Subsonic's Triple Servo Subs Build

Vince in TX · « **Reply #20 on:** 8 Jun 2021, 04:22 pm »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 8 Jun 2021, 02:19 pm

If you ordered them on the GR website, they are from Killian.

Yes, you are correct. I suspect that is why Killian is e-mailing me regarding a missing piece for one of the amp boxes. Doh!

subsonic1050 · « **Reply #21 on:** 8 Jun 2021, 05:46 pm »

Hi Vince, yes your flat pack will need to have sides and a top/bottom glued on, so you could do it the way you were suggesting! You'll just want to be careful with glue squeeze out to prevent messing your paint job up, and be careful with clamps to avoid damaging your veneer, but you could certainly do it that way. I didn't realize the flat packs from GR were not Jay's for the servo subs.

Vince in TX · « **Reply #22 on:** 8 Jun 2021, 08:11 pm »

Quote from: subsonic1050 on 8 Jun 2021, 05:46 pm

Hi Vince, yes your flat pack will need to have sides and a top/bottom glued on, so you could do it the way you were suggesting! You'll just want to be careful with glue squeeze out to prevent messing your paint job up, and be careful with clamps to avoid damaging your veneer, but you could certainly do it that way. I didn't realize the flat packs from GR were not Jay's for the servo subs.

Noted. Thanks!

subsonic1050 · « **Reply #23 on:** 16 Jun 2021, 10:55 pm »

Update on the build. The first pair are up and running in my theater/listening room. I still have to make the grills, which I will at least get started on today.

I masked off and then painted the stands after veneering. My preferred order after messing with this is to veneer, then paint, then put the finish on the veneer. I was finding that the masking tape was damaging my finish a little. I then installed the press fit inserts for the floor spikes. I don't like press fit hardware, especially in MDF - so I press fit and epoxied them. I also installed some threaded inserts into the top of the stands (also epoxied in place) to allow some bolts to come down through the bottom of the sub cabinet and into the stand.

A quick look at the unfinished stand with the speaker to make sure it looks and fits right. You can see the pocket where the amp will go.

I decided a spacer between the stands and the main cabinet would look nice. I made some 1/4" thick black spacers out of HDPE with a profile to match the cabinets. I buffed them to smooth out and polish the edges. Here is a look at one with the spacer and one without.

Next was to fit the No Res. I cut all my No Res on a bandsaw. I prefer that to the tablesaw for something like foam as there is no chance of binding and the foam getting torn up or pulling your hand into it - plus the bandsaw results in less waste due to the thinner kerf blade. I built a quick jig to hold the No Res perfectly square to the blade while I cut my 45 degree chamfers. I marked the jig with reference marks to align the No Res for the different length cuts.

The completed speakers next to my old Paradigm Defiance X15 subs. All that is left for this pair are the grills. The lighting in my theater/listening room is not meant for taking pictures - so sorry for the poor quality!

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 Jun 2021, 01:44 am »

Those have turned out absolutely incredible!
Im sure they sound ever bit as good as they look!

RonP · « **Reply #25 on:** 17 Jun 2021, 01:36 pm »

Wow! That's incredible looking.

I wish I had these kinda skills.

Tyson · « **Reply #26 on:** 17 Jun 2021, 03:28 pm »

Yeah I wish I had those skills too! Very nice.

subsonic1050 · « **Reply #27 on:** 17 Jun 2021, 09:27 pm »

Thanks gentlemen! Also public thanks to Tyson for helping me with some questions I had on amps - much appreciated!

Basically last update - I have made the speaker grills. I decided to make them from some scrap ash I had - I used a small domino for loose tenon joints. I subtracted about 3/32" from the interior dimensions of the grill opening from the frame dimensions to allow for the thickness of the fabric. Then I used a trick that I saw from someone on this forum (sorry I can't remember who) and routed a 1/8" groove approximately 3/16" deep around the perimeter of the frame to use window screen splines. I added a small roundover on the front of the frame so the fabric doesn't wrap around a hard corner. I painted the frame black so that none of the wood could show through the fabric. Then stretched the fabric tight, installed the fabric and trimmed it with a razor blade.

