AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Single Driver, Wide-Bandwidth Speakers => Topic started by: drphoto on 2 Jan 2011, 03:16 pm
-
Seem good on paper. Wide range drivers w/ a ribbon tweeter using only a cap. High efficiency and fairly low prices and nice looking in pics. But no one has mentioned them.
-
They've been mentioned recently - sound promising!
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=89781.new#new
-
Which ones? http://www.decware.com/newsite/speakers.html
I heard an ancient verion of the radial speaker several years ago. It produced an image "cloud" that extended above the speakers. Keep in mind that most Decware amps thrive on low impedance loads, so their speakers tend to be unusual offerings.
BTW scroll down and check out the DIY Imperial horn. :thumb:
-
...their speakers tend to be unusual offerings.
In what respect? AFAIK the Parker Audio 95 was the only speaker ever truly designed to work optimally with the Zen, which as you say thrives on low impedance. To be fair Steve does offer that particular amp with output transformers better suited for an 8 ohm load. And again AFAIK, the only amp that thrived on unusually low impedance was the Zen SE84. Looking at the specs, most of his speakers are rated 8 ohms nominal.
-
Steve & Ziggy's speakers have a following. Like most of Decware's products, the build is first rate, handmade stuff. Steve definitely stands behind his products.
Best, Don
-
Anyone own the Decware Mini's (DM945)?
They look very interesting on paper - 94dB, 6KHz crossover with a single cap, nice binding post assembly and magnetic grilles for $895.
Steve
-
This is what my Radials look like.
Can you identify the 5.25" drivers?
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u174/deckert-ziegler/IT%20speakers/102_0341.jpg)
-
M-130,s ??
-
XBL
-
M-130,s ??
You are correct.
They also use them in the MG944 MTM TL another great sounding speaker. :thumb:
Lin
-
M-130 or M-130XBL?
-
M-130 or M-130XBL?
If you're talking about Dan Wiggins patented XBL motor tech, doesn't that tend to sacrifice enough sensitivity to take them off the list of candidates for "high sensitivity" drivers?
-
M-130 or M-130X?
If you're talking about Dan Wiggins patented XBL motor tech, doesn't that tend to sacrifice enough sensitivity to take them off the list of candidates for "high sensitivity" drivers?
89.9 vs. 87.84 according to the specs.
-
opnly.. your "radial" speakers are Decware?? I don't see the same model listed... what are yours? Very cool....
-
Mine are like the "retired" RL3s but are a newer version now called Turning Point Audio HR-1 :dunno: (I guess :scratch: - I did not know this until I read the review, I knew they were not technically a Decware speaker, they only sell the ERR radial now).
Here is some info and a mini review of their sister speaker.
http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=828
Lin
-
I don't see the same model listed... what are yours? Very cool....
They have a front midbass driver aperiodically loaded, a front ribbon, an 8" radial driver on top loaded by a passive radiator firing into the plinth on the bottom. No x-o only a cap on the tweeter. :D
Low power amps ~ high power amps ~ it does not matter. Decware's 2w amp works fine and SAS Audio Labs' 50w amps work great.
Lin
-
Seem good on paper. Wide range drivers w/ a ribbon tweeter using only a cap. High efficiency and fairly low prices and nice looking in pics. But no one has mentioned them.
Most Decware owners seem to keep to themselves or only post occasionally on the support forums over there.
Lin
-
89.9 vs. 87.84 according to the specs.
thanks Lin
and the lack of prolific posting or prosthelytizing* by Decware owners could well be that they're too busy enjoying their music :D
* feel free to correct my spelling - even Google is confused on that one
-
Sweet.. VERY cool... yes, Decware makes some nice looking, reasonably priced stuff...just have never seen this model before... I possibly would have been interested n a set! Happy Listening! :thumb:
-
Most Decware owners seem to keep to themselves or only post occasionally on the support forums over there.
Lin
Their forum is pretty quiet. Very quiet, actually.
