[Phil A]

Thanks for the clarification and the welcome as I misunderstood part 1 of post 687.  The BDA 1 and 2 were supposed to sound the same too hence the other part of my question seems relevant. As I don't plan to download too many DSD files my interest is in a)PCM improvement b)SACD playback and c) ability to selectively up sample as the ability to up sample or not is a huge plus and still is with bryston DACS. The ability to upsample to DSD would have been neat to play with. Not a deal breaker though

If you use a player like JRiver, it does allow an upsample of DSD.  I never played with it much.  Having DSD playback over a DAC is nice (I have 2) since as a consumer I have no power or choice who releases what on a particular format (and in a perfect world it would be nice if there were one format).  I downloaded a couple of 24/192 Simon & Garfunkel albums from HDTracks the other day, have signed up for and downloaded the free tracks from Just Listen (https://www.nativedsd.com/) and some are in DSD, double DSD, DXD, etc., so you can compare (I have not as yet) and will probably buy a bunch of SHM SACDs from CDJapan soon and then burn and extract those.

[ebogda01]

Wow,
you guys have spent the Thanksgiving weekend here

Let me clarify something. What caused the upheaval is not the lack of announcement , but rather reaction of an official representative of the company , that demonstrated "I don't really care approach" towards his customers. All he seemingly cares  about is publishing nice reviews about the products, not your feelings or concerns of his customers .

Grit - the problem is, it's not 3-6 months... It's just 2 months and the brochure is already printed and even MSRP is announced, still no press release or news section update... 

Tympani - I waited for 6 months to be able to audition the BDA/BDP in my set up. Yes, indeed I liked it that's why I ordered it... BUT, I could have waited for another 2 months easily...

R. Daneel - I don't find the BDA-3 "significantly more expensive". Given the depreciation of DIGITAL products its not a big deal.

Digital products unlike TT or amps see constant and rapid development of both hardware and software that make them obsolete much much quicker. And it has nothing to do with the desire to have "the latest" per se, the quality of the sound usually improves a lot driven by that change. And of course, audio affection will drive the desire to upgrade, not the desire for a new thing. Thus, buying a digital product in 2014 cannot be for a lifetime like a turntable, for example. As for me, unlike mav52 I can't go back and refuse the purchase already, but I perfectly understand his feelings.  I'm waiting for the delivery this coming week and hope to be able to enjoy the product despite James' attitude and comments here. As for the future if Bryston manages to come up with new great products and is not ruined by that "I don't really care" approach, I'll certainly be happy for the company.

PS. A really qualified marketing manager should have avoided this kind of conversation in his own manufacturer's thread by posting a simple "sorry message"...
PS2. Why your guitar teacher, plumber, mover etc. says "Thank you, I really appreciate your business", but here you get "do as you think best for you"? Given the ticket size, should be the other way around

[Rod_S]

Wow,
you guys have spent the Thanksgiving weekend here

Let me clarify something. What caused the upheaval is not the lack of announcement , but rather reaction of an official representative of the company , that demonstrated "I don't really care approach" towards his customers. All he seemingly cares  about is publishing nice reviews about the products, not your feelings or concerns of his customers .

Grit - the problem is, it's not 3-6 months... It's just 2 months and the brochure is already printed and even MSRP is announced, still no press release or news section update... 

Tympani - I waited for 6 months to be able to audition the BDA/BDP in my set up. Yes, indeed I liked it that's why I ordered it... BUT, I could have waited for another 2 months easily...

R. Daneel - I don't find the BDA-3 "significantly more expensive". Given the depreciation of DIGITAL products its not a big deal.

Digital products unlike TT or amps see constant and rapid development of both hardware and software that make them obsolete much much quicker. And it has nothing to do with the desire to have "the latest" per se, the quality of the sound usually improves a lot driven by that change. And of course, audio affection will drive the desire to upgrade, not the desire for a new thing. Thus, buying a digital product in 2014 cannot be for a lifetime like a turntable, for example. As for me, unlike mav52 I can't go back and refuse the purchase already, but I perfectly understand his feelings.  I'm waiting for the delivery this coming week and hope to be able to enjoy the product despite James' attitude and comments here. As for the future if Bryston manages to come up with new great products and is not ruined by that "I don't really care" approach, I'll certainly be happy for the company.

