[mgsboedmisodpc2]

Just curious but using the definition of true bi wiring to be to use two separate cable runs for the upper and bass frequencies HOW TO KEEP EACH RUN 1 to 3 INCHES apart which limits electro magnetic signal interference, a good thing, between the two runs  .  It seems that using bi wire cables that are contained on one sheath is inferior convenient and not considered to be true bi wiring.

[jeffreybehr]

My cabling, shown here in the first version while I was using Monarchy SE-160s...

...uses completely separate cable for upper and lower frequencies, joined only at the amp-end spades. 

The sonic benefits of biwiring come from 2 things, (A) the ability to use different cable--metal (in size and type--silver v. copper, for instance), different winding geometry, different net gage size, etc., and (B) the separation of the 2 magnetic fields created by the upper- and lower-frequency cable.  I agree that one gets virtually none of the latter benefit if the two sets of conductors are part of the same wind, but one still gets the benefit of being able to use higher-quality conductors and a different net wire size if you start with a single cable that is composed of different metals and conductor sizes.  Audioquest...
http://www.audioquest.com/speaker-cables/
...in their Flat Rock series puts two separate winds of conductors in a 'zipcord' physical arrangement where the two bundles of conductors are separated by maybe a half-inch.  That cable type certainly doesn't meet your 1-to-3" requirement, but if the separation that AQ uses didn't achieve effective magnetic separation, I can't imagine AQ would use it.  Still, I'm more comfortable using completely separate cable.  While all these custom-wound (by Sonic Craft) speakercables used Neotec UPOCC conductors in Teflon, my later cable combination used the red/white/black cable (pictured above) that was made with 18- and 20g. copper plus 23g. silver on the lower frequencies and all-silver (18, 20, and 22g.) conductors for the upper frequencies.  That all-silver cable I also used on the VCC1 centerchannel speaker.

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

interesting.  I thought there would be a product that would attach to each biwired cable keeping them a distance apart

[jeffreybehr]

interesting.  I thought there would be a product that would attach to each biwired cable keeping them a distance apart

You could make them of popcycle sticks and rubberbands.   

[cody69]

I learned something here... didn't realize separation was critical. Went back and re-read Vandersteen's web page and it confirms this.
I'm running Kimber 8PR cables in a bi-wired configuration, so looks like I'm not optimized.

[Quiet Earth]

I don't have Vandersteen speakers, so I hope it's ok to put in my two cents. I run my bi-wire speaker cables with all four conductors separated by an inch or two. That means two positive and two negative individual mono cables, not twisted together and not physically connected by the insulation or cosmetic dressing. They are very soft and flexible cables, almost limp and listless. I let them fall to the floor from the amp and then separate them evenly along the carpet as they travel to the speaker binding posts.

I know that laying them on the carpet is a big audiophile no-no, but it seems like the best way to keep them evenly separated since they are so listless. I tried putting the separated cables on a thin elevated board, but I couldn't hear a real improvement from when they were just laying on the carpet. I can hear a real improvement when I keep all 4 poles separated though, rather than twisting them all together and keeping them off of the floor.

Anyway, it's something to try and it's usually a free experiment if you can separate the wires without damaging the insulation. (Or over-bending a set of severely twisted, rigid cables.)

[Speedskater]

If each pair is twisted (at a different rate or in opposite directions) then it's not an issue.
You can run 4 different balanced audio signals down a 100 meter Cat5 cable with no cross-talk. How? each signal pair is twisted at a different rate.

[geowak]

I use Analysis Plus Ovals. Sound great and yes, they are two separate cables for each speaker, I have the 2CE Sig IIs.

[DEM]

Hi,

I've copied below a photo of 4 separate cables (Synergistic Research Galileo speaker leads) running from the Synergistic Galileo Universal Speaker Cells to my Model 5's:

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

from the automotive industry I found this item which might be useful in keeping cables separate

Taylor Black Clamp Style Wire Seperators

 http://hawkhardware.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=123_28_30&products_id=477&zenid=4ntjlg6m508vpk478bc2cpi610

http://hawkhardware.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=123_28_30&products_id=481&zenid=4ntjlg6m508vpk478bc2cpi610

[robertsong9]

Anybody use/try anti-cables? How about Zu Event or Auditorium 23?

