AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Planar Circle => Topic started by: Jazzman53 on 19 Feb 2020, 02:16 am
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Since October of last year I've been working on my biggest-ever speaker project, and in the coming weeks I will be posting some photos, as the project nears completion.
Several of my Carver-Fest buddies have been bending my ear for years to build them some speakers, but until now I've declined because my designs are tedious and exhausting builds, I'm not young anymore (66) and I still work full time. For better or worse; I finally agreed to do it.
I'm about 85% through building four (4) pairs of a hybrid design with a 12" woofer in an open baffle (modified H-baffle). The frames are red oak and ESL panels use symmetrically segmented wire stators supported on an oak lattice. The video below shows a similar speaker that I built in 2018, and also shows me building one of the wire stators for the new speaker project.
More to come, but for now; enjoy the video!
https://youtu.be/814iWnmz6_4
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204870)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204871)
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I am so lucky to be one of those Carverfest buddies. This is the real deal. Every time Charlie brought his Stats to Carverfest, it was the best sounding imho as well as others that heard it.
Thank you Charlie. May the force be with you. :D
Since October of last year I've been working on my biggest-ever speaker project, and in the coming weeks I will be posting some photos, as the project nears completion.
Several of my Carver-Fest buddies have been bending my ear for years to build them some speakers, but until now I've declined because my designs are tedious and exhausting builds, I'm not young anymore (66) and I still work full time. For better or worse; I finally agreed to do it.
I'm about 85% through building four (4) pairs of a hybrid design with a 12" woofer in an open baffle (modified H-baffle). The frames are red oak and ESL panels use symmetrically segmented wire stators supported on an oak lattice. The video below shows a similar speaker that I built in 2018, and also shows me building one of the wire stators for the new speaker project.
More to come, but for now; enjoy the video!
https://youtu.be/814iWnmz6_4
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204870)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204871)
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Surprised here, Donald... I didn't even know you were on this forum!
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One of my favorite forums. Wealth of knowledge is exchanged on this forum. Don’t post much, but read a lot.
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More build pics:
Below: Lattice support details for (16) stators
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204877)
Below: Speaker frame glue-up
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204878)
Below: Staining & satin clear coating the frames
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204879)
Below: Amplifier/panel interface (bias power supply & step up transformers)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204880)
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I will be the first to say " I WANT TO BE THERE" when all of the finished speakers are playing at ONCE :flame:
I am very flexible for travel times.
Alan
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Yeehaw! This is so freakin' cool.
The woodworking is as interesting as the speaker itself...at least to me.
I believe you about the patience and commitment it takes. Once started, it kinda takes on a life if its own, I'll bet.
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Yeehaw! This is so freakin' cool.
The woodworking is as interesting as the speaker itself...at least to me.
I believe you about the patience and commitment it takes. Once started, it kinda takes on a life if its own, I'll bet.
It also includes a suicidal phase where you wish you had never started it.
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More pics:
Stator lattices temporarily assembled for spray stain & clear coat:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204885)
Stator wires being stretched to plastic deformation to render them straight:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204883)
Stator support lattice assembled over the wires, in the stretching jig:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204884)
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I will be the first to say " I WANT TO BE THERE" when all of the finished speakers are playing at ONCE :flame:
I am very flexible for travel times.
Alan
PM me when you're ready to visit and I'll send you my address. BTW; the speakers are bi-amp'd and I'm running short on amps & crossovers so please bring six amps and three DSP crossovers with you.
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One of 16 stators:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205160)
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Wow. How are you bending the stator wire so precisely?
Rocket Ronny
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Wow. How are you bending the stator wire so precisely?
Rocket Ronny
The bends in the wire loops result from the wires being stretched around the pins in the stretching jig. The wires were strung up into my jig and stretched to 1% elongation to render them perfectly straight; as shown in this video: https://youtu.be/814iWnmz6_4
I'll be posting another video soon showing the remaining steps of assembling the electrostatic panels.
Stay tuned!
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PM me when you're ready to visit and I'll send you my address. BTW; the speakers are bi-amp'd and I'm running short on amps & crossovers so please bring six amps and three DSP crossovers with you.
I've been compiling a list of Pawn shops and used audio stores between Oregon and Texas. I took a break and was watching your video on stretching and......why did I think you lived in Texas. That drawl/TWANG SOUNDS LIKE GEORGIA :duh: :duh: :duh:
If I could just get the wife to cross the Mississippi I would think this a great spring time drive. And considering I have made a few three day road trips to here speakers already.
It aint over yet yuall...............
Alan
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I've been compiling a list of Pawn shops and used audio stores between Oregon and Texas. I took a break and was watching your video on stretching and......why did I think you lived in Texas. That drawl/TWANG SOUNDS LIKE GEORGIA :duh: :duh: :duh:
If I could just get the wife to cross the Mississippi I would think this a great spring time drive. And considering I have made a few three day road trips to here speakers already.
It aint over yet yuall...............
