AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Source Component Reviews => Topic started by: Stercom on 5 Feb 2014, 03:20 am
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Just wanted to share my thoughts on my newest acquisition: the Sony HAP-Z1ES music server. This is Sony's flagship DSD playback system. Its main claim to fame is its DSD remastering engine which converts all signals to 128 FS DSD. It, of course, has all the "normal" amenities like a 1TB hard drive, Android/IPad interface, Gracenote database, Wi-Fi built-in etc, but the remastering engine is why you pay 1k more than its little brother the HAP-S1/B which doesn't have the remastering option (or the larger hard drive). I recently had all my SACDs ripped (thanks Ted B) many of which I also have ripped at 16bit, 44.1 kHz and on vinyl. So I was able to compare the DSD version against the 44.1 kHz DSD remastered and the analog version. My opinion may be fairly surprising. First, let me say........ vinyl is still king. Nothing beats a mechanical, analog playback system. Digital just don't sound as natural. But (and its a BIG but) the Sony HAP-Z1ES shows digital reproduction is getting very, very good! However, it was not the DSD signals I was most impressed with but the DSD remastered signals!! At times I preferred the remastered version to the DSD version and other times I did not. The point is your 16 bit, 44.1 kHz ripped CDs have a new lease on life! Sony went "all-in" with this technology and it has paid-off. I highly recommend you listen to the HAP-Z1ES - I think its a break-through piece of equipment!
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There is also a review in the Absolute Sound.
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There is also a review in the Absolute Sound.
I just read the review in the absolute sound - it basically echoes what "stercom" has said - it kind of makes me want to purchase one
i have had sony products in the past and was not that impressed (especially sacd players)
but im very attracted to this piece especially after reading what stercom says and steven stone
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and here is the What HiFi review from england
http://www.whathifi.com/review/sony-hap-z1es
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I haven't read The Absolute Sound review yet but the What Hi-Fi? review covers all the bases nicely.
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Many thanks for the review Stercom. I've been anxious to hear what people say about it. I wanted to see and hear it for myself but even the Sony flagship store in NYC didn't have one (and they didn't anticipate getting one either :duh:). I asked how can you buy a $2K high end audio piece of equipment without auditioning it and he gazed at me as if I was speaking in Martian.
I was curious if you looked under the hood to see what D/A converter is used and what the output circuitry looked like, discrete or op amp, and if op amp, which one.
Does anyone think this can compete with the Auraliti PK90 -> DAC (Sonore exD or Northstar Impulso) ??
Sorry for all the questions.
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The DAC chip is a Texas Instruments PCM1795. It is worth about 4 dollars in quantities of 1000.
Sony probably paid two bucks for it.......
I mention this for two reasons:
1. For some reason, Sony believes that everyone wants their music converted to DSD
and they give you no way to store PCM, to be played PCM
2. Let's say you LOVE this Sony, but you're an audio perfectionist and in 2 years you know
there's a DSD Dac you've got your eye on that's probably good enough to obliterate
the 4.00 dac chip in the Sony........
That's easy.........just use the 2000.00 Sony unit's digital out.....
OOPS
There's not one......
Sony believes that you should never be able to upgrade to expand on this unit's strengths......
Also, where does Sony get off limiting someone to 1TB by not offering NAS support
Do they even know how big a typical DSD file is??????
Sorry to be a parade rainer......but in my opinion, this Sony is anything but state of the art......
I'd look at the new Aurender units for DSD compatibility or the Bryston BDP2 for state
of the art PCM.....
then go buy whatever DAC you want.......
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Many thanks for the review Stercom. I've been anxious to hear what people say about it. I wanted to see and hear it for myself but even the Sony flagship store in NYC didn't have one (and they didn't anticipate getting one either :duh:). I asked how can you buy a $2K high end audio piece of equipment without auditioning it and he gazed at me as if I was speaking in Martian.
I was curious if you looked under the hood to see what D/A converter is used and what the output circuitry looked like, discrete or op amp, and if op amp, which one.
Does anyone think this can compete with the Auraliti PK90 -> DAC (Sonore exD or Northstar Impulso) ??
Sorry for all the questions.
Yes, Thank you STERCOM for the review. I'm also curious about the dac and would like to here about comparisons with computer based servers like the macmini.
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2 PCM 1795 32 bit DACs running in mono mode and an op amp based output stage almost exactly like that on the 5400 SACD player. Discrete regulators for output stage. Dual large transformers. Pretty nice but needs super tweaking.
Yes, no digital out but I believe you can disable the DSD upsampling. You can add 10 plus terabyte usb drives to the usb input on the back making it have super large storage.
All things digital will be superceded. In two years we may have a DSD DAC for one dollar that trumps everything. You also might die tomorrow. You decide what pleasure you want now. Any DAC you buy needs to be tweaked! They are all not done to the max....maybe the Trinity DAC? ($52,000, the latest rage).
For those wanting an all in one not to expensive machine to play high rez it maybe just the right machine. With super tweaking it may rival serious high end digital playback.
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Ditto Ric Schultz. Well said.
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I have a friend who ordered one 2 months ago and as it hasn't arrived yet,
he got curious after hearing a rumor in a forum concerning DSD conversion
of all files not being able to be defeated.
The response he got from Sony support stated that many people erroneously
believe the DSEE (digital sound enhancement engine) refers to that function,
which it does not. DSEE can only be enabled for non DSD files and non
streamed files and it is for restoring high frequency information typically
compressed in low bitrate PCM files.....
They told him DSD conversion is not defeatable, however, they are considering
providing something at a later date to enable defeating the DSD conversion, but
at this point it looks like it would require a return to the factory for implementation.....
He has cancelled the order and upgraded to the new 2900.00 Aurender that comes
with a single 1TB drive......and will use it with the DAC in his SACD player until he can
afford to upgrade that as well......
I applaud Sony for the effort, but I've heard this unit both at a show and in a home
environment and it is absolutely NOT state of the art..........it sounds pretty similar
to every 5400 CD Player I've ever heard. IMO the Bryston BDP2 obliterates it,
but they don't offer DSD until their Manic Moose becomes standard firmware.....
Maybe we will see Modwright hotrod the crap out of it once it's been on the market
a while..........
If Sony would just let me decide how I want my PCM files presented and give
me an upgrade path should I want a better DAC, I'd be excited about this unit,
but since they give a buyer neither, I just don't think it's something that is
considerable for my purposes.........
For those who don't think they'll ever want better .......it should be great fun.......
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I don't know about Modwright but I do know someone else who is going to mod the crap out of it.
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They told him DSD conversion is not defeatable, however, they are considering
providing something at a later date to enable defeating the DSD conversion, but
at this point it looks like it would require a return to the factory for implementation.....
In the new issue of the absolute sound - steven stone who gave the review says:
"You can, if you wish, turn off the DSD Remastering engine via the main settings menu so the HAP-Z1ES will not convert PCM to DSD."
It looks like they already added it
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The DAC chip is a Texas Instruments PCM1795. It is worth about 4 dollars in quantities of 1000.
Sony probably paid two bucks for it.......
here is a link to the dac
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCM1795DBR-192kHz-32-Bit-DAC-SSOP-PCM1795-32Bit-TSSOP-/150594926958
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Yeah, you can easily turn the DSD remastering off and anyone who has used it in a home environment would know that or least tell their friend about it before he nixed a buying decision. Whatever. My wife is a professional musician and I hear a lot of live music. This technology is very good. I"m sure if you redo the output stage it will sound even better. Peace.
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Whoever @ Sony who stated DSD remastering couldn't be defeated was in error....
I just found it in the manual, and it can.......the DSEE can as well.......
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Here are a few pics to supplement my comments:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94372)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94373)
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Yeah, you can easily turn the DSD remastering off and anyone who has used it in a home environment would know that or least tell their friend about it before he nixed a buying decision. Whatever. My wife is a professional musician and I hear a lot of live music. This technology is very good. I"m sure if you redo the output stage it will sound even better. Peace.
I love the pics you posted - great room and setup - can you tell us the components
also let us know how the sony sounds say a week from now and 2 weeks from now
Do you like it - love it - dissapointed a little in its sound?
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I have been looking at this as a replacement to my sonos, but the cheap DAC and lack of a digital out are deal killers for me. Also "DSD Remastering" seems marketing speak for a simple data conversion with possible upsampling. In general I have never liked upsampling, it just doesn't sound quite right.
Curiously for half the price you can get what seems almost the same player with a digital out and minus the DSD Mastering. The hard drive is only 500GB, but 1TB isn't really enough anyway so I would end up using USB drives in any event. It also comes with an amplifier section that would go unused, but at least that may give it some added life as a second digital only system down the road.
http://store.sony.com/500gb-hi-res-music-player-system-zid27-HAPS1//cat-27-catid-All-Res-Audio?vva_ColorCode=000000
Other than the small hard drive and lack of DSD mastering, is there any other reason not to save $1000 and get this unit?
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I have been looking at this as a replacement to my sonos, but the cheap DAC and lack of a digital out are deal killers for me. Also "DSD Remastering" seems marketing speak for a simple data conversion with possible upsampling. In general I have never liked upsampling, it just doesn't sound quite right.
Curiously for half the price you can get what seems almost the same player with a digital out and minus the DSD Mastering. The hard drive is only 500GB, but 1TB isn't really enough anyway so I would end up using USB drives in any event. It also comes with an amplifier section that would go unused, but at least that may give it some added life as a second digital only system down the road.
http://store.sony.com/500gb-hi-res-music-player-system-zid27-HAPS1//cat-27-catid-All-Res-Audio?vva_ColorCode=000000
Other than the small hard drive and lack of DSD mastering, is there any other reason not to save $1000 and get this unit?
I don't see that this player has a digital out either and that's a deal breaker for me as well. Is DSD conversion the same as up sampling?
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I don't see that this player has a digital out either and that's a deal breaker for me as well. Is DSD conversion the same as up sampling?
My bad. I had read a review somewhere that said it had a digital out. With no digital out it isn't an option either. Sorry for the misinformation.
I am honestly not sure on the technicality of DSD "Remastering". From the description it seems like upsampling and conversion to DSD, both of which would alter the original file in an artificial way - although it seems from the reviews that the effect is pleasing to some so not necessarily a bad thing I suppose.
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Almost all DACs use "cheap DACs". The Happy 1 uses 2 DACs in mono mode. The only DACs that cost any money are the ESS big 32 bit jobbie and mono 1704 DACs ($75 each!!).....all other DAC chips are under $10.....most under $5.00. The $7,000 Lumin player uses two "cheap" Wolfson DACs. The Empricial Audio DAC uses one "cheap" DAC. Cheap DACs can sound good.....really good. Just depends on implementation.
Meitner and Playback Design use upsampling to double speed DSD in all their DACs and players. They have for years. Now other people are trying it. Seems to work well from what I have read. And since you can defeat it, well, you be the judge.
The reason Sony was confused about being able to turn off the upsampling is that the player originally could not do this. A later software upgrade allowed this ability. Originally the only thing you could control was the DSEE mode.
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I just read the review in the absolute sound - it basically echoes what "stercom" has said - it kind of makes me want to purchase one
i have had sony products in the past and was not that impressed (especially sacd players)
but im very attracted to this piece especially after reading what stercom says and steven stone
Having just read the Absolute Sound review of the Sony HAP-Z1ES UDD Audio Player, I'd like to add to the discussion by adding more details as to what Steven Stone concluded. The review says it is a deal breaker for $1999 (MSRP), and he was impressed with the ability of the "DSD remastering engine" to convert any PCM file into DSD128 format, regardless of the original sample or bit rate. As to sound quality, Stone A/B compared the Sony to a Sonos ZP100 feeding a Mytek Stereo 192 DAC via a coaxial digital connection and a Mac Mini running Pure Music into the Mytek Stereo 192 via its USB connection, and found that it took several sessions before he could consistently recognize the Sony from the other sources (using Ethernet cable). He stated any conclusion as to whether the sound quality was more neutral or preferable will very likely depend on the rest of your system. Otherwise, he could not tell the difference in hearing the music files in native output, i.e., 16/44.1 or 24/96 PCM and did not hear any difference when switching between the DSD Remastering Engine and PCM on standard Red Book or higher definition digital files.
As configured, the Sony does not allow the integration of an external DAC however, as it is only connected to your home network via Ethernet cable or Wi-fi. In addition to a 1 terabyte hard drive enclosed in the player for the transferred music, you also can add additional hard drives connected via USB. It's only outputs to the speakers (or the rest of your system) is via RCA analog plugs unbalanced or XLR balanced connectors.
My set up to hear my music (FLAC) from my computer is via a Squeezebox transporter via an external Eastern Electric tubed DAC through a preamp/amp. Unless I am missing something, the setups A/B compared by Stone did not include using stand alone preamp/amp/DACs or he chose not to disclose what those components were. If that is the case, perhaps he has provided incomplete information to understand how he appraised the sound quality of the HAP-Z1ES used in a traditional two channel system.
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I should have given more explanation in my original review. This is a music server meaning you store your music on the built-in 1TB hard drive. There is no need to stream your music from a computer or use an external DAC. You can add hard drives via USB port ( I have another 3 TB drive attached to mine for a total of 4 TB of storage). The DAC is built-in. It can decode basically ANY format including DSD (DSF,DSDIFF), PCM (44.1k/ 48k/ 88.2k/ 96k/ 176.4k/ 192kHz·16/ 24/ 32bit) DSD(2.8/ 5.6MHz), WAV, AIFF, FLAC, ALAC, ATRAC Advanced Lossless, ATRAC, MP3, AAC, and WMA. The HAP-Z1ES includes a Remastering Engine which converts ALL its signals to DSD. You can turn the Remastering Engine off if you want. It does not have a digital output and even if it did you could not transfer DSD or the DSD signal from the Remastering Engine. Sony provides excellent software to transfer your music from your computer and then access it via IPad or tablet. Once your music is stored on the HAP-Z1ES the software will transfer via WiFi (wired or wireless) any music you add to your computer automatically if you want it to. Others may disagree, but in my opinion, its an excellent value at $1,999 based on its features, build quality and sound quality. Plus it has a 5 year parts and labor warranty.
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Others may disagree, but in my opinion, its an excellent value at $1,999 based on its features, build quality and sound quality. Plus it has a 5 year parts and labor warranty.
so for me - the sound quality is the most important - does it really sound good? or are you a little disappointed
i like the fact that it stores all of your music files and you can add a hard drive thru its usb port
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As to sound quality - its the best digital playback I have had in my system. I have owned the following digital sources: Sony SCD-1 (both stock & professionally modified); SACD 777ES; Olive 4HD music server; Cary 306; Shindo Arome; Metrum Acoustics Octave NOS DAC; Eastern Electric DAC+; Sim Audio 100D DAC; Sony NS-755V (professionally modified); Monarchy Audio DIP/Upscaler; Sheng DAC-01A DAC; Logitech Squeezebox Touch with linear power supply, and various other digital sources by EAD, Denon etc., going back many years. The HAP-Z1ES presents a very large and relaxed soundstage. There is a natural decay to the notes and the leading edge of the note is properly rendered. If you have ever compared a good quality, properly set-up analog system to most digital sources you know exactly what I'm trying to say. The Remastering Engine in no way hurt the sound and in almost all cases made the soundstage wider and even more natural sounding. If you don't like the Remastering Engine then turn it off. Will you like it in your system? I don't know - "sound quality" is very subjective and system dependent.
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As to sound quality - its the best digital playback I have had in my system. I have owned the following digital sources: Sony SCD-1 (both stock & professionally modified); SACD 777ES; Olive 4HD music server; Cary 306; Shindo Arome; Metrum Acoustics Octave NOS DAC; Eastern Electric DAC+; Sim Audio 100D DAC; Sony NS-755V (professionally modified); Monarchy Audio DIP/Upscaler; Sheng DAC-01A DAC; Logitech Squeezebox Touch with linear power supply, and various other digital sources by EAD, Denon etc., going back many years.
thanks for the dacs and cd players you have used - sounds similar to me - albeit different dacs and cd players
want to purchase the sony even more now
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I personally have the remastering and DSD up converter turned off. I felt it softened the music just slightly which was not appealing to me. If you listen to Rebecca pidgeon sing Auld lang syne there is a horn a couple min into the track. Literally every time I hear this horn come in I smile. One of my tests for the ability of a new component is if I am smiling after this song. The remastering engine softens this just enough that it loses its sparkle for me. Luckily you can disable it and all is good :)
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As to sound quality - its the best digital playback I have had in my system.
My question is does the Sony provide the practical application when you are listening to Internet radio through the player of not only listening to it, but saving it as a track as a DSD file and/or as the original file as configured by the radio broadcasting source on the 1 terabyte internal hard drive.
Otherwise, you are paying a lot of money for a radio.
Thanks for the clarification
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I have not used the internet radio function yet but it does not save radio signals as a DSD file on the hard drive. (I think that's what you are asking)
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I have not used the internet radio function yet but it does not save radio signals as a DSD file on the hard drive. (I think that's what you are asking)
Thanks for the quick reply. If this Sony does not record radio signals as a file (DSD or otherwise), what equipment in the market fulfills this function for internet radio or even broadcast FM radio? Thx.
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Thanks for the quick reply. If this Sony does not record radio signals as a file (DSD or otherwise), what equipment in the market fulfills this function for internet radio or even broadcast FM radio? Thx.
That sounds like a question for another thread. There might be a recording program or app that will record internet streams. You should start a new thread for this, I'm sure you will get good answers from the good people around here.
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I don't doubt that this is an excellent sounding unit, but as it typically the case with Sony (SACD, Mini-Disc, DAT, etc), it's their marketing and design decisions that I don't understand.
From what I understand, this unit cannot be connected to a computer to be used (passively) as a DAC. Instead, it insists that you use its internal operating system to manage your music library and control playback. That may be simpler for some, but it's a deal breaker for me.
JRiver (and other media player applications) offer DSD128 upsampling and it works extremely well for DACs that excel at DSD decoding vs PCM. Futhermore, a computer based system offers superior functionality, flexibilty, expandability, upgradablity and far greater control over the user experience.
Furthermore, where is the DSD content that Sony has said they'll be offering? Thriller & Abraxas, etc. They've only released a few albums that were already available on SACD years ago.
Sony's greatness (goodness?) seems to be limited to their engineering IMO.
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Marketing driven yes - simple to use, will pull over and store and play your entire library.
This concept will serve 98% of their target market.
Their target market is not technophiles that want every different type of option or ability to use in an infinite number of computer or software variations.
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Marketing driven yes - simple to use, will pull over and store and play your entire library.
This concept will serve 98% of their target market.
Their target market is not technophiles that want every different type of option or ability to use in an infinite number of computer or software variations.
You're absolutely right. Different strokes for different folks.
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I'd love to have a digital input and volume control - but alas, nothings easy in this hobby :|
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Marketing driven yes - simple to use, will pull over and store and play your entire library.
This concept will serve 98% of their target market.
Their target market is not technophiles that want every different type of option or ability to use in an infinite number of computer or software variations.
I think this a great marketing ploy by sony - because its so user friendly and easy - its making it so much easier for me to take the digital plunge - without having to have a nervous breakdown - i like the fact that i just download the music on my computer and the sony just retrieves it and stores it on its on drive - and it sounds good too - and i have the option for dsd or not. I dont have to see a therapist because i have computer music phobia
My head doesnt have to spin with the terms usb inputs, server/nas system, usb powered, raid data, ethernet cable, smb mode, dlna software, dts codecs, seagate nas drive
gapless, j river streaming, asynchronous usb, double dsd, spotify, htpcmicro - usb, foobar, wasabi push and etc...
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You nailed it with that post
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Waiting for more reviews and dac comparisons.......I wonder how long it took for Sony sacd players mods to be offered? Definitely an interesting device. May be my way out of disc changing
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They lost me with no digital input. That seems like an oversight that just might lose them quite a bit of potential customers.
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They lost me with no digital input. That seems like an oversight that just might lose them quite a bit of potential customers.
Me too. It's a curious omission for their top-of-the-line ES unit. It could have worked as a server for some and a DAC for others. That would have made it attractive to lots more people.
Sony does offer a unit that's lower in the product line that has a digital input, but there was something else about it that wasn't to my liking.
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The point is your 16 bit, 44.1 kHz ripped CDs have a new lease on life! Sony went "all-in" with this technology and it has paid-off. I highly recommend you listen to the HAP-Z1ES - I think its a break-through piece of equipment!
i purchased the sony with a little trepidation - although there is def a learning curve here - its very simple once you get the hang of what to do. didnt think i would enjoy listening to files - compared to spinning and listening to my cd's - its very early in my critiquing - but a couple of cd's that i downloaded to the player and a couple of tracks that i have downloaded that are 192kz/24bit and 96kz/24bit - sound really really good
i was so reluctant to take the computer plunge - but this way makes it so easy - and the smartphone app is wonderful - it lets you can control everything from the palm of your hand - without having to use the limited and funky remote
getting used to - but am happy so far with everything - got a lot of answers from the dedicated faqs that sony has on the internet
ill keep you posted about my progress and sound quality
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Plus it has a 5 year parts and labor warranty.
Stercom or anyone else ... How do you know warranty is 5 years? Where is this documented? I looked all over Sony website and couldn't find warranty info anywhere.
Thanks, Wayne
PS. Just joined today.
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Stercom or anyone else ... How do you know warranty is 5 years? Where is this documented? I looked all over Sony website and couldn't find warranty info anywhere.
Thanks, Wayne
PS. Just joined today.
this is what came with the unit - i swear
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94732)
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this is what came with the unit - i swear
Many thanks for the warranty info. Five years is a good warranty length. To me, it's a selling point. Lots of audio gear (even quality stuff) is only one or two years. Particularly for a product that includes a hard drive, warranty length strikes me as a pretty important feature. Hard drives go south all the time. I'm surprised Sony hasn't done more to publicize the fact that they've put a five year warranty on this product.
Regards, Wayne
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All of Sony's ES series products include a 5 year warranty.
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Just wondering if any of those who've purchased the HAP-Z1ES have used the gapless playback feature and/or the volume normalization feature and, if so, what your impressions are of how effective they are.
Regards, Wayne
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I do not have much if any music that requires hapless playback. As for the volume normalization I would have used it but from the manual it sounds as though it only works if tunred on before you import your music. It took a full 24 hours to import my iTunes library and another 5 days solid to import my external drive onto its reformatted external, so not redoing it.
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I use gapless playback. There are no annoying extra time intervals or "clicking" noises between tracks that I've heard with other equipment. Its especially important if you listen to a lot of classical or opera that really needs to flow smoothly between tracks as was intended by the composer. Even though I was getting some noticeable changes in volume levels between tracks/albums I kept the volume normalization turned off. I finally tried it on auto mode and there are no adverse side effects as far as I can hear. As to the original import/transfer times, I have just over 1TB of music which is mostly in FLAC and DSD. The total transfer took about 18 hours via LAN cable wired directly to my router, perhaps you have a lot more music than me or you did it wirelessly?
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Pray tell, how do you get over 1TB of music/data into a 1TB internal hard drive (less with preinstalled DSD files) :scratch:
If I get the unit I will have an external hard drive connected to the back. 18 hours is a long time.
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You can expand the storage. I've got a 3TB drive attached via the USB.
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Here is a link to my TAS review, so you don't have to read rough paraphrases of what I actually wrote - http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sony-hap-z1es-hdd-audio-player/
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Thanks for the link, Steven. Right now I have music player/DAC separates, now I'm curious if it would sound better to combine the units in my system, maybe get the USB interface out of the way.
Stercom, wouldn't it be faster to transfer the files to the external hard drive using a computer and leave the player out of it?
Are the files organized in a proprietary way for the external drive?
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As to the original import/transfer times, I have just over 1TB of music which is mostly in FLAC and DSD. The total transfer took about 18 hours via LAN cable wired directly to my router, perhaps you have a lot more music than me or you did it wirelessly?
The 24 hour time was wired sony, wireless laptop moving 300gb. The 5 day was everything wired via Ethernet moving 3.8tb from one USB 4tb drive to the sony attached 4tb drive.
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Pray tell, how do you get over 1TB of music/data into a 1TB internal hard drive (less with preinstalled DSD files) :scratch:
If I get the unit I will have an external hard drive connected to the back. 18 hours is a long time.
FYI you will need a second harddrive as you cannot just plug your drive with the music on it into the Sony. The sony must reformat the drive making it the type it needs. Then you will have to transfer the music through the Sony into the external. It's really not a big deal though. I have my laptop plugged in sitting on the rack, you can play music via the internal drive while the transfer is taking place.
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The 24 hour time was wired sony, wireless laptop moving 300gb.
so far i have done all of my transferring wirelessly with absolutely no glitches and everything sounds wonderful!
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I'm surprised Steve from TAS was not able to hear a difference between DSD, enhanced and original audio format if I read this review correctly :scratch:...it will be interesting to hear what other new owners experiences are.
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I'm thinking this unit would be perfect for a hi end headphone rig. HAPZies, SET headphone amp, and phones sitting next to me from the couch.
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Steven,
That was a fantastic review, for me because you took us with you setting the HAP up and your detailed explanation or its feature set.
One question I have, realising of course you are using different dacs is whether you could hear a difference between the mac mini and the HAP?
While you didn't state your opinion about this, I for one wish Sony would have incorporated a digital input and if possible a digital out so that one could utilize the DSD in the HAP with other digital sources and could add ones own preference for a dac.
Thank You for the review and the link.
Greg
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Steven,
I also found your review informative and appreciate your work in putting it together. Thank you.
One question I have has to do with the comparisons you did with the Mytek. In the paragraph where you write about doing "a number of A/B comparisons between the HAP-Z1ES and two streaming audio/computer based sources" (as well as in the two paragraphs that follow), you didn't specify what kinds of files you were listening to. Where you comparing playback of a hi-res PCM file (e.g. FLAC) on the Mytek versus the same file on the Sony with the DSD remastering turned off on the Sony or where you comparing playback of a native DSD file through the Mytek versus the Sony or do your review comments apply to both of these situations?
Regards, Wayne
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so far i have done all of my transferring wirelessly with absolutely no glitches and everything sounds wonderful!
so its sunday - and i left the player on playing a 16/44 track all night - and the player def sounds more rich and warmer then lets say 2 days ago
i mean a 192/24 bit track from patrica barber (spring song) sounded clean and clear on thursday - but now it sounds like the player has some warmth (its still clean and clear)
the player sounded so sterile on thursday
dont want to get into the breaking in discussion - because i know some people will have a nervous breakdown about breaking in - vs - its all in my head
im just updating you on what i have experienced so far - albeit a very small sample
but again - no glitches as far as transferring files from my computer (all done wiressly)
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so its sunday - and i left the player on playing a 16/44 track all night - and the player def sounds more rich and warmer then lets say 2 days ago
i mean a 192/24 bit track from patrica barber (spring song) sounded clean and clear on thursday - but now it sounds like the player has some warmth (its still clean and clear)
the player sounded so sterile on thursday
I FULLY agree. Here is some comments I made on a different site in regards to what I heard with breakin.
The few concerns I had with it out of the box were that the bass was a little light, the highs were a tad shrill, and the image was just a little diffused. Literally everyone of those concerns were put to rest tonight. The bass was more forceful than I have heard yet out of the Maggie's, the images were tight again and the highs maintained their crispness but dropped the hint of shrillness. The sony is definitely going to be a keeper. This was after about 4-5 days running constant.
