AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Discless Circle => Topic started by: rollo on 14 Sep 2020, 08:36 pm
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So which sounds better to you and what about it that sounds better. Lots of different opinions on this matter. I use iPeng not Roon. IMHO Roon mucks up the sound.
charles
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When it comes to sound quality, I don't think I've heard anyone say they prefer Tidal of Qobuz. I think I hear Qobuz regularly referenced as the best sound streaming platform. But people seem stick with Tidal for the catalog and the convince.
I haven't done any A/B testing with them, and honestly I haven't personally given Qobuz a good look. When it first launched the catalog had too many gaps for me, so I passed and went with Tidal. That may be different now, but I just haven't felt the need to look elsewhere since I've had Tidal.
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A friend came over recently for a listening session and fired up his Qobuz through my roon account for a side by side listen, the Qobus was hands down the better sounding service in my system in several direct comparisons, I was stunned actually. The sound was simply fully, richer and yet more fleshed out by comparison, the issue that I have is that I live in Canada and it's a bit of a challenge to get Qobuz here, but i'm trying!!
Don
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quboz hi-res sounds more 'solid', has better midrange and bass foundation fullness as expressed above
tidal masters sounds lil more processed, little more phase-y, treble seems more emphasized
both are very good, and miles better than spotify's best, but the difference is noticeable on a-b back to back, back n forth
tidal mqa is highly variable by recording... some recordings sound more analog (more relaxed presentation without loss of detail) others not much difference at all -- when there is mqa and nonmqa versions both available to allow a-b comparison
this is what i hear on my system, my ears, ymmv
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Thanks Guys my thoughts as well. I prefer Qobuz.
charles
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Qobuz sounds best to me, using Euphony Stylus instead of Roon with Euphony kicking Roon to the curb.
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I had Tidal with Roon core. Dumped server and back to CDs and vinyl. Never tried Qobuz.
Don P
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I had Tidal with Roon core. Dumped server and back to CDs and vinyl. Never tried Qobuz.
Don P
Don baby I am with you on CDs. That is my main source. Streaming is well streaming. Not equal to a dedicated transport and DAC combo.
charles
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When it comes to sound quality, I don't think I've heard anyone say they prefer Tidal of Qobuz.
I prefer Tidal sound quality to Qobuz. I don't think Qobuz is better in presentation, just different. To me it sounded slightly rolled off or muted and not as dynamic.
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As long as it's a free for all...
I haven't tried Qobuz. I've used TIDAL for 3(?) years and like it a lot. I own maybe 370 CDs, so there's little reason for me to invest in an expensive CDT. I have an incredible tube NOS DAC, a great NOS DAC, and an inexpensive Sabaj DAC to choose from. 8)
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Don baby I am with you on CDs. That is my main source. Streaming is well streaming. Not equal to a dedicated transport and DAC combo.
charles
Charles, CEC transport?
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I tried both Tidal and Qobuz and greatly prefer Qobuz. Note I mostly listen to classical and Qobuz has a MUCH larger library of classical than Tidal, so that's nice too :)
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Roon + Tidal
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Charles, CEC transport?
No. I have a CEC 01 but prefer the Aqua Acoustic La Diva.
charles
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As long as it's a free for all...
I haven't tried Qobuz. I've used TIDAL for 3(?) years and like it a lot. I own maybe 370 CDs, so there's little reason for me to invest in an expensive CDT. I have an incredible tube NOS DAC, a great NOS DAC, and an inexpensive Sabaj DAC to choose from. 8)
I use streaming for hearing new music and native DSD only. Everything else using a dedicated transport. Roon as well does not have the best sound. iPeng remote for me. Until one actually does a direct comparison one will not know there is a difference.
charles
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I subscribe to both, since my streamer fully decodes MQA. But to be totally honest, I can't say I can tell a consistent difference between the highest resolution content of the two services, at least on my system (Node 2i, PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell, PS Audio M700 monoblocks, Magnepan .7s and Hsu sub). And on those few things on which I think I hear a difference, it's supremely subtle, and not the kind of thing that would make me say one is better or worse than the other.
For now I'm keeping both, since their catalogs are somewhat complementary, with more classical content on Qobuz and more popular content on Tidal (at least among those artists I have an interest in). If something happened and I had to lose one, I'd probably dump Tidal and keep Qobuz, only because I find myself exploring unknown classical more often than I explore unknown rock/pop/jazz/folk.
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I have compared them, I prefer Qobuz for equivalent bitrates, etc. Setup is Roon, HQPlayer, NUC Streamer, Holo May KTE, Music First line stage, self made 300B monoblocks, Avantgarde Duo Omega G2s in treated room with good dimensions and acoustics.
