Audibility of Movement in High Performance Cables

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 3716 times.

Albert Von Schweikert

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 264
    • Von Schweikert Audio
Audibility of Movement in High Performance Cables
« on: 8 Feb 2015, 06:10 am »
Hello Fellow Audiophiles,

At this time we have a large family of users of the Master-Built Audio Cables, designed and manufactured by a division of Delphi Aerospace.  With the Beta testing phase of the new ULTRA design coming to a highly successful conclusion, we have discussed several different topics with a large number of customers. 

A very important part of the upcoming M-B website will be the general discussion of the their technology and some suggestions on how to use these cables in the most effective manner.  Even though we have been working with Nick and his team for over six years, it has taken us this length of time to fully understand the implications of these cables and how they interact with the electronics and speakers in the system.  This has not been a simple or quickly done task, as I wanted to be very certain that these cables are as good as M-B has stated before I risked my reputation as a serious audiophile by recommending them to our valued customers.

In the interest of getting feedback from our customers and potential customers, I would like to submit the following items for discussion on this Forum.

   1,  Break-in of cables.  Cause and effect?
   2. Cable movement.  Real or imaginary sonic differences?

(Note that I have not made a point of begging the question whether cables have sonic differences and are indeed "components" in their own right, as I think that everyone on this Forum knows this to be true).

BREAK-IN
According to several top scientists in the field of quantum mechanics, electrons travel through conductors both as particles and waves.  This has vast implications for the accurate transmission of a complex musical waveform through a conductor.  For a quick reference, see this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics   (Yeah, I know, Wiki isn't exactly the best reference material available, but this article seems to have very few faults).

SIMPLE DESCRIPTION
Electrons move from a positive potential to a negative potential, and the energy of the flowing electrons travels through a "sponge" of molecules, trying to find the path of least resistance.  The collision of the particles flowing from the source creates a disturbance of the wave forms, in this case the electrical signal generated by the musical notes and their frequency distribution and amplitude.  These collisions between the flowing energy waves and the conduction molecules {including the insulation covering the conductors}, creates what we hear and perceive as "bright" sound.  Additionally, there are several phases of sonic changes during the entire break-in process.  Violetmechan has spoken about his experience of hearing the ULTRA cables break in, and has done a fine job of describing the various changes in sound that occurred during his break in tests.  His very interesting thread is entitled "VSA Ultra Winter Warmers.."psychedelic trip on the musical stairway to heaven!"   There are 2,000 page views on his thread, so we see this is a very popular topic.

HOW BREAK-IN "WORKS"
After a certain period of time has passed with the signal flowing constantly, the electrical signal has "pushed" the free radical electrons out of the way, creating a smoother flow-path for the energy.  The dielectric covering that touches the conductors also undergoes a change (which can be measured) as well.  According to engineers at WBT and Furutech, the connectors also undergo an electromechanical alteration during the break in process, so you can imagine how complex all of these effects can behave.  It is "no wonder" that break in has been broadly dismissed by those who have not done the research or simply taken the time to listen!

TEST THIS THEORY YOURSELF
Break-in is easy to hear, by anyone using this method:

a. Buy a pair of interconnects, they can be $10/pr from Radio Shack, it does not matter.

b. Using one channel of your stereo system ONLY, listen to that interconnect for a few hours and make written notes on how you believe this interconnect is affecting the sound.  Make sure that you listen to both interconnects to ensure that they sound the same. (Don't laugh, but manufacturing differences between two interconnects can be often heard in "cheap" interconnects since they are made with high speed machinery and use press-fit connectors with very poor tolerances).
Listen to both of the interconnects ON THE SAME CHANNEL, as you do not want to hear a saxophone on one channel and a clarinet in the other channel (for example).  This is a test using a mono phonic source; stereo would only confuse the issue at hand.

c. Break in one (and only one) of the interconnects by simply playing it.  To continue to enjoy your stereo, use one of your previously-used interconnects on the other channel.  Play the system with one Radio Shack interconnect and your original interconnect on the other channel, for approximately 300 hours or more.  Note that only a few hours of playing time will have no effect, since it takes quite a bit of energy to establish the flow-path.

d. Go back to the mono setup with only one channel, and then compare the broken-in interconnect with the new one that had zero break in time.  Since you most likely do not have an a/b/x comparator, use the memory test:  Play one of your favorite recordings several times through the broken in interconnect, then pull it out and install the raw one.  If you hear a difference, it means that break in did have an effect.  If you do not hear a difference, please let us know on this thread.  It will be fun to read about the results you will all achieve.

AUDIBILITY OF MOLECULAR DISTRIBUTION (CAUSED BY MOVEMENT)
The second topic was brought up by a few customers, including Violetmechan who just purchased a set of ULTRA speaker cables for his VR-9SE Mk2 system.  If you have read the amazing story of his audio journey, especially the last post he wrote about having to move the cables around, you know he has clearly heard the effects of moving the cables physically.  See his thread called "VSA Ultra Winter Warmers.."psychedelic trip on the musical stairway to heaven!" 

