from the Bertagni panels... but inspired by the Bertagnis.  More so... its easier to build as a single panel instead of 2 panels and having to join them.  Want to test this approach and see if there are indeed benefits to a single larger panel divided.  Though if I implement a dedicated high frequency panel I am still considering cutting it out of the larger panel and suspend it with some type of light suspension material.

Looking forward to the holidays to play!!!   
 

[sedge]

OB_newbie
It's not just your measurements that show early roll off of 25mm xps ,others also show this,even osssyvan,s last pics show early roll off above a 6k peak,can't see the db scale but it drops heavily,we really need to see some good plots showing hf extension to at least 10k without EQ ,the 25mm does this with no problem .

This is an old picture from my gallery ,it is a 25mm 2x5ft EPS panel with the Mic at 12ft into the room,no thinning of the panel in front of the exciter area,notice the drop above 10k then flat to 20k ,this I believe is caused by the thickness of the panel,you will also see the response from about 300hz to 10k is well within +and -2.5db with no EQ .
The ply panels I have also show high output above 10k ,so am surprise to see the drop in HF with osssyvan,s pics,this is why I am a little suspicious of the combination of 30mm exciter and xps ?
Hopefully some new measurements can clear this up
Steve

[Abelma]

-

[OB_Newbie]

OB_newbie
It's not just your measurements that show early roll off of 25mm xps ,others also show this,even osssyvan,s last pics show early roll off above a 6k peak,can't see the db scale but it drops heavily,we really need to see some good plots showing hf extension to at least 10k without EQ ,the 25mm does this with no problem .

This is an old picture from my gallery ,it is a 25mm 2x5ft EPS panel with the Mic at 12ft into the room,no thinning of the panel in front of the exciter area,notice the drop above 10k then flat to 20k ,this I believe is caused by the thickness of the panel,you will also see the response from about 300hz to 10k is well within +and -2.5db with no EQ .
The ply panels I have also show high output above 10k ,so am surprise to see the drop in HF with osssyvan,s pics,this is why I am a little suspicious of the combination of 30mm exciter and xps ?
Hopefully some new measurements can clear this up
Steve

My old RTA measurements show the XPS and Ultras to be well extended... as did Omnimic.  In any event, I will have time over the holidays to get this straightened out.  But to your point, we will certainly get better high freq. extension with a smaller voice coil... absolutely no doubt. 

I have small exciters on the way and hope to combine with some of the high power exciters.  For the next build, I am going to see what can be done to create a thin(width), smaller sized panel!  More of a challenge, but want to see what can be done.  Planning to combine with a sub anyway so low freq. extension isn't a requirement.         

Ahhh, finally building a multi panel, framed and FINISHED DML panel!!  YES!

[osssyvan]

Steve,

I will try to get some new measurements on some different place and distance. The ply has drop between 8,5k and 11k and then gets back up until 14,5k. I am going to cut the panels roughly to 60x90cm and see what happens. I will also test some exciter placements to see if I get any better results. This will have to wait after christmas I think.

There is of course the high chance that I don't have everything set up well in REW as I am trying to learn the whole process.

-Ossi

OB_newbie
It's not just your measurements that show early roll off of 25mm xps ,others also show this,even osssyvan,s last pics show early roll off above a 6k peak,can't see the db scale but it drops heavily,we really need to see some good plots showing hf extension to at least 10k without EQ ,the 25mm does this with no problem .

This is an old picture from my gallery ,it is a 25mm 2x5ft EPS panel with the Mic at 12ft into the room,no thinning of the panel in front of the exciter area,notice the drop above 10k then flat to 20k ,this I believe is caused by the thickness of the panel,you will also see the response from about 300hz to 10k is well within +and -2.5db with no EQ .
The ply panels I have also show high output above 10k ,so am surprise to see the drop in HF with osssyvan,s pics,this is why I am a little suspicious of the combination of 30mm exciter and xps ?
Hopefully some new measurements can clear this up
Steve

[sedge]

Abelma
Wow ,no problem with size of panel then,glad your still enjoying the sound of exciter panels,once you have listened to the sound it's hard to stop.
OB_newbie ,osssyvan.
Great look forward to seeing some good pics.
At the moment I'm still playing around with different types of ply panels ,single exciter panels only,I'm trying out things that didn't work with eps but seem to work with harder heavier panel materials.
They tended to kill the sound of eps ,but seem to improve the sound of ply and another hard panel type I've had lying around for some years.
Eps and ply type panels work in a totally different way,to get good sound that is,this all came about because I've been trying to make a panel for pro use,I've totally surprised myself with the performance I'm getting at the moment,strong output down to 30hz still good output down to 25hz ,still strong output above 10k but this is easy to EQ ,but mainly the sound has more life and excitement then the basic ply panel,I've gained a few db too,so the 10watters are having an easier time ,and not getting so hot.
My house is filling up with even more test panels :duh:when will it all end
I'm going to set up some more panels and see how it goes ,if everything goes well I'll post my results.
Steve

[sedge]

Sorry abelma, I had to laugh when I read that the drivers have to be installed on the face of the listener
I just had this thought of someone sitting in a chair with an exciter nailed to his head
But I do know what you mean,this doesn't work well with eps but have tried this with ply with some success.
When I first hear the podiums I thought they sounded better from the back(exciter side), more lively sounding.

But It is interesting that you say this because I had the idea of using the hdn-8 exciter ,which has a screw that would go through the panel to the other side,connecting the exciter to both front and back surfaces .
Your exciter is bolted on the front and the back ,so would have hoped the sound would travel equally through the front and back surfaces,I presume this clamping does not do as I had hoped ? Any thoughts on this subject welcomed.
Steve

[Abelma]

H