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im just updating you on what i have experienced so far - albeit a very small sample
So its wednesday - and i have left the unit on most of the time since sunday - my experience so far (remember it could change again soon) is that i like the dsd upsampling off and the dsee filter off as well - everything sounds so much more natural to me - the music that i have downloaded at 16/44 sound like they do on my cd players (which is nice) - the music that is downloaded at 96/24 or 194/24 or 88/24 sound better still (really impressed) - with the dsd 64 - the music generally sounds impeccable (very impressed)
it seems like the unit needs to really break in a lot - (please dont challenge me on this - its only my perception) - overall then - count me in - so far
again - no issues (very simple) with downloading and i was very downloaded challenged (the sony makes it very easy to do)
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I've been trying different power cables, interconnects and footers. The differences are easily heard with this unit. I still prefer the Remastering Engine on pretty much all material. The soundstage is wider and more relaxed with it engaged. I also haven't had such a dramatic change in sound as Stew reports. So, as with all equipment, it needs to be heard in your system with your own ears.
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I heard a pretty significant improvement as the unit broke in. It has about a week on it now.
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It would be nice if this player could connect to an external CD drive (like the new Macbook Pro can connect to an external USB CD drive
since they don't seem to be installing them anymore) and one can rip music directly into it. Plus a set of analog inputs (for AD conversion / archiving) and a digital output for those who might want a different dac later on. Nice to see the use of linear power supplies in it though :thumb:
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Vinnie,
I couldn't agree more. I really would like to purchase one of these. However, I would much prefer the ability to add an external drive for the purposes you mentioned, and really, really wish it had a digital out to give you the flexibility/upgradeability later. Sadly, there are simply no other options anywhere near this price point, so the combination of the Absolute Sound review, and users comments here still have me pondering the purchase.
JC
It would be nice if this player could connect to an external CD drive (like the new Macbook Pro can connect to an external USB CD drive
since they don't seem to be installing them anymore) and one can rip music directly into it. Plus a set of analog inputs (for AD conversion / archiving) and a digital output for those who might want a different dac later on. Nice to see the use of linear power supplies in it though :thumb:
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the combination of the Absolute Sound review, and users comments here still have me pondering the purchase.
I remain on the fence also while awaiting other professional reviews (e.g. Stereophile) and further user comments here and elsewhere. So far the "early returns" are mixed to say the least.
:scratch: Wayne
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It would be nice if this player could connect to an external CD drive (like the new Macbook Pro can connect to an external USB CD drive
since they don't seem to be installing them anymore) and one can rip music directly into it. Nice to see the use of linear power supplies in it though :thumb:
your right vinnie - however because you can connect an external drive to the unit (with music already ripped on it) and virtually expand its storage to you hearts content - it really fits the bill for a lot of us who were afraid to take the computer music plunge. its really no big deal to rip to the computer (for me an external drive) and then transfer it over to the sony or store the ripped music on an external drive - so you can feed that into the sony
it doesnt hurt that the sound quality is very good too - which is one of the top concerns for me - your not sacrificing sound quality just to make the downloading of music to your computer easy - which is nice
hope you and the family are good vinnie!
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Ok - so you can load up a drive with up to 1TB of music and then plug it into the Sony to transfer? That's good, so you have a backup drive.
Can you also play directly from an external drive? (sorry if this was answered before).
it doesnt hurt that the sound quality is very good too - which is one of the top concerns for me - your not sacrificing sound quality just to make the downloading of music to your computer easy - which is nice
If the sound is up there with some of the best DSD dacs, then I can see it being a really good value. I wonder how much modding
potential is under that hood? :scratch: :green:
Cheers!
Vinnie
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Vinnie, to answer a few of your questions. It's my understanding that you can plug up to 16tb's of external drive into the Sony. The one catch is that you must let the Sony reformat the external drive and load it from a computer into the Sony. So it you have a 2tb drive worth of music you must plug a new 2tb drive into the Sony, plug your 2tb with music on it into your computer and transfer it through your network and into the Sony's ext. drive. It does this so that it presents the drive as regular storage. Besides the USB cable and a slight lag to access the music on the external drive (4tb in my case) you cannot tell when you are accessing info on the internal or external. There is no lag once the music begins, just in the initial access into the drive, probably 2sec difference.
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If the sound is up there with some of the best DSD dacs, then I can see it being a really good value. I wonder how much modding
potential is under that hood? :
Cheers!
Vinnie
Vinnie - i think what gearplay says about the external storage is right on - The sound quality is very good with all the different sample rates including dsd - but i havent compared the sony to other dsd dacs that are out there
good to see you show interest - even though its not red wine gear - wish more manufacturers would do this!
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Modding? You bet. I will be putting discrete I-V converters on each phase, then super coupling caps and out.......or optionally through a remote controlled shunt stepped volume control and zero feedback fet buffers on each phase. So, you can run the hot-rodded thang direct to amp (unbalanced or balanced). Other mods will be available too (modding potential is VERY high). I should have the first one done (will have the volume control in it....will try it without first, natch) in about 3-4 weeks.
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Ok - thanks, guys.
So would this work with a USB splitter (for more than 1 external hard drive)? If yes, then I supposed another drive can be hard-wired
internally so the internal storage could be even more? I might be missing the boat here.
I also wonder if one can change the internal hard drive with a SSD?
This beast could also be a great all-in-one player for headphone listening with the addition of a high performance headphone stage!
I'd also love to do try re-doing the output stage with tubes instead of opamps.
good to see you show interest - even though its not red wine gear - wish more manufacturers would do this!
Sure, why not? I don't plan to ever make a product like this, and I like the concept. Kinda reminds me of the Olive in some ways. It's
a nice concept and I see it as an alternative for those who don't want a computer in their audio system. Not better or worse - just another
way of doing things.
One day I hope to hear it!
Vinnie
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I've been getting a lot of questions about the HAP-Z1ES so I thought I'd make my answers public. My understanding is there is supposed to be variable output via the HDD audio remote software. I cannot get it to work, but I would rather use my preamp's volume control anyway - perhaps this will be addressed in a software update or I am simply not using it correctly. I've been asked repeatedly about sound quality. All I can say is read the professional reviews and what has been written on the boards. I think it sounds very nice yet reworking the output stage may really work wonders. A thicker (lower gauge) power cable (FlexCable), silver based interconnects (Shindo) and a good footer (Herbie's Isocups) sound best to me.................
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Been told the volume control is intended to work with the matching Sony amp. Someone may want to confirm that with Sony.
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This was just posted by someone on Audiogon:
II took a chance and opened my unit, removed the hard drive from it's cage and cloned it to an ssd.
Glad to report that the operation was a total success!
8)
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it doesnt hurt that the sound quality is very good too - which is one of the top concerns for me - your not sacrificing sound quality just to make the downloading of music to your computer easy - which is nice
so its sunday again and the player continues to improve and get better and better - its so much more refined now - then say 1.5 weeks ago - cant tell im listening to downloaded files vs a mechanical player
im liking the dsd upsampling again - as well as the dsee ----------- on balance though some music sounds good (thats not dsd to begin with) without the upsampling and some sound good with the upsampling
its a decision you can make with each album or song you play - if you want to - the recording quality to begin with obviously will determine about the upsampling or the dsee
right now im in the mode of keeping all the processing (dsd and dsee) on - but because im neurotic - it could change again
Its an easy to player to download files to ( which i have constantly said) and again the free app that you download to your smart phone that contols all the playlists - is really wonderful
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Hello everyone, I am new to this forum
I have a question and hopefully, someone could help
I am currently using the Qsonix 105 music server and I am thinking of buying the HAP Z1
The music downloaded into the Qsonix are embedded into it's proprietary software. the music within the Qsonix is also backed up into an external hard drive. The music are ripped in various forms, ie WAV, FLAC, wma etc
When read from the computer, the songs stored inside the external hard drive (back up) appears garbled with a string of unfathomable letters and numbers
My question is will the Sony recognise these "garbled" song titles and re-arrange and "decode" them into meaningful, comprehensible song names/titles?
The thought of re-ripping 15,000 song titles all over into the computer, plus reloading them into the Sony, seems like a daunting task
Your assistance to the above would be appreciated
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Your assistance to the above would be appreciated
i sent you an email on audiocircle whith a suggestion
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I heard a pretty significant improvement as the unit broke in. It has about a week on it now.
Gearplay, I see you are selling or already sold your Z1ES.
Could you share with us is it because of poor quality or features, please?
Thanks,
Ivo
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right now im in the mode of keeping all the processing (dsd and dsee) on - but because im neurotic - it could change again
so its thursday - the player is really good - i cant imagine anyone not liking the unit - especially if they want a one box fit and forget and can afford $2000
break- in is real - much to the chagrin of frank van alstine (he will argue that it doesnt exist)
its so nice to have so many songs - in all different formats - at the touch of my fingertips - without having to change a disk each time - but i can only say this because the sound quality is very good
i like the dsee feature for non dsd music - over the last 2 days i have used dsee but have kept the upsampling to dsd off ( i might put it back on) - it so changes - depending on what you hear - its not such a black or white thing.
each song on a album can be recorded differently - you can be neurotic all you want or not - its up to you
Are songs that are recorded in dsd a panacea? Again it depends on how it was recorded - so as an example the Shelby Lynne (Just a Little Lovin) - to my knowledge not recorded originally in dsd but converted to dsd by Acoustic Sounds (super hirez downloads) - sounds amazing - as does the Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto (The Girl from Impanena)
But the "Acoustic Trio DSD Sessions" that was recorded originally in dsd by nativedsd.com sounds just ok - Not bad or anything - but not - "oh my god"
so a little update on my progress
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That Shelby Lynn recording was ANALOG, iirc.
I have the Getz/Gilberto DSD and that is also an excellent recording.
Thanks for your thoughts on the Sony
Not sure how this was putting words in someone's mouth or somehow offensive, but comments retracted.
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Please limit any comments to facts and your own opinions, without putting words in anyone else's mouth.
Thank you.
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Thinking about one of these too. can live with no digital in and out. Is it true that volume control feature only works with other Sony products?
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Quick question. Does this unit have the ability to do any streaming with services like Beats or Spotify?
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That Shelby Lynn recording was ANALOG, iirc.
I have the Getz/Gilberto DSD and that is also an excellent recording.
Thanks for your thoughts on the Sony
Not sure how this was putting words in someone's mouth or somehow offensive, but comments retracted.
I'm pretty sure he was talking about the Frank comment by smargo.
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Quick question. Does this unit have the ability to do any streaming with services like Beats or Spotify?
Im not sure - maybe someone else can respond - im gonna say i dont think it can - the only thing that so far i can see is that
you can
1. rip cd's to your computer or if you already have music files ripped - or if files or cd's are ripped on an attached drive to your computer - then download them into the sony (wired or wireless)
2. attach (wired) an external hard drive to the usb 2.0 port in back of the unit - in other words the sony will see that drive as well as its own internal drive (not sure how much storage you can add) - i know the external drive has to be formatted.
3. download music from a download site - such as hd tracks - hi rez downloads - native dsd - etc onto your computer or attached drive - then download them into the sony (wire or wireless)
"Is it true that volume control feature only works with other Sony products?" - (this was asked by nicd)
you can use the volume control to connect to an amplifier that is not a sony - im sure of this
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"Is it true that volume control feature only works with other Sony products?" - (this was asked by nicd)
you can use the volume control to connect to an amplifier that is not a sony - im sure of this
Can you explain how? I was trying to figure this out the other day.
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Thanks Smargo,
Most current DAC's have volume control on the chip. I thought it was unusual to only control Sony products.
harri009, are you using the phone or tablet app to control the Sony? I would think there is a slider volume control in the screen somewhere.
I read somewhere it would play internet radio, I think that would include Pandora and spotify and those services. On the Sonos players, they add stations with software when they have finalized the graphics and tested the interface. I would assume the Sony is similar.
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Can you explain how? I was trying to figure this out the other day.
ok - here is the link by sony that tells you how to do this - this is word for word by sony
http://docs.esupport.sony.com/homeav/Hi-Res_Audio/HAPZ1ES_guide/en/contents/TP0000221999.html
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The volume control is for use with integrated amps (Sony or other) that have a built in remote function. I don't believe the Sony can drive an amp (basic/non-integrated) directly. My optional mods will allow this (built-in remote volume control).
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I believe Ric may be correct. I had already read the manual and led me no where
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I emailed Sony about adjusting the volume with the remote and this is their response.
I understand that you wish to obtain the information about the software update of the HDD Audio Player.
Currently we don't have any information about the software update of the HDD Audio Player. If any update is released in this regard, it will be posted on our support website below.
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I emailed Sony about adjusting the volume with the remote and this is their response.
I understand that you wish to obtain the information about the software update of the HDD Audio Player.
Currently we don't have any information about the software update of the HDD Audio Player. If any update is released in this regard, it will be posted on our support website below.
Well, if they are going to implement a volume control in the HAP-Z1ES, it would have to be in the digital domain because there isn't one
in the analog output stage.
The dual PCM1795 d/a chips do allow for a 0 to -120dB digital attenuation.
I still prefer an analog volume control / preamp stage instead of using digital attenuation and feeding directly into a power amp. :wink:
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Hi
Does anyone ever open up the HAPZ1?
Is the voltage switchable between 110 and 230/240V?
Is the IEC equipped with 2 or 3 prong pins?
Thanks
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Hi
Does anyone ever open up the HAPZ1?
Is the voltage switchable between 110 and 230/240V?
Is the IEC equipped with 2 or 3 prong pins?
Thanks
maybe vinni rossi can chime in and answer your questions - he has the unit now and is exploring its internals
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I have one on order right now. Maybe Vinni can put a tube circuit into it.
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Guys, this is review thread. If you want to compare the results of a modded version against the stock version, that's perfectly fine, but the process of working out mods should really occur in another thread - either in the relevant manufacturer's circle, the lab, or another suitable circle.
Thanks!
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Hi
Does anyone ever open up the HAPZ1?
Is the voltage switchable between 110 and 230/240V?
Is the IEC equipped with 2 or 3 prong pins?
Thanks
Hi stargaze,
Voltage is not switchable in its stock form.
2-prong IEC.
Hi brj,
Good idea - I'll start a thread on the RWA forum
for those who have technical questions about what
is under the hood, mod potential, etc.
Thanks,
Vinnie
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Good idea - I'll start a thread on the RWA forum for those who have technical questions about what
is under the hood, mod potential, etc.
And here it is: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=124280.0
I hope to see some of you there.
Vinnie
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My buddy Rex just called. He received his new issue of the Absolute Sound today. Rex hasn't read all 10 pages of the Sony review, but Steven Stone sums up that the Sony is a Best Buy.
And that is what Vinnie reports on his thread.
Maybe this is TAS review. Title is a game changer.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sony-hap-z1es-hdd-audio-player/?page=3
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Hi stargaze,
Voltage is not switchable in its stock form.
2-prong IEC.
Hi brj,
Good idea - I'll start a thread on the RWA forum
for those who have technical questions about what
is under the hood, mod potential, etc.
Thanks,
Vinnie
Hi Vinnie
Thanks for the reply
Is it possible to change the voltage by replacing the transformer. Any pictures you took on the power supply?
Thanks
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Very interesting thread . Depending on which thread or which forum you view discussions on this player, the
focus of talk goes in different directions.
Over on Audio Asylum (& there is another thread over here) there has been more talk about how the player
might be able to be modified then what the current capabilities of the stock player might be. I'm unfortunately
no longer in that "tax bracket" that I able to consider buying a $4k or better(after mods) player.
The only experience many people may have is with later generation Sony players where the solid tech of the 1st generation ES players was long abandoned for "more ergonomic friendly" consumer electronics yversions. I can remember being (somewhat surprised &) impressed which how good SCD-1 sounded when I first heard it.
not the equal of many of today's hi-end players , on a "rainy day" it could sound close enough to be an
insignificant amount of differences. Sony's ES offerings are technologically & philosophically of the same Company.
It seems a lot of people are very wary of what the DSD Remastering engine might be doing to their PCM
files. I have to mention a comment I find to be pretty funny. One person was worried about the PCM files
being artificially processed. The truth of the matter is "any" processing you do in the digital domain is
already "artificial". Is it going to be processed the same way PCM files are usually handled ,of course not.
It's no longer a PCM file. If you absolutely prefer the "characteristic sound" of PCM, (more pronounced leading
edge transients) you may not like the more analog transient response of a DSD file. For certain genres of music the more pronounced leading edge is not the correct response. As I've said no particular processing
is any more artificial than another. It's just a different way to get things back to analog with (hopefully) more
of the sound character we're looking for. All these points are moot of course as DSD Remastering is user
selectable. I have a feeling I may prefer a large portion of my Orchestral music Remastered. Large scale
dynamic acoustic music benefits greatly from a bit more "dryness" than some producers deemed necessary
to defeat some of the "air" that mask some of the stage positioning of instrument locations.
Yeah , this player sounds very interesting to me. A question for some users. How much bigger does the DSD
Remastering make the PCM files . In other words , if I chose to DSD Rm 1 of my ,typical dBPa rips that is about 730Mb in size , will it be 2gb or 3gb iin size, larger ?
Thanks, for all the discussion so far (a special thanks to Stercom who has really peaked my interest. I too was
a huge vinyl fan, but it's been years since I packed up my VPI table & the vinyl is all gone. I think my Metrum Hex DAC is terrific but if I can get a good price for it I will try to swing for the HAP)
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A question for some users. How much bigger does the DSD
Remastering make the PCM files . In other words , if I chose to DSD Rm 1 of my ,typical dBPa rips that is about 730Mb in size , will it be 2gb or 3gb iin size, larger ?
I do not have one of these players, but it's my understanding that the DSD remastering is done on the fly as you play a file. I don't think it actually saves a new version of the original file anywhere.
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It seems a lot of people are very wary of what the DSD Remastering engine might be doing to their PCM
files. I have to mention a comment I find to be pretty funny. One person was worried about the PCM files
being artificially processed. The truth of the matter is "any" processing you do in the digital domain is
already "artificial". Is it going to be processed the same way PCM files are usually handled ,of course not.
It's no longer a PCM file. If you absolutely prefer the "characteristic sound" of PCM, (more pronounced leading
edge transients) you may not like the more analog transient response of a DSD file. For certain genres of music the more pronounced leading edge is not the correct response. As I've said no particular processing
is any more artificial than another. It's just a different way to get things back to analog with (hopefully) more
of the sound character we're looking for. All these points are moot of course as DSD Remastering is user
selectable. I have a feeling I may prefer a large portion of my Orchestral music Remastered. Large scale
dynamic acoustic music benefits greatly from a bit more "dryness" than some producers deemed necessary
to defeat some of the "air" that mask some of the stage positioning of instrument locations.
so remember when you download a file its already in its native format - from hd tracks - native downloads - hirez downloads - a cd, etc to your computer or external hard drive
all the dsd remastering does is upsample the music file to dsd - but you have the option of leaving the remastering on or not - (It doesnt change the original quantity of the file)
files downloaded to the sony that are in dsd - obviously do not need the upsampling turned on
you have to experiment (if you want to) if a music file benefits from the upsampling or not - its totally and 100% up to you
its not the last component you will ever get - you know in the future there will come along something that you have to buy - we should all know this by now
so just take this component on its own terms - and you will enjoy it immensely
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Thanks, for all the discussion so far (a special thanks to Stercom who has really peaked my interest. I too was
a huge vinyl fan, but it's been years since I packed up my VPI table & the vinyl is all gone. I think my Metrum Hex DAC is terrific but if I can get a good price for it I will try to swing for the HAP)
steve in jersey - I owned a Metrum Octave DAC MK1. The Octave MK2 and the Hex are quite a step above what I owned. Just say'in please listen to the HAP-Z1ES in your system before selling the Hex!!
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You're right (as I also had an Octave for a while)'
I'll sit on making any moves for a while . It does sound nice being able to listen to DSD files (even if they were generated from PCM) Oh well.
Thanks for the concern. (The Hex is sounding exceptionally nice tonight playing back some of my Anthology of the RCO Live ,Vol. 6 recordings.)
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It says it can hold 1 TB in the internal drive. If my math is right, that is approx. 19,000 uncompressed songs (5 min long). Or in album terms 1900. Do I have that right? Since I only have about 500 disc, no way I would need to attach an external hard drive, the Sony can handle it alone.
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It says it can hold 1 TB in the internal drive. If my math is right, that is approx. 19,000 uncompressed songs (5 min long). Or in album terms 1900. Do I have that right? Since I only have about 500 disc, no way I would need to attach an external hard drive, the Sony can handle it alone.
Here is a handy chart about uncompressed music files sizes. The type of file matters but I'd say you are fine with the 1TB drive.
File Type MB of Storage per Minute of Music (stereo)
16-bit/44.1kHz 10MB
16-bit/48kHz 11MB
24-bit/48kHz 16.5MB
24-bit/96kHz 33MB
24-bit/192kHz 66MB
DXD 127MB
DSD64 42MB
DSD128 84MB
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Stercom,
I know this is off topic , but if you don't already have these box sets they contain some absolutely fabulous sounding recordings in them . They are must haves for the classical music lover
The Decca Sound Box Set
The Mecury Living Presence Box Set
The RCA Living Stereo Box Set
Rip all the discs to PC in WAV using dBPa & you have hours of Orchestral music recorded with tubed microphones & very different & more intimate hall perspective then you are likely to hear in most modern recordings. The mastering of all the sets is first rate ! (Ok, I'll tie this into the thread)
These sets should shine when played back on the HAP - Z1ES. The thing that floors me is these recording stand on their own as very good sounding , not as historical documents. Given their age I can't help but shake my head at many of the recordings !
There are discs in these sets that vinyl collectors pay hundreds of $$$ for. They sound pretty close to what they sounded like spinning on my VPI. ( I said close !?!)
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Stercom,
I know this is off topic , but if you don't already have these box sets they contain some absolutely fabulous sounding recordings in them . They are must haves for the classical music lover
The Decca Sound Box Set
The Mecury Living Presence Box Set
The RCA Living Stereo Box Set
Rip all the discs to PC in WAV using dBPa & you have hours of Orchestral music recorded with tubed microphones & very different & more intimate hall perspective then you are likely to hear in most modern recordings. The mastering of all the sets is first rate ! (Ok, I'll tie this into the thread)
These sets should shine when played back on the HAP - Z1ES. The thing that floors me is these recording stand on their own as very good sounding , not as historical documents. Given their age I can't help but shake my head at many of the recordings !
There are discs in these sets that vinyl collectors pay hundreds of $$$ for. They sound pretty close to what they sounded like spinning on my VPI. ( I said close !?!)
Ha, Ha. Oh yeah. Teb B was gracious enough to rip my SACDs for me and the Living Stereo sound especially good on the HAP-Z1ES. The 200G vinyl Living Stereo reissues are well......really, really good. :D
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Has anyone else taken note with the striking similarities of the upcoming PS Audio Directstream DAC and the Sony HAP-Z1ES? Both use a FPGA as a DSD DAC, both convert all music to DSD via this FPGA, and both upsample (granted the PS audio upsamples to 10X vs the Sony 2X but it is debatable if this is better). I used to own a bridge-enabled PWD MkII and liked the sonics/hated the bridge. Since the bridge is still effectively a beta product and will not be updated with their upcoming product, it would seem that Sony's HAP-Z1ES may end up being a better product for those of us who want to enjoy the music and not tinker. Further, as Sony's engineers created SACD, I would expect they would be in the ideal position to write software for the FPGA.
For those who must have a network streamer (not sure why you need this), I understand that the Sony is not an option. OTOH, the Sony takes a much simpler approach and uses a HD instead of network/wifi as a data source, and this probably has many design advantages (less complexity, less jitter?). I suspect once the HD is swapped out for a SSD, the Sony will get even better with respect to reliability and probably sonics.
While I too share some trepidation of Sony in light of their tepid and sometimes fickle support and utilization of their technologies, the HAP sounds like it could be a product that may keep up with products costing many times more (time will tell). Sony has the advantage of being a much bigger company than the little guys (PS audio for example) and can leverage it's economy of scale to produce a comparable product for much less $$$ - the PS audio product costs 3x as much because they are going to sell many times less and need to turn a profit. As the HAP Z1 is otherwise self contained, sony support is less of a concern for me. The only two concerns I have are that the firmware fails to be updated with changes to internet music databases for song identification (e.g. Gracenote) and fails to update their smartphone/tablet remote apps to keep step with operating system upgrades. Not sure this is enough of a potential problem to avoid purchasing one...
Curious what other peoples thoughts are on these topics? What have others compared the HAP to sonically as a source? I'm very curious how similar the HAP sounds to the upcoming PS Audio product.
Bob
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While I too share some trepidation of Sony in light of their tepid and sometimes fickle support and utilization of their technologies, the HAP sounds like it could be a product that may keep up with products costing many times more (time will tell). Sony has the advantage of being a much bigger company than the little guys (PS audio for example) and can leverage it's economy of scale to produce a comparable product for much less $$$ - the PS audio product costs 3x as much because they are going to sell many times less and need to turn a profit. As the HAP Z1 is otherwise self contained, sony support is less of a concern for me. The only two concerns I have are that the firmware fails to be updated with changes to internet music databases for song identification (e.g. Gracenote) and fails to update their smartphone/tablet remote apps to keep step with operating system upgrades. Not sure this is enough of a potential problem to avoid purchasing one...
Curious what other peoples thoughts are on these topics? What have others compared the HAP to sonically as a source? I'm very curious how similar the HAP sounds to the upcoming PS Audio product.
Bob
your trepidation with sony in general is valid - as i have owned a few players from them over the years - mainly sacd players - and was not that impressed sonically or in their technical support. I just dont feel the same this time with them. maybe because they have made something very friendly that answers my needs to enter into the digital download realm and because its gotten a lot of positive press and the fact that it sounds good - no matter what i throw at it. (again upsampling and dsee can be turned on or off at your discretion)
as far as the updating of firmware - although what you say is valid - i for one dont care at the moment - because everything works so seamlessly in the sony - there are no glitches that they even have to offer firmware at the moment . i might change my tune in the coming months - but for now all is well.
the unit sounds very good - its prob not the best digital device out there - but it sounds very good to me (very satisfying) and i have owned dacs and cd players over the years - from cambridge - arcam - bryston -wadia - ava - ps audio - audio alchemy (remember them) - oppo - shanling - marantz -ah tjoeb - sony - cyrus and i forget what else - (mainly pieces that range from $700 to $2500)
i guess with any component until you take the plunge and hear it in your system for at least 2 weeks - your just speculating
im not saying its the greatest sound i have ever heard from digital - but it more than satisfies (musically and less fuss) and is certainly the equal of many dacs and cd players that are in its price range.
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It has been my experience (& that's worth about the cost of half a cup of coffee) (day old coffee) Companies
take into consideration what the specific control functions in place do & will assign new functions access on existing controls that can be accessed with additional physical gestures on certain "buttons". It's written into
the firmware update. If this is insufficient, they will release new versions of the Apps (& of course explain to
you in the "prelude" of the firmware if a newer version of the App wil be needed before the firmware update
will start) (always read all the "stuff" before starting any firmware updates, anywhere !)
There are numerous ways to make sure your music is correctly "Tagged" before you load it into a player.
I don't download individual "songs" so I don't know what is available for ID purposes from these sites. What
free music tagging services are available online or how well they work I'm not really sure. dBPA has an
excellent (not free) program called "Perfect Tunes" that will access several different music ID databases
& then show the results so you can choose the ID that best matches what the music may be. I look at tagging
features inside of a player as a perk for something that could/should have been done before being loaded into
a "player". Who knows though , the Gracenote database function could be exceptional, but as I've mentioned
there's really no reason you should have to depend on it
As you said , minor concerns ! (so why does it take so long to compose a reply) (I have to learn how to type 1
of these days, & then get a real keyboard for this iPad). My brain could'nt actually be slower than my hand
could it ?
