AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Von Schweikert Audio Owners => Topic started by: Albert Von Schweikert on 31 Jul 2014, 01:07 am
-
Hello Fellow Audiophiles,
Our company has evolved into offering two different product categories. As the Great Recession continues, Von Schweikert Audio continues to find ways to build and sell highly cost effective speaker systems under a Factory Direct business model. These models are the VR-22 and VR-33, with more models to follow.
These models are only a small portion of our overall sales, as our Dealer Models which are too expensive to sell Direct, are actually our best sellers. In Europe and Asia, where we do the most business, our large speakers dominate their respective markets. Many of our Export Distributors and Dealers do not like the idea of mixing the Factory Direct models with the exclusive Dealer Models, since they say that it causes confusion in the minds of the customers. After extensive thought, we have come to agree with this assessment and have split up our company into two divisions.
Please see our website to see how we have accomplished this.
Regarding the name, my original company was called Vortex Acoustics back in the 1970's when I was a student at California Institute of Technology. As a student project, we developed a large but thin panel speaker using dynamic cone drivers called the "Screen." It somewhat looked like an electrostatic speaker, so the name "screen" was a no-brainer and was suggested by one of the female students in our group.
In memory of this model, we have named our Factory Direct Division "Vortex Acoustics." By the way, the Vortex Screen morphed into the original VR-4 in the late 1980's. The first review of the Screens was written by Robert Harley, then Technical Editor of Stereophile, in July 1989. After receiving over 500 orders, I quit my day job as a driver designer at KSC Industries and Consultant to Counterpoint Electronics and started Von Schweikert Research. A few years ago, we renamed the company to Von Schweikert Audio and for most people, that's the name they have come to know. We have two new models coming soon, the VR-55 and the VR-66. We will be showing the VR-55 at RMAF in October. We will be using the fantastic Constellation Audio electronics including their new music server, along with an entire loom of Master-Built cables throughout. Even the upcoming VR-55 will use this remarkable Single Crystal lab-grade wire internally. We certainly hope you can make it by our room for a demo!
-
So....any hints about the upcoming speaker designs for Vortex Acoustics? Higher price points? Lower price points? Timelines? :scratch:
-
So....any hints about the upcoming speaker designs for Vortex Acoustics? Higher price points? Lower price points? Timelines? :scratch:
Very good question.
My guess - it sounds like a lower price point brand to bring new and potentially younger customers into the family. Baby boomers leave in larger houses (still) and can afford 30+K speakers and VSA (as well as many other audio gear companies) geared towards addressing that customer segment. That said, Baby boomers approaching retirement and would reduce their spending.
Millennials - even bigger demographic wave, but they live in smaller houses/apartments and wouldn't think about spending 10, 20, 30 K for the speakers at this point (many may be into headphones).
At the same time, millenialls earning potential is growing - they are the future of any brand and they are brand loyal.
Vortex Acoustics would allow them to become seduced by VSA sound signature and upgrade in the future to a more upscale VSA lineup.
I my logic is correct, I wouldn't be surprised to see even smaller(less expensive)speakers in the Vortex family in the future (or might be even headphones :scratch:)
Sorry guys (especially smilach) - I went too far into speculations :nono: - I think we better get a real answer
-
Your speculation mirrors my own Rouslanbel. Looks like Vortex will absorb the 22 and 33 and the export models (25 and 35) will be shelved.
Lots of great ideas being tossed around for what the 66's performance envelope vis-a-vis intended use should be. Sorry folks, gag order! :icon_twisted:
-
My only problem is when I go to sell my VR-33's, will the resale value be lower now that they aren't called Von Schweikert speakers? Honestly, this news does not thrill me.
-
While I understand that dealers don't like the idea of high quality speakers which come cheaper just because they are sold direct and wrapped in cloth (instead of a nice finish), I am not thrilled either of the idea of having the speaker that suddenly change name.
In the eyes of a customer this does seem like a "downgrade" from the name VSA has built over the years. These leaves us (well, me at least) with questions over manufacture quality like: will you keep the VR-22/33 speakers really built in house, or now that they are associated with a new name they'll be manufactured at a lower cost facility? It sounds like they are going to lose that prestige the VSA name is giving to them.
I just ordered a pair of VR-33 surely because of the hundreds of good reviews but also because the name means "quality" in the audiophile society, and this change of direction leaves me with the thought of if I've made the right decision now.
Honestly from my point of view I would have probably split the two like VSA vs "VSA Direct" (on its own website) but not go with a change of name. :(
Leo
-
Hello Stereo5,
The resale of your VR-33's would not be affected by this at all. These are still Von Schweikert speakers and are still going to be VSA speakers for years to come. All Vortex Acoustic speakers are still designed and built by VSA. Vortex Acoustics is a sub division of VSA to handle all factory direct models only and not to be confused with our sold through dealer only models. Hope this helps.
