AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Omega Speaker Systems => Topic started by: beowulf on 22 Jul 2014, 09:25 pm
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Just saw this in the "Outlaw" section on the Omega site. Here's something cool with the best of both worlds.
(http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/Resources/omegaopenback15.jpeg)
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Cool idea and looks to be really well executed
Higher sensitivity, better bass. Seamless.
Would love to hear these
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a very interesting speaker :thumb:
Someone needs to pull out the CC and call Mr Louis.... :wink:
Dwight
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Wow! Are those the RS5 drivers?
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yes !
http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/omegaoutlawopenb.html
Dwight
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Yes, I'm intrigued. Need to get Louis up and running on that trade up program initiative.
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Looks like they are sold already! This is one design I'm quite interested in since the RS5 drivers have such a huge following.
+1 FireGuy ... I would like to get more info on the trade-up program. I'm thinking I would like to trade-up to the 6XRS or something with integrated subs would be cool as well.
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The design is certainly reminiscent of the Tekton OB 4.5, except the Tekton has the bass reflex port facing forward, and the bass driver is facing the ceiling - perhaps providing some of the benefits of Duke LeJeune and James Romeyn's recent LCS effects models.
They were well received by Enjoythemusic.com 5 years ago:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0809/tekton_design_ob45.htm
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:green:
I should have them next week.
Dwight
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The design is certainly reminiscent of the Tekton OB 4.5, except the Tekton has the bass reflex port facing forward, and the bass driver is facing the ceiling - perhaps providing some of the benefits of Duke LeJeune and James Romeyn's recent LCS effects models.
They were well received by Enjoythemusic.com 5 years ago:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0809/tekton_design_ob45.htm
The Tekton OB 4.5 and the Omega OpenBack 1.5 are, other than in (very) general appearance, completely different speakers. With few exceptions, all cars have four wheels, but they can vary greatly in many ways.
Louis developed his 1.5 way concept around seven years ago, and the RS5 driver is the result of many painstaking hours of development, not just bought off the shelf or modded with some paint or compound in order to call it his own.
The Omega OpenBack features the following:
1) True single driver, single point source, with one driver (low frequency) cutting off at a frequency where it is no longer a point source.
2) Perfect driver integration with both drivers being mounted on the same plane (the front baffle) shooting in the same direction in phase with each other (of course the open driver operates as a dipole, but high frequencies are cut back due to the magnet structure being in the way, which is good.
3) Both drivers are the proprietary U.S. made RS5 OmegaCone 4.5" driver, not a Chinese off the shelf Fostex etc.
4) The 1-1/4 inch thick front baffle is made of birch multiply sandwiched between two layers of MDF, then veneered the hard (and best) way - wet and then into a veneer press; the same goes for the cabinet portion.
5) Where the baffle and the cabinet join, the fasteners are hidden and the baffle at that point is two inches thick. It is also relieved in the back to allow the driver to breathe.
6) The cabinet portion is built the same way his speaker cabinets are built. They can withstand a one story drop onto pavement and don't break.
7) Rear ported for excellent room coupling.
If one peruses some of the European speaker websites, the OpenBack 1.5 is equivalent to speakers in the $5000 - $10000 range.
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:green:
I should have them next week.
Dwight
Nice!!!! Please report back with your listening impressions! :thumb:
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The Tekton OB 4.5 and the Omega OpenBack 1.5 are, other than in (very) general appearance, completely different speakers. With few exceptions, all cars have four wheels, but they can vary greatly in many ways.
Louis developed his 1.5 way concept around seven years ago, and the RS5 driver is the result of many painstaking hours of development, not just bought off the shelf or modded with some paint or compound in order to call it his own.
The Omega OpenBack features the following:
1) True single driver, single point source, with one driver (low frequency) cutting off at a frequency where it is no longer a point source.
2) Perfect driver integration with both drivers being mounted on the same plane (the front baffle) shooting in the same direction in phase with each other (of course the open driver operates as a dipole, but high frequencies are cut back due to the magnet structure being in the way, which is good.
3) Both drivers are the proprietary U.S. made RS5 OmegaCone 4.5" driver, not a Chinese off the shelf Fostex etc.
4) The 1-1/4 inch thick front baffle is made of birch multiply sandwiched between two layers of MDF, then veneered the hard (and best) way - wet and then into a veneer press; the same goes for the cabinet portion.
5) Where the baffle and the cabinet join, the fasteners are hidden and the baffle at that point is two inches thick. It is also relieved in the back to allow the driver to breathe.
6) The cabinet portion is built the same way his speaker cabinets are built. They can withstand a one story drop onto pavement and don't break.
7) Rear ported for excellent room coupling.
If one peruses some of the European speaker websites, the OpenBack 1.5 is equivalent to speakers in the $5000 - $10000 range.
Hi Rob, thanks for all the great info ... without even hearing it I feel it may be something special. Is this something that may be offered in Louis' regular line up or Outlaw only?
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Hi beowulf,
He hasn't decided what he is going to do with it, but it could end up in the regular line. Not sure when though.
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Nice!!!! Please report back with your listening impressions! :thumb:
Yes indeed...give us your impressions please. I cannot tell you (based on the print specs alone) and my own [RS5] Super 5's how much I think I want these. Probably be my last upgrade for quite some time. Like I've said on previous posts, these drivers are the real deal and now you toss in other design improvements? Whoa!!!!
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I think Louis has a winner here. A lot of buzz about this design. Now I have to hear this speaker.
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The Tekton OB 4.5 and the Omega OpenBack 1.5 are, other than in (very) general appearance, completely different speakers. With few exceptions, all cars have four wheels, but they can vary greatly in many ways.
Louis developed his 1.5 way concept around seven years ago, and the RS5 driver is the result of many painstaking hours of development, not just bought off the shelf or modded with some paint or compound in order to call it his own.
The Omega OpenBack features the following:
1) True single driver, single point source, with one driver (low frequency) cutting off at a frequency where it is no longer a point source.
2) Perfect driver integration with both drivers being mounted on the same plane (the front baffle) shooting in the same direction in phase with each other (of course the open driver operates as a dipole, but high frequencies are cut back due to the magnet structure being in the way, which is good.
3) Both drivers are the proprietary U.S. made RS5 OmegaCone 4.5" driver, not a Chinese off the shelf Fostex etc.
4) The 1-1/4 inch thick front baffle is made of birch multiply sandwiched between two layers of MDF, then veneered the hard (and best) way - wet and then into a veneer press; the same goes for the cabinet portion.
5) Where the baffle and the cabinet join, the fasteners are hidden and the baffle at that point is two inches thick. It is also relieved in the back to allow the driver to breathe.
6) The cabinet portion is built the same way his speaker cabinets are built. They can withstand a one story drop onto pavement and don't break.
7) Rear ported for excellent room coupling.
If one peruses some of the European speaker websites, the OpenBack 1.5 is equivalent to speakers in the $5000 - $10000 range.
Well, it sounds like you're sold, and from what you say these are basically perfect, except that if it were a "true single driver, single point source" there would not be two drivers both facing you and sharing the range from bass to 500Hz, down only 6dB by 1000 Hz. And what about a rear port implies excellent room coupling?
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Well, it sounds like you're sold, and from what you say these are basically perfect, except that if it were a "true single driver, single point source" there would not be two drivers both facing you and sharing the range from bass to 500Hz, down only 6dB by 1000 Hz. And what about a rear port implies excellent room coupling?
Hello Russell,
Yes I am sold, and have been for over five years since I heard my first Omegas. You must be sold on the brands you mention too, even to the point of putting a link on this circle to a review of a competitors product. I have been in audio for years and heard just about every kind of speaker in those years and haven't found a speaker that matches the Omegas...at any price. I have not heard a dud from Louis and being a dealer I have heard quite a few of his speakers.
I can't find the word "perfect" in my post with respect to the speaker in general, but the instruments I use for evaluating any audio gear (my ears and live music) tell me Omegas do more right than any other speaker I've heard. I'm not a fanboy as you may suspect; I just know good audio when I hear it, and it gets me excited.
My comment about "true single driver, single point source" may not hold up in the world of measurements, graphs, charts, etc, but if the speaker is capable of producing the same experience as a "true single driver" speaker then my statement isn't too far off.
"Rear ported for excellent room coupling". Most of Louis' speakers are relatively small in comparison with a lot of high end speakers available today, so they benefit from rear porting which I have found to be effective in reinforcing the bottom end especially on smaller speakers. It is a far better way to reinforce the bottom end on a small speaker than building a mid bass hump into the frequency curve which results in boomy, boxy unrealistic bass. All of Louis' speakers from the smallest to the largest have realistic non boomy bass, so the rear port idea must be working. They can also be positioned quite close to a rear wall without the image being adversely affected or the bass getting boomy.
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The last time I owned a dipole was the Infinity IRS beta's...
Looking forward to the 1.5's arrival
Dwight
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Dwight,
Did you get your amp sorted out yet?
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Louis developed his 1.5 way concept around seven years ago
Louis didn't invent this technique as I pointed out in another thread. Its been around forever. Good approach though
The Omega OpenBack features the following:
3) Both drivers are the proprietary U.S. made RS5 OmegaCone 4.5" driver, not a Chinese off the shelf Fostex etc.
How would one really know? Most quality manufacturers list their drivers and measurements. Like this: http://www.bambergaudio.com/products/series3/3tmw.php
6) The cabinet portion is built the same way his speaker cabinets are built. They can withstand a one story drop onto pavement and don't break.
Quite the claim! Care to back it up with test data from a measurement lab? Or anything really (video, pics, etc)
If one peruses some of the European speaker websites, the OpenBack 1.5 is equivalent to speakers in the $5000 - $10000 range.
Hmm. With enough advertising budget and marketing, you can price things at ridiculous prices and people will buy it (think Wilson). How about attending RMAF and showing off your stuff?
OK I'm starting to get a tad negative here and I know thats not encouraged in this forum, so I'll stop now
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Louis has been at RMAF before. I met him there a few years back.
Details on his drivers are there on the website - they may not have been on the page specific to the one-off OB speaker though.
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Louis has been at RMAF before. I met him there a few years back.
Details on his drivers are there on the website - they may not have been on the page specific to the one-off OB speaker though.
Hey Brad
My point is that Louis would add more credibility to his speaker company if he would post measurements of the finished speakers and/or the driver measurements using industry standards similar to what Eminence does:
Multiple units exceed published rating evaluated under EIA 426A noise source and test standard while in a free-air, non-temperature controlled environment.
The average output across the usable frequency range when applying 1W/1M into the nominal impedance. Ie: 2.83V/8ohms, 4V/16ohms.
Eminence response curves are measured under the following conditions: All speakers are tested at 1w/1m using a variety of test set-ups for the appropriate impedance | LMS using 0.25” supplied microphone (software
calibrated) mounted 1m from wall/baffle | 2ft. X 2ft. baffle is built into the wall with the speaker mounted flush against a steel ring for minimum diffraction | Hafler P1500 Trans-Nova amplifier | 2700 cu.ft. chamber with
fiberglass on all six surfaces (three with custom-made wedges).
