[James Tanner]

Are those wave traps flanking each window and floor to ceiling in corners?  Nice setup.  What diameter are the traps?

The Corner traps were 20 inch bottoms and 14 inch tops.  You are correct though I could never get the room to have that sense of pressure at low frequencies.  The sound stage was great but I eventually gave up on this large a room and I have also changed my mind totally on absorption as a way to treat sound rooms.

james

[werd]

Rooms can be frustrating.  All the bass notes are there for me down to about 40Hz then there isn't much.  I can feel the floor shake two rooms away but not in the room where I have the speakers.  Sound is strange stuff.  My concern is that even subs won't really cure the problem.  I have a small sub on my surround system in the bedroom that I'll move in to do some testing and another larger sub arrives tomorrow.  Crossing my fingers but I don't expect miracles.  Speakers are already full range but subs may launch low frequencies in different directions that change standing waves.  Wish I knew more about this subject.

Did treatment improve bass any in your room?  I assume the concept is to absorb what would be reflected waves to allow hearing direct waves.

You are lucky to have room control without  waf or fam considerations. I find I like bass control to stay in within the stereo image. The best way to do this  is absorption (panels or absorption columns) outside the 2 stereo speakers. 4 panels 2 a side keeps bass in the mid and not lingering and shooting down the side walls.

I have no clue about Home theatre control

I owned a pair of Wharfedales towers that were also excellent bass absorption. Pic shows the right side and what I mean.

[drummermitchell]

James,seems like you have lots of open corners which they say are valid for bass trapping(even ceiling wall corners).
Those tube panels don't seem to cover much area,as they say coverage is important.
Perhaps I frequent to much over at Ethan's site(music players forum(acoustics thread).
I've been using mondo traps 2'x4'+6"s thick spaced the same distance from wall for more absorption.
Except for the big room sound my room sounds just as good as a audio room in the city which is 4X bigger than mine and double drywall with staggered studs ect.
I was quite shocked at what I could achieve in this room with lots of bass trapping ect.

[James Tanner]

James,seems like you have lots of open corners which they say are valid for bass trapping(even ceiling wall corners).
Those tube panels don't seem to cover much area,as they say coverage is important.
Perhaps I frequent to much over at Ethan's site(music players forum(acoustics thread).
I've been using mondo traps 2'x4'+6"s thick spaced the same distance from wall for more absorption.
Except for the big room sound my room sounds just as good as a audio room in the city which is 4X bigger than mine and double drywall with staggered studs ect.
I was quite shocked at what I could achieve in this room with lots of bass trapping ect.

Hi Drummer

The above room had huge traps in every corner floor to ceiling so the room was trapped well - my feeling is that once a room gets too large the bass pressure required becomes significant to the point where you start dealing with large room acoustics rather than small room acoustics and that changes the acoustical requirements significantly. I also feel that absorption reduced the natural dynamics of the music and I could never get the bass to sound open and natural. 

I have totally changed my mind on room acoustics over the last few years.

james

 

[stashoo99]

I agree with james.  As the room gets larger reflections are less of an issue. You always run the risk of loss of dynamics w I th diffusion or absorption.  I think corner traps are good but over treating rooms deadens dynamics. Experience from the last two weeks says speaker voicing is very important down to parts of inches  and multiple sub woofers set to low gain and very low frequency is the answer.  Bass is directional regardless of what we  hear from the experts and woofer placement and orientation is important.   

[James Tanner]

I agree with james.  As the room gets larger reflections are less of an issue. You always run the risk of loss of dynamics w I th diffusion or absorption.  I think corner traps are good but over treating rooms deadens dynamics. Experience from the last two weeks says speaker voicing is very important down to parts of inches  and multiple sub woofers set to low gain and very low frequency is the answer.  Bass is directional regardless of what we  hear from the experts and woofer placement and orientation is important.   

Hi Stash

Have a look at this - they are some measurements I made using one, two and 3 subs in a number of different rooms placed in multiple locations:

In Room Linearity:

It can be argued, and somewhat rightly so, that linearity does not matter if you are using EQ in your system to adjust dips and peaks in your room for the sub frequencies. This said, not everyone is using EQ and there are good reasons why not doing so. Using EQ is not a simple thing to get right. Bryston does not recommend using EQ in a Subwoofer and we certainly have the equipment to set it up and implement it properly. Using two or four subs around the room is going to do a much better job of smoothing out the bass response in the room (assuming your subwoofers are linear in a 4pi environment to start with). In our view this is the proper way to achieve great bass in your listening room.