Answer2No1 · « **Reply #28 on:** 19 Jun 2021, 05:24 am »

@Subsonic1050 - Those are without doubt the finest looking triples I have seen. They look truly top-of-the-line quality and design without looking gaudy. Love the appearance with the black separating the amp box and drivers, and love the easy on the eyes overall look with the grills in place. These would do any room proud as furniture - not to mention mind blowing performance.

Enjoy them and please be sure to follow up with your listening impressions.

Thanks for posting!

Answer2No1

kingdeezie · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 Jun 2021, 12:41 pm »

Not the most original reaction, but dang, these things look excellent. Great work! Enjoy the fruits of your labor!

subsonic1050 · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 Jun 2021, 04:03 pm »

Thanks Answer2No1 and Kingdeezie - the compliments are much appreciated!

I do suppose I should post some listening impressions. Let's not mess about - they are amazing. They are tricky though... these Rhythmik amps are a wonder of engineering, but there are SO MANY SETTINGS on them. My plan was to just leave the amp in more or less the positions that they arrived at in the box and tweak from there. Wrong plan. They sounded absolutely terrible - and I mean horrible. As my first song I chose one that had a reasonable amount of bass, but even at medium volume the drivers were moving to what appeared like their absolute limit (with the volume setting on the amp at around 40%). I knew something wasn't right. I went to the forums and found a post by user Throwback in which he talks about some good settings to start with, and tweak from there. That turned out to be money - immediately they sounded very good. I did make a few tweaks from those settings, but they were indeed a good starting point. In case anyone is having those same issues, that thread is:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154568.0

I do have a calibrated microphone, but I haven't taken the time yet to run a room check. I'm still finishing the 2nd pair of servo subs and I want to get those done. However, I have done a fair bit of AB testing with my Paradigm Defiance X15 subs. During songs with heavy bass the differences are subtle. The servo subs have more tone, more color, and more meat on the bone (that last one was somewhat unexpected for me). The speed of the servos doesn't come into it as much on certain types of music (think rap, even though I don't listen to rap) but there is still an improvement. Where the differences become very black and white are with faster instruments - double bass, drums, etc. The first song that made me go "Holy S%&T" was "I will Remember" by Toto. The percussion in that song just sounded unreal - so fast and tight. By comparison my Paradigm subs sounded like they were playing underwater. Further exploration with songs like "Can't Stop Running" by Ben Ezra and "Kiss in Blue" by Yello yielded similar amazing results.

In short - I love them. Now I can't wait to get my NX-Treme flat packs in!

DigIndig · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 Jun 2021, 04:20 pm »

I echo everyone's sentiments - those are amazing! I'm working on my own set of veneered/painted triples as well, so it's nice to get a few tips from your experience (like veneer before paint, which is how I was proceeding). My progress is glacial compared to yours - I only have a few hours every other weekend or so to work on them., and I'm doing both the triples and my NX-Oticas at the same time. One of these days when I've made a bit more progress, I'll post up some pics. Right now it's just a bunch of MDF panels with strips of veneer on the edges.

subsonic1050 · « **Reply #32 on:** 20 Jun 2021, 11:19 pm »

Thanks DigIndig - if you have any questions along the way with your build let me know. I'll only have done 2 sets of them, but I may be able to help if the need arises. You'll be really happy with them - they sound fantastic!

DigIndig · « **Reply #33 on:** 21 Jun 2021, 02:55 pm »

Thanks, subsonic! One question I do have: what's your rationale behind the veneer - paint - finish veneer sequence? I have been playing with various finishes, and I'm leaning toward a tung oil varnish on my veneer. Was curious if I am best waiting until after painting to put on the finish, or if there's value to putting at least 1-2 coats on first before painting as a safety measure in case there is any overspray. My thinking is that it's better to have to sand off a coat of varnish than to worry about the paint soaking too deep into the veneer. For reference, I'm using an Italian palmwood veneer that is very thirsty. Maybe a coat of sanding sealer first?

subsonic1050 · « **Reply #34 on:** 21 Jun 2021, 05:13 pm »

Good question DigIndig. It was all trial and error. I've done a lot of woodworking, but I've really never done a project which required regular finish AND paint. My first thought was to paint first, then sand off the paint in the areas I didn't want it and then apply the veneer. This turned out to be the worst option for me. The first reason was that sanding latex paint is ridiculous. All it does is gum up the sandpaper, and what I thought would be a very quick sanding job ended up taking much longer (and used a lot more sandpaper) than I had anticipated. The 2nd reason was that all that sanding along with trimming veneer caused a bunch of sawdust to get embedded into the paint. I ended up having to clean up the paint as best I could and spraying AGAIN after veneer anyway. The problem really was the sticky nature of latex paint. Even days after painting it was sticky enough to attract dust. If I were to do this project over again I'd probably try an oil based paint and see if it worked better.

