[lincolnmat]

So I bought the NX-Oticas that Howard Bozeman was selling. A round trip from the Detroit area to Birmingham, AL was lessened by the fact that I got to spend two nights with my daughter in Nashville!

Now that I have the speakers home and after a couple tweaks and replacing an intermittent tweeter, I am absolutely loving the sound.

I had a pair of Carnegie CST-1s as my introduction to Danny's work. it was a very impressive first step. If those speakers could get me out of 30 years of planar speakers I guessed that one of his all out open baffle designs would be exactly what I wanted.



I am not using the REL Subwoofer as it is for video use only. In fact, based on how much clean bass I am getting in my 12x18 room, I'm not sure how much more bass I need. I am getting much more/better bass than I ever had with my Magneplanars or Apogees.

There is only one thing that I find as a minor issue. Height. Not of the speakers, but in stereo image. With the CST-1s the Neo3 tweeter was exactly at ear level. With the NX-Oticas ear level is at the level of the lower M165-NQ driver. Female vocalists seem somewhat taller than in real life.  Thinking about how to make the Neo3 tweeter at ear level, and thinking of the arrangement of the NX-Treme, I came up with this possibility:



I have taken the NX-Treme photo and lopped off the top of the left speaker to simulate the normal NX-Otica and have morphed the right speaker to bring the tweeter to the same height as it was in the CST-1 and moved the lower pair of M-165s to above the upper M-165NQ and filled in the empty space where the lower woofers were. I left the top of the NX-Treme to give an idea how the height of this hybrid version would be between the two speakers.

What do folks think? Have you noticed the issue I am experiencing? What would you think of an NX-Otica that was fully mirror imaged and somewhat taller?

Thoughts for a cold Saturday.

Matt

[Jonathon Janusz]

As is often repeated here when these kind of ideas come up:  The crossover would probably have to be reworked, and in this case a new flatpack would need to be made and tested, but anything's possible.

I see where you're going here, and think it is a worthwhile idea; this reminds me of the general size/baffle height of the x-statik (with 2 sealed woofers below the OB MTM section), and since the NX-Treme already exists (like you mentioned), at least the design idea wouldn't be starting from scratch.  I also smell the beginnings of a NX-series center channel somewhere in there if one were so inclined, maybe?  Last, the lower cavity space of your sketch would make a nice, clean, hidden place to stash the crossover.

Cool idea overall that might be worth chasing after. 

[SoCalWJS]

That would be an awful lot of work.

Alternative: Get a taller listening chair or use a booster seat. 

[Early B.]

Danny designed it that way. It would be interesting to get his perspective on it. I'm sure he'll offer a technical reason.

[AKLegal]

I had this issue with the Super 7s.  I agree with the suggestion of getting a taller seat.  Alternatively you could tilt your speakers forward slightly.  Like this http://www.tonepublications.com/blog/we-visit-yg-acoustics-impressive/.  This fixed things for me since I am not willing to buy another couch at the moment.  I have a thin strip of 3/4 mdf under the rear side of each of my speakers.

[Tyson]

I use small feet at the back of my Super 7's for exactly this reason. 

[lincolnmat]

I wasn't thinking this was trivial, just the musings of someone who is very sensitive to image height. One of the big reasons I never like the big Wilson speakers is because they seem to produce an image that is totally unnatural. I am not saying this is close to that extreme though! I wanted to sure to start by saying how much I am enjoying the speakers!

I know it would need a different flat pack, but since all the driver cutouts have the exact same relative positions as the center 7 drivers in the NX-Treme it might not be a complete redesign, but then I don't know the programming of Jay's equipment.

I think most sofas that I have ever seen have just about the same relative height and a booster seat is out of the question.

I thought about tilting the speaker, but thought it might need too much angle to make the speaker unstable. I just looked and I can lift the rear by over 6" and the speaker doesn't seem to be unstable, so I'll try that.

As to Danny's design and any crossover changes required. I am not trying to second guess Danny. I trust him. Since he designed the NX-Treme as a fully mirrored design, I don't think he is opposed to such a design. Did he consider something like this and reject it for any reason? I'm sure he will say. If he says this is wrong for any reason I would not be offended, just as I hope I am not offending him for making the suggestion. This was just my consideration of a way to lower the tweeter without changing the driver compliment.

Matt

[Jonathon Janusz]

I obviously can't speak for everyone, but history as a guide, don't worry about offending anyone with your line of questions; the folks around here generally just want to help (Danny first and foremost) get you great sound in your room.   

Since messing with your seating is a non-starter, Tyson's suggestion about lifting the back of the speaker a bit might be the quickest, easiest way to solve the problem without having to redesign the speaker. How much it takes to get the tweeter aimed where you need it depends on your listening distance from the baffle, but from experience (I had an earlier design of Danny's that was made with a pretty aggressive backward tilt), a little bit of tilt goes a long way.

Do let us know how it goes when you try out tilting the speaker forward a bit.

[Tyson]

Putting the bass drivers near the floor helps to couple the bass to the floor more easily, it's called boundary re-inforcement.  With a speaker like the NX-Ottica, with only 4 bass drivers and all of them in an OB config, they can use all the help they can get.  With the NX-Treme, Danny uses the brute force method of getting more bass by doubling the # of drivers.  So having half the bass drivers on top is not a concern, just due to the sheer number of them.