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Hello to all from a new member. I came across this forum while trying to solve a problem. I set up my player last evening and connected to my home wireless network, which uses an Airport Extreme. I began transferring about 7000 tracks with a wired connection to a macbook. Everything is transferring fine and the I played the DSD tracks included with the player,and a few that transferred. I am very pleased with the sound right out of the box. The information which accompanied the product leaves a lot to be desired, as does the online information. To me, it's sparse and somewhat confusing. My problem is with the remote app. I am unable to connect with my iPad air or my iPhone. I have tried deleting and re-downloading the app, and restarting the iPad, but no connection. I shows my player on the App with an IP address underneath which looks correct, but will not connect. I also turned off both "Standby" options in the Settings, because Sony's online Troubleshooting guide seems to say this can prevent a connection. I am wondering if the fact I am transferring files by a wired connection is the problem. I would appreciate any suggestions from anyone with respect to what could be tried. It seems you really need the app to do any kind of organizing or deleting of the files. I emailed sony support and will see if they have any suggestions. Thanks.
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Is the Sony connected to your home network . The iPad app "sees" the player on your network . In other words the connection between your iPad & the Sony is'nt like that of a normal remote control through an IR
on a unit. The connection is made through your local intranet.
The iPad APP scans your network for an address that Sony player will give it. An easy way to think of it is the
Sony has to stay connected to your network at all times. So here is a "flow chart"'
iPad > Network > Z1. (Or is your problem something else ? I did'nt see any mention of your network so I made a guess)
I'm not quite sure what the troubleshoot guide is talking about. Was this just a general guide or was it referenced specifically to the controller app setup ? Your network has to "see" your Z1 , I'm pretty sure if the Z1 is'nt on (or at least in standby mode)your network(which is your router)is not able to see the Z1. You can't
setup up something that's not there. You are not going to hurt anything if leave the player on to try to setup the app. PC off >Z1 on & connected to router, try it now. I'm assuming the player setup is done !
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It shows my player on the App with an IP address underneath which looks correct, but will not connect. I also turned off both "Standby" options in the Settings, because Sony's online Troubleshooting guide seems to say this can prevent a connection. I am wondering if the fact I am transferring files by a wired connection is the problem. I would appreciate any suggestions from anyone with respect to what could be tried.
I bet you are right about the wired connection being the problem. I transferred all my files via wired LAN cable directly from the router and after the transfer was completed started using my iPad to control the unit. I'm guessing it won't allow you to access the files while the transfer process is occurring since it needs to organize the drive and then access GraceNotes before it is finished. Since its showing your player in the App I doubt its your network. I would suggest letting the transfer process finish, disconnect the LAN cable, reboot the HAP-Z1ES and then try using the iPad/IPhone App again.
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I've owned the HAP-Z1ES for a couple of months now. The thing I like the most is not only the sound quality, but the ease of use and stability of the unit! It boots up almost instantaneously. I'm guessing the operating system resides on a SSD. People on other boards have indicated they swapped out the internal hard drive and the HAP-Z1ES copied over the operating system and even the hi-rez music samples that came with the unit. That indicates there is another source of internal storage - which is probably the SSD I'm referring to. Also, the iPad app runs over the network so I can literally be in another part of the house - turn the HAP-Z1ES on, select a song and have it playing by the time I sit down to listen. No big deal, but just shows how fast it boots up and how easy it is to use. I owned an Olive 4HD (which is basically the same thing as the HAP-Z1ES) but it took longer to boot, longer to find songs and just didn't seem as stable. The Olive would "crash" every so often and I would have to reboot. The Sony has never done that. (Disclaimer: I haven't used any of Olive's current music servers so they may be better). For songs I have multiple copies of, but are in different formats, I can jump easily between the DSD and FLAC versions, for example, of a song to compare sound quality. The hi-rez rips are obviously the best sounding but its fun to compare. Finally, I should mention the internet radio function. Like everything else, it worked the first time I tried it, it found a slew of stations, organized them by type of music and sounded excellent. I know all this functionality is available with other products but the HAP-Z1ES puts it all together "under one roof"...........and it actually works, is easy to use and sounds good!
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I've owned the HAP-Z1ES for a couple of months now. The thing I like the most is not only the sound quality, but the ease of use and stability of the unit! It boots up almost instantaneously. I'm guessing the operating system resides on a SSD. People on other boards have indicated they swapped out the internal hard drive and the HAP-Z1ES copied over the operating system and even the hi-rez music samples that came with the unit. That indicates there is another source of internal storage - which is probably the SSD I'm referring to. Also, the iPad app runs over the network so I can literally be in another part of the house - turn the HAP-Z1ES on, select a song and have it playing by the time I sit down to listen. No big deal, but just shows how fast it boots up and how easy it is to use. I owned an Olive 4HD (which is basically the same thing as the HAP-Z1ES) but it took longer to boot, longer to find songs and just didn't seem as stable. The Olive would "crash" every so often and I would have to reboot. The Sony has never done that. (Disclaimer: I haven't used any of Olive's current music servers so they may be better). For songs I have multiple copies of, but are in different formats, I can jump easily between the DSD and FLAC versions, for example, of a song to compare sound quality. The hi-rez rips are obviously the best sounding but its fun to compare. Finally, I should mention the internet radio function. Like everything else, it worked the first time I tried it, it found a slew of stations, organized them by type of music and sounded excellent. I know all this functionality is available with other products but the HAP-Z1ES puts it all together "under one roof"...........and it actually works, is easy to use and sounds good!
Stercom, I'll bet there are many people in the same boat as you. I myself have been down the path of separates, was an early adopter of Olive (Vinnie Rossi of Red Wine Audio -- one great guy -- modified my Olive Musica, putting in a larger hard drive and enabling it for battery operation), have gone the tube route, the vinyl route, tried esoteric cabling, etc. Don't get me wrong; I've had lots of fun along the way, half of which is doing the research (I love reading Six Moons and believe Srajan Ebaen is the poet laureate of audio reviewing) and coming upon interesting people, novel products, etc. But I am at a stage in my life where I want simplicity, ease of use (especially for my wife), and great sound. I don't want to muck around with computer audio, with software add-ons, expensive cabling, endless discussions of whether this or that computer can be a music server, etc. And I don't want multiple boxes in my living room, where my wife and I and our guests will listen to two-channel stereo. From what I have read from you, Smargo and others, this might be close to the Holy Grail. It has its own ecosystem, which may not be for everyone (Steve Jobs proved that some folks really do want a controlled, predictable experience), pristine sound from what I can gather, streaming Internet radio that actually sounds good and built-in storage that will suffice for what I need. And quite frankly, while it might not qualify as a bargain in some people's books, it's a steal considering lots of ultra-high end music servers that I have been looking at. I am a U.S. expat who has been living in France since 2011 and I will probably come home next year, at which point I will pull the trigger. Heck, I might even go for the matching integrated amp from Sony, which one reviewer actually said was the hidden gem of these two units, though trying to compare a music server and an integrated amp is kinda silly. I will continue to track this thread for information but I am 99 percent convinced this is the way to go for me and my wife, whose Luddite status won't be challenged by the Sony. :duh: Thanks for your postings, and that of others!
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Flinn, I for some reason had forgotten your mentioning the app listing your player & it
having an address underneath it. Did you try opening up the app before you had confirmation
the music transfer was completely done & your computer was done communicating w/ the
Z1.
My guess is your network is giving the app the player & address but nothing else because it
thinks the Z1 is still "busy" (which it may have been). The Z1 music transfer probably locks
out everything but the communication to where ever it is expecting the files to come from
until it thinks it has everything . Steven Stone mentions that this function takes a good deal of
time the initial time it is run.
I think the important thing may be that the computer that you used to do your transfer is'nt "live"
in the network loop when you try the app w/ the Z1 .
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I have about 400 tracks left to transfer as I type so I will know soon. I too suspect that is the problem. The transfer software works great. Over 6500 tracks have transferred without a hitch which is impressive. Thanks to everyone for the input. I will report back as soon as my transfer finishes. I am completely satisfied with the sound of the unit so far. I bought it to replace a Sony SCD-777ES which has been having some difficulty reading the SACD layer in hybrid discs, and the server already sounds every bit as good, and I won't have to deal with the glacial loading time of the 777ES anymore!
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I just picked my Sony up at the Post Office and will be setting it up later today. Since I am a computer dummy, is their a way to hook up a LAN cable to my Mac Mini for the transfer?
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Yes. There is a LAN port on the Sony. They include a short cable.
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I just picked my Sony up at the Post Office and will be setting it up later today. Since I am a computer dummy, is their a way to hook up a LAN cable to my Mac Mini for the transfer?
Tom,
I will be very interested in you comparisons between the Mac Mini and the Sony unit, I have been following a few of these Sony threads with great interest.
Greg
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I just picked my Sony up at the Post Office and will be setting it up later today. Since I am a computer dummy, is their a way to hook up a LAN cable to my Mac Mini for the transfer?
I think you need an Ethernet "crossover"
cable to directly connect from computer to
Z1ES.
That is what I did and it works and transfers
a little faster this way.
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Flinn,
I'm kind of surprised you are able to play music from the Z1 while the music is still be transferred (& wonder if it might be slowing down the process a bit). While the player obviously is able to do this, I don't know
that I'd ask the Z1 to "multitask"just yet.
While the Z1 is able to do so many things on the "fly"when it is in a completed operational state, it may not
work as efficiently before it is able to confirm "all it's ducks in a row"
The Sony has computer like functioning but only to a degree. When people are asked to multitask & conflicts
arise they decide what best to do based on logic. A component that is almost a PC may not react as "calmly".
it will ignore one request over another or get stuck in an operational loop (& we all "love" it when after countless minutes of twiddling our thumbs we realize what happened & have to reboot. Fortunately components don't react like this....that I'm aware of.)
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Vinnie,
Is this Ethernet crossover cable any different than the "Monster Cable" Ethernet cable that's been around
for awhile & that I'm using with my Auraliti PK 100 to my router ?
(I may take a ride over to just outside of Phila.,Pa to check out the Z1. I really have no complaints w/ my
Auraliti setup. It may be some of the best PCM I've heard (through my Metrum Hex DAC , but PCM needs
a great DAC to sound less like PCM) (I have to chuckle at people who talk about preserving the "native" bit
rate sound of their higher Rez PCM music files... DSD sounds closer to analog sound to me . I like analog.
Hi Rez PCM sounds like....well Hi Rez PCM to me. The "air" in DSD does'nt draw attention to itself on a consistent basis. It's not "air" you are hearing if you can hear it regardless of the amplitude of the notes being
played . "Air" is'nt naturally "excited" by softly played notes)
Sorry for the Soapbox rant, let me see if I can take that trip today.
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Hi Steve,
If you want a direct connection from
computer to Z1ES, you need an Ethernet
Crossover Cable. This is not something
that you connect to a router.
Or you can connect via standard Ethernet
cables via a router.
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Most later Macs including the Mac Mini have an Auto-MDIX Ethernet interface which automatically detects and switches so that either straight-through or crossover cables can be used.
Here is a list of Apple and Mac products that have Auto-MDIX:
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2274 (http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2274)
Most PCs in the last 10 years also have Auto-MDIX Ethernet, but of course there are exceptions.
Steve
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Steve
I did play music and it probably was not a good idea. In fact, I had the internet radio on during a good bit of the transfer. I suspect it did slow things down because my transfer took over 30 hours. I have stopped listening. My transfer is complete and the player has been "updating database" for the last couple of hours. I'm going to leave it alone and hope everything works out. I doubt I did the transfer in the best or quickest manner, but there's not much in the way of instructions included. By the way I spoke twice with Sony support and I don't think the persons I spoke with even understand what the HAP-Z1ES is or does.
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Hi Steve,
If you want a direct connection from
computer to Z1ES, you need an Ethernet
Crossover Cable. This is not something
that you connect to a router.
Or you can connect via standard Ethernet
cables via a router.
okay , in other words I can just disconnect the Ethernet cable that I have running from my Computer
to my router( I leave my Computer wired & use my wireless connection for my IPA) & just run the cable directly to the Z1 for the Music transfer as this program is embedded on the player ? (I'm being lazy instead of "Go ogling" Ethernet "Crossover" cable).
Is that the "gist" of things ? Then after the transfer I could remove the PC to Z1 Ethernet to the Original system config. & then use one of my "Monster Cable" Ethernets to connect the Z1 to the router or move the
cable running from the Computer > Z1 to Router > Z1 .There does'nt appear to be any reason to maintain the Computer to Z1 connection after the initial setup & music transfer. Additional music transfers should be no
problem handled over a wireless connection as the amount of files should'nt be that burdensome. While the Z1 to your router connection is necessary if you use a tablet to control the Z1.
Call me old fashioned ,but if I have a choice between keeping a Computer connection in my music system for the
convienence of occasional use & has no functional reason to be included to the system "it's outta there"
My trip to go check out a HAP - Z1ES did'nt happen today as I'm not feeling that great today ! Maybe someday
this week or next Saturday I'll go check one out !
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My bad there does appear to be specific differences between patch & crossover cables. (Sorry , to waste thread space over Computer accessory marketing NONSENSE)
Rather than check the wire color pattern sequence on the ends of the connectors ( nonsense), it would be nice
if they computer advisors could say this Category Ethernet cable is crossover & this Cat is not.
I'm guessing Cat. 6 is crossover but I'm not sure.
I'll have to take a ride over to Staples & play a friendly game of "Devil's Advocate" with a sales clerk to get the scoop on this.
If you are someone who embraces the influence of today's "Computer Culture " people are willing to endure small indignities to be part of that culture. The rest of us will always be considered as unworthy of anything
approaching a basic level of patience & respect because we have'nt kept pace with the cyber world learning
curve.
Hey even the dinosaurs may have had a higher level of respect,but they are extinct. ( like many of us today will soon be)
I'll try to stop wasting any more space today with non-audio related observations.
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I'm guessing Cat. 6 is crossover but I'm not sure.
Cat5, Cat5E and Cat6 progressively provide greater speed, bandwidth as well as reduced crosstalk and interference (via more twists per inch per twisted pair).
Cat5 100 megabit Ethernet up to 100MHz bandwidth
Cat5e 1 gigabit Ethernet up to 100MHz bandwidth
Cat6 10 gigabit Ethernet up to 250MHz bandwith
The Cat version does not indicate straight-through or crossover wiring. As I mentioned previously, the majority of modern computers have Auto-MDIX meaning you can use straight-through or crossover Cat cables between computers or computer to router, hub or switch provided one of the devices has Auto-MDIX ports.
Steve
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Thanks, for that.
So the Cat # only indicates speed capability , huh
So , Vinniie is a normal guy like the rest of us ! ( Does the Computer Culture Secret Information Society realize
you hand out this kind of useful information ?)
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Fortunately I was able to connect with remote app after my transfer finished. I did have to restart my router and the Sony, but it then connected. I suppose the better course is not to play tracks or try the remote app while the transfer is taking place. There are several tracks preloaded, including some DSD, which you can listen to before doing the transfer if you just want to hear the player out of the box. They also include a flash drive with some other tracks on it, and a link to discounts on some hi rez downloads. Now that I have completed my transfer, I see that there is also a tutorial on the flash drive on how to transfer tracks from a computer to the Sony.
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Glad to hear that things are finally up & running. What's that Old Saying "Good things come to he who waits"
but I bet there probably was'nt exciting new Tech Toys around to try out when they coined this saying !
Very cool ! Enjoy your player & let everyone know how things are coming along & in the process "pay the
tips" back to othets.
These forums work best as a community effort of positive advice, not " my system is better than yours because I spent more, so that makes me the expert"
Don't forget us. "We love you man" ! :thumb:
(Would have been nice if you knew the flash drive had a tutorial on it though!)
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Thanks again Steve. I'm going to read all the online information and will certainly report back after I'm familiar with everything.
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(Would have been nice if you knew the flash drive had a tutorial on it though!)
i know i have said this at least 3 or 4 times on this thread - but there is a learning curve - its not hard though
use the flash drive that comes with the sony - it tells you exactly how everything is done and it saves you from going aploplectic
or alternatively this is the link with the info that is exactly the same as the flash drive
http://docs.esupport.sony.com/homeav/Hi-Res_Audio/HAPZ1ES_guide/en/contents/TP0000221999.html - just explore the different links within it!
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Most later Macs including the Mac Mini have an Auto-MDIX Ethernet interface which automatically detects and switches so that either straight-through or crossover cables can be used.
Here is a list of Apple and Mac products that have Auto-MDIX:
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2274 (http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2274)
Most PCs in the last 10 years also have Auto-MDIX Ethernet, but of course there are exceptions.
Steve
Hi Steve,
Never knew they have that Auto-MDIX feature. I don't think it worked with my Macbook (about 4 years old - the last one they made with the black casing). So I just took the Ethernet cable Sony provided and switched the wiring to make a crossover cable. Definitely faster than wifi, but I didn't compare to the speed of a wired connection to the router because the router is not in a convenient location for that. I think the router does
the equivalent of the wire swapping that I did, but inside the router via IC's. Not sure if there is any noticeable loss from that.
I did play music and it probably was not a good idea. In fact, I had the internet radio on during a good bit of the transfer. I suspect it did slow things down because my transfer took over 30 hours. I have stopped listening. My transfer is complete and the player has been "updating database" for the last couple of hours.
Hi flinn,
I manually choose the music folders that I want to load in. There is so much on my computer library that I barely listen to, so I figure if I do later want to listen to those albums, I'll manually add them when I want them. I don't want too much clutter on this thing (famous last words!). Loading one album is quick. Loading hundreds of albums take a long time (over 24 hours is possible, so I've read... especially the Hi Res PCM and DSD's).
or alternatively this is the link with the info that is exactly the same as the flash drive
http://docs.esupport.sony.com/homeav/Hi-Res_Audio/HAPZ1ES_guide/en/contents/TP0000221999.html - just explore the different links within it!
Hi Smargo,
Thanks - I'll add that to my thead on the RWA forum... on the first post so it is there for reference. Overall, I find the player to be very intuitive
to use and it was also easy to connect via the Ethernet cable, and to the WiFi.
I suppose the better course is not to play tracks or try the remote app while the transfer is taking place.
I haven't run into problem when transferring music and playing music already loaded at the same time. It could be because I only transfer 10 or 20 albums at a time. Or perhaps it was a fluke when it failed? Has anyone else had this problem? Just curious if it is known issue.
So , Vinniie is a normal guy like the rest of us !
Yeah, just like you guys. I'm NORMAL. NORMAL I SAY!!!!!! :duh: :banghead: :cyclops: :dunno:
:green:
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I already have the app for my Itunes on my Ipad, will I need to download another app for the Sony-Ipad? :scratch:
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I already have the app for my Itunes on my Ipad, will I need to download another app for the Sony-Ipad? :scratch:
To access your music on the HAP-Z1ES you will need to use the App Sony designed for it. Its called HDD Audio (You simply download it to your Ipad or tablet)
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Vinnie
I agree that transferring a few files at time is the way to go. I wish I had done that. I transferred everything from the folder which stores my iTunes tracks and there are many duplicates where the track is in both an ACC and AIFF format. I now wish I had cleaned up 10 albums at a time and transferred them. I have to say though, that so far this player has vastly exceeded my expectations. I am really enjoying the ability to instantly access hundreds of hi rez tracks without having to load SACD's or fool with the menus on DVD-A's.
You obviously have a deep knowledge in this area (mine is limited which is probably pretty apparent by now) and I was wondering about the DSD remastering. If I am playing WAV 192 or 96.0kHZ/24 bit tracks should I turn the DSD remaster off, or just leave it on all the time?
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Vinnie
I agree that transferring a few files at time is the way to go. I wish I had done that. I transferred everything from the folder which stores my iTunes tracks and there are many duplicates where the track is in both an ACC and AIFF format. I now wish I had cleaned up 10 albums at a time and transferred them. I have to say though, that so far this player has vastly exceeded my expectations. I am really enjoying the ability to instantly access hundreds of hi rez tracks without having to load SACD's or fool with the menus on DVD-A's.
You obviously have a deep knowledge in this area (mine is limited which is probably pretty apparent by now) and I was wondering about the DSD remastering. If I am playing WAV 192 or 96.0kHZ/24 bit tracks should I turn the DSD remaster off, or just leave it on all the time?
really? - shouldn't you be the judge of whether to turn on/off the dsd remastering - thats like asking should i turn the light switch on before i go into a dark room
ugh!!!
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My apologies for intruding on your Sunday. I'm confused as to why someone would pay the premium for hi rez files if regular tracks can be "remastered" to DSD on this machine, and was trying to ask if you use that feature with non-DSD hi rez files. For the future, I'll "step down" to the Sony forum with any questions. Best of luck with your machine.
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My apologies for intruding on your Sunday. I'm confused as to why someone would pay the premium for hi rez files if regular tracks can be "remastered" to DSD on this machine, and was trying to ask if you use that feature with non-DSD hi rez files. For the future, I'll "step down" to the Sony forum with any questions. Best of luck with your machine.
there is nothing to apologize for and you are not intruding on my sunday - yes i and others are paying for '"remastering to dsd" from non dsd tracks but sometimes the track already sounds very good without the remastering on - when you put it on it doesnt mean that it will sound better
some tracks sound really good with the dsd remastering on (you - you - you - you - you -you - you decide) and some tracks that are not recorded in dsd - sound much better with the dsd remastering off - its not a one size fits all - but you - you - you - you - you - you - you - you can decide for yourself ( not vinny - me - stercom - ozark tom - srb - steve in jersey - stargazering - flashman - and everyone else that i didnt mention
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Vinnie
I agree that transferring a few files at time is the way to go. I wish I had done that. I transferred everything from the folder which stores my iTunes tracks and there are many duplicates where the track is in both an ACC and AIFF format. I now wish I had cleaned up 10 albums at a time and transferred them. I have to say though, that so far this player has vastly exceeded my expectations. I am really enjoying the ability to instantly access hundreds of hi rez tracks without having to load SACD's or fool with the menus on DVD-A's.
You obviously have a deep knowledge in this area (mine is limited which is probably pretty apparent by now) and I was wondering about the DSD remastering. If I am playing WAV 192 or 96.0kHZ/24 bit tracks should I turn the DSD remaster off, or just leave it on all the time?
Sound preferences between different formats , whether you've been listening for 1 week or 30 years, are just
that, preferences.
That's the beauty of having the choice to listen to the music files you've loaded in their native form or
see if you like the way the sound processed to a format with a different file structure.
If you are someone really interested in finding out what sounds best to you , you do yourself a great disservice
with the preconceived ratings of how the different formats are "better" or "worse" than each other. The more
sensible approach is with a clean slate open to what you're hearing at the time you're listening. Not "this
is the way, this sounds when I listen in this format, so this is sound is'nt right".
You will drive yourself to the never ending path of upgrading your equipment (I confess, I've been there too
long) when you seek information about what you should do. There is no one size fits all in this hobby, but
there are way too many "sacred cows" format superiority & if all Hi-Rez is actually that just because of file
size.
Relax , enjoy the music, have a drink, light up a doobie (scratch that last one & I'll plead "a" fifth if questioned
about saying that)
(Me ? I would try it both ways regardless of the native format ; No real need for it with actual DSD files but it's not going to hurt anything to try it anyway)
Alright, now I'm done with this posting, I think
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Relax , enjoy the music, have a drink, light up a doobie (scratch that last one & I'll plead "a" fifth if questioned
about saying that)
The last time a doobie smoker came to my house was 35 years ago. He listened to my system, got up and adjusted the equalizer, sat back down and said "aww, much better".
The only problem, my EQ was turned off. But I didn't tell him that.
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Tom,
That was you I visited ???
Things sound much better now that I've stopped using equalizers. ,Unfortunately everything else is much
blurrier.
"Those were...... The days my friend, we thought they'd never end" 8)
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Vinnie
You obviously have a deep knowledge in this area (mine is limited which is probably pretty apparent by now) and I was wondering about the DSD remastering. If I am playing WAV 192 or 96.0kHZ/24 bit tracks should I turn the DSD remaster off, or just leave it on all the time?
Hi flinn,
As others have mentioned, you can play wiht the DSD Remastering engine and see if you prefer it ON or OFF. In some cases, you probably will prefer one to the other. That is the one that sounds better.
I'll "step down" to the Sony forum with any questions. Best of luck with your machine.
No need to step down and go to another forum, and don't feel like you don't belong here because you are new to this or new here. We are all learning and learn from each other here. There is no expert or leader. I'm learning. You are learning. AudioCircle is great place to be!
I'm confused as to why someone would pay the premium for hi rez files if regular tracks can be "remastered" to DSD on this machine, and was trying to ask if you use that feature with non-DSD hi rez files.
The DSD remastering engine converts the PCM stream into a DSD stream. A PCM stream is usually a 16-bit or 24-bit stream, sampled at 44.1kHz, 48k, 88.2k, 96k, 176.4k, 192k, and even 384k. A DSD stream is 1-bit, but at much higher sampling rate (2.8MHz, 5.6MHz). The d/a converter chips in the Sony player accept both PCM and native DSD streams, but they handle PCM and DSD a little differently in the actual digital to analog conversion process, so the results will probably sound a little different.
BUT - if you start with a Redbook 16/44.1 file and enable the DSD remastering, you will not gain "information" (resolution) by having the Sony convert to the DSD stream. After an album has been recorded and transferred into a playback file, you can't add "more better" sound into it unless you go back to the original master and do a true remastering, which is usually done at the studio. :wink:
Just like if you start out with a compressed MP3 file and convert it to a Redbook file, it still is a compressed MP3 file "riding on a redbook file format." Once you 'lossy compress' a file and data is lost, it is lost forever on that file.
I'm not sure this is the clearest explanation and others probably can elaborate, but I hope you get the idea. Feel free to ask questions, learn, and post your experiences to the group.
Vinnie
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Tom,
That was you I visited ???
Things sound much better now that I've stopped using equalizers. ,Unfortunately everything else is much
blurrier.
"Those were...... The days my friend, we thought they'd never end" 8)
Well it sure wasn't me, unless you passed one over to me when I was still in diapers! :lol: :smoke:
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BUT - if you start with a Redbook 16/44.1 file and enable the DSD remastering, you will not gain "information" (resolution) by having the Sony convert to the DSD stream. After an album has been recorded and transferred into a playback file, you can't add "more better" sound into it unless you go back to the original master and do a true remastering, which is usually done at the studio. :wink:
Just like if you start out with a compressed MP3 file and convert it to a Redbook file, it still is a compressed MP3 file "riding on a redbook file format." Once you 'lossy compress' a file and data is lost, it is lost forever on that file.
Vinnie
So Vinnie, you cannot up-sample 10x and play back 2x and get more info out of a CD like PS Audio is claiming?
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So Vinnie, you cannot up-sample 10x and play back 2x and get more info out of a CD like PS Audio is claiming?
(I'm back to sanity ,once again) The thing that has to be remembered is DSD does'nt "work" by the same
principals . The objective is not to create "better" sounding PCM files. It's about formatting those "native"
files to something else, to see if the reformatting to a format with some different basic sound characteristics
will affect a different sound perspective that may or may not sound better to "you"
The thing is , is that we are so used to the way formats we listen to "sound", we are listening for those traits
subconsciously & may want to dismiss differences as either not an improvement or barely noticeable.
That's fine, that is why the feature is a defeatable choice. You don't necessarily need "more information" for
something to sound "better" . Sometimes different is better, sometimes not, but I think you have to be
willing to spend extended amounts of time listening to things in one mode or the other before you can
categorically state what the process can or can't do . It make take a few weeks to decide , it may not
A/B testing does'nt really work in this (or many other situations). Our " Aural Memory" is just too short & what
we listen to consecutively overpowers that memory with the immediacy of what we are now hearing.
You don't necessarily need to have a producer's creditials. Sound perspective is'nt something you're " locked"
into.
