[llreyes022]

hi there ! im planning a music/movie room, the room dimensions are 16,5ft wide x 19,6ft depth
i would like buy & build this gear
x-statik speaker
x-voce center channel
a/v-1rs as surrounds speakers
2x dual servo subs h frame (sandbox enclosure)
for movies sub, two klipsch r112sw

all look right, but im having Doubts with the free space available for the x-statik speakers, i could use a small screen but the other model is "too small"

could be this enough space? pd: its a retractable screen for listening music with out it

dimensions are in milimiters





listening setup


thanks for the help! i hear any recomendation

[hawkeyejw]

Looks reasonable to me. One thing I can’t tell looking on my phone is how much space you’ve left behind the X-voce. Ideally you’ll have as much space from the baffle to the front wall on your Voce as your Statiks. In my room the Voce is not spaced as far from the wall as is ideal, and I can hear the slight impact. That’s not to say it sounds bad - it still is exceptionally clear and better than any center I’ve owned, but it would be even better spaced further from the wall. It looks like you have the space in your room to do so, which is good.

I think what you have planned will sound great.

[Jmitchell3]

Looks great!

[Dynky]

Hanging the screen as pictured here - in line with the front of the main speakers - seems far from ideal to me.
I'd hang it against the front wall, that way your mains don't reflect off it.
Although it may not appear to do much sound-wise, such a screen will certainly have its effect on sound radiated from the mains, and they'll sound as if they're next to a reflective surface, which a screen simply is.

If you really want the screen in that position, you could choose an acoustically transparent one.  Those are quite a bit more expensive, but then you could even position the mains behind it and be much less constrained in their positioning.  Heck, you could even go for a wider screen if its AT 

[llreyes022]

Looks reasonable to me. One thing I can’t tell looking on my phone is how much space you’ve left behind the X-voce. Ideally you’ll have as much space from the baffle to the front wall on your Voce as your Statiks. In my room the Voce is not spaced as far from the wall as is ideal, and I can hear the slight impact. That’s not to say it sounds bad - it still is exceptionally clear and better than any center I’ve owned, but it would be even better spaced further from the wall. It looks like you have the space in your room to do so, which is good.

I think what you have planned will sound great.

yes, they are all in the same distance.

Hanging the screen as pictured here - in line with the front of the main speakers - seems far from ideal to me.
I'd hang it against the front wall, that way your mains don't reflect off it.
Although it may not appear to do much sound-wise, such a screen will certainly have its effect on sound radiated from the mains, and they'll sound as if they're next to a reflective surface, which a screen simply is.

If you really want the screen in that position, you could choose an acoustically transparent one.  Those are quite a bit more expensive, but then you could even position the mains behind it and be much less constrained in their positioning.  Heck, you could even go for a wider screen if its AT 

I think the same, the screen create a lot of reflections of sound waves, I needed a second opinion to verify my fears, I will make an effort and buy an acoustic screen.

If I hang the screen on the wall it would limit the viewing angle a lot because the speakers would be in the line of vision. thanks for the advice

Looks great!

thank you!!

[mcallister]

Since your building a lot of the speakers I’d get a couple GSG Marty flat packs for subs.

[mlundy57]

Personally, I'd use the GR sealed servo sub kit 2 for HT subs http://gr-research.com/servosubkit2.aspx  unless you want more than one 12" driver per cabinet. If that's the case, I'd look at the other sealed or ported HT subwoofers Rythmik has. http://www.rythmikaudio.com/

I have both a Rythmik F12 and a GR sub kit 2 built with the sandbox enclosure http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/sandbox.pdf

[WGH]

What is your goal for the home theater? Based on your drawings the speaker layout is neither fish or fowl, I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish.

The current setup is close to a Dolby Pro Logic layout from 2000, so unless you are going for a vintage sound design with a Hi-Fi VCR I would suggest a major re-think regarding speaker layout.

Since you are building a home theater there is no reason not to do it right. You are going to need more speakers or at least the wiring pre-installed to add them later. I suggest reading up on Dolby Atmos because even though your current receiver/processor may not have it, your next one will. Dolby Atmos is an object based surround capable of placing objects anywhere in 3-D space. In order to do this requires 2 side surround speakers at ear level on each side of the couch and 2 rear surround speakers at ear level (more or less) behind the couch on the wall. The Atmos speakers always sound best mounted in the ceiling (4 preferred), if that is not possible then the a/v-1rs will work.

