AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Open Baffle Speakers => Topic started by: happyrabbit on 1 Oct 2015, 02:25 am

Title: Spatial M4
Post by: happyrabbit on 1 Oct 2015, 02:25 am
These are my 2nd pair of OB speakers.     They are about 5' from the back wall, 6' apart, 7' center line seated position and with a slight toe-in. The initial listen is promising. :green: The (4) 12'' woofers do a surprisingly lovely job and my 45 SET amp is more than enough.   I will report back in 100hrs. The sub-woofer in the attached pics is for HT.   

Dwight


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128906)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128908)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128907)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128909)
Title: Re: Spatial M4's
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 1 Oct 2015, 02:29 am
Nice. Hope to hear some of Claytons work at RMAF...

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: sfdoddsy on 1 Oct 2015, 08:51 am
What was your previous pair of OBs. Just wondering how the Spatial's compare.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: sunnydaze on 1 Oct 2015, 04:47 pm
What was your previous pair of OBs. Just wondering how the Spatial's compare.

Glancing at his system page, looks like they are Omega 1.5
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: jimdgoulding on 1 Oct 2015, 04:55 pm
These speakers interest me large for my 12X15X8' room.  And, they are so affordable compared to just about everything.  DO follow up with your impressions.  Thanks in advance, Dwight.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: paul79 on 1 Oct 2015, 05:02 pm
I've heard some wonderful things about these speakers, and from a couple people that have some very high end gear. I am wanting to hear some of these.

Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 1 Oct 2015, 05:28 pm
Haven't heard the M4s, but heard the M2s at last year's RMAF and was very, very impressed. Seems like Clayton's on a mission to bring good audio to the masses...love his gear and approach. Nice guy, too.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: kgturner on 1 Oct 2015, 08:06 pm
I just took delivery of a pair of M4 Turbos. I've only put a couple of hours on them, but so far I'm impressed. There are a few critiques I could offer right now, but with just ~2 hours playing time, I don't think it's fair to talk about that yet. We'll see how they morph and change over the next few weeks. They definitely need breathing room from the back wall to open up. That much is immediately obvious.

Here's where they stay:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128942)

Here's where they play:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128943)

Sorry for the crappy iPhone pics.

Kevin T

Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: apstoltz on 24 Dec 2015, 01:14 am
Happy rabbit, what are your thoughts after you have had a chance to break them in. The m4 is on my very short list and my leap into ob territory. It looks like they have a lot going for them, I like how they can be easily moved out into the room yet tucked away for waf when not in use.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 11 Jan 2016, 11:40 pm
These are my 2nd pair of OB speakers.     They are about 5' from the back wall, 6' apart, 7' center line seated position and with a slight toe-in. The initial listen is promising. :green: The (4) 12'' woofers do a surprisingly lovely job and my 45 SET amp is more than enough.   I will report back in 100hrs. The sub-woofer in the attached pics is for HT.   

Dwight


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128906)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128908)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128907)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128909)

I, too, am currently breaking in a pair of M4's! I will also report back when they are more warmed up! Stay tuned!

Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: jtwrace on 12 Jan 2016, 02:33 am
Yeah, these OB speakers are killer.  Probably the only ones that I'd buy.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 12 Jan 2016, 02:39 am
I, too, am currently breaking in a pair of M4's! I will also report back when they are more warmed up! Stay tuned!

...as am I, Rebbi. I'm quite impressed so far. They seem to like a little more power than their efficiency would suggest, though - not a problem for me with 100 Blue Circle watts, but curious to hear your impressions with the AN.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 12 Jan 2016, 02:55 am
...as am I, Rebbi. I'm quite impressed so far. They seem to like a little more power than their efficiency would suggest, though - not a problem for me with 100 Blue Circle watts, but curious to hear your impressions with the AN.

Plenty of oomph with the ANK Kit 1. I told Clayton that these seem to be perhaps the most honestly specced (in terms of sensitivity) speakers I've tried. On most CD's, 9:00 on the volume pot is as far as I'd care to go. The Spatials make the Kit 1 sound positively muscular.   :thumb:

How many hours you have on yours, md?? I think I'm inching up on the 24 hour "warm up" mark.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 12 Jan 2016, 03:07 am
Plenty of oomph with the ANK Kit 1. I told Clayton that these seem to be perhaps the most honestly specced (in terms of sensitivity) speakers I've tried. On most CD's, 9:00 on the volume pot is as far as I'd care to go. The Spatials make the Kit 1 sound positively muscular.   :thumb:

How many hours you have on yours, md?? I think I'm inching up on the 24 hour "warm up" mark.