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(I'm back to sanity ,once again) The thing that has to be remembered is DSD does'nt "work" by the same
principals . The objective is not to create "better" sounding PCM files. It's about formatting those "native"
files to something else, to see if the reformatting to a format with some different basic sound characteristics
will affect a different sound perspective that may or may not sound better to "you"
The thing is , is that we are so used to the way formats we listen to "sound", we are listening for those traits
subconsciously & may want to dismiss differences as either not an improvement or barely noticeable.
That's fine, that is why the feature is a defeatable choice. You don't necessarily need "more information" for
something to sound "better" . Sometimes different is better, sometimes not, but I think you have to be
willing to spend extended amounts of time listening to things in one mode or the other before you can
categorically state what the process can or can't do . It make take a few weeks to decide , it may not
A/B testing does'nt really work in this (or many other situations). Our " Aural Memory" is just too short & what
we listen to consecutively overpowers that memory with the immediacy of what we are now hearing.
You don't necessarily need to have a producer's creditials. Sound perspective is'nt something you're " locked"
into.
very well put steve - you said it perfectly !!!
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So Vinnie, you cannot up-sample 10x and play back 2x and get more info out of a CD like PS Audio is claiming?
My point was (and I probably wasn't clear when I was typing last night after a long day) is that if you have a Redbook CD file, you
can upsample, convert to DSD, or whatever but the "resolution" is still that of Redbook. It doesn't gain the resolution of something like
a native 24/176.4 just because you zero-pad it to 24-bit and upsample to 176.4k. Same with converting to DSD.
BUT - you might like the way it sounds better when it is played back as a DSD file - again, because of the way the d/a converts the DSD stream to analog compared to the way it handles PCM.
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I don't know how much more "resolution" you ever really gain when you "Upsample" or "Oversample". Yeah, you are
adding "more information" but it seems to ride above the music not further into it !
I don't believe double DSD sampled & up sampling are the same thing .I think this is a matter of people
lumping all Redbook together as the "Underachieving Stepsister" of higher bit/sampled PCM.
I have a pretty decent amt. of nice sounding Redbook that I am not tempted to Upsample . I would like to hear what kind of differences DSD remastering would bring to the table.
I see "Resolution" as a way over used term that many feel you can reach by playing the higher numbers game.
I have'nt found that to be necessarily true.
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I don't know how much more "resolution" you ever really gain when you "Upsample" or "Oversample". Yeah, you are
adding "more information" but it seems to ride above the music not further into it !
I don't believe double DSD sampled & up sampling are the same thing .I think this is a matter of people
lumping all Redbook together as the "Underachieving Stepsister" of higher bit/sampled PCM.
I have a pretty decent amt. of nice sounding Redbook that I am not tempted to Upsample . I would like to hear what kind of differences DSD remastering would bring to the table.
I see "Resolution" as a way over used term that many feel you can reach by playing the higher numbers game.
I have'nt found that to be necessarily true.
My point is that you do NOT gain any resolution beyond what is already on the disc or in the music file from upsampling or converting to DSD.
It might sound different. It might sound better to you, but you are not adding resolution that was not already on the disc or music file.
Converting from Redbook CD to high res PCM or DSD allows the Redbook file to "take a ride on the high res PCM or DSD formatting" and be decoded as such, but you are NOT adding real information that something like a natively recorded high res PCM or DSD file (where the analog was originally A to D converted at these higher rates) has.
I hope that makes sense.
Vinnie
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I don't know , if it sounds better to me it may be because what I've heard may have appeared to be more resolved. So for "me" it would be
I know I'm being a "Capadoste" (Italian word for hard head that I probably misspelled)here, I.just wish they decided to use a different term then Resolution after the file size description. I think if an abbreviation for
possible (pos) were used in front of it I'd be just fine
Oh what I was saying about about upsampling is that it just sounds like an additional layer of artifacts has been added that seem to do little else then "ride above" the actual signal . In this case for myself it appears to lower the amount of
Resolution by increasing the amount of NON musical information. Unless the Sony
engineers lied about the Remastering process double DSD sampled is not the
same
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Hi Steve,
Ok - just to make sure you know what I am saying:
I'm not saying it wouldn't sound better. It certainly could sound better. It could sound more resolved, more this and more that. Not doubting that at all. I'm just saying that there is no more musical data added. The file is just either being padded with extra 0-bits, bumped up to a higher sampling rate carrier, both, or converted over to a DSD stream. The way the d/a conversion handles it may very well end up resulting in a more pleasing sound, or not. I'm glad Sony decided to make this a feature you can turn ON or OFF. You don't have to "remaster to DSD" - but you could and I would encourage everyone with this player to try it a few times and have fun with it.
I know I'm being a "Capadoste" (Italian word for hard head that I probably misspelled)here,
Capadosta! Or "testa dura"! With a name like Vinnie, I should know this. :green:
I.just wish they decided to use a different term then Resolution after the file size description. I think if an abbreviation for
possible (pos) were used in front of it I'd be just fine
I hear you - it's all in the lingo and marketing I guess.
I just didn't want some people reading this thread to be confused into thinking that by enabling the DSD remastering (or using the DirectStream product), it would make something like a Redbook CD sound identical or be a bit-for-bit clone of the real SACD file that came from an A to D in the studio that originally converted the analog to DSD.
Maybe it would make it sound more like it in some cases, but if the SACD's DSD data came from the A/D converter in the studio that converted it off the master, then that will have more musical information on it compared to just taking a Redbook CD and then converted to a DSD stream. The files sizes could even be the same, but they will not be identical in the content of those bits.
It's like buying a 2 liter bottle of Coke that came from Coke, vs. one that your poured half of it out and replaced it with water. They both will be 2 liter bottles, but one is missing some "resolution" in that your taste buds will not be stimulated the same way. Not sure this is a perfect analogy, but gives you the idea of what I am saying.
Again, once a file is in Redbook CD form (which is compressed if it originally was a native DSD file, or if it was originally A to D converted to 24/192k or some higher res than 16/44.1), then even if you later upsample or convert the Redbook to DSD, you will not get back what was taken out when you compressed it down to 16/44.1. Same is true when you take a CD and rip to MP3. You can't get back what you took out. If you want to get the original again, you need to go back to the file before it was compressed.
I'm sure the terminology might make this harder to understand than what it is. So I hope my Coke analogy helps. I'm only trying to help because there seems to be some confusion what the DSD remastering really is and is not.
I think I probably beat this dead horse long enough, being the capadosta that I am! :lol:
:deadhorse:
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Benne, Vinnie.... Benne (Did I get this one right ?)
Let me stop before I start talking about my Uncle Vitto, who appeared to have no neck !!!... Or Aunt Rose who would twist your cheek between her thumb & forefinger ( that would sting for a good minute afterwards)
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On a serious note ; How great would it have been if they had put DVD/CD RW drive in this thing that would
allow you to rip your SACDs right into storage. Seeing as how they decided to make this a "closed" system with no Digital out & no way to digitally clone SACDs. This could have been a doable feature.
As it stands, it's another one of those "if only"wishes. I honestly think that there are executives who may
not stay abreast of what some of their new tech is able to do.
They're not taking any chances that someone might be able to clone SACDs & there goes that royalty fee.
that the record companies are paying to Sony (.& there is still a reason to make & sell SACD players)
Man , don't you hate it when you identify the reasons to burst your own bubble.
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I'm curious about the internet radio function. Are there only preset stations or can you add your own url's? If preset is there a good selection of stations? Thanks.
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I've used SONOS, Squeezebox and, of course iTunes, and the Sony is by far the best Internet radio tuner I've used. The sound is better due in large part to the DSEE circuit. Also you can search by region as well as genre. I was able to quickly populate the "favorites" with the stations I usually listen to, as well as finding some new 320 kbps stations.
Steven in jersey wrote - "How great would it have been if they had put DVD/CD RW drive in this thing that would
allow you to rip your SACDs right into storage"
IMHO that would run counter to the whole idea behind the HAP - easy centralized workflow - with the HAP app, which will transfer any new music from as many libraries as you have in your home network AUTOMATICALLY, why would you need to add a second ripping center, one that would only add the disc to the HAP?
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Thanks for the info Steven.
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IMHO that would run counter to the whole idea behind the HAP - easy centralized workflow - with the HAP app, which will transfer any new music from as many libraries as you have in your home network AUTOMATICALLY, why would you need to add a second ripping center, one that would only add the disc to the HAP?
[/quote]
Well, I'll start with your question first .
There is currently no "traditional" means to rip the DSD layer off of an SACD other than the "back door" method (championed by Ted B & others) of using PS3 made before Sony changed the firmware to close off
the backdoor access to make it possible to bring the DSD stream to a PC.
I could also ask "why do you need to run multiple libraries" . I don't have separate libraries . I use only
one that contains only uncompressed lossless files in it. As far as downloads I will have no need to have them
automatically added to storage. I can add them before I go to sleep.
The appeal of this player is'nt necessarily the same for everyone for the fact that listening habits are'nt "universal" of course YMMV.....IMDBJAVHO (In My Different But Just As Valid Humble Opinion)
(Boy, that does'nt sound too humble, does it ?) All right I'll revise it to IMKOFUO (the censors would'nt like
this one , so you might have to Wikkipedia it, but we all know how accurate they are)
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Wondering about the requirement of the Gracenotes access with this player.
Why is this required? Wouldn't the files to be imported already be tagged by the software used to rip the files in the first place (or properly tagged by the vendor in the case of a purchased download)?
Am I missing something?
Cheers,
Dave
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Wondering about the requirement of the Gracenotes access with this player.
Why is this required? Wouldn't the files to be imported already be tagged by the software used to rip the files in the first place (or properly tagged by the vendor in the case of a purchased download)?
Am I missing something?
Cheers,
Dave
Yes, it appears it is !
If you take a look at one of the HAP - ZIES, one of the captions is the HAP Music transfer takes a long time
if you read this page it talks about the music "needing" to registered. It took me a second to realize what they
were referring to. The music is registered so that the Gracenote database can then be accessed to find the right Tag for the file as it goes into storage.
A lot of people use iTunes to rip their CDs & they may have downloaded music they may never had the foresight to think they might put it on a home player that could display cover art so they may not have
bothered to download a cover.
I think I may have posed this same question about Gracenote necessity in an earlier posting in this thread . I think I may have gone as far to ask who puts their music in a player before it's been Tagged. I don't think I received much of a response ,if any so there might be a lot of people who welcome this feature.
I use dBPa for my rips, besides giving me exceptional rips it does just as well tagging just about everything I
decide to rip. Before you start a rip it accesses several CD album art databases & if if cover does'nt automatically show up in the box you may be able to choose it from the cover choices that were found &
placed on the choose art page. There is no chance that I will be getting a Mac PC until there is dBPa support.
I look at CD Ripper as a Rolls Royce in a sea of Studebaker rippers.
Yes, it looks like we're stuck with Gracenote, my friend !
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Well, finally got my iPad to synch with my hap, but one issue still. I cannot get the mute or volume to work on the iPad. HELP!
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Well, finally got my iPad to synch with my hap, but one issue still. I cannot get the mute or volume to work on the iPad. HELP!
OZT,
Are you using the IR Blaster and aiming it at your preamp/ integrated amp?
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I am trying to use the app on the IPad.
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I am trying to use the app on the IPad.
But I assume you have the IR Blaster plugged in and aimed at your preamp/integrated's IR receiver?
Because you need to do that if you want to be able to use the Sony's remote control or iPad app to control volume.
There is NO volume control in the Sony. It needs to learn the IR command of your external amp and then when you plug
in the IR baster and aim it near the IR sensor of your preamp, you can control the volume via the app (or Sony remote).
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Guess I am out of luck? I use a Job 225 amp with no pre.
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Guess I am out of luck? I use a Job 225 amp with no pre.
The HAP-Z1ES can be modded with a built-in volume control :thumb:
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The HAP-Z1ES can be modded with a built-in volume control :thumb:
And remote? Sign me up. :D
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And remote? Sign me up. :D
It would use the Sony's remote that comes with it (and the App). But we're on the wrong thread to be discussing this, so
come over to the dark side :shh:
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A couple of questions for you owners out there.
Can you turn off the display led ? If you are using a tablet control there is no real reason for the player's display to be on & supposedly display leds adds some "noise" to the circuit when they're on.
Damn, I forgot my other question it had something to do with playback control.
(Could'nt have been that earth shattering, I guess)
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Can you turn off the display led ?
Yes, ??? setting at the first page. I always keep the display off.
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I don't know how long many of you have been involved with audio equipment. So those of you have been at
this for a while can take this advice w/ a grain of salt.
If you are serious about getting the best SQ results it's best to disregard Sony's suggestions about power
saving & just leave the player on w/ the display turned off. The display will turn on & show whatever function
is being accessed & go back off once the step is in progress. You don't honestly stare at a players display once
music has starting playing the whole time it's playing (if you have some friends over & you want to show off
your "cool" new toy fine. After they see it turn it back off)
The power draw from source components is negligible. DACs sound better when you leave them turned on.
This player uses an internal DAC. An easy formula to use is leave anything that is digital on. Turn off the components that are analog.
If you are really that worried about power use, use a few lower watt light bulbs through the house .
What you gain in playback SQ should be high enough to outweigh any Utility bill increase if you leave
just your digital components on.
With dimmer lighting you might not be as inclined to check out what you're eating from the takeout food
place no one else seems to go to. The price is right though & you can buy more audio stuff sooner, if you
don't make too many trips to the "Emergency Room" :duh:
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Hi all. Thread drift will happen, but please try to stay focused on the actual product being discussed in order to keep the value of this review thread as high as when it started. Not that the other topics that have come up aren't valuable or interesting in their own right, but there are entire circles on AC devoted to these related, but general topics, including ripping, hi-res formats, etc.. Thanks!
It would use the Sony's remote that comes with it (and the App). But we're on the wrong thread to be discussing this, so come over to the dark side :shh:
Thanks for your discretion and understanding, Vinnie! :thumb:
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This thread strikes me as being considerably more positive about the HAP-Z1ES than negative; however, comments that I've seen elsewhere have been more mixed. In fact, the six consumer reviews that I've just read on Amazon definitely give me pause. I'd be very interested to know if anyone here who has hands-on experience with the Sony has read the Amazon reviews, particularly the user review by a gentleman named Sridhar Mahadevan. And if anyone has, what is your take on that review? Is the app software as bad as Sridhar indicates? And if it is, how can it be that most other reviewers (on Amazon and elsewhere including here) have so little to say about the software? It seems to me that over time what will separate the men from the boys in computer audio will be software, not hardware. Having read so little about how the app software actually functions, I guess I am skeptical about this Sony product ... even though I very much want to want it because I am definitely in the target market that Sony has in mind, namely, one of those who wants the enjoyment of computer audio without all the brain surgery that so often accompanies it.
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This thread strikes me as being considerably more positive about the HAP-Z1ES than negative; however, comments that I've seen elsewhere have been more mixed. In fact, the six consumer reviews that I've just read on Amazon definitely give me pause. I'd be very interested to know if anyone here who has hands-on experience with the Sony has read the Amazon reviews, particularly the user review by a gentleman named Sridhar Mahadevan. And if anyone has, what is your take on that review? Is the app software as bad as Sridhar indicates? And if it is, how can it be that most other reviewers (on Amazon and elsewhere including here) have so little to say about the software? It seems to me that over time what will separate the men from the boys in computer audio will be software, not hardware. Having read so little about how the app software actually functions, I guess I am skeptical about this Sony product ... even though I very much want to want it because I am definitely in the target market that Sony has in mind, namely, one of those who wants the enjoyment of computer audio without all the brain surgery that so often accompanies it.
Amazon comments may be helpful but if you want professional reviews then look what Absolute Sound, What Hi-Fi? and Positive Feedback Online have written. The general conscience is Sony's app software is very good.
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This thread strikes me as being considerably more positive about the HAP-Z1ES than negative; however, comments that I've seen elsewhere have been more mixed. In fact, the six consumer reviews that I've just read on Amazon definitely give me pause. I'd be very interested to know if anyone here who has hands-on experience with the Sony has read the Amazon reviews, particularly the user review by a gentleman named Sridhar Mahadevan. And if anyone has, what is your take on that review? Is the app software as bad as Sridhar indicates? And if it is, how can it be that most other reviewers (on Amazon and elsewhere including here) have so little to say about the software? It seems to me that over time what will separate the men from the boys in computer audio will be software, not hardware. Having read so little about how the app software actually functions, I guess I am skeptical about this Sony product ... even though I very much want to want it because I am definitely in the target market that Sony has in mind, namely, one of those who wants the enjoyment of computer audio without all the brain surgery that so often accompanies it.
The sound is amazing and I find the software fairly easy to use since I am a computer dummy. My wife can now use my stereo to listen to. :thumb:
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I love this unit, and I have to say that the software, and especially phone remote software is the best interface that I have used on a streaming system to-date, no question.
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I love this unit, and I have to say that the software, and especially phone remote software is the best interface that I have used on a streaming system to-date, no question.
+1
I'm not sure where that guy on amazon was coming from (maybe an older version of the SW that was not as smooth as the current rev?).
The unit is super easy and smooth to use and to load files to. The App is also a simple, clean interface that is responsive.
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This thread strikes me as being considerably more positive about the HAP-Z1ES than negative; however, comments that I've seen elsewhere have been more mixed. In fact, the six consumer reviews that I've just read on Amazon definitely give me pause. I'd be very interested to know if anyone here who has hands-on experience with the Sony has read the Amazon reviews, particularly the user review by a gentleman named Sridhar Mahadevan. And if anyone has, what is your take on that review? Is the app software as bad as Sridhar indicates? And if it is, how can it be that most other reviewers (on Amazon and elsewhere including here) have so little to say about the software? It seems to me that over time what will separate the men from the boys in computer audio will be software, not hardware. Having read so little about how the app software actually functions, I guess I am skeptical about this Sony product ... even though I very much want to want it because I am definitely in the target market that Sony has in mind, namely, one of those who wants the enjoyment of computer audio without all the brain surgery that so often accompanies it.
You have to take into account where it was that you read these reviews. I would'nt come to the Audiocircle to
see how they felt about toasters.
I personally don't place too much importance on what I might have read in a customer's feedback section as I have no way of knowing how much experience the author has with tech Not to assume that some persons may not be totally honest of their claim they have some experience with like items, you really have no assurance they actually do. They may be further behind the learning curve than you are.
The only way I'm able to judge how much "Tech IQ" someone has is to see how much I can relate to when
they talk about general audio equipment issues on a forum geared toward the use of similar equipment.
While this Sony player has many similarities to. Computer Audio it is'nt tied to the same restrictions as it a
brand new technology unto itself. Sony designed this player so that most persons w/ basic PC skills will have very little problem setting the player up if they can follow the guides directions. If you can use a laptop & a
tablet you have about 95%'of the Computer skill you need to use this player.
Computer Audio is'nt the "End All" for Audio just yet. In this case it's just an additional application that works
in conjunction with this Audio Component.
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Is the app software as bad as Sridhar indicates? And if it is, how can it be that most other reviewers (on Amazon and elsewhere including here) have so little to say about the software? It seems to me that over time what will separate the men from the boys in computer audio will be software, not hardware. Having read so little about how the app software actually functions, I guess I am skeptical about this Sony product ... even though I very much want to want it because I am definitely in the target market that Sony has in mind, namely, one of those who wants the enjoyment of computer audio without all the brain surgery that so often accompanies it.
Really?? - this is one of the most seamless apps i can think of - the software app is incredible!!! - no glitches whatsoever
am downloading music strictly wireless - if anything the app is the best part of the sony
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H E L P. purchase one of the first units.uk summary took over a week to load 2500 cds with the addition of hard drive added. it took nearly 2 days to put 45000 tracks to its own data base,it counted down to ero ,bur the scrolling buffering sign was still rotating. THEN tried to use ipad/sony phone/Samsung tablet to control music stored . didn't work correctly , lots of meta data missing/sluggish/stopping etc. controlling from front panel was a nightmare too.did rescan of both drive message said successful /1 day . tried to contact support so many times with out any help at all. at that stage returned unit for refund.
still want to go to a hard drive solution./dsd too. so I really want to purchase the unit again asap.
since reading on line manual etc ,IT SAYS the unit only supports 20000 files ,there fore it contradicts the spec because it says you can add the hard drive to increase storage. assuming 15 tacks per album it means that the sony can only have abut 1000 cds of storage, which nowadays is not a lot. who has got the HAPZIES WORKING WITH ALOT OF ALBUMS STORED AND CONTROLLED FROM THE APP/IPAD ETC. PLEASE help allan
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Thanks to Stercom, OzarkTom, bk12, Vinnie, Steve, and Smargo for all of your observations which I very much value.
You have to take into account where it was that you read these reviews. I would'nt come to the Audiocircle to see how they felt about toasters.
Generally speaking, I agree with the comment by Steve that I've quoted here. However, in this case I hasten to point out that the Amazon customer whose review most concerned me did describe having very serious high end audio equipment as well as a music collection considerably larger than what I suspect 95% of audiophiles even have. That's why his review really caught my attention, as well as it's length which struck me as indicative of someone who really took some time. Anyway, unless the fellow was lying through his teeth, which I realize is always possible anywhere on the net, I figured I was reading something written by someone who wasn't just an Amazon toaster shopper.
But in any event, isn't it better on these forums to discuss the substance of what people have to say as opposed to attacking the people themselves?
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Does anyone know if the Sony software will allow "shuffle" play (ie select and play files in random order)?
Also, does Sony have available a Mac OS application that will run on a notebook in addition to the iOS devices?
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Does anyone know if the Sony software will allow "shuffle" play (ie select and play files in random order)?
Also, does Sony have available a Mac OS application that will run on a notebook in addition to the iOS devices?
This is from the Sony HAP-Z1ES help guide. http://helpguide.sony.net/ha/hapz1es/v1/en/contents/TP0000221981.html
"Shuffle:
You can play tracks in random order (shuffle play). You can select a setting from [Off], [Tracks], [Albums]. If you select [Albums], the order of the albums will be shuffled but the order of the tracks in each album will not.
Repeat:
You can play tracks repeatedly (repeat play). You can select a setting from [Off], [1 Track], [All tracks].
Favorite:
You can add to tracks you like. You can also remove or add to track."
I don't think the Sony HDD Audio software is available as a Mac OS app for computers The transfer software is, obviously.
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Thanks to Stercom, OzarkTom, bk12, Vinnie, Steve, and Smargo for all of your observations which I very much value.
Generally speaking, I agree with the comment by Steve that I've quoted here. However, in this case I hasten to point out that the Amazon customer whose review most concerned me did describe having very serious high end audio equipment as well as a music collection considerably larger than what I suspect 95% of audiophiles even have. That's why his review really caught my attention, as well as it's length which struck me as indicative of someone who really took some time. Anyway, unless the fellow was lying through his teeth, which I realize is always possible anywhere on the net, I figured I was reading something written by someone who wasn't just an Amazon toaster shopper.
But in any event, isn't it better on these forums to discuss the substance of what people have to say as opposed to attacking the people themselves?
The comment I made about Toaster shopping was a very random ,spur of the moment example that certainly was'nt intended to be taken "literally" & assigned to any particular person.
Comprende.??? (Yup, that was very weak & random analogy to use)
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No matter which thread you happen to view, it appears a number of early adopters are experiencing the same
type of problems . The problem is stemming from how to fit a music library that exceeds the 1TB of storage
space onto the Z1ES. The bigger problem is that Sony is not stressing strongly enough how the intended
architecture of adding an external drive to the player works. Simply put, the when the player runs out of
internal storage space it then looks for additional storage space .
I'm guessing that the player is having trouble finding whatever Id marking that the player puts on the files as it registers them before storing them. If the files are already on the drive the files skipped the registration
process. This is similar to you walking into a Gov. Office of some sort & walking up to the counter without
going through the waiting line. We all know how well that works out (hopefully, after going to the back of the
line, we make back to the front & are able to conduct our business)
I'm taking a lot for granted that this is the mistake being made ,as the upset posters are'nt describing
the step by step setup procedures they attempted . Sony dropped the ball when it came to making sure
everyone understands that this is a New Technology Digital Player & not a typical Computer Audio Music Player
& to compound problems Tech Support (other than these threads) is scarce as a lot of the sellers may not have any more knowledge of the product than the buyers
I almost forgot to describe a possible way to avert problems. What you want to do it is to attach, a large enough to handle your current library & possibly any expected increases, empty drive to the player before starting the music transfer program (that you've downloaded from Sony to the Computer you're using to transfer the music from). If you have your music files on ext drives they have to be reconnected to your Computer for the music transfer. If you have a really huge library , you're probably better off moving portions
of it to another drive & transfer it a bit at a time or do it all at once ,but be aware it takes tiiiiiiiiime (you get
the picture. Just remember the computer is the "hub" for the transfer & to put a big enough empty drive
(Up to 11TB someone said) to the player. I would not even attempt to try setting up the "HDD Remote App"
until you've received confirmation on your computer that the initial music transfer is done. (You really can't
use it to this point any way . The player not setup until you get confirmation that the music transfer is done)
Sorry to be long winded. Better luck this time.
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just wanted to say that i discovered - the radio stations on the sony hap-z1es - there are literally hundreds to choose from all over the world
right now im listening to "Audiophile Jazz" its under genre "jazz" - then "high quality" then "audiophile stream network" from the county greece at 320kbps
listening to "lover man" by sonny rollins
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just wanted to say that i discovered - the radio stations on the sony hap-z1es - there are literally hundreds to choose from all over the world
right now im listening to "Audiophile Jazz" its under genre "jazz" - then "high quality" then "audiophile stream network" from the county greece at 320kbps
listening to "lover man" by sonny rollins
:thumb:
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Im listening to all kinds of jazz from italy to spain to the netherlands to the university of alabama - to germany - to australia - to tunisia - to canada - to tehran
to north carolina central university - to jackson state university - to dayton ohio - to augusta georgia - to puerto rico - to the united kingdom - to russia - to france - to ukraine - to poland - to austria - to amsterdam
to belgium - to montana - to new zealand - to boise state university - to brazil - to uruguay - to greece - to oregon - to india
and it goes on and on and on - my head is spinning with all the new stuff to listen to - rmember this is just jazz
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Since you guys are enjoying the Internet Radio sections on your HAPs & if it allows to do station searches by
genre or location, I would suggest input any of the Scandanavian countries, United Kingdom or Russia as places to check for higher bitrate feeds
Have any of you been able to find any stations w/ higher than. a 320kbps feed rate. Some time ago I would occasionally be able to get a feed rate that was close to compressed lossless rate from one of the BBC stations
but I think they decided to go with more stations instead. There are a few US college stations that will broadcast at 320kbps (I believe that. Purdue is one of them )
I will look at station addresses & associated call letters I have saved to memory & list them for everybody the next time I listen to the IR. I saved the Classsical stations but a number of these have Jazz sister stations. Don't ignore the 256kbps station as they can also sound quite enjoyable. If you can list the stations
that you have been able to find maybe we can accumulate a station database .
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for the sony internet radio stations :
There are approx 41 different genre's - and you can pick from 644 different stations
There are approx 74 counties and states represented - that total 644 different stations
There are approx 39 different bandwiths - that total 644 different stations
a. there are 6 at 320kpbs - 1 at 256kpbs - 24 at 192kpbs - 1 at 189kpbs - 9 at 160kpbs and so on
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If we're still interested in talking a bit about Internet Radio . There are 2 things I've been curious about for a
while now that have to do with that Kbps rate info.
1) is that Kbps actually just the "streaming feed rate" & not an "MP3 file rate " of the music ?
2) nah, forget the question , it's not that important.
