[charmerci]

If willing to spend $4300 for the custom Tempesta, is it worth spending a little more for the Soundscape?

Well, the Salk HT2-TL's are $4500 plus shipping. http://www.salksound.com/ht2-tl%20-%20home.htm

You should go to this Salk thread - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=20721.0 to find someone near you to audition a pair. (Or PM Jim Salk to find someone near you.) Listen for yourself.

[saeyedoc]

Well, the Salk HT2-TL's are $4500 plus shipping. http://www.salksound.com/ht2-tl%20-%20home.htm

You should go to this Salk thread - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=20721.0 to find someone near you to audition a pair. (Or PM Jim Salk to find someone near you.) Listen for yourself.

I'm more interested in stand-mounts, specifically the soundscape M7 which is $4700
I did go through the audition thread, closest on there is 3+ hours away.
I'll email Jim when I'm closer to making a decision to see if there's anyone in this area (San Antonio or Austin).

[kip_]

The Soundscape M7 is not really an apples to apples comparison due to the extra cost of the veneer and cost of shipping. By the time you include those you are looking at more like $5500 depending on veneer, whereas with the Tempesta these are both included. They should sound very similar, the speakers use identical drivers except for the woofer.

[saeyedoc]

The Soundscape M7 is not really an apples to apples comparison due to the extra cost of the veneer and cost of shipping. By the time you include those you are looking at more like $5500 depending on veneer, whereas with the Tempesta these are both included. They should sound very similar, the speakers use identical drivers except for the woofer.

So what you're saying is that for a 3-way with custom veneers, there's no added value in spending an extra $1k or so on the Salk vs the Selah?
If so, then it may boil down to the Tempesta straddling the price point of the Cirrus depending on whether one can live with the standard cabinets or is willing to pony up for the custom veneers to put it on a closer playing field with the Cirrus.
The other consideration is going with a more established company vs a newer startup with some growing pains. What happens if you blow a driver in 5 years, who will be around to help you with the repair?
The question then may be whether the more sophisticated cabinet structure of the Cirrus really makes a difference in the sound quality, or is one better off spending those dollars on drivers.

[ricardojoa]

The Soundscape M7 is not really an apples to apples comparison due to the extra cost of the veneer and cost of shipping. By the time you include those you are looking at more like $5500 depending on veneer, whereas with the Tempesta these are both included. They should sound very similar, the speakers use identical drivers except for the woofer.

Well the SSM7 is going to cost more no matter what. But  i dont think those standard cabinets finish  compares to any from salk. The salk comes with a variety of standard veneer. If someone upgrade the veneer on the selah, the 1000 upcharge might include a few types of veneers but one might have to pay a litle extra for those expensive exotic veneer. Another thing is, both the midrange and high are different from the SS, but both are from raal and accuton. The ones from SS are supposed to cost more. The SS are all custom versus selah using prefab cabinets thats why there is an upcharge from selah when you upgrade the venneer.

[saeyedoc]

Yes, I understand the Salk is going to cost more, the question is what do you get for the extra dollars? Is the standard Salk cabinet "better" than the pre-made one from Selah, if so is it just looks or does it affect the sound? From what I've heard the upgrade on the Selah includes "most" veneers, not sure which are an additional charge. From what I've seen, looks like upgraded veneer materials on the Salk are about $400/pr in addition to the $100 charge for the custom option.
They both use custom versions of the Raal, not sure if either use the amorphous core or how they differ. I don't know the details of which midrange is used in either one, just that they're both Accuton.
I know Salk has a reputation for excellent cabinetry, I assume it's probably nicer than the upgraded Tempesta cab.
I'm sure any of my contenders will sound great. But which will sound the best, if there is any such thing and which will look best in my room.
From a bang for the buck perspective based on sound, not aesthetics,  I think the Tempesta in the standard cabinet has to have the best value. The Philharmonics even more so, but I can't get over the look, especially if I have 3 for the LCR.
In the end, $1000 or two isn't going to make much difference over the long term, I've learned over the years that it's best to get what you want. 5 years from now I'm more likely to question whether  I should have spent the extra dollars than agonizing if I spent too much.
Right now I'm listening to my 2Cs and they sound pretty darn good for 25 year old speakers, but I'm left wondering how much better more modern drivers and designs could sound.
It is fun to educate yourself on these things.