The only measurements I've seen on his webpage was for the DIY 7F and 7A drivers, no longer available.
I don't get the whole "proprietary" mystique that some manufacturers use. What are you trying to hide after all. More transparency would be welcome!
Regarding where they are made, I'm almost 100% sure it is made in the USA. The 7A driver that I had didn't show the manufacture country of origin. Whats the big secret? Who makes it? It would show credibility if we knew whether it was Mepco, Eminence, etc. If its made in the USA then exploit that with transparency and get ABC news Diane Sawyer to do a special news piece on it like they have been doing for they past year or so! You can do this AND maintain your proprietary and intellectual rights IMO.
Anyway I'm done with this and won't post any more about it. Sorry if I pissed everybody off.
gab
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Hey Brad
My point is that Louis would add more credibility to his speaker company if he would post measurements of the finished speakers and/or the driver measurements using industry standards similar to what Eminence does:
Multiple units exceed published rating evaluated under EIA 426A noise source and test standard while in a free-air, non-temperature controlled environment.
The average output across the usable frequency range when applying 1W/1M into the nominal impedance. Ie: 2.83V/8ohms, 4V/16ohms.
Eminence response curves are measured under the following conditions: All speakers are tested at 1w/1m using a variety of test set-ups for the appropriate impedance | LMS using 0.25” supplied microphone (software
calibrated) mounted 1m from wall/baffle | 2ft. X 2ft. baffle is built into the wall with the speaker mounted flush against a steel ring for minimum diffraction | Hafler P1500 Trans-Nova amplifier | 2700 cu.ft. chamber with
fiberglass on all six surfaces (three with custom-made wedges).
The only measurements I've seen on his webpage was for the DIY 7F and 7A drivers, no longer available.
I don't get the whole "proprietary" mystique that some manufacturers use. What are you trying to hide after all. More transparency would be welcome!
Regarding where they are made, I'm almost 100% sure it is made in the USA. The 7A driver that I had didn't show the manufacture country of origin. Whats the big secret? Who makes it? It would show credibility if we knew whether it was Mepco, Eminence, etc. If its made in the USA then exploit that with transparency and get ABC news Diane Sawyer to do a special news piece on it like they have been doing for they past year or so! You can do this AND maintain your proprietary and intellectual rights IMO.
Anyway I'm done with this and won't post any more about it. Sorry if I pissed everybody off.
gab
At the end of the day, none of the points you bring up really matter. I don't think he has any problems with "credibility" here. And measurements have nothing to do with credibility either. If you want speakers that can play ruler flat, buy headphones. No speakers, regardless of how they measure, will measure the same in your home (unless your home is an anechoic chamber or unless you listen within like 1 meter of the speakers). Regarding "secrets," I think Louis has every right to keep whatever secrets he wishes to. He put in a ton of blood, sweat, and tears over the years to get his speakers where they are today. If he feels he needs to keep info to himself to maintain a competitive edge, then more power to him. If you were in his shoes, and you were trying to maintain (or grow) a profitable business in today's economy, would you just give away your knowledge?
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On meaurements FWIW, I've done crude measurements at the listening chair using the Stereophile test CD and a Radio Shack SPL meter. I've measured Omega 3xrs, KEF LS50s, Harbeth P3ESR's, Silverline Minuets and a couple models of smaller NHT's.
Much to my absolute surprise, the Omegas measured best in my room followed by the Silverlines. There's not a doubt in my mind that in an anechoic chamber, the Omegas would measure the worst and even I expected to see it in my setting.
Regardless, at the end of the day, I'll always choose based on my ears. As mentioned above, I really don't think, given current measurement techniques, that one could pick one speaker over another as being better in their room. Nothing beats listening to the candidates in your own room with your own equipment.
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Not impressed, outlaw isn't what I'd call this.
The single driver in a box fundamental mantra that Louis followed for years has officially left the building. I feel betrayed.
Now we use crossovers??
Somehow his barely documented RS5 driver also works well in open baffle?
And why now do we love open baffles?
And now we're lead to believe that two drivers are better than one? And that a larger driver wouldn't make more sense for mid/bass duties?
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JLM, I really feel bad for you.... Betrayel really hurts :violin:
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Not impressed, outlaw isn't what I'd call this.
The single driver in a box fundamental mantra that Louis followed for years has officially left the building. I feel betrayed.
Now we use crossovers??
Somehow his barely documented RS5 driver also works well in open baffle?
And why now do we love open baffles?
And now we're lead to believe that two drivers are better than one? And that a larger driver wouldn't make more sense for mid/bass duties?
I would call the 1.5 a variation on the single driver concept, not a departure. There are still a whopping 9 Omega single driver models to choose from, and another handful on the Hoyt-Bedford range. How many are you after?
I also encourage you to look up the work "Outlaw", perhaps it will shed some light on the matter for you.
Wow - how DARE he deviate from the past, and try something new.
I encourage you to also look up the word "Innovation" and "Progress".
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Canada BoB,
I decided to keep the 2A3 amp. I have been working on a digital amp for the 3XRS. I started with the tpa3118 but moved on to the tas5611. I just ordered my 4th board...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=121479.msg1346704#msg1346704
Couple thoughts....
The 3XRS is an excellent speaker
Louis is a professional
I want to experience a dipole design
1.5 OB looks intriguing.
Dwight
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Thank you to those of you who have stood by us over the last few months in the face of some harsh and unwarranted criticism. I hope the tenor of the Omega AudioCircle changes to the enjoyable forum it was before. I have personally never worked for or with a finer individual than Louis. We, for the most part, think as one person, and essentially have the same set of ears. When he describes how a particular speaker sounds, I know what to expect when I get to hear it. Thanks again for having our back. CR
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Thank you to those of you who have stood by us over the last few months in the face of some harsh and unwarranted criticism. I hope the tenor of the Omega AudioCircle changes to the enjoyable forum it was before. I have personally never worked for or with a finer individual than Louis. We, for the most part, think as one person, and essentially have the same set of ears. When he describes how a particular speaker sounds, I know what to expect when I get to hear it. Thanks again for having our back. CR
Should you and/or Louis have the chance to be in Buffalo please send me an PM> for some music and a few cold ones.
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Thank you for the invitation FireGuy. If I'm in or near Buffalo, I'll try to get over there.
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Here they are :green:
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103178)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103179)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103185)
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C'mon, we know what they look like. :D. How do they sound?
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C'mon, we know what they look like. :D. How do they sound?
Very nice. Love the stands. Duel RS5's drivers are still a single source as I understand it. And PLEASE let us know how they sound. Great job Louis.
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So awesome. If these don't sound like $5-$10K speakers I'll be highly disappointed.
Please give us a review soon. Like now.....
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Louis needs to call them the 1.5 SUPER JELLY
The Speaker Stands are from Skyland. They are 20'' tall and I have them filled with sand.
I positioned the front baffle 3' from the back wall. the left speaker is only 2' from the side wall so I need to move the whole setup another 1' to the right.
Louis states these speakers require @ 50 hrs of break-in.
Dwight
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The speakers really need to be @ 5.5 ft (or more) out from the wall behind them.
Lin
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Louis needs to call them the 1.5 SUPER JELLY
The Speaker Stands are from Skyland. They are 20'' tall and I have them filled with sand.
I positioned the front baffle 3' from the back wall. the left speaker is only 2' from the side wall so I need to move the whole setup another 1' to the right.
Louis states these speakers require @ 50 hrs of break-in.
HappyRabbit, let those Outlaws break in for 50 to 100 hours before any final positioning. As an owner of Louis's Hoyt Bedford Type 1 the sound will change dramatically. It took me three weeks to get the HP's just right after break in. Please enjoy those puppies.
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Very nice :thumb: When I spoke to Louis, he seemed very excited about the sound of this model. I, ultimately decided to go with the 1.5 monitors and I'm glad I did :green:. The reason I chose the monitors is because I didn't feel my room is large enough to let the speakers breath. I agree with opnly bfld, you need to really pull them out into the room....Keep us posted. Enjoy
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Louis needs to call them the 1.5 SUPER JELLY
The Speaker Stands are from Skyland. They are 20'' tall and I have them filled with sand.
I positioned the front baffle 3' from the back wall. the left speaker is only 2' from the side wall so I need to move the whole setup another 1' to the right.
Louis states these speakers require @ 50 hrs of break-in.
Dwight
What amp are you currently running them with? Please explain "Super Jelly". Louis' speakers have always reminded me of things that are very solid, like concrete.
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Ha, he's making fun of people asking for reviews jelly = jealous. :green:
I've had bipoles in the past and 3' from the back wall is a minimum with more being better. I don't think 5.5' is a requirement but probably is close to optimal.
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DaveC113 :green: lol
Canada BOB - 2A3 SE with EML Tubes. I haven't listened to my SS Class A amp yet.
new update to the layout - 3' from the left wall and 4' from the back wall. Speakers are 7' apart and listening position is roughly 7' - 8' ( center line from the speaker plane )
opnly bafld- Thanks for the insight
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103222)
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Looks like your kitty wants the sweet spot, too! :lol:
.........Peter
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Ha, he's making fun of people asking for reviews jelly = jealous. :green:
I've had bipoles in the past and 3' from the back wall is a minimum with more being better. I don't think 5.5' is a requirement but probably is close to optimal.
Thanks Dave, for letting me in on the language of the modern english speaking world.
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DaveC113 :green: lol
Canada BOB - 2A3 SE with EML Tubes. I haven't listened to my SS Class A amp yet.
new update to the layout - 3' from the left wall and 4' from the back wall. Speakers are 7' apart and listening position is roughly 7' - 8' ( center line from the speaker plane )
opnly bafld- Thanks for the insight
Dwight
Very cool rig Dwight.
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What amp are you currently running them with? Please explain "Super Jelly". Louis' speakers have always reminded me of things that are very solid, like concrete.
Arrrrrgggg. How do they sound?????
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Here they are :green:
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103178)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103179)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103185)
HappyRabbit, we need a report on the Outlaw 1.5 Please!
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Hey Brad
My point is that Louis would add more credibility to his speaker company if he would post measurements of the finished speakers and/or the driver measurements using industry standards similar to what Eminence does:
Multiple units exceed published rating evaluated under EIA 426A noise source and test standard while in a free-air, non-temperature controlled environment.
The average output across the usable frequency range when applying 1W/1M into the nominal impedance. Ie: 2.83V/8ohms, 4V/16ohms.
Eminence response curves are measured under the following conditions: All speakers are tested at 1w/1m using a variety of test set-ups for the appropriate impedance | LMS using 0.25” supplied microphone (software
calibrated) mounted 1m from wall/baffle | 2ft. X 2ft. baffle is built into the wall with the speaker mounted flush against a steel ring for minimum diffraction | Hafler P1500 Trans-Nova amplifier | 2700 cu.ft. chamber with
fiberglass on all six surfaces (three with custom-made wedges).