REDISTRIBUTION OF MOLECULES AFTER PHYSICAL MOVEMENT
Nick and his team at Delphi explained that when any cable is moved physically after the break in process, the molecules of the conductors are redistributed, and the path of least resistance has to be recreated again.  Luckily for us audiophiles, this "settling" time is only a few hours; ULTRA seems to take a constant 8-12 hours before the sound quality becomes uniform.

This effect is best heard with extremely transparent cables; it may be possible that the "veil" created by impurities in the conductor, insulation, and excessive reactances in the LCR product will mask this effect.     L= inductance, C= capacitance, and R= resistance.  Their "product" is the ratio between these three electrical phenomena and can become quite complex in the miliions of combinations of various L/C/R ratios.

TRY THEM IN YOUR SYSTEM
We at Von Schweikert Audio Corp invite you to test the Master-Built cables in your own system.  As one of the largest distributors of the M-B cables in the USA, we offer low prices along with a satisfaction guarantee.  If you use the M-B cables for three months and do not believe that they are the ones for you, simply return them.  There is no restocking fee and we pay for shipping both ways, even if you live outside the USA.  I am happy to report that not a single customer has ever returned them, and we've sold over 200 complete wiring looms of the four models of M-B cables.  Remember, it takes about two or three months to not only break them in, but they need to "settle" into your system, so that is why we will let you use them for 90 days with no obligation.

REFERENCES
If you read The Absolute Sound magazine, you'll know that in June 2014, our VR-100XS was awarded Best Sound of The Show by Robert Harley, their esteemed editor and seasoned audiophile.  In October 2014, our VR-55 Aktive was awarded Best Sound Of The Show, once again by TAS, but was voted by several of their reviewers not including Mr. Harley.  The only reason I mention this is because these two systems had one thing in common:  both used Master-Built Audio Cables throughout, including Signature and ULTRA series.  Both systems also used Constellation electronics with a front end by YFS and EMM Labs.  If the Master-Built cables help us achieve the sound that reviewers have voted Best of Show, you may wish to try these cables in your own system if you are interested in achieving the sound your components are capable of. 

Several customers have told us that the Signature power cords made more of an improvement than their new $20,000 preamp or $45,000 power amp.  Where ULTRA is concerned, you might want to PM either kernalbob or violetmechan to get some unbiased answers to your questions, since we might be considered to be biased when we say that customers indicate that ULTRA changed their system more than any other component in their system, including their speakers!  By the way, only half of the M-B customer group use VSA speakers, some of them own other esteemed brands of speakers.  Please note that these cables were not designed expressly for use with our speaker systems, they are "universal."

If you have an interest in testing the Master-Built cables in your own system, please email me for a Price List and Technology Paper.  I can be reached at albert@vonschweikert.com or at home at hifiguy247@gmail.com.  I'm looking forward to hearing from all of you!

As always,

Happy Listening!
Albert Von Schweikert

walterslw

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 81
Re: Audibility of Movement in High Performance Cables
« Reply #1 on: 8 Feb 2015, 03:24 pm »
Albert et al, if one could only spring for one M-B power cord to incorporate into ones system, in your experience what would be the single most critical spot in the system that would yield greatest improvement?   In my experience with other power cords one of the most significant improvement has been at the source.   Is this the case with MB power cords too?    Is a purple sufficient for a low power source such as a dac with the bigger cords serving better purpose on power amps?

My system is sounding excellent with my current cabling, I have a spot for one new power cord, (my pre amp) and am wondering if that is the best place to start?

Chrisandalex1

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 164
Re: Audibility of Movement in High Performance Cables
« Reply #2 on: 8 Feb 2015, 04:03 pm »

REFERENCES
If you read The Absolute Sound magazine, you'll know that in June 2014, our VR-100XS was awarded Best Sound of The Show by Robert Harley, their esteemed editor and seasoned audiophile.  In October 2014, our VR-55 Aktive was awarded Best Sound Of The Show, once again by TAS, but was voted by several of their reviewers not including Mr. Harley.  The only reason I mention this is because these two systems had one thing in common:  both used Master-Built Audio Cables throughout, including Signature and ULTRA series.  Both systems also used Constellation electronics with a front end by YFS and EMM Labs.  If the Master-Built cables help us achieve the sound that reviewers have voted Best of Show, you may wish to try these cables in your own system if you are interested in achieving the sound your components are capable of. 
[/quote]

Albert,  Isn't this the show that you also used the modified SurgeX that Dave from Zenwave made?

I am so ready to order a pair of VR-55's.



Albert Von Schweikert

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 264
    • Von Schweikert Audio
Re: Audibility of Movement in High Performance Cables
« Reply #3 on: 10 Feb 2015, 07:35 am »
Walter,

We and our customer base have found that high quality power chords make the most difference on the source and preamp.  The M-B Signature power cord uses a form of passive noise reduction.  Even when a high quality noise reduction device/line conditioner is used, insertion of the Signature power cord is a revelation.  Please note that power cords not only bring power into the component, but that they behave as antennae.  With a digital unit in the system, all other power cords not only "radiate"digital noise back into the line, but also radiate noise through the air like a broadcast antenna.  The STANDARD and Signature cables eliminate those forms of distortion by the use of Patented technology developed for space craft.  There are four seperate types of electromechanical shielding on STANDARD and six types on Signature. That is why the Signature PC's are as fat as your wrist. However, they're  not stiff and can be wrapped around your arm with ease. This is a wonderful product!

