Resistors with very low inductance -> speaker crossover and in others places

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maty

Better to put my comments on a specific thread, separate from the bypass capacitors.


Replaced the cheap cement resistor of Bennic 0R68 5 watts with another of Mills MRA05 5 watts 0.68 Ohms. The air runs below. It has taken a while to remove the cemented resistance, which was also stuck. Luckily we were two people, one desoldering and the other stretching.

[PDF] https://hfc-fs.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/mills_data_0.pdf


I have waited for the same person with whom I made the previous changes to be with me: bypass with the cheap NOS styroflex / polystyrene and after with Miflex KPCU-01 0.01 uF 600 Vdc.

First left speaker (photo). The difference was very audible in front the right. With the two speakers improved the sound has improved greatly. It is as if the tweeters had been behind a curtain!



And yes, you can see steel nuts and... in the speaker connectors. The magnet is your friend.

In the end I will end up building the filter on a wood and point-to-point connections, in addition to changing the wiring and connectors!

Klipsch RP-600M Upgrade, by Danny Richie

-> https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166535.msg1770733#msg1770733

-> https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166535.msg1771815#msg1771815
« Last Edit: 9 Feb 2020, 10:47 am by maty »


maty

Re: Resistors with very low inductance -> speaker crossover
« Reply #2 on: 22 Dec 2019, 09:54 am »
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_62_449.html

I can understand, accept that there is a difference with respect to a normal resistor but it is that the Bennic's cemented one is advertised as having very little inductance. I suspect it is not so small.

https://www.bennic.com.tw/en/resistors/index.asp

At the end of the page:

Quote
BENNIC   CEMENT POWER RESISTORS
     
SQF Series (Flat Sheet Type )

1. Low inductance.
2. Safety flameproof construction.
3. Thin Light weight body save the PCB space considerably.
4. Tolerance available ±10%, ±5% ±2% .

Without specifying the data, low inductance can be relative, very relative.  :(

maty

Re: Resistors with very low inductance -> speaker crossover
« Reply #3 on: 22 Dec 2019, 09:54 am »
http://www.mundorf.com/en/?category=hifi&menu=resistors_fuses&content=mresist_supreme

Quote


With our MResist SUPREME you can enjoy even finest details and spatial information which normally get lsot. Due to the complec bifilar structure from 1Ω with two wires being wound around the high-temperature-resistant cement element simultaneously the inductance is always below 0.075µH.

In addition. the MResist SUPREME series features acoustic neutrality and music reproduction close to reality. This is due to a special manually applied fire-resistant casting compound which optimally fices and stabilises the resistor winding thus protecting it against microphony effects.

In order to maintain high sound quality even at high load. we apply a special copper-nickel alloy as conducting material featuring a positive and extremely low temperature coefficient of only 50ppm/°C...

maty

Re: Resistors with very low inductance -> speaker crossover
« Reply #4 on: 22 Dec 2019, 09:55 am »
To finish with resistor off-topic,




Crossover Resistor Sound

[PDF] http://duelundaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3621/2016/02/Resistors-vol5-no-3-HIFICritic-Hi-Res.pdf

Quote
Capacitors show self-resonance, frequency-dependent dielectric loss and microphony; inductors have magnetic hysteresis, saturation and self-capacitance, among several defects. Any of these may become audible under certain conditions in a revealing audio system. One might therefore suppose that resistors at least are audibly perfect, or at least very close to it...




Audiophile debate: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/top-resistors?sort_order=desc

Summing up, after investigating pros and cons with searchers, I chose Mills MRA, which are also preferred by Danny Richie. Several complaints that the Mundorf Supreme are brighter (just the opposite of what I was looking for); Mills more focused on mids or more warm.

maty

Re: Resistors with very low inductance -> speaker crossover
« Reply #5 on: 22 Dec 2019, 09:55 am »
Finish II

It has reminded me of the big white resistors inside my modified AVR Marantz SR4500...

Old picture



Service manual -> 0.27 Ohms 5 watts

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/content/mra05-040-0r27-5w-mra05-mills-resistor-027r



Tyson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11103
  • Audio - It's all a big fake.
I was using the M Supreme in my Super 7 crossover before and then switched to the Path Audio copper resistor.  The Path resistor sounds better.

maty

Brighter, warmer... maybe the explanation is that the resistors change the harmonic profile.

* Mundorf Supreme, bright -> dominant H3 ?

* Mills MRA, warm -> dominant H2 ?

xrk971 reported changes in the harmonic profile of the DIY class A ALPHA 20 after testing several types of resistors for a single resistor. With graphs.


Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153802.msg1673739#msg1673739

Quote
Reason? Maybe it has something to do with the harmonics, I speculate. xrk971 detected and measured what happened with a resistance from the new DIY class A ALPHA. He put a thin metal resistor and the harmonic profile changed to H3 predominant. It changed to a carbon and was H2 predominant again. Then changed to a thick metal and kept H2 predominant. Same values off course...

maty

Purifi PTT6.5 Woofer and 1ET400A Amplifier Technology Review by mitchco

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/purifi-ptt65-woofer-and-1et400a-amplifier-technology-review-r866/

Purifi SPK4 Loudspeaker Demo Kit crossover

Optimized and clarified



The use of audiophile components in the demo is striking. All Jantzen components. Resistors: Jantzen 5W Superes

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/jantzen-5w-superes-resistors.html

Quote
Characteristics:

    1 % Tolerance
    Low noise figure
    Low inductance less than 0.7 uH
    Instant overload capacity
    Super heat dissipation, small linear temperature coefficient
    Low annual shift
    Flameprood and lightweight


With professional Speakon connectors. Neutrik. My choice too if I built a DIY loudspeakers after the new DIY amplifier + RME ADI-2 DAC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakon_connector

maty

Off topic

Very interesting:

I thought I would ask Purifi’s Lars Risbo, one of the brains behind the PTT6.5 woofer, to describe their design approach on how they were able to obtain such low measured intermodulation distortion numbers:
 
Quote
“Our PTT6.5 woofer is the result of about 4 years of research. It has been a fruitful teamwork between Bruno, Carsten, Morten, and myself. This has resulted in a design that is vastly different from conventional drivers. In short, we have been on a crusade against all sources of intermodulation distortion. Psychoacoustics has correctly shown that our ears are not that sensitive to pure harmonic distortion – especially in the bass. However, our ears are way less forgiving when it comes to IMD when listening to complex music program material. Since it is impossible to only generate harmonic distortion without IMD, it has been necessary to reduce all nonlinear mechanisms in a speaker.

The most known source of IMD is the position dependent force factor Bl(x) which we have made ruler flat over +-6mm excursion (+-10mm at -10% Bl). Less known is the current and frequency dependent modulation of the force factor (aka force factor modulation, flux modulation, reluctance force) which we have reduced by up to 40dB over comparable standard motors. Then we have the position dependent inductance which causes a modulation of the drive current, again reduced by a huge factor. A new (re)discovery is the gain modulation caused by the varying radiating area of conventional surrounds – this can cause an amplitude modulation of the midrange by +-10% easily. This has been reduced by orders of magnitude by our very special surround geometry.

Finally, an extremely annoying distortion mechanism is the hysteretic memory of the iron in the motor. This distortion leads to a grainy non dynamic sound and lack of ‘black canvas’. We have managed to reduce this distortion by up to 50dB compared to industry benchmark drivers. Interestingly, the exact same hysteretic distortion can be found in class D amplifier output coils. Our 1ET400A amplifier embeds the coil in a control loop with over 70dB loop gain all the way to 20 kHz which effectively removes this distortion. We believe that the class D coil’s hysteretic distortion has been a large part of the bad reputation of early class D designs.”

One of the improvements, in components, of the new PURIFI 1ET4OOA versus Hypex NCxxx is the new coil. Only at 20 kHz and...



maty

Mundorf M-Resist Ultra foil resistor



Picture from https://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/blogging-on-audio/201-howard-kneller/904-first-look-and-listen-magicos-new-a5-loudspeaker

Rotated and optimized.

In Mundorf's site the resistor does not appear so there is no page with the specifications  :(

maty

Vishay.

http://www.vishaypg.com/foil-resistors/

Quote
Precision resistors built on VFR's unique Bulk Metal® Foil technology provide very low temperature coefficient of resistance (TCR) and exceptional long-term stability even in extreme temperatures. The devices provide a wide range of resistance values, with any resistance value within their given range available at any tolerance with no additional cost or lead time effect. On top of this specific “as required” values can be supplied at no extra cost or delivery...

Ten Technical Reasons to Choose VFR Resistors for Your Circuit

[PDF] http://www.vishaypg.com/docs/49788/10reasns.pdf


maty

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/346817-10f-rs225-fast-speaker-xo-pcb-gb-post6026228.html

by xrk971

Quote
You might try KOA Speer BPR series power resistors. They have essentially zero inductance as they are made from a cut plate of metal (no windiings of any sort or spiral cut metal thin film etc). I have measured a reduction of harmonic distortion vs even the venerable Panasonic ERX series resistors, which were my previous favorites.

http://www.koaspeer.com/catimages/Products/BPR/BPR.pdf

I have not seen anyone use these for XO's, but why not? They are 5W, so to get 10W, use half the value in series. They are not expensive either and take up little room on a PCB.

I'll have to check out the Mills resistors. Maybe they would work well as amplifier MOSFET source or BJT emitter resistors as well.


maty

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/347259-causes-resistor-distortion-post6028535.html

by simon7000

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Three curves showing resistor distortion. Using my bridge technique the fundamental of 0 level is suppressed.

First a good Dale RN65 resistor, second an Ohmite 1/2 watt carbon composition type and finally the effect frequency has on another Dale.

On the CC resistor it is not just the added harmonics, note the base spreading which can be caused by an increase in 1/f noise.

On the third image notice how the third harmonic distortion increases as frequency decreases. Also not there is not much change in the second harmonic for a two octave change in frequency.

PS: you need to be registered to see the three graphs.

maty