The only measurements I've seen on his webpage was for the DIY 7F and 7A drivers, no longer available.
I don't get the whole "proprietary" mystique that some manufacturers use. What are you trying to hide after all. More transparency would be welcome!
Regarding where they are made, I'm almost 100% sure it is made in the USA. The 7A driver that I had didn't show the manufacture country of origin. Whats the big secret? Who makes it? It would show credibility if we knew whether it was Mepco, Eminence, etc. If its made in the USA then exploit that with transparency and get ABC news Diane Sawyer to do a special news piece on it like they have been doing for they past year or so! You can do this AND maintain your proprietary and intellectual rights IMO.
Anyway I'm done with this and won't post any more about it. Sorry if I pissed everybody off.
gab
Hi gab.
Browsing thru old posts, doing so catch up and found your post.
I Just finished reading it and I agree 100% with you.
Thanks.
Guy 13
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Here they are :green:
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103178)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103179)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103185)
Hi happyrabbit.
Nice set up.
Is the cage on the right side of the picture for rabbits ???
Or maybe for a big doggy ?
Any pictures of the four legged hairy thing ???
Guy 13
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DaveC113 :green: lol
Canada BOB - 2A3 SE with EML Tubes. I haven't listened to my SS Class A amp yet.
new update to the layout - 3' from the left wall and 4' from the back wall. Speakers are 7' apart and listening position is roughly 7' - 8' ( center line from the speaker plane )
opnly bafld- Thanks for the insight
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103222)
Hi happyrabbit.
Do you have rabbits as well as cat.
I thought I saw a putty cat ? (Famous words from tweety bird...)
Guy 13
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deleted
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HappyRabbit, we need a report on the Outlaw 1.5 Please!
Maybe he is too busy listening. :banana piano: :violin: :drums: :guitar:
:green:
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Hi All many thanks for your posts.
Sorry for the late post here, but many thanks to Happy Rabbit for posting the new Open Back. They sure look great in your room and the pictures are excellent.
Looking to expand this open back line as well.
Many thanks for everyone's support and Guy 13's last 3 posts are way to absurd to comment on.
Thanks again,
Louis
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Milford3 + Firedude - I will report soon.
Opnly bafld - Ha ! You are right.. The speakers are now 5' from the front wall.
Dwight
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Hey Brad
My point is that Louis would add more credibility to his speaker company if he would post measurements of the finished speakers and/or the driver measurements using industry standards similar to what Eminence does:
Multiple units exceed published rating evaluated under EIA 426A noise source and test standard while in a free-air, non-temperature controlled environment.
The average output across the usable frequency range when applying 1W/1M into the nominal impedance. Ie: 2.83V/8ohms, 4V/16ohms.
Eminence response curves are measured under the following conditions: All speakers are tested at 1w/1m using a variety of test set-ups for the appropriate impedance | LMS using 0.25” supplied microphone (software
calibrated) mounted 1m from wall/baffle | 2ft. X 2ft. baffle is built into the wall with the speaker mounted flush against a steel ring for minimum diffraction | Hafler P1500 Trans-Nova amplifier | 2700 cu.ft. chamber with
fiberglass on all six surfaces (three with custom-made wedges).
The only measurements I've seen on his webpage was for the DIY 7F and 7A drivers, no longer available.
I don't get the whole "proprietary" mystique that some manufacturers use. What are you trying to hide after all. More transparency would be welcome!
Regarding where they are made, I'm almost 100% sure it is made in the USA. The 7A driver that I had didn't show the manufacture country of origin. Whats the big secret? Who makes it? It would show credibility if we knew whether it was Mepco, Eminence, etc. If its made in the USA then exploit that with transparency and get ABC news Diane Sawyer to do a special news piece on it like they have been doing for they past year or so! You can do this AND maintain your proprietary and intellectual rights IMO.
Anyway I'm done with this and won't post any more about it. Sorry if I pissed everybody off.
gab
Good point, but you could go on and ask why doesn't Omega do a better job of marketing (shows, tours, reviews, interviews, postings here, even retail). My guess is that the answer is Omega is a one man show, Louis wants to keep it that way, and he's already at his production limits. I support his efforts to offer good value in the single driver format, but this kind of success could be a dead-end.
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JLM ~ others :nono:
This is a thread about happyrabbit's new speakers :thumb: , not your personal issues :cry: .
Lin
Edit: Adding what I deleted earlier to clarify Louis' post below.
The village idiots post about things they have no knowledge of and is none of their business.
Two have never even owned/heard Omega speakers.
Not word for word, but same basic thoughts.
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Hi opnly bafld,
Many thanks and I appreciate all the support by everyone here, this means the most to me. I did see your previous/first post and gave me inspiration to write my post.
You are correct in everything you wrote and there is a major agenda going on. The hi jacking of threads is an attempt by people that have never owned or Heard Omega speakers to somehow hurt my business. I take this seriously and will look into my options.
To say that they haven't a clue is an understatement. I put up a new design and here we go again with the same old same old.
It may stem from the DIY who knows. DIY is done and will never come back. One had a major influence on that decision, but not all.
I have never sold, worked with, or had any dealings with any of them on completed Omega Speakers. None to my knowledge even has heard Omega Speakers especially any of the current models.
Anyone who knows me would tell you I encourage constructive criticism. There's no egos here. Getting Rob on board is was a major move to help with the AC, Website and the Speaker Store. Soon we will have the shopping cart set up.
Learned some lessons and going full steam ahead with OutLaw's and 1.5 ways. I'm in no way at my production limits. This is an asinine thing to say and you haven't a clue about anything regarding Omega.
Thanks again,
Louis
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I agree with opnly bafld... (and posted simultaneously w /Louis)
JLM... Some of what you, G13 and gab have posted shows a lack of respect. Do you know how the saying "it's none of your business" came about? I don't... but I can imagine it was the result of people who have the same attitude you do.
I'm not sure how the speculation here is helping anything or contributing to a discussion ANYONE wants to have. In fact the opposite.
As far as shows, marketing and advertising... All that does is take away from what's really important anyway. Most people don't get involved in a business they are passionate about in order to kick ass at marketing, they do it because they actually want to build speakers, or whatever they are doing. I hope one day ZenWave is well known enough that marketing is optional because that's not what I want to do. When I have to work on my website, etc... it just takes away from work I actually want to be doing on my products.
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Hi DaveC113,
Very well said and I agree.
ZenWave will be and the product shows your passion. They are in my system and I couldn't be happier.
Thanks again,
Louis
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Why all the effort to take the fun out of such a totally satisfying and immersive hobby?
I buy and sell my equipment all the time. Rarely do I have any piece more than two years. And I mean everything. Amps, integrateds, speakers, turntables, dacs, preamps, everything. I love matching different pieces, listening for the nuances of how equipment sounds and feels together. I've had systems fall flat, and I've had combinations borderline on nirvana, but guess what? I sold them! The good, the great, the bad and everything in-between. For me it's a terrific time.
That's why I put my money where my mouth is. I want to know what these Outlaw partial open baffles sound like in my living room, period. So I ordered a pair and Louis is working on them now. I can't wait to get them into my system. If I don't like them after a thousand hours or so of listening, so what. I'll sell them and someone else can see if they fit their liking. And even if I don't like them, it doesn't mean the speakers aren't good speakers, it's how they fit into what I've provided them to perform with and how my ears perceive what is "good". Hell, I'll probably sell them anyway after a couple years even if I'm smitten with them! That's how I play my audio hobby. Christ, it's not like we're spending a million bucks here. I get them, hand made in America, in a beautiful furniture quality cherry finish for what, $1700+/-? Try and find a nice piece of furniture hand made in the US for that.
But before I can fairly and accurately judge the speakers, I'm going to try at least three different amps with them. Not just one and assume they aren't good speakers. That's not fair. We've all had great speakers not shine even with great amps. Pairing is key and the fun is putting together the pieces that bring it all together.
Then of course, you sell everything and start again.
I will post my impressions here so you guys can get another perspective.
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Good point, but you could go on and ask why doesn't Omega do a better job of marketing (shows, tours, reviews, interviews, postings here, even retail). My guess is that the answer is Omega is a one man show, Louis wants to keep it that way, and he's already at his production limits. I support his efforts to offer good value in the single driver format, but this kind of success could be a dead-end.
It wouldn't matter what we did as far as marketing, it wouldn't be good enough I guess. Four new websites in two years is a very serious effort at marketing IMO. Some surfing of the net to see how many audio websites that haven't been updated in years would be good idea, and for all we know they may be doing well.
Wrong guess - Omega is not a one man show and Louis is not (contrary to imperious wisdom) at his production limits. I have been selling Omega for years and have had NO supply issues whatsoever. Omega is THE most reliable supplier I have ever dealt with, period.
Funny way of supporting Louis' efforts. Ever bought anything from him?
Dead end? What a statement! None of us know the future, but for all any of us may know, many "big guns" could be gone before Omega. Where is Sansui, Akai, Infinity, Empire, Celestian, Micro Seiki, etc., etc? Look at many of the big British names - sold to the Chinese.
Time to treat the audio hobby like your favourite cold drink. Chill and enjoy.
My 2.2 cents worth (Canadian funds)
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Hi Kirch,
I know and it's about the music and getting enjoyment from it.
Many thanks for your post and your order of the Open Backs. They are looking great and will be ready to go this week coming up. Great to hear about all the amps you'll be trying out and can't wait to hear about the combo's.
I've gone through a lot of stuff and mostly amps. I have had so many.
Thanks again,
Louis
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Hi Canada Rob,
Thanks for all your hard work and kind words appreciate it. Can't wait for the new Hoyt website.
Thanks again,
Louis
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Kirch - :thumb:
I moved to a solid state amp and removed the plasma. I actually prefer the SS amp. I almost sold this amp last year....ooops :nono: the Plasma was messing with the sound.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=101800.0
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103746)
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Very interesting, what would you say are the differences in sound between your SS and your 2A3? I am playing with a very inexpensive class A/B chip amp with a pair of Super 3is and find it sounds really good. I love my SET sound, but SS can bring some great things to the table too.
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Canada Bob !
I found the Magnus to be a bit more lively, more punch down lower and the sound stage not soo recessed. Plus I am not burning up $1200 worth of tubes. The 2a3 is richer and has a bit more sweetness. I will need a tube preamp if I continue to use my SS amp more. The Bent TAP-X is a bit much with the Magnus. I looking forward to using my DIY TAS5611 with these speakers. :green:
Good News ! I found my stand spikes while looking for a CD. I was using a couple isolation pads as a substitute... hmmm. I should know better. :nono:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103791)
dwight
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Thanks for the update Dwight. Do you have pads to protect the floor? Electrical box punchouts, cleaned up and with a tiny dimple in the middle would be very effective. Your system looks even cooler with the TV gone. The maple speakers and the cherry sub don't clash, and they contrast and fit well with the other woodwork. The Skylan stands work really well with the speakers too.