Purple line in Fig 1 is one Sub
FIG -1 TWO SUBS
FIG 2 - Three Subs



Notice above how as you add subs from 1 to 2 to 3 the very low frequency levels (20Hz to 30Hz) do not change much amplitude but the serious dips in response (40 to - 80Hz) in the room start to fill in and even out.
With equalization and room correction type products all you can do is pull down the peak between 20Hz and 30Hz in the single woofer and then only for one listening location.

james


[stashoo99]

James, I'm in your neighbourhood, actually in Toronto this week. It's hard to view your graphs on my mobile device but what is disappointing is that the low freq below 40 hz are not impacted by subs. Is that what you are showing?  Also how are subs connected? Mono or speaker level one each on left and right?

[James Tanner]

James, I'm in your neighbourhood, actually in Toronto this week. It's hard to view your graphs on my mobile device but what is disappointing is that the low freq below 40 hz are not impacted by subs. Is that what you are showing?  Also how are subs connected? Mono or speaker level one each on left and right?

Hi

These were small 8 inch subs just randomly placed around a variety of different size rooms to show the advantage of multiple subs.  It is not my room.  In my 1st soundroom I have 5 subs - two at the front (left and right) I use in stereo and two in the rear corners and 1 in the front center that get added for surround  sound duties.  I am getting a good flat 17 Hz with the Bryston Model T Subs.



james

[stashoo99]

Thanks. Great looking surround system.  I would love to see a better rendition of BPD2 android control on mini2. It looks like most of the improvements in the software interface have been for larger screens. Am I off base there?

[gdayton]

Thanks. Great looking surround system.  I would love to see a better rendition of BPD2 android control on mini2. It looks like most of the improvements in the software interface have been for larger screens. Am I off base there?

Yep, the new design is fully responsive and reformats appropriately based on screen size and resolution. As always, you can use MPdroid which works really well for me too.

[stashoo99]

gdayton, I have never seen the layout you show in the picture.  When I use a Samsung Note 8.0 and the mini2 software I get a list of music names and some distorted pictures after you make a selection.  I've seen a nice interface on the PC but not on my smaller device. The mini2 won't load album names and in fact starts a search process that never ends.  I have to stick to artist lists. It must be me having set up the software improperly or maybe I have old software.

Music is on the BDP2 USB connected drive. The network is wired in the house.  I emailed Bryston a couple of times and they sent me a link to a video that shows how nice the interface looks.  I just can't duplicate that on my hand held device.  I guess more work on my side is required.

[James Tanner]

gdayton, I have never seen the layout you show in the picture.  When I use a Samsung Note 8.0 and the mini2 software I get a list of music names and some distorted pictures after you make a selection.  I've seen a nice interface on the PC but not on my smaller device. The mini2 won't load album names and in fact starts a search process that never ends.  I have to stick to artist lists. It must be me having set up the software improperly or maybe I have old software.

Music is on the BDP2 USB connected drive. The network is wired in the house.  I emailed Bryston a couple of times and they sent me a link to a video that shows how nice the interface looks.  I just can't duplicate that on my hand held device.  I guess more work on my side is required.

Hi Stash

If you are having issues with the Album Art loading that is still being worked on so it will not be representative of the end result.

james

[James Tanner]

From: "john.springer
Subject: *** The Bryston BDA-2 DAC ***
Date: June 6, 2014 at 8:48:08 PM EDT
To: jamestanner@bryston.com

Hi James:

I recently came across Karl Schuster's level-headed and articulate Review of the BDA-2 DAC, so I ordered it from William Hordyk, Owner of Atlas Audio Video Unlimited, as a replacement for my beloved BDA-1. 

The BDA-2 is a revelation!  I'm not as articulate as Karl Schuster, but his mention of dramatically reduced Harshness & Grain is spot on!   Other things he mentioned, such as the Sound Stage extending further back, are also amazing to my ears, and even non-audiophile Friends commented, before it was burned in, that the Audio seemed "Smoother" and "Richer" to them.

Speaking of "Long-Term Burn-In", the BDA-2 has only about 90 Hours on it, and my System keeps sounding better and better!  Where will this end?

If you're trying to place me, I am still using a pair of Quad ESL 2905 Speakers, with all-Bryston Amplification, including a pair of 28BSST (Squared) Monoblocks.

Congratulations to everyone at Bryston, and Keep Up The Good Work!