There's a thread over at the Decware forum called "Fighting the Good Fight: Recommending Decware". The OP, who I think probably has the most experience with the widest variety of Decware equipment (I think he is their most prolific poster, anyway) writes of his frustration over the lack of interest among other audiophiles in Decware products.
I suggested that Steve Deckart consider partnering with AudioCircle. AC is much more active (no comparison at all) and I can think of worse, less productive ways in creating interest in one's product than by hosting your own Circle. On the other hand, for being such a boutique manufacturer, the web site really is quite good – better (ie. content, product descriptions and photographs, white papers) than almost all on AC I would venture.
Other than the OP's agreement about their forum. The idea was met with a yawn. Oh well.
-
Hello finsup,
I guess I don't understand why you feel this is important. :scratch:
Lin
-
Years ago (before AC or even Harmonic Discord) the Decware site was much busier. But it seems the 2 wpc amp niche has been filled and as mentioned above, many of the faithful are happily listening.
I honestly tried for years to get into Decware, but 2 wpc (even 12 wpc that Steve finally came out with) wasn't enough for the speakers I finally chose. And like most of the SET crowd, they seem to run scared of deep bass (I really don't see myself as a basshead) as it can quickly suck a small amp dry. Similarly his speakers tend to be bass shy too (at least for my taste and I run single driver speakers with no sub).
Steve now offers a whopping 25 wpc amp that is beautiful inside and out. But it costs $2500 and he advises that you should spend more for source and speakers, so this is pointing towards a five figure system which is too rich for my blood.
-
I'm now a new Decware customer... ordered the 2W SE84ZS with v-caps and I should get it next week. Ought to be a perfect match for my Bastanis speakers since they're uber efficient and have powered woofers. These new drivers look interesting too... I could definitely see myself trying them in the near future.
Gary
-
I'm now a new Decware customer... ordered the 2W SE84ZS with v-caps and I should get it next week. Ought to be a perfect match for my Bastanis speakers since they're uber efficient and have powered woofers. These new drivers look interesting too... I could definitely see myself trying them in the near future.
Gary
Congrats on your purchase. These are superior amps when partnered with appropriate gear!
Happy Listening--
Best, Don
-
Hello finsup,
I guess I don't understand why you feel this is important. :scratch:
Lin
Hi Lin,
Well, reading through that thread, one gets the sense that there is a certain amount of bewilderment about why the Decware brand isn't more widely accepted. You'll see terms like "derision, and incredulity, and frustration". Some of the members feel a little embattled -- especially with the comments following that CNET comparison of a 2-watt Decware amp and a 500 watt Bel Canto amp. Mind you, the review was pretty favorable to the Decware amp, given its limitations.
If the Decware owners want to keep to themselves, that is their decision. If I was Steve Dekart, I might wonder what additional sales might be generated by having a Circle at AC. So, I suppose it is important only in the sense that I am trying to offer a possible solution to the OPs furstation about the cold shoulder Decware products get. I think AC is the perfect place for a Decware forum. Of course, keep the web site, but the fourms would probably be more effective over here.
Lin, I see that you have a version of their RL-3s. Have you posted anywhere about your experiences with those speakers? I have been thinking about their ERRs, but seeing your speakers, I wonder what the extra coin has to offer?
-
Hi Lin,
Well, reading through that thread, one gets the sense that there is a certain amount of bewilderment about why the Decware brand isn't more widely accepted. You'll see terms like "derision, and incredulity, and frustration". Some of the members feel a little embattled -- especially with the comments following that CNET comparison of a 2-watt Decware amp and a 500 watt Bel Canto amp. Mind you, the review was pretty favorable to the Decware amp, given its limitations.
All of the posters comment on "listening" as being key (and the OP opened with this, "If I were a less tenacious and opinionated person, I might have an easier time with life."). Most of us are willing to change our system when we hear obvious improvements, but very few are willing when it comes to subtle differences that takes time to hear and time to adjust our thinking to, most just move on. A circle on a forum will not change that, on 2 different forums you have spoken of the 2w amp's "limitations".
