RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE

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Rclark

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #100 on: 16 Oct 2012, 07:00 am »
They can only give us what they give us, I don't think they have the time to go to all those individual rooms and ask to play with dac settings. What they do well, however, is to go every show, and keep records of how the presenter sounded the years before. So I don't see a problem. I like the patterns that develop from it, for one thing, it seems some manufacturers are consistently panned, and you know they are using different source each time... and some manufacturers are consistently good.

You can also thank them for harping on room treatment. Looks like that was heard loud and clear.

They also do manage to go back to rooms of note to see how things ended up.

Tyson and Pez are an invaluable commodity for those of us who couldn't make it.

arthurs

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #101 on: 16 Oct 2012, 10:10 am »
I do find it interesting that many people tend attribute the sound of a room predominately to the speakers, with little comment on the rest of the chain (though Tyson and Pez and others rightly harp on the need for room treatments).

I spent part of Saturday specifically looking for DACs and as part of that process, asked several manufacturers to demonstrate different filter settings on their DACs.  The effect was often quite distinct, even in show conditions, and could easily take a system from interesting to dull and back again.  And those distinct effects were produced by "tweaking" a single setting on a single piece of gear.  Walk into the demo at the wrong time, and you'd risk forming an inaccurate impression.

In my opinion, the most a person can defensibly say is that they did, or did not, prefer a given show room at a given point in time with the system in that room considered as a whole, including the presence of room treatments. The number of variables at play is tremendous, and blaming the sound of a show room on any single component is an exercise fraught with peril. And as a reader, I'm going to take those comments at face value. At most, someone else's opinion is merely going to increase or decrease my desire to audition a component in my own system to form my own opinion. Spending time worrying about what other people prefer or being envious of gear I can't afford isn't going to get me any closer to a system I enjoy.

My other suggestion would be for those writing reviews at any level to fully express their own audio preferences so as to give readers a better reference point from which to interpret your comments.  Audio is an phenomenal mix of compromise in the face of physics on the part of designers, and uniquely personal preference fighting against financial and lifestyle constraints on the part of consumers, complicated by component synergy on both fronts.  No wonder the road to audio nirvana is so particularly individualized, yet so universally bumpy!

Good post Brian.  Did you find a DAC(s) you enjoyed?

django11

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Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #102 on: 16 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm »
I would just like to add that when I went to the Montreal show I found it truly remarkable how may rooms sounded bad.  Obviously if the gear was worth megabucks this impressed me even more.  We pay to go and hear this stuff!

(as a side note, Focal had a large room, into which we were herded, the doors were barred and then we were "treated" to a listen.  Once the music stopped the sales team descended on us like frenzied seagulls trying to get the last french fry on the sidewalk.  Really...)

OzarkTom

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #103 on: 16 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm »
Every CES show that I ever went to, the Wilson system was hot. They always used the Krell electronics back then on the Watt, Puppy combo. And they always had a huge ballroom to display them in. Less than two minutes of listening, I always left the room with my ears burning. :o

It just sounds like the same-o, same-o.

rollo

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Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #104 on: 16 Oct 2012, 01:02 pm »
  It was a trip meeting Tyson and Pez and many others from AC, especially Jason.  Thank you for your time and professional coverage. Your honesty and no holes barred  coverage is well received and much appreciated. Kudos.
    The products we carry were well represented in the GR, Analysis, JPS and BSGT rooms.  Spent most of my time with the boys in the GR room.  Glad I did. Meeting Danny, Dave, Gary and Eric for the first time in person it only confirmed what I felt. Dedication and honsety.  Great show great people what else could one ask for.
   See ya all next year.



charles

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Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #105 on: 16 Oct 2012, 01:06 pm »
Great to meet you too!   :thumb:

rbbert

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #106 on: 16 Oct 2012, 01:21 pm »
The wilson room had major overhang issues as I stated inadequate treatment there's more to making a room sound good than bass traps. The focal room also was obviously inadequate treatment. Read my notes, bass boominess, midrange bloom, and in my notes "Perhaps with more aggressive room treatment these problems would be overcome. "

I agree inadequate despite using quite a bit of treatment.  A big question is will it be better next year if they realize now that they need more?

Pez

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #107 on: 16 Oct 2012, 02:20 pm »
I hope every room improves year over year. And room treatment is the most obvious way to do it. I know some feel that I've been overly harsh here, but nothing could be further from the truth. I want to hear one of these megabuck systems absolutely blow my mind like I would expect them to given the price point vs other setups. Sometimes they sound pretty damn good, but never has one left me longing to be filthy stinkin rich so I can afford this stuff. And that's just an odd thing to say...

Pez

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #108 on: 16 Oct 2012, 02:22 pm »
  It was a trip meeting Tyson and Pez and many others from AC, especially Jason.  Thank you for your time and professional coverage. Your honesty and no holes barred  coverage is well received and much appreciated. Kudos.
   

Same to you Rollo, thanks for your suggestion that we give the GR room a second shot. It was worth the trip!

django11

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Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #109 on: 16 Oct 2012, 02:31 pm »
   Thank you for your time and professional coverage. Your honesty and no holes barred  coverage is well received and much appreciated.

:no_see:  Eeeek! 

