[Big Red Machine]

We moved in September into a new house in Owensboro. I have many projects going on in parallel - laundry room, prepping for my Aural Enlightenment IV, and planning the kitchen remodel (another!).

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164212.msg1756393#msg1756393

My expectations for this room are the lowest I have ever had. Since it is an existing room on the second floor and directly over the kitchen/TV room I can only do so much to "sound proof" and keep it on the upscale side for future resale.

I've already run a 6 inch pipe up through it for the future range hood below, run a Cat 7 cable from the server to the equipment wall and a 20 amp wire from the sub-panel upstairs to the same front wall. I also ran a gas line from the attic furnace down through the wall where the existing electric range is. It will be nice with natural light looking out onto the golf course versus previous cellar-dweller low light rooms of the past.

To try and mitigate sound levels the best I can do I filled each floor joist cavity in the floor with blown-in insulation yesterday, and I ordered some 1/8 inch mass loaded vinyl for underlayment before I install the flooring. Next to me on one side is the attic and the other side is an open attic space over the screened in porch. Behind me will be a closet and a 4 foot doorway to a landing. I'll put in a barn door for that and try to seal it up if I can engineer something that slides easily also.

Lots to do and I'm last on the hit parade due to momma's priorities so I am trying to spend time on this as much as I can while keeping her happy.

This will be my flooring:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Innovations-Maui-Whitewashed-Oak-8-mm-Thick-x-11-1-2-in-Wide-x-46-1-2-in-Length-Click-Lock-Laminate-Flooring-22-28-sq-ft-case-898923/203525699

Probably a light blue paint and maybe a navy blue area rug to man it up a little.

Some construction/destruction pics later.

[Bob2]

I followed your last room build and have to admire the work and the effort and outcome.
Settling for a room that, will be so much compromise, work and expense might suggest that you could think about
maybe a separate building. Which is what I did.

Built to the correct size with everything done to give an ideal
listening environment. No compromises no regrets.

Best of luck with the new digs!

[WGH]

I always follow your builds with great anticipation. The Triad Atmos and surround speakers I recently installed turned out fantastic with room filling, clear and natural voicing and no beaming. I would definitely do it again. The speakers periodically show up on eBay so collecting everything needed takes time, it took me a couple of months. The average price of the Triad Bronze inwall surround is $495 each (retail $550), a full 7.1.4 system could cost a lot.

Right now there is a pair of Triad inwall surrounds (dipole) on eBay with a $70 starting bid, even if you ended up paying $325 (which is what I paid) it would still be a deal. Pull the rear facing driver and reverse the wires to convert bipole. New Triad Bronze/4 surround speakers are now sold in the bipole configuration as the default, contrary to what the website says.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184030074111

It looks like the speakers don't have grills, I have a new pair of 12" x 12" white frameless grills I will give you for free. Different styles grills are available from Triad, the wide grills are $80 each. The grills hold the speakers in place so they are necessary, the entire system is very well though out and well built.



> Download the Triad 2016 Catalog with Prices here <

Installation tips:

1.) The Triad Inwall Bronze/4 Suround are the perfect ceiling speakers too.

2.) I used a piece of 5/8" PEX tubing as a fish through my attic, it is flexible enough to bend through a 12" x 12" attic hole and stiff enough to reach another hole 8' away while working from below

3.) I cut hand holes in my walls so I could find the wires between the studs using a Fein MultiMaster Detail Sander with a "D" shaped saw blade. The blade can easily split a pencil line, I removed the 'plug', fished the wires, then glued back the plug with drywall mud. A few swipes with lightweight spackling compound and some paint and the hole disappears.

[JLM]

Might be a good time to start serious use of headphones. 

Could you switch HT and audio rooms that you showed on the link?  I suspect, like me, your priority is audio over HT but the 16 x 19 is better for HT and with the stated compromises neither will be good for audio.  Isn't there a better routing of the range vent??  The 4 bed room looks like leftover space if you don't have a big family or lots of overnight guests.  It could be sub-divided to make better dimensional ratios.  Part of your decision of which room to use for which function should include what times of day each room is used and disturbing others in the house. 

[Big Red Machine]

A couple of pics where the behind the scenes work had to get started. Presently I am working on the laundry room project but my MLV and flooring has arrived already and I'll let them acclimate.

The kitchen is directly below and we will change to a gas rangetop. So I will need a 500 cfm fan unit and real duct instead of those goofy MW non-vents. Luckily the attic is right next this room and I can shoot it out there and get a roof vent in later. Unfortunately there is a 10 foot ceiling room right next to the kitchen so I had to go up and then over and out.



I ran a 20 amp line and a Cat 7 along this wall down and around the corner. Darn engineered trusses were running perpendicular and I had to feed the wires thru each one keeping them separated accordingly.




Then I cut up the center after deciding that adding blown-in insulation couldn't hurt for a little extra dampening in the floor. It cost me $250 to rent the machine and buy the bales.