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1) is that Kbps actually just the "streaming feed rate" & not an "MP3 file rate " of the music ?
It's the same thing.
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Steve in Jersey (is that New Jersey 'cause I mentally add the New every time I read it :lol:)
Try http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac
16 bit 48K flac, so higher than CD quality stream. Sounds great.
I have only been able to play it using VLC Media player. JRiver chokes on it and my Squeezebox too.
I'd love to know if the HAP can play it. Anyone?
Thanks
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Try http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac
16 bit 48K flac, so higher than CD quality stream. Sounds great.
I have only been able to play it using VLC Media player. JRiver chokes on it and my Squeezebox too.
Squeezebox can play this now. It may require Logitech Media Server 7.8, but try it with 7.7.x first. Ogg Flac playback has recently been added.
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im listening to "CoolRadio Jazz" from an internet station from germany - at 320kbps
and it sounds ok to good (at least its not poor) - with the sony dsee engaged
im just saying that the sony does justice to the 320kbps stations
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prob this topic needs to be in the "HiRez music circle" under SACD Ripping Service - Free
but im putting this here because im using the sony for this
"Dminches" who is a fellow audiocircler ripped 7 sacd's for me - he ripped them in dsd 2.8Mhz to a thumb drive i provided to him - so i can play them finally on the sony instead of a cd player
its so nice to have your sacd's ripped into a dsd file without having to download the file in dsd from a site and pay extra money when you already have the sacd
the sacd's ripped were
1.Patrica Barber - Companion
2. Jimmy Cobb Quartet - Jazz in the Key of Blue
3. Ike Quebec - Soul Samba
4. Jacques Loussier Trio - The Best of Play Bach
5.James Taylor - Hourglass
6. Kenny Burrell - Mignight Blue
7. First Impressions Music - Audiophile Reference IV
Whats nice is they sound as good on the sony as my mechanical devices (I have 2 cd players)
again thanks to "Dminches" who provided this ripping service - he was thorough and creative - for a few of my disks had a lot of scratches - fast communicator - fast turnaround
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im posting again because sony updated their software for the hap-Z1ES - when i went to use my iphone this morning
i got a message when i tried to access the sony that before i could use the app that the physical player had to be updated
so i turned off the player for about 30 seconds - then i turned it on - and on the screen of the sony it performed the update seemlessly
after the update which took about 3 minutes - i could use the app again on my cell phone without any glitches whatsoever!
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im posting again because sony updated their software for the hap-Z1ES - when i went to use my iphone this morning
i got a message when i tried to access the sony that before i could use the app that the physical player had to be updated
so i turned off the player for about 30 seconds - then i turned it on - and on the screen of the sony it performed the update seemlessly
after the update which took about 3 minutes - i could use the app again on my cell phone without any glitches whatsoever!
Hi Smargo,
I just updated mine, no glitches.
The question that I have now is where does Sony post about the update and what it fixes? :scratch:
Thanks,
Vinnie
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Hi Smargo,
I just updated mine, no glitches.
The question that I have now is where does Sony post about the update and what it fixes? :scratch:
Thanks,
Vinnie
Hi Vinnie -
Here is the explanation from Sony. Its found at: http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-home.pl?mdl=HAPZ1ES&template_id=1®ion_id=1&tab=download#/downloadTab
In the drop down select SYSTEM SOFTWARE then select FIRMWARE.
Thanks,
Scott
********************************************************************************************************************************
File Description UPDATE HAP-Z1ES HDD Audio Player Firmware Upgrade Release Date 4/15/2014 Version 12000R File Size 1 Bytes Download This firmware upgrade (version 12000R) provides the following benefits:
Improvement over version 10435R:
Adds support for folder base browsing
Adds support for deleting content from the device
Note: Supports the "Contents List Option" menu by pressing and holding "ENTER"
Adds support for Gracenote™ data manual acquisition from a track
Note: Supports the "Contents List Option" menu by pressing and holding "ENTER"
IMPORTANT: If you use the HDD Audio Remote app on your smartphone or tablet, you must also update the app software
Benefits provided by the previous update and included in version 12000R:
Supports the DSD Remastering setting
Supports the DSEE setting for Internet Radio
Supports content information (song title etc.) display for vTuner
Note: Information displayed depends on each station.
Supports warning messages when un-supported content is selected (i.e., Unplayable contents, Copyright protection / Multi-channel / Not supported)
Improves user operation for content browsing
Improves the system operation to prevent from selecting unsupported ATRAC® files with DRM (Digital Rights Management) content
Improves the compatibility for enhance interactivity with music files
Note: This update is only available by performing a Network Upgrade. The update file is not available to download and install from this page.
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stercom - thanks for the thorough explanation!
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stercom - thanks for the thorough explanation!
Thanks, Stercom!
All,
The Sony HAP-Z1ES is on the cover of the new Stereophile:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/now-newsstands-istereophilei-vol37-no5
I'm looking forward to reading it!
Vinnie
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also this follow up review came out about 6 days ago
http://audiophilereview.com/cd-dac-digital/the-sony-hap-z1es-two-months-in.html
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I know this will not match any of the mods currently out there, but I have my Sony running through a 299 buck IFI Itube as a pre into my Job 225 amp and this is a very fun listening experience, lots of emotion and holographic imaging. Until I get my funds all together for one of these ultra mods, I am very happy. :D
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Very cool, I can now delete tracks by using my IPad.
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Very cool, I can now delete tracks by using my IPad.
Very nice! Good on Sony for adding this in..
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Think they'll ever offer this in black? I'm not holding my breath about it being available in Canada any time soon either...good excuse for a cross-border shopping trip though! :)
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I cannot get over on how good some of these internet stations are sounding, I wish my downloaded CDs sounded this good. My current favorite station is ABC Lounge Webradio. They play easy listening music with very high quality sound.
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Is there any limitation of the numbers of tracks this Server can handle.
I've read a comment on another forum "" the Sony can only handle a library of no more than 40,000 tracks.
Does that include the combined capacity of the internal HDD and an attached USB HDD? """
Or is this some limitation of a controllable device like a Ipad or Android device
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Hi Guys,
I'm new to the forum. ( and a basically a total novice, where audio equipment is concerned, especially technical / connection stuff !! ) I have been reading various reviews / info on Sony's Hi Res products for sometime. ( I actually bought a Sony Hi Res Walkman - F886, five months ago. )
For months now, I have been debating whether to buy the Sony HAP- S1 or the HAP-Z1ES ?? I would love to go for the latter, but finances are pushed ! So was considering the HAP-S1 as an alternative ?
During the last few days, I have been listening to DSD files. ( converted ) on my Walkman, and have been blown away by the sonic quality !! This has made my desire to purchase one of the HDD systems, even greater !
I'm sort of swaying towards the HAP-Z1ES, because of the extra storage & the DSD Re mastering engine. My main concern with going with this option is, that I only have low / mid end budget equipment, i.e. Sony AV Receiver STR-DH820 & Sony speakers MS-366T. Obviously, to get the true benefit of this player, it would need matching amplifier or high end equipment.
Excusing my ignorance, I know the files are transferred from my laptop to the hard drive of the player, but would my above receiver need to recognise / playback DSD files. ( which I know it doesn't ! ) ? I don't want to go ahead & buy the HAP-Z1ES & find that I need to change my AV Receiver, in order to use it ! ?
Any feedback / advice, would be very much appreciated !
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i saw on the phsical player there was an update i had to perform yesterday - it could have been there a couple of days - i wasnt looking at the physical player until yesterday - this is what i noticed
I know stercom previously posted this link for firmware upgrades
http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-home.pl?mdl=HAPZ1ES&template_id=1®ion_id=1&tab=download#/downloadTab
this is what the firmware upgrade does
File Description UPDATE HAP-Z1ES HDD Audio Player Firmware Upgrade Release Date 4/23/2014 Version 12083R File Size 1 Bytes
DOWNLOAD
This firmware upgrade (version 12083R) provides the following benefits:
Improvement over version 12000R:
Improves secure communication
Benefits provided by the previous update and included in version 12083R:
Adds support for folder base browsing
Adds support for deleting content from the device
Note: Supports the "Contents List Option" menu by pressing and holding "ENTER"
Adds support for Gracenote™ data manual acquisition from a track
Note: Supports the "Contents List Option" menu by pressing and holding "ENTER"
IMPORTANT: If you use the HDD Audio Remote app on your smartphone or tablet, you must also update the app software
Supports the DSD Remastering setting
Supports the DSEE setting for Internet Radio
Supports content information (song title etc.) display for vTuner
Note: Information displayed depends on each station.
Supports warning messages when un-supported content is selected (i.e., Unplayable contents, Copyright protection / Multi-channel / Not supported)
Improves user operation for content browsing
Improves the system operation to prevent from selecting unsupported ATRAC® files with DRM (Digital Rights Management) content
Improves the compatibility for enhance interactivity with music files
Note: This update is only available by performing a Network Upgrade. The update file is not available to download and install from this page.
-
Excusing my ignorance, I know the files are transferred from my laptop to the hard drive of the player, but would my above receiver need to recognise / playback DSD files. ( which I know it doesn't ! ) ? I don't want to go ahead & buy the HAP-Z1ES & find that I need to change my AV Receiver, in order to use it ! ?
Any feedback / advice, would be very much appreciated !
You AV receiver will be fine. The HAP-Z1ES does all the decoding and connects with analog outs.
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I got a HAP here now I have been enjoying for awhile. I am super happy with the sound of this thing. It has a "there is just something right about it" sound to it. Sounds great to me. I would not want to mod this thing for fear of losing its musical addictiveness. Just an immersive sounding player that really gets it right IMO. The sucker just plays good sounding music!
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I got a HAP here now I have been enjoying for awhile. I am super happy with the sound of this thing. It has a "there is just something right about it" sound to it. Sounds great to me. I would not want to mod this thing for fear of losing its musical addictiveness. Just an immersive sounding player that really gets it right IMO. The sucker just plays good sounding music!
I have the IFI Micro Itube hooked up with the 3D circuit turned on playing my stock Z1. This is so amazing, at times you feel like you are sitting within the soundstage itself.
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You AV receiver will be fine. The HAP-Z1ES does all the decoding and connects with analog outs.
Thank you, for your help / feedback. I just now have a decision to buy the HAP-Z1ES, or go with the HAP-S1 ( and speakers ) as a separate music system ?? Ideally, I'd like the flagship player, but so expensive !!
Has anyone compared both players, and if so, does the HAP-Z1ES, justify the price difference, regards, purely based on sound ?
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Thank you, for your help / feedback. I just now have a decision to buy the HAP-Z1ES, or go with the HAP-S1 ( and speakers ) as a separate music system ?? Ideally, I'd like the flagship player, but so expensive !!
Has anyone compared both players, and if so, does the HAP-Z1ES, justify the price difference, regards, purely based on sound ?
Put it in this way, after your purchase of Z1ES, the next upgrade will be top DCS, top Emm, etc. Those in between , don't bother, as you're not a reviewer.
Moreover, the Z1ES comes with DSD re-engine, which is not available in S1. This feature will "re-make" all your music file to DSD quality, just like those re-mixed or re-mastered SACD from the shelf, without paying any cents. And you've an option to toggle between DSD-re-engine and non-DSD-re-engine, if you want to have some fun of it.
And Z1-ES offer internet radio as well, it come free, and you're able to convert it to DSD quality as well, as long as the Z1ES is still functioning.
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Man, I like this sucker. It does not try to show off if that makes sense.
It does not have the super black background, nor does it have the best image focus or detail retrieval. Yet, I have no trouble picturing the event.
What it does is allow the speakers to disappear, has wonderful bass, big soundstage, nice fluid sound. I just want to listen to it all the time because it just sounds so immersive and engaging. Great recordings are WOW!! Even lesser recordings are pretty decent sounding.
It's different. Good different.
I am playing it through tube pre and tube monos, just to disclose...... Further disclosure, this is not mine :( and will be going back to the owner end of this week. However, I have had several DAC's through this system and this Sony is one of the most enjoyable I have heard.
I'm holding out on the purchase for now, but I will likely be getting one. I am also curious to read more reviews on the modded units. Particularly from those that have gotten to know it in stock form prior to the mod(s).
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Put it in this way, after your purchase of Z1ES, the next upgrade will be top DCS, top Emm, etc. Those in between , don't bother, as you're not a reviewer.
Moreover, the Z1ES comes with DSD re-engine, which is not available in S1. This feature will "re-make" all your music file to DSD quality, just like those re-mixed or re-mastered SACD from the shelf, without paying any cents. And you've an option to toggle between DSD-re-engine and non-DSD-re-engine, if you want to have some fun of it.
And Z1-ES offer internet radio as well, it come free, and you're able to convert it to DSD quality as well, as long as the Z1ES is still functioning.
My main concern is, I don't have high end speakers or AV Receiver, to get the true sonic benefit of this player, and at a cost of £2000, I can't afford to upgrade my system. ( I still want one though ! )
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after 2.5 months of listening to this player - the 96khz and the 192khz recordings using the upsampler on the sony sound very special - more so than most of the dsd 2.8mhz upsampled to double dsd - go figure
the 96 and 192 to me in general sound much more real and open and spacious - although the "shelby lynne" sounds spectacular - the best dsd 2.8 i have heard - however this is mostly the exception
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after 2.5 months of listening to this player - the 96khz and the 192khz recordings using the upsampler on the sony sound very special - more so than most of the dsd 2.8mhz upsampled to double dsd - go figure
the 96 and 192 to me in general sound much more real and open and spacious - although the "shelby lynne" sounds spectacular - the best dsd 2.8 i have heard - however this is mostly the exception
Can you transfer converted dsd ( 2.8mhz - double dsd ) files from jriver ?
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Can you transfer converted dsd ( 2.8mhz - double dsd ) files from jriver ?
If the upsampled 2.8mHz DSD (offline via JRiver or Audiogate, for example) files are now 5.6mHz DSF or 5.6mHz DFF files then sure, of course. Might be interesting to hear them via the Sony vs sending the original 2.8mHZ files and having the Sony internally upconvert them to 5.6mHZ anyway. Same with converted PCM to 5.6mHz DSD (with and without DSD mastering on). Those are a few of the things I'll do now that I have the Modwright modded unit for a few days (before I have to get it to Randy aka RKlein, the new owner), and more in depth when I get Vinnie's RWA modded unit.
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By the way, I have not noticed any owners mention this...but the outputs of this Sony machine are inverted polarity, so the right thing to do is swap black/red at your amp or speakers (both channels). And often Dan's tubed mods (and tubed preamps) invert too...but in this case (his Sony HAP-Z1ES Truth Mod) it doesn't..so I needed to swap black/red leads. I realize many recordings are done inverted, so this is somewhat theoretical, but what the heck. I want to compare the same recordings I'm used to, so need to reduce variables as much as possible. I think Vinnie's mods swap them back...but will make sure once the unit arrives.
Edit: Dan takes his signal right from the DAC, before Sony's own phase inverting circuitry....so nevermind...his unit does not require me to change anything. Stock owners should, though. I have an email into Vinnie to ask about his, but I think he works the same as Dan.
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By the way, I have not noticed any owners mention this...but the outputs of this Sony machine are inverted polarity, so the right thing to do is swap black/red at your amp or speakers (both channels). And often Dan's tubed mods (and tubed preamps) invert too...but in this case (his Sony HAP-Z1ES Truth Mod) it doesn't..so I needed to swap black/red leads. I realize many recordings are done inverted, so this is somewhat theoretical, but what the heck. I want to compare the same recordings I'm used to, so need to reduce variables as much as possible. I think Vinnie's mods swap them back...but will make sure once the unit arrives.
Edit: Dan takes his signal right from the DAC, before Sony's own phase inverting circuitry....so nevermind...his unit does not require me to change anything. Stock owners should, though. I have an email into Vinnie to ask about his, but I think he works the same as Dan.
Hi Ted,
I fix this with the RWA-Z1ES-X mods as well, and I posted on the Sony Forum asking if they would consider adding a menu setting to switch the absolute phase (and on the fly via the remote App). hey, you never know... :wink:
Vinnie
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If you make two pair of interconnects that have an XLR on one end and an rca on the other and you terminate them so that one pair has pin 2 as hot and the other pair has pin 3 as hot then you can swap cables coming out of the XLR outputs and compare phase. If you are running balanced then you can make two balanced cables that are hooked up different and compare that way. Obviously, would be way better for Sony to give us a phase control in their software. The balanced outs will sound slightly different than the unbalanced outs. They are using a different op amp and coupling caps on the balanced outs.
All my mods will have the phase correct. If Sony does not give us digital phase switching then I can add a second set of RCAs (or even a second set of XLRs) on the back that would have inverted phase and you could have them both hooked up to your preamp and switch phase by switching inputs.....while you are listening.
If anyone would like a copy of the Philips test disc track #23 (left channel) or #24 (right channel) please email me and I will email them to you (16meg each). These have positive going pulses and if they are going up then it is in positive phase.....if it goes down then negative. You can load it on the Sony or any source and even make a CDR with it and you can check any DAC output. You do need a scope to see the pulse. You can get an inexpensive app for the I/phone/Pad that will make your I thang an o-scope. You do need an adapter cable to get the signal in.
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My main concern is, I don't have high end speakers or AV Receiver, to get the true sonic benefit of this player, and at a cost of £2000, I can't afford to upgrade my system. ( I still want one though ! )
Think of part of the money go to your retirement pension, maybe you will feel better.
I guess it's depend whether you have extract most from your system.
And, if I were you, I'll wait for used set from the US, there might be mod unit available as well. :) So, no harm waiting!
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Has anyone compared this to the Auralic?
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Has anyone compared this to the Auralic?
The Vega? No comparison, the Vega is a dedicated DAC at almost 2x the price, and is quite a bit better on everything. The Auralic Aries is their streamer and not released yet. I will have the first (or one of the first) one for US review and will let you know how it does soon. :)
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after 2.5 months of listening to this player - the 96khz and the 192khz recordings using the upsampler on the sony sound very special - more so than most of the dsd 2.8mhz upsampled to double dsd - go figure
the 96 and 192 to me in general sound much more real and open and spacious - although the "shelby lynne" sounds spectacular - the best dsd 2.8 i have heard - however this is mostly the exception
:thumb: Yep, its all about the music now, not the equipment.
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The Vega? No comparison, the Vega is a dedicated DAC at almost 2x the price, and is quite a bit better on everything. The Auralic Aries is their streamer and not released yet. I will have the first (or one of the first) one for US review and will let you know how it does soon. :)
I was guessing, but you never know as the Sony is brand new... I bet an Aries/Vega combo will sound amazing.
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I actually just had the Vega here and now have the Sony here to play with till tomorrow.
The Vega is one tough DAC. It sets the standard in under $5K DAC's IMO. Maybe even up to $10K. It just does everything right, and handles vocals better than anything I have heard. Superb USB input on it.
One thing though, you gotta use the balanced outputs to find out what it is about. I didn't care much for its RCA outputs.
The Sony is no slouch though. It is very musical and immersive, It does not have the best image focus, stage depth, nor the quietest background, but it does have an ability to engage you to with the music.
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The Vega? No comparison, the Vega is a dedicated DAC at almost 2x the price, and is quite a bit better on everything.
We shall see....as you know, I just sold my E20 MKIII DAC for Dan Wright's modded Sony. When I was at Mike Galusha's he was able to get his Vega to sound pretty damn close to the E20 in sound. I am certainly hoping that the modded Sony with the two Amparex Bugle Boys I have been saving that will be inserted in the 6922 driver stage along with a tasty 5AR4 tube along with the usability of the SONY will make me a happy camper.
I will bring those tubes up when I come up to pick up my Sony (after you get over your TB of course... :wink:)
Regards,
Randy
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That's a plus with the Sony, I could build my own tube output stage for it pretty easily from the sounds of it... probably use another Aikido or maybe mu-follower if I need the gain...
And I would only be using the RCA outs of the Vega since I'm not throwing away my SET amp anytime soon, but the RCA outs did sound really darn good at my place.
It would be a really stupid financial decision for me to buy a Vega, so I gotta ask... if the Sony was competitive it would be awesome because I wouldn't need a computer anymore too. :icon_twisted:
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I was guessing, but you never know as the Sony is brand new... I bet an Aries/Vega combo will sound amazing.
AURALiC formally launch Aries digital audio streamers
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/04/auralic-formally-launch-aries-digital-audio-streamers/
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The Sony is no slouch though. It is very musical and immersive, It does not have the best image focus, stage depth, nor the quietest background, but it does have an ability to engage you to with the music.
however with just the level 1 red wine mods - it has awesome image focus and stage depth and is very quiet on the recordings that lend itself to these traits
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If the upsampled 2.8mHz DSD (offline via JRiver or Audiogate, for example) files are now 5.6mHz DSF or 5.6mHz DFF files then sure, of course. Might be interesting to hear them via the Sony vs sending the original 2.8mHZ files and having the Sony internally upconvert them to 5.6mHZ anyway. Same with converted PCM to 5.6mHz DSD (with and without DSD mastering on). Those are a few of the things I'll do now that I have the Modwright modded unit for a few days (before I have to get it to Randy aka RKlein, the new owner), and more in depth when I get Vinnie's RWA modded unit.
Stupid question....but if you can play converted DSD files, then what's the point of DSD Re-mastering ? Is a converted DSD file, that much different to a re-mastered one, regards playback on this player ??
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I overcame some initial objections and decided to give this a try. Just got my unit in a few days ago and everything seems working properly. No issues with setup or getting music loaded.
I am trying to avoid making any judgements right away, but so far no massive change from my Oppo 93. The unit sounds very nice. My selection of Hi-Rez files is limited so mostly just playing files burned from CD.
My main question is whether anyone else is bothered by the noise the unit makes? It is clearly audible during silences between tracks. I don't really notice it from my listening position much, but if I listen for it the noise is audible (about 12 ft away). The unit is in a well ventilated rack and isn't getting particularly warm.
Is this normal, or perhaps I have a defective unit?
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There is a vast misunderstanding that the DSD Remastering engine is only only "upsampling" files that are
already DSD to begin with. If that were the case it would have been named the DSD Upsampling engine. I think a lot of this confusion stems from the un-precise wording used in the user guide.
The DSD Remastering is taking all the files (be they DSD or PCM) & converting them to 2x "Upsampled DSD"
("On the fly") before playing them. Depending on the recording techniques & quality of the original recording this "re-arraigning" of the files "digital structures" may bring some elements forward & some back.
From what I've been able to read the only other way to convert "PCM to DSD" appears to be in J River Media Center 19.
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What kind of noise does your unit make? Mine is silent and has been since day one...
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There is a vast misunderstanding that the DSD Remastering engine is only only "upsampling" files that are
already DSD to begin with. If that were the case it would have been named the DSD Upsampling engine. I think a lot of this confusion stems from the un-precise wording used in the user guide.
The DSD Remastering is taking all the files (be they DSD or PCM) & converting them to 2x "Upsampled DSD"
("On the fly") before playing them. Depending on the recording techniques & quality of the original recording this "re-arraigning" of the files "digital structures" may bring some elements forward & some back.
From what I've been able to read the only other way to convert "PCM to DSD" appears to be in J River Media Center 19.
Steve,
No one said DSD Remastering is only for DSD material. It's pretty clear in the Sony manual that DSD Remastering works on PCM. And there are several ways to do PCM to DSD (HQplayer, JRiver, Audiogate and DSD Master aka BitPerfect to name four).
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Stupid question....but if you can play converted DSD files, then what's the point of DSD Re-mastering ? Is a converted DSD file, that much different to a re-mastered one, regards playback on this player ??
I was simply answering a very specific question about JRiver having already converted the guys' files. There is little difference in DSD Remastering (frankly) and doing it in JRiver. Both take good care of the conversion, and mange the PCm brick filteriing (and DSD noise shaping) as well as a conversion can.
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I overcame some initial objections and decided to give this a try. Just got my unit in a few days ago and everything seems working properly. No issues with setup or getting music loaded.
I am trying to avoid making any judgements right away, but so far no massive change from my Oppo 93. The unit sounds very nice. My selection of Hi-Rez files is limited so mostly just playing files burned from CD.
My main question is whether anyone else is bothered by the noise the unit makes? It is clearly audible during silences between tracks. I don't really notice it from my listening position much, but if I listen for it the noise is audible (about 12 ft away). The unit is in a well ventilated rack and isn't getting particularly warm.
Is this normal, or perhaps I have a defective unit?
Hi Gzerro,
It should be silent. It sounds like something is defective. If it is a buzzing, it could be a loose power transformer. Otherwise, it could be the hard drive.
This could have been the result of it being dropped hard in shipping. :cry:
Vinnie
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perhaps I have a defective unit?
Probably!
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My main question is whether anyone else is bothered by the noise the unit makes? It is clearly audible during silences between tracks. I don't really notice it from my listening position much, but if I listen for it the noise is audible (about 12 ft away). The unit is in a well ventilated rack and isn't getting particularly warm.
Is this normal, or perhaps I have a defective unit?
Sorry I didn't read this carefully the first time --- If it is just noise between tracks that sounds like a relay click, then this is NORMAL. The mute relay on the output is used to mute the output when you switch between tracks of different sampling frequency (so you don't get a brief pop or static noise when the unit changes clock frequencies). Some players use transistors to mute the outputs, they are not sonically as invisible as a relay that is a mechanical on/off switch.
Vinnie
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Sorry I didn't read this carefully the first time --- If it is just noise between tracks that sounds like a relay click, then this is NORMAL. The mute relay on the output is used to mute the output when you switch between tracks of different sampling frequency (so you don't get a brief pop or static noise when the unit changes clock frequencies). Some players use transistors to mute the outputs, they are not sonically as invisible as a relay that is a mechanical on/off switch.
Vinnie
It is a constant low level whirring noise, not a click. I just hear it between songs because it isn't so loud as to still be noticeable while music is playing. I will give Sony a call and see what they say.
Thanks for the input.
Tom
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I was simply answering a very specific question about JRiver having already converted the guys' files. There is little difference in DSD Remastering (frankly) and doing it in JRiver. Both take good care of the conversion, and mange the PCm brick filteriing (and DSD noise shaping) as well as a conversion can.
Sorry, I wasn't being critical of your reply. I'm trying to understand the benefit of paying £2.000 for DSD Remastering, when you can convert files to DSD, using jriver ?? ( like you suggest. )
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It is a constant low level whirring noise, not a click. I just hear it between songs because it isn't so loud as to still be noticeable while music is playing. I will give Sony a call and see what they say.
Thanks for the input.
Tom
Its probably the hard drive spinning. My HAP-Z1ES is silent but the Olive music server I previously had a "low level whirring noise" which was the hard drive. Let us know how Sony's warranty service is because one of the reasons I originally bought this server is the 5 year warranty. Thanks.
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Its probably the hard drive spinning. My HAP-Z1ES is silent but the Olive music server I previously had a "low level whirring noise" which was the hard drive. Let us know how Sony's warranty service is because one of the reasons I originally bought this server is the 5 year warranty. Thanks.
Question on the "hard drives" if a non Sony center replaces a hard drive I guess their goes your 5 years warranty unless there is some magic in the format of the hard drive that Sony must do for the device to function as designed .
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Let us know how Sony's warranty service is because one of the reasons I originally bought this server is the 5 year warranty. Thanks.
Nice warranty. Too bad all of those modded units are not under warranty anymore. :o
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Its probably the hard drive spinning. My HAP-Z1ES is silent but the Olive music server I previously had a "low level whirring noise" which was the hard drive. Let us know how Sony's warranty service is because one of the reasons I originally bought this server is the 5 year warranty. Thanks.
That is what I suspect as well. I will let you know what Sony says.