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Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids.... how do they sound?
I also like my 1.5's better with a SS amp.Not as full sounding as the tube amp but better bass and smother highs
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I should post this as its own thread because it deserves it, but everyone should try the isoacoustics isol8r speaker stands.
I'm using three of the sub stands linked below because they were the right size and height. They are 5" tall, which ended up working for me really well. The improvement over spikes (with or w\o pads) is pretty amazing. You'll get more clarity and detail, the difference is not subtle!
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISOL8R200Sub
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Omegaisol8r_zps7a7edf27.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Omegaisol8r_zps7a7edf27.jpg.html)
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Dave113 - Very Interesting Stands.
Size Comparison - 1.5 OB vs 3XRS
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103880)
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Dave, good looking speakers.
I am seriously considering one of Louis' design...really like the Outlaw OB.
I have to agree about the isoacoustics isol8r stands. I'm using them and the improvement goes from the bottom end to top. They are cheap and really do work. A difference can be heard even on their youtube demo.
Lary
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Hi Flyin_V,
Many thanks and I appreciate it a lot.
These new stands look fantastic and they are modular too. I will check them out too.
Thanks,
Louis
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Over the last couple years I have discovered that ' less is more '. I will be adding dipole speakers to my list :
1) NOS DAC's
2) SET AMPS
3) TVC PREAMPS
4) SINGLE DRIVER SPEAKERS
*5) Dipole Speakers
I have listened to both the 3 XRS and the 1.5 OB. I absolutely LOVE the 3 XRS and have no reservations recommending it. That being stated, I observed the following listening to the 1.5 OB :
1> The Sound Stage is Wider and Deeper. 1.5 OB literally disappear.
2> Uncolored. A more life like portrayal.
3> More dynamic and capable of serious SPL. I luv turning these speakers up !
4> Resolving. You will hear the Mixing / Mastering as intended... this is Wonderful and sometimes not soo Wonderful.
5> SS or SET. Take your Pick.
6> Enjoyable off axis listening. Perfect for 2.1 Home Theater.
I feel the 1.5 OB have a few requirements that need to be meet :
1) At least 5 feet from the back wall
2) At least 3 feet from the side wall
3) At least 7 feet apart and sitting at least 7' - 8' feet away.
4) Based on #1 & #2 & #3 - 13' x 19' room or larger
5) Given the Room requirement stated in #4 - a SUBWOOFER is a must.
6) The Flat Panel needs to be mounted on the Wall. I got the impression that my plasma was resonating / reflecting and adding to the Sound Stage when placed coplanar (or near coplannar) with the 1.5's.
Dwight
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Perfect timing with this info Dwight, thanks! Just had my 1.5 OB's delivered today and was asking Rob about placement. Always had traditional speakers to this point. Looking forward to breaking these in - and honestly, I'm already hearing some improvement after about 5 hours.
Right now they're around 4-5 feet from the back wall and 4' from the sides of a 14 x 26' room w 10' ceilings. I have them toed in just a smidge. Here's a pic before I pushed them together further and further out from the back wall.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104113)
Once these are broken in I'll start posting some impressions. Thanks!
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Kirch,
Looking forward to your review :thumb:
its roughly 100 hours to break-in the RS-5 driver... 95 hours to go :green:
is that an omega sub ??
Dwight
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Hey Dwight - no it's just some sub I had laying around, a Mirage. I have a matching cherry sub on the way tho. Lou had the nerve to take a vacation while working on it.
I should have 100 hours on them about a week or less. I can run this stuff pretty all day as I work from home. Right now the Yo Yo Ma is sounding quite nice. It's a different presentation than what I'm accustomed to, but as I duck in and outta the room either I'm getting used to it or it's smoothing out.
Happy to keep everyone posted.
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Hi All many thanks for your posts.
Sorry for the late post here, but many thanks to Happy Rabbit for posting the new Open Back. They sure look great in your room and the pictures are excellent.
Looking to expand this open back line as well.
Many thanks for everyone's support and Guy 13's last 3 posts are way to absurd to comment on.
Thanks again,
Louis
Hi Louis.
Thanks for the compliment.
By the way, it's " way too absurd " not way to absurd.
If you ant to insult me, do it properly. :lol:
In my past 5 years with AC you are the first and only one that did not liked my " absurd " jokes,
maybe it a question of culture ?
Now, that being said, you can now send to the Intergalactic waste bin my post,
if that makes you happy.
Guy 13
Humm mmm... After writing this, I feel relieved.
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Kirch,
I agree that these speakers have a different presentation. I don't have much exp with dipoles.
breaking your speakers in with YO YO MA. HA ! See Below for my break-in music :green:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104182)
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Re YoYo, yeah, I wanted to hear how the speakers presented solo cello. Quite nicely btw. One of my favorite break-in tunes? The 60Hz tone. (I generated an hour long loop.) Gets a little boring after the first 40 minutes or so . . .
Have Charlie Haden and Pat Metheny Beyond the Missouri Sky playing now. Very realistic, even without the sub. (better with though)
Did a lot of listening yesterday, even took notes. I'll post those after a few days. So far so good!
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I should post this as its own thread because it deserves it, but everyone should try the isoacoustics isol8r speaker stands.
I'm using three of the sub stands linked below because they were the right size and height. They are 5" tall, which ended up working for me really well. The improvement over spikes (with or w\o pads) is pretty amazing. You'll get more clarity and detail, the difference is not subtle!
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISOL8R200Sub
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Omegaisol8r_zps7a7edf27.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Omegaisol8r_zps7a7edf27.jpg.html)
Dave, what spikes are you using? (as those don't look to be the regular ones that are on my speakers and/or from Louis' site.)
I've been looking at ones from Sound Star that look very interesting and are reasonably priced using their Live Vibe Technology (http://www.audiopoints.com/liveVibe.php).
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Hi beowulf, those came with my speakers many years ago so I'm not sure....
Stercom just sent me a bunch of different footers to try out on my components, but I would say for my speakers the isol8r stands have been MUCH better than the sort of products sold by audiopoints. However, for my setup I think having the speakers spiked to the stand may be a good way to go, but ONLY because the isol8r stand is right under them.
I'd ask Steve at Herbie's Audio Labs, this stuff is his specialty and based on the Herbie Talk thread in the GR circle I think we agree about isolation/decoupling being the right approach, which is the opposite of audiopoints.
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Hi Louis.
Thanks for the compliment.
By the way, it's " way too absurd " not way to absurd.
If you ant to insult me, do it properly. :lol:
In my past 5 years with AC you are the first and only one that did not liked my " absurd " jokes,
maybe it a question of culture ?
Now, that being said, you can now send to the Intergalactic waste bin my post,
if that makes you happy.
Guy 13
Humm mmm... After writing this, I feel relieved.
If you're going to correct spelling of another person, you'd better ensure your spelling and grammar is accurate.
"If you want to...."
"....not like my "absurd"...."
Also, capital letters to start a sentence, and no capital for "intergalactic".
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If you're going to correct spelling of another person, you'd better ensure your spelling and grammar is accurate.
"If you want to...."
"....not like my "absurd"...."
Also, capital letters to start a sentence, and no capital for "intergalactic".
Hi Good Times.
Thanks for your grammar lesson, as you probably know already,
I am a French Canadian, therefore English is my second language
that I have learned all by myself, and it shows... :lol:
I will accept any help from a genuine English speaking person.
If you are commenting my post, it's probably because you are
a VIP member of the Omega (Fan) club.
Well, good for you and bad for me.
Please feel free to correct me any time you want.
Thanks.
Guy 13
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Hi beowulf, those came with my speakers many years ago so I'm not sure....
Stercom just sent me a bunch of different footers to try out on my components, but I would say for my speakers the isol8r stands have been MUCH better than the sort of products sold by audiopoints. However, for my setup I think having the speakers spiked to the stand may be a good way to go, but ONLY because the isol8r stand is right under them.
I'd ask Steve at Herbie's Audio Labs, this stuff is his specialty and based on the Herbie Talk thread in the GR circle I think we agree about isolation/decoupling being the right approach, which is the opposite of audiopoints.
Hi Dave, have you tried Audio Points specifically or read their research paper on Coulomb Friction (http://www.audiopoints.com/CMS/uploads/vibration-and-coulomb-friction-2013_001.pdf)? I found it an interesting read and find their theories seem more aligned with how a sound resonance dissipates itself naturally rather than trying to deaden/dampen which seems to me it would dull out some dynamics. Although I've never tried either one, so I don't have an actual opinion on the better route to go.
I asked Steve in the GR Herbie's thread and he called a basic theory of physics (all energy seeks [earth's] ground via the fastest method it derives) malarkey :o. I'm not sure if he thought it was a threatening question and it was certainly not my intention to bring it up in that matter, but I was hoping he could expound scientifically a little on why his method would be better, but lets just say I don't think he liked my question :green:.
At any rate now that I have some kick ass speaker and interconnect cables, I plan on experimenting with some sound resonance techniques (shortly after Christmas that is :lol:)
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That "white paper" was copied and pasted from here:
http://fsinet.fsid.cvut.cz/en/u2052/node121.html
The conclusions they come to seem dubious at best. Stuff like what is quoted below makes me wonder if the author has a technical education at all. The issue being, the isolation device has damping qualities which reduce the magnitude of the vibration until it stops, or if the input is continuous there will be a degree of attenuation. An isolation device would have to allow movement of the device it is isolating with absolutely no friction in order to not reduce the magnitude of the vibration and serve as a "resonance capacitor". However, this is the exact opposite goal of people who design isolation devices. Isolation devices are designed to attenuate the magnitude of vibration, not preserve it! The isolation device has mechanical properties that allow it to convert motion (vibration) into heat at a molecular level. This is where the vibration dissipates and it doesn't need to "seek earth's ground", which is a ridiculous concept.
This is demonstrated in one of Herbie's Audio Labs pages that show the effectiveness of the isolation material used at different frequencies, and the attenuation is significant, and ranges from approximately 16-50 dB from 20 Hz on up throughout the audible frequency spectrum. That's a lot of attenuation and in fact the exact opposite of a "resonance capacitor".
I do have a degree in mechanical engineering and I can say that while the math on that paper is accurate (only because it was copied and pasted), the conclusions are laughable. I'm sure Steve doesn't want to get into something where it could be said he has a bias and creates a conflict of interest, but I do not sell any isolation products at all, so I am more than happy to say that the entire premise behind that paper seems flawed to me.
"With regards to airborne resonance, isolation principles serve much like the dielectric material in a capacitance device, essentially turning the component into a giant Resonance Capacitor. "
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NOTE: SPEAKERS WERE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING BROKEN IN WHEN I WROTE THIS INITIAL IMPRESSION.
First of all, I haven't the slightest idea what any of that stuff means that Dave posted above, and I never will. I just like to listen, and I know what I like when I hear it. Which leads to some initial impressions of the Outlaws . . .
