[NoahH]

I am having more trouble recently with ground loops than ever before. I am playing with a few tactics, but one that I have been thinking about is Audio Envy cables where they make some cables that don't connect the ground wire. The designer has some comments about when to use those, but I was wondering if anyone here has played with skipping the ground connection.

This scares me for obvious reasons so I am interested in the experiences of others.

[EdwardT]

I’ve used ground lift devices many, many times for live concert work and never had any drama. Almost always the way that goes is using a three prong to two prong ac adapter, applying one to the Edisons in a chain and moving it amongst the components until the hum disappears. My thinking was that you have hum because of too many grounds and lifting one introduces no danger.

[mick wolfe]

Same here, but just for home audio applications. Tested first with a cheaper plug to determine the guilty party. Then replaced the cheater plug with a Hum-X for a more permanent solution. Have never had an issue of any sort over the years.

[PE]

Depends on the gear.  My Luxman's only have 2 wire power cords.  They are built that way, double insulated standards.

If it has a ground connection I'd be hesitant not to use it.
Dangerous? Only under a fault, which is unlikely.

[Elizabeth]

Does all your equipment come from one AC duplex? if more than one.. one of them may have the Hot / neutral wiring reversed.
Or one of your components may have the neutral internally reversed with the hot side.

[NoahH]

Thanks for all the feedback - this is reassuring.

For those who are curious about the causes, I have been playing with a BHK amp in place of my Ayre in one of my systems and it has triggered several ground oddities.

[Wayner]

Any system that has more than one ground drop invites ground potential differential. Eddy currents will move to both ground points, but they will not be equal and that is what causes the hum. Ground one component (or none) and that is all that is required. Lots of new equipment still comes with only a polarized plug. If you have a normal home, there is really not even a need for a ground.

[Elizabeth]

Of it is one item, then that item may have a ground fault or reversed hot and ground internally. That may be at the AC input or the transformer lead outs to the circuits.

[jtwrace]

If you're talking about power cables, if you don't use a ground and your equipment shorts and your house burns down and that cable wasn't grounded properly and/or isn't UL listed they may reject the claim.  Consider yourself warned. 


A grounded power cord likely saved my life on my amp after shipping damage.  Take it as you wish but it can and will happen to someone; that's why they exist. 

[Speedskater]

as "jtwrace' just wrote all AC power cords & cables need to have all their pins connected. Never ever remove the Safety Ground/Protective Earth conductor.
Thinking that the interconnect shields will ground the other units might get you killed.
and all AC power cords & cables need to be 'UL' listed (or other safety listing).

[Cheytak.408]

as "jtwrace' just wrote all AC power cords & cables need to have all their pins connected. Never ever remove the Safety Ground/Protective Earth conductor.
Thinking that the interconnect shields will ground the other units might get you killed.
and all AC power cords & cables need to be 'UL' listed (or other safety listing).

I was a victim of an excruciating shock, because it involved my lips, teeth, skull and brain before many of you were born.  I was singing into a mic connected to a PA system without a ground pin.  I fingered a chord on my guitar, leaned into the mic and touched it with my bottom lip.  My Fender amp had the infamous polarity 'death switch'.

I saw Jesus.

[Wayner]

If you're talking about power cables, if you don't use a ground and your equipment shorts and your house burns down and that cable wasn't grounded properly and/or isn't UL listed they may reject the claim.  Consider yourself warned. 


A grounded power cord likely saved my life on my amp after shipping damage.  Take it as you wish but it can and will happen to someone; that's why they exist.

That's pretty extreme "scare" tactic. Lots of houses burn down because of clogged dryer vents, squirrels chewing on electrical wires in an attic they got into. Almost every vintage piece of equipment I have has only a 2 prong plug and some older pieces (Marantz) doesn't even have a polarized plug.

Rather than fear mongering, perhaps some education on how people actually get electrocuted is in order. There are usually 400 electrocutions every year and most of them are industrial where someone has tampered with safety devices or ignored safety protocols. If you are operating your equipment in a normal home, the floor isn't wet, your not part of the completed circuit you will be fine. If you are really worried, get some GFCI outlets.

[Scroof Neachy]

I was a victim of an excruciating shock …….

I saw Jesus.

Did he have long hair as is often depicted in illustrations?

[jtwrace]

That's pretty extreme "scare" tactic. Lots of houses burn down because of clogged dryer vents, squirrels chewing on electrical wires in an attic they got into. Almost every vintage piece of equipment I have has only a 2 prong plug and some older pieces (Marantz) doesn't even have a polarized plug.

Rather than fear mongering, perhaps some education on how people actually get electrocuted is in order. There are usually 400 electrocutions every year and most of them are industrial where someone has tampered with safety devices or ignored safety protocols. If you are operating your equipment in a normal home, the floor isn't wet, your not part of the completed circuit you will be fine. If you are really worried, get some GFCI outlets.

And automobiles from the same era had only lap belts which were never encouraged to be used.  Things change when people do stupid things and/or things evolve as Engineers learn more.  Hence the reason GFI and grounded outlets exist.


Lap belt = 2 prong outlet
Lap belt with should belt = 3 prong outlet


2 point vs 3 point.   

[Speedskater]

If you eliminate a Safety Ground wire and something bad happens a GFCI won't protect you.

[Folsom]

as "jtwrace' just wrote all AC power cords & cables need to have all their pins connected. Never ever remove the Safety Ground/Protective Earth conductor.
Thinking that the interconnect shields will ground the other units might get you killed.
and all AC power cords & cables need to be 'UL' listed (or other safety listing).

Interconnect shields will singe in half, and not carry the load. That is true.

As far as anything needing to be UL listed, that's a fucking lie. There's only a handful of counties in the US that require anything to be UL approved for sale (not use). I have no idea how many years you've been posting that over and over... but it's incorrect information. UL is an independent organization that is only a legal shield of guidelines that have been mostly accepted in court - not appointed. But because of CONFUSED people such as yourself there is a perception that they're more than a private company with no authority, all the way to the point of people ruining their life trying to pay for approvals. The costs are so high that it's impossible for non mega international corporations to maintain it. The CE certification however is friendly and fair - which is common to much of the world. So please STFU with the lie. You think on forum with multiple cable makers, that make safe and desired audiophile cables they want you spreading LIES? STOP.

[3.14159265359]

If you're talking about power cables, if you don't use a ground and your equipment shorts and your house burns down and that cable wasn't grounded properly and/or isn't UL listed they may reject the claim.  Consider yourself warned. 


A grounded power cord likely saved my life on my amp after shipping damage.  Take it as you wish but it can and will happen to someone; that's why they exist.

That is fear mongering at its best. There was plenty of gear made and sold (and had the useless UL approval) that only had two prong power cords. The reports of mass electrocutions was exaggerated.
 

[jtwrace]

It's not the county, it's the insurance company who you expect to pay the claim.

[NoahH]

Folks - thanks for the thoughts here. I feel like this thread is somehow going off the rails. I am going to suggest we drop it here.

Thanks for the thoughts.