Alan
Yup, Texans have a drawl too but us Georgia boys can squeeze 4 syllables from a 3 letter word :-)
Alan, I would love to have you visit and hear my speakers. In fact; you have a standing invitation.
Charlie
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Update Tuesday March 3:
All (8) ESL panels, power supplies & speaker frames are completed.
Now assembling the (16) segmentation resistor networks.
Still have to buy woofers and make the grills.
Here's another video; showing the diaphragms being installed and the panels assembled:
https://youtu.be/ECM3gfrJPxQ
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As an intermediate woodworker of smaller projects, I'd love to know how you cut the fingerjoints on the vertical frame pieces. I've only ever seen fingerjoint or dovetail cuts done when the workpiece is vertical, either business end up (via hand saw or router jig) or down (via router table or table saw), but those pieces appear way too long for those methods.
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As an intermediate woodworker of smaller projects, I'd love to know how you cut the fingerjoints on the vertical frame pieces. I've only ever seen fingerjoint or dovetail cuts done when the workpiece is vertical, either business end up (via hand saw or router jig) or down (via router table or table saw), but those pieces appear way too long for those methods.
I cut those finger joints on my table saw, with the frame rails upright, using a simple jig cobbled together from scrap wood. But I did have to relocate the saw so that the frame rails would clear the ceiling rafters in my garage. This project (eight speakers) has been a huge amount of labor.
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This project (eight speakers) has been a huge amount of labor.
I'll bet! Wow. Good work.
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WOW AMAZING you sir are truly a professional just beautiful work. They look amazing and I bet the sound is just heavenly
I have owned 3 different Acoustats , model 3 ,2+2 and now 1+1 that need some work .
I have always had a love of electrostatics but now own speakers I built ( cone and ribbon drivers ) with plans from North creek music systems the manifest . I know the hard work and joy you get from building something for yourself.
Your build is way beyond my skill level but really enjoy your videos of the build thanks for posting.
Marc
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I believe you said you got my deposit, right?
Incredibly impressive work as always!
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I believe you said you got my deposit, right?
Incredibly impressive work as always!
Was that the $1.95 that showed up in my PayPal account?
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Oh, good, it DID get there!
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Update Saturday March 14, 2020:
The panels and segmentation resistor networks are installed in all eight speakers. Today I installed Peerless SLS 12 woofers in one pair and they're playing tonight. I delayed ordering woofers for the remaining speakers until I've had a chance to audition these. My first impression is the SLS 12's will be fine.
I still have to build the grills but it feels good to be wrapping this project up after 5 months of toil.
The photo and video below were made today.. enjoy!
https://youtu.be/Q_4sddiBEoU
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205925)
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I like that video.
It must be incredibly satisfying to hear them fire up and enjoy the tunes from something that you made yourself.
Anybody can whip out a credit card and buy a pair of speakers but not too many people can do the DIY route and have such spectacular results.
P.S.
Don't let this go to your head, you'll have to buy new hats.
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incredible! your audio society friends who are getting these are very lucky
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I like that video.
It must be incredibly satisfying to hear them fire up and enjoy the tunes from something that you made yourself.
Anybody can whip out a credit card and buy a pair of speakers but not too many people can do the DIY route and have such spectacular results.
P.S.
Don't let this go to your head, you'll have to buy new hats.
Thank you Steve. It was rewarding but I can really only claim credit for the woodwork. The remainder was possible for me only because of my mentors on the DIY Audio Forum; Steve Bolser and Rod White. I see my projects as merely paying it forward.
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Charlie,
They look great. Even give me goosebumps hearing them through my IPad. :lol: Terri and I super excited down here in Florida. Sold the Apogee’s I got from Jerry about two weeks ago. Therefore, have the perfect place for them. :thumb:
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Charlie,
They look great. Even give me goosebumps hearing them through my IPad. :lol:
im just a nobody - no affiliation to your inner circle - but in that youtube video - they do sound very good - thru my logitech computer speakers!
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im just a nobody - no affiliation to your inner circle - but in that youtube video - they do sound very good - thru my logitech computer speakers!
I must disagree with the first part of your statement; insofar as I think everyone has their own unique talents and no one is 'just a nobody'. And thanks so much for your compliment of my speaker build! I had a lot of help from my mentors (a.k.a Bolserst, Golfnut & Calvin) at the DIY Audio Forum.
The sound in the video above isn't from the speakers-- but an overlaid instrumental version of Joni Mitchell's "Help Me" performed by the Jodi Proznick Quartet. The video below, however, is an earlier version of the same speaker actually playing Dave Brubeck's "Take Five":
https://youtu.be/67Flmub-dYo
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Update 3/23/20:
All four pairs of speakers are fully completed except for the magnetically attached grills, which I started building today.