Active listening started Sunday after running the Outlaws for about 60-70 hours so they're close to being broken in. On Dwights recommendation, I have them set up 6’ from rear wall and 4’ from the sides, so that puts them about 7.5 feet apart and I’m sitting about 8 feet out. Swapped out amps and dacs, mixed and matched, made adjustments to the subwoofer crossover and output. All in all put in about 4-5 hours of listening.
Here it is Monday morning and I thought I’d do a little listening before settling into work for the day. The system today is Audio Note OTO integrated 10 wpc and the Benchmark solid state dac. Cables are Analysis Plus throughout including power cables. I forget which ones but they’re close to their top of the line. Tunes are streamed through a squeezebox from my computer upstairs. All audio is lossless FLAC ripped from CD. With the family gone to work and school it was time for a little high volume music. NOTE: Loud to me is probably not as loud as it is for you, but it's loud enough that you can't have a conversation without raising your voice.
When I crank up the tunes, I like Porcupine Tree. Steven Wilson is an amazing musician, and if this were 1975 his stuff would be all over the AOR airwaves. (If you’re unfamiliar with him, think Pink Floyd, Rush, Yes.) Sadly this isn’t, and he ain’t. Solo, with Porcupine Tree or with others, I listen to his stuff often. I find his songs engaging, and they’re very well recorded and engineered. He’s guitar and synth heavy with a lot of textures and nuances throughout. Some of his heavier stuff almost gives Metallica a run for their money. Today, it’s The Sky Moves Sideways, Disc 1.
First off, the Outlaw Open Backs go loud, so volume is not an issue. Rated at 94 db +/- there is no problem with distortion free high volume clarity and presentation. At no point did I feel the Outlaws were even close to straining. The key for me is to get the sub settings to match well with the Outlaws. Output is about 5.5 of 10 and the crossover is set at about 70 give or take. For my ears and the current component configuration, this offers the right blend of lows and bass supplement to the midrange.
Without mentioning specific tunes, my impressions are good. Lots of space in the songs. Wilson uses a ton synths, echoes, reverb and various treatments on his instruments that really add to my engagement when listening. Soundstage from the Outlaws is deep and broad. Imaging, detail and three dimensionality is almost on par with some of the better and more expensive speakers I’ve had the pleasure to own over the years (Audio Note ANJ-Spe and Von Schweikert VR 33). Overall a very enjoyable listening experience. Passages of these tunes seem to float around the room as the speakers get lost. Other sections where Wilson really rocks on his guitar are also very well presented.
My only issue is that this style of speaker lends itself to being a bit on the lean or forward side - and I knew that going in - and I’m determined to find the right blend of position, component matching and sub crossover to get this under control. The slightest bump in sub crossover and output makes a pleasant difference. Frankly I really enjoy tweaking and coaxing this system to get what I want out of it. To me, that’s one of the great things about this hobby.
So far, so good! More to come.
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My only issue is that this style of speaker lends itself to being a bit on the lean or forward side - and I knew that going in - and I’m determined to find the right blend of position, component matching and sub crossover to get this under control. The slightest bump in sub crossover and output makes a pleasant difference.
Had an "ah ha" moment yesterday. It occurred to me that I had read something about solid core vs. stranded speaker wire and their specific characteristics. I've been using Anti-cables for years on "regular" speakers, and was using them with the Outlaws. Big mistake. :duh:
Switched to 12 gauge stranded. Wow. Very, very big difference. Now THIS is more like it! These sound like a different pair of speakers. Really opens up and smooths out the midrange. Leanness is gone, forwardness, gone. Not a hint of fatigue.
I knew there was some reason these weren't sounding as expected!
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Excellent update kirch :banana piano:
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Had an "ah ha" moment yesterday. It occurred to me that I had read something about solid core vs. stranded speaker wire and their specific characteristics. I've been using Anti-cables for years on "regular" speakers, and was using them with the Outlaws. Big mistake. :duh:
Switched to 12 gauge stranded. Wow. Very, very big difference. Now THIS is more like it! These sound like a different pair of speakers. Really opens up and smooths out the midrange. Leanness is gone, forwardness, gone. Not a hint of fatigue.
I knew there was some reason these weren't sounding as expected!
Hi kirch,
Lower speaker stands would improve things even further. Also, as the speakers get closer to the floor your bass will increase, fleshing everything out.
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Had an "ah ha" moment yesterday. It occurred to me that I had read something about solid core vs. stranded speaker wire and their specific characteristics. I've been using Anti-cables for years on "regular" speakers, and was using them with the Outlaws. Big mistake. :duh:
Switched to 12 gauge stranded. Wow. Very, very big difference. Now THIS is more like it! These sound like a different pair of speakers. Really opens up and smooths out the midrange. Leanness is gone, forwardness, gone. Not a hint of fatigue.
I knew there was some reason these weren't sounding as expected!
Lol, I have a set of anti-cables on my shelf, right where they belong! :lol:
You can do a lot better than stranded 12g cable too... the 17g SL speaker cables I sell will be a huge upgrade. :wink:
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x3 re Anticables!
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Tuesday, Sept 2
Over the weekend I switched in some all copper Analysis Plus Oval 12’s to try and lessen the brightness. Initially not thrilled. Dulled down or veiled the highs too much. Let's try interconnect swapping because I have a variety around here.
So it’s been an interconnect swap-fest today. I kept the Oval 12's in for this experiment. Really cool to experience the differences. Funny (or should I say “sadly") that the best sounding interconnects were $50 Clarity Labs and two different $70 interconnects from Rapport that I bought from Bill at Response Audio at least 10 years ago. All three totally kicked the ass of the Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Ovals I took out of the system, which were about $400 a pair if I recall, maybe more. That being said the AP interconnects all together, sounded wonderful with the Audio Note AN-J’s. The Outlaws are just different animals with different needs. And there’s something in the makeup of all three pair of these less expensive interconnects that bring even more life to the Outlaws.
Swapping the Acoustic Zen M2 Digital Crystal Reference to the Acoustic Zen “silver bytes” made no audible difference, although it did affect my wallet at the time of purchase. I don’t recall what I spent on these digital cables, but I think it was between $125 and $200 with the Reference costing more than the silver bytes.
Lesson learned? You never know what's gonna work best together. If like me, you tend to bounce from component to component, you better plan on building a nice collection of interconnects of all varieties, ‘cause you never know which ones will bring your system’s sound to the next level.
And Dave - thanks for the input. Louis is sending me a pair of your cables for me to try, not sure which ones though. I'll let everyone know which ones and how they fair. And that stranded 12 gauge stuff I tried was tinned OFC. Not bad. Not great. A friend recommended I try some teflon/silver coated OFC. Gonna try that too.
Re the anti-cables, I have to say in the right setup, I like them. Not for solid state, but in my experience if you have a overly laid back tube system or speakers (read British), I like how they help tighten things up and help clean up the higher frequencies. Right now I'm using them for the connection to the sub to effectively tighten up a flabby low end. Still awaiting the sub from Louis. Should be here in a week or two.
More to come.
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Hello Russell,
Yes I am sold, and have been for over five years since I heard my first Omegas. You must be sold on the brands you mention too, even to the point of putting a link on this circle to a review of a competitors product. I have been in audio for years and heard just about every kind of speaker in those years and haven't found a speaker that matches the Omegas...at any price. I have not heard a dud from Louis and being a dealer I have heard quite a few of his speakers.
Tekton OB4.5 ar LONG out of production, so no - it is not a competitive product.
For one I'd like to see the specs of the RS5 driver and country of origin too. I had a number of Omega speakers (still have xr3) with Fostex, Hemp, Alnico and other drivers, including the ones with the new RS5 driver. They are not "magic" - they suffer from the same exact problems most single driver speakers do. The cabinetry work is first class though.
This new design of "hybrid" open baffle seems to be a bit of a compromise. I'd like to hear them to form my own impressions.
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Tekton OB4.5 ar LONG out of production, so no - it is not a competitive product.
For one I'd like to see the specs of the RS5 driver and country of origin too. I had a number of Omega speakers (still have xr3) with Fostex, Hemp, Alnico and other drivers, including the ones with the new RS5 driver. They are not "magic" - they suffer from the same exact problems most single driver speakers do. The cabinetry work is first class though.
This new design of "hybrid" open baffle seems to be a bit of a compromise. I'd like to hear them to form my own impressions.
Not sure anyone is claiming "magic" whatever that means. The RS5 covers about 40-20,000 Hz with a very even frequency response compared to most other single drivers.
Your post is on the negative side without actually saying anything except Omega speakers are not "magic", they have "problems" and are "a bit of a compromise". OK, fine. That is true of every speaker in the entire world. Your point?
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Not sure anyone is claiming "magic" whatever that means. The RS5 covers about 40-20,000 Hz with a very even frequency response compared to most other single drivers.
Your post is on the negative side without actually saying anything except Omega speakers are not "magic", they have "problems" and are "a bit of a compromise". OK, fine. That is true of every speaker in the entire world. Your point?
So can we see the plot on the 40-20,000 Hz response of the RS5 driver, including impedance curves so we can actualy compare to most other single drivers :wink:
My point is that fan clubs are not usually the best source of unbiased information on the product - speakers or otherwise. I'm not trying to be an ass, it's just when it comes to comparing products it is easier to bring out and compare the negative aspects of it. Singing praises is hardly helpful and is mostly the job of 6moons audio poets.
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So can we see the plot on the 40-20,000 Hz response of the RS5 driver, including impedance curves so we can actualy compare to most other single drivers :wink:
My point is that fan clubs are not usually the best source of unbiased information on the product - speakers or otherwise. I'm not trying to be an ass, it's just when it comes to comparing products it is easier to bring out and compare the negative aspects of it. Singing praises is hardly helpful and is mostly the job of 6moons audio poets.
Than maybe you should be more specific so there's actually something to discuss. When you say "problems" and "a bit of a compromise", that is far too vague to be meaningful nor is it likely to lead to a reasonable discussion about anything, as that criticism is in the nature of building any speaker. Even speakers that cost more than my house could be said to be "a bit of a compromise", and thus have "problems". It seems like you just came here to bitch, and say "Omega speakers just aren't all that, man!" Which is hardly useful, even less useful that the aspersions you cast on everyone here by labeling this forum a "fan club".
You say you have a set of Omegas with the RS5 driver, why don't you measure them yourself? And if you really want to have a discussion, which I seriously doubt, come back with something a little more insightful please. You're bringing down the overall quality of posts here to a dismal level.
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Sorry you feel that way, Dave. Listening to some music should cheer you up :thumb:
The things I vaguely mentioned as single driver problems is off axis frequency response, "shout" region in the 7-8k. Adding a second driver introduces phase shift, is no longer a single point, etc. Omega is not imune to these problems. Last I checked Louis was not using notch filters in his single driver speakers to rectify the shout region (heck, even Lowther builders use it) and the Super Alnico 8 I had were shouty (sorry :( )
So these would be the negatives. Positives of single driver speaker - high sensitivity, easy to drive with tube amps, coherent single point source - all attributes of Omega single driver speakers.
