John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)

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jonpol

I've had my new speakers for a few weeks, and it seemed like it was a good time to write up a review.  Here is the official picture that Jim took and sent me of the entire set:



I got a pair of SongTower RTs, a SongCenter RT, a pair of SongBirds, and a SongSub.  They are done in the standard black satin finish, with pao ferro rosewood accents.  I really like plain black, but I was hesitant about having the opportunity to have a custom-built speaker and not take advantage of it.  I thought about some different ideas based on others' Salk speakers that I had seen online and emailed Jim to get an estimate of what the different customizations might cost.  I was very pleasantly surprised how reasonably priced they all were, and decided I needed to do something different than plain black, and it was then just a matter of deciding what.  The final inspiration came from my piano, which is mostly black but with rosewood accents:



I was pretty happy with the design, but after I ordered it I have seen at least two other people who came up with the same idea before I did, so it turns out to be not as unique as I had thought :green:.  I did have the rosewood dyed a pretty deep red, though, and I also asked Jim if he could make the nameplates gold rather than the standard silver (there's something about the black with red and gold that I really like), which is something I don't think I've seen done before.  Here's the picture Jim took of just the SongTowers:



The new speakers replaced a set of Polks that I had had for a number of years.  I was introduced to the pleasure of good speakers by my dad when I was fairly young when he took me with him as he was searching for a set of his own.  He had a few CDs that he always brought with him, and encouraged me to bring some of my own so I could give input.  It was only a few years later when I decided I wanted some "real" speakers of my own, and we repeated the same ritual (I have never forgotten the song "There's a Kind of Hush" by the Carpenters that he used, and I made sure to try it out on my new Salks in his honor  :)).  I ended up with some Polk bookshelf speakers that I really liked, and upgraded them a few times over the years with other Polks, and eventually filled in the complete 5.1 set.

Last year a friend of mine at work was finishing his basement, and the subject of speakers for his home theater came up.  I told him that I was by no means an audiophile, but that I certainly appreciated a good speaker, and gave him some advice with the caveat that I hadn't gone speaker shopping for years and didn't know what was out there.  He didn't have to do much convincing for me to agree to go with him to listen to some different options and help him decide.  It was with quite a bit of sadness that I soon realized that basically all of the places that my dad and I had visited were out of business, and that Best Buy and a local furniture store were our best bets for hearing anything.  I had been kind of apologetic about my Polks, saying that they were good but that I knew there were much better speakers out there, but of the ones we listened to I actually still liked the Polk sound a lot (and, in fact, my coworker actually ended up getting some also).

Going with him made me catch the speaker bug again, though, and I started thinking that it was probably time to upgrade.  One of the speaker brands my dad and I had listened to that he almost got was B&W, and the local store where we had listened to them was one of the few audio stores in the Salt Lake City area that is still around, so I started getting excited about B&W.  I went to avsforum and read the B&W owners thread, and I thought "I remember really liking these, and I bet they would be a big step up from what I have."  I made a CD of songs I knew that I liked the sound of, and headed out.  I have to say, though, that I was heavily disappointed in the sound of all of the B&Ws I listened to that were in my price range.  I can't remember the model numbers now (sorry), but there were some that I actually would describe as "pretty bad", and the rest seemed merely adequate, and not any better than what I had (and possibly worse).  There were a pair I heard that I thought sounded pretty good, but they were about twice as much as what I considered the high end of what I was looking to spend.

This experience was frustrating, and I went back to the avsforum to start the search again.  There are so many different kinds of speakers, and I wasn't sure where to begin, especially since it seemed like the options for actually hearing them were very limited.  I had learned from my B&W experience that I couldn't really trust that what others thought would be the same as what I thought, and so I wasn't sure what to do.  I was strongly considering sticking with Polk since I knew I liked the sound, and just buying more expensive ones.