Still and always,
VSA
-
Based on my interactions with Albert, I couldn't imagine him lowering sound quality or production quality bar. He is a wizard and perfectionist and it's a good thing. :-)
-
Hello Concerned Von Schweikert fans,
I have met thousands of you at shows for the past 40 years. In addition, we have sold over 100,000 pairs of speakers over the years, some with the Von Schweikert name and others with brands I have consulted with.
By now, I hope I have established something extremely important to me and equally as important to you: a good reputation for keeping my word and complete honesty in dealing with our thousands of customers.
When I say that the name change is only a name change, that is exactly what I meant. The VR-22, 33 and upcoming models will be built in our Von Schweikert factories here in California, directly under my supervision. I do not intend to let quality fall, as everyone knows that can harm a company. As my company is no better than my personal reputation, I would not let any of you down, nor would I do something as dastardly as design a world-class product then cheapen it just to make a profit. I'm not that kind of guy, and most of you know that.
If any of you reading this thread are satisfied with their Von Schweikert speakers, please speak up and let the people who are worried know that their fears are unfounded.
As Always,
Happy Listening!
-
Hello,
I love my VR-33's but hope to eventually move up to a more costly VSA speaker. I have zero concerns about the quality of the product changing, as I know and hear the quality that goes into my speakers. My worry was that the general public might conceive the new name as a low end VSA speaker which we all know it isn't. If I caused any confusion, I apologize as I never wanted to imply that Albert would cheapen the product.
My wife and I have an understanding that I can get a new Corvette when I retire in 2-3 years, but with the price of a base Corvette at a little over 58K, I will opt for a 20-30K pair of new VSA speakers and a new Hyundai instead. The Vette will get me many speeding tickets, the speakers will give me pure pleasure......It's a no-brainer.
-
I would not worry about quality but I do find the use of two brands a bit confusing -- I'd have just made it clear that VSA offers lower priced models only as a factory-direct option but expects sales of the higher range models to be handled via dealer. So then there are direct and there are dealer models, all of them VSA. But if dealers are the one's asking for something more then I suppose the two-brand option can make sense. Time will tell. IF anything, those with VSA branded 22s and 33s might have something a bit more valuable than a Vortex model, even if it's the same speaker.....
As for the new Vette 'stereo5', I think putting some of the cost to new speakers might be a good deal but in my experience with a recent rental, I'd avoid compromising with a Hyundai (ducking!!!)
Peace
P.
-
Hello Concerned Von Schweikert fans,
I have met thousands of you at shows for the past 40 years. In addition, we have sold over 100,000 pairs of speakers over the years, some with the Von Schweikert name and others with brands I have consulted with.
By now, I hope I have established something extremely important to me and equally as important to you: a good reputation for keeping my word and complete honesty in dealing with our thousands of customers.
When I say that the name change is only a name change, that is exactly what I meant. The VR-22, 33 and upcoming models will be built in our Von Schweikert factories here in California, directly under my supervision. I do not intend to let quality fall, as everyone knows that can harm a company. As my company is no better than my personal reputation, I would not let any of you down, nor would I do something as dastardly as design a world-class product then cheapen it just to make a profit. I'm not that kind of guy, and most of you know that.
If any of you reading this thread are satisfied with their Von Schweikert speakers, please speak up and let the people who are worried know that their fears are unfounded.
As Always,
Happy Listening!
I've purchased the original VR-4 and Albert upgraded it to VR-44 spec last year.
I am extremely happy - not just with the product, but also with the level of service and commitment to customers VSA demonstrated during the upgrade process.
As for two brands strategy - many companies has done that in the past (Lexus-Toyota-Scion; BMW-Mini and etc).
For years VSA built a prescription of a true high-end brand. I believe, that VSA speakers represents a great value - VR-44, VR-100 and etc, but for many young audiophiles or audiophiles on a budget the PRECEIVE VSA as totally non-affordable and thus irrelevant for them.
Something like Ferrari or even Lexus in the car world.
A new value-oriented brand (think Toyota-Scion) could offer them high quality without bells and whistles at a much more affordable price point.
Vortex speakers could be marketed differently and even demoed/displayed differently. I went to California Audio Show last year and have heard VR-22 in the same room right after VR-100. VR-22 didn't sound bad, but you can't really compare $140K speaker with a $3K speaker back-to-back. It would totally confuse a potential VR-22 buyer and may actually lead to a lost sale (nobody likes to find out he can't afford what he liked more and the speaker he was thinking of purchasing is not as good as others).
New brand would give Albert more flexibility in terms of marketing, demoing in a different room, pairing with more value-oriented equipment and etc.