Having manufacturers spec sheets and doing the measurements yourself is two VERY different things - manufacturers have to adhere to industry standards in doing the measurements (anechoic chambers, measurement equipment, etc).
I had 5 or 6 pairs of Omega speakers that I used with mostly tube (2a3, 300b, EL84) amps and some D-class. I also own or owned variuos Tekton and Zu single driver speakers. You could say I'm a single driver speaker fan. I am just more critical in my opinion - sorry if I hurt someone's feelings.
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I'm not in need of cheering up, but thanks for assuming that I do. :thumb:
Ok... off-axis freq response isn't a problem. Many consider the dispersion pattern an advantage, but it depends on the diameter of the driver. I find the RS5 to be a good size to get controlled directivity without beaming too much. When used nearfield it reduces room interactions to the point they are not a major factor anymore.
I don't think the newest Omega driver are shouty at all and a notch filter would do more harm than good imo. The midrange bump is much less than in most other single drivers.
Also, not sure if you've compared Omega to Voxativ, Zellaton and Feastrex... those speakers cost FAR more than Omega and the performance is pretty comparable. Personally, I haven't heard a Lowther speaker that's nearly as good as Omegas and I've heard a few.
All speakers must compromise to some degree in some area, so not every speaker is a good fit for all tastes. I think people here are plenty willing to admit that, but there's also some things the Omegas do incredibly well. If high SPLs and dynamics that will give old ladies heart attacks and scare children are a priority then I don't think anyone would think a single driver from any brand would be a good choice. I've even said many times I don't feel like single drivers are the ideal compromise for me, but they are the right compromise given my priorities and my budget. If I could spend $10k+ on speakers I might own something different... but the forthcoming Speed12/RS5 outlaw combo would be nearly ideal for my preferences.
As for the 1.5 way design, sure it's a compromise too, but the xover point is low enough so it's not a major issue and I think most people would find it to be an improvement. I'd like to hear a pair too...
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As for the 1.5 way design, sure it's a compromise too, but the xover point is low enough so it's not a major issue and I think most people would find it to be an improvement. I'd like to hear a pair too...
the problem with crossovers is that they introduce their own phase shifts and additional impedance to a driver. In Omega's 1.5 design the mid-high driver then should be attenuated to even out the response or find other ways of doing it. The crossover point is also high enough to be in the vocal region where it affects the sound of the speaker the most. Again, that's all theory - I'd like to hear it.
My favorite speaker is Tekton OB4.5, and there the solutions were quite interesting. Would be interesting to see how these two would compare.
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My understanding is that the 1.5's don't use a crossover per se. Just an inductor on the bass driver which serves as low pass at 500Hz. The main driver runs full range and gets signal straight from amp as with the single driver speakers.
My question about the design is in the balance of frequencies. I don't understand electronics enough to know what changes in the FR curve there might be. The second driver increases sensitivity substantially and reduces impedance to 4 ohm. That will alter the sound of the main driver compared to a single driver version. But does the second driver just augment everything below 500 or is the balance now shifted so that range, particularly 300 or so to 500 isn't too strong? (I'm think in terms of the ported box design, not the OB, but don't know if that's relevant).
.....Peter
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My understanding is that the 1.5's don't use a crossover per se. Just an inductor on the bass driver which serves as low pass at 500Hz. The main driver runs full range and gets signal straight from amp as with the single driver speakers.
My question about the design is in the balance of frequencies. I don't understand electronics enough to know what changes in the FR curve there might be. The second driver increases sensitivity substantially and reduces impedance to 4 ohm. That will alter the sound of the main driver compared to a single driver version. But does the second driver just augment everything below 500 or is the balance now shifted so that range, particularly 300 or so to 500 isn't too strong? (I'm think in terms of the ported box design, not the OB, but don't know if that's relevant).
.....Peter
And that's what requires an actual audition. There may be some theoretical problems with OB+box design running in overlapping frequencies on the same axis pole, but I am not very well versed in all that phase-refraction-frequency stuff.
Tekton's solution was to put the second driver in phase at 90 degree angle behind the OB driver working in low-mid region, which was "sucking" lower frequency back wave from the OB driver, allowing higher dipole frequencies to disperse behind the baffle and directing lower frequencies out the front facing port. That design resulted in very wide and accurate soundstage with believable bass response from 4" driver.
Louis' design puts full range into OB and "augments" lower frequencies with additional driver. If there is no crossover for the OB driver there may be some phase problems affecting low frequency response, especially with the port facing back and speaker closer to the back wall. Who knows, maybe I don't really know what I'm talking about :scratch:
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And that's what requires an actual audition. There may be some theoretical problems with OB+box design running in overlapping frequencies on the same axis pole, but I am not very well versed in all that phase-refraction-frequency stuff.
Tekton's solution was to put the second driver in phase at 90 degree angle behind the OB driver working in low-mid region, which was "sucking" lower frequency back wave from the OB driver, allowing higher dipole frequencies to disperse behind the baffle and directing lower frequencies out the front facing port. That design resulted in very wide and accurate soundstage with believable bass response from 4" driver.
Louis' design puts full range into OB and "augments" lower frequencies with additional driver. If there is no crossover for the OB driver there may be some phase problems affecting low frequency response, especially with the port facing back and speaker closer to the back wall. Who knows, maybe I don't really know what I'm talking about :scratch:
I think it just reflects what you said first. It is difficult to know how it will sound without listening to it. We can go by reviews, but that's second hand info. It worked for me the first time. I have his newer Super 7 XRS Alnico which is quite nice. Nice enough that I want to move up Louis' line. But, again, have to go on recommendations and opinions, this time about the improvement with his original Alnico instead of the RS7A and, to an even greater extent, with the 1.5 design.
.....Peter
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Hello ClefChef,
I checked out your gallery and if the system you are currently running is the one with the Wright Monos and OB4.5s, my guess is it would be very sweet sounding indeed. Now all you'll have to do is try a set of Omega 1.5 Partial Open Backs so we can all know the differences. :D
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Hello ClefChef,
I checked out your gallery and if the system you are currently running is the one with the Wright Monos and OB4.5s, my guess is it would be very sweet sounding indeed. Now all you'll have to do is try a set of Omega 1.5 Partial Open Backs so we can all know the differences. :D
Maybe if those are in the area and available for audition. I auditioned (bought and sold) a lot of speakers (Tekton and Omega) and always came back to OB4.5 as nothing sounded better in that particular setup. I just wish somebody would resurrect this wonderful design with better drivers and cabinetry. I spoke with Eric at Tekton about it and the answer was NO citing high cost and low interest (read - little profit). I hope the design is not proprietary and Omega could borrow some ideas :roll:
As for the Outlaw - let's see what the current owners are saying, and if they hold on to them or try to "upgrade" those speakers soon :wink:
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If there is no crossover for the OB driver there may be some phase problems affecting low frequency response, especially with the port facing back and speaker closer to the back wall. Who knows, maybe I don't really know what I'm talking about :scratch:
There is a crossover, it's just a single inductor that rolls the driver off at 6 dB/oct from the xo point. Issues with interference depend on distance between the drivers and frequency, since they are crossed over low there won't be any issues in the overlap area. This is reasonably popular configuration to run, usually in 2.5 way instead of 1.5 way as slim tower speakers can't use large woofers so they use 2 of the same woofers, often with different crossover points. IMO, the "purity" and coherence single driver speakers offer isn't going to be taken away with this design. Happyrabbit owned both so you could check out his comparison too.
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There is a crossover, it's just a single inductor that rolls the driver off at 6 dB/oct from the xo point. Issues with interference depend on distance between the drivers and frequency, since they are crossed over low there won't be any issues in the overlap area. This is reasonably popular configuration to run, usually in 2.5 way instead of 1.5 way as slim tower speakers can't use large woofers so they use 2 of the same woofers, often with different crossover points. IMO, the "purity" and coherence single driver speakers offer isn't going to be taken away with this design. Happyrabbit owned both so you could check out his comparison too.
I think we are dealing with semantics around terms like crossover and low pass filter, etc. But saying the same thing.
Happyrabbit, I lost track, sorry. You have the 1.5 OB. What is the single driver model have or had? Care to compare/contrast the two in sound?
Thanks.....
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I think we are dealing with semantics around terms like crossover and low pass filter, etc. But saying the same thing.
Thanks.....
Yes! Most people think of a collection of parts that make up a crossover or filter, but it's not that, it's just a single component, an inductor. It is a crossover and a low pass filter, the simplest one possible.
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Yes! Most people think of a collection of parts that make up a crossover or filter, but it's not that, it's just a single component, an inductor. It is a crossover and a low pass filter, the simplest one possible.
It's not a crossover - it's just a low pass filter. Crossover splits frequencies into bands insuring that there is little or no overlap in frequencies between drivers.
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I hope the design is not proprietary and Omega could borrow some ideas.
It appears you are assuming by looking at the designs of the two speakers without hearing the Omega, that the Omega is inferior and in need of some of Tekton's technology. What press I have read on the Tektons has been all positive, so I don't doubt it is (was) a good speaker, but to seriously compare the two, they need to go head to head...but then, why bother, the OB4.5 is discontinued. :duh:
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What press I have read on the Tektons has been all positive, so I don't doubt it is (was) a good speaker, but to seriously compare the two, they need to go head to head...but then, why bother, the OB4.5 is discontinued.
Looking at the Tekton Website, it appears that the OB4.5 might be resurrected. It's says that there is a model 4.5 V2 that's presently in the design phase. Maybe sometime in the near future, we can get a relevant comparison.
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Looking at the Tekton Website, it appears that the OB4.5 might be resurrected. It's says that there is a model 4.5 V2 that's presently in the design phase. Maybe sometime in the near future, we can get a relevant comparison.
They refer to the regular boxed and ported 4.5 monitor, similar to xr3
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Outlaw Partial Open Baffle (revised)
NOTE: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE TELLS ME THE OUTLAWS NEED AT LEAST 400 HOURS OF BREAK IN TIME. STILL NOT BROKEN IN FOR THIS REVIEW.
Appearance wise, they're a gorgeous speaker, I have the level two finish in cherry (see my earlier post with pic). The comments I get from everyone is typically "cool!" I agree. Price was around $1700 plus shipping.
I currently listen through an Audio Note OTO Sig 10 WPC EL 34 integrated and an Audio Note 3.1 dac with a bunch of tubes, the sizes of which I can't recall. I use an unmodded Squeezebox Touch to stream 44,100, 16 bit or better wav and aif's, no mp3's. Vinyl is through a Music Hall 9.1 with a Linn Klyde low output moving coil. Phono pre is Nova Phenomena II. The room is 13' x 25' with 10' ceilings. I'd call it somewhat acoustically lively, which I prefer.
During the past two or three months, I put in a couple hundred hours listening to Jazz, Blues, Rock, Classical, Bluegrass and some of my usual weird stuff (Terje Rypdal, Brian Eno, Jon Hassel, etc.). Here are my thoughts.