[PMAT]

I made DIY anticables with magnet wire. The first time I used them I really didn't notice anything diff. Recently I was swapping amps and preamps around. Then I moved my Carver speakers farther apart and my cheap monster cable wire was too short so I found my magnet wire cables and put them in. Something wonderful happened but I thought it was the new preamp. I kept switching things around and finally put my original amp and Pre back in and I still had this wonderful new clarity and image. It finally dawned on me that the cables did the trick. I never in 35 years heard a cable difference but there is no mistake it's way better. Cheap to make too.

[robertsong9]

Nah, no DIY for me. I'm looking for an upgrade from my bi-wire AQ Rockafellers (which are excellent, I gotta say).

[ctsooner]

not sure if this thread is too old, but I just bought the Vandy Treo's from John Rutan at Audio Connection in Verona.  He's as good a dealer as I've ever dealt with and I've lived all over the country and been on every continent, lol.  I've been to them all since '69 I think.  He hosted Richard Vandersteen, whom I met back in the mid 80's at Stereo Unlimited in San Diego. Bruce won't remember me, but I'm currently selling off all the great stuff I bought from him when I was in the Navy out there (including those awesome Stax Lambda's, thanks Bruce).

Well, Richard went over bi wiring and some was over my head a bit, but I think I got most of it. He uses and loves AQ cables.  It seems like they have figured out a way to negate the crosstalk with winding and shielding.  I purchased the Castle Rocks in a bi wire instead of getting two runs of their lower priced cables with the DBS units.  I've heard the 7's and 5's at Audio Connection with the higher priced AQ cables and there are huge differences as you add more silver.  I never liked how silver was used in cables until I met the AQ's.  I have Ayre and Vandy's (they will be delivered soon) with upper AQ stuff, but not the top level and I feel it's revealing enough for me to hear any changes in the system.  I've also heard the 5's set up with both Comet in a bi wire and then two runs of Comet.  It was with Quattro's and top of the line CJ amp and pre and DAC with WEL interconnects and Gingko Isolation Platforms on all electronics (didn't even realize it was Gingko until yesterday when I looked at them).  I heard a difference I think.  I'm not even sure as it was soooo close in sound, but it may have been a lower noise floor and a spec more decay on some vocals.  It surely wasn't enough to make any difference for my ear.  The system is darn revealing and I heard major differences and subtle ones as he changed things in and out of the system.  He's the Chicago dealer for Vandersteens and he took the time to let me listen while I was in town for a football game.  He's an awesome guy (sorry I forget the name of his store as I have MS and my memory isn't always the best but for some reason I'm able to remember my listening experiences most of the time) and I would have bought from him, but then I met John at Audio Connection and I'm in his Vandy territory, plus he's an awesome guy.

Not on topic, but I have met many of the Vandy dealers and all have a common thread so far...they are honestly great guy who love music. 

I think it is like anything else..fully dependent on which cables you are using.  AQ seems to be able to bi wire within one cable on the Castle Rock on up.  I've heard their Rocket 88's on the Vandy 3A Sigs and they sounded awesome. I think it also depends on the price range etc... I've heard true bi wire from other manufacturer's and wasn't impressed like I was with the neutrality of the AQ's (that's why I bought them).  I have MIT MH 770 CVT which I'm about to put up for sale as they aren't a bi wire run and I was told NOT to use two different cables for each run by Richard Vandersteen himself.  He said NOT to do it. Sounds like some of you have found other cables that are small enough and easy enough to keep separate which is awesome and you too get the benefit of true bi wire, but for those of you who question if the AQ single run bi wire works, go listen for yourself.  To my ear it works great and I'm happy to put that money towards new music and to upgrade my turntable   Listen on! lol

[C17FXR]

I'm using Stealth Hybrid MLT's. They are actually one cable per run so I wind up with four cables going to my 3A Sig's.

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

Fat hoses or cables you have there.  I would have thought to get spades squarely connected you might have mounted one of the cables say the negative from the top.