Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....

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zeeman

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #20 on: 20 Feb 2024, 09:53 pm »
Just wanted to chime in on this hot topic as it's been a while since an years-earlier thread has been commented on. Yes Manic Moose is still the only real option for BDP control (overpriced Roon notwithstanding), but you know what.. it's a SOUND that ultimately matters and I've directly compared it with Roon using my Oppo 205 (Roon direct to Oppo and BDP3 connected USB Bus2 to same device--with high-res Qobuz as the source)...and MM interface simply blows the doors off the Roon SQ.  And my system which consists of a state-of-the-art Audio Research preamp and Cary amp will reveal every little nuance.  Sure its not as pretty but it bests it in the category that's most important.. and now that Roon is owned by one of the more questionable business-practiced companies around (yeah i said it), that's even more reason to avoid it.   I mean I personally was luckily enough to literally almost be given the BDP3 device by a friend that was getting completely out of the hobby, so yeah I'm going to give it a nice long leash to see if I can make it work.   I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the hardware design and bulletproof build of the unit itself--it just oozes quality.

As I'm sure Chris and James at Bryson would agree, the streaming era has created a whole new world of issues because the control app is so important to the overall satisfaction. A Hi-Fi company, especially a "pro-originated" company like Bryson just is not used to dealing with the software side of things... and not only is outsourcing programming super expensive, it also takes control out of their hands and let's just say many programmers are not exactly the most diligent people in the world.. I for one fully understand why it's taking so long to get a replacement because of their exacting standards...so sure MM can be clunky & sometimes doesn't play nice even if you just try to skip tracks forward (and I still haven't figured out how to scan *through* a track!)...but the sound is ultimately what matters and Manic Moose sounds has that in spades.

One more definite thing to note.  I contacted Chris with an internet radio station that I thought everyone would really like to have that sounds fantastic in FLAC.    Most services only offer it in MP3 format which pales in comparison to the better bit rate version. It was not available on the typical B radio, but In a matter of days Chris researched it's URL and it was added--you should be able to check it out for yourself under the favorites section in the media player (pureclassix).   Truly a fantastic all-encompassing playlist from this Dutch webstation.  I don't think there's many companies that would add something like that so fast if it wasn't already embedded in their system...

So thanks Chris and James for making the most of what you've got now in Manic Moose.   Sure after a decade
its about due for an overhaul to keep competitive... but don't settle until you get the all-important sound quality aspect perfect.  I along with everyone else I'm looking forward to what future software endeavors may bring :)

This post seems to lack a little bit of logic.  From your description above, your problem isn't with the sound quality of Roon (bit perfect, and recommended as the best user interface by ALL high end audio brands) per se, but the sound quality of an Oppo unit being controlled by Roon running into your BDP 3.  A BDA 3.14 (BDA-3 w/streamer) will sound better direct connected to your home network than a BDA-3 being fed by an Oppo.  My experience is that Roon offers the best user experience with no loss to audio quality.

scottm_dj

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #21 on: 21 Feb 2024, 01:25 am »
You're a little off. I compared ROON running directly to my Oppo because that amazing device is a ROON endpoint on its own...to Manic Moose connected to a BDP3 USB/Coax-connected to the same Oppo.    At least in my system, the latter was a clear winner.  But I dumped ROON after the trial because it's way too expensive for what it offers for my use (and I got tired of it sucking up my computer memory), but I realize the best test would have been using ROON to connect to the BDP3 then to the Oppo--the same as MM/MPD.  But I'm not the only one who thinks so either (using standard setup Core).

First started out with a Roon Core running on an iMAC and using a Bryston BDP as endpoint then into my DAC. Bryston Manic Moose uses MPD and it sounded better than Roon when I took Roon out of the system.

zeeman

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #22 on: 21 Feb 2024, 02:28 am »
You're a little off. I compared ROON running directly to my Oppo because that amazing device is a ROON endpoint on its own...to Manic Moose connected to a BDP3 USB/Coax-connected to the same Oppo.    At least in my system, the latter was a clear winner.  But I dumped ROON after the trial because it's way too expensive for what it offers for my use (and I got tired of it sucking up my computer memory), but I realize the best test would have been using ROON to connect to the BDP3 then to the Oppo--the same as MM/MPD.  But I'm not the only one who thinks so either (using standard setup Core).