[SoCalWJS]

I use small feet at the back of my Super 7's for exactly this reason. 

I had this issue with the Super 7s.  I agree with the suggestion of getting a taller seat.  Alternatively you could tilt your speakers forward slightly.  Like this http://www.tonepublications.com/blog/we-visit-yg-acoustics-impressive/.  This fixed things for me since I am not willing to buy another couch at the moment.  I have a thin strip of 3/4 mdf under the rear side of each of my speakers.

+1

I actually use a block of wood the same width as the base. I should get some dedicated feet at some point. Helped with image height. Occasionally, I do pull out a taller chair for critical listening (and move slightly forward to a borderline "nearfield" position). Can be transformative.

[e_biz80]

With nx-treme’s being so tall and it puts the tweeters higher than most listening chairs like the OP. Why are the xtreme’s also angled back? Is someone able to explain that?

[Early B.]

My opinion probably runs counter to most, but the "tweeter at ear height" thing is a general guideline, not an absolute requirement. If tilting helps, great. Otherwise, don't get OCD about it.

[Jaytor]

I've installed IsoAcoustics Gaia II footers on mine and adjusted the height so that the back is about a half an inch higher than the front. I found that this tilted the front forward enough to get the image the way I like it without affecting the aesthetics. They actually look pretty cool sitting on the footers.

[Jonathon Janusz]

With nx-treme’s being so tall and it puts the tweeters higher than most listening chairs like the OP. Why are the xtreme’s also angled back? Is someone able to explain that?

I'm guessing Danny will reply with the answer at some point when he catches up to this thread, but the three reasons I could think of off the top of my head one might do this would be:

• as a slight time alignment adjustment for the tweeters to the woofers (but that isn't necessary in this design as if I remember correctly the tweeter waveguide was intentionally designed to align the tweeter diaphragm with the woofer voice coils specifically for that)
• to put the listener slightly off-axis from the tweeter to improve the speaker's frequency response at the listening position (with intent based on the design of the crossover)
• (in the case of a tall, narrow, OB speaker in general) maybe as a way to make the speaker more stable standing on the floor, moving the center of gravity of the speaker from the front/baffle to above the center of the base so the speaker doesn't tip over as easily (because an OB doesn't have as much mass in the cabinet as a traditional box speaker to keep it steady if something bumps it and the problem could become notably more problematic as the cabinet gets as tall as the NX-Tremes)

[mkrawcz]

I have found that my NX-Oticas simply do not sound right if the tweeters are ear level. I sit ear level with the bottom mid range driver and that is optimal to my ears.

[lincolnmat]

I have found that my NX-Oticas simply do not sound right if the tweeters are ear level. I sit ear level with the bottom mid range driver and that is optimal to my ears.

That is what I would expect since that is how Danny designed the speaker for optimal balance. I agree the speaker is very well balanced. It just gives images of 6 foot plus tall female singers. 

I am sure the tweeter at ear level would need at least a different resistor value to give better sonic balance.

I did try a two inch wood block behind the rear of the speaker. It mitigated the height a little, but as mentioned above, it made the tweeter level a little more prominent.

Matt

[Early B.]

That is what I would expect since that is how Danny designed the speaker for optimal balance. I agree the speaker is very well balanced. It just gives images of 6 foot plus tall female singers. 

That's precisely what it should sound like. 

Think about it this way -- you're in a small venue and your favorite female singer is on stage, so she's towering above the audience. The main speakers are hanging on the wall or ceiling several feet above your head. At no time during this live performance do you say to yourself, "Geez, this would sound better if the tweeters were at ear level."

 

[lincolnmat]

That's precisely what it should sound like. 

Think about it this way -- you're in a small venue and your favorite female singer is on stage, so she's towering above the audience. The main speakers are hanging on the wall or ceiling several feet above your head. At no time during this live performance do you say to yourself, "Geez, this would sound better if the tweeters were at ear level."

 

After 40 years of listening to music presented as an in room experience, imagining a theater environment under my 7.5' ceiling is completely foreign. I haven't played any classical yet, but since I listen to the Detroit Symphony Orchestra in person from the balcony, hearing the first violins floating in the air above me will take some getting used to.

[VinceT]

So now you are sitting front row at Orchestra Hall 

I have the XLS Encores and I had to get use to the vocal placement at well in the mix. It is quite different then most other speakers, but will say after a while I really enjoy this about them. I am glad to hear this continues with the NX series. The vocals at least with mine, are about-6-7 feet off the going dead in the middle. The wall between the speakers is alive and instruments move about based on how the recording is panned. I like the fact that it seems the vocals are the highlight of the show, placement is slightly above everything else and the vocals just float there in the middle of the mix. Now granted this could have a lot to do with my room etc. I know the Oticas can do what mine does and much much much more!  I found at least with mine placement is crucial. Getting them wider seemed to help and away from reflective bounties as much as possible. I too placed some books under the back end of my speakers to point them down ever so slightly at that seems to help a bit as well push things down.

Hope this helps, congrats on the speakers! Glad to see more GR fans here in the Detroit area.

[lincolnmat]

Hope this helps, congrats on the speakers! Glad to see more GR fans here in the Detroit area.

Where in the Detroit area are you? I'm in Farmington Hills. Maybe after things open up we can get together and compare speaker notes.

Matt