Best Wishes,
John Springer

p.s.    The Accepted Wisdom is that one should drive Quad Electrostatics with Tube Amps of no more than 200 Watts, but last Wednesday an Audience of 65 at Oak Bay Lodge were enjoying Canizares playing The Rodrigo Guitar Concerto with the Berlin Philharmonic in the Teatro Real in Madrid, and I had the Volume at 3pm (600 Watts?) during his Solo. 

Admittedly, I had the 28Bs set to the lower Gain, but I honestly think the BDA-2 made the difference between UNCOMFORTABLY LOUD, and True Front Row Sound Pressure Level with Negligible Distortion.  Of course, the Bryston BIT-20 also contributed by feeding Pure Power to everything except the Amps, which each have their own Toroidal Isolation Transformer.

[jeffjensen]

This sounds fishy, but intriguing.  Another claim for mod improvement.  Sharing in case you want to know of it, James.

"Bryston BDA 1 / 2 DAC *Audiophile Upgrade Service for YOUR DAC*"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=171385019404


The info from the listing for permanence here:


*Audiophile Upgrade Service for YOUR DAC*

Bryston BDA 1 / 2 DAC

This exclusive custom upgrade eliminates the stock restrained sound from your Bryston BDA 1 / 2 DAC unleashing an absolute rock-solid powerhouse of a DAC giving you a much fuller, tuneful, and accurate presentation with more depth, clarity, detail, nuance to every note and sound while authoritatively conveying the essential timbre and soul of the recording simultaneously with a lush, expansive and seductive ambience whether dry or wet compelling a high degree of emotional involvement. This upgrade is a dramatic step up in terms of dynamics, presence, weight and separation; bass is deep, taut and, palpable, midrange tones are throaty, present and chewy and the high end is as clear as crystal while being as smooth as silk, all together in perfect harmonious balance. Imaging and soundstage are as correct as the recording and the concrete phantom center will haunt you for days. A must if you prefer the absolute convenience of a digital source but prefer the truest reference audiophile quality available from Bryston. The stock Bryston BDA 1 / 2 simply pales in comparison to the upgraded version with the stock unit simply incapable of fulfilling high expectations in a satisfactory manner due in part to it's otherwise almost nonexistent power reserve severely limiting sound quality. Now, after the upgrade the DAC is much better suited to the task with, amongst other things, an order of magnitude more properly qualified power reserve [justly befitting the pedigree] more than amply capable of the heavy-lifting required to send a more powerfully balanced signal downstream to your high-end amplifiers that crave all the quality input they can get. The upgraded DAC is identical in appearance and function now with the highest audio performance that Bryston is capable of creating.

The upgrade most definitely will void your warranty!

Picture is of stock unit before upgrade. Please allow 14 business-days for turnaround on this extensive service once your DAC has been received as custom components are specifically fabricated for this particular upgrade and installed components are thoroughly tested and burned-in. Only de-rated industrial-quality components are used in this upgrade to ensure indefinite performance. Please pack your DAC carefully and send it to us fully insured. Please forward the tracking number to us once it has shipped. Free return shipping of your DAC back to you!

Almost any audio or music device can be upgraded, please feel free to make suggestions for future upgrades. If you have a near and dear piece of equipment that you feel isn't quite performing as well as it might please consider sending it in for evaluation.

Thank you.

*This listing is for a custom service only, no physical product is for sale nor is there any affiliation with any manufacturer expressed or implied.*

[James Tanner]

This sounds fishy, but intriguing.  Another claim for mod improvement.  Sharing in case you want to know of it, James.

"Bryston BDA 1 / 2 DAC *Audiophile Upgrade Service for YOUR DAC*"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=171385019404


The info from the listing for permanence here:


*Audiophile Upgrade Service for YOUR DAC*

Bryston BDA 1 / 2 DAC

This exclusive custom upgrade eliminates the stock restrained sound from your Bryston BDA 1 / 2 DAC unleashing an absolute rock-solid powerhouse of a DAC giving you a much fuller, tuneful, and accurate presentation with more depth, clarity, detail, nuance to every note and sound while authoritatively conveying the essential timbre and soul of the recording simultaneously with a lush, expansive and seductive ambience whether dry or wet compelling a high degree of emotional involvement. This upgrade is a dramatic step up in terms of dynamics, presence, weight and separation; bass is deep, taut and, palpable, midrange tones are throaty, present and chewy and the high end is as clear as crystal while being as smooth as silk, all together in perfect harmonious balance. Imaging and soundstage are as correct as the recording and the concrete phantom center will haunt you for days. A must if you prefer the absolute convenience of a digital source but prefer the truest reference audiophile quality available from Bryston. The stock Bryston BDA 1 / 2 simply pales in comparison to the upgraded version with the stock unit simply incapable of fulfilling high expectations in a satisfactory manner due in part to it's otherwise almost nonexistent power reserve severely limiting sound quality. Now, after the upgrade the DAC is much better suited to the task with, amongst other things, an order of magnitude more properly qualified power reserve [justly befitting the pedigree] more than amply capable of the heavy-lifting required to send a more powerfully balanced signal downstream to your high-end amplifiers that crave all the quality input they can get. The upgraded DAC is identical in appearance and function now with the highest audio performance that Bryston is capable of creating.