Good to know, Rebbi, as one of the main benefits to these, to me, is the versatility to go up or down the ladder power-wise.

I'm guessing I'm at the 40 or so hour point. Significant differences started appearing in the 30 hour range...at least they seemed that way to me. Who knows what role our ears and brain play in "break-in." ;) But even now I'm finding them remarkably un-fatiguing...and the solidity of the center image is wonderful...

Clayton says 100 hours...can't wait.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 12 Jan 2016, 03:17 am
But even now I'm finding them remarkably un-fatiguing...and the solidity of the center image is wonderful...

Clayton says 100 hours...can't wait.

Ditto, ditto and ditto.    :D
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: paul79 on 12 Jan 2016, 05:13 am
What happened to the OP? Any further findings?
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: Don_S on 12 Jan 2016, 03:56 pm
What happened to the OP? Any further findings?


According to stats, he was active 1 hour and 11 minutes ago.   Where is that silly wabbit?

I sent Dwight a PM asking him to give us an update.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: paul79 on 13 Jan 2016, 01:33 am
Damn right!   :thumb:
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: Poultrygeist on 13 Jan 2016, 11:25 am
Are those Eminence woofers?
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 13 Jan 2016, 01:23 pm
Are those Eminence woofers?

Yes, but with modifications. See a brief explanation here, at around 1:50 and then again at 6:20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d03t7kIbjIQ
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 13 Jan 2016, 01:35 pm
Are those Eminence woofers?

 Yes, they are made by Eminence for Clayton. There is a YouTube video where he talks about having worked with them a lot in the past when he was in pro audio manufacturing.  He worked with them on these current Spatial designs, specifying what kind of characteristics  he needed from the drivers and then prototyping back-and-forth until he got what he wanted. His goal, as he says in the video, was to be able to  streamline the manufacturing process and order the drivers in large enough quantities so that economies of scale kicked in and he could get the prices down for the finished product.  Spatial's top-of-the-line speaker, called Luminance, goes into five figure territory, but he's quoted somewhere else as saying, "I don't just want to make toys for rich guys." Here's a photo of one of the woofers:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135111)
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 13 Jan 2016, 01:41 pm
Yes, they are made by Eminence for Clayton. There is a YouTube video where he talks about having worked with them a lot in the past when he was in pro audio manufacturing.  He worked with them on these current Spatial designs, specifying what kind of characteristics  he needed from the drivers and then prototyping back-and-forth until he got what he wanted. His goal, as he says in the video, was to be able to  streamline the manufacturing process and order the drivers in large enough quantities so that economies of scale kicked in and he could get the prices down for the finished product.  Spatial's top-of-the-line speaker, called Luminance, goes into five figure territory, but he's quoted somewhere else as saying, "I don't just want to make toys for rich guys." Here's a photo of one of the woofers:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135111)

Great minds...I had posted a link to that video just a few minutes before your reply. ;)
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: jtwrace on 14 Jan 2016, 02:01 pm
Anyone own the M3Turbo? 
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: erniek on 14 Jan 2016, 06:28 pm
Anyone compare the Spatial's to the Emerald physics speakers? I am considering one or the other this spring and will more than likely make a purchase at Axpona. Currently am interested in the M3's but this M4 review seems quite good.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: erniek on 15 Jan 2016, 07:11 pm
I also wonder how much room affects the different models.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: jtwrace on 15 Jan 2016, 07:30 pm
I also wonder how much room affects the different models.
A room has the biggest effect on any speaker so yes there is an effect.  With the M3T for instance, the larger the better the result will be. 
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 15 Jan 2016, 08:04 pm
Anyone compare the Spatial's to the Emerald physics speakers? I am considering one or the other this spring and will more than likely make a purchase at Axpona. Currently am interested in the M3's but this M4 review seems quite good.

I've not heard the two A/Bd with the same ancillary equipment, but I did hear their respective rooms at RMAF in 2014 and found the Spatials to be easier on the ear (for me). I thought the EPs were dynamic but fatiguing; the treble in particular was too bright and etched for my liking. That's not at all the case with the Spatials (which I now own).