Somehow I stumbled upon Nuance's speaker journey thread there.  I remember reading his first post and laughing to myself, thinking "here's a guy that will never be satisfied."   :lol:  To my surprise, though, I saw that he actually had found his dream speaker, and that was when I first learned about Salk speakers.  (It would be interesting to take a survey of how many Salk owners were influenced in their purchase by Nuance :thumb:)

The more I read, the more I knew that I wanted some of the Salk magic.  I had to force myself to remain objective, though, reminding myself of how excited I had been about B&W until I heard them.  I finally emailed Jim, who patiently answered all of my questions (that I'm sure he has answered hundreds of times already) but also found someone close to me who graciously allowed me to come over to his house on a Sunday evening and listen to his SongTowers.

I have to be honest:  They weren't quite the revelatory experience I had secretly been hoping for.  (My disappointment wasn't entirely unexpected, since I thought it would be hard to live up to all of the hype hehehe.)  Still, they were clearly better than my Polks, and I knew I would be happy with them, so I left knowing that I had made my decision to buy.

When I placed my order, Jim didn't give me an estimate of how long they would take to make, but I decided it was maybe better that way so I wouldn't risk being disappointed if they weren't finished in time.  I had read that 45 days was a reasonable estimate, but in checking the dates on the thread here it seemed like it would probably take longer than that, especially since I was having an entire 5.1 set made.  My plan worked, because they were finished sooner than I had expected, and it was a very pleasant unexpected surprise to get the email from Jim.

Incidentally, while I had been doing all of my online research, I stumbled upon all of the acoustic treatments one could do to improve a listening room, and so during the time I was waiting for the speakers to be made I bought some corner bass traps and absorbers for early reflection points.  I know what I'm about to say echoes what everyone else always says, but if anyone reading this is in the same situation I was and wondering if it's worth it to treat your room, the answer is YES.  I honestly think that if I had treated my room first before doing any speaker research I probably wouldn't have upgraded my speakers when I did, because the improvement in sound was already so drastic.

Anyway, the speakers were scheduled to arrive on a Monday, and I had a funeral for a friend's father that I needed to play piano at in the morning.  I didn't want to have to wait an extra day to listen to my speakers, but I also was nervous about having them sit outside my door for a few hours.  (I'm single and live alone... those kids playing my piano in the picture are my niece and nephew :wink:)  I decided to leave a note on my door telling FedEx to call me if they got there before I got back.  I figured if it was during the funeral there was nothing I could do about it and I would just have to wait another day, but if I was driving home I could risk them sitting outside unattended for a fifteen minutes.

After the funeral I turned my phone back on with great anticipation, but there weren't any messages.  I checked the tracking page, and they still hadn't been delivered, so I figured I hadn't missed them.  When I got home, however, this was waiting for me:



My note said I would be home soon, so maybe they decided that was enough and they didn't need a signature.  The picture doesn't really convey how big these boxes looked when I first saw them... It was quite an imposing sight!  (I wondered if the neighbors tried to get in or out and grumbled that they couldn't get through 8))  Since I didn't get the customary shot of the FedEx truck, here's one that made me sorry for whoever at FedEx had to carry the boxes up to my third floor condo:



Unfortunately, I really couldn't miss any more work that day, so I had to leave them in their boxes until I got home that evening.  The packing job was as good as everyone always says it is.  Here's the famous Salk Birth Certificate:



And here are some pictures of me unpacking and assembling one of the SongTowers:







A funny story about attaching the plinths:  It turns out you need a socket wrench to assemble these.  I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this, but I didn't have one :oops:, and by this time it was getting kind of late.  Not only was I worried about getting to a store before it closed, but the later in the day it gets the more I worry about disturbing my downstairs neighbors with loud volume, and I definitely wanted to at least play the speakers at a reasonable volume for their maiden voyage.  It all turned out ok, but I did probably drive a bit faster than the speed limit to get my socket wrench :lol:.  So, for any n00bs out there like myself, make sure you have the needed equipment before you start trying to assemble your new speakers!  8)

Ok, this introduction has turned out much longer than I had expected and taken much longer to write than I had anticipated, so I'm going to stop for now and will have to post my actual listening impressions later.  I hope it's been at least somewhat interesting reading  :oops:.  For now, here are some pictures of the all of the speakers set up.  These are all taken with my phone (the only camera I have), so I apologize for the poor quality.