Not a bad view from the room:

[Big Red Machine]

Painting almost done. Ceiling is Cool White and walls will look darker after the second coat. After the Thanksgiving herd leaves I hope to install the MLV and flooring Sat and Sunday after I move all this out and throw the carpeting out the window.

[Big Red Machine]

Painting completed:

[Big Red Machine]

Mass loaded vinyl installed. 300 lbs of it.

[Big Red Machine]

Flooring done today. I need to paint the shoe molding and then get it installed. Just purchased two 30 inch door slabs for a 60 inch barn door entry.

[Nick77]

Looking good, what is the flooring? Cork?   

[mcgsxr]

I cannot imagine a room other than a basement.  It’s all about the compromises you want to make to get what you want and be able to live there. 

This looks lovely. 

Nice plan and great execution!

[Big Red Machine]

Looking good, what is the flooring? Cork?   

Just a floating snap together from HD. Nothing fancy. I wanted something brighter since I knew I would paint the walls darker. I'm highly confident the MLV will do nothing except maybe block some higher frequencies to the kitchen below. But I had to do any due diligence within reason to mitigate what I could. I hate engineered trusses - give me good old 2x10's and 2x12's solid joists any day.

[Big Red Machine]

Almost there. A few more details to iron out. It always take longer than you want to get all the pieces ironed out.

Placeholder: I use this and have for many years, the 38/62% seating.

http://noaudiophile.com/speakercalc/

I use Option 2 to great effect and have found it to be a no fail mathematical approach.

[JLM]

Just a floating snap together from HD. Nothing fancy. I wanted something brighter since I knew I would paint the walls darker. I'm highly confident the MLV will do nothing except maybe block some higher frequencies to the kitchen below. But I had to do any due diligence within reason to mitigate what I could. I hate engineered trusses - give me good old 2x10's and 2x12's solid joists any day.

Doubt the vinyl will have an effect (mass increase is very low on a per square foot basis).  You'd been better off trying to isolate the floor from the trusses.  And as a former structural engineer I love trusses: stiffer and allow for ductwork/piping runs without sacrificing strength.  Plus if deeper allows for more insulation.  BTW I'd take out any ceiling electrical boxes in the spaces below as they will transmit sound and fill the cavity with loose insulation. 

[timind]

Looking good.

Using the calculator, option 2 puts your speakers only 5 feet apart, and listening position 4.5 feet away from speakers. Is that what you come up with? Am I missing something here? That seems awfully close for your Wilson's.

[Big Red Machine]

Looking good.

Using the calculator, option 2 puts your speakers only 5 feet apart, and listening position 4.5 feet away from speakers. Is that what you come up with? Am I missing something here? That seems awfully close for your Wilson's.

You fill in the top two values and then proceed down to the calc you want to use. I'm 11.95 feet back from the front wall Tim.

[Big Red Machine]

I'd just about lost my mind trying to get a smoother room response. As most of you know, the room is the room, and you can move your speakers around and you can move your seat around, and you can try and treat the snot out of the room.

I was stuck with this response for a few days while I worked on some other projects. A huge peak to peak range and nowhere near a preferred +-5 db band.

[Big Red Machine]

I wanted to make things better and was not sure which route to take. I kept trying to figure out if the speakers were not where they should be or was I sitting in a bad spot. So I started reading and googling and came across several of Ethan's discussions which helped quite a bit. It was a coincidence I was on the phone with him in the morning ordering another bass trap stand and never thought to ask him about this.

https://ethanwiner.com/basstrap_myths.htm

The above led me to read the links within that page and add two more tools. Very similar to Bob Gold's mode tools.

I tried moving the speakers toward the side wall and the front wall and found very little effect in doing so. I was searching for those 1/4 wavelength relationships and what distance was influencing others. My room width is the biggest culprit to the nulls and peaks.

So then I got crazy and put the mic at 7 feet from the front wall for a simulation of a very near field listening position and see what happened:



So a much better result with a much smaller band - pretty close to +-5.

[Big Red Machine]

Looks like I should move my seat but certainly not up into the equipment rack. What if I moved it backwards to try and hit a sweet-spot in that territory that mirrors the front of the room?

So I started measuring in 6 inch increments from my 11.95' seating position toward the back of the room. At first I moved the speakers in and out to see if they played a part in this move and once again I could not get much swing by moving them. I had to find a complementary location that negated the peaks and nulls influenced by the room width and ceiling height.

Eventually I got to this spot about 45 inches from the back wall:

[Big Red Machine]

An average plot made from the new seating and the 7 foot from front wall plots:





And yes!, it sounds much better sitting in this new location. I like the intimacy of the closer location and will miss the involvement at that close range.

I get more instruments moving outside the speakers from further back believe it or not.

I use a laser pointer to adjust the tweeters to the same relative locations. Typically I get the tweeters to cross just behind my head so I point them to my shoulder width.