IF you love jazz, acoustic guitar, piano, classical, and any sort of music that doesn’t rock out, you will be in love with the Outlaw Partial Open Baffle 1.5s.
IF you need to play anything else, then you may want to look elsewhere in the Omega line, because for me the Outlaws fall a little short with rock. And it’s not just because they’re a bit bass light - I have a decent quality sub hooked up to supplement the lows - there’s just something about their presentation of heavier stuff, and I don’t mean Metallica (although oddly enough, Black Sabbath's first album sounds great on these - go figure). I mean Genesis, (older), Yes, Dire Straits, Roxy Music. Maybe it's their more forward presentation than I'm accustomed to, I can't quite put my finger on it. Swapping different speaker and interconnect cables does make a noticeable difference, and I tried numerous varieties, from the cheap to the not so cheap. I can say working often with the sub crossover and volume helps a lot. Seems obvious but when I found heavier tunes to be a big too forward or thin, I felt the need to bump sub volume and crossover up. I have yet to find that perfect setting for it though.
What really worked for me? Anything acoustic - John Abercrombie solo acoustic guitar was stunning, as was John McLaughlin, also Hope Sandoval, Miles Davis Seven Steps to Heaven, Muddy Waters Folk Singer, most Pat Metheny. Chick Coreas Trio Music Live in Europe - especially the first three tunes - which really can get pretty “up”, are nothing less than breathtaking. Absolutely perfect. Right now I’m listening to Hope Sandoval’s “Lose Me On The Way” and it’s blowing me away. The Outlaws shine when presenting ethereal type tunes like these, this also applies to most of the ECM label library of which I have a ton. Imaging, presentation, multidimensionality, all stellar. The more relaxed stuff from Jeff Beck’s two mid ’70’s fusion albums - Blow by Blow and Wired were terrific too. Some of the heavier stuff like Blue Wind and Scatterbrain was actually pretty good too, but not as nice as the mellower cuts. (Side Note - re the Jeff Beck stuff - isn't it cool to hear that 70's stuff you pretty much only heard in your car on your Pioneer SuperTuner 8-track player, on a good home system?)
These things present delicate and nuanced music with as much fun and accuracy as I can ever recall hearing. As in “wow, they’re playing right in front of me”. Want to hear Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong perform live, in person in you own living room? Listen to the hi-res version of "Ella and Louis" through the Outlaw partial open backs. Totally cool. My wife even commented on how great it was. Violins too. The Stephane Grappelli - Oscar Peterson in Paris album was a borderline religious experience. So depending on your music preferences, the Outlaw Partial Open Baffle speaker could very well be the last speakers you ever buy, they're that good. Spend more time rocking' out? Talk to Louis and ask about which speakers better handle the beefier tunes.
Finally, I’m fortunate to have another pair of nice speakers that I can slide in and out when I feel the need to play heavier stuff. Is this the optimal setup for me? Of course not. But for now, I’m happy with it.
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Thanks for posting that Kirch. I really appreciated you taking the time to share your thoughts, which incidentally pretty much match how I feel about my RS5 based Omegas and basically, single driver speakers in general.
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Something I'm not sure I presented strongly enough, is these must be accompanied by a sub woofer. And the more you fiddle with your sub settings, the happier you'll be with rock. I had supplemented "regular" speakers with a sub in the past, but with just enough volume and crossover to fill in the lows that my speakers didn't cover. These need a much higher crossover point where the sub also interacts with the midrange. In my opinion it helps with the natural forwardness of this type speaker while rounding out the presentation.
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Something I'm not sure I presented strongly enough, is these must be accompanied by a sub woofer. And the more you fiddle with your sub settings, the happier you'll be with rock. I had supplemented "regular" speakers with a sub in the past, but with just enough volume and crossover to fill in the lows that my speakers didn't cover. These need a much higher crossover point where the sub also interacts with the midrange. In my opinion it helps with the natural forwardness of this type speaker while rounding out the presentation.
I'll have to generally endorse what is being said here. After living with my Super 3U's for some months I finally decided to re-examine my sub settings. As it turns out I now get a more "fleshed" out presentation when I set the speakers to large instead of small in the AVR and when I slightly increased the volume on the sub. My plan is to add another Boston sub in December. Too many nulls in the room and this should correct it... easy enough. Xover I found at 60Hz to still be optimum. That may change however when sub 2 is placed in room. And yes, acoustic pieces are absolutely STUNNING with the speakers, high or low volume.
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At the risk of wearing out my welcome in this string, a couple additional observations.
Initially Louis had told me that the Outlaw Open Backs sound great right outta the box, but that 50 hours of break in should be sufficient. My guess is closer to 150-200 hours, possibly even more. I've read many arguments regarding break-in period vs. ears simply growing accustomed to each speaker's personality. I buy into the combination of the two. That being said, the Open Backs are now better handling a bigger variety of music with more authority and clarity - rock specifically. I'm enjoying heavier music than just a week ago when I posted my long-winded review in which I identified this as a shortcoming.
Also, something I forgot to mention last week. If your amp allows for 4 or 8 ohm speaker connections, try the 8 ohm. In my system 8 sounds better than 4. Soundstage broadened with more definition. This is something I've tried with other speakers over the years with little or no difference between the two. Was surprised at how this change from 4 to 8 made such a noticeable improvement. I'm not saying it's perfect now, just better with time.
Lastly, the deep Omega 8 shown on the Omega site is now in my living room. Stylish match to the cherry speakers. Took a couple hours to find just the right spot for it, as I was unfamiliar with down-firing subs. It's now about 8" from the side wall and 1.5' from the rear wall.
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Kirch,
Thanks for the update. Would you consider louis's new 12 inch sub ?? kongos lunatic / disclosure settle sound absolutely amazing on my setup. Your review is well written, thoughtful and way less rambling than a 6moons review :thumb:
pstrisik,
See page 4. I have owned the following : super 7xrs, 3xrs, 1.5 OB, and the h1 from holistic audio.
http://www.holisticaudio.com/HolisticAudio/H1_(Discontinued).html
UPDATE
i recently moved to oregon last week. I have attached pics of my setup with a new preamp. I sold my tap-x for a ecc99 based preamp from Elliott Studio Arts. Magnetic coupled in / out. I am lovin this pre with my 2a3 amp. I find myself listening to cd's I don't even like.
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106439)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106440)
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... I sold my tap-x for a ecc99 based preamp from Elliott Studio Arts. Magnetic coupled in / out. I am lovin this pre with my 2a3 amp. I find myself listening to cd's I don't even like.
Dwight
That's when you know the system is perfect! And yeah, I'd consider the 12" sub, but since I just added the 8" a couple days back, don't think I'm going there.
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A shameless plug for these speakers.... a pair is available !
http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/omegaoutlawopen1.html
You will have no regrets. Awesome Speakers if you have the room.
Dwight
11/15/19 - no longer available !!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108028)
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Hello guys ,I was a little skeptical when I first bought these outlaw 1.5 open baffle .with just a 5 inch driver
How accurate can this be or even with the ported woofer will it give any Bass.i was just running a small
Amplifier the Excellent Red wine Signature 15 which is 30 wpc into 4 ohms .The speakers are 98 db efficient
My wife likes concerts .and opera not so much for me but we put on Pavorotti live in Central Park .
What a performance the dipole speakers soared.the ambiance is like a Much much bigger speaker.and
Sound incredible.i have had several $5k plus speakers in the past couple of years the revel f208 comes to mind
.i am using a 12 inch powered sub for the last octave or so .the voices were in the room no BS it sounded real
As in live my brother popped in and he too was very impressed..i then put on a queen live in Montreal
Excellent rock brian May kicks ass a great guitarist very under rated as is the bassist and Freddie Mercury
Let me tell you these speakers being time and phase coherent and these 2 nd generation drivers I was getting consistent db levels over 100 db with 104 peaks and it sounded Excellent .this is too loud for average listening
This is ear damage level .we did play this at about 95 db on average .i then played the piano guys excellent
Piano Cello composers with a jazz twist the yamaha piano had quickness and snap and you can hear and feel the petals of the Yamaha grand ,and the Cello the horse hair strings you can feel them sliding off the bow.
Just changing a digital cable to a new one and power cord to my dac with these speakers I could hear every
Change .these speakers let you hear what is on the recording .i will recommend if you want this to be a speaker For all rooms up yo 20 ft a sub woofer or two is highly recommended if you want to use these speakers for home theatre or music found into the last octave.. On their own they will do roughly mid 40 hz without any problem. A powered sub is allways a plus it eases up the low end to play even more at ease at higher volumes i Xover around 70-80 hz
It is all up to your room . Highly recommended.one more thing my friends Harbeths at $4k these Outlaws speakers picked up a lot of low level information barely there on the Harbeths or as clear sounding.so much for advertisements and their complex
Xovers. I think not having a Xover gives a sonic purity you don't realize you are missing untill you experience it .this Outlaw 1.5 is Highly Recommended .Paul L.
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Paul,
CONGRATS :beer:
Report back @ 500hrs if you have the chance.. I know louis stated 50hrs for the break in period.
thanks for the report and enjoy !
Dwight
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Hello Dwight I have changed digital cables ,and that too was easy to hear the changes and better cable.
With this speaker I do recommend a subwoofer for easy music ,light jaz and voices excellent.if you want to play movies,and high dynamics then a Sub woofer,is needed.Louis deep hemp sub are very robust and custom matched cabinet finishes. I set the sub at about 70 hz ,it allows the 1.5 open baffle to coast very open and airy on top with good attack and Mids are seamless even with my brothers outlaw audio ultra12 sub very easy to blend with these speakers.and that sub is Huge.
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Hey Outlaw-heads, here's a quick update if anyone’s interested. Spent a week or two with the Von Schweikert VR-2s in the system. Today I put the Outlaws back in with the accompanying Omega sub. And because I was lazy and just to see how they'd sound, I kept the same speaker cables on. Yes, the dreaded solid core Anti Cables. And guess what? They sound just fine. In fact, they sound very good. As expected, a different character than other cables but still very good. Remember that awful canned mid-range I referred to early on, long before the Outlaws were broken in? Totally gone - even with the Anti Cables.
Once these speakers are broken in, anything goes. I’m guessing I have 400 hour or more on them now. Play around with different connections etc. It all sounds good, but of course, you’ll find one that you prefer. Pat Metheny’s Imaginary Day sounds really, really good. I
It’s cool to come back to the Outlaws after some time off. I appreciate them even more now.
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Hey Outlaw-heads, here's a quick update if anyone’s interested. Spent a week or two with the Von Schweikert VR-2s in the system. Today I put the Outlaws back in with the accompanying Omega sub. And because I was lazy and just to see how they'd sound, I kept the same speaker cables on. Yes, the dreaded solid core Anti Cables. And guess what? They sound just fine. In fact, they sound very good. As expected, a different character than other cables but still very good. Remember that awful canned mid-range I referred to early on, long before the Outlaws were broken in? Totally gone - even with the Anti Cables.