Aural memory has its challenges, of course...but I do remember leaving the EP room within 15 minutes, but returning to the Spatial room three times. And, of course, I did vote with my wallet for the latter. Take that for what it's worth.

Good luck!

Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: Manolo on 16 Jan 2016, 02:18 pm
My 2 cents. I received my Spatial M4's Turbo Monday afternoon. First impression, well packed, foam protection where needed, top and bottom, protecting the drivers. The are not double boxed though, and I suggest that for at least air shipping. I used USPS 3 day Priority and it worked pretty well. There were some gashes around the box in one of the speakers but the speakers were not touched. As you can see they are satin red and beautiful. They will reach the 100 hour break in target in 2 hours and this assessment is right, it is now that they are starting to sound beautiful. I suspect that they might need another 50 to 60 hours more to reach their optimum performance. Soundwise nothing different that what has been said everywhere including this thread. Compared to my main previous speakers, Reference Line MM de deCapo's, they have more  bass and are more dynamic. They also throw a larger soundstage and are about the same depthwise so far. BTW I listen near field though my room is only 12'x11'. Musically they are direct, no sugar coating here, what the recording offers is what you get. I was afraid they would be too forward and shrill sounding but this has not been the case and they are getting smoother every hour,.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135223)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135223)
Maybe Rebbi can make some comments regarding the deCapo's, though I remember he had or has a pair. Really good speakers. The Spatials are 1 db more efficient so my 25 w First Watt amp is having a feast. It delivers 40w into 4 ohms though. I keep connecting on and off my Vandersteen 2W sw and let me tell that I am not convinced yet if It is needed. The Spatials project a very tuned and dynamic bass that I think the 2W does not have. Before the 60 or 70 hour mark I could not integrate the 2w very well though the Spatials bass was kind of  disorganized, one could say. Hell of a pair of speakers recommended!
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: Manolo on 16 Jan 2016, 02:28 pm
Sorry for the double photos! And forgot to mention the spectaculae attention and service from Ryan Tew at Red Dragon Audio.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: kgturner on 16 Jan 2016, 03:22 pm
Great system! Is that my old Chardonnay I spy in your rack? Before moving to a computer based setup, I was a big 47 Labs fan. I also had the Shigaraki transport and DAC. Just really good stuff. I bet your setup sounds amazing!

Kevin T
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 16 Jan 2016, 03:25 pm
My 2 cents. I received my Spatial M4's Turbo Monday afternoon. First impression, well packed, foam protection where needed, top and bottom, protecting the drivers. The are not double boxed though, and I suggest that for at least air shipping. I used USPS 3 day Priority and it worked pretty well. There were some gashes around the box in one of the speakers but the speakers were not touched. As you can see they are satin red and beautiful. They will reach the 100 hour break in target in 2 hours and this assessment is right, it is now that they are starting to sound beautiful. I suspect that they might need another 50 to 60 hours more to reach their optimum performance. Soundwise nothing different that what has been said everywhere including this thread. Compared to my main previous speakers, Reference Line MM de deCapo's, they have more  bass and are more dynamic. They also throw a larger soundstage and are about the same depthwise so far. BTW I listen near field though my room is only 12'x11'. Musically they are direct, no sugar coating here, what the recording offers is what you get. I was afraid they would be too forward and shrill sounding but this has not been the case and they are getting smoother every hour,.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135223)
Maybe Rebbi can make some comments regarding the deCapo's, though I remember he had or has a pair. Really good speakers. The Spatials are 1 db more efficient so my 25 w First Watt amp is having a feast. It delivers 40w into 4 ohms though. I keep connecting on and off my Vandersteen 2W sw and let me tell that I am not convinced yet if It is needed. The Spatials project a very tuned and dynamic bass that I think the 2W does not have. Before the 60 or 70 hour mark I could not integrate the 2w very well though the Spatials bass was kind of  disorganized, one could say. Hell of a pair of speakers recommended!

I will definitely post more later, including, eventually, a review on my blog, but at this point I can say that the M4's  wipe the floor with the De Capo's,  steal their lunch money and make them clean their fish tank. And considering how good the Reference 3a's are, that's really saying something.    :lol:
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: Manolo on 16 Jan 2016, 05:01 pm
Yes Kevin that is your Supratek Chardonnay...... And Rebbi, can you post your blog's address?
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 16 Jan 2016, 07:38 pm
Yes Kevin that is your Supratek Chardonnay...... And Rebbi, can you post your blog's address?