First started out with a Roon Core running on an iMAC and using a Bryston BDP as endpoint then into my DAC. Bryston Manic Moose uses MPD and it sounded better than Roon when I took Roon out of the system.

Yeah that's not an optimal setup at all.  You're needlessly adding steps and components.  Oppo was overrated midfi (I once heard a $600 Rotel CD player decisively outperform a $1200 Oppo universal unit) and doesn't have a sensible place in a Bryston system, or the type of system you claim to have, IMO.  I have to disagree with your opinion of Roon sound quality.  I've directly compared it on several high end systems to BlueSound and Manic Moose, and have detected no sonic difference.  The added bonus of Roon's richly curated content, industry wide adoption and industry leading user interface (fully updatable forever) makes it a no brainer on high quality systems.  If it was a poor sounding option do you really think Bryston, McIntosh, Krell, Mark Levinson, Audio Research, etc would be recommending it as the best option for their gear?  Your opinion on the price is laughable, given the high price of the gear you claim to own.  That's the audiophile equivalent of complaining about the price of good tires or an oil change for your Ferrari - It doesn't happen with real customers, in my experience.

zeeman

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #23 on: 21 Feb 2024, 02:34 am »
You're a little off. I compared ROON running directly to my Oppo because that amazing device is a ROON endpoint on its own...to Manic Moose connected to a BDP3 USB/Coax-connected to the same Oppo.    At least in my system, the latter was a clear winner.  But I dumped ROON after the trial because it's way too expensive for what it offers for my use (and I got tired of it sucking up my computer memory), but I realize the best test would have been using ROON to connect to the BDP3 then to the Oppo--the same as MM/MPD.  But I'm not the only one who thinks so either (using standard setup Core).

First started out with a Roon Core running on an iMAC and using a Bryston BDP as endpoint then into my DAC. Bryston Manic Moose uses MPD and it sounded better than Roon when I took Roon out of the system.

I should also add, that in either case you're not actually listening to Roon, but Roon and MM through different inputs (streaming module vs digital coax inside the Oppo) on a mass market device.  Try something far superior, like a Bryston BDA 3.14 operating with Roon, and your experience will be much better.

HIFI Obsessed

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #24 on: 22 Feb 2024, 12:21 am »
I would like to see the end user able to save there own local radio stations on MM in there new OS update.

You currently can add if it's in a "playlist" format, but this was not. In case you're interested & want to listen to it maybe on a computer desktop or something away from your system...here's the web URL. It's just fascinating watch the tracklist go from Beatles to Boston to maybe some old 80s Icehouse and back to the '60s again--all with well above-average sound   To the person who listened it to it after skiing... Glad you enjoyed it :-).  Yes it does have August the end but I believe it's FLAC (16bit/900Kb) quality as I tested it somewhere.
https://mscp4.live-streams.nl:8142/lounge.ogg


I was able to implement that link to Roon.
Thank you
Anthony


sfraser

Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #25 on: 22 Feb 2024, 06:50 pm »
You're a little off. I compared ROON running directly to my Oppo because that amazing device is a ROON endpoint on its own...to Manic Moose connected to a BDP3 USB/Coax-connected to the same Oppo.    At least in my system, the latter was a clear winner.  But I dumped ROON after the trial because it's way too expensive for what it offers for my use (and I got tired of it sucking up my computer memory), but I realize the best test would have been using ROON to connect to the BDP3 then to the Oppo--the same as MM/MPD.  But I'm not the only one who thinks so either (using standard setup Core).

First started out with a Roon Core running on an iMAC and using a Bryston BDP as endpoint then into my DAC. Bryston Manic Moose uses MPD and it sounded better than Roon when I took Roon out of the system.