[ricardojoa]

Well, impossible to say which sound best, what sound best to me may not be with you. You mention phil, have you tried asking dennis to custom make the top section as a regular box type?

[saeyedoc]

Well, impossible to say which sound best, what sound best to me may not be with you. You mention phil, have you tried asking dennis to custom make the top section as a regular box type?

Not yet, I actually like the idea of the open back planar mid, it's more the size of the lower cabinet and the way they sit on top of each other that bothers me. It just doesn't have that polished look and some owners have said that the cabinets don't fit tightly together (he is using carpet in between them).

Remember where I'm coming from, trying to get something less imposing looking than my Vandys. As much as I like them, they're not the greatest things to look at all the time.

[vortrex]

Salk - I read an older thread on another forum where (I believe it was Dennis) said Salk uses all AM Core RAAL but doesn't advertise this.  Also, the Salk uses the bigger Accuton.  May be less efficient and not play as low as the Selah or the Vapor?

[MichiganMike]

They both use custom versions of the Raal, not sure if either use the amorphous core or how they differ. I don't know the details of which midrange is used in either one, just that they're both Accuton.

It has been posted by Dennis Murphy that Salk uses a customized version of the RAAL tweeter with the amorphous core.  I do not know how the Salk RAAL tweeter may differ from that in the Selah.  Since RAAL obligates its customers to confidentiality with respect to the 70-20XR design, you likely will not be able to get much detailed information.

The Accuton midrange in the Selah appears smaller in diameter than that in the Salk.  Based on appearance, the Salk may use a 130 mm diameter midrange and the Selah a 106 mm diameter midrange.  The 130 mm ceramic midranges on the Accuton webpage have a Fs of about 100 Hz whereas the 106 mm has an Fs of 380 Hz.  Thus it appears the midrange drivers are from the same family but may differ in performance and design. 

One of the things that motivated my purchase of Salk SoundScapes was the musical blending of the drivers that I attribute in part to Dennis Murphy's crossover design.  The crossover may be as important as the drivers in achieving exceptional performance.  Again, I have no basis to compare or comment on the Selah crossover design.   

[saeyedoc]

Thanks for those details on the Salk drivers.
I now recall Dennis saying that he was going to leave the high-end monitor business to Jim and wasn't interested in developing something along the lines of the M7 or Tempesta.
I'll continue to ponder the options while waiting for Vortex to compare the Cirrus to the Tempesta.

[jonbee]

Rick at Selah will use any version of the RAAL you ask for, with some price variance, of course.
The Accuton in the Tempesta is a 50 mm unit, which offers real advantages when paired with the RAAL- namely, its ringing is at 19khz., vs. around 5 khz in the larger Accuton mids (look at the data sheets on these drivers and you can clearly see the problem). To control the ringing in the larger units means some sort of trap in the midrange crossover, making for a more complex xover. If not dealt with, the handover from the mid to the RAAL is dirtier sounding. Using the 50 mm unit takes that issue out of the picture, and I can attest that the handoff from the mid to the tweeter is inaudible. It sounds more like a planar through the upper range for this reason.
The 50 mm mid unit means the woofer must handle up to 900hz or so, compared to 4-500 for the larger mids, but the 7" Scanspeak Illuminator handles that range without penalty, making the whole as seamless as I've ever heard from any multi-way design. Using a larger woofer would necessitate using the larger mid as Salk does with the Soundscape 10 and 12.
Also, compared to a 2 way, the 50 mm Accuton/RAAL combo offers speed, transparency and coherence in the upper mids to lower treble that is truly worth hearing. That is the area where the human ear is most sensitive, and precisely where 6-7" or larger drivers start to have problems.
Just my 2c.

[saeyedoc]

Jonbee, thanks for that excellent explanation of some of the differences in approach. I do recall reading somewhere about the advantage of using the smaller Accuton to deal with the ringing issue.
From reading your impressions, it speaks a lot that you claim the Tempesta is the last of your 250 or so speakers. It was a least partially some of your posts that drew me in that direction.
I see you got yours in Pau Ferro, was that the standard upgrade charge or was it extra? Did you get any other upgrades in yours? Do you know if Rick makes any internal changes to the pre-built cabinet?