I think, as a consumers we would only win from more brand awareness of Albert (regardless of the sub- brand).
-
I've gotten to know Albert over the past 6 years since I bought my first pair of VSA speakers...the VR4 Sr. MkIIs and can vouch for the guy. He is as passionate about his craft as anyone I've known and all my interactions with him have been great. He has made promises to me over the years and has honored every single one of them. It's extremely unlikely that I would ever upgrade from my VR5 Anniversary MK 1.5s but if I did you can bet your buttski that it would be a pair of VSAs higher up on the food chain.. :thumb:
-
Congrats to VSA for much continued success! Back in the Fall of 2008 when I purchased the VR-5 Anniversary Albert and my dealer Richard gave me a deal that I could not pass up! Then again back in the Fall of 2012 when I shipped my Anni's back to VSA to have them upgraded to the MKII status, everything was handled very professional and personal. I, like Gavin, back this company 100 percent. I too am very interested in the upcoming VR-66 (pics please!!) even though I will probably never depart with my Anni's, but....in the Audio world, never say never!
Henry
-
Toyota has been mentioned, let me add that a consumer won't pay as much for an Avilon as they will for an ES350. The lower end name is a lower end product. Perception is all that really matters here. 3 grand for a pair of vsa speakers sound great, I'm less interested now. As for the comment about VSA 33s and 22s being more valuable used, I'd don't see how anything else could be the truth.
Sorry to hear this news.
-
It's about marketing not quality. Dealers don't want to compete against a direct market product. Although I would prefer a VSA named product, I get it. Once audiophiles get used to the new brand, the price of used 33's & 22's will stabilize. I suspect that the new company VA will be preferred where products overlap because they will be the more advanced examples of those speakers.
This is a smart move, reviving a name to expand market share. I have no doubt that product integrity will be maintained.
-
It strikes me that we buy speakers based on how good they sound (our system, our ears) relative to what we can afford, and if we're smart, the credibility of the manufacturer. At some point, anyone looking to buy Vortex speakers will do their homework and certainly know that Vortex = VSA, the only difference being distribution channels and price points. As long as Albert still controls design and oversight, the name should not matter.
Of course, how the Vortex line evolves relative to the dealer VSA line will be interesting, particularly with respect to the borderline products like the VR-33/35s, but it strikes me far more about marketing than anything else. If you love the sound of Albert's speakers, then your budget will drive your choice far more than a name difference I would think.
-
So if the VSA speakers will be going exclusively thru dealers VSA will have to reestablish a dealer network. Pick me :thumb:
-
The main problem IMHO - it is almost impossible to hear VSA speakers in many parts of the country.
If folks don't hear VSA and not even aware of it - they wouldn't buy it.
Dealers is one way of solve that problem. That said, large dealers (Magnolia/Best Buy) only Cary a few brands and it is hard to get in unless you have a very good publicity), smaller dealers usually looking for a lower priced items (below 4K) - at least this is the impression I've got when I tried to talk to 4-5 dealers in Seattle area.
Audio shows is another way, but "the coverage" is not wide geographically speaking.
Emotiva (100% direct internet sales) is doing road shows across the country, invests in their online community and even introduced a club membership to promote brand loyalty.
I took Albert's presentation to California Audio Society last month as a very encouraging sign ( could fly to California at that time) and even if it doesn't generate immediate sales, it would promote the brand and increase awareness. I hope, Albert will do more of this type of events ( I have a conflict of interests here :-))
Another interesting trend - sales democratization - relying on fellow audiophiles in your area to demo VSA speakers in their homes.
Would you guys agree to demo VSA speakers in your systems to a fellow audiophiles with Albert' referral?
Albert May even offer some incentives - like donate 3% of sales to a local philharmonic or a charity of your choice.
I had a personal experience of this model with Hypex ncore amps. They are sold as DIY boards and with no dealers or sales force. I was able to find a couple of customers in Seattle area and auditioned 1 system extensively before purchasing.
Let's face it - building a network of dealers is a slow process and we could help VSA right now.
-
Great point Rouslanbel! This past April, my dealer who owns a small audio shop closed for good due to lack of sales, it's ashame. He was the only dealer that I know who carried VSA in my area. I miss the small audio specialty shops. Does anyone know of any VSA dealers in Maryland? It would be nice to have VSA list the dealers by state on their website.
Henry
-
Unfortunately local dealers are extinct. Plus, I would rather hear the equipment in my system. Not in a sound room. Albert offers a 90 day trial with free shipping!! I'm a longtime VSA customer. I'm on my 4th pair. Currently have the VR-35's!! Bloody Awesome speaker!!