No holds barred...

jhm731

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #110 on: 17 Oct 2012, 06:33 am »
jhm731,

I'm not sure why you posted and quoted from show reviews that thought the Wilson room was peachy. If it was to demonstrate that not everyone had the same impression of the room that I and several other posters had, I accept that without question. As I said above, this is a subjective hobby and there are different tastes, different likes and dislikes and as Pez & Tyson reported, two audiophiles hearing the same music played on the same system sometimes had completely different impressions. As KJ said, "It's audio and that happens."

Laura

Here's another one:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/steven-stones-best-of-show-rmaf-2012/

"Best Sound (cost no object) – Once again, the VTL/Wilson/DCS/Transparent Audio Room on the second floor (2030) garners my vote for best sound at the show. It was my first time hearing the Wilson Alexia speakers and I was more than slightly gob smacked by the system’s ease and power. Comparing Peter McGrath’s recording of Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue with my own recording over the system was a revelation. I’ve never heard a more revealing, yet still musical system. The reproduction chain seemed virtually non-existent as we compared microphone placements and listening perspectives of the two recordings."

Laura-

It's not just that "two audiophiles hearing the same music played on the same system sometimes had completely different impressions."

I posted these quotes, because you walked into room 2030 with a chip on your shoulder against Wilson.

It's really sad that your personal bias didn't allow you to hear what other people thought was a very impressive new product.

Aloha



wisnon

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #111 on: 17 Oct 2012, 07:13 am »
I dont think he CARES waht others think! That is not the point. To him, what HE think is what is important and I dont see why that upsets anyone.

wisnon

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #112 on: 17 Oct 2012, 07:13 am »
I dont think he CARES what others think! That is not the point. To him, what HE think is what is important and I dont see why that upsets anyone.
All this is to be taken with a grain of salt anyway. It supposed to be light-hearted fun!

doug s.

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Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #113 on: 17 Oct 2012, 01:08 pm »
I posted these quotes, because you walked into room 2030 with a chip on your shoulder against Wilson.

It's really sad that your personal bias didn't allow you to hear what other people thought was a very impressive new product.

huh?!?  what is really sad is that your bias doesn't allow you to believe some people think what you like sounds like crap.

have you ever followed laura's posts?  your comment is completely out of line.  i am certain, 100%, that laura had no chip on her shoulder that would have prevented her from liking the wilsons, if she actually thought they sounded good. 

and i was accused of making "irresponsible" comments in this thread!   :lol:

aloha,

doug s.

dminches

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #114 on: 17 Oct 2012, 01:13 pm »
I have never understood why people discuss each other's opinion on something since it is just that.  It isn't an absolute.  These forums are more valuable when people bring information to others such as new products they saw, etc.  It is fine to state an opinion but that opinion should really only be valuable to people who are familiar with that person's taste.  Otherwise it is just pink noise.

jtwrace

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Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #115 on: 17 Oct 2012, 01:16 pm »
Laura-

I posted these quotes, because you walked into room 2030 with a chip on your shoulder against Wilson.

It's really sad that your personal bias didn't allow you to hear what other people thought was a very impressive new product.

Aloha
Having emailed and PM'd Laura many times, I find these comments rude.  If you ever met her, I can say with certainty you wouldn't be saying this.  She is not only an excellent woman but also a die hard audiophile that seems to be able to afford pretty much whatever she wants (judging by her system profile).  I don't believe there was any bias but just her opinion which she is most definitely entitled too as all of us are.


Quiet Earth

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Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #116 on: 17 Oct 2012, 01:44 pm »
I'll be so happy when the election is over.  :thankyou:

 :green:

jdoris

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #117 on: 17 Oct 2012, 02:50 pm »
Not surprising that there's a bit of a "U-shaped" distribution on Wilsons.  To my ear, the highs are presented in a way that some think of as "detail" and others find "edgy."  I'm very sensitive to forwardness in the highs, and find myself in the second camp (although I somehow think of the Wilson tonal balance in as "cool" rather than "hot," which might help explain the "uninvolving" complaint sometimes made).

Plenty of criticism along these lines, but recently, I've been reading reviews (Dudley?) saying "I didn't used to like Wilson, but I really like," the Sophia III, or Sasha, or whatever.  I visited the Wilson room with the expectation that perhaps the house sound had relaxed a bit, but I had  the same impression others here did, and I had on hearing the Sophia II -- the new is definitely of a piece with the old.

But it's easy for me to see how someone who likes the virtues Wilson promotes would like them, just as it easy to see how someone who favors a more relaxed, "musical" presentation (perhaps at the expense of some detail), such as Daedalus, would not like them. (I'd take the Daedalus, esp. given the price difference.)

I thought Laura was pretty up front with her preferences, and also in acknowledging that others might differ.

Peace,

John


Pez

Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #118 on: 17 Oct 2012, 03:16 pm »
Enough Wilson talk. Any mention of Wilson below this line is automatically going to be deleted.

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ted_b

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Re: RMAF 2012 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #119 on: 17 Oct 2012, 03:26 pm »
Pez, your comments are great; they remind me of President Woodrow WILSON.

Oh, I need my tennis racquet back that you borrowed from me.  You know, the one with WILSON on the strings?

I just watched Castaway again......  oh never mind.  :)