[hawkeyejw]

The experience you’re having with the x-statics is pretty much polar opposite to what I hear, and I am a big fan of PMDs as well. Some frequency sweeps would be good because it’s surprising that what you’re hearing is so contrary to the character associated with them. Maybe there’s something off that just needs a fix.

[DannyBadorine]

Thanks for the info Mike. I've read so many great things about the NX-tremes as well as the xstatik. You've given me some hope that these will smooth out. I'm still burning them in, so time will tell!

Danny, sorry I didn't mean to hijack your thread. I could probably help you out, the problem is the wave guides. Without knowing the exact dimensions for that they might not sound right.

Dude! You totally hijacked my thread! Ha! It's all good.  Getting the tweeter wave guide right is ultimately why I need help.  I will find someone to help and get it done eventually.  It's the same wave guide as the NX-Studio so there has to be a CAD of it.  I have the rest of the design, which apparently was a speaker already designed by Danny at GR. 

[DannyBadorine]

It wasn't a prototype it was a model he sold for a while.
The OB-5 and OB-7.
They used the Neo3 with deep cups and 5 or 7 M130 woofers respectively.

There is a prototype OB7 in the shop by the front door.

That's awesome!  I didn't know that.  I just know that I want the X-Statik with a single mid driver, a closed back and a BG tweeter.  Of course GR Danny already designed it.......

[DannyBadorine]

IIRC, when they were developing the Neo3 waveguide there were a number of prototypes cut with different tweaks to the shape to get the response Danny wanted. So reproducing it may not be as straight forward as you think.

No doubt!   That's why I need help, but the NX Studio waveguide should work great.  Any of the recessed waveguides for the BG tweeter will work for me.  I just need it to be recessed properly so the timing is correct and I don't have to use DSP to take out the phase issues between the mid and highs.

[subsonic1050]

There are CAD files, but GR Research doesn't share them. It's part of their intellectual property. I actually asked for dimensions for the NX-tremes because I have a CNC.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

On my X-statiks the tweeter and mids were partially burned/broken in outside the cabinet before I installed them.

And once they were finished I got almost no low mids or bass until near the bottom of their range. Turned out I accidentally wired the bass woofers out of phase.  After that, the sounded much more balanced, but still had a pretty weak bottom end the first few days.
But they were sounding nice and full by the end of that week. 

So if the top end sounds unusually hot, with almost no mids or bass make sure your lower woofers are wired properly.

If they just sound just a little lacking, they'll just need some time to wake up. Spend some time with them playing loud, and some with them playing soft and that will help loosen the suspension and keeping the crossover burning in overnight.

When I lent mine to Ron on Friday, we spent a couple hours listening to them, and they were just a touch hot on a couple spots, but I'm almost it was just the copper caps needing a little more time.

But they absolutely held their own compared to the $13,000 speakers he had playing first. They both had great imaging & soundstage, but compared to the Statiks, those speakers only played from the speaker forward. The Statiks had depth that pulled some of the soundstage back behind them.

Sounding like you were sitting in the front row, rather than standing center stage.. if that makes sense?

But so far, I'm really impressed with the X-Statiks, they have absolutely been worth the time and effort!

[DannyBadorine]

There are CAD files, but GR Research doesn't share them. It's part of their intellectual property. I actually asked for dimensions for the NX-tremes because I have a CNC.

I totally respect them not sharing the CAD files since they did all of the work on it.  I would do the same.

[subsonic1050]

On my X-statiks the tweeter and mids were partially burned/broken in outside the cabinet before I installed them.

And once they were finished I got almost no low mids or bass until near the bottom of their range. Turned out I accidentally wired the bass woofers out of phase.  After that, the sounded much more balanced, but still had a pretty weak bottom end the first few days.
But they were sounding nice and full by the end of that week. 

So if the top end sounds unusually hot, with almost no mids or bass make sure your lower woofers are wired properly.

If they just sound just a little lacking, they'll just need some time to wake up. Spend some time with them playing loud, and some with them playing soft and that will help loosen the suspension and keeping the crossover burning in overnight.

When I lent mine to Ron on Friday, we spent a couple hours listening to them, and they were just a touch hot on a couple spots, but I'm almost it was just the copper caps needing a little more time.

But they absolutely held their own compared to the $13,000 speakers he had playing first. They both had great imaging & soundstage, but compared to the Statiks, those speakers only played from the speaker forward. The Statiks had depth that pulled some of the soundstage back behind them.

Sounding like you were sitting in the front row, rather than standing center stage.. if that makes sense?

But so far, I'm really impressed with the X-Statiks, they have absolutely been worth the time and effort!

That's really awesome Hobbs. I have to say that I listened a little more last night after continuing to break in all day. All of the issues I mentioned were still there, BUT, critically, everything seemed to have improved - particularly the harshness. It was still present, but I have hope these things will smooth out and become a real joy.