PS. A really qualified marketing manager should have avoided this kind of conversation in his own manufacturer's thread by posting a simple "sorry message"...
PS2. Why your guitar teacher, plumber, mover etc. says "Thank you, I really appreciate your business", but here you get "do as you think best for you"? Given the ticket size, should be the other way around

I guess we all interpret things differently. I see it as you blowing things way out of proportion to the point of acting like a spoiled child not getting what he wants.

Also a product isn't released until it's released. Even as you state all those items have happened, brochure, MSRP announcement, etc. but that's not to say something unexpected comes up which causes a compete delay of production. I've seen it happen before to the point a product was outright cancelled just months before it was expected to be on the street.

[ebogda01]

I guess we all interpret things differently. I see it as you blowing things way out of proportion to the point of acting like a spoiled child not getting what he wants.

Also a product isn't released until it's released. Even as you state all those items have happened, brochure, MSRP announcement, etc. but that's not to say something unexpected comes up which causes a compete delay of production. I've seen it happen before to the point a product was outright cancelled just months before it was expected to be on the street.

we are..

[Grit]

For me, I suppose the difference is that I'm familiar with James, both from posts and some PM's. I've interacted with a few other members of Bryston's staff, who've helped me resolve some problems or assisted me with something I was trying to accomplish. From my experience and point of view, James and Bryston have been some, if not the, best in this business or any other.

That prior interaction lead me to view James' statement in a different manner than you did. While I can understand your point of view, my experience makes me believe/feel that James and Bryston absolutely do care about their customers.

[mav52]

Well you do what you think best. As for me I am lying out of this thread.

James

Your lying , what the heck does that mean, so everything you have written is not true   
Just attempting to understand what you wrote

noun
1.
the telling of lies, or false statements; untruthfulness:

adjective
2.
telling or containing lies; deliberately untruthful; deceitful; false:
a lying report.
Synonyms: deceptive, misleading, mendacious, fallacious; sham, counterfeit.

[James Tanner]

Your lying , what the heck does that mean, so everything you have written is not true   
Just attempting to understand what you wrote

noun
1.
the telling of lies, or false statements; untruthfulness:

adjective
2.
telling or containing lies; deliberately untruthful; deceitful; false:
a lying report.
Synonyms: deceptive, misleading, mendacious, fallacious; sham, counterfeit.

Hi mav

Sorry that was said incorrectly  - I meant I was bowing out of the discussion as I felt all I could say was said.

We are rethinking what we put on the website but up until now only products that are currently available for sale are listed on the website.  The Forum I see as much less formal and a place to discuss ideas and concepts and of course help our customers.


As for the BDA3 here is how I handled it so far:

We showed a prototype of the BDA-3 in October at the Toronto Audio Show and sent out an announcement at that time to all our dealers/distributors and anyone on our Bryston News list. 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129860.0

Send me an email and I can send you the preliminary cut sheet.  - jamestanner@bryston.com.

I also added it to the BDA-2 DAC thread on the LOCKED area of the forum at the same time. Essentially the BDA 3 adds DSD to the mix as well as HDMI.  We are still a few months away from release.

james

[mav52]

Hi mav

Sorry that was said incorrectly  - I meant I was bowing out of the discussion as I felt all I could say was said.

We are rethinking what we put on the website but up until now only products that are currently available for sale are listed on the website.  The Forum I see as much less formal and a place to discuss ideas and concepts and of course help our customers.


As for the BDA3 here is how I handled it so far:

We showed a prototype of the BDA-3 in October at the Toronto Audio Show and sent out an announcement at that time to all our dealers/distributors and anyone on our Bryston News list. 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129860.0

Send me an email and I can send you the preliminary cut sheet.  - jamestanner@bryston.com.

I also added it to the BDA-2 DAC thread on the LOCKED area of the forum at the same time. Essentially the BDA 3 adds DSD to the mix as well as HDMI.  We are still a few months away from release.

james

Thank you James

[R. Daneel]

R. Daneel - I don't find the BDA-3 "significantly more expensive". Given the depreciation of DIGITAL products its not a big deal.

BDA-3 is 30% more expensive than the BDA-2. That is significant.

[ebogda01]

BDA-3 is 30% more expensive than the BDA-2. That is significant.

1) I have it at 20% (compared to the list price), but since the purchase is not a single BDA, but rather BDA/BDP combo, the difference becomes less significant (~10%). And by the way, in absolute terms we're speaking about some $600... Not significant for me in this particular case/choice. 