The 4 pillars supporting the a/v-1rs should be placed on the side walls, maybe about 3' in front and behind the couch. The side and rear surround speakers can be installed in the wall or stand mount A/V-1 or X-LS Encore speakers. The surround and Atmos speakers are rolled off at 80 Hz - 100 Hz so the design doesn't need to go deep. The AV receiver steers all .1/LFE (low frequency effects) bass to the sub. Get a GR Research servo sub amp that has the .1/LFE input so you can use the system for both music and home theater.

What you designed will sound amazing but in a couple of years you will say "what was I thinking" because when you read reviews of all the amazing 3-D sound effects in new movies all you hear is a big sound bubble behind you with no easy option to upgrade.

[llreyes022]

What is your goal for the home theater? Based on your drawings the speaker layout is neither fish or fowl, I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish.

The current setup is close to a Dolby Pro Logic layout from 2000, so unless you are going for a vintage sound design with a Hi-Fi VCR I would suggest a major re-think regarding speaker layout.

Since you are building a home theater there is no reason not to do it right. You are going to need more speakers or at least the wiring pre-installed to add them later. I suggest reading up on Dolby Atmos because even though your current receiver/processor may not have it, your next one will. Dolby Atmos is an object based surround capable of placing objects anywhere in 3-D space. In order to do this requires 2 side surround speakers at ear level on each side of the couch and 2 rear surround speakers at ear level (more or less) behind the couch on the wall. The Atmos speakers always sound best mounted in the ceiling (4 preferred), if that is not possible then the a/v-1rs will work.

The 4 pillars supporting the a/v-1rs should be placed on the side walls, maybe about 3' in front and behind the couch. The side and rear surround speakers can be installed in the wall or stand mount A/V-1 or X-LS Encore speakers. The surround and Atmos speakers are rolled off at 80 Hz - 100 Hz so the design doesn't need to go deep. The AV receiver steers all .1/LFE (low frequency effects) bass to the sub. Get a GR Research servo sub amp that has the .1/LFE input so you can use the system for both music and home theater.

What you designed will sound amazing but in a couple of years you will say "what was I thinking" because when you read reviews of all the amazing 3-D sound effects in new movies all you hear is a big sound bubble behind you with no easy option to upgrade.

I dont understand your point, im building a 7.2.4 system, im using the a/v-1rs as surround speakers ( Side and back surrounds) and X-voce as center channel, Speakers atmos are not in the pictures (JVC RC80i) , i locate the surround speaker by dolby atmos guides, but that is not a big problem, they can be relocate easily. The servo sub is ony for music, is a dual purpose room, for movies i have two klispch r112SW not great, but do the joob. Av receiver is a x3600 of my last system, maybe could upgrade to the new 3700. 
But let met know if im wrong with that

Personally, I'd use the GR sealed servo sub kit 2 for HT subs http://gr-research.com/servosubkit2.aspx  unless you want more than one 12" driver per cabinet. If that's the case, I'd look at the other sealed or ported HT subwoofers Rythmik has. http://www.rythmikaudio.com/

I have both a Rythmik F12 and a GR sub kit 2 built with the sandbox enclosure http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/sandbox.pdf

im planing use the servo sub kit 4 only for music, for movies i have a pair of klispch R122SW.

[WGH]

Thanks for the system update, I was confused because the Atmos speakers were not in the drawings. All the Dolby Atmos layouts I have seen have the surrounds placed around ear level, it they have to be located higher like your drawing shows then they are pointing down toward the audience.



Dipole surround speakers are used if the speaker locations are close to your ears, as in a narrow room. Otherwise regular speakers are recommended.

Atmos ceiling speakers have a wide dispersion design. The speakers must have consistent coverage out to ~70 degrees off axis. If your ceiling is less than 8' you will get a narrower dispersion, beaming will happen and you will only hear the speaker closest to you, which can be annoying. Dipole Atmos speakers work very well with low ceilings, that is what I use in my 7.1.4 setup. Great coverage with zero beaming.

