Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts

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ctviggen

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Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« on: 29 Mar 2007, 05:48 pm »
I'm currently following this program:

http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Lifting-Maximum-Muscle/dp/1583332383

I like this routine, because it places much more stress on full body/core areas and it's quite hard.  However, I injured my back performing squats and my chiroprator recommends I stay away from squats and deadlifts.

What exercises can I use to replace squats and deadlifts?  For squats, I was thinking leg presses of some sort (perhaps on 45 degree machine), but I'm at a loss as to what to do for deadlifts.  Good mornings and the like seem as if they still place quite a bit of pressure on the lower back. 

Thanks for any recommendations!

ctviggen

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Re: Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« Reply #1 on: 29 Mar 2007, 05:49 pm »
I should note that basically every routine in the book has an exercise that's squat-like or deadlift-like. 

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« Reply #2 on: 29 Mar 2007, 06:50 pm »
12 oz curls, one arm at a time!  :beer:

ctviggen

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Re: Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« Reply #3 on: 29 Mar 2007, 07:12 pm »
That's how I got into needing to go to the gym!  ;-)  (And, more seriously, hurting my back -- a beer belly is not good for your back.)

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« Reply #4 on: 29 Mar 2007, 07:43 pm »
Good point, I suppose that's why you've been posting in the Bourbon thread!  :lol:
Less calories, more buzz!

Bob

sorry, OT over!  :D

ctviggen

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Re: Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« Reply #5 on: 29 Mar 2007, 07:54 pm »
Well, while we're on the subject, I tried some bourbons, but they're too similar for me.  I've since moved onto to scotches, but I have to be careful with any non-nutrient-dense items, like alcohol.  Sadly, I've had to curtail my drinking in an effort to get down to a reasonable weight.  I have a goal of 2-3 50ml drinks per week, though sometimes I stray.

kmcdonou4eq5

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Re: Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« Reply #6 on: 29 Mar 2007, 07:55 pm »
I hurt my back several times doing squats and deadlifts using traditional bars and decided it wasn't worth the risk after a while.  I did try to do them using a trap bar (http://sfuk.tripod.com/reviews/trapbar_review.html), but my hamstrings are so tight it was hard to get in a low enough position without occasionally straining my back.  However, if you are more flexible, this could be an option.

Thankfully, for the past year I have safely been using a standup squat machine.  Most people use it for calf raises as it has padded shoulder supports.  However, it is great for squats. Since the weight is on your shoulders, and your hands hold onto parallel grips in front of you, you can keep your back totally upright. Very little stress on the lower back.  It is really a nice unit (made by Magnum).  Unfortunately I have never seen a gym with this equipment other than the one at my university. 

That said, I've used a horizontal leg press from Hammer Strength that is totally killer.  Really good workout.  You don't get the biomechanical advantage you do with many leg presses. As long as I didn't move the seat too far forward to round my lower back, I never had any discomfort in my back while using this unit. I believe Hammer Strength also makes a horizontal squat machine, but I've never seen it in a gym.  The standard 45 degree leg presses tend to work my hips more than my legs. 

For home, I use an exercise I modified from one in a strength magazine.  You build two 12" square boxes.  You put these boxes close to the side of a power rack (http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/powerracks.html).  So, your boxes are facing one of the support rods.  On the inside of the power rack, on the side closest to your boxes, you put a small box or cement block on its side. On top of that you put a plate loading pin with carabiner (http://www6.mailordercentral.com/ironmind/prodinfo.asp?number=1314%2DC).

You load weight plates on the loading pin.  Then using a hip squat belt (http://www6.mailordercentral.com/ironmind/prodinfo.asp?number=1220), you attach a webbing strap to the carabiner and your belt and step up on your 12" boxes.  The weight swings between your legs and you hold onto the support bar of the power rack while squatting down. 

Zero pressure on your back because the weight is supported by your hips.  Actually, the hip belt can be used to support a barbell between your legs, but I found squatting with such a bar awkward.  The weight plate is much better, although you sort of have to keep your legs slightly farther apart then a normal upright squat if you use the wider 45# plates. 

I've never wanted to give up squats because of their value. With my box squats and the upright squat machine, I know I can work my legs without straining my back. 

As far as deadlifts, there are safer ways to build your legs and lower back.  Squats done with safe equipment handle your legs.  I don't bother with lower back. It gets enough stimulation from my machine squats or weighted situps from a glute-ham bench (http://www.fitstrength.com/Glute_Ham.htm). However, you could do back extensions or I found I can safely do stiff leg deadlifts (as long as my knees are bent and I don't do too much weight).  The stiff leg deadlifts will work your hamstrings and your lower back.  I wouldn't recommend them until your back gets stronger (if ever).