If the Decware owners want to keep to themselves, that is their decision. If I was Steve Deckert, I might wonder what additional sales might be generated by having a Circle at AC. So, I suppose it is important only in the sense that I am trying to offer a possible solution to the OPs furstation about the cold shoulder Decware products get. I think AC is the perfect place for a Decware forum. Of course, keep the web site, but the fourms would probably be more effective over here.
I'm not sure "more" exposure will change anything for Decware (there are a few manufacturers forums here that are no more active than his), it is obvious from the C-Net replies that most of them have never heard a tube amp and wouldn't even consider one. The 2nd and 3rd posts on AN were negative.
I also think Steve is (mostly) as busy as he wants to be.
Lin, I see that you have a version of their RL-3s. Have you posted anywhere about your experiences with those speakers? I have been thinking about their ERRs, but seeing your speakers, I wonder what the extra coin has to offer?
No I have not, currently I'm driving them with one of Decware's 2w amps and I have not posted any comments about it either.
If you look at my picture to the left you will see my SAS Audio Labs EL156 UL mono amps which I think are right up there with the best amps I have ever heard, but again no comments (other than this one).
I'm not much of a grandiose writer and I tend to rewrite/edit so much that the time involved to make a few paragraphs is overwhelming.
Plus, I have read so many people waxing poetic about pieces of gear that I wouldn't recommend to an enemy, so it boils down to hearing for oneself anyhow.
We read the same C-Net review, you thought it was "pretty favorable" I disagree, just different opinions.
Steve G said, "The REF500S was clearly more accurate-sounding than the Zen.......The Zen is more musical" :scratch:
Is he saying music doesn't sound accurate? Or gear that makes music sound more musical is flawed somehow?
His "review" was of no value at all to me and IMO possibly misleading to others, but I have no horse in this race (I make no money from the sales of either amp and I make no money from posting my opinions on forums).
Lin
-
Lin, I see that you have a version of their RL-3s. Have you posted anywhere about your experiences with those speakers? I have been thinking about their ERRs, but seeing your speakers, I wonder what the extra coin has to offer?
I had Turning Point Audio HR-1s (which I believe are based on the now discontinued RL3s~same builder).
They are IMO a very good speaker with many +s and few -s, if one enjoys what a radial and a no crossover design brings to the experience you can't go wrong with either model. I was able to buy a demo/b-stock pair for less $ than the ERRs so I have not taken the time to compare to give meaningful comment on the differences.
FWIW Lon thinks they (HR-1s) are the best speakers he has ever heard (paired with Decware amps of course :lol: ).
Lin
-
I own DECWARE MG944 speakers and listen to them proudly. They are ideal for me.
I do not think that Steve Deckert wants to become a huge volume producer if he can't have some time left to enjoy what he is doing; which is why he does this in the first place. Also, he needs time for research and development of new products for his flock. Add to that the need to study the performance of products already released to the marketplace, so they can be tweaked and updated. Therefore, I do not envision them tooting their horn so loud as to disrupt their business model, which seems to be a relatively peaceful one. That is probably where the Zen name and idea came from.
I think they will always have enough new customers and existing customers upgrading to keep them in business for a long time.
I disagree that the demand for single ended amps has peaked. There is no evidence of that.
-
Well, it has been almost six years since someone put any word on this topic. I wondered if there are any HR-1 speaker owners on the forum.
I found a bit of information on their own forum, but would like to hear both sides, owners and those who listened to these and didn't like them.
-
I was an active poster on the Decware forum about 15 years ago. From what I understand Steve has no formal electronics education (as evidenced by his unusual designs). And he was caught early on exaggerating specifications so all told his gear has been shunned by the mainstream. Since then he's been very hesitant to allow professional reviews. He is a tinkerer, designing by trial and error, and issues fairly frequent equipment updates. From my experience he gear sounds very good but does underestimate the needed speaker efficiency for his amps and his speakers are very bass light. I tried one of his amps, that had just come from repairs (?) but it had a nasty distortion. That aside it did have great tube palpability but very flabby bass (pretty much the opposite of what he promotes).
