AudioCircle

Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Kristian105 on 5 Feb 2018, 02:54 am

Title: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 5 Feb 2018, 02:54 am
This is my first post.

I got these insignias for the sole purpose of doing the upgrade... years ago.  I finally got to them and decided to build new cabinets.  This project is my practice run to get back into it before I build things that will cost too much to replace.

I realized today that I made the speaker 3/4 of an inch wider than the original because of the material thickness, will this affect the crossover?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175679)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175680)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175681)
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Danny Richie on 5 Feb 2018, 03:41 pm
Added surface reflections will effect the response. A large round over will help.
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: S Clark on 5 Feb 2018, 05:47 pm
Your internal bracing will take up some of that excess.  Add corner blocks, maybe even laminate some 1/2" mdf to the open areas of the sides.  All these will help get your internal volume closer to spec, and make the cabinet better at the same time.  Add some No Rez or carpet padding also.  If you can get within 5%, you're close enough. 
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 5 Feb 2018, 07:43 pm
Your internal bracing will take up some of that excess.  Add corner blocks, maybe even laminate some 1/2" mdf to the open areas of the sides.  All these will help get your internal volume closer to spec, and make the cabinet better at the same time.  Add some No Rez or carpet padding also.  If you can get within 5%, you're close enough.

Yeah, I figure it was over about .1 cubic feet.  I was planning on fitting the crossover before I load it up with additional mdf.

Is it the internal baffle with or external that affects the crossover? Just wondering.  I plan on using the original baffl cover and grill and cutting a large round over.
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Danny Richie on 5 Feb 2018, 09:50 pm
It is the additional baffle size on the outside that effects the response.
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Hank on 8 Feb 2018, 07:00 pm
[quoteIt is the additional baffle size on the outside that effects the response][/quote]
That's what Danny was referring to "...added surface reflections..."  I have used a 3/4" radius round over bit on my table-mounted router for most cabinets I've built over the years.  I think you'd need that large of a round over on your cabs (vertical baffle edges).
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Tyson on 8 Feb 2018, 07:17 pm
Plus roundovers are always a good thing to do for the purposes of minimizing edge defraction.
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 9 Feb 2018, 11:15 am
I was planning on doing a round over along the entire front and then using the front cover off of  the original speaker along with original grill.  Are there any sonic drawbacks to this? 
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 10 Feb 2018, 09:46 pm
Got some crossover work done
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175892)
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 17 Feb 2018, 03:21 am
I changed the center brace and glued in a few pieces of mdf to bring the volume down to .38 cubic feet.  Hopefully I’ll Have them ready for finishing by the end of the weekend.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176248)
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: charmerci on 17 Feb 2018, 09:42 am
That seems like a ton of work  for such inexpensive speakers. Did you ever think of using better drivers? They can be inexpensive.
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 18 Feb 2018, 02:36 am
its fun.  Practice.  I’m curious about the outcome.  I’ll be building a few pairs of Danny’s other speakers when the weather warms up, I have a set of N3tls and a set of skinny 6s in boxes waiting to go. 
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: charmerci on 18 Feb 2018, 10:41 am
Ha, ha. OK. Sounds great.... or shall I say, will sound great!
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 18 Feb 2018, 11:09 am
I hope so.  I always like to try to build out cheap stuff just for fun.  I’m a car guy, from restoration to modification to painting and welding.  I’ve done  rolls Royce’s and Austin healeys, but I always loved me an 80’s Chevy cavalier!
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: charmerci on 18 Feb 2018, 12:17 pm
What is it with GM? They finally made the Cavalier look so slick - then they discontinued it. They did the same with the Pontiac Fiero - the '88 looked awesome.  :duh:
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 18 Feb 2018, 02:02 pm
I had a fiero!  Burgundy exterior and tan interior.  I wish I still had it knowing what I know now, it would be amazing.
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 19 Feb 2018, 10:51 pm
Some progress has been made.  I used some leftover mass loading material I had from a previous automotive install and some regular fiberglass insulation. Tomorrow I’ll be bringing them to the paint shop.  I’m regretting using screws, especially since I ended up buying like 20 clamps anyway.  Oh well.  Nothing money won’t fix!


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176424)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176425)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176426)
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: S Clark on 19 Feb 2018, 11:16 pm
I'd pull the insulation blocking air flow to the port.
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 19 Feb 2018, 11:55 pm
I'd pull the insulation blocking air flow to the port.
It’s clear.  Just a bad picture.  I made that mistake with my av1s.  Packed them full of polyfil like a sealed subwoofer and they sounded awful.  I was amazed at the difference when I pulled all the polyfil out of them and did it right with fiberglass.
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: S Clark on 20 Feb 2018, 12:30 am
They're looking good.  If the baffle is a bit too wide, there may be a slight bump in the lower mid bass at the baffle step point, but the tightening of everything else should be an overall positive result.  Eager to hear what your impressions are. 
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 20 Feb 2018, 01:16 am
  If the baffle is a bit too wide, there may be a slight bump in the lower mid bass at the baffle step point, but the tightening of everything else should be an overall positive result.   