[Danny Richie]

Hey Dannybadorine,

A couple of things...

On your new build: Push that tweeter up to the top of the box to minimize the surface area reflections, or cut the top of the box off.

Then bring it to me and I'll design a crossover for it.

Plus, you can then hear all of those other models that you are interested in.

Regarding the X-Statik (subsonic): The top end on those things are far from hot. I hate overly bright or hot top end speakers, by the way. Those tweeters are really smooth. So if you are getting a hot top end then something else is causing it.

Also, as others have said, they do need a good 200 hours of burn in time to smooth out more and open up.

[subsonic1050]

Regarding the X-Statik (subsonic): The top end on those things are far from hot. I hate overly bright or hot top end speakers, by the way. Those tweeters are really smooth. So if you are getting a hot top end then something else is causing it.

Also, as others have said, they do need a good 200 hours of burn in time to smooth out more and open up.

Hey thanks Danny - I posted an update on my build thread last night after around 50 hours of break in. They have indeed smoothed out VERY considerably. They are a very good speaker for sure. I'm curious to see how much more they'll improve over the next 150 hours.

[DannyBadorine]

Hey Dannybadorine,

A couple of things...

On your new build: Push that tweeter up to the top of the box to minimize the surface area reflections, or cut the top of the box off.

Then bring it to me and I'll design a crossover for it.

Plus, you can then hear all of those other models that you are interested in.

Regarding the X-Statik (subsonic): The top end on those things are far from hot. I hate overly bright or hot top end speakers, by the way. Those tweeters are really smooth. So if you are getting a hot top end then something else is causing it.

Also, as others have said, they do need a good 200 hours of burn in time to smooth out more and open up.

I will definitely push that tweeter up.  When I measured it as it currently is, I didn't see any problems with reflections on the tweeter, but there were some weird stuff around 2K on the mid range.  I'm wondering if flush mounting that would help.  I plan on designing the crossover myself since I have this speaker rigged up and tri-amped right now, but I think it would be cool to send it to you after and see what you come up with. 
Most importantly, do you have any interest in helping me get the front baffle designed so I can recess that tweeter like your NX Studios?  That's my biggest obstacle.
For the record here, I have never heard the X-Statik's and I am only designing something different because it's a hobby and I like Planar tweeters much better.  The low end of my speaker (which is 100% your design on the X Statik) blew me away.  Those things are going much lower than I thought they would for a sealed design and they're super tight.  That was on first listen without any break in.

[Danny Richie]

If the tweeter isn't flush mounted it needs to be.

[Norman Tracy]

DannyBadorine wrote:

I am designing and building a prototype speaker based on the X Statik but I'm using a Bohlender Graebener Neo 3 tweeter and an M130 woofer for mid and high, but the bottom is pretty much the same as the X Statik.  I have already built the prototype and I am testing it for crossover points and slopes so I can design my own passive crossover.  I don't have a CNC router or large table saw so my woodwork is not as exact as I would like.  I would like to find someone who can make me a flatpack based on my design.  Most importantly, I need to get the tweeter recessed the same way as the NX-studio so that the phase is lined up.  Here's a picture of the prototype that I have tried-amped and processed with a miniDSP to figure out the crossover design and tweeter delay.  They are fully closed back (unlike the X Statik).  Does anybody want to help?  I am certainly willing to pay for this service.  Being in Southern California will make things easier.

Danny B, I have the capability to help you with CNCing your prototype. I believe your project and mine have a synergy we can leverage. After a recent visit to GR I left with the project to change one of my designs from an Asia sourced ribbon to the Neo 3. Towards that end I will design and prototype both simple flat mounts and a couple of waveguides for the Neo 3. I believe one of the waveguides will work for your project and I can also CNC a flat pack of your design for you. Alas I am not in California, rather Oklahoma. This could facilitate passing the design thru GR Research if you take Danny R up on his offer to “bring it to me and I'll design a crossover for it”.

Presently I am at the stage of getting the flat baffle prototype up and playing. The pics show it atop my Purifi woofer design I call Fi16 with the Neo 3 upping that to version Fi16v4.







These have been playing just since last Wednesday, I agree with the discussions above break in of the Neo 3 is a real deal. Day after turning them on my HiFi friends Michael and Leo came over for our regular Thursday listening evening and we agreed while sounding good there was something closed down and lacking in top end ‘air’. By Sunday that was all better, and I am really liking what I hear from the Neo 3. Design and engineering is all about compromises. The flat baffle on the plus side can be laser cut for relatively low cost and easily adjusted for time alignment, with the negatives including more diffraction sources than ideal. If the prototype continues to show promise I will switch to clear acrylic as Wolf von Langa does in their WVL model.



This photo taken on my work bench shows a ¾” deep waveguide prototype. Not my first Neo 3 waveguide proto, but the first good enough to show in public. Also seen are the back side brackets that aid fitting the Neo 3 to a flat surface in both the flat baffle and waveguides.