Next I tried veneering and finishing the veneer before masking off the veneer and painting. My idea was that the finish on the veneer would prevent any paint from being absorbed into the veneer. The problem here was that the masking tape actually damaged the finish. I even used the yellow "frog tape" which is specifically designed for delicate surfaces. It actually ripped out a very fine layer of veneer. I had to sand the veneer all over again and then reapply finish to the veneer. The last option, which I thought would be the worst - was to veneer, then paint, then finish the veneer. It turned out that the veneer did not soak up paint in the least. That could be because latex paint is very viscous - different paint may behave differently. I also didn't bother sanding the veneer before paint, as I knew I'd have to sand again afterwards anyway. I still got a little bit of dust in the latex while sanding the veneer, but it was manageable.

All in all, that order (veneer, then paint, then finish the veneer) turned out to work the best for me. If I were to try again with an oil based paint you may find a different order works best. Also, if you finish your veneer with a film finish (conversion varnish, lacquer, polyurethane, etc.) then you may not have the issue with the tape damaging the finish when masking - but it sounds like you plan to use an oil finish as I did.

Vince in TX · « **Reply #35 on:** 21 Jun 2021, 05:57 pm »

Quote from: subsonic1050 on 21 Jun 2021, 05:13 pm

.... The first reason was that sanding latex paint is ridiculous. All it does is gum up the sandpaper, and what I thought would be a very quick sanding job ended up taking much longer (and used a lot more sandpaper) than I had anticipated.

....

I literally JUST experienced this phenomenon over the weekend. Not only did it gum my sandpaper, it picked up lumps of paint and spread those gums around. I had to take a 100 grit wallboard sandpaper (mesh holes) and sand off the lumps to start over. Fortunately I only painted the underside of the base before encountering this. I'll pick up a different primer paint to finish the inner cabinets on my build.

subsonic1050 · « **Reply #36 on:** 21 Jun 2021, 06:24 pm »

Quote from: Vince in TX on 21 Jun 2021, 05:57 pm

I literally JUST experienced this phenomenon over the weekend. Not only did it gum my sandpaper, it picked up lumps of paint and spread those gums around. I had to take a 100 grit wallboard sandpaper (mesh holes) and sand off the lumps to start over. Fortunately I only painted the underside of the base before encountering this. I'll pick up a different primer paint to finish the inner cabinets on my build.

Yes, it really is a nightmare isn't it?! I do think the best solution is just to use something other than latex - I was thinking a good oil based paint, but I don't know because I haven't tried it! Oil based paint will take longer to dry, but I think it will be a harder finish that shouldn't attract dust the same way that latex does. If the paint weren't so sticky I don't even know that it would matter in what order you completed these tasks - although finishing the veneer with an oil finish and then using tape to mask it off could still damage the finish on the veneer as was my experience.

AlexH · « **Reply #37 on:** 21 Jun 2021, 09:46 pm »

Hey Subsonic1050:

Before I steal this idea for stands, which I'm going to do anyway, is it OK if do?

Awesome work by the way.

soundofrockets · « **Reply #38 on:** 21 Jun 2021, 09:54 pm »

Great looking subs.

Enjoy them - they are clean and powerful.

subsonic1050 · « **Reply #39 on:** 21 Jun 2021, 10:17 pm »

Quote from: AlexH on 21 Jun 2021, 09:46 pm

Hey Subsonic1050:

Before I steal this idea for stands, which I'm going to do anyway, is it OK if do?

Awesome work by the way.

Haha, thanks for asking "permission". Lol. In any case, yes of course you may! Feel free to ask any questions you may have about them as well.

As a side note - I love your X-Statiks. I have a buddy who is coming over in late July to build a set of X-statiks with me in my shop. All the parts are sitting on my counter right behind me just waiting to be put to use. I'm sure I'll be referring to your build thread when we get to that time!