The whole setup (except for the rear right speaker, which didn't fit in frame):



Closeup of the SongSub:



It's bigger than I had expected, which has made it a bit of a challenge to place in my small room so that it doesn't interfere with the front right speaker, but it seems to work pretty well where it is (except when guests come over and I bring a second sectional in... then it kind of takes away leg space 8)).

Here's one of the rear SongBirds:



And here's a final one of just the fronts:



Thanks for reading!  More to come later...

Saturn94

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Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #1 on: 10 May 2011, 11:25 pm »
Great post! :D

Looking forward to your listening impressions.

gump305

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Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #2 on: 11 May 2011, 12:35 am »
Very nice write up, and super nice setup.  I can't wait to here how you like them.

Phil A

Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #3 on: 11 May 2011, 01:51 am »
Very nice set-up and beautiful finish on the speakers.

Nuance

Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #4 on: 11 May 2011, 12:53 pm »
John-Paul,

I have really enjoyed your write-up thus far and can't wait for the finale!  You've been gifted with the ability to convey your thoughts and emotions in writing, and I'm very excited to read your listening impressions.  Don't make us wait too long! :)

Your speakers look amazing, and I am sure they sound the same.  Welcome to the Salk family my friend!

ratso

Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #5 on: 11 May 2011, 02:47 pm »
the part about the song for your dad - very nicely done sir.

bryede

Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #6 on: 11 May 2011, 06:18 pm »
I can tell you one thing about my SongTowers- they have surprised me with every system upgrade I've made. Audiophiles have a (rather annoying) sense of when something has become a weak link. Upgrade one thing, and suddenly something else isn't up to the challenge. But, with every upgrade I make I just get more and more from the SongTowers. With my new Oppo universal player and my Ortofon 2M Black cartridge, the ST's let me hear farther and farther into the music. I know I might one day reach their limit, but for now I still consider them one of the best values in home audio.

And oh yes, room treatments make all the difference giving you the most precise soundstage combined with headphone-like clarity.

Big Red Machine

Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #7 on: 11 May 2011, 08:05 pm »
I can tell you one thing about my SongTowers- they have surprised me with every system upgrade I've made. Audiophiles have a (rather annoying) sense of when something has become a weak link. Upgrade one thing, and suddenly something else isn't up to the challenge. But, with every upgrade I make I just get more and more from the SongTowers. With my new Oppo universal player and my Ortofon 2M Black cartridge, the ST's let me hear farther and farther into the music. I know I might one day reach their limit, but for now I still consider them one of the best values in home audio.

And oh yes, room treatments make all the difference giving you the most precise soundstage combined with headphone-like clarity.

Agree.  Been there.  My Songtowers continue to make me smile in my HT.  I am quite happy with them and they seem to gel very well.  My HT2TL's have still not reached their peak but I have squeezed more sound out of them than I thought was possible.  I cannot wait to get my modded dac and new amps so I can see how much better they can sound.  I already told Jim months ago that I didn't know the HT2's could sound THAT good.  While I am building a system capable of driving SoundScapes, I am astounded with what I can achieve with the HT2's. 

ricardojoa

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Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #8 on: 12 May 2011, 03:45 pm »
Hi jonpol, do you think you can help me get the external measurements of the sub? I tried to get that info on salk page but i dont is available. Thank in advance.

jonpol

Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #9 on: 12 May 2011, 05:59 pm »
Hi jonpol, do you think you can help me get the external measurements of the sub? I tried to get that info on salk page but i dont is available. Thank in advance.