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« Reply #7 on: 29 Mar 2007, 08:06 pm »
I have a goal of 2-3 50ml drinks per week, though sometimes I stray.

 :wink: I understand

Hey Bob, have you tried one of those inverted tables for your back? I've talked to a few guys with lower back problems that love these things. Obviously it's not a workout, just kind of a "re-alignment" thing.
I've got a bad lower back too. Never tried the tables though.

Bob

tex-amp

Re: Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« Reply #8 on: 29 Mar 2007, 08:33 pm »
Start doing pilates to strengthen your core muscles and correct your body alignment. Your chiropractor's adjustments are temporary as your body's muscles are going to pull your body back out of alignment. Pilates retrains your muscles to maintain proper alignment.

I'm 6'3" and have had terrible lower back pain for years until a doctor sent me to pilates last year.

Emil

Re: Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« Reply #9 on: 29 Mar 2007, 08:43 pm »
Ctviggen

I wouldn't give up on the deadlifts just yet. Its a great exercise. I'm sure you already know, technique is very important for this lift.
I would tweak my lowerback on occasion deadlifting so I feel your pain. I went with a shrug bar and things improved but I did happen to tweak it again. After some research, I've read that strengthening your core will help prevent lowerback strain. Also, keep doing the "good mornings". Drop the weight a bit if you still feel pressure on your lower back.

You could try deadlifting with your feet further apart than shoulder width. That should help.

John Casler

Re: Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« Reply #10 on: 30 Mar 2007, 01:36 am »
Hi Bob,

Now your getting into my "day" job.

The "New Rules" has its title wrong.  Those are the "old rules".

And your chiro, while trying to be helpful, is a little off the mark too.

The idea is not to strengthen the legs, or really any specific bodypart.  The idea is that they all must function in an integrated, balanced and functional way.

To continue to strengthen the legs, or any specific group, while letting the Torso/Back decondition will only insure that the same problem will happen over and over.

In fact it is far more important to have the torso strengthened "beyond" the capacity of the legs so that the "legs" are the limiting factor and not the deconditioned Torso Stabilization Mechanism.

So there are times when you have to start all over, and at the beginning, and this is one of them.  To simply push on with the legs, and "let" the back heal will not yield a good result, since as soon as you bring the Torso back into the loop, the imbalance will cause a higher percentage chance of injury.

SO....

I know it is hard, but as soon as you are out of the "acute" (when you are relativley pain free during movement) stages, do the following:

1) Make sure and warm up the back before exercise.  This IS NOT stretching!!!!.

Stretching is generally a forward flexion of the spine and this is what caused your problem in the first place.  Forward flexion (bending) of the spine (especially the lumbar/low back spine) compresses the anterior portion of each lumbar disc.  It also "opens" and decompresses the posterior portion.  This anterior compression creates a hydraulic pressure forcing the nucleous pulposus (thick fluid like center of the disc) to exert pressure to the posterior disc walls (anular rings) and if the pressure is great enough it cause a distortion or bulging to the disc that can push into the posterior lateral (rear side) nerve canal and you are in deep doo doo :duh:

2) You must start all over, and develop the "flexibility" needed to hit the bottom portion of the DL and SQT without the lower back losing a rather tight and slight arch.

As soon as that arch moves from arch to flat undler load, you are creating BIG PROBLEMS.

3) So start with the bar only and if it is too heavy use a broomstick.

For both squats, and deadlifts, use an "exagerated" Head UP/Butt Out/Back Arched posture through every portion of the exercise except the top.

With the bar only, do a minimum of 30 reps with that perfect "exagerarated" form and DO NOT allow it to change especially at the bottom of each rep.

NEVER look down, and always keep your butt out.

Then when you feel comfortable performing the reps securely with the bar only, especially in the bottom postition, then begin adding weight, at no more than 10- 20# a week, until you are back up to where you were before the injury.

The bad news, is you can NEVER just relax, when you train heavy.  The whole idea is to make the body a solid mass, from which to absorb, transmit, or create force.

Jello is a lousy force platform or conduit, solid steel is a good one.

Never forget to do at least one set of 30 with a light weight to warm up.  When you decide you are beyond that, that is the day you'll discover that you aren't.

But if you focus on the Torso, rather than the legs, the legs will do just fine.

But if you focus on the legs and let the Torso get behind, you're setting up for problems.

Been there, done that.

I teach workshops on it (TSM) on occasion.

b5pt9

Re: Exercises to replace Squats and Deadlifts
« Reply #11 on: 30 Mar 2007, 02:24 am »
I've been doing lunges with dumbells recently, seems to be very effective and easy on my knees and back.