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Nice warranty. Too bad all of those modded units are not under warranty anymore. :o
RWA customers need not to worry - you know I'll take care of you and probably faster than Sony will. :thumb:
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RWA customers need not to worry - you know I'll take care of you and probably faster than Sony will. :thumb:
I would have no doubt that Vinnie and also Dan Wright would not leave their customers in the lurch with these units in regards to any type of warranty work. That is why I am an early adopter of this modded unit. In my case, I decided to take Dan up on his great offer on his demo unit from Axpona. I just heard it for the first time at Ted_b's (who brought it back for me from Chicago) and for a unit that has not even broken in yet, overall, I am very pleased. We first listened with the stock Sovtek 6922 driver tubes and then we through in two Amparex ECC88 Bugle Boys and everything went up another notch. :thumb:
Regards,
Randy
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I would have no doubt that Vinnie and also Dan Wright would not leave their customers in the lurch with these units in regards to any type of warranty work. That is why I am an early adopter of this modded unit. In my case, I decided to take Dan up on his great offer on his demo unit from Axpona. I just heard it for the first time at Ted_b's (who brought it back for me from Chicago) and for a unit that has not even broken in yet, overall, I am very pleased. We first listened with the stock Sovtek 6922 driver tubes and then we through in two Amparex ECC88 Bugle Boys and everything went up another notch. :thumb:
Regards,
Randy
And I also updated the power supply from a stock 5AR4 to a Mullard metal base. This thing is breaking in very nicely. :)
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And I also updated the power supply from a stock 5AR4 to a Mullard metal base. This thing is breaking in very nicely. :)
Oh Yeah...I forgot about the Mullard 5AR4 you inserted in the Power Supply! :duh:
Ted has heard the "break in" whereas I just heard it today after it being on for the last three days.
Randy
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for all those who havent seen or read yet
http://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-hap-z1es-high-resolution-file-player
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Thanks to ted_ b for turning me on to this awesome site - I can download to my hearts content to the sony player (You can also explore everyone in the world that provides hirez downloaded music)
http://www.findhdmusic.com/albums/search?q=&fmt_dsd=1
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Yeah, and we're working with them to include NativeDSD.com too.
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Thanks to ted_ b for turning me on to this awesome site - I can download to my hearts content to the sony player (You can also explore everyone in the world that provides hirez downloaded music)
http://www.findhdmusic.com/albums/search?q=&fmt_dsd=1
Cool - thanks, guys!
Any sites have free High Res PCM and/or DSD downloads? (that are
both good performances and good SQ)?
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Vinnie,
Check the stickies here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=150.0
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Hi guys,
I received the HAP-S1, earlier today. ( Couldn't buy the HAP-Z1ES. ) Which, at this moment in time, I'm glad I didn't, thanks to the ridiculous, poorly explained HAP Transfer softwear !!
At this moment in time, I have my "computer" showing in the list, if I click to add anything else in the list like "libraries", it doesn't add.
I clicked manual transfer, and it showed 10.000 + files. ( I'll be retirement age, by the time that's transferred !! ) Is it possible to add individual files / albums, from JRiver, ( for instance. ) If so can anyone advise, please ?
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Vinnie,
Check the stickies here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=150.0
Thanks, Wisnon!
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Hi guys,
I received the HAP-S1, earlier today. ( Couldn't buy the HAP-Z1ES. ) Which, at this moment in time, I'm glad I didn't, thanks to the ridiculous, poorly explained HAP Transfer softwear !!
At this moment in time, I have my "computer" showing in the list, if I click to add anything else in the list like "libraries", it doesn't add.
I clicked manual transfer, and it showed 10.000 + files. ( I'll be retirement age, by the time that's transferred !! ) Is it possible to add individual files / albums, from JRiver, ( for instance. ) If so can anyone advise, please ?
Rob,
Congratz on the new player. I understand your frustration. The software cannot selectively synchronize, but for a workaround here is what I did:
1) Make a new directory called "HAPZ Music"
2) Set the Transfer Software to Sync to the new "HAPZ Music" folder.
2) Make a 2nd new directory called "Music to Transfer"
3) Copy everything from your music library/JRiver/iTunes etc. into the "Music to Transfer" folder.
4) Move a small number of folders at a time from "Music to Transfer" to the "HAPZ Music" directory. Moving the files instead of copying allows you to keep track of what has already been moved onto the player.
This puts you in control of what transfers, and lets you use your new player as you want during the day. I found I could transfer about 1,500 CD resolution files each night and it would be done by the time I got home from work the next day (by wireless).
The good news is once the transfer is done, you don't really need to mess with the software. The player will automatically synchronize anything new you add to the library.
Good luck.
Tom
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Apart from Gzerro,
read #158 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/sony-hap-z1es-has-arrived-19079/index7.html
You don't have to use the HAP Transfer software for file transfer, just copy the source from HDD to Sony directly, i.e. Copy-and-paste the entire "Music to Transfer" folder to Sony.
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Thank you, Tom & Peter, for your help / advice.
I'll briefly explain, I suffer from severe M.E. / Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, which affects "cognitive" function, i.e. the simplest of instructions, can be complex !!
I've never even put my music into folders. ( Even without the M.E. I don't think I would be very computer literate !! ? )
I'll try & follow what you suggest, and click the link also. Thanks for help....I'm 50 now....with a bit of luck, I might be able to give some sonic feedback, by the time I'm 55 !!! :lol:
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...just to add....great start to the day !....player not showing in HAP Transfer ?? I'm connected wirelessly...pressed the WPS, but nothing !!
I'm already so tired, through lack of sleep, so it looks like today is going to be even more frustrating than yesterday !!
Update : Panic over for now....player showing on softwear.....now to try and get my head around the transfer issue !!
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so - for all those that want to know - i have approx 1,344 songs on the sony (just internal storage)
with a mix of all sample rates and compressions - id say 75% are not compressed at all - 15% dsd - .5% dsd x2 40% = 192/24 and 96/24 and 48/24 and 88/24 and 44/24 (in alac - flac - wav - but mostly aiff) and 44% - 44/16 (mostly aiff)
i have used approx 91 gigabytes
and have approx 823 gigabytes free
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I need to upload more music but I find I listen to the internet radio 80 percent of the time. The Internet Radio was worth the price of admission for me.
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I've had my HAP-Z1ES for a couple of months now and have been having hang problems with it since day one. I initially attempted to transfer all 34,000+ tracks (flac) and it would periodically hang, usually after 30 minutes to a couple of hours. Once it finally completed with the transfer then it hung almost constantly.
Giving up on this approach, I decided to try transferring only a few hundred or so tracks at a time. Also, I only placed about 1500 on the Sony box. That was much better, and I can get the Sony to play tracks now, but it still will eventually hang (requiring pressing the power button for about 15 seconds to get it to power off). Most of the time it will hang within an hour or two of operation, though occasionally it hangs sooner (30 minutes). When it hangs it usually stops in the middle of playing a track and none of the controls on the front panel work (excepting for the power button when held down for a while).
So far, after powering it off, I can then power it back on immediately and it will then run ok again till the next hang.
Is anyone else seeing this behavior? I'm trying to understand if this is a fundamental problem with the device, or if mine is somehow broken.
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Hello Bill - Are you using Wifi or Ethernet connection? If WiFi try a direct Ethernet connection from computer with music files to the HAP. If this eliminates the problem, your Wifi needs to be a more robust signal. I have a 100 ft long cable I keep around for initial music file installation, yes it's ugly running across the floor while it's in the system but after a day a of heavy lifting file transfer was done and I haven't had to use it since then.
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I'm hardwired (GIGe). I don't really think it has anything to do with my ethernet connection as it will hang just as often when only playing tracks as well. It seems to be simply a function of turning it on and using it.
I do have a fairly complex home network (lots of systems/devices on it) so I may have more network traffic than most.
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If the music hangs up while playing, and the music is on the HAP's hard drive, the problem is not Wifi or Ethernet, but something else, something I've never experienced with my HAP after almost six month's of regular use. If the music that hangs up is from the Internet tuner section, the problem is still, most likely, network traffic interference or slow-down. Again, I've had "Hi-def" video streaming to Direct TV at the same time as listening to Internet radio through the HAP with no issues and I have only basic Centurylink service.
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I just ordered one from Sony. :green:
Can't wait!
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If the music hangs up while playing, and the music is on the HAP's hard drive, the problem is not Wifi or Ethernet, but something else, something I've never experienced with my HAP after almost six month's of regular use. If the music that hangs up is from the Internet tuner section, the problem is still, most likely, network traffic interference or slow-down. Again, I've had "Hi-def" video streaming to Direct TV at the same time as listening to Internet radio through the HAP with no issues and I have only basic Centurylink service.
My friends Sony keeps un-synchronizing with his IPad. He is starting to wonder if he has a lemon.
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I don't want to hear anything about lemons right now Tom! :icon_twisted: :lol:
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I don't want to hear anything about lemons right now Tom! :icon_twisted: :lol:
No problem on mine. :thumb:
I am really enjoying mine, it has me spoiled.
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Hi all - I'm not a computer expert (thats one of the reasons I bought this unit!) but I control the HAP-Z1ES with an Ipad and have no problems. The way it does this is through your network - its not some type of wireless link from the HAP-Z1ES to the Ipad (via Bluetooth or something). I'm guessing the issues people have been reporting are because of poor network performance, more specifically their router!. If you don't have a newer dual antenna Wi-Fi 802.11 "n" router then go buy one! They are about $100. Also move the router to the most central location in your house possible and raise it above any obstacles. I use a network repeater that is near my stereo room and literally can connect to the HAP-Z1ES from any room in the house. As I've mentioned before, I didn't have any problem downloading music. I still think its best to use a direct ethernet connection, don't let you computer "go to sleep" during the process, let Gracenotes fully update and when its finished - reboot the HAP-Z1ES. If that process is interrupted then there will probably be problems, is my guess. Anyway, thats my 2 cents.
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Also move the router to the most central location in your house possible and raise it above any obstacles. I use a network repeater that is near my stereo room and literally can connect to the HAP-Z1ES from any room in the house. As I've mentioned before, I didn't have any problem downloading music. I still think its best to use a direct ethernet connection,
agreed - just as you suggest - except i use it wirelessly - with no download issues whatsoever and to me the music sounds wonderful
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If the music hangs up while playing, and the music is on the HAP's hard drive, the problem is not Wifi or Ethernet, but something else, something I've never experienced with my HAP after almost six month's of regular use. If the music that hangs up is from the Internet tuner section, the problem is still, most likely, network traffic interference or slow-down. Again, I've had "Hi-def" video streaming to Direct TV at the same time as listening to Internet radio through the HAP with no issues and I have only basic Centurylink service.
It is from tracks that I've mostly purchased from either acousticsounds or hdtracks. Mostly flac files. Once I restart the player (after the forcing off by holding the power off button for 15 or more seconds) it will then continue playing the track. It has also hung during the transfer of files to it (usually will hang on a transfer that lasts more than a couple of hours) and even when simply sitting idle...turned on but not playing anything.
I currently have about 1500 tracks on it. When I originally got it I tried downloading all of my 35000+ tracks to an external 4TB drive. That was a grueling experience. Hung countless times and when it finally (after days of torture) finished it wouldn't play anything at all. At that point I did a factory reset and removed the external drive. Now I'm using only the internal 1TB drive. So long as I don't leave it on too long (only 1 to 2 hours), it will usually play w/o hanging.
Oh, and as I mentioned before, I'm not using Wi-Fi. The HAP box is hardwired to my GIGe network.
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Well, I got it and it's up and running... so far so good! The SQ does not disappoint either, it does a VERY good job, massive difference vs my Schiit Bifrost, which really isn't a bad DAC. :thumb:
I was ready for the music transfer process to be a pita, and it is... there's no way to move large amounts of data without it taking alot of time, and I think it's doing a good job TBH. It takes about 2x as long as it takes for the computer to move music into a transfer folder, I am just going alphabetically in 50 gig or so chunks using manual transfer. I went wireless as the modem/router is in the same room right next to computer and HAP. So far no issues with wireless.
I loaded the HDD smartphone amp on my Samsung 3S, it recognizes the HAP, but isn't fully functional right now, I guess the HAP is busy with the file transfer process, but they should have made it fully functional while it is processing imo.
Basically, I feel criticisms leveled against the HAP are pretty much nit-picking, with the exception of bwillcox... maybe a defective unit?
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Certainly my unit could be defective. I suppose the hangs that I'm experiencing might be heat related since the unit works fine when first powered on and for sometimes several hours. Also, it doesn't appear to be directly related to what it's doing at the time. I've had it hang during transfers, while playing tracks (always a different track), and when just sitting idle in a paused state.
So, can I assume that no one else is experiencing hangs??
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Certainly my unit could be defective. I suppose the hangs that I'm experiencing might be heat related since the unit works fine when first powered on and for sometimes several hours. Also, it doesn't appear to be directly related to what it's doing at the time. I've had it hang during transfers, while playing tracks (always a different track), and when just sitting idle in a paused state.
So, can I assume that no one else is experiencing hangs??
I have not read about any issues like this being common, I would definitely return it for a different unit.
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Well, I got it and it's up and running... so far so good! The SQ does not disappoint either, it does a VERY good job, massive difference vs my Schiit Bifrost, which really isn't a bad DAC. :thumb:
I use my Sony with a highly tweaked out IFI Itube. This combo sounds so magical, yet highly detailed.
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Anyone having issues with the HDD app on android?
On the main screen with the selection for tracks, folders., genres, artists, etc... you pick one and get info on the right hand side of the screen, but it's condensed to the right 1/4 of the screen and you can't see much, not enough to identify the album or artist you are trying to find. Using the search doesn't seem to be very useful either.
If you select full browser mode you get Artist, Genre, Album and Tracks selections but none of these seem to do anything or provide any info.
This app seems severely handicapped and poorly written. Do you need a bigger tablet to make it work out? This is ridiculous, one of the worst apps I've ever seen and so far a huge downside.
Or is this app just completely handicapped when transferring files? (I still am)
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Certainly my unit could be defective. I suppose the hangs that I'm experiencing might be heat related since the unit works fine when first powered on and for sometimes several hours. Also, it doesn't appear to be directly related to what it's doing at the time. I've had it hang during transfers, while playing tracks (always a different track), and when just sitting idle in a paused state.
So, can I assume that no one else is experiencing hangs??
Ok, so I experienced a "hang" today while transferring music too. It was a result of a temporary drop in the internet, the HAP uses the internet to get info and it just stopped doing everything including playing music when the internet went down. This was a very short interruption and it recovered after a minute or two, but I did have to restart the transfer. It recognized where it had left off and didn't have to start from the beginning. I also didn't have to turn the unit off and then back on again, it recovered by its self. This is definitely a glitch and I think it could be corrected by a firmware update, hopefully Sony will do that in the near future.
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All,
I have found that using an ethernet "crossover" type (aka "null modem" cable) directly between the computer and Z1ES offers
the fastest transfer, without any trouble.
I would do that if you can. Then when the machine connects to the network, it will look up all the album info and shouldn't have
any trouble.
I'm not saying that you have to do it this way, but if you want the best transfer speed and least amount of problem, this is the way to go.
Vinnie
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All,
I have found that using an ethernet "crossover" type (aka "null modem" cable) directly between the computer and Z1ES offers
the fastest transfer, without any trouble.
I would do that if you can. Then when the machine connects to the network, it will look up all the album info and shouldn't have
any trouble.
I'm not saying that you have to do it this way, but if you want the best transfer speed and least amount of problem, this is the way to go.
Vinnie
Well, my local network is anything but simple, with three GigE switches between the laptop I use to do the transfers and the Sony HAP unit. Given my setup/environment it would be very inconvenient to have to connect my laptop directly to the Sony HAP box with a crossover cable.
Also, today the HAP happily played for over 8 hours before hanging. However, once it did hang and I had to do the forced power off ritual, when it started back up it started playing a different track than the one it was playing at the time of the hang (usually, when starting up after a normal shutdown it picks up at the same point in the same track). Then it only ran for a relatively short length of time (less than an hour) before hanging again. It looks like I'm going to be forced to replace it. Hopefully the replacement unit will work better.
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So this evening I got a message that an update was available. I loaded the update and everything seemed to go as normal. I also updated my iPad app at the same time.
Now I cannot browse from the iPad. It displays albums and even has the correct number of tracks on the display, but when I click through to display the tracks none are listed. The only way I can currently use the player is to browse by folder.
Anyone else having issues with the new update? I try to "resync" and it whirs a bit and says it resync end, but still no tracks will display.
Edit with Update - I tried my iPhone and it worked normally. Also was fine from the player front panel. Seems just a glitch with the iPad update. I deleted the app, downloaded and re-installed and now everything is back to normal.
Leaving this here in case anyone else runs into the same glitch.
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I purchased my HAP-S1 two months ago today. Yesterday, I was transferring my final 115 files. ( It's taken me all this time, to rip cd's, convert them to DSD, and then transfer them....800 - 900 albums. )
During this final transfer, I noticed connection had been lost. ( nothing unusual in that. ) but the count transfer froze, and did not alter. So I continued the transfer, the count moving along until transfer said finished....unfortunately, the count transfer froze again.
Still the same this morning so had to phone Sony. I was advised to do a factory reset, and a rescan. I asked if this would wipe the external hard drive, to which he replied no, but what I have found that, it appears to have wiped the internal drive, and the majority of albums do not show any art work now. ( I'm still waiting for the rescan to finish so hope it will update the database when finished ?
I'm not happy with the prospect of re-doing 200 + albums to the internal hard drive again, or ( God forbid !! ) any on the external hard drive ! Ironically there was a firmware update this morning, along with a new version of the HAP transfer softwear. ( Which after downloading, doesn't look any different to me ?? ) I do not have an android device, for the HAP transfer.
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All,
I am very interested in the firmware & HAP software updates too. I have had occasional hiccups, but nothing to the degree some of you are having. I had to wipe the internal HDD and start over once. Not all the HAPs fault though, I had made it more difficult by the structure of my files. There are still some problems with tagging and cover art. I hope future updates will solve these minor problems and make tagging revisions a little less cumbersome.
That said, after transferring my 18k of files and burning in the unit for several hundred hours, I gotta say, this thingy sounds very, very nice. I really like it.
I hope Sony will continue to tweak the firmware/software and then we will all be happy!
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Ironically there was a firmware update this morning, along with a new version of the HAP transfer softwear. ( Which after downloading, doesn't look any different to me ?? ) I do not have an android device, for the HAP transfer.
After the update I got a message that there was new HAP transfer software for PC as well. However the current version on Sony's website has the same filename and filesize as the version I downloaded several months ago, and is dated from 2013.
Good luck on getting your files re-indexed properly!
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After the update I got a message that there was new HAP transfer software for PC as well. However the current version on Sony's website has the same filename and filesize as the version I downloaded several months ago, and is dated from 2013.
Good luck on getting your files re-indexed properly!
Thanks !! I can't believe that it looks like I've got to re-do 800 + albums !! What if the player freeze's again, and I have to resort to a factory re-set, yet again ??
I did notice that the date was Nov 2013.
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Thanks !! I can't believe that it looks like I've got to re-do 800 + albums !! What if the player freeze's again, and I have to resort to a factory re-set, yet again ??
I did notice that the date was Nov 2013.
Well, I made the mistake of trying to transfer all 3000+ albums (35000+ tracks) to my HAP-Z1ES when I first got it. Took days, many hangs, and when I finally finished the player wouldn't play anything. This was on an external drive. So, I removed the external drive, did a factory reset, and have been transferring only a few albums at a time. I currently only have about 200 on it now. But my player still hangs after 1-8 hours of being turned on (doesn't have to be doing anything). :(
I just updated the firmware on it with the recently released new version and have updated my transfer program on my laptop. Haven't done anything more with it yet though.
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I just updated to the most current firmware and HAP as well. Date is 7/8/14. Also updated HDD Remote. Hoping for even modest improvements across the board.
Son Seals: I can't hear nothin' but the blues. :thumb:
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Yeah, well I updated my HAP-Z1ES player and the transfer program and now I can't successfully transfer any tracks to the player. I even tried a factory reset and still no dice. The transfer program claims to be transferring 121 tracks (should be over 1700 now that I did the reset) and takes an appropriate amount of time (seems to be transferring the bits to the box), but nothing ever gets there. So, now I'm stuck with just the 15 tracks that Sony initially provided with the unit. :(
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Can anyone help me with the remote app?
The app seems like it thinks my smartphone (samsung s3) is a tablet and I can't get it to display vertically, only horizontally, and there isn't enough real estate to see the display. This makes the remote app worthless and it looks like I'm going to have to buy a tablet just to have a useable remote and access the additional features the app has, like being able to make a playlist.
I'm not sure about this thing anymore, it's a great idea and the sound quality is very good but I may return it. Way too many bugs and inconveniences for a $2k high end music server. :evil: I don't know... maybe it's good enough to spend $150 or so on a basic tablet but why should I have to. This is ridiculous to have to deal with this crap after spending so much cash on it.
bwillcox, return it!!! The issues you are having seem completely unliveable and there's gotta be an issue with your unit.
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bwillcox, return it!!! The issues you are having seem completely unliveable and there's gotta be an issue with your unit.
Yeah, I'm going to have to now. I will get tired of those initial 15 tracks pretty fast! :)
I will probably try one more time with a new unit. I really like the device when it works...too bad mine doesn't like to do that. :(
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Yeah... I was looking at tablets and it looks like I can get a 7" Toshiba, a fairly basic unit, for $99 at Best Buy. I may pick it up and see if the HDD remote app works better with it that my phone.
What are other people using for a remote device and how is it working? Anyone? Bueller?
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Looks like they just put up the new PC version of HAP Transfer since last night. Last night they had filename 0009120.exe, version 1, now it is filename 11007011.exe, version 1.1.
Cosmetically v1.1 looks identical to v1.0 except you have the option to change the IP address which I don't recall the old version having. Hopefully there are other improvements under the hood.
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Yeah... I was looking at tablets and it looks like I can get a 7" Toshiba, a fairly basic unit, for $99 at Best Buy. I may pick it up and see if the HDD remote app works better with it that my phone.
What are other people using for a remote device and how is it working? Anyone? Bueller?
I've been using a 7" Google Nexus that has been working pretty well for me...well till my current problem with the HAP-Z1ES itself.
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I've been using a 7" Google Nexus that has been working pretty well for me...well till my current problem with the HAP-Z1ES itself.
Thanks, I found a 7" Toshiba tablet that just came out for $100 that looks like it'll do the job. Going to complain to Sony and ask for $100 off to cover it, I bought it from the Sony website so hopefully they will be reasonable, as the app really doesn't work with my S3 whatsoever.
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After looking around what's happening is the app thinks my phone is a tablet and won't function as a smartphone app. So it just doesn't work at all and there's no settings to tell it it's being used on a phone and not a tablet. Big FAIL for Sony. :evil:
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FWIW, I'm currently copying my tracks from my laptop to the HAP-Z1ES using the Windows explorer. Not sure how this will work out, but it would be hard to make a bigger mess of my HAP box than it already is. So far it appears to actually be copying the files. Once it completes (assuming it doesn't hang), I'll run a scan on the HAP and see if it makes it through that.
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Yeah, well I updated my HAP-Z1ES player and the transfer program and now I can't successfully transfer any tracks to the player. I even tried a factory reset and still no dice. The transfer program claims to be transferring 121 tracks (should be over 1700 now that I did the reset) and takes an appropriate amount of time (seems to be transferring the bits to the box), but nothing ever gets there. So, now I'm stuck with just the 15 tracks that Sony initially provided with the unit. :(
I thought I had problems ! I would return for a new unit.
Anyway, I'm starting the long process again. Doing so many through the day, and not letting it run overnight. If I ever have to do another factory reset I think i'll throw it through the window !! Good luck.
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My Windows Explorer file copies are still running, copying the tracks to the HAP-Z1ES. The operation did run into a glitch overnight while I wasn't around to monitor it in that it encountered some tracks that had characters in their filenames that Windows doesn't like (on my FreeBSD file server they just show up as question marks - "?"). This caused the stupid Windows program to stop and ask me what to do with them...sigh. Consequently the copies aren't done yet.
The maybe good news though, this - so far - seems to be working better than the new Sony transfer program. I'm later going to uninstall and reinstall that dog to see if it behaves better on a fresh install (rather than the upgrade it did before).
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Google Nexus 7 here too. Works well, but I would be lying if I didn't say I wish it had more options, like "recently added" and maybe a cover view or something like that...I guess I've gotten spoiled by JMR 19. Perhaps someone will eventually come out with another, more robust, version... Until then, it does work reasonably well for me. I do understand the issue of $200 for a tablet, but hey, I've spent more than that on a pair of tubes. :oops:
With my fingers crossed, mine is operating very well right now, although I did not have to load files again after the firmware update, so I cannot speak to that issue. I will, however, mention something else that may be of interest to some of you:
I have a Cisco/Linksys RE1000 wireless repeater with a CAT5 cable from the repeater to the HAP. It operates like a hardwired connection. Not as fast perhaps, but has worked well for the most part. Sometimes it quits, and I have just assumed it was due to the wireless having an issue. Last night, my HAP lost its connection to the Internet. I spent an hour trying to figure it out with no luck. I'd see "OK" then "Failed" on the network status. Finally, I reloaded everything and when it still didn't work, I did the simple thing; checked the CAT 5 and it was not fully seated in the connector! As soon as I pushed it in, all magically worked again. Imagine that... :duh:
So, after that long explanation, the moral is to check your cable connection if you are getting an intermittent network connection!
Being an early adopter is a dirty job. Damn good thing it sounds so wonderful...its kinda like a kid (or a Squeezebox)...a few mysteries, a bump and bruise or two; some days when it makes you so mad you'd like to take it to the woodshed, but through it all, ya love it anyway. Then it grows up to eventually become a productive member of your audio system!
I hope I still feel this way in a year. :lol:
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I've had the unit for several months now. There is over 500GB of music in it and I use a HTC Android phone as a remote. No problem to speak of.
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Well, my experiment to copy my music tracks to the HAP-Z1ES via Windows Explorer seems to have been a qualified success. The copy wasn't particularly fast. It ran at a rate of about 16MB/s, taking about 4 actual hours to copy the 215GB of data. Once that completed I then had the unit scan its hard drive. This operation hung the first time I tried it and I had to force power-cycle the box. The 2nd time it made it all the way through (taking a bit over an hour).
Once that was done, then it apparently wasn't completely done scanning/categorizing stuff as it had its spinner going in the upper right side of the display and began counting down tracks as it went. This operation got to 900 in its count-down (just about half way) and the unit froze once again. After power cycling it once again it started back up with where it left off in its count-down and eventually finished.
It's currently playing music (using the Night SenseME setting) and is - so far - doing ok. No idea how long it will run w/o hanging. I'm not too confident about that at this point.
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I re-started the process of transferring all my music again, yesterday, and it's just completely frozen yet again ! I've had to do another factory re-set....quickly falling out of love, with this player !
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I re-started the process of transferring all my music again, yesterday, and it's just completely frozen yet again ! I've had to do another factory re-set....quickly falling out of love, with this player !
Not sure if this is the problem, but just check that your computer or hard drive is not going to "sleep" because of an energy saver mode being enabled. I had one occurrence of the transfer hanging and its because my computer went dormant, not the HAP-Z1ES.
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Note that my hangs during transfer haven't been for that reason (laptop going to sleep) as I set it to never do that while plugged in (as mine was). It has always been wide awake when the HAP-Z1ES has hung.
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Not sure if this is the problem, but just check that your computer or hard drive is not going to "sleep" because of an energy saver mode being enabled. I had one occurrence of the transfer hanging and its because my computerh went dormant, not the HAP-Z1ES.
