discontinued amplifier B100 is missing

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frank1199

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discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« on: 25 Feb 2024, 08:59 pm »
On the Bryston website you can find all models under the discontinued amplifiers except the B100 SST. Does anyone know what the reason is?

Regards
Frank

GrooveControl

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #1 on: 26 Feb 2024, 03:54 am »
I always wondered if any significant difference from the B135, other than the new dress panel and a few more watts?

Phil A

Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #2 on: 26 Feb 2024, 12:56 pm »
If one goes to hifiengine.com and signs up (they have all kinds of audio manuals for free download as uploaded by users), the download of the manual is free

frank1199

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #3 on: 26 Feb 2024, 07:51 pm »
The instruction manual is not the problem. I have them. My point is that such a “gap” doesn’t fit with the product’s longevity requirements. After all, the B100 often still has a warranty, so it should also be included in the list. Is it a mistake or intentional to leave a device unmentioned?

In addition, the entire area "discontinued" is not available in the moment.

This page doesn't seem to exist.
It looks like the link pointing here was faulty. Maybe try searching?

frank1199

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #4 on: 18 Mar 2024, 07:45 pm »
Still not available...

https://bryston.com/discontinued/

James Tanner

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #5 on: 18 Mar 2024, 07:56 pm »
Yes we have removed it from the website - working on a new website.

james

Phil A

Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #6 on: 18 Mar 2024, 07:59 pm »

frank1199

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #7 on: 18 Mar 2024, 09:20 pm »
Yes we have removed it from the website - working on a new website.

james

Then you should remove the link in the footer of the website. Otherwise it's completely unprofessional.

frank1199

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #8 on: 18 Mar 2024, 09:21 pm »
I actually found the brochure on the Bryston site - https://bryston.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/BP_MPS2_B60_B100_DAC_BROCHURE.pdf

Oh thanks. There's some helpful information in there

R. Daneel

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #9 on: 19 Mar 2024, 12:46 pm »
I always wondered if any significant difference from the B135, other than the new dress panel and a few more watts?

Hi!

The B100 was based on the 2B power amp (not the 2B-LP though - that's an important distinction to make) and BP16 preamp.

The B135 was based on the 2.5B power amp and BP17 preamp.

The 2B and 2.5B are essentially the same but the BP17 is better than BP16. I doubt, however, there were significant differences in sound quality. If I owned a B100, I certainly wouldn't bother upgrading to a B135. Not that it matters as B135 has been discontinued also. Apparently, there is no market for "small" amplifiers and all of us have concert halls for music rooms.

RonN5

Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #10 on: 19 Mar 2024, 01:25 pm »
R.Daniel

I think you may be on to something.  Unless a "low" power (under 200 watts) amplifier is tube...or specialty like First Watt (and a few others), they seem to have a hard time being resold on USAM and other market places.

It seems crazy: the perceived volume difference between 100 and 200 watts is very small and very few of us are listening at 95+db.

Do we all really need 200, 500, 1000 watts?

James Tanner

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #11 on: 19 Mar 2024, 01:49 pm »
Hi Folks,

Yes in the early days our 2BLP 50 watt amps and B60 50watt integrated sold well.
But I would say over the last 5 years or so sales have essentially stopped for us in the power range.
I think the issue for us is the cost to build a 50 watt amp or a 100 watt amp is almost the same (when you build gear the way we do) so the 50 watt amp does not compete.

Maybe a Class D small integrated would make sense in the future?

james

Riverdalium

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #12 on: 19 Mar 2024, 02:02 pm »
It could be a good entry level product into the Bryston brand if the product is developed with an upgrade path. Perhaps with pre-out it would allow the addition of larger amps down the road, or the ability to get a second one to designate one for each channel.

R. Daneel

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #13 on: 20 Mar 2024, 11:52 am »
In my opinion, class D has no place in an audiophile system.

Class D makes sense in systems where space is at a premium and where heat dissipation and power consumption can cause problems - systems like car stereos and 19'' rack-mount amplifiers to drive large PA systems to high SPL levels from a relatively compact rack with kiloWatts of power.

Granted, class D has come a long way since late 1990s but if it is that good, why aren't there any class D phono or line preamps or even headphone amps?

Also, I have a problem with manufacturers using someone else's class D modules in their amplifiers. What do you really get when you buy an amplifier like that - when the main function of the device is performed by 'a module' made by someone else?

Then along comes service and long-term support for the product. Once the OEM stops making or supporting the module, you're done! Of course, being heavily dependent on semiconductor industry, if something fails after the warranty has expired, good luck finding a specialist to fix your expensive kit.

Needless to say, I don't like the idea of a class D integrated amplifier.

Speedskater

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #14 on: 20 Mar 2024, 12:27 pm »
a] Class "D" amplifiers have come a long way since the first generation amplifiers. Because Class "D" amplifiers amps are used in many products other than hi-fi systems (products like cell-phones & hearing aids) progress has been rapid.
b] Class "D" is about power in a small space with low heat. Not useful in voltage stages. Wireless headphones use Class "D".
c] Class "D" is ideal for receivers and integrated amplifiers.

R. Daneel

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #15 on: 20 Mar 2024, 06:03 pm »
a] Class "D" amplifiers have come a long way since the first generation amplifiers. Because Class "D" amplifiers amps are used in many products other than hi-fi systems (products like cell-phones & hearing aids) progress has been rapid.
b] Class "D" is about power in a small space with low heat. Not useful in voltage stages. Wireless headphones use Class "D".
c] Class "D" is ideal for receivers and integrated amplifiers.