Steve's Audio Blog (http://stevefolberg.wordpress.com)!
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 17 Jan 2016, 05:01 pm
Gotta say, these puppies just keep getting better - more open, more dynamic every day.  Great at low volumes, too.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: happyrabbit on 17 Jan 2016, 11:00 pm
couple more pics.  long story short...  I perfer the dipole sound field from the Omega's.  ymmv.

Dwight


http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135334

http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135335


Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: apstoltz on 17 Jan 2016, 11:19 pm
The m4 are on my very short list. I love the red finish.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 17 Jan 2016, 11:20 pm
couple more pics.  long story short...  I perfer the dipole sound field from the Omega's.  ymmv.

Dwight


http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135334

http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135335

Interesting! Well, "horses for courses," as the Brits like to say.   8)
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 17 Jan 2016, 11:22 pm
The m4 are on my very short list. I love the red finish.

Mine are black, but yeah, I agree, the red is VERY sharp. From the pictures it looks kind of brownish red, is that right; I mean, not a fire engine red?
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: kgturner on 17 Jan 2016, 11:57 pm
Here's a pic of the red M4 on static display from last years RMAF.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135340)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135341)
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 18 Jan 2016, 12:13 am
Thanks for the photo for scale - I had pictured them in my mind as being a lot bigger from looking at the advert photos.

Interesting to read Dwight's opinion.  I wonder (ask?) if maybe part of this opinion is due to the Omegas being open baffle all the way to the top of the frequency range, while the Spatials are using a closed back tweeter?  Having personally played with a pair of coaxials from GR's super-v with the backs of the compression tweeters cut open (as well as using the same drivers as intended with the closed back cup prior to having them opened up), there was very much a sense of ease and settlement that having the tweeter running dipole gave to the equation that completely changed the character of the driver - in my opinion for the better.

I wonder if Clayton has played with opening up the back of either his stock compression driver or the new one advertised on the M3 and M4 turbo-s?
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 18 Jan 2016, 12:34 am
Thanks for the photo for scale - I had pictured them in my mind as being a lot bigger from looking at the advert photos.

 Yes, they are surprisingly "petite" and much less imposing than they look in some of the advertising. Agreed. WAF  on these is also quite high, at least in my own domestic situation.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 23 Jan 2016, 08:40 pm
Riding out Jonas with my M4s and some Mark O'Connor...pretty blissful...
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 26 Jan 2016, 03:54 am
Every time I sit down with my M4's, I am astonished at how great they are... I mean, they'd be a good deal at twice the price, but at just under $1300, they're an unbelievable value. If I can tear myself away from listening to music long enough to do some writing, I'll blog about them soon.   :lol:
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 26 Jan 2016, 04:14 am
Every time I sit down with my M4's, I am astonished at how great they are... I mean, they'd be a good deal at twice the price, but at just under $1300, they're an unbelievable value. If I can tear myself away from listening to music long enough to do some writing, I'll blog about them soon.   :lol:

I know how long and winding the road to speaker bliss has been for you Rebbi...I'm glad you've found a match. I'm loving mine as well...certainly an amazing value.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 26 Jan 2016, 04:26 am
I know how long and winding the road to speaker bliss has been for you Rebbi...I'm glad you've found a match. I'm loving mine as well...certainly an amazing value.

Yes... I think I may finally be done.

By the way, i still don't think I have much more than 30 hours on my pair. I can't imagine how much better they might sound at 100 hours!
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 26 Jan 2016, 04:41 am
I'm in the 70 hour range and they do get better, believe it or not....although the biggest changes are surely behind me. Still, there are definitely subtle differences I'm hearing even now compared to a week ago....subtle, but there. They seem to keep getting...easier, for lack of a better word. That effortlessness is so darned impressive, particularly for a speaker that costs $1.3K. I just can't stop listening...I find they're on whenever I have a free minute.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: Manolo on 26 Jan 2016, 04:51 pm
Mine have over 150 hours, and believe me they keep getting better... Smoother, more open or maybe better described as"more effortlessness"
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 26 Jan 2016, 04:54 pm
Mine have over 150 hours, and believe me they keep getting better... Smoother, more open or maybe better described as"more effortlessness"