Once these speakers are broken in, anything goes. I’m guessing I have 400 hour or more on them now. Play around with different connections etc. It all sounds good, but of course, you’ll find one that you prefer. Pat Metheny’s Imaginary Day sounds really, really good. I
It’s cool to come back to the Outlaws after some time off. I appreciate them even more now.
This post really shows the importance of break in. We can't stress it enough.
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45 meets 1.5
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110975)
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happyrabbit,
You must be a happy rabbit owning that gorgeous amp (I assume you own it). Is it the Silver 45SE? I'm very curious as to how it sounds compared to your other amplifiers. Being your speakers are 4 ohm and the amp has no extra taps, how is it responding to your speakers with regards to impedance?
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Hey CR !
This is the CU model. No Silver for me :cry:
A couple thoughts :
The EML 45 solid plate feel like a big improvement over the nos ge 45's supplied with the unit. the EML's need more break-in hours before i quantify them.
I am not sure how I feel about the 8ohm / 4ohm mismatch. The sound is a bit boxy @ very low spl.
Compared to my SS Amp / Tube Pre , the EF 45 CU is a tone , texture , and decay machine. this became apparent almost immediately. Not a massive difference and would be happy with both systems but now i have heard the difference .
1.7 watts is more than enough.
I like the vt-231 rca grey better than the 6sn7 sylvania chrome tops. The sylvania's are too analytical with the eml solid plates.
Absolutely luv the old school look / feel
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=111078)
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Nice amp!
I have found the 5692 version of 6SN7 to be the quietest, I have 4 each RCA and Sylvania and they are all the same. I like all 6SN7s, I haven't found any NOS versions to be bad and I have a pretty large collection. :green: I prefer the 5692s, then the Russian 1578 type, then most any Sylvania. I do not have the RCA vt-231s you have though, one of these days...
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Dave - 5692 look tasty. Never owned a pair. I liked my Melz's but one tube became unstable related to the base. I found the TJ Full Music 6sn7 to be the best for new production.
O'Canada - 6 ohm partial silver trans ordered. i talked to Tony @ EF. A very pleasant gentleman :thumb:
My 2a3 doesn't sound so great compared to the 45. This not an unexpected discovery given everything i have read and my 2a3's build quality (aka nothing special). I was concerned about the 1.7 watts but it was unfounded. 45 SET and 1.5 OB are sublime together.
Dwight
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Dave - 5692 look tasty. Never owned a pair. I liked my Melz's but one tube became unstable related to the base. I found the TJ Full Music 6sn7 to be the best for new production.
O'Canada - 6 ohm partial silver trans ordered. i talked to Tony @ EF. A very pleasant gentleman :thumb:
My 2a3 doesn't sound so great compared to the 45. This not an unexpected discovery given everything i have read and my 2a3's build quality (aka nothing special). I was concerned about the 1.7 watts but it was unfounded. 45 SET and 1.5 OB are sublime together.
Dwight
This is really interesting. I have a Bottlehead Stereomour 2A3 kit waiting to be built and it can also be wired for 45. 1.7 watts doesn't deter me after using various Decware Zens over the years which are about the same power. Does anyone on here have experience with the Stereomour on 45 tubes?
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Dave - 5692 look tasty. Never owned a pair. I liked my Melz's but one tube became unstable related to the base. I found the TJ Full Music 6sn7 to be the best for new production.
O'Canada - 6 ohm partial silver trans ordered. i talked to Tony @ EF. A very pleasant gentleman :thumb:
My 2a3 doesn't sound so great compared to the 45. This not an unexpected discovery given everything i have read and my 2a3's build quality (aka nothing special). I was concerned about the 1.7 watts but it was unfounded. 45 SET and 1.5 OB are sublime together.
Dwight
A friend had Fi 2a3 monoblocks ($$$) with 6SN7 drivers and IMO they were a little tweaky... tube rolling made almost too big of a difference, really changing the balance of the system. I brought over my EL34 amp and it was better in a lot of ways... Since then he's had a custom 300B amp built, I have not heard it yet but if it can provide the midrange detail of the 2a3 with the body and weight of my EL34 amp it'll be a huge winner.
You should be able to find Sylvania 5692 for around $100/pair, the red base RCAs go for more but I think they are exactly the same tube.
Sorry I forgot to answer re the trannys but you did exactly what I would have recommended... ask the manufacturer! :green: OPTs are hugely important, I hope the new ones sound great!
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Any Outlaw partial open baffle people tried an amp with a good deal of power, like 100 wpc or more? I have an old Carver CM-1090 integrated with 100 wpc laying around so I popped it into the system for kicks. Can't really tell if I prefer or don't prefer it. Thought more power might somehow beef up the bass response or overall fullness of reproduction, but it doesn't really seem to do much in that respect. I'm guessing it's because this amp, while decent back in its day, really "ain't all that" in 2015. Still sounds good, but I had certain expectations relating to the increase from 10 to 100 watts.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=111858)
Anyone try a "good" higher power SS amp like Musical Fidelity, Classe, Bryston etc.? Just curious. I like to have a couple options to swap around. Thinking of adding something along those lines just to have on hand. Best in the NY everyone!
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kirch, Crown XLS 1500
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Class D, and it's dirt cheap too . . . interesting.
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A few months ago I posted about it replacing a friend's Atmosphere amp on his Pipedream line arrays, which led to this:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=130191.0
Seems like it's worth trying, I think they work well with the RS5 driver.
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Might pull the trigger on one of these. Can always return it within 30 days if I don't like it.
Any idea about noise? This much power and at 98db sensitive, I wonder if the open backs will pick up too much noise from this amp. I've had a Wyred4Sound class D amp before, but with a much less sensitive speaker, so it was really quiet with that set up.
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Interesting comparison between the Benchmark DAC and my AN 3.1 DAC. No real surprises - these Benchmarks are very nice little components. Crystal clear, analytical (and I mean that in a good way), excellent stereo separation with great detail. The Benchmark also brings about a more focused, tighter bass from both the speakers and the Omega sub. Earlier on in the life of the Open Backs, the benchmark would have been a horrible mistake, but since they've settled in after a zillion hours, I'd say for any solid state person that the Benchmark is a great fit. It pairs well with my Audio Note OTO sig tube integrated.
Thought anyone considering an affordable solid state DAC might want to check into the Benchmark. They're very affordable, have a tiny footprint and go for $500 or so on Agon. I'm on my second one and decided I need to keep one around at all times just for swapping and playing around with different combos. They're that good, IMHO.
Side note - I've been getting the bug to change components again, and this little swap out of the DAC has stopped that in its tracks. (Whew!)
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I had Electra Fidelity change out the transformers from 8 ohm to 4 ohm 7K Partial Silver last month. I did a brief comparison between the 45 SET and my solid state amp / tube preamp today. I have owned an 300B and 2A3 amp and the tap settings did little to change the sound. The Outlaw 1.5 responded favorably to the 4 ohm taps. The difference with the 4ohm allows the EF 45 to blow past my SS AMP / Tube Preamp Combination. More transparent, deeper stage and with more passion. The SS Amp / Tube Preamp combo sounded bland. The 4ohm taps also leveled the playing field with NOS 45 and the EML 45. Both Sound great now. The speakers are @ 5' from the back wall with center line seating position @ 7' away. I feel 5' from the back wall is the absolute minimum for the OB 1.5. YMMV.
I have included a couple pics of my visit to Electra Fidelity during my trip to Vegas. Jack, the owner of Electra Fidelity, gave me an ear full @ transformer design. To be honest, I consider transformer design black magic. Jack has a wonderful sense of humor, intelligent, and a bit opinionated too :green:. Considering I brought my amp 2nd hand, Electra Fidelity was very accommodating. I also demoed his 211 SET amp during my visit. My 1st encounter with the 211 Tube. Super Jelly :bounce:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=115509)
Jack is the older gentleman on the right.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=115510)
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Congrats, nice amps! :thumb:
The 211, 845 or 805 is my holy grail of tube amps but they cost a fortune just for the parts to build them! One of these days... :green:
Looks like Jack runs Sonist? They are pretty good... for mulit-way speakers. :wink:
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HappyWabbit,
Nice post, beautiful mono blocks, and glad your 45 is working out well. It would be nice to see Jack try some Omegas on his amps.
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Two subwoofers. Yes.
Added another sub I had sitting around not doing anything. So now I have two 8" subs to accompany my OPOBs. One sub sounded good, two better. Much. I see why Omega recommends two subs. Happy listening all!
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update !
latest layout : 5' from back wall. 5.5' speaker separation & 5.5' center line seated position. Wow ! It's been over a year and I am still awed by these speakers.
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137405)
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Which amp you using? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'd go for 6' in the middle.
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magnus ma-200. both my 45 & 2a3 are non-functional :cry:
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both my 45 & 2a3 are non-functional :cry:
What happened?
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The electra fidleity 45 main transformer developed a nasty hum. I was advised not to use the EML 45's... But I did. The tridoe lab 2a3 died during the super bowl. It died quitely. it didn't explode and burn down the house so I am happy :green: I haven't determine the root cause yet. I am kinda done with tube amplifiers.
Dwight
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Dwight,
Sorry to hear. Don't give up on tubes, however. This must be a bad coincidence. I've been using tube amplifiers for at least 10 years without any major issues. Actually, your 2A3 tube experiences - as chronicled on AC - led me to get an EML 2A3 S for my Bottlehead Stereomour. Great tube.
Good Luck!
Boris
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Dwight,
I second what borism said about not giving up on tubes. The Electra Fidelity would be the one I would concentrate on fixing - nice amp.
Although the Triode Lab amps are lovely looking and can be ordered with nice iron, the circuit board mounted tube sockets are a compromise, hence Triode Lab's lower pricing. Between heat bleeddown from the tube and flexing during tube rolling, the board could be a fail point. I have no problem with circuit boards as long as the traces are heavy duty and no tubes are mounted on them.
Would I own an amp with tube mounted sockets? Probably, but I would settle on a tube I liked and not roll, and I would make sure the ambient room temperature didn't exceed 70F.
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Dwight,
I second what borism said about not giving up on tubes. The Electra Fidelity would be the one I would concentrate on fixing - nice amp.
Although the Triode Lab amps are lovely looking and can be ordered with nice iron, the circuit board mounted tube sockets are a compromise, hence Triode Lab's lower pricing. Between heat bleeddown from the tube and flexing during tube rolling, the board could be a fail point. I have no problem with circuit boards as long as the traces are heavy duty and no tubes are mounted on them.
Would I own an amp with tube mounted sockets? Probably, but I would settle on a tube I liked and not roll, and I would make sure the ambient room temperature didn't exceed 70F.
Rob,
Another option to facilitate tube rolling without wear on the amp is socket savers. I've had them in the Inspire for some time. I may wear out the socket savers but, as far as the amp knows, I never swap tubes! :icon_twisted:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137521)
..........Peter