[BobRex]

The active 10" is replaced by a 10" passive radiator, which obviously is not wired to anything.

You're missing my point.  In the current 30M, the 10" is wired in some series parallel configuration.  Now if the 10" is the series part, then removing it and NOT taking care of the wiring means that there is no circuit, and therefore no bass.  Since Brian mentioned "shortening" the woofer wires, from a series parallel to parallel configuration" (as per an earlier response), it is logical to consider the 10" as part of the series configuration.  If it were the parallel part, well then removing would just leave a series config. 

I'm just trying to figure out the wiring without having to pull woofers out of my speakers.

[Brian Cheney]

To answer cliffy, the single 10" PR vents the two active 6.5" more efficiently than the dual 6"PR vented the two active 6.5" PLUS the active 10".  It's a case of less equals more. 

It was merely a matter of determining the proper compliance of suspension and moving mass of the new PR while keeping moving mass realatively low. The new 10" PR  also features increased Xmax.  Try it, you'll like it.

The RM30 still does not produce first octave bass (16Hz-32Hz), but it was never designed to do so.  That's where the subwoofer comes in.  Most users won't feel it's necessary unless they are organ buffs.  Bass drum comes through clearly on the new version, for example. Bass quality is outstanding, and the CDWG's provide excellent soundstage depth and width, with precise imaging.

 

[Brian Cheney]

To answer Bob, in the old circuit the two 6.5" were in series with each other, and the 10" was in parallel with them for a 5.3 Ohm nominal load.

When rewired, the 10" active is gone, and the two 6.5" are in parallel with each other for a nominal  4 Ohm load   Since the 6.5" each have 1.5" 4 layer voicecoils and a metal phase plug, they still have about 400W of power handling with excellent extension and dynamics.

A DVD showing installation steps, theoretical underpinnings of the change, and a musical score featuring full symphony orchestra conducted by yours truly, is packed with each upgrade kit (small extra charge, of course).

[mjosef]

Mhnnn...the RM1s has a 10" p/r, would this be superior in this model also?

[Brax]

I was thinking along these same lines, but I was wondering what it would sound like if you replaced the two 6-1/2" PRs with drivers rather than plugging them.

[cliffy]

To answer cliffy, the single 10" PR vents the two active 6.5" more efficiently than the dual 6"PR vented the two active 6.5" PLUS the active 10".  It's a case of less equals more.

Thank you Brian.  I understand now.

[John Casler]

We will be making the "show" pair of RM30 Series II ($3500 retail) available to anyone to be taken home after the show.  Please check with me for "special" show pricing.

They will be available in one of three versions:

ANALOG OXO = Outboard X-OVER ($450 retail) can be cap upgraded

DIGITAL OXO = Set up and tuned for the speaker and your room($900 retail)

MODDED DIGITAL OXO = ($1600 retail)

So make sure and bring your pick up or SUV on Sunday.

[Brian Cheney]

Well, I have tuned and tweaked the Show pair of Series II RM30 to the best of my ability, and  marvel at its performance.  I don't think there will be  better sound anywhere else at the Newport Hilton, just perhaps a lot of  more expensive gear. 

But that's the whole point.  High end should be affordable, or it does no one any good.  How many billionaire music lovers do you know?  In 35 years I have yet to meet a one.  Manufacturing very expensive gear to meet a demand that doesn't exist just exhausts your resources and makes audiophiles unhappy.  It's not a syndrome I want to perpetuate.

[John Casler]

We will be making the "show" pair of RM30 Series II ($3500 retail) available to anyone to be taken home after the show.  Please check with me for "special" show pricing.

They will be available in one of three versions:

ANALOG OXO = Outboard X-OVER ($450 retail) can be cap upgraded

DIGITAL OXO = Set up and tuned for the speaker and your room($900 retail)

MODDED DIGITAL OXO = ($1600 retail)

So make sure and bring your pick up or SUV on Sunday.

Brian has informed me that the Show Pair are Piano Black, so these will not only sound like $15k speakers, they will look like it too.

[Brian Cheney]

To answer Brax, substituting active drivers for the PR's (which are the system vents) would drastically raise fundamental resonance frequency of the speaker and lower its Qt.  The result is weaker bass, not stronger. 