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Have any of you guys tried Audirvana with qobuz and/or Tidal? If not I highly recommend it because it makes the streaming sound more like ripped cds. I just bought the software and I'm really enjoying it.
BTW I'm not hijacking this thread.
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I use both, Qobuz for the overall quality. But they both work.
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The difference is simple. Tidal has a volume setting that actually allows gain to be applied to the stream. Therefore, it will clip down stream, like in your DAC. Qobuz volume control maxes out at unity gain so it doesn't have this problem- but most streaming services (Including Tidal) do. I arrived at this discovery using a variety of audio utilities and source material such as test tones.
Clipping is bad and will sound bad. Eliminate it and the sound is just like from a cd- and just like every other service.. All the services get their source material from the same place.
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Db,
Should you make sure the Tidal volume is maxed out then or where do you set it?
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I have Qobuz and really enjoy it. Before the trial period ended, I compared a number of their tracks back-to-back against the same material from my collection (over 5,000 albums) and found no difference. If nothing else, Qobuz is a great way to explore new releases and artists/albums you haven't heard before. And, as someone else has already noted, if you like classical, Qobuz is a fantastic resource.
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I just switched to Qobuz after 4 years on Tidal. I was very glad to make the switch.
I used this free service (https://www.tunemymusic.com/TIDAL-to-File.php) to automatically transfer all my saved albums, artists, playlists, etc over to Qobuz with just a couple clicks. It worked perfectly. There was one obscure album that was on Tidal but not Qobuz (nor any other streaming services.) The final summary page clearly displayed this discrepancy.
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I just switched to Qobuz after 4 years on Tidal. I was very glad to make the switch.
I used this free service (https://www.tunemymusic.com/TIDAL-to-File.php) to automatically transfer all my saved albums, artists, playlists, etc over to Qobuz with just a couple clicks. It worked perfectly. There was one obscure album that was on Tidal but not Qobuz (nor any other streaming services.) The final summary page clearly displayed this discrepancy.
Good to know about this service. I still have both, but I find the curating of Qobuz much more to my liking, so perhaps it's time for a trial transfer to see what I might be missing. These days pretty much everything I find in discovery mode exists on both platforms, so I don't need Tidal in that case. I don't personally care about MQA in Tidal either.
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Good to know about this service. I still have both, but I find the curating of Qobuz much more to my liking, so perhaps it's time for a trial transfer to see what I might be missing. These days pretty much everything I find in discovery mode exists on both platforms, so I don't need Tidal in that case. I don't personally care about MQA in Tidal either.
Qobuz recommends this (https://soundiiz.com/) service as an FYI.
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Qobuz recommends this (https://soundiiz.com/) service as an FYI.
8)
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Qobuz recommends this (https://soundiiz.com/) service as an FYI.
Yes, thanks Jason! I saw that one first. Soundiiz requires creating an account to use the free plan. Tunemymusic.com doesn't require an account. I imagine the account would allow some nice features, like save your logins, schedule auto syncs, etc, but I just needed a one time data transfer. I was pleasantly surprised how well it worked.
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No takers on another forum from the following post. The comparison was specifically with Amazon HD, but I noted differences versus Tidal as well.
" ... got a Bluesound Node 2i a few weeks ago. I'm going Bluesound -> DAC via coax. Though unexpected, I tried out Qobuz and IMHO, it was clearly better sounding than Amazon HD on both CD quality and Hi-Rez.
Given that both services stream 16-bit/44.1 Khz & 24-bit 96Khz/ 192Khz, and over the same system downstream ... I don't understand how this is happens. But it does. [Maybe somebody can explain that in laymen's terms]"
The difference is simple. Tidal has a volume setting that actually allows gain to be applied to the stream. Therefore, it will clip down stream, like in your DAC. Qobuz volume control maxes out at unity gain so it doesn't have this problem- but most streaming services (Including Tidal) do. I arrived at this discovery using a variety of audio utilities and source material such as test tones.
Clipping is bad and will sound bad. Eliminate it and the sound is just like from a cd- and just like every other service.. All the services get their source material from the same place.
dB Cooper, thanks so much for your explanation. Different services varying in SQ, just did not make sense to me. Appreciate your insight.
FWIW, got a couple more weeks trials left with Tidal & Qobuz. Tidal MQA produces best overall sound in Hi-Rez category. Qobuz is clear winner for CD quality stuff; and given Tidal's low ratio of MQA to CD catalog, plus it's higher monthly cost, I'll be sticking with Qobuz.
Happy Listening!
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Hi Guys,
Its an easy question for me 'hands down' tidal is the way to go. One simple reason is because Qobuz isn't available in Australia lol.
Cheers Rod
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No takers on another forum from the following post. The comparison was specifically with Amazon HD, but I noted differences versus Tidal as well.