Please note that Vortex Acoustics speakers are not sold through dealers but are instead sold “direct to consumer” for incredibly low prices that include Free Shipping and a 90-day In Home Trial Period with full refund if not satisfied. After selling over 4,000 + pairs, only a handful have ever been returned, validating our design goals, quality, value, and overall sonic superiority! Please Note that Vortex Acoustics Speakers are not sold outside of the USA. Please call us at (951) 682-0706 to order. We accept personal checks or credit/debit cards. As all speakers are custom-built to order, there is a short lead time. Color samples are provided elsewhere on this site, and there are a few optional upgrades that you can purchase, such as Bi-Wire. Call for more information.
-
Hello Fellow Audiophiles,
We have two new models coming soon, the VR-55 and the VR-66. We will be showing the VR-55 at RMAF in October. We will be using the fantastic Constellation Audio electronics including their new music server, along with an entire loom of Master-Built cables throughout. Even the upcoming VR-55 will use this remarkable Single Crystal lab-grade wire internally. We certainly hope you can make it by our room for a demo!
Hello,
Will there be a new matching center channel?
-
I for one would be happy to demo my VR-22's for anyone in my area interested following referral by VSA.
I had one gentleman over to hear as he was contemplating a purchase, though I don't how he decided.
My only worry is about my room, not with the speakers themselves.
This is the first speaker purchase I have made that I wasn't looking farther up the chain for a higher end model. I am a happy camper.
Marlin
-
I would be interested in hearing the VR-22 or VR-33 speakers if there's anyone within, say, a couple of hundred miles of Asheville, NC, who's willing to demo them.
-
A friend came by my room to audition a pair of 33's I had on loan from Albert and he ended up buying them :thumb:
-
Before this change, all the speakers were being offered at factory-direct-prices. Now, only the Vortex speakers are going to be offered at factory-direct pricing. Approximately, how much will the Von Schweikert speakers rise in price - and when? It seems reasonable to expect an increase, given the transition from the previous factory-direct pricing to the new through-a-dealer pricing.
-
The 22 and the 33 are already factory direct so I don't expect major price changes. I think we also have to make a distinction between factory direct price and dealer price. The former can not be the same or or lower than the latter. That would kill export sales. Nobody can do international home trials. That's where dealers are totally needed.
Cabinets represent the bulk of the costs since Albert doesn't skimp on parts so expect that the look for the factory direct models will be different (cloth instead of veneer and automotive paints). Maybe there will be veneers in the future but not exotic ones with lacquer finishes. Satin at most. They will still look great but they wont be fancy. In other words savings will be derived from visual aesthetics.
Personally I think it is a good strategy. With the 22 and 33 in the VR line, the design language looks disjointed. Business wise, the first look is very important. You want your product to be easily identifiable as part of the same line. They should share the same features as well, like the rear ambience tweeter present from the 44 to the 111. The only thing that bums me out as a foreign distributor is that I can't sell the 22 and the 33 anywhere near what you in the US can get them for. With taxes, duties and freight a 22 would cost $4,000 landed, that's without any mark up. They may be covered in cloth but they are still made of the right materials, are heavy and inert. Nothing like the speakers in big box stores that you can play bongos off of. The bright side is that the Unifield line is around for our clients with smaller spaces.
I have an idea where the VR line is headed but I think it best to leave the detailed explaining to Albert. Albert has told me that he intends to have semi-active versions (bass) for all VR models and that is the reason for the body change of the 5s. FWIW the ribbon rear wouldn't work on the 5's MT cabinet either. Not to mention that with the incorporation of the masterbuilt internal cabling which has very little transmission loss, the need to space out the crossovers is negated. This is good news for the buyers since many will now have the choice to single wire (even if bi-wire is a bit better).
-
After years of dealing with Albert I know quality will be maintained. I would happy to offer audiitons of my VR5 MK2's with Albert's referral. It would be a great way to meet people interest in fine music from my area.
-
I've never owned nor heard a VSA speaker, but the next speakers I buy will be the VR22 or 33. I need to make up my mind if at 60 something I'm willing to mess with apprx. 85lbs per speaker or 105 lbs each. I been around this stuff since the early 80's and from what I've read and been told about Albert and his house sound, all builders have a house sound for lack of better words, I'll buy the '22's or the '33's as soon as the insurance company sends the check for everything that was stolen. :nono: I feel that anything Albert fools with is at the top of the industries respected and revered products and I don't feel slighted at all by purchasing a product that's from a subsidiary of VSA.
-
..correctamundo Harley! :thumb:
-
Harley I am 64. If you have the speakers on a smooth surface such as wood, I have found with Herbies Gliders under the stock speaker spikes, that I can move the heavies around easily and they have improved the sound. Niot sure how they would work on carpet but also should glide over that as well. so I had another person present at setup initially to get them out of box and tip them to put on spikes, them was fine from there on my own. Hope this helps
Joe