Measured from the top it's about 16x14 inches without the grills on, and about 16x16 with them.  The exposed part of the amp adds about another inch, so the space requirements are closer to 17x14/16, not including the cables, of course.

It's about 24 inches high, not including the spikes.  Those add about another inch.

Hope that helps!

jonpol

Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #10 on: 12 May 2011, 06:27 pm »
Thanks to everyone who commented on my original novella :wink:.  Unfortunately, it looks like I'm going to be out of town for a while with no access to internet besides my phone, so my listening impressions will have to be delayed for a bit.  In the meantime, I took a few more pictures with the grills removed, although they are very similar to the initial ones (I kept trying to think of more creative shots, but didn't have much luck 8))

The fronts again:



Front Left:



Sub:



Center (with an image on the TV to try and give a bit of variety hehehe):



I thought it might also be interesting for some people to know the recordings I used to demo speakers (it's always interesting to me to hear what others use, anyway), so here's the list:

  • Stay (Wasting Time) -- Dave Matthews Band, Before These Crowded Streets
  • In the Springtime of His Voodo -- Tori Amos, Boys for Pele
  • Way Down in the Hole -- The Blind Boys of Alabama, Spirit of the Century
  • Woman King -- Iron & Wine, Woman King
  • Hikari -- Hikaru Utada, Deep River
  • The Pot -- Tool, 10,000 Days
  • Hallelujah -- Jeff Buckley, Grace
  • Hey Jupiter -- Tori Amos, Boys for Pele

In-depth listening impressions still to come in a few weeks!

coke

Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #11 on: 12 May 2011, 06:40 pm »
When you get the time, try experimenting with less or no toe in.  You might also try switching the speakers so that the tweeters are on the outside.  Not saying that these will improve the sound in your room, but it definitely worked in mine.

ricardojoa

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Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #12 on: 13 May 2011, 04:41 am »
Measured from the top it's about 16x14 inches without the grills on, and about 16x16 with them.  The exposed part of the amp adds about another inch, so the space requirements are closer to 17x14/16, not including the cables, of course.

It's about 24 inches high, not including the spikes.  Those add about another inch.

Hope that helps!
Thanks Jonpol, greatly appreciated.

ricardojoa

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Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #13 on: 13 May 2011, 09:48 am »
By the way Jonpol,
those paoferro doesnt look like the typical pao ferro i see from other salk. Yours do seem to be more redish, were those dyed in rose red? I didnt see it mentioned on the cert so i guess they were not.

jsalk

Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #14 on: 13 May 2011, 07:30 pm »
By the way Jonpol,
those paoferro doesnt look like the typical pao ferro i see from other salk. Yours do seem to be more redish, were those dyed in rose red? I didnt see it mentioned on the cert so i guess they were not.

Yes, a deep rose/red dye was shot over the top of this veneer.  I think it worked out quite well - very rich looking.

- Jim

vermont99

Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #15 on: 13 May 2011, 09:30 pm »
Jim they look fantastic can not wait to see how my HT3’s come out.  :D

fsimms

Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #16 on: 13 May 2011, 10:24 pm »
Quote
But, with every upgrade I make I just get more and more from the SongTowers.

I noticed the same thing with my HT1’s and now with my SoundScape’s.  Jim’s speakers don’t seem to be the weak link.

Quote
And oh yes, room treatments make all the difference giving you the most precise soundstage combined with headphone-like clarity.

I thought my new tube preamp made a big difference, but the RealTraps Diffuser panels that I got today made a major improvement with just leaning them against the wall!  I found myself giving a primal scream playing Niles Loftgren’s “Keith Don’t Go”.   :thumb:






Bob


Legends

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Re: John-Paul's 5.1 SongSeries (Pictures and Impressions)
« Reply #17 on: 12 Sep 2011, 10:10 pm »
Great story,

I hope the OT comes back to follow-up on his listening experience.