Good to know, Manolo. Curious what you're driving them with...I'm using a Blue Circle DAR integrated (to great effect)...
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: erniek on 26 Jan 2016, 07:13 pm
Have any of the M4 owners compared the 4 to the 3? I am interested in the M3. My room is about 17 x 20 and I would be able to have them out about 3 feet.
Any comments are appreciated.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: jtwrace on 26 Jan 2016, 07:14 pm
Have any of the M4 owners compared the 4 to the 3? I am interested in the M3. My room is about 17 x 20 and I would be able to have them out about 3 feet.
Any comments are appreciated.
No idea on the M4 other than what Clayton suggested to me.  I have a similar size room and he suggested the M3.  I have M3 Turbo S on order. 
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: Manolo on 26 Jan 2016, 07:46 pm
Md I drive them with a First Watt F4 stereo amp. 25w/ channel into 8 ohms and 40 into 4.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: mick wolfe on 26 Jan 2016, 08:34 pm
Have any of the M4 owners compared the 4 to the 3? I am interested in the M3. My room is about 17 x 20 and I would be able to have them out about 3 feet.
Any comments are appreciated.

I can comment on the M2 Turbo in regard to placement. Mine are about 26" from front wall to back of speaker. 3' should be fine for the larger model. I've found the Spatials about as room friendly as any speaker  I've owned. Your room size should be ideal as well.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 26 Jan 2016, 08:45 pm
Do you all think that the M3 inherently needs a larger room and more distance from the front wall than the M4?
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 26 Jan 2016, 10:56 pm
Great amp Manolo...must sound amazing!

As for distance, I keep my M4s relatively close to the wall for storage and "background music," but pull them at least 36" away from the back wall for critical listening. I listen fairly near field (about 7-8 feet away) in a larger room (a 12X26 grand room, which is divided by a half-wall near the center), and the sound stage only "locks in" if they're at least that far into the room.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: mcgsxr on 26 Jan 2016, 11:33 pm
I have found most open baffle speakers perform best 24-60 inches into the room.

I have run DIY speakers, and currently enjoy a set of Maggies.  At present the 1.6's are about 38 inches into the room.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: dapoun on 27 Jan 2016, 03:35 pm
I'm also inching towards a pair of Spatial, so keep those comments coming. My room is fairly small, 12'L X 8'W, so near field listening is unavoidable but I've gotten used to it. Speaking with Shaw, he recommended the M4 with at least 18" from the front wall.

Rebbi, we seem to have owned similar speakers, Merlin, De Capo, so your inputs on the M4 would be very helpful and would love to hear more inputs when you do decide to posts a review.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: mick wolfe on 27 Jan 2016, 04:45 pm
Do you all think that the M3 inherently needs a larger room and more distance from the front wall than the M4?

Rebbi....Don't know if that question was directed to me, but my answer would be yes. In addition, I'm also "assuming" the characteristics of the M1 and M2 will pretty much mirror the M3 and M4. Just about a year ago my friend had the M1 Turbo and I had the M2 Turbo. ( which I still have) My observation at that time was that the M1 with roughly 1.5 times the driver radiating area of the 2 needed more room to breath. That would be both in distance from the front wall and overall room size. That doesn't mean the room has to be any larger than the average  living /family room though. Some of the room sizes mentioned here ( 20 X 17 ) would be ideal. This allows at least 3 to 4 feet of breathing room behind the speaker and 9 to 10 feet to the listening position. In regard to the M2 Turbo, I have used it in a small listening room ( 10 x 11) with reasonable success as well. However you're not going to get that same totally open relaxed presentation achieved with more room volume. The presentation is much more upfront or "front row". Very listenable for sure, but the speaker doesn't disappear with the same effect it does in a larger space. For the record, the M2's reside in my family room which is a fairly large in comparison to the small room mentioned. In this room, they're supplemented with ACI Titan sub. The small room speaker is an Ohm 1000. Nothing I've used in this small room has matched the Ohm.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: genjamon on 27 Jan 2016, 04:51 pm
Our Tucson group has heard both the M1 and M2's at my place and Mick's.  Our impressions are that the M2's have a bit better imaging.  I also found subwoofer integration was a lot easier with the M2 than with the M1 - the M1's were robust in the bass down to about 30hz or so, making integration with subwoofer tricky.  The M2's don't go anywhere near as low, meaning the mains can hand off to a subwoofer pretty cleanly, much easier to integrate. 