" ... got a Bluesound Node 2i a few weeks ago. I'm going Bluesound -> DAC via coax. Though unexpected, I tried out Qobuz and IMHO, it was clearly better sounding than Amazon HD on both CD quality and Hi-Rez.
Given that both services stream 16-bit/44.1 Khz & 24-bit 96Khz/ 192Khz, and over the same system downstream ... I don't understand how this is happens. But it does. [Maybe somebody can explain that in laymen's terms]"
dB Cooper, thanks so much for your explanation. Different services varying in SQ, just did not make sense to me. Appreciate your insight.
FWIW, got a couple more weeks trials left with Tidal & Qobuz. Tidal MQA produces best overall sound in Hi-Rez category. Qobuz is clear winner for CD quality stuff; and given Tidal's low ratio of MQA to CD catalog, plus it's higher monthly cost, I'll be sticking with Qobuz.
Happy Listening!
Apparently, the volume control issue isn't the only thing affecting the sound quality of different services. This is from Gordon Rankin (about a year ago on AA):
"Anyway, Amazon's service is not really that great at this time. I am not sure if it will be upgraded and I have already seen some changes since day 1. But here are the two big problems.
a) The(y) use an adaptive streaming method which means that first off the music is not bit true and the quality varies depending on your link speed and the servers ability to send content.
b) They resample all incoming music to the highest sample rate selected. They kind of assume you have the default rate at the max... if you don't they complain and tell you to change it. They don't use Exclusive mode or give you the option for that so it's really so so sonically."
According to posters on AS, although Amazon does now have Exclusive mode, it doesn't work. Anyway the first issue remains and there may be other issues around the how music is streamed by the various services.
I never tried Tidal but Qobuz was clearly superior in sound to Amazon when I tried both at the beginning of this year.
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Db,
Should you make sure the Tidal volume is maxed out then or where do you set it?
No!! Really loud peaks will send hard clipping downstream into your DAC if the slider is maxed (unless they've fixed it). If you are on Tidal, they have some sound test albums (search 'Test Tones')with calibrated tones on them which can be used. On Mac I use a utility called SoundSource which has tiny little meters that are not useful for much- but they do change color to red when the input signal clips. I also have plugin called MyMeter2 which helps. Only prob is these are both Mac-only apps but there is doubtless some equivalent if you're on Windows, which you probably are.
Main thing is, you want the input signal as loud as it can be without clipping on a full scale peak.You'll need to find a way to meter the output of Tidal playing the test tone and adjust the meter (Set to 'Peak') to read the same as the spec on the test tone. This turned out to be about 2/3-3/4 way on the Tidal slider. Anything higher and you run the risk of clipping.
BTW recording engineer and college professor Mark Waldrep confirmed to me that digital volume controls reduce resolution as they get lowe and lower below unity. So after you get your Tidal set, don't change it. Do all volume setting downstream or preferably in the analog stage. Hope all this verbiage helps.
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Apparently, the volume control issue isn't the only thing affecting the sound quality of different services. This is from Gordon Rankin (about a year ago on AA):
"Anyway, Amazon's service is not really that great at this time. I am not sure if it will be upgraded and I have already seen some changes since day 1. But here are the two big problems.
a) The(y) use an adaptive streaming method which means that first off the music is not bit true and the quality varies depending on your link speed and the servers ability to send content.
b) They resample all incoming music to the highest sample rate selected. They kind of assume you have the default rate at the max... if you don't they complain and tell you to change it. They don't use Exclusive mode or give you the option for that so it's really so so sonically."
According to posters on AS, although Amazon does now have Exclusive mode, it doesn't work. Anyway the first issue remains and there may be other issues around the how music is streamed by the various services.
I never tried Tidal but Qobuz was clearly superior in sound to Amazon when I tried both at the beginning of this year.
Amazon: Promising but doesn't directly control the DAC settings. Pls, Bezos has enough mony.
Qobuz: Good selection but would like a 'dark mode' on the computer; the stark white isn't visually nice.
Tidal: Their search leaves a lot to be desired- it could'nt find 'Simon and Garfunkel' until I searched 'Simon & Garfunkel' for example. That's lame. And they sent me a birthday card that started out 'Hey Shawty' with a bunch of rap in a playlist. I'm a middle aged white guy so I'm not used to being called 'Shawty'. Plus its a matter of $- they dont seem to do much to justify the higher price.
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I played Qobuz through Audirvana, which does have a dark mode.
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Did a trial of Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon & Spotify (just because I wanted to test lol)
Qobuz via Audirvana was the best SQ in my system. Tried Roon, and still the Audirvana/Qobuz combination sounded better.
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tidal and qobuz with files 16 / 44.1 are practically identical.
qobuz with HR files is a bit better than tidal's MQA files .....
.... my personal opinion.