If you like the flexibility but not the price of Roon, you may want to take a look at Logitech Media Server (LMS ). It is free, will support huge libraries ( I currently have close to 120K tracks) and is not picky about H/W resources.  I believe the BDP3 still supports a LMS (Squeezebox, Squeezelite etc) client.  Beside having a local library ,  It has a wide variety of plugins , such as Radio Paradise , QOBUZ, and will allow you to sync up players throughout your house during parties etc. If interested,  I would install it  on a laptop to see if you like it. If you are happy with it, you can purchase a Raspberry PI and use that as a low power host for the LMS .  I Highly suggest the "material skin" interface, and you can use your smart phone, tab, or laptop etc as the remote control.

Cheers,

Scott

scottm_dj

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #26 on: 22 Feb 2024, 07:32 pm »
Yep I'm very aware of it. One of the streamers I'm considering uses a Raspberry Pi interface and that's one of the options they can add (PiCore).  But I'm starting to discover some of the reasons why the BDP3 is so pricey:  for one I think I can count on one finger the number strreamers  that actually have a true INTEL CPU chip in them rather than a low powered Android (AM) cheapie--and couple that with 8GB of RAM?   And as far as MM is concerned, the same "ramshackle" look of it means that it's highly customizable(including your LMS observation) and almost has a DIY feel.   You won't get nearly as much flexibility with some of those other "more streamlined" apps.   MM is quickly growing on me :-)

Speaking of DIY,  I'm checking out a US manufacturer that uses Raspberry Pi and I may get his DAC version that uses the state of the art brand new AKM R2R chip.   As great as my Oppo 205 is, the deck is a little bit long in the tooth these days.  I was thinking about his really skick streamer-DAC but I think I'm going to keep the Bryston because you're not going to get much better standalone streamer than this one.

And let's face it, selling this in the US is not easy because just like the it's musically clueless to the rest of the world it's also Hi-Fi clueless to some of the best-out-of-area devices.   I would definitely have to go to Canuck Audio Mart if I was to list it.

scottm_dj

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #27 on: 22 Feb 2024, 07:37 pm »
I should also add, that in either case you're not actually listening to Roon, but Roon and MM through different inputs (streaming module vs digital coax inside the Oppo) on a mass market device.  Try something far superior, like a Bryston BDA 3.14 operating with Roon, and your experience will be much better.

I don't think I'd call the Oppo 205 a mass market device. Are you aware that used prices on this go for more than the BDA or the BDP (sometimes combined!)?  There's a reason for this.: it excels in pretty much everything it does, complete with a Sabre Pro DAC chip they used 7 years ago that still being used in current devices...and HDMI 2.0 ports that the BDA doesn't even have.   But it does have a little bit of digital glare I've noticed from the implementation so I'm trying to find just a little standalone DAC to clean that up.

scottm_dj

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #28 on: 22 Feb 2024, 08:03 pm »
Your opinion on the Roon price is laughable, given the high price of the gear you claim to own.

No just sensible. I would never use the multiple system or zone capability of ROON, and I don't touch any DSP of any kind because it destroys the pure sound (I'm sure I'll be flamed for that but there's a reason no higher-end equipment including mine has any tone controls).  And I don't claim to I do own some of the best equipment like this awesome preamp as you can see by the picture (amp now a Cary Cinema 5)




sfraser

Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #29 on: 22 Feb 2024, 09:48 pm »
Yep I'm very aware of it. One of the streamers I'm considering uses a Raspberry Pi interface and that's one of the options they can add (PiCore).  But I'm starting to discover some of the reasons why the BDP3 is so pricey:  for one I think I can count on one finger the number strreamers  that actually have a true INTEL CPU chip in them rather than a low powered Android (AM) cheapie--and couple that with 8GB of RAM?   And as far as MM is concerned, the same "ramshackle" look of it means that it's highly customizable(including your LMS observation) and almost has a DIY feel.   You won't get nearly as much flexibility with some of those other "more streamlined" apps.   MM is quickly growing on me :-)

Speaking of DIY,  I'm checking out a US manufacturer that uses Raspberry Pi and I may get his DAC version that uses the state of the art brand new AKM R2R chip.   As great as my Oppo 205 is, the deck is a little bit long in the tooth these days.  I was thinking about his really skick streamer-DAC but I think I'm going to keep the Bryston because you're not going to get much better standalone streamer than this one.