[Brax]

Brian,

I was talking about replacing the 10" woofer with the PR as your new upgrade suggests, but instead of plugging the 6-1/2" PR holes, adding 2 more active drivers for a total of four 6-1/2" woofers in a double parallel wiring setup creating an 8 ohm load. Just a thought since I planned on upgrading to the 40 oz mega woofers in my RM30s leaving me with a set of extra 28oz woofers.

I do have to wait until the funds build back up a little, since I just bought another set of RM2's to fill out my 7.1 system. Looking forward to the feedback from owners that do this latest upgrade.

[BobRex]

To answer Bob, in the old circuit the two 6.5" were in series with each other, and the 10" was in parallel with them for a 5.3 Ohm nominal load.

When rewired, the 10" active is gone, and the two 6.5" are in parallel with each other for a nominal  4 Ohm load   Since the 6.5" each have 1.5" 4 layer voicecoils and a metal phase plug, they still have about 400W of power handling with excellent extension and dynamics.

A DVD showing installation steps, theoretical underpinnings of the change, and a musical score featuring full symphony orchestra conducted by yours truly, is packed with each upgrade kit (small extra charge, of course).

OK, I got it now.... 

BTW - regarding first octave response, using the Rives test CD and my trusty Rat Shack meter (analog version, of course!), I can measure (and hear/ feel, for that matter) 25Hz.  No, it's not flat, maybe 6dB down from memory, but that's damned good, all things considered.

[John Casler]

Hi Bob,

Such is the ability of some of B's designs.  The 6" MegaWoofer with 40oz magnet is one of the wonders of the Audio world. I could almost use it to pump my biceps

I remember measuring "some" 25hz response from a pair of 626R's!!!   in my room.

I also remember in Vegas a few years ago with the RM30C's.  We had a LARGER in the room (at Alexis Park) but we went part of the morning one day with forgetting to turn it on and not missing "anything" in the bass region.

While we often mention that the RM30 has no 1st octave bass, that doesn't mean in the right room and on most material it will drop like a stone below 30.  If your room and listening geometry is supportive, it can be quite satisfying.

[DFaulds]

Mhnnn...the RM1s has a 10" p/r, would this be superior in this model also?

Is the PR for the RM1 10" or 8"?  I have a pair, but they've been sitting in the basement, unused, for a while so I don't recall.  Is there an upgrade for the RM1 PR?

[Brian Cheney]

The RM 1 uses a 10" PR, but there is no upgrade available for it.

[Russtafarian]

Brian & John, I'll see you tomorrow.

[Brian Cheney]

Be good to meet you.

[LHF63]

If you have the RM30C with a plugged side-firing 10" cutout, no xover change is necessary.  Knock out the plug for the 10", install the PR, remove the 6" PR's and plug their cutouts, and install the CDWG's.

If you have the RM30M you must remove the 10" active, shorten the wiring (from a series/parallel to straight parallel connections for the remaining active 6.5"), add 10uF to the mid crossover ($12 to $45 per side depending on cap quality), install the 10" PR, remove the 6" PR's and plug their cutouts, install the CDWG's, and you're done.

If you have the RM30C with no side cutouts, surgery to the cabinets will be necessary.  Not pleasant, but doable, since the material is only 3/4" MDF.

So, I realize I'm late to this thread, but what does the future hold for the RM30C?  Still available as a Gen II with the new CDWGs, or does it just go away?

Lou

[John Casler]

So, I realize I'm late to this thread, but what does the future hold for the RM30C?  Still available as a Gen II with the new CDWGs, or does it just go away?

Lou

It is still available as a choice.

Actually it is STILL a good choice for those who intend to use a SUB in their systems, especially for HT use.

Also some placement issues might make it the more attractive option.

That is, now you have a choice between the following:

RM30c with dual 6.5" megas and PR's
RM30m with dual 6.5" megas & PR's, and the "active" 10"

and the new

RM30 II with dual 6.5" megas and the "passive" 10".

The actual issue will be between the "m" and "Series II", and which will be best for an application. 

[John Casler]

RM30 II with dual 6.5" megas & 10" PR (no 6.5" PRs) correct?

That is correct; my copy and paste added a couple PR's.  I will edit the original post