But the M1 had a bit lower center of gravity in terms of timbre/tone, more weight to the sound, and a bigger sound for sure.  M2's will sound plenty big in small and probably mid-sized rooms.  But in larger rooms, the M1 will likely create the more realistic soundstage. 

I would assume the same issues would exist with the M3 and M4, as they're the same basic design, just in a cabinet that's cheaper to manufacture.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: genjamon on 27 Jan 2016, 04:53 pm
Mick!  Great minds think alike!
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 27 Jan 2016, 05:11 pm
Rebbi....Don't know if that question was directed to me, but my answer would be yes. In addition, I'm also "assuming" the characteristics of the M1 and M2 will pretty much mirror the M3 and M4. Just about a year ago my friend had the M1 Turbo and I had the M2 Turbo. ( which I still have) My observation at that time was that the M1 with roughly 1.5 times the driver radiating area of the 2 needed more room to breath. That would be both in distance from the front wall and overall room size. That doesn't mean the room has to be any larger than the average  living /family room though. Some of the room sizes mentioned here ( 20 X 17 ) would be ideal. This allows at least 3 to 4 feet of breathing room behind the speaker and 9 to 10 feet to the listening position. In regard to the M2 Turbo, I have used it in a small listening room ( 10 x 11) with reasonable success as well. However you're not going to get that same totally open relaxed presentation achieved with more room volume. The presentation is much more upfront or "front row". Very listenable for sure, but the speaker doesn't disappear with the same effect it does in a larger space. For the record, the M2's reside in my family room which is a fairly large in comparison to the small room mentioned. In this room, they're supplemented with ACI Titan sub. The small room speaker is an Ohm 1000. Nothing I've used in this small room has matched the Ohm.

Mick,
I don't know if my original post was aimed at you, but your impressions are very useful, indeed!   :thumb:
They mirror my experience and intuition.
My room is about 16 x 13 x 8 (ceiling). Right now, I sit around 9 feet from the M4's and the frontmost (that is, outside) corner of the M4's front baffle is around 30 inches from the wall behind. I also (unfortunately - I'd like to remedy this soon) have my electronics in a rather large (but low) cabinet between the speakers - ouch, not ideal, I know, I know. So I don't have entirely free, open space right between them, as I should.
Although I'm tempted by the extra 12 or 13 Hz of bottom end that the M3's have to offer, I fear that they'd be physically dominating in the room and that with my limited placement flexibility, I'd be getting an overly "in your face" presentation. Right now, the M4's sound big, lively, dynamic and tonally breathtakingly real - I've never heard another speaker like them. They are also very good at lower volumes, and they are a fantastic match with my Audio Note Kits 300B SET amp. And this is with under 50 hours of playing time on them, so they're bound to get better.
Interesting you mention Ohm. I owned both Ohm Micro Walsh Talls and then Ohm 100's for a couple of years. While I loved a lot about them, I could never fully acclimate to their presentation. But I certainly know that many people adore them.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: mick wolfe on 27 Jan 2016, 06:02 pm
Mick!  Great minds think alike!

Thanks Ben. Despite being great minds that think alike, I think we still retain the ability to become totally confused at times.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: genjamon on 27 Jan 2016, 06:08 pm
Thanks Ben. Despite being great minds that think alike, I think we still retain the ability to become totally confused at times.

It's true.  I'm just glad my confusion is keeping pace with yours.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: mick wolfe on 27 Jan 2016, 06:13 pm
Rebbi.....your room size is spot on for the M4's to my way of thinking and 30" of breathing room to the front wall should be quite acceptable. A full 3' might be even better. I actually only have 28". I definitely enjoy having a powered sub in the mix though. You may have that covered already.
In regard to the Ohms in the small room. Room size allows the use of a 22 watt 845 based SET and therein lies a great deal of the magic. Have never heard a presentation in this room more ambient and real.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rollo on 27 Jan 2016, 07:45 pm
Here's a pic of the red M4 on static display from last years RMAF.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135340)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135341)


   Man those are tiny. Any height in the sound stage ?


charles
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 27 Jan 2016, 08:25 pm

   Man those are tiny. Any height in the sound stage ?


charles

Yes, height is excellent.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 27 Jan 2016, 09:30 pm
Yes, height is excellent.

