Any reason to run 220 volts to the garage?

ctviggen · « **on:** 23 May 2010, 01:44 pm »

I installed a 110 volt, 20 amp line (with 10/2) out to the garage and then ran 10 gauge THHN wires through metal conduit to three GFCI outlets. The metal conduit goes around one side of the garage. I use this half of the garage for projects. I have a table saw, miter saw, etc., out there.

Is there any reason to change the 10/2 romex to 10/3 so that I could add 220V to the garage? (I'd have to terminate the 10/3 with a 110 and 220 V outlet in the same box if possible; not sure this type of connection is made though. I could also possibly add a double box, with 110 on one side and 220 on the other.) In about a month, I should have the family room in a condition to be drywalled, which means that after drywalling I can no longer run electrical cable (the breaker box is on the other side of the family room).

Thanks!

jtwrace · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 May 2010, 01:47 pm »

I have a few for my welders. I also just had a mini split system installed yesterday for the garage. Going to be so nice..

jtwrace · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 May 2010, 01:59 pm »

I was really surprised to see how much wire has gone up. A 100' roll of 12/3 and 10/3 were nearly $100 each.

macrojack · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 May 2010, 02:14 pm »

This is true in all situations - Tis better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
I would be asking if there is any reason NOT to put 220 in the garage.

decal · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 May 2010, 02:46 pm »

I have no idea if you need 220V.You have to figure that out on your own.

Scott F. · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 May 2010, 03:37 pm »

Bob,

If you ever plan on investing in a (say) 5hp air compressor or running a small welder, you'll need a beefy 220 circuit. I've got 220 in my garage and woodshop just for that purpose. Once I get my air compressor up to the woodshop, I'll start running air tools and set up a spray booth so I can squirt finishes.

Be aware, you can't grab one leg of a 220 circuit and run 110 off it. The 220 breaker is tied together back in the panel. You'll have to run a new circuit for your 110.

macrojack · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 May 2010, 03:56 pm »

220 in the garage is a selling point in the real estate world. And you might even find out you have a use for it. What about recharging your Toyota/Tesla?

Wayner · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 May 2010, 04:57 pm »

I believe the National Electric Code may require you to install GFCI breakers for your 220 (240) volt outlet. If the garage floor should ever become damp, there is an electrical shock hazard, when operating any equipment that is 240 volt.

Wayner

mgalusha · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 May 2010, 02:52 am »

I have several 240/20A for my compressor and table saw. There is one 240/30A for my (hopefully) future dust collector. Go for it.

Ferdi · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 May 2010, 11:57 am »

of course, for us in Europe the answer is "yes". We might get 380V (3-phase) power but that's for really heavy loads.

Ferdi

konut · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 May 2010, 12:31 pm »

It will come in handy if you want to recreate any of the experiments of Dr. Frankenstein.

ctviggen · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 May 2010, 01:52 pm »

Thanks, so perhaps I'll have to pull additional wire for 220V. I have GFCI outlets for the three outlets installed on 110V. I assume that for 220V, I'd have to switch the breakers to GFCI? I'll have to look into this. I have two copies of the NEC, but it's often easier to Google a topic and then figure out what sections of the NEC apply, then read the NEC. Otherwise, it can be tough to find some topics.

If I have two hots and a neutral, I should be able to get both 110V and 220V, shouldn't I? Or would I be loading one hot too much to have it run the three outlets on the 110V?

I may have to just pull additional wire for the 220V. If I pull wire, do I pull a neutral (so that I could get 110v)? Or do I just let it be 220V only?

Wire has gotten expensive. 100 feet of 10/3 wire cost me $130. (I like to go up a size for some projects.)

ctviggen · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 May 2010, 02:40 pm »

It appears that GFCI is only required for 110V. So, I'll run a separate 220V line to its own 220V set of breakers. Still not sure whether to provide neutral or not.

ctviggen · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 May 2010, 02:51 pm »

I believe I'm going to use 10/3 to wire with a neutral and 30 amp breakers. I can always simply not use the neutral, but it's really hard to impossible to run cable once drywall is up in the family room. And the cost difference between 10/2 and 10/3 is minimal relative to how freaking long it takes to drill all the holes through joists and studs and pull the wire and properly tack the wire into place. I'll put a 220V outlet that requires neutral in the garage.

BobM · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 May 2010, 05:46 pm »

You'll need it to power that kilowatt amplifier for the garage sound system

ctviggen · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 May 2010, 06:58 pm »

I already have speakers in the garage (run in parallel with the speakers on the deck, in the kitchen, and in the bedroom).

I did seriously consider running 220 to my equipment location in the family room. However, I don't have any 220 gear and don't plan on buying any. Instead, I have two 20 amp cryoed, isolated ground, hospital grade outlets, each on its own 20 amp circuit, and a system of cryoed THHN, 10 ga wires in EMT. That should suffice.

Wayner · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 May 2010, 07:28 pm »

I would always recommend a rubber mat to stand on while operating anything running on 240 volt. BTW, it's not 220, it's 240. As an electrical designer, I always lean towards safety. 240 volts can kill real good and there have been guys killed running their welders in the garage, on damp concrete. Equipment malfunctions happen all the time, and a hap hazard view of any electricity is a formula for trouble. I've sat thru several NFPA classes and have seen pictures. Just be careful.

Wayner

coke · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 May 2010, 08:53 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 24 May 2010, 07:28 pm

I would always recommend a rubber mat to stand on while operating anything running on 240 volt. BTW, it's not 220, it's 240. As an electrical designer, I always lean towards safety. 240 volts can kill real good and there have been guys killed running their welders in the garage, on damp concrete. Equipment malfunctions happen all the time, and a hap hazard view of any electricity is a formula for trouble. I've sat thru several NFPA classes and have seen pictures. Just be careful.

Wayner

That sounds like a good idea. I also agree with you on the safety. 13.2 kV and 4160 V are common where I work. People who are used to these voltages often feel that something like 480 or 240 isn't dangerous. Everyone should be aware that it only takes a few milliamps to kill you.

Here's some info if anyone is interested. It also points out how much of a difference sweaty or wet skin can make.
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/construction/electrical_incidents/eleccurrent.html

ctviggen · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 May 2010, 10:07 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 24 May 2010, 07:28 pm

I would always recommend a rubber mat to stand on while operating anything running on 240 volt. BTW, it's not 220, it's 240. As an electrical designer, I always lean towards safety. 240 volts can kill real good and there have been guys killed running their welders in the garage, on damp concrete. Equipment malfunctions happen all the time, and a hap hazard view of any electricity is a formula for trouble. I've sat thru several NFPA classes and have seen pictures. Just be careful.

Wayner

I'm not going to be operating on a live circuit. I'm going to route the wire to the garage and connect it to an outlet in the garage. When I connect the wire to the breaker box, I shut off all power to the breaker box, then install breakers and connect wires to the breakers, then turn on the power. I don't do any work on live circuits.

It may be 240 where you are, but for me the actual voltage is nearer 220, especially in the summer. Plus, why quibble about 20 volts? 220 is high enough.

ctviggen · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 May 2010, 10:09 pm »

Oh, I see, you mean while operating 220/240V machinery. The chances are excellent I won't have such machinery. I just want to know if it's a reasonable thing to add 220/240 to the garage. I can add it while I have no drywall in my family room.