[Phil A]

BDA-3 is 30% more expensive than the BDA-2. That is significant.

Much depends on whether you want to re-sell things at some point since digital technology changes much more rapidly.  Since the BDA-3 does more formats and also has HDMI (which may give it a broader ranger of appeal to someone a bit more into HT with a player such as an Oppo who wants to do better audio), that price difference is probably going to be even more tilted towards being in favor of the BDA-3 (one can already see that in pricing of used ones of the BDA-1 vs. BDA-2 as those sold by individuals vs. dealers show significantly better selling price to original retail as one would expect the way digital changes rapidly - of course it won't probably mean much to someone who will keep a BDA-2 for 10 years).  In other words, someone who bought a BDA-2 at the initial offering vs. a BDA-1 right before the BDA-2 was announced would get more than the price difference back at the present time on the resale market.  Also, what is significant to some may not be significant to all.

[ebogda01]

BDA-2 at the initial offering vs. a BDA-1 right before the BDA-2 was announced would get more than the price difference back at the present time on the resale market.  Also, what is significant to some may not be significant to all.

Exactly!!!
PS. Suggest we close the discussion of who was right/wrong as it creates no value, and no party seems to be interested in changing the opinion.

[Phil A]

Exactly!!!
PS. Suggest we close the discussion of who was right/wrong as it creates no value, and no party seems to be interesting in changing the opinion.

I think that is a great idea.  We all have our favorites (as far as brands, features, etc.), preferences and opinions.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Some people keep cars more than ten years and others much shorter and obviously there are different ways to view values.  It does not serve any purpose (in terms of an audio discussion about a new product) to discuss who values what or who deems what as significant or not significant. So it is much better to talk about the product itself.

[Tympani]

Great!. Getting back to the merits of the BDA-3. James, what features are accessible by remote? Can any functions be controlled via Ethernet connection or remote box?

[R. Daneel]

Hi fellas!

Resale value of Bryston equipment almost seems like a contradiction of terms. Bryston equipment in Europe is loved for it's longevity and reliability, not just for it's sound so resale value is the last thing on our minds. If the NDA-2 is 3000 Euro and BDA-3 4000 Euro, then it is fair to say the difference is significant. Because that is exactly 5 times the salary of a teacher in some EU countries.

Bryston is not a cost-no-object brand, even though it might as well be considering it's performance, so pricing is worth talking about and Bryston talks about it too. Their equipment is often favourably compared to something more expensive so clearly, it is relevant.

Let's not be petulant chilldren here - we can all consider ourselvels lucky to be able to afford it when many cannot.

To quote a friend who leads a successful company "To all the buyers who wield their money like a child who just found his daddy's guy - someone ought to take your money before you hurt yourself with it". That, as well as anything I have heard, applies to the "buy more to get the cost down" logic that someone suggested here.

Cheers!
Antun

Edit: As for the remote, I would like to know that too!

[James Tanner]

Great!. Getting back to the merits of the BDA-3. James, what features are accessible by remote? Can any functions be controlled via Ethernet connection or remote box?

Hi

I would say we hope to use the BR2 remote but it is way too early to say - the software for the BDA3 is really complicated and may take longer than we originally thought.

james

[scirica]

Hi

I will give it more thought but maybe some kind of 'trade up' program over some specified period of time makes some sense?

james

James: I know you don't "owe me" a trade in program, but I would definitely have waited for the BDA-3 instead of getting the "2" recently. Keeping my fingers crossed for good news!

[bjski]

James,
Ordered my BDA-3 tonight along with a Bot. I'll move my BDA-2 to the system that has BDP-1. I'll pair the BDA-3 with the BDP-2. Looking forward to comparing the BDA-2 vs BDA-3. I'm liking the new MM software keep up the good work!
Cheers,
BJ Hammell 

[James Tanner]

James,
Ordered my BDA-3 tonight along with a Bot. I'll move my BDA-2 to the system that has BDP-1. I'll pair the BDA-3 with the BDP-2. Looking forward to comparing the BDA-2 vs BDA-3. I'm liking the new MM software keep up the good work!
Cheers,
BJ Hammell

Hi

OK thanks but please be aware we are a ways off on introducing the BDA-3.

james

[bjski]

Hi

OK thanks but please be aware we are a ways off on introducing the BDA-3.

james

It's all good. I'm going skiing for 3 months so when I return production might be up & running.
Happy Holidays to everyone at bryston and on Audiocircle.