It happened while I was using the laptop, so I don't think it's that ? There's a few times now, that when I'm deleting from the player, it freezes & I have no choice but to unplug the power.
Also, everytime I switch the player on, there's a message saying that it's checking the external hard drive, and a second message saying errors were found. I didn't use to get this message before I had the problems.
I think i'll have to resort to stoping the transfer after every 10-20 files ?
I've left it running overnight to complete the update to the database. The circle is still going round, and I can't see any obvious art work, that suggests it's updating successfully ??
I've just noticed it's frozen, circle still revolving, I can't access menu or anything ! Looks like i'll be ringing Sony again ! ?
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When the HAP-Z1ES freezes, you might want to try what works for me. Press and hold the power button (for at least 5 seconds, longer if need be). That should then cause it to shutdown w/o having to pull the plug.
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When the HAP-Z1ES freezes, you might want to try what works for me. Press and hold the power button (for at least 5 seconds, longer if need be). That should then cause it to shutdown w/o having to pull the plug.
Thanks for that, i'll do that next time it should happen, which I'm sure it will !
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Yeah, mine will hang once every 1-8 hours (eight hours is the longest it has ever survived w/o hanging :( ).
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I have had my stock unit for almost two months. The only hang I had occurred during my initial transfer, when my Mac went to sleep overnight. Corrected that the next day and did a 24/7 for a couple of days until all done. No issues at all so far. My internal disk is full (15,804 tracks) and my 2T external Passport has only 76 GB on it.
Does anybody know if the 13078R update fixes the reverse phase issue? I have multiple sources hooked up, so I have not reverse my speaker connections.
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I have had my stock unit for almost two months. The only hang I had occurred during my initial transfer, when my Mac went to sleep overnight. Corrected that the next day and did a 24/7 for a couple of days until all done. No issues at all so far. My internal disk is full (15,804 tracks) and my 2T external Passport has only 76 GB on it.
Well, that's really good to hear. I'm trying to get a Return Authorization for mine now. That's not going too well either. The Sony service guy wanted me to do yet another Factory Reset to it and download about 20,000 tracks. I told him I have been "testing" this device for over two months already and was getting sick and tired of doing that. I then asked him if he thought I was one of his beta testers? He, of course, denied that and said that he was only trying to find out what the problem was. I told him that I'd be happy to swap mine with a new one and then he could do all the testing he'd like with it.
Also, he really wanted to blame all of my hangs on corrupted data. Either the files or the data base. This doesn't seem to be that likely to me since the hangs don't appear to be related to what the device is doing. It will hang while transferring files, playing tracks, or just sitting idle. I haven't been able to associate any particular track or activity to the event.
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I have an interesting problem now. I did the update recently, now none of my CD tracks shows up on my IPad now. I can run and search internet radio, but no CD tracks. I can search on my Sony and find them still. Anyone else having a similar problem?
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I have an interesting problem now. I did the update recently, now none of my CD tracks shows up on my IPad now. I can run and search internet radio, but no CD tracks. I can search on my Sony and find them still. Anyone else having a similar problem?
Try the sort function.
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I have an interesting problem now. I did the update recently, now none of my CD tracks shows up on my IPad now. I can run and search internet radio, but no CD tracks. I can search on my Sony and find them still. Anyone else having a similar problem?
Try remove app from ipad and reinstall, that was how I fix my issue
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Try the sort function.
That works, but it sure would be nice to have it back the other way.
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Latest thing.....player just gone to standby mode, during playback. First time that's happened !
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Latest thing.....player just gone to standby mode, during playback. First time that's happened !
Was it still responsive to front panel controls when it did that? Mine will, at random intervals, lock up while playing various tracks requiring a forced power off and then power back on to get it responsive again.
I'm getting a replacement unit shipped to me. Should be here sometime next week. Hopefully it will be better behaved than my current one.
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Rob50, are you sure that your HAP box didn't just go to sleep due to no input from you? Mine has a sleep mode that I have turned off so that it won't do this to me.
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Was it still responsive to front panel controls when it did that? Mine will, at random intervals, lock up while playing various tracks requiring a forced power off and then power back on to get it responsive again.
I'm getting a replacement unit shipped to me. Should be here sometime next week. Hopefully it will be better behaved than my current one.
I didn't access the menu, just waited for the seconds to count down to see what happened ? I just switched it back on, and it was showing the track that had been playing.
My sleep mode is set to off. ( I'm glad I didn't buy the far more expensive HAP-Z1ES. ) I hope you have better luck with your replacement !!
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( I'm glad I didn't buy the far more expensive HAP-Z1ES. )
you mean you havent been talking about the HAP-Z1ES?
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you mean you havent been talking about the HAP-Z1ES?
No, if you read one of earlier posts, I state that I bought the HAP-S1.
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No, if you read one of earlier posts, I state that I bought the HAP-S1.
sorry i didnt read your earlier post - i thought this thread was only for the Z1ES - didnt know we were allowed to talk about other sony products here
Im surprised the "topic police" havent made their presence known
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sorry i didnt read your earlier post - i thought this thread was only for the Z1ES - didnt know we were allowed to talk about other sony products here
Im surprised the "topic police" havent made their presence known
I would be really surprised if the HAP-S1 wasn't VERY similar to the HAP-Z1ES, especially in its software. They are likely virtually identical in that regard.
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sorry i didnt read your earlier post - i thought this thread was only for the Z1ES - didnt know we were allowed to talk about other sony products here
Im surprised the "topic police" havent made their presence known
Well I think that would be a little churlish, given that it's the Z1's little brother, and works via the same softwear.
I really would have loved to buy the Z1, but finances dictated. ( Perhaps the HAP-S1, should have it's own thread ?.....not that I've searched for one ! )
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Im surprised the "topic police" havent made their presence known
You rang?
This is a review thread (despite all of the troubleshooting related posts best left to another circle). Per the posting guidelines, comparisons to other products are encouraged.
If you truly want to review another product however, and not just offer a comparison to the product currently under review, then I'd recommend starting a new thread just to avoid confusion.
Thank you.
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So everything is going well with my HAP-Z1ES right now. :thumb:
I got a 10" tablet for remote and also to serve as a more portable option vs my enormous 17" laptop. The remote app is not perfect but it works pretty well.
I also got new cell phone service and ended up with a Sony Xperia Z phone, which is very awesome and a huge upgrade over Samsung. I will never own another Samsung product after seeing the difference in the Xperia vs Galaxy. Also, the HDD remote app works on the Xperia and not on the Galaxy. :green:
Now that music is all transferred and I have 2 working remote-capable devices things are going very well.
The only glitches I have noticed lately are maybe once every 30-40 hours of playing music it will stop, pause for a few seconds, then start playing the same track it was on from the beginning. No idea why, it's minor and happens so infrequently I'm not worried about it.
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That's great news that yours is working well. Maybe there is hope for me and mine yet!
As you may recall me stating in an earlier post mine locks up after 1-10 hours of playing, requiring a forced power off (pressing and holding the power button for 5 or more seconds). Sony service said that they were sending me a new one (I got an RA from them a week and a half ago), but it's not here still.
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So are you liking the sound Dave? Mine really improved a lot by adding the Job Sweetcord to it.
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Tom, Yeah... I doubt I can get better sound for the money. I have not experimented with power cables yet... I currently have a couple of my own PCs out for demo and when they return I will try them out. I have PCs using my 14g upocc copper litz wire I use in the SCs you tried out in the tour. My PCs have the same sonic signature as the SCs, so very neutral, clean and dynamic. I have not forgot about the D4 IC I offered to let you try out and I could send you a PC too if you're interested. I will start a D4 IC tour, probably with the new silver/gold alloy speaker cables too. Not sure how to go about it though, I am thinking about just getting my own circle here as industry intros only allows one thread and I was just given a short vacation for breaking those rules. :icon_twisted:
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Tom, Yeah... I doubt I can get better sound for the money. I have not experimented with power cables yet... I currently have a couple of my own PCs out for demo and when they return I will try them out. I have PCs using my 14g upocc copper litz wire I use in the SCs you tried out in the tour. My PCs have the same sonic signature as the SCs, so very neutral, clean and dynamic. I have not forgot about the D4 IC I offered to let you try out and I could send you a PC too if you're interested. I will start a D4 IC tour, probably with the new silver/gold alloy speaker cables too. Not sure how to go about it though, I am thinking about just getting my own circle here as industry intros only allows one thread and I was just given a short vacation for breaking those rules. :icon_twisted:
Hi Dave, glad you're back and that your HAP-Z1ES may work out for you! Would be very interested in hearing this unit with your PC.........
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Hi Dave, glad you're back and that your HAP-Z1ES may work out for you! Would be very interested in hearing this unit with your PC.........
Thanks! Yup, happy now that everything's working. :thumb:
The power cables are going around, and I would be happy to send them to you to check out, will pm you when they are ready.
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Hi guys,
I was after some advice. I own the HAP-S1 ( as previously stated. ) I had to do a factory re-set a couple of months ago, literally just finished transferring all my music again....and now I have the prospect of having to do another factory re-set ! ( Which I want to avoid, if possible !! ? )
Basically, as of this morning, I had to change my wireless router. Connection was showing successful to the player, but the HAP Music transfer softwear won't work.
I've phoned Sony ( twice ) initially told to uninstall softwear & re-install. This hasn't solved the issue. From what I gather the IP Address may not be matching with laptop / HAP-S1 ?? I was told the only way to solve this issue, is to do another factory re-set. The thought & prospect of that is unbearable !! ( I've had the player since May, and all I've done is transfer my entire collection twice....I don't want to do it a third time ! )
I transferred nothing onto the internal HD. If I do a factory reset will I lose all the album cover info from my music files on my external HD ? ( as before )
Any advice would be much appreciated ! ( I love the sound of these players, WHEN I GET TO LISTEN !!..but technically, they're not worth it !! )
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Hi guys,
Basically, as of this morning, I had to change my wireless router. Connection was showing successful to the player, but the HAP Music transfer softwear won't work.
I am sorry if this seems a dumb question, but did you try plugging in directly instead of using the wireless? It sounds like the player is not picking up a new IP address from the router like it should.
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I am sorry if this seems a dumb question, but did you try plugging in directly instead of using the wireless? It sounds like the player is not picking up a new IP address from the router like it should.
May not be of any help, but I've noticed that with my HAP-Z1ES the transfer program sometimes (maybe always now) doesn't "find" the player. I have had to key in the IP address in the connection dialog box entry lately when I start it up.
Rob50, have you tried that? Sure beats transferring the tracks again. I have deliberately avoided transferring vary many of my tracks down due to how long it takes and the likelihood of having to repeat the operation as an ongoing affair. :(
Also, I don't think that doing a factory reset will clear what's on your external drive, but you will have to rescan it (which can take a fair amount of time as well).
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I am sorry if this seems a dumb question, but did you try plugging in directly instead of using the wireless? It sounds like the player is not picking up a new IP address from the router like it should.
No, I have never tried the wired connection. I guess this would show the IP address ? Excuse my ignorance ( I'm reluctant to using the wired connection, after I plugged the cable into the player, and had difficulty removing it ! )
During the afternoon, the HAP softwear has recognised my present files, and started to transfer, but each time it stops after a short time, with the error message indicating IP address problem.
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May not be of any help, but I've noticed that with my HAP-Z1ES the transfer program sometimes (maybe always now) doesn't "find" the player. I have had to key in the IP address in the connection dialog box entry lately when I start it up.
Rob50, have you tried that? Sure beats transferring the tracks again. I have deliberately avoided transferring vary many of my tracks down due to how long it takes and the likelihood of having to repeat the operation as an ongoing affair. :(
Also, I don't think that doing a factory reset will clear what's on your external drive, but you will have to rescan it (which can take a fair amount of time as well).
Thanks for your reply. As Gzerro suggests ( I think ! ) it may be a matter of finding out the IP address of my new wireless router, and it appears I can only find out this by wired connection ?
Inspite of what Sony say, I'm not convinced that a factory re-set will solve the problem ?? I'm not going down that route, twice is bad enough, let alone a third time !
At least at this point, I have transferred some files, and can hopefully transfer each new album I purchase from now on, even if I keep getting the error connection message.....
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Update :
I wired the player for the first time & found out the IP address, ( the only digit being different is the end one, i.e. ends in 4, instead of a 3. )
Decided to transfer, waited for what seemed an eternity, and got "can't transfer, device not ready".
Attempted wireless connection again and player shut down after 12 files....saying that device is not connected. ( obviously ! )
Tried connecting again....and have now got a completely different number altogether, below the player symbol ! Doesn't start with 192 e.t.c......number starts with 169....hoping that this now settles down !
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As I understand it, 169.x.x.x IP addresses show up when a device can't get a valid DHCP address from the DHCP server. In other words, there is some reason your Sony box is failing to get assigned a valid IP address from your DHCP server (probably in your router).
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As I understand it, 169.x.x.x IP addresses show up when a device can't get a valid DHCP address from the DHCP server. In other words, there is some reason your Sony box is failing to get assigned a valid IP address from your DHCP server (probably in your router).
Thanks for your feedback. I don't recall seeing anything about IP addresses when I initially set up HAP transfer 3 / 4 months ago.
As I said, I'm not convinced another factory re-set will solve the router recognition problem ? Sony pass off the "factory re-set solution" far too easily & often ! When I pointed out to them that there was a help section about IP addresses, and that it indicated that this was the problem, they still insisted on a factory re-set !
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I wouldn't expect doing a factory reset to help with the problem you are having. The unit comes setup to use DHCP to acquire an IP address automatically from your network's DHCP server (usually in your router). Since you wound up with a 169.x.x.x IP address is appears that that has failed. There is a setting to change from using DHCP to a static IP address, but it doesn't sound like that's your problem either.
I suspect that you are having some kind of connectivity problems. That your HAP box isn't able to get a DHCP address suggests that it can't communicate with your DHCP server. I have no idea what the topology of your network is, but you'd probably do well to simplify it as much as you can as a test to see if you can get the HAP back online.
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Thanks, I'm not sure what to try next, to be honest ? I certainly don't think it would be worth wile ringing Sony again.
( I'm surprised wired connection did not work....may try again tomorrow....)
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Transfer is much faster with a wired connection, so if possible you should try to go that route.
In my case, I have to disenable wireless connection in my computer before the Sony can be recognized(set wifi to "off").
Perhaps you should try this.
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Internet radio keeps saying unavailable at my house for the last four days, is anyone else having this problem?
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Internet radio keeps saying unavailable at my house, is anyone else having this problem?
I've always used a wired connection when running the Sony transfer program (on a GigE network) and still find it painfully slow. Transferring the ~2700 tracks that I last had to transfer down (due to replacing my original broken unit) took about 16 hours to do the transfer plus the directory scan.
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Hey. If you have a wireless router or wired I guess it doesn't matter really and a smart phone just download fing on ur phone then turn on ur wireless on ur phone then connect to your network then open fing up scan ur network and it will tell you ever ip address on it including ur router ip address.
If other devices can connect to the router then ur router is working fine.
Also make sure the sony is set to obtain ip automatically.
If that does not work the set it statically . Look at all of the ip addresses and just change the last number to one that is not used.
If these options do not work then do a factory default of first birthday.
Let us know how u make out.
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Five days now and still no internet radio. :scratch:
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Five days now and still no internet radio. :scratch:
Have you tried powering it down then unplugging it for a while? When you unplug it other stuff turns off that's normally always on. The wireless on mine just decided to stop working recently, and unplugging it seemed to reset whatever needed to be reset for it to work again.
These things sound great, but are not perfect... :scratch:
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Hey. If you have a wireless router or wired I guess it doesn't matter really and a smart phone just download fing on ur phone then turn on ur wireless on ur phone then connect to your network then open fing up scan ur network and it will tell you ever ip address on it including ur router ip address.
If other devices can connect to the router then ur router is working fine.
Also make sure the sony is set to obtain ip automatically.
If that does not work the set it statically . Look at all of the ip addresses and just change the last number to one that is not used.
If these options do not work then do a factory default of first birthday.
Let us know how u make out.
Thanks for your advice / feedback.....I actually got my old modem / router to work.....thank God !! It was a nightmare with the new router. HAP transfer just kept shutting down, even when I typed in the correct IP address, according to what was displayed, when the player was wired.
I assume that the problem was that the IP addresses weren't matching with my laptop ?? So confusing !! Strangely, after setting up my old modem / router, the IP address changed the second day, from an end digit of 1 to 0. I thought, "here we go again", especially when I lost connection once ! Thankfully it's been working fine, since.
Does anyone know if it's possible to remove files that did not transfer correctly, i.e. "Unplayable content. ( Not supported )
I don't have a Smart phone....just praying, I don't ever have to use another router, ever again !!
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Have you tried powering it down then unplugging it for a while? When you unplug it other stuff turns off that's normally always on. The wireless on mine just decided to stop working recently, and unplugging it seemed to reset whatever needed to be reset for it to work again.
These things sound great, but are not perfect... :scratch:
I left it unplugged last night, still does not work. :evil:
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Thanks for your advice / feedback.....I actually got my old modem / router to work.....thank God !! It was a nightmare with the new router. HAP transfer just kept shutting down, even when I typed in the correct IP address, according to what was displayed, when the player was wired.
I assume that the problem was that the IP addresses weren't matching with my laptop ?? So confusing !! Strangely, after setting up my old modem / router, the IP address changed the second day, from an end digit of 1 to 0. I thought, "here we go again", especially when I lost connection once ! Thankfully it's been working fine, since.
Glad you got it working again. I'd be tempted to ditch that new router.
Does anyone know if it's possible to remove files that did not transfer correctly, i.e. "Unplayable content. ( Not supported )
I don't have a Smart phone....just praying, I don't ever have to use another router, ever again !!
There's a selection to delete a track somewhere in the menus (sorry I can't be more specific, I don't recall exactly where and I'm not near my unit right now)
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Glad you got it working again. I'd be tempted to ditch that new router.
There's a selection to delete a track somewhere in the menus (sorry I can't be more specific, I don't recall exactly where and I'm not near my unit right now)
Thanks, i'm just relieved I got my old router to work ! A track that doesn't transfer properly, i.e. shows artist info, e.t.c. but is not playable, is not possible to remove, unless you do a factory re-set, I believe ? ( Which happened quite a few times during the router fiasco. ) I think it's just a bit of an OCD thing for me, not being able to remove these non playable files from the list.
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Thanks, i'm just relieved I got my old router to work ! A track that doesn't transfer properly, i.e. shows artist info, e.t.c. but is not playable, is not possible to remove, unless you do a factory re-set, I believe ? ( Which happened quite a few times during the router fiasco. ) I think it's just a bit of an OCD thing for me, not being able to remove these non playable files from the list.
Well, I have not tried to remove unplayable files. Seems strange that they wouldn't allow that. The unplayable ones are the ones a person would most often want to remove (like multichannel files that it refuses to play).
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I think you need the remote app to delete... hold your finger on the track or album you want to erase and after a second a menu will pop up with the delete option.
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Frustrated, I contacted Sony support about the internet radio last night. Info was, there is a communication problem between Sony and vtuner, but should be resolved permently soon.
I sure hope so.
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I think you need the remote app to delete... hold your finger on the track or album you want to erase and after a second a menu will pop up with the delete option.
I don't have an android device.
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I don't have an android device.
You might want to go buy a simple tablet, not having the remote app would be a huge issue for me. And the remote app does things you can't do on the front panel.
I got a tablet and am actually glad I did, it's handy! My laptop is big and has a lot of fan noise, the tablet is nice to use for a lot of things. I even got a little bluetooth keyboard for $30, it's like a mini-laptop with the keyboard.
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I don't have an android device.
Any of the IPad models will also work
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Any of the IPad models will also work
Hardly in the inexpensive category, though. If you don't already have/use an iPad I wouldn't buy one for this. :)
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I bought a Nexus 7 for mine. It works well. A bigger screen would be better, but for the price I think it is a good tablet and very handy for the HAP.
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I bought a Nexus 7 for mine. It works well. A bigger screen would be better, but for the price I think it is a good tablet and very handy for the HAP.
Actually, I have a Nexus 7 and a Nexus 10 and have tried/used both. There are some things about the larger tablet that I liked, but it just felt too big for how I use the device to control and monitor what's going on with the Sony. I must confess, though, that I'm no particular fan of any of my tablets or smartphone. Could be an age/profession thing with me (I've been in software development for nearly 50 years now). I like 'real' computers. :)
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Hardly in the inexpensive category, though. If you don't already have/use an iPad I wouldn't buy one for this. :)
I have to agree. I certainly don't want to spend £400 on an ipad, just for this issue. I could buy a cheaper tablet, but then, you get what you pay for !
So unless my two year old laptop goes kaput, I don't think i'll be buying one. I find it annoying that many websites / technologies, are now geared towards android devices / apps e.t.c. which isn't any good to the pc / laptop user !
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I continue to be impressed by the ease of use and sound quality of the HAP-Z1ES. The automatic downloading of new content from my computer's music library surprises me everytime. I recently installed a Maestro receptacle in my listening room and upgraded my power cord on the HAP-Z1ES to a 14 gauge ZenWave Audio. The changes were easily heard and added another level of refinement to the sound. I've also tried a number of isolation products with the HAP-Z1ES and have settled on Herbie IsoCups for now. I'd enjoy hearing from others who have used various isolation feet with their HAP-Z1ES as to what they have decided on.
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I have to agree. I certainly don't want to spend £400 on an ipad, just for this issue. I could buy a cheaper tablet, but then, you get what you pay for !
So unless my two year old laptop goes kaput, I don't think i'll be buying one. I find it annoying that many websites / technologies, are now geared towards android devices / apps e.t.c. which isn't any good to the pc / laptop user !
As diversified a Company as Sony is, they probably could have offered one of their Vaio tablets (at a discount)
as an option.
Heh,he,he...yes the IPads are more $$ than other tablets & a lot of people seem to already have them.,
that was the only reason I made the comment. I have one & like it , & it has numerous apps to control
multiple electronic items... I really was'nt suggesting that you buy one to use specifically as a dedicated
HAP remote.
(Please note; the arrangement of text in this posting ( & several of my other previous postings)
is not how it appeared when I typed it. I'm sure that I need to change a setting or two to fix these problem,
but I never learned how to "type"... My apologies !)
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I continue to be impressed by the ease of use and sound quality of the HAP-Z1ES. The automatic downloading of new content from my computer's music library surprises me everytime. I recently installed a Maestro receptacle in my listening room and upgraded my power cord on the HAP-Z1ES to a 14 gauge ZenWave Audio. The changes were easily heard and added another level of refinement to the sound. I've also tried a number of isolation products with the HAP-Z1ES and have settled on Herbie IsoCups for now. I'd enjoy hearing from others who have used various isolation feet with their HAP-Z1ES as to what they have decided on.
Like you, I'm impressed with the sound quality of the HAP-Z1ES (though I wish it had come with HDMI output and supported multichannel tracks). However, I can't say that I'm at all impressed with the transfer program. For those of us with large libraries (I have over 37,000 tracks and counting) that reside on a NAS box I have found it to be a real pain. The recent update to the firmware on the HAP and the transfer program stopped it from working with SMB shares (how my windows system accesses the tracks). It spends all the time (and apparently really transfers the bits) but nothing ever arrives on the HAP-Z1ES. So now, to do the transfer I have to first copy all of the tracks from the NAS box to a local disk on the Windows system.
Oh, and don't try to copy that many tracks to the HAP-Z1ES (37,000 in my case). When I attempted to do that when first getting the HAP-Z1ES it took well over a week and nothing would play once it finally finished. This may have been due to a problem with my first unit (since replaced), but I'm reluctant to retry the experiment and now I have only transferred a relatively small subset (about 2700) of the tracks.
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I think it would be tough or impossible to find a computer / DAC combination for the same price that would outperform the Sony, it really is a great source.
The software isn't perfect but that can be improved on. I have about 18,000 tracks on it, the transfer was slow but it worked.
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However, I can't say that I'm at all impressed with the transfer program. For those of us with large libraries (I have over 37,000 tracks and counting) that reside on a NAS box I have found it to be a real pain.
At $1 a track you have over $37,000 invested in your music library! Based on that kind of investment, if the HAP-Z1ES can't handle it I would just sell it! Stick with your NAS box, external DAC, computer, USB cables , etc. Only makes sense.
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At $1 a track you have over $37,000 invested in your music library! Based on that kind of investment, if the HAP-Z1ES can't handle it I would just sell it! Stick with your NAS box, external DAC, computer, USB cables , etc. Only makes sense.
Well, many of those 37,000 tracks are from my 31 year CD collection. So, although they represent a large investment, spread out over a that long of period it doesn't seem so bad. :lol:
I do have a number of other ways to listen to all/any of the 37.000 tracks, and I often use them. I do still listen to the HAP-Z1ES as well. I've been transferring all of the hi-res downloads that I've been getting to it, so it tends to have mostly the new acquisitions. Besides, I'm something of a gadget freak; and it is, afterall, another gadget to play with.
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Heh,he,he...yes the IPads are more $$ than other tablets & a lot of people seem to already have them.,
that was the only reason I made the comment. I have one & like it , & it has numerous apps to control
multiple electronic items... I really was'nt suggesting that you buy one to use specifically as a dedicated
HAP remote.
Yes, appreciate & understand what you were saying. I would like an ipad, and I'm sure there's a possibility I may buy one at some point. I could imagine the app being quite addictive to use....stopping you from actually listening to what's on the player ! lol
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Like you, I'm impressed with the sound quality of the HAP-Z1ES (though I wish it had come with HDMI output and supported multichannel tracks).
Oh, and don't try to copy that many tracks to the HAP-Z1ES (37,000 in my case).
That's a trick that Sony missed out on with these players. I hope they haven't completely given up on multichannel ??
I thought 11.000 ( transferred twice ! ) was a nightmare !! Just imagine how many of this number we have rarely listened to ! ? It's nice to have all your music stored on one box though....and because of this, it encourages you to listen to those rarely listened to albums, that you have in your collection.
The real beauty of course, is being able to listen to your CD collection, in ( converted ) DSD, with these sonically impressive players !
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That's a trick that Sony missed out on with these players. I hope they haven't completely given up on multichannel ??
I thought 11.000 ( transferred twice ! ) was a nightmare !! Just imagine how many of this number we have rarely listened to ! ? It's nice to have all your music stored on one box though....and because of this, it encourages you to listen to those rarely listened to albums, that you have in your collection.
The real beauty of course, is being able to listen to your CD collection, in ( converted ) DSD, with these sonically impressive players !
When I want to listen to any (or all, if I had enough time) of my 37,000 tracks, I use the DLNA server on my NAS box, through my Yamaha CX-A5000 prepro. The advantage to doing that is that I don't have to bother with the buggy Sony transfer program (or wait for it to do its thing). I do like the Sensme feature of the HAP box though. Nothing else that I have can do what it does. I can also use my Oppo BDP-103D and have to when I want to listen to a multichannel recording (it's the only way I have to listen to multichannel DSD tracks).
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Yes, appreciate & understand what you were saying. I would like an ipad, and I'm sure there's a possibility I may buy one at some point. I could imagine the app being quite addictive to use....stopping you from actually listening to what's on the player ! lol
Well, the actual beauty of using any tablet is that once you've selected any player function you can close the app & move on to any number
of other non- music player activities (literally at "your finger tips".)
Should you decide to make some music selection or other player change all you have to do is reverse the process. (As funny as this might sound I try to make whatever I do on my IPad the "background"activity or turn it off if it becomes the distraction)
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Well, the actual beauty of using any tablet is that once you've selected any player function you can close the app & move on to any number
of other non- music player activities (literally at "your finger tips".)