The upgrade most definitely will void your warranty!

Picture is of stock unit before upgrade. Please allow 14 business-days for turnaround on this extensive service once your DAC has been received as custom components are specifically fabricated for this particular upgrade and installed components are thoroughly tested and burned-in. Only de-rated industrial-quality components are used in this upgrade to ensure indefinite performance. Please pack your DAC carefully and send it to us fully insured. Please forward the tracking number to us once it has shipped. Free return shipping of your DAC back to you!

Almost any audio or music device can be upgraded, please feel free to make suggestions for future upgrades. If you have a near and dear piece of equipment that you feel isn't quite performing as well as it might please consider sending it in for evaluation.

Thank you.

*This listing is for a custom service only, no physical product is for sale nor is there any affiliation with any manufacturer expressed or implied.*

Hi

Yes these guys have been around for a while.

We attempted to get one that was modified for testing but he refused to allow it so I have some concerns. Usually these mods turn out to be problematic as they tend to concentrate on a specific area they deem unworthy without recognizing that it has to be seen as part of the whole. 

James

[Servingthemusic.com]

Hello All:

This is my first post here after lurking around for a while.

I reviewed the BDA-1 DAC, and subsequently purchased the review sample.
http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-accessories/acoustics-eq-room-tuning/bryston-bda-1-dac-review.html

Well, many, many more DACs have come through the system for review, and let me say, the BDA
series STILL never ceases to amaze me. It's, forgive me, analog like, insightful, and beautiful presentation
has been the one to beat. Regardless of source, and associated equipment, its magic comes through.

Considering the price, and what the competition is offering, you can bet I am holding on this unit.

I know DSD functionality has been discussed here, and my attitude is that Bryston will get to it, and when they do,
it will be an engineering triumph with none of the shortcuts I am seeing from other vendors.

Cheers.

[Servingthemusic.com]

Another note, the BDA series IMO competes with DACs upwards of 4 or 5 times the price. 

[WilCox]

How do I get the Bryston drivers installed on a Windows 8 machine?  I get error messages every time I try to install.   Driver installation goes smoothly on a Windows 7 machine, but no luck with Win 8.  Tried installing as admin but that didn't help.  I'm using the latest drivers from the Bryston website.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

[James Tanner]

Windows 8.1 does require some extra steps to install the BDA2 drivers.  This is because it does not allow unsigned drivers to be installed.  You can circumvent this by following the steps in this tutorial:
 
http://revryl.com/2013/08/06/install-unsigned-drivers/
 
Once it's restarted in Disable Driver Signature Enforcement" mode, you can then run the setup program on the USB key, and you should run it as an administrator and in compatibility mode.  This is done by navigating to the 'setup.exe' program on the key, right-clicking on the file, choosing 'Properties', selecting the 'Compatibility' tab, then checking the box next to 'Run this program in Compatibility mode for:' and selecting 'Windows Vista (Service Pack 2)'. Also, check the box near the bottom of the menu, beside 'Run this program as an administrator'.  Click 'OK', then run the setup program.
 
As well, Windows 8.1 will require the latest version of the Bryston USB drivers, which can be found here:
 
ftp://ftp.bryston.com/pub/firmware/bda2/Bryston%20USB%20Drivers%201.61.zip
 

[WilCox]

Thanks, James, for coming to the rescue!  I'm now up and running on Win 8.  Easy as 1-2-3 if you know the trick.  Windows 8 really shouldn't be so cryptic in their error messages.

I recently purchased the BDA-2 to supplement my BHA-1.  I'm streaming high-res files from a QNAP NAS to a Slim Devices Transporter, feeding the Bryston pair, and listening through either Sennheiser HD 800 or Audeze LCD-2 headphones.  Wanted to try streaming directly from a laptop via USB and encountered the Win 8 driver problem.

I'm extremely delighted with the Bryston combo and have sold both of my STAX electrostatic (Omega II) systems.  Great sound, great equipment and outstanding support!