-
My buddy Rex bought the DIY plans for the DNA Horns and he is very happy. Plans-$19.95
Parts-$300
Steve uses the Acoustat Monitor Iv's as a reference. Those are still one of the best speakers ever built.
-
Heard his Acoustats (in his small/highly designed room) years ago and very sorry to say couldn't get past the vinyl surface noise to give it a listen. (Just can't tolerate it, like finger nails on caulk board, which is part of why I switched to CD's early on and haven't looked back).
-
From my experience he gear sounds very good but does underestimate the needed speaker efficiency for his amps and his speakers are very bass light.
Agreed. My friend owned a Decware Tori amp a few years ago and it was underpowered, even for the high efficiency speakers he bought for them. I brought my 300 wpc SS amp to his house to compare, and it was no contest, even at low volume.
-
Heard his Acoustats (in his small/highly designed room) years ago and very sorry to say couldn't get past the vinyl surface noise to give it a listen. (Just can't tolerate it, like finger nails on caulk board, which is part of why I switched to CD's early on and haven't looked back).
The cons of the Acoustats is they reveal any flaws in your system. They are still SOTA today.
-
Decware remain sticky to small output tubes, an additional power from 6C33 or GM70 tubes would enlarge the useful range from his amps.
Most his amps are stereo, no mono, only the top price amp are mono.
-
Thanks for the replies, but I was wondering about the speakers, specifically HR-1, not so much about the amps.
I really like the idea behind this hybrid model, but it is really hard to find any info outside Decware's forum.
-
Thanks for the replies, but I was wondering about the speakers, specifically HR-1, not so much about the amps.
I really like the idea behind this hybrid model, but it is really hard to find any info outside Decware's forum.
My favor Decware speaker is the late MG944, others are exotic and need listen before purchase imo. Hard to find used.
-
Could this be driving the sudden interest out of left field? Hmmmmm........ :scratch:
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-decware-hr-1-prototypes-2016-10-24-speakers-61108-rockford-il
-
I was an active poster on the Decware forum about 15 years ago. From what I understand Steve has no formal electronics education (as evidenced by his unusual designs). And he was caught early on exaggerating specifications so all told his gear has been shunned by the mainstream. Since then he's been very hesitant to allow professional reviews. He is a tinkerer, designing by trial and error, and issues fairly frequent equipment updates. From my experience he gear sounds very good but does underestimate the needed speaker efficiency for his amps and his speakers are very bass light. I tried one of his amps, that had just come from repairs (?) but it had a nasty distortion. That aside it did have great tube palpability but very flabby bass (pretty much the opposite of what he promotes).
This is not any demerit on the the contrary, Steve is one of the greats of tube audio.
Bob Carver also is not an electronic or electrical engineer, he is a physicist and has the maximum honor to have humiliated the cynics of that famous Hai-Endi magazine.
His Carver Amazing is the best speaker I have listen, put to shame any Maggie, ML and Eminent.
-
Could this be driving the sudden interest out of left field? Hmmmmm........ :scratch:
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-decware-hr-1-prototypes-2016-10-24-speakers-61108-rockford-il
It is a local pickup only and I live in Dallas, TX. A good found, though.
-
Thanks for the replies, but I was wondering about the speakers, specifically HR-1, not so much about the amps.
I really like the idea behind this hybrid model, but it is really hard to find any info outside Decware's forum.
Go over to "The Starting Block" forum. Under the post "how not to build a system", Blueone302 sent a pair of Spatial M3's back preferring the HR-1 by a wide margin.
-
Go over to "The Starting Block" forum. Under the post "how not to build a system", Blueone302 sent a pair of Spatial M3's back preferring the HR-1 by a wide margin.
:D M3s have been on my list for some time now, and exactly this post was the trigger for reviving the thread about Decware, specifically HR-1.