I spent the weekend sound testing every pair, and they all play to ridiculous volume with no apparent issues. For a $77 woofer; I'm pretty impressed with the Peerless SLS-- I was concerned it wouldn't be up to the task so I only ordered one pair initially. I should point out that so far I've only sound tested them chopped off at 60Hz and crossing into a pair of Ripol subs with a 24db filter slope. Thus unloaded on the bottom end; the Peerless woofers rock pretty well without bottoming out at X-max.
Parts Express had the black grill cloth but not the burgundy I want for my pair-- so I was happy to finally locate some 66" x 36" sections on Ebay. That order arrived today and it's only 54" x 36". With the Corona virus lurking and me old as dirt, I'd rather lose the refund than risk the post office to return a package.
Just one more delay in wrapping this project up...
In the meantime-- here's some more porn for all you planar pervs:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206290)
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Update 3/26/20:
Having a lot of problems with the grill frames. They looked great the day I built them but they bowed after a couple of days and I'm having to redo them. The first time I used white pine stiffeners on the hardboard frames, the second time I used poplar. Both bowed but the poplar bowed a bit less. So I'm cutting the stiffeners off and bonding new stiffeners on with the frames purposely bowed in the opposite direction, hoping they will bow back to near straight condition. I may end up giving them a week or so to stabilize, then cross cutting slots in the vertical stiffeners to relived the bow, and then gluing on some strips to re-stabilize. They will look nice if I can resolve the bowing issue:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206411)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206412)
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Jazzman,
If I remember correctly aren't you the one who got into planars when you heard music playing at a restaurant and you were surprised to see them coming from a speaker you could see through (Martin Logans) instead of the sound coming out of some box?
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Your memory is pretty close, Steve.
I had read magazine reviews of the ESL 57 and 63 but I had never heard an ESL until about 25 years ago when I walked into an audio store in Chattanooga where a pair of ML Summits were setup and playing.
What first caught my eye was a potted plant sitting behind one of the ML’s. The woofer on the bottom clued me I was looking at a speaker but seeing the potted plant thru its semi-transparent panel fascinated me, and the pristine clarity of the sound was spooky.
After that; my little Kenwood receiver and DIY conventional speakers at home sounded rather lifeless-- not much better than the little white Sears alarm clock radio by my bedside. That was a dark time.
Some years later I learned there were guys on the DIY Audio Forum rolling their own ESLs, and that resurrected my interest in DIY audio.
My very first ESLs built in 2008 sounded wonderful for approximately 20 seconds until the high voltage corona burned thru the paint coating along a stator edge. Arcing that sounded like someone typing on a manual machine triggered my amp’s protection shut down mode and I could smell the ozone in the air.
Thanks to the ESL gurus on the DIY Audio Forum, I’ve not had a panel fail since, and I’ve progressed over the years to the speakers you see here today. My DIY how-to website is my way of paying it forward.
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I remembered the plant which made me picture dinner at a restaurant.
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Hi all,
This project (all four speaker pairs) is finally completed, so this will be my last post on this thread unless it's in response to others.
I resolved the issue with the grill covers bowing and they turned out gorgeous.
I finally now have my dream speakers for life, and I'm sure the recipients of the other three pairs will feel the same way.
I'll just leave you with a last video of the speakers playing:
https://youtu.be/9HTKh58wYlo
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207725)
Enjoy!
Charlie
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I finally now have my dream speakers for life, and I'm sure the recipients of the other three pairs will feel the same way.
I'll just leave you with a last video of the speakers playing:
https://youtu.be/9HTKh58wYlo
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207725)
Enjoy!
Charlie
They seem to sound great even over Youtube.
This is exactly what this world needs more of :thumb:
Just curious. Are the speakers run full range (how low do they go?) and then the sealed(?) box subs are rolled in?
Anyway, congratulations!
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What was that tune? sounded like SRV.
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They seem to sound great even over Youtube.
This is exactly what this world needs more of :thumb:
Just curious. Are the speakers run full range (how low do they go?) and then the sealed(?) box subs are rolled in?
Anyway, congratulations!
My system is a 3-way setup using a DSP and crossover points at 60Hz and 250Hz via 24db/octave Linkwitz/Riley filters. And the midbass woofer signal is chopped off at the crossover point so the subs handle the entire bottom two octaves. This unloads the mid-bass woofers considerably and the system really ROCKS without forcing the midbass woofers to bottom out at X-max.
The subs are not sealed or ported boxes but are a Ripol design which has the woofers in opposing push/push configuration. The woofer chambers are open on the back-- so it's rather like a dipole with a folded baffle for compactness, and it's radiation pattern is a bit more cardroidal than figure-8. The off-axis output is completely nulled, so it tends not to excite any room modes -- very clean, great for jazz.
As previously noted; the flat ESL panels use phased array stators which bend the wave-front from planar to cylindrical. A physicist in New Zealand wrote a technical paper on how to do this and he helped me out with the design.
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What was that tune? sounded like SRV.
Yup... Riviera Paradise by SRV
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Just magnificent, Jazzman. I admire the tenacity, resourcefulness and skill it took to get the end result. Kudos!