Should you decide to make some music selection or other player change all you have to do is reverse the process. (As funny as this might sound I try to make whatever I do on my IPad the "background"activity or turn it off if it becomes the distraction)
Thanks for info....perhaps after Christmas....I may buy one ?
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I continue to be impressed by the ease of use and sound quality of the HAP-Z1ES. The automatic downloading of new content from my computer's music library surprises me everytime. I recently installed a Maestro receptacle in my listening room and upgraded my power cord on the HAP-Z1ES to a 14 gauge ZenWave Audio. The changes were easily heard and added another level of refinement to the sound. I've also tried a number of isolation products with the HAP-Z1ES and have settled on Herbie IsoCups for now. I'd enjoy hearing from others who have used various isolation feet with their HAP-Z1ES as to what they have decided on.
No one has tried other types of isolation feet on this unit? How about power cords? :scratch:
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After doing some searching here on the net, Sony owners all over the world are complaining about the loss of the internet radio since Sept. 5. Some are saying this is probably from money issues. This report does not look very good for Sony.
Sony expects to lose more than $2 billion
http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/17/investing/sony-loss/
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No one has tried other types of isolation feet on this unit? How about power cords? :scratch:
I have! :wink:
But you already know which PC I'm using and everyone else can probably guess :lol: The stock Sony footers are pretty good... better than typical cones... but the Herbies isocups with quartz balls are a little better. The balls used do subtly change the sound, pretty cool...
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No one has tried other types of isolation feet on this unit? How about power cords? :scratch:
I amusing a Job Sweetcord with mine. That made the sound really sweet. :)
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Looks like vtuner is toast for now...
https://us.en.kb.sony.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/50266
Sony :nono:
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For the amount of money it appears people have in their music libraries (based on the number of tracks people say they have we are talking tens of thousands of dollars) its seems reasonable to put a few hundred dollars into an upgraded power cord and upgraded footers. Like Dave, I've been messing around with different footers, and the Herbies seem to notch-out a little better sound, but I'm still looking/experimenting with different footers/isolation platforms. I assume people are interested so I'll report back on that periodically.
I amusing a Job Sweetcord with mine. That made the sound really sweet. :)
Thanks OzarkTom. I looked-up the Job Sweetcord. This is all I can find:
"Our new JOB 225 is so accurate and transparent that first users immediately reported their trial of various Powercords were making a big change in its sound quality. In order to allow the amplifier to be used at its maximum without a too costly exotic powercord we address the demand using the famous Goldmund Powercord they allowed us to copy. The sweetcord incorporates the smallest AC-Curator circuit ever achieved and share with its prestigious parent the special wire made for Goldmund by a well-kept-secret factory since 1987. With the standard length of 8'5" and Medical grade (US only) plug, the Sweetcord is a wonderful addition to the JOB amplifiers, and reasonable cost audio device, as everything made by JOB."
Seems interesting. Do you know what gauge and type of wire it uses? I assume you have a Job power amp so you bought one of these for the HAP-Z1ES? Did you try any other power cords?
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For the amount of money it appears people have in their music libraries (based on the number of tracks people say they have we are talking tens of thousands of dollars) its seems reasonable to put a few hundred dollars into an upgraded power cord and upgraded footers. Like Dave, I've been messing around with different footers, and the Herbies seem to notch-out a little better sound, but I'm still looking/experimenting with different footers/isolation platforms. I assume people are interested so I'll report back on that periodically.
Thanks OzarkTom. I looked-up the Job Sweetcord. This is all I can find:
"Our new JOB 225 is so accurate and transparent that first users immediately reported their trial of various Powercords were making a big change in its sound quality. In order to allow the amplifier to be used at its maximum without a too costly exotic powercord we address the demand using the famous Goldmund Powercord they allowed us to copy. The sweetcord incorporates the smallest AC-Curator circuit ever achieved and share with its prestigious parent the special wire made for Goldmund by a well-kept-secret factory since 1987. With the standard length of 8'5" and Medical grade (US only) plug, the Sweetcord is a wonderful addition to the JOB amplifiers, and reasonable cost audio device, as everything made by JOB."
Seems interesting. Do you know what gauge and type of wire it uses? I assume you have a Job power amp so you bought one of these for the HAP-Z1ES? Did you try any other power cords?
I'm one of those with 10s of thousands of tracks (though not on my HAP-Z1ES) and see no value in upgraded power cords or isolation feet. Back in the day when I used turntables and LPs, isolation feet made sense due to the vibration affecting the cartridge as it tracked the grooves. And I suppose it makes some sense with tube gear (that I gladly discarded almost 50 years ago) due to the various elements of the tube being affected by the vibration. But, unless you can shake the HAP enough to cause disk errors (that would be some vibration, an earthquake maybe or dropping it on the floor), I don't see it as worthwhile.
As for power cords, if I was to start worrying about the gauge and type of wire it used I'd then have to also worry about all the wiring in my house and clear back to the power station. Not gonna do that. :roll:
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I'm one of those with 10s of thousands of tracks (though not on my HAP-Z1ES) and see no value in upgraded power cords or isolation feet. Back in the day when I used turntables and LPs, isolation feet made sense due to the vibration affecting the cartridge as it tracked the grooves. And I suppose it makes some sense with tube gear (that I gladly discarded almost 50 years ago) due to the various elements of the tube being affected by the vibration. But, unless you can shake the HAP enough to cause disk errors (that would be some vibration, an earthquake maybe or dropping it on the floor), I don't see it as worthwhile.
As for power cords, if I was to start worrying about the gauge and type of wire it used I'd then have to also worry about all the wiring in my house and clear back to the power station. Not gonna do that. :roll:
While I don't think that the "Beefier the Better" approach better to power chords does much more than allow more available current to your components (which can head off "clipping" which can cause momentary distortion) I think the wire geometry used in the chord can
possibly "filter out"some" of the noise that sits in power line.
While your system's "noise floor" may be perfectly satisfactory for you, it may not be for someone else. The noise floor extends below what you think you can hear & the crazy thing about it is you really don't realize it was'nt low enough until you've lowered it. It becomes
noticeable when you start hearing "into" recordings you thought you knew sounded like "like the back of your hand". They have more things (some not necessarily to your liking,but there) going on in them then you realized. (Digital recordings can be a lot more detailed than we thought, they just have more "hash" riding in them than Analog did (other than tape machines) )
Quite seriously, power chords alone won't bring you this far, but they're a start. & like everything else in life some are better than others
in your particular system.
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Ok, we are talking here about a device that is spec'd at 35 watts. At 120 volts that's about .3 amps. Now, 18 ga copper wire (typical "lamp cord") is rated at 10 amps, just about 30 times what this thing draws. I'm not going to bother to calculate the voltage drop over the, maybe, 6 foot long cord but I doubt that it is even a volt. This isn't a power amp (my Outlaw Audio 7900 requires two 15amp circuits connected to it) so I just don't see the point.
As for noise floor, since I can put my ear directly against the speakers and hear nothing and the volume is at a reasonable (loud) level when there's nothing playing, I'm not going to worry about that either.
However, I really should shut up. I consider this to be boarderline religion and I usually make it point to avoid discussions of religion. :)
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While I don't think that the "Beefier the Better" approach better to power chords does much more than allow more available current to your components (which can head off "clipping" which can cause momentary distortion)......
Not sure where you heard this, but a power cord (regardless of "beefiness") will not provide more available current, and thus will not head off clipping in an amplifier (assuming you're replacing the power cord appropriately provided by the manufacturer). And even if a cord could somehow provide more current, the amp's power supply will still regulate it, the same way it would with the stock cord. Filtering is another topic entirely.
Anyway.....sorry for further derailing the thread. I just couldn't let this pass. I'm not a "believer" or "non-believer." Everyone is entitled to their own experiences, but there are some things that aren't really debatable.
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"Oops" Srewed that one up ! However, I will stick to what said about "noise floor"
& probably the tremendous amt of people who pay it no mind (Heh, heh heh ,& once again my apology
for trying to wing it on the power chord info) (I guess I should abandon my plans to try to sell the Hoover Dam, huh ?)
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"Oops" Srewed that one up ! However, I will stick to what said about "noise floor"
& probably the tremendous amt of people who pay it no mind (Heh, heh heh ,& once again my apology
for trying to wing it on the power chord info) (I guess I should abandon my plans to try to sell the Hoover Dam, huh ?)
It's all good. And your non-defensive attitude is very welcome here. When people let their guards down, they also have a tendency to learn new things........which is always a good thing. :thumb:
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"Oops" Srewed that one up ! However, I will stick to what said about "noise floor"
& probably the tremendous amt of people who pay it no mind (Heh, heh heh ,& once again my apology
for trying to wing it on the power chord info) (I guess I should abandon my plans to try to sell the Hoover Dam, huh ?)
This begs a question in my mind. Is anyone hearing any noise with the HAP-Z1ES? I haven't, but was wondering if I was simply one of the lucky ones?
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Seems interesting. Do you know what gauge and type of wire it uses? I assume you have a Job power amp so you bought one of these for the HAP-Z1ES? Did you try any other power cords?
I am not sure on the guage, but it is smaller than some other cords I have used. I bought the Sweetcord used, but I only have one. Since the Sony is before the amp, I decided to first try it there. My system was sounding a little too dry, the sweetcord corrected that up. Now it is very magical and liquid sounding. I need to buy another to use with my Job amp.
I have not tried these on the Sony yet, but for smaller components drum moon gel pads works the best. One set is $6.99 but you would need 2-4 sets to work with the Sony because of the size. My audio buddy Rex and I also tried Stillpoints and Herbies, and the moon gels sounds the best.
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This begs a question in my mind. Is anyone hearing any noise with the HAP-Z1ES? I haven't, but was wondering if I was simply one of the lucky ones?
Please go back & read the paragraph I wrote about what a "noise floor" is & the kind of noise I'm referring
to as you seem to not understand what I was talking about
While you can't hear the type of noise I'm talking about , neither can you hear "into" (if the type of recording
warranted this type of scrutiny) all the possible micro level information that is on recording regardless of how
good the recording sounds. Guess what , a lot of the recordings that everyone have may be better than they
think they are. There is noise faint & as imperceptible be recognized as noise that is masking micro detail
that is'nt generated by the player.
Once again like I mentioned a low noise floor may not make any difference depending on your listening
habits & choice of listening material. It's a little humorous that you were listening to try to hear what
I was referring to, unless you are powerful Human stethoscope you could end up listening for a very long
time.
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I am not sure on the guage, but it is smaller than some other cords I have used. I bought the Sweetcord used, but I only have one. Since the Sony is before the amp, I decided to first try it there. My system was sounding a little too dry, the sweetcord corrected that up. Now it is very magical and liquid sounding. I need to buy another to use with my Job amp.
I have not tried these on the Sony yet, but for smaller components drum moon gel pads works the best. One set is $6.99 but you would need 2-4 sets to work with the Sony because of the size. My audio buddy Rex and I also tried Stillpoints and Herbies, and the moon gels sounds the best.
Great info! I'll definitely check out the drum moon gel pads. I assume you're talking about this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums-percussion/rtom-moongel-percussion-dampening-gels I'm also going to try a Bright Star Audio isolation platform that a friend will let me borrow. The platform has an inflatable rubber tube inside of it so you can adjust the amount of "air-cushoning" there is. He uses it with his DAC with very good results.
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Please go back & read the paragraph I wrote about what a "noise floor" is & the kind of noise I'm referring
to as you seem to not understand what I was talking about
While you can't hear the type of noise I'm talking about , neither can you hear "into" (if the type of recording
warranted this type of scrutiny) all the possible micro level information that is on recording regardless of how
good the recording sounds. Guess what , a lot of the recordings that everyone have may be better than they
think they are. There is noise faint & as imperceptible be recognized as noise that is masking micro detail
that is'nt generated by the player.
Once again like I mentioned a low noise floor may not make any difference depending on your listening
habits & choice of listening material. It's a little humorous that you were listening to try to hear what
I was referring to, unless you are powerful Human stethoscope you could end up listening for a very long
time.
Well I never said that I was listening to hear noise, but rather that I didn't hear any noise. So what sort of affect to you believe this reduced noise floor would cause. If not noise...what?
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Well I never said that I was listening to hear noise, but rather that I didn't hear any noise. So what sort of affect to you believe this reduced noise floor would cause. If not noise...what?
The effect of a reduced "noise floor" is that there "may" be some more of the small details in the background
of whatever recording you happen to be listening to may start showing up in any number of recordings, making recordings sound less like recordings & more like live music making
& like I've said this "micro detail" may or may not even be present for entire genres of musical recordings that
are'nt heavily acoustic music based .
i do apologize if I offended you by by making the comment that I found it humorous that you were listening
for the effects I was talking about. The truth is you could be at this hobby for many years & not come across any mention of any of this , until 1 day you come across something in a recording & then you think "this must be what that "Nut" was talking about (or not)
(Hope this clears somethings up; If not don't worry about it, the HAP - Z1ES is a great sounding player whether or not this is part of the equation) (We good now?)
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I'll definitely check out the drum moon gel pads. I assume you're talking about this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums-percussion/rtom-moongel-percussion-dampening-gels I'm also going to try a Bright Star Audio isolation platform that a friend will let me borrow.
Just a quick update. I've now tried the gel drum pads and I agree they are very effective under the HAP-Z1ES and a great value! The Bright Star Audio isolation platform used in conjunction with either the Herbies IsoCups or gel drum pads solidified the bass even more and took just a slight edge off of the lower treble/upper midrange. At this point, I prefer the gel drum pads but I have a number of other isolation products I'm going to try with the Bright Star platform.
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I will add that you can probably find a "Herbie's" item that works for just about any isolation / vibration reduction application you can think of , (& here's the kicker), at a "real world" price.
I do have one complaint though . I feel that he should have named it "Steve's Audio Lab"
( That has a better "ring" to it, don't you think ; & being part of the "Steve" Club I think he's required to do
that anyway, according to the handbook)
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The effect of a reduced "noise floor" is that there "may" be some more of the small details in the background
of whatever recording you happen to be listening to may start showing up in any number of recordings, making recordings sound less like recordings & more like live music making
& like I've said this "micro detail" may or may not even be present for entire genres of musical recordings that
are'nt heavily acoustic music based .
i do apologize if I offended you by by making the comment that I found it humorous that you were listening
for the effects I was talking about. The truth is you could be at this hobby for many years & not come across any mention of any of this , until 1 day you come across something in a recording & then you think "this must be what that "Nut" was talking about (or not)
(Hope this clears somethings up; If not don't worry about it, the HAP - Z1ES is a great sounding player whether or not this is part of the equation) (We good now?)
Sure. I was just not understanding where you were going. I listen to lots of hirez acoustic music (both flac and dsd) on my HAP-Z1ES (I gave up trying to transfer the 35,000 or so ripped CD tracks to it) and have to say that I too am very impressed with the sound. I also stream some of the same tracks through my Oppo BDP-103D and my Yamaha CX-A5000 prepro for listening, but must say I prefer using the Sony box. In addition to enjoying the SenseMe selection and shuffling of the tracks, there's is also some audible quality that I prefer. I'm no good at putting words to sound differences unless they are extreme (which isn't the case). All I can say is that the HAP-Z1ES is the box I most often turn on to listen to. :)
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vTuner appears to be working again, be sure to re-boot...
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vTuner appears to be working again, be sure to re-boot...
:thumb:
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ABC Lounge Radio is now back and wife and I are enjoying it. :D
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Sweet! Vtuner! :thumb:
My friends, I think we have a very nice box. 8)
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I'm not going to try to explain this or say much more than if you own a Sony HAP-Z1ES you have got to try a Synergistic Research base with it. If not for the sonics then for the visual appeal - the size and metal finish are almost exactly the same as the HAP-Z1ES.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106667)
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For all who may not have seen this Dave of ZenWave Audio is reporting he found out at RMAF 2014:
"Sony Rooms, the big speakers with a Pass amp, the bookshelf speakers with the Sony amp, both rooms have the excellent HAP-Z1ES music server. They announced an exciting upgrade to the firmware, the USB port will be able to accept a hard drive that is NOT formatted especially for the Sony, so a friend can bring their hard drive over, plug it into the Sony's USB port and play music, the lengthy transfer process is no longer required for outboard hard drives!"
Obviously, this is great news!!
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My HAP-Z1ES updated its firmware this morning. I haven't noticed anything different, but then I haven't had much time to really check it out. The app on my Nexus 7 updated first and then refused to work with the previous firmware on the HAP-Z1ES, forcing me to do the update on it as well.
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Updating now...
This is what the Sony website says are improved:
Name: Firmware update v13741R for HAP-S1 / HAP-Z1ES
Date released: 16-10-2014
Benefits and improvements:
Support FAT External HDD
Support Jacket picture display on track list for Playlists and Favorites
Support 32bit WAV playback
Support DSD gapless playback
Support manual edit for SensMe channels
Add Oversampling setting to select Normal/Precision mode (only for HAP-Z1ES)
Caution: If you use HDD Audio Remote, you need to update HDD Audio Remote too
Note: The Android app of new HDD Audio remote supports “Music Transfer” feature, while due OS limition the iOS app does not
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lol....I know I am probably imagining this, but it seems my system is a tad bit more liquid and emotional sounding after this latest update. :scratch:
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Hmm, been working all day so I haven't listened but what you're describing is all the HAP needs to be pretty much perfect.
It's pretty cool to get automatic updates, although now that it can read any HDD a front USB port would be nice... :green:
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lol....I know I am probably imagining this, but it seems my system is a tad bit more liquid and emotional sounding after this latest update. :scratch:
I gotta say, I thought/still think something has changed too. My first thought was slightly more resolution, it also seems a little more dynamic. Like you, it could be strictly my audiophile psychosis at work. :roll: I set the new oversampling setting to "Precision"...I can't say that made any difference.
A significant update and Vtuner works...Like I wrote a few days ago, nice box... I like. :thumb:
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Quick question on editing. My import went fine, but about 10% of the albums broke in two, meaning half the songs listed in one version, half in the other. Still recognizes the album, but it's like it made a double album. Ergo, I can't play the complete album.
Question for you owners (mine is a week old): is there an easy way to do batch editing? Currently I'm doing it album by album via the app, via 'edit music info', typing needed changes, then 'apply to all tracks.' Note in order to edit I have to start playing a track from the affected album. It's tedious. One at a time.
Is there an easier way? Thanks for any tips.
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May have a solution: MusicBrainz Picard. Retagging everything, going to reload it all again. Amazing program that one is.
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Did a few hours listening with the updated firmware and I agree it refines the sound even more. I must say the HAP-Z1ES has turned out to be an excellent sounding digital source.
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Has anyone experienced any problems with the display screen ? My HAP-S1 now has a white vertical thin horizontal line exactly half way down, that goes right across the screen. Really annoying !!
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Has anyone experienced any problems with the display screen ?
Nope.
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I had the horizontal white line issue crop up several months ago. At the Sony ES Support tech's request, I sent my unit in to the Laredo service center. I waited over a month for their investigation into the issue. I never received an explanation as to the actual fault involved, but they decided to ship me a brand-new unit - which (thankfully) has operated perfectly since early August.
The funny thing is, that aside from this horizontal line appearing, my original unit never malfunctioned in any other way. At the time I contacted Sony support, they had not heard of any other cases of this anomaly. The issue mentioned in this thread is now the 2nd other Z1 unit I have read of with the "white line" - another was from a UK-based owner. I have to assume it is a fairly rare hardware problem.
Merko
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I had the horizontal white line issue crop up several months ago. At the Sony ES Support tech's request, I sent my unit in to the Laredo service center. I waited over a month for their investigation into the issue. I never received an explanation as to the actual fault involved, but they decided to ship me a brand-new unit - which (thankfully) has operated perfectly since early August.
The funny thing is, that aside from this horizontal line appearing, my original unit never malfunctioned in any other way. At the time I contacted Sony support, they had not heard of any other cases of this anomaly. The issue mentioned in this thread is now the 2nd other Z1 unit I have read of with the "white line" - another was from a UK-based owner. I have to assume it is a fairly rare hardware problem.
Merko
Thanks for your reply. Even though it's annoying, I don't want the hassle of sending the unit back. I love the sound of these players, ( I rarely listen to music, in any other way / form now. ) but the problems I've had are a pain !
One day, I wouldn't be surprised if I had no choice but to send it back ? I've bought lots of Sony products over the years, and never really had a problem with any of them. Ironic, that one of the best products they've produced, has faults, bugs, e.t.c.
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Hey all... I'm intrigued by this piece of equipment and considering it as a replacement for my Squeezebox / external DAC.. I have 50,000 files in my collection, most of which are FLAC which I'm storing on a NAS and haven't made the jump to HiRez yet... still researching and learning all I can before I make any decisions... Thanks for all the posts.
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just read this on Sony's website:
smooth operation guaranteed up to 20,000 tracks
So what happens after 20K tracks??? non-smooth operation? Can anyone verify that it operates A-OK with more than 20K tracks loaded?
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Looking for help if anyone can provide it.
My harddrive crashed and I had to replace it on my computer (not the HAP Z1) however as a result I've lost the transferred files log. When I go to sync, it clearly wants to re-transfer and ultimately leave duplicates of all my files.
i can of course clear the HD of the HAP Z1 but would prefer not to. Does anyone know if there is a way to re-create the transferred files log, or at least avoid the transfer software from trying to transfer everything?
Thanks.
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You can simply turn auto transfer off, or change the folder that it transfers from to a new empty folder that you'd only put files in that you want transferred.
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Does anyone know what op amps are used in this player?
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New firmware released today adds support for TuneIn Radio.
Name: Firmware update v14957R for HAP-S1 / HAP-Z1ES
Date released: 14-04-2015
Benefits and improvements:
Supports TuneIn internet radio service.
Note: If you are using HDD Audio Remote, you need to update the HDD Audio Remote too.
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Any chance anyone has compared this Sony to a computer based system with Auralic Vega DAC?
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Any chance anyone has compared this Sony to a computer based system with Auralic Vega DAC?
Yes... in my system, which is single ended, they are very comparable. The Sony had a more solid state sound but since then the firmware updates have made it sound more natural. I think the Sony is one of the best values for a digital source available.
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Thanks for the input Dave!!! It's a tempting option, although with about 73,000 songs in my library, I'm not sure if it would work.
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Does anyone know how to actually get a hold of Sony ES support via the phone? I've tried e-mail for 3 days now and it's like a monkey F-ing a football. Calling I get bounced around.
One of my unbalanced outputs quit working. The balanced works, so I am OK but wanted to at least talk to them about repair options.
Love the sound of this player though.
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Yes I read the reviews on Amazon, good and bad and "bad" reviews did not really affected my decision to buy HATZ1ES. After two weeks of listening I would do it again. What I wanted was a great SQ at reasonable price, and the shortest path possible between the music store and DAC - no USB, no SPDIF, no related cables etc..What I liked the most was the focus on sound, with limited other features. Most of the complains, at least on Amazon were:
1. Internet radio not working - I did not care about this part but it is actually working great and now I like it a lot
2. transfer of existing music files - yes it is slow but it is one time shot, and all updates to your PC music store are processed quickly
3. The sync app and remote sync app is pretty basic but it works and the Android remote is great
4. SQ not being better than on Cambridge DAC - this one worried me a bit but the reviews of SQ were still very good. I have Cambridge DACMagic100 - it is not bad but it does not compare to Sony
Some things I do not like:
1. HDD is not SDD - the unit is pretty silent but from the short distance when music is not playing you can HHD just slightly. That can be eliminated by replacing HDD and you can read how on Computer Audiophiles - they had to compromise somewhere to deliver this price
2. I would still eliminate Internet streamer - it would make it simpler and cleaner and maybe they could build it with SDD
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I'm wondering if there is a way to make suggestions to Sony on this player. I would love an ability to simply have a "random play" by artist and genre. Seems like it would be a simply enough firmware upgrade.
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I'm sure someone else will chime in here, but if you are using the HDD sony remote app, I think you may be able to go into the "Track" selection, change the type of playback to random and hit play?
Again, not sure...
(Sorry DEP14, I misread your question, but you may still be able to do it through the app?)
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When people describe the SQ from the HAP, I'd love to know if they are describing the converted-to-DSD sound or if they have turned that off and are hearing the non-DSD output.
I'm guessing that some owners are not aware that all of their music is being converted to DSD (I'm not implying that this is a bad thing) and that they have the option to prevent this.
Any comments on DSD converted vs. native SQ?
-Mike
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I tried it and now just leave the DSD upsampling on all the time. It's not a huge difference imo....
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Agreed. The difference is very subtle. I leave it off.
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+2 that subtle is probably the best way to describe the DSD upsampling. That said, I enjoy it enough I leave mine on all the time too.
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My unit has developed the same problem. A factory reset did not cure it. I'll call Sony ES help.
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I own two of these beauties.
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New firmware out today...
https://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-home.pl?mdl=HAPZ1ES&template_id=1®ion_id=1&tab=download#/downloadTab
This firmware upgrade (version 17384R) provides the following improvements over version 17050R:
Adds support for the Spotify Connect features
Adds support for a USB hub connection to one HDD drive and one CD drive
Adds support for the Wake On LAN function
So it looks like we can get a USB hub, and plug both an additional hard drive AND a CD drive to rip CDs at the same time? That's pretty cool....
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Has anyone had major problems with HAP music transfer soft wear, i.e. keep losing connection, files won't actually transfer at all now & each time i click start it's "attempting" to transfer the same files. I've tried 3 different routers. I use JRiver.
Is there another way to transfer music files from my laptop, without using HAP Transfer ? Any help much appreciated. ( I've even re-installed the soft wear, but still the same problems. ) With this latest change of router, i'm not even getting the transfer circle symbol displaying on my screen. Very frustrating !!!
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If you have a Windows PC I've been able to simply bring up File Explorer and the Sony's drive should show up on the network as an attached hard drive. You can then just copy and paste your desired music folders and files over to it directly. Somehow it seemed to handle all of the formatting automatically, which I was concerned about since the Sony doesn't use Windows OS. Hope this works as easily for you, let us know!
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If you have a Windows PC I've been able to simply bring up File Explorer and the Sony's drive should show up on the network as an attached hard drive. You can then just copy and paste your desired music folders and files over to it directly. Somehow it seemed to handle all of the formatting automatically, which I was concerned about since the Sony doesn't use Windows OS. Hope this works as easily for you, let us know!
Thanks for your reply. Excuse my ignorance, i'm not sure how to bring up "File Explorer" ? I can't see the Sony Hard Drive listed ?? ( Not very good with computers...i find things by pure chance, most of the time !!
Sorry, just found file explorer & opened it and can now see HAP -S1 listed....see how i go from here....
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Since it sounds like you may need further assistance about copying the files, this might help. In File Explorer you should be able to click on the drive where you have the music files that you want to copy to the Sony and navigate to the proper directory. Then if you right click on the folder or files you want to copy (holding down the Ctrl key while selecting files or folders will allow you to select more than one which will then be highlighted) and then select Copy. Now if you navigate to the Sony in File Explorer and to the location you want to place the files you selected to copy, you right click and select Paste. The folders and/or files you selected to copy will get copied to that location on the Sony's hard drive. Hope that helps!
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Since it sounds like you may need further assistance about copying the files, this might help. In File Explorer you should be able to click on the drive where you have the music files that you want to copy to the Sony and navigate to the proper directory. Then if you right click on the folder or files you want to copy (holding down the Ctrl key while selecting files or folders will allow you to select more than one which will then be highlighted) and then select Copy. Now if you navigate to the Sony in File Explorer and to the location you want to place the files you selected to copy, you right click and select Paste. The folders and/or files you selected to copy will get copied to that location on the Sony's hard drive. Hope that helps!
Thank you very much for your help. I think even i can't go wrong with those clear instructions !