And let's face it, selling this in the US is not easy because just like the it's musically clueless to the rest of the world it's also Hi-Fi clueless to some of the best-out-of-area devices.   I would definitely have to go to Canuck Audio Mart if I was to list it.

I like the idea of separating the Server component from the client  or streamer component. A decent home network , LMS and SqueezeLite allow for that. Personally  I have 8 clients, some are Squeeze Radios, (unsuite and home Gym), the rest are PI's running Squeezelite  with HiFi Berry HAT's . Some of the Pi HAT's have a digital output  feeding  DAC's (Benchmark DAC1 ,  BDA3 and a AVM60 Pre Pro). Some of the HAT's are actual DAC's  connected directly into amplifiers for my kitchen and screened in porch.  With the last two, I control the gain with the LMS/Squeezelite volume control, not the best way to do it, but the application is background music.

Highendfool

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #30 on: 28 Feb 2024, 01:53 am »
Very confusing:

BDP-3.  Awesome sounding
Manic Moose.   Awesome sounding.

MPD early version is the industry standard and the best IMHO.    Everything else is trying to improve it.   

Unfortunately,  the MPD folks are forcing the industry to pay/share in newer versions.

Manic Moose is great but improvement will be hard to come by.


I’m afraid many posters here don’t really understand what Manic Moose does and why it can’t be responsible for sound quality!
“Music Player Daemon is a free and open source music player server. It plays audio files, organizes playlists and maintains a music database. In order to interact with it, a client program is needed. The MPD distribution includes mpc, a simple command line client. MPD is used in proprietary audio hardware. Wikipedia”

Manic Moose is the client program mentioned in the above description of what MPD is.
And there is a LOT to be improved with it! That’s why  Bryston has been working on a replacement for a long time now.

I wish Chris or James would chime in on this issue .
« Last Edit: 28 Feb 2024, 05:04 pm by Highendfool »

James Tanner

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #31 on: 28 Feb 2024, 06:13 pm »
Hi

I have always felt that you can not tell folks that what they say they hear is not valid. 
The only thing we can do is ask what could be going on that would cause the sound difference perceived by the individual?

james

Highendfool

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #32 on: 28 Feb 2024, 08:16 pm »
Hi

I have always felt that you can not tell folks that what they say they hear is not valid. 
The only thing we can do is ask what could be going on that would cause the sound difference perceived by the individual?

james

I’m inclined to agree James.  Thank you.

scottm_dj

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #33 on: 28 Feb 2024, 08:22 pm »
In my case, citing ouright curiosity, I may invoke Roon for another month just to do some true testing. Meaning Roon to the BDP3 to the Oppo 205 vs Manic Moose to the BDP to the 205...then I would know for sure.
« Last Edit: 29 Feb 2024, 03:08 pm by scottm_dj »

vonnie123

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #34 on: 29 Feb 2024, 02:28 am »
@James Tanner

Is there an update on the release of the Manic Moose replacement?  Seems like it’s been in process a very long time.

James Tanner

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #35 on: 29 Feb 2024, 12:23 pm »
Sorry vonnie no news at this point.

james

Blik9

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #36 on: 2 Mar 2024, 09:49 pm »
I’ve tried to play Peter Gabriels «That’ll do» repeatedly. It just won’t play and I get this stupid message every time.


gil99

Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #37 on: 3 Mar 2024, 03:04 am »
I have the exact same problem with my bop-1 trying to play tidal, can't play anything from tidal,  ut have no problem with Quobuz. Anything I choose to play with tidal gave me the same weird message and nothing is playing. Anyway to solve this problem. Had no problem playing tidal before.

Highendfool

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #38 on: 10 Mar 2024, 05:13 pm »
Excellent post. You are correct; its the sound that matters and Manic Moose has it in spades. 8) Personally, I hope Manic Moose does not change because I don't want to undergo another learning curve. I just want to select and play, and that's what the Moose does.  8)

Manic Moose doesn’t affect sound quality.

jobiwon

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Re: Manic Moose revisted....again. New BDP3 user's take....
« Reply #39 on: 13 Mar 2024, 10:55 pm »
Manic Moose doesn’t affect sound quality.

MPD within MM does.