It starts to round over at about half an inch too wide.  How much damage can half an inch do?
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 20 Feb 2018, 10:22 pm
Bondo, primer, primer again

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176463)
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: S Clark on 20 Feb 2018, 10:28 pm
It starts to round over at about half an inch too wide.  How much damage can half an inch do?
Danny can tell you exactly, but I imagine that if the whole front baffle is only 1/2" wide, I doubt if you'll hear a bump.  It might measure a couple of db. 
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 21 Feb 2018, 11:41 pm
Orange you glad they’re orange?

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176504)
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: S Clark on 22 Feb 2018, 03:38 am
These are going to be absolutely most kick ass low end speaker ever.  Eager to hear your listening impressions.
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Danny Richie on 22 Feb 2018, 04:18 pm
Wow, that looks nice!
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: gregfisk on 23 Feb 2018, 12:21 am
That's a great color :thumb:
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 23 Feb 2018, 01:34 am
Thank you :) 20 years painting. It’s a mistubishi color.  I’ll post a review this weekend.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176539)
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Captainhemo on 23 Feb 2018, 02:26 am
Awsome dude   8)

Picked up a pair of the Insignia  outdoor/waterproof/resistent speakers  a fw years ago for my buddy to use on his patio.   Even  inthe plastic/junk stock enclosures and stock networks, they sounded remarkably good.   Loking forward to hearing   what you think  of these now

jay
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: nickd on 24 Feb 2018, 06:19 pm
I’m a fan of fiberglass too. Just sounds better IMOP. Took me a while to figure that out though and I hate working with the stuff. Learning to trust my ears more as I get older.

That’s how I discovered G&R Research. Saw a cool pic on line & went to Rocky Mountain and listened.
I’ve had a lot of fun building Danny’s designs since then. He designs old school tone with real bass at working man prices. Not too many guys doing that in the hi-fi world anymore.

I sometimes wonder if he would design the same if he lived elsewhere? Texas has a different environment than where I live. I’m thinking it influenced his taste away from “East coast sound” and leaned it toward a “live sound preference”.

Now back to the thread. Please let us know What you think of the sound of a concentric driver. I have not found one that imaged to my liking yet. The cone as a deep wave guide seems to limit dispersion and give “head in a vice” imaging. If you move the highs change quite a bit.

One exception to that was the early 80’s “Time window” and Time frame” models. totally wanted a pair of those. Found out 30 years later it was a coaxial driver. Who would have thought?
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: mlundy57 on 24 Feb 2018, 06:49 pm
Those look great. Wish I had your painting skills  :thumb:

Mike
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 4 Mar 2018, 10:03 pm
So I've been listening to these speakers for the last week and doing some AB comparisons.  I must say that they really exceed my expectations in every way!  I was planning on sticking these out in the garage while I build my N3TLs, but i think they'll be staying in my main system for the time being. 

Before I began this project I brought the unmodified insignias inside and plugged them in for a night.  My girls reaction was a curled lip and a question.. "why does it sound.. so... bleehhh".  Her reaction after the rebuild was hilarious.  She literally stopped in her tracks (which doesn't happen.. ever) and just stood there; mouth agape.. she turned to me and smiled wide.  "Wow, that's incredible! I can't believe how good they sound.. they sound better than the other ones!"  And its true.. they do. 

They obviously aren't the best speakers i've ever head, but they are enjoyable and leave little to be desired.  The on and off axis response is similar, pacing around while listening is no problem.  They do sound better a little further away though, near field is a little brash.  Overall they are a little on the warm side tonally (but not too much).  Treble is realistic and at times impressive; not world class, but enjoyable.  Bass is tight.. real tight, the weight of the cabinet is noticeable.   I made the cabinet a little too wide for the crossover, but there are no noticeable issues, bass is very clean, tight, and dynamic down to about 50hz.  Midrange is clean and realistic as well.  Imaging is pretty damn good.  Movies and Music both sound awesome.

I'm really happy with these.  I'm honestly surprised at how good they sound. They really hold their own.
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: nickd on 4 Mar 2018, 10:45 pm
Thanks for the listening impressions.  :thumb:
Glad they sound as good as they look. That is a really stunning pair of cabinets.
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Mar 2018, 07:06 am
Cool man,  glad  it all worked out so well  and tha t they both sound and look great .   Never hurts  when you  build them yourself, adds that little extra  something   8)
Good luck with your  N3 Tl build,  you're going to love them,  fantasic   speakers  .

jay
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 22 May 2018, 12:27 am
Almost finishing building these stands for the insignias.  I have a feeling I need to double up the base or it will warp.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180335)
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 3 Jun 2018, 10:01 pm
I’m trying joint compound on the soft edges of the stands.  See how it holds up.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180863)
Title: Re: Insignia Upgrade with custom cabinets
Post by: Kristian105 on 13 Jun 2018, 09:43 pm
Done as it’s gonna get

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=181338)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=181339)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=181340)