[saisunil]

I've recently received my Cirrus and posted my impressions on Audiogon in the Vapor Cirrus Review thread under user mtruong34:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1291159371&openflup&149&4#149

Thanks for your very candid review with all the pluses and minuses ... Nicely done.
At also gives me a point of reference since I own TRL gear.

You want to looking into trying an external DAC as I did not see that mentioned in the list ofmy our equipment. On another note that may be unnecessary as you are already enjoying music

Super thanks
Sunil

[saisunil]

I have both the Cirrus and Tempesta on order now.  I think the Tempesta will be ready in 2 weeks.  I bought the kit and had the cabinets outsourced and built out of stacked birch ply with the same specs as the pre-built cabinets.  I heard that my Cirrus are 2 weeks away from veneering, so hopefully they are not too far away from being finished.  I'm going to live with both for a while and keep the ones I like best.

That would be a most useful impression on this thread ...
I look forward to it...

In my opinion - these are three nice choices - a good problem to have.
Based on one's priorities and risk tolerance - a nice decision can be arrived at.

Personally I am waiting for Danny's new open baffle design with servo subs and neo 10's - granted they are not monitors but they are most intriguing to me ... Followed by the three speaker manufacturers mentioned here - outside of a handful of high priced main-stream speakers.

[ricardojoa]

The raal from the tempesta is the 70-10 while the Salk is the 70-20. version. There is advantage to either design and i wouldnt worry too much about ringing on the Salk with larger mid.

[mtruong34]

Thanks for your very candid review with all the pluses and minuses ... Nicely done.
At also gives me a point of reference since I own TRL gear.

You want to looking into trying an external DAC as I did not see that mentioned in the list ofmy our equipment. On another note that may be unnecessary as you are already enjoying music

Super thanks
Sunil

Thanks Sunil.  I actually have a Bryston BDA-1 DAC, Modwright Transporter and TRL Dude Preamp that I've been working in and out of my system for several months.  The sound out of a stock transporter through a TVC passive preamp has been so satisfying that I'm rather content giving up that last small % of musical quality for convenience (which is remote capability, having an always on and ready to play system, and the hassle of dealing with tubes).

Mike

[jonbee]

I see you got yours in Pau Ferro, was that the standard upgrade charge or was it extra? Did you get any other upgrades in yours? Do you know if Rick makes any internal changes to the pre-built cabinet?

The Pau Ferro is an upcharge. I did not get any upgrades internally, but I did rewire mine internally with VH audio OCC/teflon wire, which was an improvement.
Rick does totally line the cabinets with no-rez. There is also a clever vertical brace in the cabinet (in the PE cabinet) that braces all 4 sides (the front and very small rear panel don't need bracing). The result works very well. The lower mid to low bass obfuscation that is the typical signature of panel flap is totally missing. That part of the range is about as transparent as the rest of the range, and one of the clearest speakers in that range that I've heard.
I'm still in love with mine. Because they are so transparent, it takes more work to get the best matchups from the rest of the system, but they always sound great, even on older mediocre CDs and such.

[saeyedoc]

The Pau Ferro is an upcharge. I did not get any upgrades internally, but I did rewire mine internally with VH audio OCC/teflon wire, which was an improvement.
Rick does totally line the cabinets with no-rez. There is also a clever vertical brace in the cabinet (in the PE cabinet) that braces all 4 sides (the front and very small rear panel don't need bracing). The result works very well. The lower mid to low bass obfuscation that is the typical signature of panel flap is totally missing. That part of the range is about as transparent as the rest of the range, and one of the clearest speakers in that range that I've heard.
I'm still in love with mine. Because they are so transparent, it takes more work to get the best matchups from the rest of the system, but they always sound great, even on older mediocre CDs and such.

Thanks for this info Jon.
Not sure if we talked about this before, but what are you using for stands?
I think I can get my wife to agree to the standard black cabinets, which will make the Tempesta a great value.

[jonbee]

20" stands are just right. I use Target Audio HS50 which are good (All welded construction is stiffer than bolted) and priced right but hard to find; there are others out there of course. As these are heavy get a good solid stand. I use sorbothane between the stands and speakers.
Yes, the stock cabinet models are a terrific bargain.