The Purple Line PC's are minimalist designs that are very "pure" in tone quality, but the do not offer the noise reduction inherent in the Delphi military STANDARD series, which are priced in between Purple Line and Signature designs.  As of today, there is no ULTRA version of a power cord, but Delphi is working on it!

Chris, there is indeed a pair of VR-55's in your future!  Start looking at paint samples!  You'll have to decide if you want ULTRA rare earth powdered metal conductors as well. Those are the only two options. Call Lee or myself for pricing.

Cheers,
Albert

Albert Von Schweikert

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 264
    • Von Schweikert Audio
Re: Audibility of Movement in High Performance Cables
« Reply #4 on: 10 Feb 2015, 07:41 am »
Walter,

We and our customer base have found that high quality power chords make the most difference on the source and preamp.  The M-B Signature power cord uses a form of passive noise reduction.  Even when a high quality noise reduction device/line conditioner is used, insertion of the Signature power cord is a revelation.  Please note that power cords not only bring power into the component, but that they behave as antennae.  With a digital unit in the system, all other power cords not only "radiate"digital noise back into the line, but also radiate noise through the air like a broadcast antenna.  The STANDARD and Signature cables eliminate those forms of distortion by the use of Patented technology developed for space craft.  There are four seperate types of electromechanical shielding on STANDARD and six types on Signature. That is why the Signature PC's are as fat as your wrist. However, they're  not stiff and can be wrapped around your arm with ease. This is a wonderful product!

The Purple Line PC's are minimalist designs that are very "pure" in tone quality, but they do not offer the noise reduction inherent in the Delphi military STANDARD series, which are priced in between Purple Line and Signature designs.  As of today, there is no ULTRA version of a power cord, but Delphi is working on it!

Chris,
We did use Daves excellent Zenwave conditioner, it helped stabilize the voltage fluctuation immensely, further purifying the overall sound. We recommend this unit.
Ans yes,  there is indeed a pair of VR-55's in your future!  Start looking at paint samples. You'll have to decide if you want ULTRA rare earth powdered metal conductors as well. Those are the only two options. Call Lee or myself for pricing.

Cheers,
Albert
« Last Edit: 13 Feb 2015, 06:45 am by Albert Von Schweikert »

JackD201

Re: Audibility of Movement in High Performance Cables
« Reply #5 on: 14 Feb 2015, 10:37 pm »
Since my electronics have very robust power supplies with overkill capacitance storage and regulation my experience is that the M-B Signature power cords had the most impact on the power amplifiers. At present I have a full loom including PCs (7 of them) including 20A Signatures for the Shunyata Cyclops'.

Hi Albert, don't forget my Ultras!

kernelbob

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 434
Re: Audibility of Movement in High Performance Cables
« Reply #6 on: 15 Feb 2015, 12:38 am »
Regarding the question of where the MB Signature power cords have the biggest impact, in my system it was definitely at the power amps.  However, the preamp and DAC were also improved enough that I ended up getting MB power cords there too.

I was really hoping that the amps running the woofers could do without them since I had other highly regarded power cords feeding them, but the improvement the MB power cords brought to bass tightness, deeper extension, and added resolution made them necessary there also.

As much impact as the MB Signature power cords made on my system, I can only imagine what the addition of Ultra might yield.

violetmachan

Re: Audibility of Movement in High Performance Cables
« Reply #7 on: 15 Feb 2015, 04:58 pm »
Hi albert

it's just a strange twist of fate that your industrial kable cooker konked out when you promised to prime the ultra extreme speaker cables for me :wink:

I do remember our telephone conversation....you were right about most of the things that have happened during the evolution of  the burn in program .....

I never expected to hear the evolution of sonic events :roll:

glad I took your advise to run the cables in myself.....it's time consuming and long.....but i  am thoroughly enjoying it......all 700 hours plus :P

If I was not wrong ....did'nt you say you do need to cable cook with a kooker to get the best for the cables and optimise its geometry....even after the actual musical run in

Well before this workout I never truly believed in such a dedicated program.....this is an real eye opener in  :scratch:

1.break In of cables
2. Cables movement.

during this process ...there is an other truth/myth....it seems , I have noticed. :o

Power cables are said to offer more audible gain , followed by interconnects and finally the speaker cables.....but here for me the addition of the ultra extreme speaker cables is the most positive of the audibles in the cable domain .

I am not sure if it's the use of the true bi wire concept of 4 separates single per side of amplification .ie 8 cables in total.....that has added the ultimate jump

Glad I had the chance to discuss this concept with you( I really wanted to try this option ever since using the 8 piece harmonic tech cables from cor )......and good I went for that option even though it jumps the cost for 2 sets of speaker cable

I am pleased to hear you, Nick and Delphi are planning to release the ultra extreme power cords.....I would be keen on doin  some beta testing for the same! :thumb:









« Last Edit: 16 Feb 2015, 06:06 am by violetmachan »