"The direct-radiating versus dipolar surrounds question is one we’ve tackled before, but it comes up so often that it’s worth revisiting. Dolby recommends using direct-radiating surround speakers positioned at roughly ear-height for Atmos. Why? Object-based surround technology allows for a more spatially precise rendering of soundtrack information than was possible with channel-based formats, and Dolby maintains that direct-radiating speakers are best equipped to deliver it, both in cinemas and at home."
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/can-i-use-dipole-speakers-714-atmos-setup

If you have the ceiling height, the collective intelligence of the internet agrees the RSL C34E ceiling speaker is one of the best available.
https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/

[WC]

If you running Atmos speakers there needs to be some separation between the surrounds and the atmos speakers. If the surrounds and surround backs are located up high on the wall there will not be enough separation between the atmos speakers and the surrounds. Not sure you will notice all that much of an atmos effect from ceiling speakers.

[llreyes022]

Thanks for the system update, I was confused because the Atmos speakers were not in the drawings. All the Dolby Atmos layouts I have seen have the surrounds placed around ear level, it they have to be located higher like your drawing shows then they are pointing down toward the audience.



Dipole surround speakers are used if the speaker locations are close to your ears, as in a narrow room. Otherwise regular speakers are recommended.

Atmos ceiling speakers have a wide dispersion design. The speakers must have consistent coverage out to ~70 degrees off axis. If your ceiling is less than 8' you will get a narrower dispersion, beaming will happen and you will only hear the speaker closest to you, which can be annoying. Dipole Atmos speakers work very well with low ceilings, that is what I use in my 7.1.4 setup. Great coverage with zero beaming.

"The direct-radiating versus dipolar surrounds question is one we’ve tackled before, but it comes up so often that it’s worth revisiting. Dolby recommends using direct-radiating surround speakers positioned at roughly ear-height for Atmos. Why? Object-based surround technology allows for a more spatially precise rendering of soundtrack information than was possible with channel-based formats, and Dolby maintains that direct-radiating speakers are best equipped to deliver it, both in cinemas and at home."
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/can-i-use-dipole-speakers-714-atmos-setup

If you have the ceiling height, the collective intelligence of the internet agrees the RSL C34E ceiling speaker is one of the best available.
https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/

my ceiling is 8 feet high, yes the usual surround heigh is around ear level, but in the recommendations of the a/v-1rs say

"They are to be mounted on the wall and can be mounted on rear or side walls. Optimal distance from the ceiling is 16" from the ceiling to the center of the tweeter. They can also be mounted as close as two feet from a corner without any adverse effect on the response. They can even be mounted on the ceiling facing the rear wall and works just as well that way."
http://gr-research.com/av-1rs.aspx check his web

i dont how well that can work, but i want to try 
my backup plan is something like this built in the columns
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speaker-kits/home-theater-series/home-theater/ht-8-kit.html

[WGH]

I read all about the a/v-1rs before posting because I was unfamiliar with the design and Danny makes good stuff. You are correct, the a/v-1rs will sound great following the recommendations, they just won't work great for Atmos located up close to the ceiling.

I would guess the a/v-1rs were conceived and designed before Atmos object-based sound technology. Back in the Dolby Pro Logic days the high, close to ceiling location worked well. The Pro Logic decoder/processor "unfolds" the sound into the original 4.0 surround—left and right, center, and a single limited frequency-range mono rear channel. The 2 rear speakers added wide diffuse ambience without any location data, exactly the same as your current speaker layout.

Dolby Pro Logic II appeared in 2000 and introduced 5.1 sound but it was not object-based.

Dolby Surround was introduced in 2014 and was a complete replacement for Pro Logic, starting the transition to true object-based surround sound and the Dolby specification for 5 or 7 speakers at ear level.

Transformers: Age of Extinction was released on September 30, 2014 on Blu-ray Atmos and completed the transition to true object-based surround sound.

The A/V-1RS was introduced in May 2005, back in the Dolby Pro Logic stone age and worked perfectly well for that format. The A/V-1RS could be incorporated into an interesting 11.2.4 setup.

[llreyes022]

I read all about the a/v-1rs before posting because I was unfamiliar with the design and Danny makes good stuff. You are correct, the a/v-1rs will sound great following the recommendations, they just won't work great for Atmos located up close to the ceiling.

I would guess the a/v-1rs were conceived and designed before Atmos object-based sound technology. Back in the Dolby Pro Logic days the high, close to ceiling location worked well. The Pro Logic decoder/processor "unfolds" the sound into the original 4.0 surround—left and right, center, and a single limited frequency-range mono rear channel. The 2 rear speakers added wide diffuse ambience without any location data, exactly the same as your current speaker layout.

Dolby Pro Logic II appeared in 2000 and introduced 5.1 sound but it was not object-based.