Ideal? Really? In what way? What is it exactly that class D offers and class A/B does not offer?

Class D amplifiers are highly efficient. This was the premise from thie start and this is what class D does. In plain English, it extends battery life and saves money by not converting 60% of available energy into heat.

What class D is ideal for is industry and this is what it was developed to cater. Think factories, robotics, telecom, everything that requires efficient signal amplification to travel a distance with minimum energy consumption.

If you really want an offensively expensive integrated amplifier with an OEM class D module inside, there are manufacturers who will be more than happy to take your money.

Phil A

Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #16 on: 20 Mar 2024, 06:16 pm »
In my opinion, class D has no place in an audiophile system.



Which Class D amps have you auditioned either in your system or in a store vs. what non-Class D amps?

R. Daneel

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #17 on: 20 Mar 2024, 06:30 pm »
R.Daniel

I think you may be on to something.  Unless a "low" power (under 200 watts) amplifier is tube...or specialty like First Watt (and a few others), they seem to have a hard time being resold on USAM and other market places.

It seems crazy: the perceived volume difference between 100 and 200 watts is very small and very few of us are listening at 95+db.

Do we all really need 200, 500, 1000 watts?

No we don't!

I have often wondered what Bryston was thinking when they discontinued the 'smaller' amps. Let me tell you, from where I'm standing, these smaller amps are 'brute'! If I'm using 10W to play my music, do I really need an extra 190W?

Perhaps Bryston doesn't care about the European market because they sell few products here but in business, any missed opportunity is just that - a missed opportunity. This is how Naim can outsell them twenty-to-one in Europe. Not because Naim amps are better but because Naim listens to what the customers are saying they need.

The dealer in my country is also a Naim dealer so guess what they recommend - not Bryston. So clearly, a dealer well chosen.

Also, while it may be true that manufacturing bigger amplifiers doesnt't cost all that much more than manufacturing smaller ones like James says, it is also true that bigger amplifiers still cost more and if you don't need a bigger one, why would you spend more?

Sometimes just being present brings long-term benefits. You don't need a degree in economy to realise that - market is full of examples.

Incomprehensively wrong strategy on the Bryston end.

R. Daneel

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Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #18 on: 20 Mar 2024, 07:01 pm »
Which Class D amps have you auditioned either in your system or in a store vs. what non-Class D amps?

Several NAD ones, including the fancy ones with large screens on the front, PS Audio ones and even a T+A one. None of these are particularly cheap.

But if there’s a takeaway to be had from my post, then it is that I do not assess gear based solely on how it sounds but also on how it works. For example, if it’s a CD player, how fast does it read the disc, how smooth and quiet the disc mech is, how fast does it react to user input, what are the controls like etc. I try to find as much info on the technology, what’s involved and why it should be ‘better’ . If it’s an amplifier, how much current delivery it can handle (does the Wattage double as the impedance halves and at which point the PSU reaches its max current delivery), how big the transformer and reservoir caps are, which components are used in critical places etc.

The equipment can sound good and can even look good but ultimately, if it doesn’t ‘feel’ good, then I know it is not for me.

The idea of having someone else’s amplifier ‘module’ inside your amplifier with pretentions of high-end is about as attractive to me as shoving a CD-ROM drive in a fancy case and calling it a high-end CD player. There's a word for it and it isn't pretty.

Phil A

Re: discontinued amplifier B100 is missing
« Reply #19 on: 20 Mar 2024, 09:07 pm »


The idea of having someone else’s amplifier ‘module’ inside your amplifier with pretentions of high-end is about as attractive to me as shoving a CD-ROM drive in a fancy case and calling it a high-end CD player. There's a word for it and it isn't pretty.

There's more than the module to consider.  For example, how many DACs and receivers use the same DAC chips.  There's lots more than just the chip used.  I've people try to equate a raspberry pi to Bryston's old BDP pi (and calling it overpriced - which I would not agree with).  I've owned a few Class D amps and also Class A/AB and I have speakers which are not an easy load.  There's pictures in my gallery (with details).  The Class D amps easily bettered (and that's not just my opinion - probably over a dozen people all into high end audio heard as well) vs. what I used previously in my system. 

I strongly disliked Class D with what I heard 8-9 years back at a couple of audio shows (it sounded decent until pushed hard).  I bought a class D amp about 4 years back for a secondary system and was super shocked how much better it sounded vs. a well regarded (name brand) A/AB amp in that secondary system and was even more shocked when it blew away what I had in the main system.  What will be a game changer for class D is when they commonly start having real input stages vs. just a cheap op amp (and what I have now still sounds better than $10k ish Class A/AB amps I've had in my system for years) as the first thing the signal passes through.

The arguments remind me of Swiss watches.  In 1967, the Swiss made the world's first quartz watch.  Of course it couldn't be any good being so much less expensive.  I think in 8-10 more years there will be a portion of companies using old technology which will either have to change the way they do business or they may not be around.  It's so hard today to even find real dealers.  I have one audio dealer 15 minutes away (and the rest of them are about 2 hours away or longer) and I have more equipment than he does (with my secondary systems), although whay he tends to carry are ultra expensive things (e.g. $80k+ speakers).