This waveguide is about 5” in diameter and ¾” depth in what I call the ‘puck’ form factor. Cut as this round shape it is intended to be easy to DIY install given cutting accurate sized round holes is a skill acquired early once graduating to box building. This also allows painting the puck or cutting it in hardwoods while allowing the remainder of the baffle to be veneered or otherwise finished like a speaker with dome tweeter holes.

Other Neo 3 waveguides I have planned include a larger one 6 to 7 inches diameter similar to those used by Amphion, Buchardt Audio and the just introduced Paradigm Founder series.





Trade-offs of the larger diameter is of course what Danny R so often points out the nulls in off axis vertical response due to greater tweeter to (mid)woofer distances. What I am interested in exploring is accepting a bit of that off-axis null to gain crossing the Neo 3 over lower (and one hopes) with a simpler crossover. The larger one has yet to make it out of CAD, the sound of the Neo 3 in my listening room should help keep it at the top of the project queue.

Next stage of this development cycle is to send the prototypes to Danny R to measure and I expect tear apart then adjust and repeat.

Danny B. if you are interested in my help CNCing your design send me your contact info via AudioCircle message and we can discuss scope and costs.

[DannyBadorine]

DannyBadorine wrote:

I am designing and building a prototype speaker based on the X Statik but I'm using a Bohlender Graebener Neo 3 tweeter and an M130 woofer for mid and high, but the bottom is pretty much the same as the X Statik.  I have already built the prototype and I am testing it for crossover points and slopes so I can design my own passive crossover.  I don't have a CNC router or large table saw so my woodwork is not as exact as I would like.  I would like to find someone who can make me a flatpack based on my design.  Most importantly, I need to get the tweeter recessed the same way as the NX-studio so that the phase is lined up.  Here's a picture of the prototype that I have tried-amped and processed with a miniDSP to figure out the crossover design and tweeter delay.  They are fully closed back (unlike the X Statik).  Does anybody want to help?  I am certainly willing to pay for this service.  Being in Southern California will make things easier.

Danny B, I have the capability to help you with CNCing your prototype. I believe your project and mine have a synergy we can leverage. After a recent visit to GR I left with the project to change one of my designs from an Asia sourced ribbon to the Neo 3. Towards that end I will design and prototype both simple flat mounts and a couple of waveguides for the Neo 3. I believe one of the waveguides will work for your project and I can also CNC a flat pack of your design for you. Alas I am not in California, rather Oklahoma. This could facilitate passing the design thru GR Research if you take Danny R up on his offer to “bring it to me and I'll design a crossover for it”.

Presently I am at the stage of getting the flat baffle prototype up and playing. The pics show it atop my Purifi woofer design I call Fi16 with the Neo 3 upping that to version Fi16v4.







These have been playing just since last Wednesday, I agree with the discussions above break in of the Neo 3 is a real deal. Day after turning them on my HiFi friends Michael and Leo came over for our regular Thursday listening evening and we agreed while sounding good there was something closed down and lacking in top end ‘air’. By Sunday that was all better, and I am really liking what I hear from the Neo 3. Design and engineering is all about compromises. The flat baffle on the plus side can be laser cut for relatively low cost and easily adjusted for time alignment, with the negatives including more diffraction sources than ideal. If the prototype continues to show promise I will switch to clear acrylic as Wolf von Langa does in their WVL model.



This photo taken on my work bench shows a ¾” deep waveguide prototype. Not my first Neo 3 waveguide proto, but the first good enough to show in public. Also seen are the back side brackets that aid fitting the Neo 3 to a flat surface in both the flat baffle and waveguides.



This waveguide is about 5” in diameter and ¾” depth in what I call the ‘puck’ form factor. Cut as this round shape it is intended to be easy to DIY install given cutting accurate sized round holes is a skill acquired early once graduating to box building. This also allows painting the puck or cutting it in hardwoods while allowing the remainder of the baffle to be veneered or otherwise finished like a speaker with dome tweeter holes.

Other Neo 3 waveguides I have planned include a larger one 6 to 7 inches diameter similar to those used by Amphion, Buchardt Audio and the just introduced Paradigm Founder series.





Trade-offs of the larger diameter is of course what Danny R so often points out the nulls in off axis vertical response due to greater tweeter to (mid)woofer distances. What I am interested in exploring is accepting a bit of that off-axis null to gain crossing the Neo 3 over lower (and one hopes) with a simpler crossover. The larger one has yet to make it out of CAD, the sound of the Neo 3 in my listening room should help keep it at the top of the project queue.

Next stage of this development cycle is to send the prototypes to Danny R to measure and I expect tear apart then adjust and repeat.

Danny B. if you are interested in my help CNCing your design send me your contact info via AudioCircle message and we can discuss scope and costs.
[/
Awesome work!  I will PM you so we can discuss this and maybe work something out.