Dolby Surround was introduced in 2014 and was a complete replacement for Pro Logic, starting the transition to true object-based surround sound and the Dolby specification for 5 or 7 speakers at ear level.

Transformers: Age of Extinction was released on September 30, 2014 on Blu-ray Atmos and completed the transition to true object-based surround sound.

The A/V-1RS was introduced in May 2005, back in the Dolby Pro Logic stone age and worked perfectly well for that format. The A/V-1RS could be incorporated into an interesting 11.2.4 setup.

i was thinking about that, about change the surround 
the x-ls encore could be a great choice, because they share the same driver (M-165 woofer) , i dont are in love with bookshelf in the wall, but thats the only way. i dont know if can i change the dimensions keeping the same box volume and put they in the columns like this

[WGH]

the x-ls encore could be a great choice, because they share the same driver (M-165 woofer) , i dont are in love with bookshelf in the wall, but thats the only way. i dont know if can i change the dimensions keeping the same box volume and put they in the columns like this

I would contact Danny or start a new thread about making an in-wall version of the X-LS Encore. The X-LS can be built as either a bookshelf or a tower speaker so it looks like cabinet volume is flexible. Danny could tell you the best location for the front port or if it can be eliminated since the surrounds are rolled off at 80 Hz - 100 Hz by the AV receiver.

[llreyes022]

I would contact Danny or start a new thread about making an in-wall version of the X-LS Encore. The X-LS can be built as either a bookshelf or a tower speaker so it looks like cabinet volume is flexible. Danny could tell you the best location for the front port or if it can be eliminated since the surrounds are rolled off at 80 Hz - 100 Hz by the AV receiver.

Its done, he told me to leave the A/V1RS, my ceiling is high, dont have problems with the atmos speakers. Thats a good news, Only waiting for get the kits and start the building. Thanks for all your advices

[Danny Richie]

In general it is hard to incorporate the new Atmos format into an average room. The room really needs to be designed for that type of a system.

And ideally you want to be as far away from surround speakers as you are from your front speakers. Ceilings need to be high as well.

The biggest mistake I see are guys trying at add all the Atmos speakers to a average sized or small sized room, and they wind up with surround speakers and ceiling speakers that are way too close to the listeners. It can really blow the effect that is trying to be accomplished. The posted illustration perfectly illustrates this problem. The person sitting on the left side or right side of the couch has a surround speaker two feet from their head and aimed right at them. That is what you want to avoid at all cost.

The A/V-1RS models are ideal for creating that added distance and space that will make the sound field sound big and less localized.

Another problem with a lot of those systems is the use of dipole surrounds, especially located forward of the listeners. These scatter sound in an uneven pattern that never resembles the input signal. This can really mess things up. And again the A/V-1RS is the solution to the problem created by dipole surrounds.

[mlundy57]

The A/V-1RS is one of those speakers you have to listen to to appreciate. Trying to understand it theoretically doesn't work well. The sound field it projects is different from all the other types of surround speakers I've used before which include ported, sealed, and dipole with offset angles. I'm using the A/V-1RS with my NX-Otica MTM/dual H-frame servo subs in a small room. The drivers couldn't be more different between the mains and surrounds but the A/V-1RS works extremely well. Conventional wisdom doesn't work with these surrounds so don't discount them outright. You'll be glad you didn't.

Mike

[WC]

I don't think anyone is discounting the use of the A/V-1RS speakers for use in a 5.1 or 7.1 system. The issue comes in when adding atmos speakers. You can try them, but I just don't think they are going to work well with the Atmos speakers. Ideally with Atmos, you want to create a soundfield at two different heights. Your 5 or 7 base speakers should be at a similar height to allow some separation between them and your atmos ceiling layer. If you mount your surrounds high up on the wall, this impacts the separation of the two sound layers. My ceiling heights are less than 8 ft, so after some research I decided not to bother with Atmos at this time. I am fine with 5.2 surround system.

[Early B.]

In general it is hard to incorporate the new Atmos format into an average room. The room really needs to be designed for that type of a system.

My advice to the OP is to keep it simple. Consider a 5.2 system with two pair of X-Statiks for the front and rear. Whoa!

The mistake many people make in designing an HT system is buying 7 or 9 or even 11 cheap speakers when the same budget can buy 5 higher quality and better sounding speakers. The point is -- focus first on the foundation of your HT system (front, center channel, rear and subs). Buy and build the best speakers within your budget. You can always add speakers later on if you choose to do so.