Agree with Rebbi here....
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rollo on 27 Jan 2016, 09:42 pm
Thanks guys.  Trust your answer.


charles
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 27 Jan 2016, 09:43 pm
Agree with Rebbi here....

I'll give you just one example of height. On the XTC album, "Skylarking," produced by Todd Rundgren, there are lots of manipulated phase effects to create all kinds of spatial perceptions. On the opening track, Summer's Cauldron, there is the sound of a synthesized, chirping bird at regular intervals. This chirping bird, in my room, is "located" about 5 feet above the speakers, at the intersection of the front wall and the ceiling!

Similarly, on any number of my favorite orchestral CDs, the height of the orchestra and the sense of the recording venue are excellent. Your mileage may vary, of course, but that's what I'm finding.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rollo on 27 Jan 2016, 09:46 pm
  Thanks Rebbi no more interested for a second system. Useing Pipedreams [ Maggies before ] for main system that is why I asked about height. 
Scale is very important to me. Thanks again.

charles
Title: Re: My M4's got new shoes
Post by: Manolo on 29 Jan 2016, 10:03 pm
From the Oregon outfit that specializes on spikes. Threaded from top, easy to install raked them a little. I think bass is a little more controlled.

Title: Re: My M4's got new shoes
Post by: mick wolfe on 29 Jan 2016, 11:52 pm
From the Oregon outfit that specializes on spikes. Threaded from top, easy to install raked them a little. I think bass is a little more controlled.

Yep....same strategy with my M2 Turbos. Longer spikes plus ebony footers kick them approx. 15 degrees from perpendicular.
Title: Re: Spatial M4 spikes photo
Post by: Manolo on 30 Jan 2016, 05:34 pm
Photo
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136205)
Title: Re: My M4's got new shoes
Post by: rebbi on 2 Feb 2016, 04:10 am
From the Oregon outfit that specializes on spikes. Threaded from top, easy to install raked them a little. I think bass is a little more controlled.

Manolo,
Which Oregon outfit is that? Thanks!
Title: Re: My M4's got new shoes
Post by: md92468 on 2 Feb 2016, 04:14 am
Manolo,
Which Oregon outfit is that? Thanks!

I think it's this place...
http://www.oregondv.com

but I'm not sure which models...Manolo, can you clarify which ones you use? Thanks!
Title: Re: Spatial M4 That's the one
Post by: Manolo on 2 Feb 2016, 01:47 pm
That's the one. Go to Speaker Spikes then scroll down to Speaker Stand Spikes ---- $8.99 ea.
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: rebbi on 6 Feb 2016, 11:01 pm
Listening to "Chan Chan" from Buena Vista Social Club right now and the singers are in my guest room. Yikes.   :thumb:
Title: Re: My M4's got new shoes
Post by: mresseguie on 7 Feb 2016, 12:34 am
I think it's this place...
http://www.oregondv.com

but I'm not sure which models...Manolo, can you clarify which ones you use? Thanks!


Life sure does toss wild boomerangs to this mere mortal audiophile. I normally live 35 miles away from Salem, but currently I'm in Taiwan over 5000 miles away. It took till now to learn of the existence of Brass and Granite Audio. I ask, why couldn't I have learned of it before flying out to Taiwan? Sheesh.  :scratch: Fortunately, I will be back in the area in 6 weeks, so there's still hope for me.

A big THANKS for mentioning it!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: jimdgoulding on 7 Feb 2016, 02:35 am
Listening to "Chan Chan" from Buena Vista Social Club right now and the singers are in my guest room. Yikes.   :thumb:
I have that CD somewhere.  Must find it.  These speakers temp the heck outta me.  Think I'd have to raise them up some.  Have some stands custom made maybe. 
Title: Re: Spatial M4
Post by: md92468 on 7 Apr 2016, 01:19 pm
Resurrecting this thread to talk about an interesting experience I had last night with my M4 Turbos and a <$300 Fleawatt 3116 chip amp (mine is the "Corea" listed at the top of Fleawatt's blog)...the combination is amazing. If you're looking for an inexpensive "in" to hi-fidom, I can't imagine how you can do better for under 2.3K than this pairing...